PDA

View Full Version : Hip length & beyond, ?condition



spidermom
September 10th, 2009, 03:05 PM
Maybe I'm chasing the impossible dream. Lately my ends are dry, cling to each other like Velcro, and have lots of split ends. I've been S&Ding too much - hours - and it doesn't seem to be getting better. Every time I snip away one split, two more develop (it seems). I've also been doing some deep treatments and oiling, which makes my hair feel better but not really behave any better. Since the splits aren't on the longest of my hairs but scattered throughout the length, a small trim isn't going to do much good. I would have to cut back a good 6 inches to make a major difference. I've done this several times during my growth journey already. I maintained at hip length for nearly an entire year because of this problem. Now here I am again. Those of you with hip length and longer, is this something that I must learn to live with? Or would another cut followed by even more careful handling (not even the occasional blow-dry on cool) give me what I want - relatively damage-free, silky hair from scalp to tips?

DragonLady
September 10th, 2009, 03:22 PM
Are you using catnip? I'm a few inches beyond hip, and I swear the catnip really does wonders. I'm not, and probably will never be, split-free. But I don't have the hundreds of them that I used to.

kdaniels8811
September 10th, 2009, 03:25 PM
I would suggest soaking the length in catnip tea, also. It takes a few tries but is the ONLY thing I have found that prevents my hair from splitting and breaking off. I know you tried it once, maybe try it again? If you have any questions at all, let me know. Your hair is lovely, I hate to hear of it suddenly getting so contrary!

Nightshade
September 10th, 2009, 03:25 PM
It is possible :) While my ends aren't as nice as the top, now that the last of the dye-damage is gone it's all soft and nice. Yeah, it's a bit grabbier from general wear and tear, but nothing like valcro. Very soft and shiny.

I second catnip and other herbal rinses, they really are great :) Chamomile and hibiscus are other good options.

SurprisingWoman
September 10th, 2009, 03:34 PM
I went to CO with a friend last October and when I asked her if my ends were thin (after my DH assuring me they were fine) she leveled with me and told me that they were a little scraggly. She was right, I think I knew it or I wouldn't have been asking.

I have been more careful with it since that trim but it is thinner on the ends. I don't do any heat styling at all. I stink at updo's so I don't fuss with it a lot. I put it up with a chopstick most times. I can't braid so I don't play with it a lot. I don't know if that has anything to do with it but I don't really have splits. When I spent more time on my hair and did the oilings and SMT's and deep treatments my ends were hard and felt awful.

Have you tried just leaving it alone for a while to see if it is snarky and just wants to be left alone. It works for me.

So sorry you aren't happy with your hair, it looks really beautiful!

Presto
September 10th, 2009, 03:58 PM
I know it sounds counterintuitive, but sometimes I have seen other posters with the horrible ends problem see some relief with clarifying.
Sometimes I have too much buildup, and I don't use any cones, but a good washing helps.

Mine is not as long as yours. And you may have already clarified.
Hope you find a solution! :)

Longlocks3
September 10th, 2009, 04:17 PM
Oh no, don't cut! You're my inspirational everyday washer, like me!

I seem to remember that you have switched from cones to no cones recently? Maybe some clarifying is in order.

Also, don't you CWC? I find that using any shampoo too much gives me velcro ends. That's why I'm CO 6/7 days. I'd look at other factors like what's in the shampoo and things of that nature.

You have such pretty hair.

frodolaughs
September 10th, 2009, 05:11 PM
Sorry--I don't have any solutions. Like you I get splits which happen not just in my longest hairs but also in the ones which are many inches shorter, so there is no good way to fix the problem with a trim. I've got a lot of splits right now too and spent an hour this morning doing S&D. I'm going to *try* to ignore my ends for now. If you find any magical solutions please let me know.

maskedrose
September 10th, 2009, 05:19 PM
Thats one of the reasons why I'm stopping at hip. I know I could probably go longer, but my hair is split-prone anyway, even at BSL. I'd rather have healthy hair that I'm happy with then super long hair that bugs the crap out of me. I'm a bit obsessive about S&D, I hate crunchy ends AND I like to wear it down about 50% of the time. So hip length it is for me :)

KarpatiiSiv
September 10th, 2009, 05:32 PM
I'd also suggest giving catnip another try. I was having a very similar problem with my ends when I joined LHC and the catnip has definitely improved this a lot. I don't use any conditioner or oil now and my ends are no longer dry or as split.

spidermom
September 10th, 2009, 05:46 PM
I did clarify. Twice.
Catnip tea? I can try that. I will try that.

I've decided to stop the obsessive S&D, keep hair up, shampoo only once per week (CO and rinse otherwise), and get a trim in October (3 months since last trim). A trim every 3 months has worked to keep ends in reasonable condition in the past.

I think it may be worth keeping the ends dry when I rinse my scalp. Has anybody tried this and seen a difference?

little_acorn
September 10th, 2009, 05:58 PM
No advice to offer - but I just wanted to say I love your hair and I hope that the offered advice sorts stuff out for you {{hugs}}

Shorty89
September 10th, 2009, 06:03 PM
I vaguely remember having a rough time at some length around hip where my ends were crap. They're getting like that again now a bit after classic. I'm not sure why. Maybe they rub on themselves more in updos or something. :shrug:

redwoman
September 10th, 2009, 06:17 PM
I don't have any solutions for you. I just wanted to say your hair is beautiful and there must be something besides cutting that will work for you. :blossom::flower:

AmandaPanda
September 10th, 2009, 06:17 PM
I think it may be worth keeping the ends dry when I rinse my scalp. Has anybody tried this and seen a difference?


My hair was awful for a couple of months. The middle & ends would either feel really grungy or dry. Nothing seemed to help until I got my father to replace the whole house water filter and my hair is back to 100%

I wash my scalp almost every day. When I do, I still let the ends get wet. I haven't figured out a way to keep the ends dry because the water and shampoo seem to travel down and get absorbed anyway

heidihug
September 10th, 2009, 06:30 PM
My ends are rather velcro-y. I've accepted that I will never be damage-free, since I have been coloring for years, and don't intend to stop. Mini-trims every six months seem to help. Hope the catnip works for you, I've never tried it. I might someday, if I get past the laziness factor.

EdG
September 10th, 2009, 06:36 PM
I think the split ends may be due to genetics. I don't get split ends, even on my longest strands. :)

I do get velcro ends. I can get velcro ends pretty high up due to my taper.
Ed

Cinnamon Hair
September 10th, 2009, 06:39 PM
First of all, I hate S&D. Like you said, it would be almost impossible to snip all the splits and you'd probably go blind or crosseyed in the process :cool: My ends are almost as soft as the rest of my length. On a typical day they're definitely not velcro-ey, but I do know the feeling. I'm not sure what the key is, but I follow the CO routine, wear damp updos, and deep condition weekly. Certainly those things don't hurt.

ETA: Sometimes the solution for me when my hair gets tangly is to try cone products. I swear by L'Oreal Mega Moisture. When my hair is unhappy that can make things right again :inlove: I switch between being cone free and using cones. Usually a week of good coney conditioner is enough before I go back to cone free for a month.

lirael
September 10th, 2009, 06:45 PM
It is really hard to keep it from splitting beyond hip because it gets stuck on EVERYTHING. The best advice I have is to keep it up as much as possible and just wait until it gets a few inches beyond the length you want so you can trim it back. I haven't tried any catnip yet, but I do think coconut oil makes mine feel softer while I'm waiting for it to grow out.

Tangles
September 10th, 2009, 07:31 PM
How about going back to low-cone products? Sometimes it really is all about changing shampoos and conditioners.

Washing in lukewarm vs. hot water?

I agree go no tolerance on the hair dryer.

Even if you just end up maintaining at hip for awhile, that's still REALLY long. Most people could never keep hip length hair looking half as nice as yours.

adiapalic
September 10th, 2009, 07:37 PM
I can't really add much to the suggestions everyone else has already given--but I do wish you good blessings in solving the problem. :flower:

Philomela
September 10th, 2009, 09:22 PM
This may sound counterintuitive or even against the mainstream LHC view, but giving up oiling (no matter what type of oil that may involve) has helped me somewhat. I've found that oil traps dust particles that, in turn, are (for me, at least!) the leading cause of breakage, split ends, tangles, and (if the oil is left on for more than 2 days) brittle hair. Parting with the whole ritual of oiling my hair (done lightly after washing or more healivy as a deep treatment before washing) elicited some guilt feelings at first, but has turned out to be a wise decision in the long run.

Melisande
September 11th, 2009, 12:09 AM
For me, a number of things work.

Post-wash: Fox' sheabutter on the ends, or monoi. A tiny scrape, and I feel the ends are less velcro-ey.

Pre-wash: deep treatments, kept in a sandwich bag so the mixture doesn't dry but the hair's cuticles open up and suck up the goodies inside (olive oil, honey, rooibos tea in a conditioner base). I leave this on my ends and lengths for at least two hours, then gently wash.

Also good for my hair structure: gentle helping of protein fromt time to time (mister bottle: distilled water, some drops of camelia oil, hydrolyzed wheat protein and ceratin, sprayed on from top to bottom, then bunned).

Not too hot water, highly diluted gentle shampoo, cold rinse, catnip soaks every second wash.

It is a hassle but my ends are in better shape then before. I have some old dye damage that I try to save that way. I had to trim some shabby looking milimeters a week ago but I don't do S&D. I have no splits at the moment.

julya
September 11th, 2009, 12:46 AM
I did clarify. Twice.
Catnip tea? I can try that. I will try that.

I've decided to stop the obsessive S&D, keep hair up, shampoo only once per week (CO and rinse otherwise), and get a trim in October (3 months since last trim). A trim every 3 months has worked to keep ends in reasonable condition in the past.

I think it may be worth keeping the ends dry when I rinse my scalp. Has anybody tried this and seen a difference?

Yes, I do some washes with keeping the length dry, and just using shampoo on my scalp area and I think that it does help. I like to do a full wash once a week or less, but I can do the scalp wash much more often. For a scalp wash, the hair down to about shoulder length gets wet. When the ends start to seem tangly then I will shampoo the whole thing.

I really vary my routine a lot, with some full CO washes, some regular S&C and some scalp washes with just shampoo. The way that I manage the scalp washes is I hold the length wrapped around one of my hands held up high above my head, and use the other to wash. Once I am all rinsed I grab my turbie towel and wrap up my head, but leave the dry length on the outside of the towel. Then I wrap up my dry hair on the outside of the towel, and hold it in place with a buff.

I do think that it helps my hair to not wet the length more than once a week, or less. It keeps my ends from feeling too rough or dry.

vdhendrix
September 11th, 2009, 01:36 AM
i have tailbone hair, and my ends are very prone to dryness and growing slow because of it, but i still have dye damage left from when i dyed my hair darker

Phalaenopsis
September 11th, 2009, 02:44 AM
I'm not at hip length yet, but I've recently had the same problem. An avocadomask (1 ripe avocado with 1 tablespoon of honey) did at least make my velcro ends go away.

I'm also very annoyed by my split ends. I going to buy professional scissors from a hairdresser, so that I can be sure the scissors don't make it worse when I S&D.

Calista
September 11th, 2009, 03:17 AM
Your post could have been written word for word by me, spidermom. I´m reluctant to try catnip, as I have heard it gives a golden/yellow hue, and I´m trying to avoid that. But I might look into it all the same.

I´ll be keeping an eye on this thread for any hints.

JamieLeigh
September 11th, 2009, 09:58 AM
I don't have any helpful advice to give (I trim 1/4" every month, sometimes more if needed, but it's because I like an even hemline and my hair grows very quickly. Not because of yucky-feeling ends or splits). But I'd like to give a :grouphug: and a :flower:, and my well-wishes. It looks like you've got a few options to try out from this thread. Good luck and I hope you find a solution that makes you happy. :)

Melisande
September 11th, 2009, 12:00 PM
Calista, I didn't notice any hue with catnip and I soaked my hair generously in it. It washes out anyway, so after your soak, just wash it with plain water and you should be fine.

Calista
September 11th, 2009, 12:30 PM
That´s good to hear, Melisande. I will definitely look into catnip after my holiday. Wher can I get it in Germany - pet store?

Melisande
September 11th, 2009, 01:01 PM
Our local Freßnapf had only extremely dried-out and crappy catnip. I'm an Ebay junkie and ordered a bag before I start scanning for further petstores in our God-forgotten area ... You don't need much anyway. Too strong and it makes hair dry.

SHELIAANN1969
September 11th, 2009, 01:40 PM
I am watching this thread closely, I have weird feeling ends too, my hair has splits that I either ignore or go nuts about. :D

Regarding the catnip:
Is 7 cups of dried catnip (a little over 5 oz) for right at 7$ including shipping a good deal?

How is the catnip mixed and used?

Thanks!

Irishred
September 11th, 2009, 01:41 PM
Hey SM and others looking for help with dry ends. I am at mid thigh. I go through spells of having dry ends and others of not. I am not completely sure what makes the difference but when I start noticing that my ends are dry, I usually do something to change up my routine.

I change shampoo and conditioner and then make sure to add oil to my length at least once between washings (which is average 2 times a week). I will also wash my ends really well then do a good conditioning or heavy oil treatment before my next wash.

I will go though spells from S&D obsessiveness to split neglect (right now) also. At times I will spend several days snipping those pesky splits every chance I get. After, I usually take the time to do a 1/4 inch or so trim because all that snipping really makes my ends look ratty even though I snip splits as far as half way up (hey that is a clint black song LOL). This can really make a difference on how my ends feel especially when they feel dry.

Another action I do to combat the dry ends is to bun bun bun. I notice when I have been wearing a braid or down a lot my ends will get dry (loose tail). So if I focus on bunning and better yet, spritzing with COspray (water, conditioner, oil and Aloe) then bunning is even better and help my hair recover faster. Not too much to make it WET just damp enough to feel well damp.

Just want to add, I have used (but not regularly) cat nip and chamomile. I prefer the chamomile but I don't know if it has the same effect on helping hair to not split. Sure adds softness though.

Sheliann, When I do it, I make really strong tea using about a cup of boiling water over the equivalent in leaves to make like 2-3 cups of tea (a few table spoons). I let that steep for like 10 min. Remove the leaves (strain through a paper towel if you need to) and pour the tea into a big cup or small pitcher and add 3-4 cups of cool water. I use the tea as an almost final rinse so making it cold adds to it. I use a second pitcher/bowl/cup under as I pour the tea over my head to re-pour several times. I usually do a quick rinse of plain water after the tea. HTH


Anyway, I hope that helps. I did not read all the replies so have probably repeated someone else ... sorry

KarpatiiSiv
September 11th, 2009, 03:11 PM
I am watching this thread closely, I have weird feeling ends too, my hair has splits that I either ignore or go nuts about. :D

Regarding the catnip:
Is 7 cups of dried catnip (a little over 5 oz) for right at 7$ including shipping a good deal?

How is the catnip mixed and used?

Thanks!

Here's a link to the entry in articles for using catnip http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=118
I've been following Ktani guidelines for 4 months now but there are various methods of rinsing or soaking with catnip.:D

myotislucifugus
September 11th, 2009, 03:16 PM
Did you try an SMT, I actually had a similar problem where the bottom 3 inches were dry, clingy, and twistygrossbroken, and I did a bastard SMT, where I mixed a bunch of Aussies 3MM with half a cup of honey, and left in in while I took a long hot bath, and then rinsed out. Hope it helps, either way, I hope the condition nicens out

Naters
September 11th, 2009, 03:29 PM
oh gosh your hair is absolutely gorgeous! When i used to have long hair i would go to my stylist to get trims and i would always ask her why my ends were so dry, and she would always tell me that it was virtually impossible to have super long hair and not have any damage at the ends. So i say just forget about cutting it cause it soo pretty, and if its still bugging you just get a trim.

Themyst
September 11th, 2009, 03:48 PM
My hair has been growing like a weed lately, it's well below my butt now, heading towards mid-thigh. The ends are in great condition, just the occasional split although they are found mostly higher up. I've noticed my hair feeling a bit dryer lately, I'm sure it's the changing of the season causing it. I just received my Africa's Best oil (yay!) and am now trying it out, my ends are well oiled and all wrapped up in my bun.

spidermom
September 11th, 2009, 04:26 PM
Your advice is not wasted on me. I'm still reading and taking mental notes. Right now my hair is coated with olive oil, braided, under a shower cap for a deep treatment. I have some dried catnip from my garden to make tea as a rinse.

truepeacenik
September 11th, 2009, 07:45 PM
Spidermom, are your scissors sharp? I let mine go dull and I might as well have bitten them off.
Also, honey in adry environment will move moisture to the air, from your hair.

I found hip to be a sticky time.
I'm classic now, after a six inch cut a year ago.

spidermom
September 11th, 2009, 08:11 PM
Spidermom, are your scissors sharp? I let mine go dull and I might as well have bitten them off.
Also, honey in adry environment will move moisture to the air, from your hair.

I found hip to be a sticky time.
I'm classic now, after a six inch cut a year ago.

Oh yes; they're sharp.

Themyst
September 11th, 2009, 08:18 PM
Ahh, yes - I have four pairs of scissors around that I grab to S&D with. Not too long ago, I took a snip sample with each and put it under a microscope. My expensive salon scissors failed miserably! It shredded the ends. But, the tiny manicure scissors that came with a cheap little five dollar kit were the best - a nice, neat, straight line cut right across the strand. I was very surprised.

spidermom
September 12th, 2009, 09:44 AM
I might be surprised, too, if I put my cut ends under a microscope (don't have one available). The scissors SEEM sharp to me.

justme
September 12th, 2009, 01:31 PM
I used to have lots of splits, but they've mostly disappeared in the past couple years. Here are the things that I changed.

- I started using a leave-in every wash (I usually use Phyto 7 or 9, but sometimes mix it with several different things like oils, my regular conditioner, and other leave-ins). I put this in my hair in the shower and do a very quick rinse to get it to all of my hair.

- I slept with my hair in a silk sleeping cap for three years which pretty much stopped nighttime damage. (Unfortunately I'm not using that anymore because it was giving me earaches and I think I'm getting damage again.)

- I didn't oil my hair except the night before washing. This is helpful if you live in a place that has dust or other things that would stick to oil and tangle your hair. Korea was that way for me and so I stopped oiling.

- I wore my hair up outside of my home all but a handful of times for those three years. I did, however, wear it down a lot at home. I don't know if this is related.

One thing that's always helped me is to not mess with my hair until it's dry. If I try to comb or do anything with my hair while still damp from showering/washing, I get damage. It doesn't matter how careful I try to be, I get stretched out hairs, knots, splits, etc.


I think it may be worth keeping the ends dry when I rinse my scalp. Has anybody tried this and seen a difference?

I've actually found the opposite, but I can't scalp wash - it causes tangles, flakes, etc. I do usually put some conditioner on the ends before shampooing and often hold the ends out of the water during the first rinsing until there is only a little shampoo left in the hair, then I let them down. Also, my ends behave themselves much better if I wet them down every night to give them moisture. I'm too lazy to do this consistently, but it works wonders.

Hope some of this helps!

nicolezoie
September 12th, 2009, 02:21 PM
Hip was where I needed to start changing my technique on detangling, and that seemed to help me out more than anything. I don't know what your pattern is, but when I detangle starting from the back I only have to make a couple sweeps through to completely detangle. Even at my ridiculous length (so long as it's been in an updo beforehand ;)). When I detangled starting around my face, all the hair in front got over-manipulated and broke and got brittle/damaged REALLY easily, but changing it up to make the first couple comb/brushstrokes in back made a HUGE difference. By the time I reached the front parts, they were all already detangled and mainly just needed a little grooming.

spidermom
September 12th, 2009, 06:19 PM
Hip was where I needed to start changing my technique on detangling, and that seemed to help me out more than anything. I don't know what your pattern is, but when I detangle starting from the back I only have to make a couple sweeps through to completely detangle. Even at my ridiculous length (so long as it's been in an updo beforehand ;)). When I detangled starting around my face, all the hair in front got over-manipulated and broke and got brittle/damaged REALLY easily, but changing it up to make the first couple comb/brushstrokes in back made a HUGE difference. By the time I reached the front parts, they were all already detangled and mainly just needed a little grooming.

What a good idea; didn't think of that. Justme, I'm going to try only oiling just before a wash because I have the dust and lint problem here.

Anje
September 12th, 2009, 10:47 PM
Mine's about the same length as yours in your sig pic, and my ends feel pretty good most of the time. A few splits through the length which I've learned won't reduce much no matter how cross-eyed I make myself, so my S&D sessions are usually limited to whatever's sticking out of my braid. I've been experimenting a bit, but I always just come back to CO with a little oil after the wash (right now a mix of sesame and coconut). I tried a few coney leave-ins, but they seem to make my ends feel dry and not so nice rather quickly.

Personally, I haven't had much luck with catnip. Maybe I'm doing it wrong? It basically feels like I soaked my hair in water after a catnip rinse, nothing stronger or miraculous.


Hip was where I needed to start changing my technique on detangling, and that seemed to help me out more than anything. I don't know what your pattern is, but when I detangle starting from the back I only have to make a couple sweeps through to completely detangle. Even at my ridiculous length (so long as it's been in an updo beforehand ;)). When I detangled starting around my face, all the hair in front got over-manipulated and broke and got brittle/damaged REALLY easily, but changing it up to make the first couple comb/brushstrokes in back made a HUGE difference. By the time I reached the front parts, they were all already detangled and mainly just needed a little grooming.
I'll have to try this. The hairs around my face and ears are definitely shorter and split-prone.

ETA: One product I recently tried and liked is a knock-off of Biolage conditioning balm. (Shique something-or-other from Aldi for something like $3 or $4!) Impressively moisturizing and softening for ends. I just use it like a normal conditioner.