What am I doing wrong?

[florenonite]

I went to the hairdresser on Tuesday and she washed my hair before cutting it. My hair looked really clean until Thursday morning, when it was just starting to look greasy. My little sister even commented "this is the first time I've seen your hair properly clean in ages". Now, I assumed that the reason my hair was cleaner is because my hairdresser used sulphates whereas I tend to use a natural shampoo bar. I liked the bounciness I got from my hair being "properly clean", but there are plenty of benefits to the bar so I figured I'd give up on the bouncy hair for the bar.

However, I don't think it is the shampoo bar anymore; I think it's my technique. Yesterday I clarified (because I'm sure my hairdresser's conditioner has 'cones) and conditioned from the ears down, and this morning my roots have a hint of greasiness on them. It's not because I touched my hair a lot as it dried yesterday; I touched it plenty when I got it cut and it still looked really clean for the first two days. Now I'm starting to think that maybe it is possible for me to have really clean hair from shampoo bars, but the problem is not the product with which I'm washing, but the way I'm washing.

What are your tricks for getting your scalp super-clean?

[Rohele]

I don't know about your stylist, but mine really scrubs my scalp when she washes, and then rinses and does a second wash with a scalp massage. She definitely gets it "squeaky" clean.

I don't do the whole wash rinse repeat method with my hair, but I do make sure I'm gently rubbing/scrubbing my scalp (emphasis on gentle, I find my stylist somewhat too rough) rather than just running my fingers through my hair. I used to wash with no scalp rubbing, but my hair stayed really greasy.

[Fractalsofhair]

With shampoo bars, double sudzing is a good idea!

They aren't as harsh as SLS. Also, massaging your scalp can help.

[florenonite]

I don't know about your stylist, but mine really scrubs my scalp when she washes, and then rinses and does a second wash with a scalp massage. She definitely gets it "squeaky" clean.

I don't do the whole wash rinse repeat method with my hair, but I do make sure I'm gently rubbing/scrubbing my scalp (emphasis on gentle, I find my stylist somewhat too rough) rather than just running my fingers through my hair. I used to wash with no scalp rubbing, but my hair stayed really greasy.

Mine only did one wash, then condition. She did scrub, so I tried that yesterday and it didn't seem to make a difference. Perhaps I wasn't scrubbing enough.


With shampoo bars, double sudzing is a good idea!

They aren't as harsh as SLS. Also, massaging your scalp can help.

I already need to wash at least 2, if not 3 times with shampoo bars, otherwise my hair's greasy by the time it dries.

[Toadstool]

Are you rinsing enough and are you using enough product? That used to be my problem when I was a teenager.

[melrose1985]

Just a thought... maybe your hair likes the sulphates? Maybe you can try cutting the shampoo down a little and using it just on the roots? I only use shampoo on my roots, And i only do my bangs area and the nape (when working out) and so far it's working out well for me. I also use Burts Bees grapefruit shampoo.

Hope you figure it out! And i saw the pictures you posted on the other thread about the long layers and they look great!

[GlassEyes]

Just a thought... maybe your hair likes the sulphates? Maybe you can try cutting the shampoo down a little and using it just on the roots? I only use shampoo on my roots, And i only do my bangs area and the nape (when working out) and so far it's working out well for me. I also use Burts Bees grapefruit shampoo.

Hope you figure it out! And i saw the pictures you posted on the other thread about the long layers and they look great!
This IS a possibility. I know Hypnotica's hair prefers sulfate shampoo, or so she says (looks like it does @_@). Is there a reason you're not using them, like your scalp normally can't handle it, or something? If not, you might give them a try again?

[florenonite]

Are you rinsing enough and are you using enough product? That used to be my problem when I was a teenager.

I might not be rinsing enough; my hair's really thick


Just a thought... maybe your hair likes the sulphates? Maybe you can try cutting the shampoo down a little and using it just on the roots? I only use shampoo on my roots, And i only do my bangs area and the nape (when working out) and so far it's working out well for me. I also use Burts Bees grapefruit shampoo.

Hope you figure it out! And i saw the pictures you posted on the other thread about the long layers and they look great!

Thank you :)

I thought it was the sulphates, but I used a high-sulphate clarifying shampoo yesterday and my hair's starting to get greasy already today. That's what's led me to think it's a problem with the way I'm washing my hair rather than what I'm using to wash it.

[GlassEyes]

OH!

Another thing--I know spidermom used to have trouble getting her roots clean because her hair is thick, so she started diluting her shampoo in a root shooter and using that to get right at the roots. I know some people dilute shampoo bars to use them like traditional shampoo--maybe you could try that?

[motormuffin]

I tried using shampoo bars but they just didn't work for me...I think my water is too hard. I do natural shampoos most of the time and throw in TSAL once a week or so.

[Katze]

Maybe you just need the sulfates occasionally? I do, and find that I also need to wash my length once in a while with them. Since we have similar hair I would guess that yours gets weighed down occasionally too...

[florenonite]

OH!

Another thing--I know spidermom used to have trouble getting her roots clean because her hair is thick, so she started diluting her shampoo in a root shooter and using that to get right at the roots. I know some people dilute shampoo bars to use them like traditional shampoo--maybe you could try that?

That sounds like a good idea. It would take the fun out of using a bar, but if it works then it's worth it. I might as well try it and see what happens.

[ktani]

I do not think that you are doing anything wrong. Shampoo bars are often superfatted http://www.chagrinvalleysoapandcraft.com/suprfat.htm, and even with a vinegar rinse to remove residue you can still have extra oil left in your hair.

[Willow]

Have you thought about just switching to sulfate free liquid shampoo? The bar may just be too moisturizing for you. I also wonder if you are rinsing enough.

Jennifer

[Anje]

Another thought -- could it be that your hairdresser has a different water source than you do? (Are you on a well, or the next town over, etc?) Maybe your hair was cleaner because it was washed in a different place, strange as that may sound.

[manderly]

Well first off, what is your technique. And secondly, which bars are you using?

I know when I was using bars (too lazy to re-order) that I used the parting method I posted several times in the poo bar thread.

rub bar gently over the surface of your hair, all along your hairline (ear to ear on top and nape)
part hair ear to ear (like you're making a half-up) and rub along the part line
part hair front to back down the center and rub gently along the part line

Dip head back into water very quickly, just to wet, not rinse and lather away.


This is what I recommneded to poo bar noobies and people who were having scalp problems.



I also toss in a sulfate poo every now and again. :)

[florenonite]

Another thought -- could it be that your hairdresser has a different water source than you do? (Are you on a well, or the next town over, etc?) Maybe your hair was cleaner because it was washed in a different place, strange as that may sound.

I'd be surprised if it was a different water source; my hairdresser only lives about ten minutes away. However, I suppose that's possible.


Well first off, what is your technique. And secondly, which bars are you using?


I usually take the bar, wet it, and rub it from my forehead to the nape of my neck all the way across my head twice. Then I rub my hands on the bar and rub that lather onto my head. I leave it to sit for about 30 seconds before rinsing. Like I said, though, I don't think the problem's excluded to the bars; I washed my hair with sulphate-'poo late Thursday evening and it really needs washed already. Normally with the bars, my hair looks good the first day, and then the second to third/fourth days it still looks decent.

I'm just using a bar I got off a British website, but not one that's supposed to be overly moisturising.

[Lamb]

I can only get my scalp clean bending over the bathtub, I never could figure out how to properly wash my hair standing upright in the shower. Perhaps you could try bending over, or washing your hair under a faucet?

[Periwinkle]

RE the water source - do you have hard water? Your hairdresser could have a filter or softener installed, which could make a difference if you don't.

[spidermom]

OH!

Another thing--I know spidermom used to have trouble getting her roots clean because her hair is thick, so she started diluting her shampoo in a root shooter and using that to get right at the roots. I know some people dilute shampoo bars to use them like traditional shampoo--maybe you could try that?

Thank you GlassEyes. Yes, that's true. Putting my shampoo into about half a cup of warm water in a squirt bottle, shaking, and then squirting the solution all over my scalp area works a lot better. I then run my fingers from forehead to nape over my scalp a number of times to make sure all my head is washed.

[ChloeDharma]

Could it be that using the sulphate 'poo stripped your scalp too much? Sometimes as a reaction your scalp/skin increases sebum production to counter the over stripping.
One thing you could try is using an essential oil like ylang ylang in your conditioner, this acts as a sebum balancer.

[florenonite]

I can only get my scalp clean bending over the bathtub, I never could figure out how to properly wash my hair standing upright in the shower. Perhaps you could try bending over, or washing your hair under a faucet?

I could try, though I could never seem to wash my fringe in the sink when I had one, or even in the shower unless I washed my whole head (one of the reasons I decided to grow it out; I wasn't washing my entire head every 1-2 days).


RE the water source - do you have hard water? Your hairdresser could have a filter or softener installed, which could make a difference if you don't.

Yeah, we have really hard water. We have a water softener, but I don't know if that goes to the shower water or just the dishwasher/washing machine, etc.

I should see what my hair's like when I get back to uni, because Scotland's water is soft almost to a fault, so it might make a difference.

[florenonite]

Could it be that using the sulphate 'poo stripped your scalp too much? Sometimes as a reaction your scalp/skin increases sebum production to counter the over stripping.
One thing you could try is using an essential oil like ylang ylang in your conditioner, this acts as a sebum balancer.

That's possible, I know my scalp can be really sensitive and awkward like that.

[maxzeen]

hmm..well when i wash my hair i usually shampoo my scalp twice. the first time to try and suds it up, then the second time i massage my head with the shampoo. then rinse and condition. it always makes my scalp feel cleaner

[rhubarbarin]

Have you ever tried turning your head upside down when you are scrubbing? The hair hanging away from your scalp instant of being pasted down by the water against it makes things much easier.

I know a lot of people get tangles from this. I do to - if I run my fingers through my hair when it's hanging upside-down. If I only touch my scalp with my fingertips, it's pretty much okay. And I condition afterwards so any tangles can be gotten out then.

It's the only way I can get my scalp really clean, and I don't have thick hair..

ETA: When your hairdresser washed you she had you tipped back over a sink, right? With the hair hanging away from your head. Same basic idea.

[florenonite]

Have you ever tried turning your head upside down when you are scrubbing? The hair hanging away from your scalp instant of being pasted down by the water against it makes things much easier.

I know a lot of people get tangles from this. I do to - if I run my fingers through my hair when it's hanging upside-down. If I only touch my scalp with my fingertips, it's pretty much okay. And I condition afterwards so any tangles can be gotten out then.

It's the only way I can get my scalp really clean, and I don't have thick hair..

ETA: When your hairdresser washed you she had you tipped back over a sink, right? With the hair hanging away from your head. Same basic idea.

I should try this! You mean applying the shampoo as usual then tipping my head and scrubbing? That sounds like it could work, because it allows me to get to the scalp rather than just superficially cleaning the hair.

[Toadstool]

I can only get my scalp clean bending over the bathtub, I never could figure out how to properly wash my hair standing upright in the shower. Perhaps you could try bending over, or washing your hair under a faucet?


WARNING: My chiropractor told me this is one of the worst things you can ever do for your back. The leaning over the b:(ath washing your hair thing.

[ChloeDharma]

WARNING: My chiropractor told me this is one of the worst things you can ever do for your back. The leaning over the b:(ath washing your hair thing.

I can see the sense in that, my back always aches for ages after i do it, i do find it a good way to wash hair, but generally stick to washing it in the shower stood up because of the pain issue, plus i find rinsing my hair standing up reduces the need to detangle when i dry it, bent over i get alot more snapping when i try to comb it and it takes alot longer.....though i do have fine fragile hair.....coarser haired people might not have such a problem.

[rhubarbarin]

I don't generally do it leaning over the bathtub - I can see why that would be difficult, because you have to hold your upper body out so far past your feet and it could strain your lower back (I don't have any discomfort when I do it though - I think I am used to leaning over the bathtub, I do it all the time washing my three dogs and my delicates!).

I just bend right over while I'm taking a shower. My head is close to my knees.

And florenonite, I apply the shampoo after my head is upside-down. That way it's pretty much applied directly to the scalp, rather than worked through the roots to the scalp.

I think this method is a lot easier on your hair because if you just stick your fingertips up through your hanging hair, straight to your scalp, there is almost no friction on your root hair. Especially with thick hair, when standing upright you are mostly scrubbing your roots on your scalp to try to get both clean. Your canopy especially is getting a ton of friction and the highest concentration of cleansing product.

Also I have found, besides a squeaky-clean scalp, it gives you more body at your roots.

ETA: I want the emphasize that the most important thing for me is to NEVER pull or comb through my hair in any way when my head is upside-down! Awful tangles and breakage will ensue!

[nienna42]

Did the hairdresser blow dry your hair? That's something that always makes my hair look bouncier, and it might take your scalp longer to start getting greasy if it got dried out quickly--less moisture right above the scalp. Sort of like how you sweat less in dry heat than in very humid heat.

[Periwinkle]

When I wash my hair upside-down (which is more often than not) I just kneel down in front of the shower, flip my head over and do it all upside-down. I do find it easier to get to the scalp that way - perhaps it is something worth trying.

[florenonite]

And florenonite, I apply the shampoo after my head is upside-down. That way it's pretty much applied directly to the scalp, rather than worked through the roots to the scalp.


Oh, ok. I don't know how well that would work because with the shampoo bar I have to "comb" the bar from front to back along my head and then massage (which would result in horrendous tangles if I did it bent over). What I did do when I washed my hair earlier today (still waiting for it to dry) was apply the shampoo to my hair and then rubbed the bar between my hands to get a bit of lather on them and used this to clean my scalp when I bent over.


Did the hairdresser blow dry your hair? That's something that always makes my hair look bouncier, and it might take your scalp longer to start getting greasy if it got dried out quickly--less moisture right above the scalp. Sort of like how you sweat less in dry heat than in very humid heat.

Nope, she never blow-dries my hair, because even when I was little I never liked it ;)

[Tangles]

Have you tried mermaid soaks? :eyebrows:

[florenonite]

Have you tried mermaid soaks? :eyebrows:

I don't have a bath, so I imagine they'd be quite difficult :p

[GlassEyes]

Why not try rubbing the bar onto your hands and working up a lather (if you're using CV bars, I know for a fact this works) and follow rhubarbian's instructions then, using the lather on your fingers?

[florenonite]

Why not try rubbing the bar onto your hands and working up a lather (if you're using CV bars, I know for a fact this works) and follow rhubarbian's instructions then, using the lather on your fingers?

I can never seem to get enough lather just by doing that; I rub the bar on my head then between my hands to work up a lather. I don't use CV bars, because it's cheaper to order from a British company, so that might be why.

This morning, though, after rubbing the bar first on my head, then lathering between my hands and doing it like rhubarbarin suggested, my hair still looks very clean, so it looks like that might have been the problem ^.^

[Toadstool]

[quote=rhubarbarin;765248]#
I just bend right over while I'm taking a shower. My head is close to my knees.
/quote]

You are obviously a lot more flexible than me!:)

[rhubarbarin]

[quote=rhubarbarin;765248]#
I just bend right over while I'm taking a shower. My head is close to my knees.
/quote]

You are obviously a lot more flexible than me!:)

I credit yoga! I am naturally very, very stiff (have been since childhood), but with concentrated stretching things have improved a lot!


I can never seem to get enough lather just by doing that; I rub the bar on my head then between my hands to work up a lather. I don't use CV bars, because it's cheaper to order from a British company, so that might be why.

This morning, though, after rubbing the bar first on my head, then lathering between my hands and doing it like rhubarbarin suggested, my hair still looks very clean, so it looks like that might have been the problem ^.^

I'm glad you got a little more cleansing power this way!

[Periwinkle]

The Lush shampoo bars (they're what I've used when I've experimented with shampoo bars) lather as well.