Went to the hairdresser and got wrong advice!!!

[Emme76]

Well, just felt a bit irritated and would like to share with you all :D!!!

I went to the store to look for a good leave-in without cones...well...after standing there and reading the ingredients for a LONG time :doh:, I wasn´t able to find one without cones. So I went to the hairdresser thinking that they should have some, since it is a place they sell a lot of products. I ask the girl about a leave-in without cones...the pickes a few and showes me, I ask again if they have cones in them, telling her I would like a cone free leave in. "Yes, they are cone free - not many leave-ins have cones in them", she tells me.

But I am not so trusting so I ask for some time to think, and start to read the ingredients. NOT ONE, of the products she gave me was cone free. They all had atleast 2 sets of cones in them....:rolleyes:!!!!!

So I left, went home thinking that I will try to create my own leave-in from all the advice I got here! And look for a cone free leave-in another day!!!!

The thing is, I think my hair does ok with cones..but I want to try to go cone free for a few week´to really see the difference.
I was just irritated at the hairdresser, for telling me she knows something she doesn´t have a clue about. I am sure most hairdressers know more about the products than this girl. Maybe I was just unlucky to get advice from someone that didn´t know.

Thank you for lissening to me babble....:)....
/Emme

[Peggy E.]

What's the point in her telling you they don't have cones? She has to know that you most likely will be able to read the ingredients and find that she is just a wee bit mistaken in her recommendation!

When you do something like this, you not only lose this one sale, but any future sales that may well have come her way. If she'd been open and honest about the ingredients, then you could have trusted her and would have returned the next time you were seeking information on products.

Dumb.....

[ChloeDharma]

One thing i decided long ago was never to go by advice in shops or from hairdressers on products. Most don't seem to have a clue....it's likely she didn't know what a cone was and simply was thinking what she thought was a good product. Though bear in mind in alot of salons you get commision on whatever products you sell to a client.

But honestly, it seems to be a situation where you have to learn about ingredients yourself by researching a product you want to try, or asking here where you can rely on there being members who "get it" and can give you advise without the issue of there being any kind of financial gain or job obligation as a factor.

[prosperina]

She may not even have been a hairdresser, probably just the girl at the counter. In the US, the counter /receptionist women are often in beauty school themselves, so they just might not know as much.

But I agree with what others say they often get a commission on what they sell. Most salon products do have cones in them. I saw one that didn't and it was advertised on the front of the bottle as silicone free. I think its better to make your leave ins.

[wolf girl]

I've found that most salons (hair dressers) will say anything just to get you to buy a certain product. I wonder if they get bonuses depending on how much they sell. :confused: Most don't really care what you are looking for or what might work best for your specific hair type and condition. Some high end salons might be different?:shrug:

[lora410]

Why not make your own leave in with cone free condish and distilled water? This is what I have to my kiddos hair and it drinks it right up. I usually put in a bit of almond oil as well.

[lora410]

I've found that most salons (hair dressers) will say anything just to get you to buy a certain product. I wonder if they get bonuses depending on how much they sell. :confused: Most don't really care what you are looking for or what might work best for your specific hair type and condition. Some high end salons might be different?:shrug:

I think they have quotas for sales, and sometimes they are pushed to sell certain products I think:shrug:

[khyricat]

interestingly enough a friend was told to go cone and SLS free by a haridresser in a salon.. of course the same person who told her this told her that she should wear her hair down- wearing it up in a bun was causing breakage..

Amie

[Anje]

I don't understand why the hairdresser would do that, unless she honestly didn't know what she was talking about. It's bad for business to do the opposite of what the customer wants, after all.

You looking for leave-in suggestions? Some of the favorites, besides straight oils, are straight 100% aloe gel, Kimberlily's Defrizz Spray, HALO rinses, and small quantities of your regular conditioner.

[Katze]

I really like Goth Rosary as a leave-in. Yes, shipping is expensive from the USA, but AntiSally will write 'present' on the box so it gets through customs, and she takes PayPal. Mostly, I use her 'Nothingness' - unscented - as a leave in.

Looking for 'cone free conditioners outside a health food/natural products store is HARD. Even our local chemists' didn't have anything natural AND 'cone free for my hair, and they sell lots of Weleda and Dr Hauschka, and are quite well informed...

IF you truly think 'cone free is better, it's better to stick with those brands. Do you have Urtekram, or Lavera, or Logona there? They are all 'cone free, and Lavera's deep conditioner is still my favorite, even though I do now use 'cones (Dove).

By the way my decision to go back to 'cones was influenced by Amoretti, whose hair is very similar to mine except it is longer, thicker, and prettier, and I figure, if Dove gives HER that kind of hair, maybe it isn't so bad for mine. But to each her own, and going 'cone free seems to be a step most people here try, and some happily stick with.

good luck, hope you find something that works for you.

Katze

[Alaskanheart]

I was just irritated at the hairdresser, for telling me she knows something she doesn´t have a clue about. I am sure most hairdressers know more about the products than this girl. Maybe I was just unlucky to get advice from someone that didn´t know.

Thank you for lissening to me babble....:)....
/Emme

Haha, I doubt it!I dont think most stylists know anything about the ingredients in their products.She probably didnt even know what a cone was and was just BSing you to make a sell.

[akurah]

There ARE two preservatives that many people mistake for a cone, fwiw. I can't recall the name of it off the top of my head, but it's not entirely out of the realm of possibility that she did give you at least one cone-free product that contained those preservatives, and you mistook the preservative for a silicone.

[Ohio Sky]

I dont know that the average hairdresser would know what you were talking about if you mention "cones." Theyre usually trained to know how to get a certain color or haircut, and many of them (IME, at least) dont really know that much about what they put in their hair, or anyone elses either.

Anyways, on the subject of cone free leave in: Like someone earlier mentioned, GothRosary condish makes a great leave in. I put a little in my mister bottle with water and a touch of AVG. It works great. Helps with tangles, make my hair soft and shiny, etc.
I recommend all their products, but if you dont want to pay for shipping, try using any cone free condish you can find at the store there in the same way. I have also used VO5 vanilla mint tea as a leave in and it also works good. I seem to remember someone saying that the condishes that are cone free in the US arent always cone free overseas, so check just to be sure, but I would imagine you could find at least one.

Of course, many people prefer just oiling over leave ins as it has a lot of the same benefits. You may want to try this for a week also if you have an oil that your hair loves. :)

[Alaskanheart]

There ARE two preservatives that many people mistake for a cone, fwiw. I can't recall the name of it off the top of my head, but it's not entirely out of the realm of possibility that she did give you at least one cone-free product that contained those preservatives, and you mistook the preservative for a silicone.

METHYLCHLOROISOTHIAZOLINONE, METHYLISOTHIAZOLINONE, these are the presevatives you are talking about Akurah?I made this mistake at first with a brand that actually has no cones,and didnt use it because of these preservatives, until I researched and found out they werent cones, by the way Ojon Tawaka has no cones, but some of their other poos/cond. do.

[Euphony]

Did you say 'cones' or silicones? She may not have known what you were talking about had you said 'cones. But hopefully (but probably not) would know what silicones are and could help you from there...

[Isilme]

as Katze said you have some natural brands here in sweden. Like Urtekram, I really liked their aloe conditioner until they put protein in it. But if your hair likes protein, try that one, it's very light an smells citrusy (but keep it in the fridge because it can go rancid due to the lack of preservatives) The alos have a rose one I think, but I haven't tried it. If you have a Granit store near you go and find some of their conditioner, also cone free. Also, Tigi bedhead moisture maniac is cone free (but has proteins) Try and see if Weleda has some conditioner, I have read somewhere that excelen has conditioners too.
I have a really old bottle of leave in, directed to curly people but it works with my wavy hair too, I don't know if you can still find it, it's called ISO bouncy créme, curl texturizer. White bottle with dark blue pump.
Rapsodine is also a cone free conditioner made of swedish rapeseed oil (haven't tried it yet)
Don't go with JASON products even though they sell their products as "natural" they are loaded with cones. At least the ones you can find here.
I'll come back if I can think of more products.

[misspriss]

I would guess she probably had no idea what you were talking about, but she should have said something or asked what you meant instead of just telling you what you wanted to hear. But, working in retail myself, it is hard to know all the products. I know it's a salon, which provides services not goods, but the retail part is still a retail store and people still don't always know all their products.

[wishfulthinking]

Haha, I doubt it!I dont think most stylists know anything about the ingredients in their products.She probably didnt even know what a cone was and was just BSing you to make a sell.

I have noticed that several of the hair stylists that I have gone to have no clue what a cone is. I am wondering if they are taught about hair products ingredients in school or not.

I had a wonderful stylist when I lived up north who knew all about hair ingredients so I know that some stylists are very knowledgeable (didn't want to be too down on hair stylists since I have encountered some good ones).

[Alaskanheart]

I have noticed that several of the hair stylists that I have gone to have no clue what a cone is. I am wondering if they are taught about hair products ingredients in school or not.

I had a wonderful stylist when I lived up north who knew all about hair ingredients so I know that some stylists are very knowledgeable (didn't want to be too down on hair stylists since I have encountered some good ones).

I dont think they are taught all that in most beauty schools, maybe some of the Hoiti Touti schools. I think a good stylist though will educate themselves on the ingrediants in products.I have met some good ones too, but for some reason they all seem to move away.

[wishfulthinking]

I think a good stylist though will educate themselves on the ingrediants in products.I have met some good ones too, but for some reason they all seem to move away.

Isn't that the truth?!

[misspriss]

LOL I need a good stylist...in about 8 months. I don't plan to cut my hair again til December.

[heidi w.]

Sadly, most dressers are not aware of ingredients in products. There are sooooo many products coming out, pretty much daily, that it's hard to keep up. Kinda like music videos, youtube and computers.

To the best of my knowledge, dressers don't receive much training regarding products in their initial licensing. While they do have requirements for upkeep of education to retain their license every so many years, per state, this means they often attend shows and various workshops those shows offer.

This translates to seeing platform work put on by whatever product/vendor. When a platform show is put on, they show how to USE the product to create styles, what it's for, but no information about the ingredients is imparted, except, maybe, if it concerns hair loss/thinning products.

So a platform show is all about this product is for hold; this product is for shine booster; this product is for washing; (eta) this product is for flatironing, or curling or setting; or for color; or for perm. These are the products in our line. They all have cones.

Then when the platform show is over, often the models walk out into the audience so people can see close up, and then you start buying product, or tools.

heidi w.

[heidi w.]

LOL I need a good stylist...in about 8 months. I don't plan to cut my hair again til December.

Start looking now. Ask a lot of questions. Interview.

heidi w.

[heidi w.]

I have noticed that several of the hair stylists that I have gone to have no clue what a cone is. I am wondering if they are taught about hair products ingredients in school or not.

I had a wonderful stylist when I lived up north who knew all about hair ingredients so I know that some stylists are very knowledgeable (didn't want to be too down on hair stylists since I have encountered some good ones).


Those who know this have learned on their own, by themselves, or read books such as Naturally Healthy Hair.

heidi w.

[heidi w.]

I've found that most salons (hair dressers) will say anything just to get you to buy a certain product. I wonder if they get bonuses depending on how much they sell. :confused: Most don't really care what you are looking for or what might work best for your specific hair type and condition. Some high end salons might be different?:shrug:

Usually, no, no bonuses based on volume of sales. The receptionist desk, that person may be in training to be a stylist and get a flat fee. Some receptions are licensed and work on hair.

It's more the other way around. All stylists rent space or a chair in a salon and pay the house a % of their services.

More enterprising salons now offer bonuses to those who provide services (hair, nails, facial, spa) if the house as a whole does well, either by quarter or more typically by year (given the following year). But that's pretty unusual still. Just like health insurance is unusual and 401K plans for those who work in these places.

I've even seen where the stylist isn't directly paid. You pay for the service up front, and the salon pays the stylist. The stylist is not independent; in this scenario the stylist is basically an employee.

heidi w.

[heidi w.]

I think they have quotas for sales, and sometimes they are pushed to sell certain products I think:shrug:

That can be true, especially the pushing products part.

Most salons tend to carry a certain range of products that they are known for.

heidi w.

[brok3nwings]

the only place where i asked for cones and they actually new more than me was at kiehl´s store...it seams they have really good formation for working there! And the leave in i have from there is absolutly amazing

[Riot Crrl]

I agree with a bunch of people on this thread. In my experience, stylists (even fully qualified ones) do not know or care about ingredients of any products.

Unless they are products used in chemical services. And then they still don't care, and/or are misinformed. They all seem to think that bleach is the only way to remove dark dye, for example.

Most of them can't even seem to get simple things right, like detangling long or curly hair. I don't know how they made it through beauty school without ever getting a long/curly/both hair model, but being clueless about this is way more common than not, from what I have seen.

We probably scrutinize our own product ingredients way more than stylists do, generally. And until there is some sort of hair revolution, that is the best way.

[PseudoScot]

Not sure if it's been said but there are two common preservatives that end in -one. Not sure if that matters if you're reading in a different language but you might want to check. :)

[Emme76]

Thank you all for lissening...:)

The girl I asked is a hairdresser, cause she left her client to help me. And I was very specific telling her I wanted a silicone free leave-in. I didn´t say cone, cause I figured she might not know what this was.

Thank you all for the tip to make my own leave in. I am trying one now :D - water, cone free conditioner, aloe vera, a few drops of jojobaoil. I boiled the water - hope that is enough (maybe that doesn´t even do anything...lol..)??? Didn´t have anything else at home.
I think my hair likes it :)!!!!!!

Have a GREAT weekend...
/Emme

[willowcandra]

When I was training as a hairdresser I can tell you honestly we were taught very very little about ingredients of products apart from the essential stuff we needed to know to chose the correct colour types or perm lotions. As far as shampoos went we were taught a little about ph levels and mostly why choose greasy/notmal/coloured etc. Most of hairdressing is the technical know how. I have learned far more about hair here.:mad:

"silicone free" is something I never heard of until I came to the boards If you had told me there were plastics in conditioner I would have thought you were crazy.

eta. I don't think it's fare to accuse stylists of not caring and only being out for sales. It's also not nice to bash them for not having thorough scientific knowledge. In uk you go through two years of day release college- you expect that they would teach you all you need to know. It's not the stylists who are falling short but rather the training they are recieving. Like I say I have learned alot about haircare since joining lhc. But most of it is actually pointless when dealing with anyone with hair above shoulder, they can pretty much get away with anything. Many Stylists have difficulties coping with long hair because it's not something they deal with very often, they are stylists not care consultants. They apply then everything they know about caring for hair down to bra strap but wont always know what's best past that.
I think it would be nice to see long hair added as an extra module. (like in some places you can chose to do barbering)
I could fault quite a few of the stylists I worked with but I never once saw someone try to sell someone something they didn't need.

[Riot Crrl]

I don't think it's fare to accuse stylists of not caring and only being out for sales. It's also not nice to bash them for not having thorough scientific knowledge.

Hmm, I think it's totally fair. I never said they were out for sales, I said they were poorly informed, which you corroborated.

If we can spend our spare time to educate ourselves about ingredients, and people whose CAREER this is can't be bothered to do the same, I do not think it is "not nice" to point out that lack. If it is, I guess I'm not nice then.

[Emme76]

Personally I think it is ok if the stylist doesn´t know about it - but then she shoulden´t "pretend" to know. Then she should have been honest and say that I am sorry, I don´t know anything about silicones. In this case she said that they were silicone free and they were not. That is what got me upset!!! If she would have been honest, then that is ok! Maybe she is great at cutting and styling, but then she shoulden´t have pretendend to know something she didn´t. And I asked more than once to make sure of her answer and that she didn´t misunderstand me. Cause misunderstandings happens all the time :rolleyes:....
I am still new to this myself and I woulden´t pretend I know alot about it if I don´t.

/Emme

[pariate]

I experienced something similar a few years ago. I discovered the "cone" thing when I read Curly Girl. I went into Aveda and hunted through all their conditioners. One of the assistants asked me if I needed any help and I told her I was looking for a cone free conditioner. She told me that silicone is the only cone I need to avoid...

I politely explained that things like dimethicone et al are just as bad and they all coat the hair. Gave her a little CG education :wink: The hairdressers I've told about my cone-free habits try to convince me that it's fine to use cones as long as my shampoo is clarifying. They don't get it when I tell them I don't want to use super-strong shampoo every time I clean my hair :rolleyes:

[pariate]

Personally I think it is ok if the stylist doesn´t know about it - but then she shoulden´t "pretend" to know. Then she should have been honest and say that I am sorry, I don´t know anything about silicones.

Hear hear :agree:

[willowcandra]

Hmm, I think it's totally fair. I never said they were out for sales, I said they were poorly informed, which you corroborated.

If we can spend our spare time to educate ourselves about ingredients, and people whose CAREER this is can't be bothered to do the same, I do not think it is "not nice" to point out that lack. If it is, I guess I'm not nice then.

I wasn't aiming my post at any specific person on this thread If I was I would have named names . I was merely responding to a flow of comments. I certainly wasn't responding to you specifically. I have obviousely offended you that was not my intention.
Now I am talking to you... In many career fields there are areas of specialisation. There are specialists for every part of the body and there are seperate specialists for different parts of oral health. In haircare you also have different groups of specialist, trichologists, colourists,stylists...etc No one single hairdresser should be expected to know everything about every aspect of hair and the chemical makeup of all hair products. There are certainly many stylists who learn as much as they can in order to be better stylists.
Also a huge amount of hairdressing is down to manual skill and creativity many stylists are very gifted without having a capacity for cosmetic chemistry.

I feel like I am:horse: here but It's my opinion. Sure there are some poor stylists out there but there are also some excellent ones (who don't know what silicones on conditioners do.)

[willowcandra]

Personally I think it is ok if the stylist doesn´t know about it - but then she shoulden´t "pretend" to know. Then she should have been honest and say that I am sorry, I don´t know anything about silicones. In this case she said that they were silicone free and they were not. That is what got me upset!!! If she would have been honest, then that is ok! Maybe she is great at cutting and styling, but then she shoulden´t have pretendend to know something she didn´t. And I asked more than once to make sure of her answer and that she didn´t misunderstand me. Cause misunderstandings happens all the time :rolleyes:....
I am still new to this myself and I woulden´t pretend I know alot about it if I don´t.

/Emme


That's a very valid point. I totally agree that if she didn't know what you were talking about she should have said so. That was bad judgement on her part.