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View Full Version : Kirin's hair diagnostic tips - I need help diagnosing (with pics)



Sarah4983
August 22nd, 2009, 09:28 AM
Hello forum :)
I need help diagnosing whether my hair needs protein or has too much...

Last night I washed with Herbal Essences "Drama Clean"... TWICE, which isn't a clarifying shampoo but the ingredients list Sodium Laureth Sulfate and Socium Lauryl Sulfate... so I figured it would work just as well as a clarifying shampoo. Here are the ingredients as listed on the bottle:
water, sodium laureth sulfate, sodium lauryl sulfate, cocamiidopropyl betaine, sodium chloride, camellia sinensis leaf extract, fragaria ananassa, (strawberry) fruit juice, citrus aurantium, dulcis (orange) flower extract, fragrance, cocamide mea, sodium benzoate, citric acid, sodium citrate, tetrasodium EDTA, guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride, linoleamidopropyl PG-dimonium chloride phosphate, propylene glycol, methychlorosothazolinone, methylisothazolinone, sodium xylenesulfonate, yellow 10, blue 1 .

Then I went to sleep with damp hair and woke up with less of a mess on my head than I expected. Would me smooshing the hair as I slept give me a different result than just walking around as it dried?

This morning I had my mom diagnose my hair and she decided it was lacking in protein due to the "fragile" feel of it, and when you pinch one strand of hair and run your fingers down it it doesn't feel as smooth as it does after using conditioner...
But I can't decide for sure.

Quick background:
Bleach:
I had highlights put in 2 years ago a few times that at one point were over-bleached because the bleach was left in too long and the hairstylist quickly washed it out and applied a light brown color over the streaks- when I asked if she had left the bleach in too long she said "Uhmmm, no.. uh... I just wanted to uh, add some more dimension with the other color..." Bull dookie. A week later after the brown had been washed out I was left with white streaks. Not cool. I'll be dealing with this damage until I cut the last several inches off.

Demi-perm hair color:
I began to color my hair every 3 or 4 months to cover those highlights with Natural Instincts haircolor. I haven't colored with anything in about 6 months.

Washing routine:
I went from cones for years, to no-cone for a month (June), back to cones for 3 weeks, then my hair looked terrible so I'm trying no-cone again as of last week.



I don't know if you will be able to tell the "feel" of the hair from the pics, but here they are:

Without flash:

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh200/sarah4983/hair.jpg



http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh200/sarah4983/hair1.jpg


http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh200/sarah4983/hair4.jpg





WITH flash:


http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh200/sarah4983/hair2.jpg



http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh200/sarah4983/hair3.jpg


http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh200/sarah4983/hair5.jpg





What do you all think??

Kirin
August 22nd, 2009, 10:35 AM
From the look of your hair, plus how you describe the feel it sounds like your hair needs BOTH. I would suggest a protein treatment (sally's and even Walmart both sell protein packs that work quite well) followed by a deep moisture treatment.

Its actually pretty common to need both, especially if there have been chemical processes involved. Coloring of any sort, even highlights weakens the protein of the hair and dries it out. Protein treatments alone can be drying, that is why I suggest the two step process. Always do protein first, as often a protein treatment (though ultimately beneficial) can make hair coarse feeling and tangly....... then do the moisture, it will not negate the protein treatment at all.

Here's a great tip someone turned me on to, and it works extremely well. If you have a Sally's near you, purchase something called "neutral protein filler". It is a clear liquid in a small bottle. You can add this to a moisture treatment, and get the benefits of a 2in1 treatment in one shot.

By the look, and without being able to feel it, it does even look dry.

Sarah4983
August 22nd, 2009, 10:54 AM
Wow, first reply is from Kirin herself! :-D

Thank you so much for the advice. I am going to head to Sally's in a little bit... I looked online and saw Sally's carries "Nutress Hair Moisturizing Protein Pack for Extremely Damaged Hair"
is this what I should be picking up?

And what do you recommend for a deep moisture treatment? I've read good things about Sally's GVP Conditioning balm.... would that work?

Sarah4983
August 22nd, 2009, 10:57 AM
also - would sleeping on my wet/damp hair last night after clarifying affect the result?
I'm sure my hair would have looked much worse had i just let it air dry without smooshing it all night

heatherdazy
August 22nd, 2009, 12:30 PM
I had highlights put in 2 years ago a few times that at one point were over-bleached because the bleach was left in too long and the hairstylist quickly washed it out and applied a light brown color over the streaks
A toner is almost always applied over highlights... bleach by itself is not a very pretty color, it usually looks too orange or gold unless you're going really light.

Of course, if you had virgin hair at the time and only wanted light brown highlights, the use of bleach was unwarranted, but I'm getting off topic...

Medievalmaniac
August 22nd, 2009, 12:30 PM
No, sleeping on it won't affect the moisture levels. Your hair definitely looks dry - which is totally normal with chemically processed hair. I'd say really good, rich conditioner 2-3 times a week, followed by the protein filler 1-2 times a week, and start an oil regimen, either olive or coconut, 3-4 times a week. You will see a big difference in a short period of time.

Sarah4983
August 22nd, 2009, 12:40 PM
Thank you!

My hair IS very dry... always. It's screaming for moisture...

I went to Sally's and picked up these two things:

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh200/sarah4983/0822091433.jpg
Keratin Protein Rebuilder (2 for $3!:cheese:)...

and

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh200/sarah4983/0822091433a-1.jpg



I'm going to use the protein first.... (Leave in for 10 mins then rinse out) and then the conditioning balm and leave that on for about 10 minutes as well then rinse.

I will update with the result...

JessTheMess
August 22nd, 2009, 12:46 PM
Your hair looks like mine did when I first started. I did a combo protein/moisturizing treatment at first, which helped. I then was doing weekly SMTs and using olive oil on the ends only. Now I use coconut oil (awesome) Henna also has made my hair a world of difference. I used rainbow dark brown a few times. I can actually say that my hair is healthy now despite all of the chemical damage I have done. You can see a history of my hair in my albums for reference :flower:

Ruvie
August 22nd, 2009, 12:47 PM
Good luck! Although I have to say your hair looks nice, even if it is dying for protein and moisture :)

Sarah4983
August 22nd, 2009, 01:10 PM
Jessthemess: not only are we nearly hair twins, but it looks like we both went through the same hair phases! The bleaching, the dark brown hair coloring... hehe if only I would have known then what I know now :)

Ruvie: Thanks for the luck! It was a nice surprise waking up and not having a giant haystack on my head this morning... it wasn't as bad as I expected with no conditioner.


You know- After this clarifying experiment, I've realized that cones do a GREAT job of hiding damage!!

Amraann
August 22nd, 2009, 01:17 PM
Unfortunately cones not only hide it they make it worse!

You may want to also try a good quality leave in conditioning spray. I really like Aveeno.
It makes my hair VERY soft.
I noticed you live in S Florida like I do. I don't know if your near a beach but the salt air will really wreak havoc.
Whenever I am going to be on the beach or near the water I always put either a little coconut oil or shea butter on my ends to protect them.

rogue_psyche
August 22nd, 2009, 07:45 PM
If you think your hair will repeatedly need protein, try Sally's version of Joico K-Pak. At the the price of a few treatments, this product will last you much longer.

GlassEyes
August 22nd, 2009, 08:04 PM
Hah! I've used both of those--the GVP especially is a favorite of mine. It should help!

GlassEyes
August 22nd, 2009, 08:07 PM
Unfortunately cones not only hide it they make it worse!

You may want to also try a good quality leave in conditioning spray. I really like Aveeno.
It makes my hair VERY soft.
I noticed you live in S Florida like I do. I don't know if your near a beach but the salt air will really wreak havoc.
Whenever I am going to be on the beach or near the water I always put either a little coconut oil or shea butter on my ends to protect them.
Ehhhhhhh. That's a little misleading.

Cones don't really make hair worse innately. If you use a sulfate shampoo every so often like they're DESIGNED (usually) to be used with, they're not bad--for some people they are, but different people vary on what products they can and can't use anyway.

The issues with cones are that, yes, they can hide damage--though this isn't always a BAD thing, and that with prolonged use, they can cause dry hair because it'll seal out moisture. However, JUST like oil, sometimes even better, they can seal in moisture as well.

Cones are not the devil. D<

AnnaMarie
August 22nd, 2009, 08:17 PM
I also recommend doing an SMT, my hair is prone to getting really dry and I find doing an SMT once a week makes the world of difference. :)

krissykins
August 22nd, 2009, 10:31 PM
From the look of your hair, plus how you describe the feel it sounds like your hair needs BOTH. I would suggest a protein treatment (sally's and even Walmart both sell protein packs that work quite well) followed by a deep moisture treatment.

Its actually pretty common to need both, especially if there have been chemical processes involved. Coloring of any sort, even highlights weakens the protein of the hair and dries it out. Protein treatments alone can be drying, that is why I suggest the two step process. Always do protein first, as often a protein treatment (though ultimately beneficial) can make hair coarse feeling and tangly....... then do the moisture, it will not negate the protein treatment at all.

Here's a great tip someone turned me on to, and it works extremely well. If you have a Sally's near you, purchase something called "neutral protein filler". It is a clear liquid in a small bottle. You can add this to a moisture treatment, and get the benefits of a 2in1 treatment in one shot.

By the look, and without being able to feel it, it does even look dry.

Is the neutral protein filler this (http://www.sallybeauty.com/Neutral-Protein-Filler/CLRFUL1,default,pd.html) product?

Aeon F.
August 22nd, 2009, 11:37 PM
Aha! Sarah, your hair in the pictures looks EXACTLY like how my hair's been behaving lately... maybe I need protein too!! I usually use V05 extra body (w/ protein) condish to CO with every week and recently I switched off to using no protein condishes and that's when I got all tangly & my hair looks like your pictures ..... apparently, my hair needs protein as much as moisture. (I do SMTs regularity).


and I have the knockoff biolage too- it's great stuff!! :D

Sarah4983
August 23rd, 2009, 08:41 AM
Well, I have mixed feelings about the result of the protein and the conditioning balm. I'm sure this will take a lot of time and patience. :)

My hair definitely feels... different.... It's heavier, yet still has lots of body.... and is not as shiny as I'd like it to be, but I'm sure that will come with more uses of the conditioning balm.

thanks for the replies;

I am pretty sure I'm not going to color anymore (anyone need a box of medium ash brown?) so hopefully I won't need many more protein treatments.

Ooooo SMT- I will look for that again; I still haven't had a chance to try it.

Can I C/O with that conditioning balm or do you think it will be too heavy?

GlassEyes
August 23rd, 2009, 04:09 PM
I dunno--with 1c fine hair? Might be. It's worth a shot though.

I CO with it. Another thing that may cause an issue is clarifying--it's cone-free, and you were using cones, right? Might need to do that before doing a treatment with the balm.

Edit: OH, you went bak to no-cone after clarifying. Nevermind.

Fractalsofhair
August 23rd, 2009, 04:22 PM
I'd personally suggest doing another deep treatment and leaving it in for longer(like a few hours) in the case of the conditioning balm. Then CO it out with your regular conditioner.