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may1em
August 16th, 2009, 02:55 PM
So, I thought it would be a cool idea to have a thread for discussing hairstyles people wear for religious reasons. I don't want this to turn into a debate about the rules themselves, I just want a place where people can ask questions in order to gain better understanding. Kind of a hair trivia thread with a religious bent.

Like, I know that there are many religions where women don't take anything sharp to their hair because uncut hair is a sign of holiness. And other religions where hair is only cut in times of mourning.

I also wonder about the "Pentecostal poof" - a lot of the YouTube videos for Apostolic and Pentecostal hairstyles involve a poofy roll or pompadour in front. Why is this? Is it just because they think it looks good or is there a religious or cultural reason behind it?

So discuss, open-mindedly!

jera
August 16th, 2009, 03:01 PM
So, I thought it would be a cool idea to have a thread for discussing hairstyles people wear for religious reasons. I don't want this to turn into a debate about the rules themselves, I just want a place where people can ask questions in order to gain better understanding. Kind of a hair trivia thread with a religious bent.

Like, I know that there are many religions where women don't take anything sharp to their hair because uncut hair is a sign of holiness. And other religions where hair is only cut in times of mourning.

I also wonder about the "Pentecostal poof" - a lot of the YouTube videos for Apostolic and Pentecostal hairstyles involve a poofy roll or pompadour in front. Why is this? Is it just because they think it looks good or is there a religious or cultural reason behind it?

So discuss, open-mindedly!

I've never heard of a pentacostal pouf. I'd love to see that. :p I know some religions don't allow elaborate braiding because it's supposed to be considered oranamental. Some Christians believe veiling is necessary, but this varies.

Katurday
August 16th, 2009, 03:08 PM
Well, from what I remember from my World Religions class, the Sikhs (women and men) consider hair extremely important, so they don't cut it and cover it up to show it the proper respect and protect it from the elements. (Most of the gentlemen with turbans that are mistakenly considered Muslim or Hindu are actually Sikh)

systemaurora
August 16th, 2009, 03:42 PM
what's a pentecostal poof? I wanna see it!

redcelticcurls
August 16th, 2009, 03:48 PM
what's a pentecostal poof? I wanna see it!

The ones I've seen remind me of prom hair meets Stepford. They vary though.

You can check google images for some examples.

bridgetsgirl
August 16th, 2009, 03:51 PM
My dad took us to a Pentecostal church for a couple years and I don't remember seeing any such thing...but maybe it's something cultural, seeing as this was an Hispanic-focused congregation. It does bring to mind the hairstyle I saw on those women during the "FLDS child-marriage cult" fiasco a while back.

marikamt
August 16th, 2009, 03:57 PM
I also wonder about the "Pentecostal poof" - a lot of the YouTube videos for Apostolic and Pentecostal hairstyles involve a poofy roll or pompadour in front. Why is this? Is it just because they think it looks good or is there a religious or cultural reason behind it?

(above was a quote, not sure why it did not "highlight" as such)

I think what you are referring to is more common in Mormon (very conservative)- I remember seeing it on the women of the Yearning for Zion compound in Texas (where they took the children). They (the women) were on Oprah and actually discussed their hair... they said the length was for religious reasons (scriptural, long hair for women), but the "pouf" was just stylish in their community....

It will be interesting to see what comes up in this thread- can't wait to come back and read it all.

OhioLisa
August 16th, 2009, 03:59 PM
I think I have a pic of my pentecostal poof in one of my albums, in case anyone is wondering. We do not cut our hair, in obedience to 1 Corinthians 11. As far as the poof, it's just more of what's "in style".

LittleOrca
August 16th, 2009, 04:04 PM
Is it more of a similar look to the Gibson Pompadour (http://intimelyfashion.com/hair/gibson2.htm)?

may1em
August 16th, 2009, 04:18 PM
Is it more of a similar look to the Gibson Pompadour (http://intimelyfashion.com/hair/gibson2.htm)?

No, it's the section of hair that could be bangs put up in a roll.

This lady has a YouTube channel with a lot of hairstyles involving the poof. At one point, she has a friend demonstrate something called the "butterfly poof" which seems to be two short coils arranged in the shape of a butterfly - which I might try myself someday. Anyway, it leads me to believe that for her, at least, the poof is a substitute for bangs:
http://www.youtube.com/user/gossgirl2

OhioLisa, ok - so it's just a style thing like any subculture might have. Cool.

I find it really interesting how people of different faiths are able to be stylish even with clothing and hair rules - the only two groups I can think of who actively avoid trying to be fashionable are Plain Christains and Quakers. Like I think I read that in Dubai, women wear abayas with intricate embroidery by the hem.

All sorts of fun tidbits coming! I think I knew that about Sikhs - the reasoning for the turban makes a lot of sense.

Candide
August 16th, 2009, 04:32 PM
I've often had people think that I belong to some sort of unknown religious group because of my long hair. Back when it was hip length and I dressed a bit frumpy, people asked my then-boyfriend about it. It also didn't help that I was taping my feet up to support my arches. (Oh, I should probably mention that on the hurting foot thread...) and that looked a little odd.

Then one summer I was in Spain studying and got a nasty sunburn in the part of my hair, from being dumb and sitting in the top of a double decker tour bus for four hours in the middle of the day. I spent the rest of the trip wearing sparkly scarves over the part in my hair and people thought I was religious then, too.

BlndeInDisguise
August 16th, 2009, 05:29 PM
The only reason I put my hair up the way I do is so that it fits in my covering. :p I don't necessarily wear it that way for any religious belief. You can see a picture in one of my albums in my profile. :)

keight425
August 16th, 2009, 05:51 PM
May1em,

I think this is AWESOME you started this thread!!!

The main reason I started thinking I wanted to grow my hair out was mainly because of several Pentecostal gals I've seen around (I work at a hospital, lots of people to watch!) and specifically a co-worker I had who was Pentecostal and her hair was mid-thigh. She usually wore it up in a crazy-looking bun or a half-up, but ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS did she have to have the Pentecostal poof, which literally added about 4 inches in height, it was incredible.

Here is a good example for all you who are wondering:
http://i892.photobucket.com/albums/ac129/triscuitphoto/pentepoof.jpg

So I don't really want the poof (or that big of one!) but for some reason I was really drawn to how these girls always presented themselves, they are always so cute with what they wear but it is always modest and always skirts/dresses, etc. They always do lots of different styles in their hair and I just really think it looks great!

I think how I even came across THIS site was just by looking for long hair styles, and searching for pentecostal hair-dos since they always have long hair to deal with!

Lastly, I did ask my co-worker why they did what they did and she said that somewhere in the Old Testament it explains that you are supposed to be able to tell the difference between a man or a woman from a long distance, so the long hair and the long skirts made it the way they could tell and that tradition continues today.

OhioLisa
August 16th, 2009, 06:15 PM
Found my pic, for anyone who might be interested:

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k24/ohiolisa06/Styles/pentecostal_poof.jpg

Kat
August 16th, 2009, 06:59 PM
That's what I've always wondered too...like, most pictures I've seen of Hutterites show them with their hair sort of rolled on the sides as it's pulled back, and then it's put into a bun or whatever under the headcovering, and I always wondered if that was mandated (and if so, why), in style, or what. Or, as in the recent Amish thread with the braided bun-like style--is it just commonly found to be the easiest style to wear, or is it required to have your hair that way?

I think the confusion stems from the universality of it. Rarely in "regular" society are certain styles followed by everyone or nearly everyone. Fads come and go, yes, but it's easy to find people who don't follow the fad. Even within subcultures that tend to dress much the same, there are variations--not all goths wear long skirts or corsets or combat boots, not all Ren-Fest folks wear a laced bodice or coin belt, not all teenagers wear jeans or tube tops, etc., and if they did, we would again wonder if there was a requirement.

Same goes for certain styles of coverings in religious groups--why is X covering mandated, like why do the Amish often wear the stiff mesh pleated caps (or the Schartzentruber style with all the tiny pleats at the back or whatever)? Why pleats instead of gathers, why stiff mesh instead of another stiff fabric or soft fabric, etc.? Is it Biblical somewhere, or just the style someone came up with initially and is still used out of tradition and no reason to fix what ain't broken? It's easy to understand some coverings' style, like Muslim coverings: there's a requirement to cover certain parts of the body but how you do it is up to you, but if everyone wore the exact same style of clothing and headcovering (say, salwar kameez and an Al-Amira), we'd think there was a mandate somewhere as to style.

may1em
August 16th, 2009, 09:09 PM
That's what I've always wondered too...like, most pictures I've seen of Hutterites show them with their hair sort of rolled on the sides as it's pulled back, and then it's put into a bun or whatever under the headcovering, and I always wondered if that was mandated (and if so, why), in style, or what. Or, as in the recent Amish thread with the braided bun-like style--is it just commonly found to be the easiest style to wear, or is it required to have your hair that way?

I think the confusion stems from the universality of it. Rarely in "regular" society are certain styles followed by everyone or nearly everyone. Fads come and go, yes, but it's easy to find people who don't follow the fad. Even within subcultures that tend to dress much the same, there are variations--not all goths wear long skirts or corsets or combat boots, not all Ren-Fest folks wear a laced bodice or coin belt, not all teenagers wear jeans or tube tops, etc., and if they did, we would again wonder if there was a requirement.

Same goes for certain styles of coverings in religious groups--why is X covering mandated, like why do the Amish often wear the stiff mesh pleated caps (or the Schartzentruber style with all the tiny pleats at the back or whatever)? Why pleats instead of gathers, why stiff mesh instead of another stiff fabric or soft fabric, etc.? Is it Biblical somewhere, or just the style someone came up with initially and is still used out of tradition and no reason to fix what ain't broken? It's easy to understand some coverings' style, like Muslim coverings: there's a requirement to cover certain parts of the body but how you do it is up to you, but if everyone wore the exact same style of clothing and headcovering (say, salwar kameez and an Al-Amira), we'd think there was a mandate somewhere as to style.

The universality point is a good one - I wondered about the poof because all the videos I saw about Pentecostal or Apostolic hair seemed to have a variation on it. As for the Amish, I looked at some of the links on that thread and there seemed to be a lot of different ways to put it up - the main requirement being that it be flat enough to put the covering over.

BlndeInDisguise, that makes sense about the covering. If you wear one, then your hair needs to fit under it. Duh! Do you usually bun it while it's damp or allow it to dry first?

Candide - I'm so sorry to hear about your scalp burn. That sounds really ouchy (I also have extremely sensitive and burning-prone skin.) Also, I still have and love the sparkly scarves I bought in Spain six years ago. They are my favorites, and work well on my head (I triangle it, wrap like a bandanna, covering my bun, then tie the ends around the bun - for me this is purely decorative) AND on my neck. Do you still love yours?

This is all really interesting! So far as I know, Lutherans don't have any rules about appearance, so my own quest for long hair isn't spiritually driven, though I suppose you could view it as an exercise in patience. I did wear a wide headband to church this morning (the rest of my hair was down, though), and that may have been influenced somewhat by the headcovering thread - I just sort of felt like it, and the urge could have been Spirit-driven, or not. So I dunno.

Candide
August 17th, 2009, 12:26 AM
Candide - I'm so sorry to hear about your scalp burn. That sounds really ouchy (I also have extremely sensitive and burning-prone skin.) Also, I still have and love the sparkly scarves I bought in Spain six years ago. They are my favorites, and work well on my head (I triangle it, wrap like a bandanna, covering my bun, then tie the ends around the bun - for me this is purely decorative) AND on my neck. Do you still love yours?


Thanks! Of course, that burn is loonnng gone-- I was in Spain about the same time you were, I think! I spent a month in Madrid and came home with so many sparkly scarves, and yep, I'm still crazy for them! I have them hung up on the wall on hooks, ready to serve turban duty. I love the triangle wrap, too. The sad thing is, as much as I love wearing the hair long and loose with a triangle on top (peasant style, I guess) it matted my hair more than anything.

Hm...maybe this needs a spinoff scarf-thread. What part of Spain were you in, if I might ask?

ilovelonghair
August 17th, 2009, 12:46 AM
Lastly, I did ask my co-worker why they did what they did and she said that somewhere in the Old Testament it explains that you are supposed to be able to tell the difference between a man or a woman from a long distance, so the long hair and the long skirts made it the way they could tell and that tradition continues today.


Is that the reason for the poof? Because in the bible some men had long hair, so is that the way to distingish between male and female? But men and women look very from a distance anyway.

Hindu women also have long hair for religious reasons and never wear it loose. I can't remember it presisely, but loose hair symbolises anger. I think it refers to a story in the Ramayana where a lady swears not to braid her hair till she has washed her hair in her enemies blood.

naterose5
August 17th, 2009, 01:07 AM
In our church, I tend to see more of poof at the crown of the head (think Bumpits but not so pronounced), sometimes a moderate front poof. For me personally, it makes me feel like my updos are not as "severe" looking. There is no scriptural reason for the poof, just plain old personal preferences.

jera
August 17th, 2009, 01:20 AM
Found my pic, for anyone who might be interested:

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k24/ohiolisa06/Styles/pentecostal_poof.jpg

That's very pretty Lisa. Is the pentacostal pouf a new trend? I used to attend a pentacostal church a few years ago but nobody poufed at that time. :D

Flynn
August 17th, 2009, 02:01 AM
Is that the reason for the poof? Because in the bible some men had long hair, so is that the way to distingish between male and female? But men and women look very from a distance anyway.

Hindu women also have long hair for religious reasons and never wear it loose. I can't remember it presisely, but loose hair symbolises anger. I think it refers to a story in the Ramayana where a lady swears not to braid her hair till she has washed her hair in her enemies blood.


I don't think the "never wearing it loose" is universal. I'm at uni with a lot of Hindu girls/women (Australian universities are pretty popular with Indians and Sri Lankans -- and people from South Asia in general -- it would seem...) and I can think of at least one very traditional lady who often enough wears her hair out, not to mention several less traditional girls/women.

Interestingly, they don't appear to be into updos and buns... *Shrugs*

hennaphile
August 17th, 2009, 05:33 AM
Hindu women also have long hair for religious reasons and never wear it loose. I can't remember it presisely, but loose hair symbolises anger..


In ancient Rome loose hair symbolized uncivilized barbarism, hence the empress had her hair perfectly quaffed and "civilized/Romanized"


So I guess I'm a barbarian :cheese:

BlndeInDisguise
August 17th, 2009, 05:41 AM
BlndeInDisguise, that makes sense about the covering. If you wear one, then your hair needs to fit under it. Duh! Do you usually bun it while it's damp or allow it to dry first?

It depends. Sometimes I let it dry all the way, and sometimes I damp bun it. :)

ilovelonghair
August 17th, 2009, 04:39 PM
In ancient Rome loose hair symbolized uncivilized barbarism, hence the empress had her hair perfectly quaffed and "civilized/Romanized"


So I guess I'm a barbarian :cheese:


Me too :D!

I guess the universal thing of putting hair up or braid it is evolved from just a practical reason into a religious reason.

Deb!
August 17th, 2009, 06:54 PM
Found my pic, for anyone who might be interested:

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k24/ohiolisa06/Styles/pentecostal_poof.jpg

I've been wearing my bangs like this all summer.

This style is flattering and has "saved" me from having bad hair(bangs) days.

I've put the rest of my hair in various updos and have been quite happy with the ease with which the styles can be done.

I don't know if I'm going to cut my bangs come fall, until I decide, I'm going to keep wearing the front of my hair like this.

Shiva
August 17th, 2009, 07:26 PM
And other religions where hair is only cut in times of mourning.

If I recall correctly some Native American cultures did this, as well. I know the Sioux do.

Alun
August 17th, 2009, 09:03 PM
AFAIK I've never seen a Pentecostal woman. I suppose I might have but just don't know about it. The strange part about that is that I used to know a Pentecostal minister, but he was my landlord, and never brought anyone else with him when he came to visit. Oddly enough, HIS hair was at least over his collar, if not exactly long. Just my ten cents.

Ottoline
August 19th, 2009, 03:39 AM
Is it more of a similar look to the Gibson Pompadour (http://intimelyfashion.com/hair/gibson2.htm)?


No no no! Not my beloved GG pompadour (see avatar).

I know all about the pentacostal pouf. Remember a year or so ago when the FBI broke in and took all those children away from that polygamy group? Every one of those gals had the pouf plus french braids.

http://messengerandadvocate.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/flds-women-win.jpg

Love the sunglasses and that red hair!

My understanding is that hair is a woman's one "allowed" vanity by God. So you should keep it long as your beauty and also to show that you love the Lord and are trying to please Him (and husband, too, of course). Plus, as you can see from these ladies above, it's the one thing you can kind of show off if you wear very modest clothing.

Shiva
August 19th, 2009, 04:44 AM
My understanding is that hair is a woman's one "allowed" vanity by God.

In the Dark Ages a woman could be declared a heretic and burned at the stake for cutting her hair.

Maddy25
August 19th, 2009, 06:53 AM
In the Dark Ages a woman could be declared a heretic and burned at the stake for cutting her hair.

:blueeek: wow. That is scary, punishments from back then scare me!

Sheltie_Momma
August 19th, 2009, 07:29 AM
So I don't really want the poof (or that big of one!) but for some reason I was really drawn to how these girls always presented themselves, they are always so cute with what they wear but it is always modest and always skirts/dresses, etc. They always do lots of different styles in their hair and I just really think it looks great!



I have been very drawn lately as well to modest dressing and long hair - I have a new friend who is Pentecostal and also I really enjoy watching shows like 18 Kids and Counting. I'm Methodist, we don't really have any rules on hair or dress that I'm aware of but there is just something very attractive to me about long hair and a skirt, it feels modest, feminine and also neat, pulled together looking. Shrug. I know I'm not expressing this very well but it was nice to see I'm not alone in my admiration.

Deb!
August 19th, 2009, 07:51 AM
I have been very drawn lately as well to modest dressing and long hair - I have a new friend who is Pentecostal and also I really enjoy watching shows like 18 Kids and Counting. I'm Methodist, we don't really have any rules on hair or dress that I'm aware of but there is just something very attractive to me about long hair and a skirt, it feels modest, feminine and also neat, pulled together looking. Shrug. I know I'm not expressing this very well but it was nice to see I'm not alone in my admiration.

I agree wholeheartedly!

There is something very appealing about the way the Duggar women dress!
The perceived comfort level and ease of movement has me wanting to wear loose tops and long skirts on occasion.

Sheltie_Momma
August 19th, 2009, 09:55 AM
I don't think I ever got over wanting to feel like a princess. OK, sorry total thread hijack :)

angelthadiva
August 19th, 2009, 11:09 AM
I'm a long hair who loves to wear skirts and I'm also a Christian.

It is funny to me that some people make assumptions about me based on how I look. I should add that I nearly always wear full face make up and jewelry too (a lot of it). Not like Mr. T., but double pierced ears, rings etc.

The denomination I belong to doesn't have convictions about women who cut their hair...Some do and some don't. It's a personal thing, as well as covering.

I think society has gotten lax in the type of dress that is acceptable...So, not to be a prude, but I think SOME things should be left to the imagination (so to speak). I don't need to know the color or style of panties some choose to wear (whale tails) ;)

I had not heard about the Pentecostal poof before, but I've seen it. I think as others have said, that it's a personal preference, and perhaps they think it looks less harsh...I looked at some of the videos on youtube and winced at all the back combing and hairspray! :shocked: :run:

Atlantic
August 19th, 2009, 11:30 AM
In the Dark Ages a woman could be declared a heretic and burned at the stake for cutting her hair.

Source? Nuns did it all the time. Here's a painting of St Clare (http://tarvos.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/images/7006294.JPG).

SimplyLonghair
August 19th, 2009, 11:33 AM
The Pentecostal Poof is not new, it just isn't in all churches of the Pentecostal churches. I grew up pentecostal and it was big even back then. I am almost 50, so I would say no not new.

I don't remember anyone giving the reasons that have been given, i.e. that it is so you can id someone from a distance because of it. Mostly the ones that I knew that wore it, did so because they thought that it was nice looking, mainly due to the fact that it kept the hair from looking slicked back.

plainjanegirl
August 19th, 2009, 12:24 PM
I am Pentecostal and I don't wear the "poof". Around in this area you don't see those too often except with maybe some older women. Some young girls do a small bump thing. One thing I have noticed is the more south you go the bigger the hairdos...at least for Pentecostals.

Redheaded Raven
August 19th, 2009, 12:30 PM
I agree that it can be a regional thing for sure.

It is really big here in some congregations, and nonexistent in others.

I like it on some folks, but not on others. It is like any other style, some people look good in it and others won't. :shrug:

Interesting thread though.:cheese:

Redheaded Raven
August 19th, 2009, 12:32 PM
I cannot remember but I have heard the higher the hair the closer to God.;) I think that they said that on the youtube videos of the LDS Yearning for Zion

angelthadiva
August 19th, 2009, 03:11 PM
I cannot remember but I have heard the higher the hair the closer to God.;) I think that they said that on the youtube videos of the LDS Yearning for Zion Bold mine


Pst, It's in my siggy! :o

Redheaded Raven
August 19th, 2009, 08:38 PM
Bold mine


Pst, It's in my siggy! :o
Okay that's :o one place but where did it come from?:rolleyes: I have heard it since I was little. Does anybody have a have source? I googled and all it has, that it is an old saying.... Oh well, it is not the first time google has failed me.:p:D I will just say, from now on, it came from angelthadiva. :happydance:
I hope that is okay? :hmm:

angelthadiva
August 19th, 2009, 11:20 PM
Okay that's :o one place but where did it come from?:rolleyes: I have heard it since I was little. Does anybody have a have source? I googled and all it has, that it is an old saying.... Oh well, it is not the first time google has failed me.:p:D I will just say, from now on, it came from angelthadiva. :happydance:
I hope that is okay? :hmm:


Truth be told :o I saw it on a little plaque that was being sold at Target. They had one that has the same tag line found in Ms. LisaJaney's siggy too (about not being the same after that house fell on her sister). I had not heard of the sayings before seeing LJ's here and the one at Target about the hair. I thought it was :lol:, so I of course, stole it! :D

Redheaded Raven
August 20th, 2009, 12:23 AM
angelthadiva

I love LJ's thing about the house! :lol: It is a hoot! I still say though that I am now going to attribute it to you from now on, just like LJ gets the not being the same since the house fell on her sister.
After all isn't LHC where all good info comes from?;):rolleyes::D

Bunnyhare
August 20th, 2009, 06:26 PM
OK, OhioLisa~ can you tell me how to do this!?I watched those videos and am not about to back comb or hairspray but i have been trying to find out how to do a pompadour for a year and everywhere i find vintage hairstyle directions it just says"put the front in a pompadour, then.." i loved Anne of Green gables hair and i have a picture of what i want to do in my album...can ANYONE tell me??? i have rats too and will use them!

keight425
August 20th, 2009, 06:35 PM
Is that the reason for the poof? Because in the bible some men had long hair, so is that the way to distingish between male and female? But men and women look very from a distance anyway.

Oh no, not the poof, I just ment that my Pentecostal co-worker girl said that the reason for wearing long hair/not cutting it, and wearing skirts was due to some scripture in the Old Testament saying that that was the reason you could tell the difference at a long distance. (Not that the poof was the reason)


I have been very drawn lately as well to modest dressing and long hair - I have a new friend who is Pentecostal and also I really enjoy watching shows like 18 Kids and Counting. I'm Methodist, we don't really have any rules on hair or dress that I'm aware of but there is just something very attractive to me about long hair and a skirt, it feels modest, feminine and also neat, pulled together looking. Shrug. I know I'm not expressing this very well but it was nice to see I'm not alone in my admiration.

I think you were able to express that very well, and it's exactly how I feel too. About 18Kids&Counting. LOVE LOVE LOVE that show.


I agree wholeheartedly!

There is something very appealing about the way the Duggar women dress!
The perceived comfort level and ease of movement has me wanting to wear loose tops and long skirts on occasion.

I agree wholeheartedly with you agreeing with sheltie agreeing with me! HAHAHA YES! Love it, and I've been looking for more long skirts recently as well.


The Pentecostal Poof is not new, it just isn't in all churches of the Pentecostal churches. I grew up pentecostal and it was big even back then. I am almost 50, so I would say no not new.

My mother-in-law was part of some church back in the 70's that wore the big poof/bouffant styles, so yeah it's something that sort of goes around, comes around through the years. She also said that they would keep their old hair out of their brushes and ball it up and put it under to make the poof so big. She thought it was really weird/nasty and I did too.... that is of course until I found LHC!! Now I would probably make my own hair piece that way... I just wouldn't tell her!


I am Pentecostal and I don't wear the "poof". Around in this area you don't see those too often except with maybe some older women. Some young girls do a small bump thing. One thing I have noticed is the more south you go the bigger the hairdos...at least for Pentecostals.

YEP! I'm in the South (well... Texas!) and that is for real!

AnneAdeline
August 20th, 2009, 07:30 PM
I need to learn how to do that poof!
For the past couple years, I've been noticing a lot of young women (from tweens on up) do a sort of mini-poof in the front. Nowhere near as big as some of the other 'dos, though. ;)

OhioLisa
August 20th, 2009, 11:28 PM
My mother-in-law was part of some church back in the 70's that wore the big poof/bouffant styles, so yeah it's something that sort of goes around, comes around through the years. She also said that they would keep their old hair out of their brushes and ball it up and put it under to make the poof so big. She thought it was really weird/nasty and I did too.... that is of course until I found LHC!! Now I would probably make my own hair piece that way... I just wouldn't tell her!

This is nothing new. Women have been doing it for ages. And yes, it is still a common practice. You keep the shed hair and then put it into a hair net. Then, you can shape it however you want / need.

OhioLisa
August 20th, 2009, 11:29 PM
OK, OhioLisa~ can you tell me how to do this!?I watched those videos and am not about to back comb or hairspray but i have been trying to find out how to do a pompadour for a year and everywhere i find vintage hairstyle directions it just says"put the front in a pompadour, then.." i loved Anne of Green gables hair and i have a picture of what i want to do in my album...can ANYONE tell me??? i have rats too and will use them!

You can use the method I described in the above post. But honestly, especially with my fine hair, some sort of hairspray or spray gel is essential. :shrug:

Flynn
August 20th, 2009, 11:53 PM
Okay that's :o one place but where did it come from?:rolleyes: I have heard it since I was little. Does anybody have a have source? I googled and all it has, that it is an old saying.... Oh well, it is not the first time google has failed me.:p:D I will just say, from now on, it came from angelthadiva. :happydance:
I hope that is okay? :hmm:

You know, it might just be meant to be a literal observation...

Redheaded Raven
August 21st, 2009, 12:48 AM
OK, OhioLisa~ can you tell me how to do this!?I watched those videos and am not about to back comb or hairspray but i have been trying to find out how to do a pompadour for a year and everywhere i find vintage hairstyle directions it just says"put the front in a pompadour, then.." i loved Anne of Green gables hair and i have a picture of what i want to do in my album...can ANYONE tell me??? i have rats too and will use them!This set of instructions helped me to be able to do a pompadour/gibson girl style. I love her instructions, they worked well for me, so that I understood how to do it without backcombing.
This is the link. (http://intimelyfashion.com/hair/gibson2.htm)

Good luck in creating the look. :D

WhitsEnd
August 21st, 2009, 07:34 AM
OK. I do the poof all the time and I do not tease, backcomb, or hairspray. I just gather some hair in the front push it foward and bobby pin it. For me it takes about 4 bobbypins and I have to cross them. My SIL showed me how to do this (she is pentacostal). She always does the poof with every hairstyle. For my wedding the poof was insanely high. She says that she likes it that way because it makes her look taller (she is not even 5 ft). I think that she always looks so put together.

Sheltie_Momma
August 21st, 2009, 07:48 AM
One thing I have noticed is the more south you go the bigger the hairdos...at least for Pentecostals.

That's just pretty much true across the board - despite the prevalence of flat ironing, trust me big hair is very much alive and well in Texas!

IStand4u
August 21st, 2009, 08:44 AM
Hmm this is actually a very interesting thread! I know that someone already mentioned this but the poof is more of a fashion statement, but their hair is long for religious purposes (I learned on Oprah).
I know we have a religious group up here where women keep their hair short and do it every three days at the hair dressers, but they always have to have their hair so perfect, no matter what the cost (being pricey styles or lots of product). They also always look so formal and put together. I think it's a group called Brenamites (my spelling could be off).
If anyone knows anything about them can someone please answer me why they have to have their hair short and so "perfect"?

Bunnyhare
August 21st, 2009, 11:24 AM
Redheadedraven, whitsend,ohiolisa~
Thank you! finally i understand what how it gets there! that link was very helpful redheaded raven...and the other tips are great too...i will get a pic if i get it looking good!

nowxisxforever
August 21st, 2009, 12:38 PM
Erk, the poof... yikes!! I greatly dislike "big hair".

I can't comb all my hair back, I have to have my part, or I'd probably do something like the "butterfly poof" sincei t's really not a poof at all, but rather, cute.

sissy304762
September 10th, 2009, 09:57 PM
i usually do my poof off to the side spun at the end i think it's really cute however i can do a bunch of different poofs :)

Aer
September 11th, 2009, 02:42 AM
I grow my hair out for slightly spiritual reasons. But I'm not a christian or monotheistic, I'm a pagan. There is a belief in some pagans that your power is in your hair, the longer ,the better. Some could argue that this could be traced to the story of Samson, but it might go further back or be from a different culture all together. I once read a historical book about how the proto Germans/Celts, believed that hair was very spiritual, and I've heard this about certain Native American tribes too. Either way, I feel my best when my hair is longer and healthier, and closer to my soul too.

oogie
September 11th, 2009, 06:10 AM
I was born into the pentacostal church. The only time I've ever had a "poof" was when it was fashionable to have a Farrah Fawcet hair (sp) The "poof" you're talking about is regional not religious. That I know of there is NO scripture for the poof. I have not seen such things really until I switched churches, that's about 20 years same church. Also some folks in this thread are mistaking mormon (LDS) poofs as pentacostal. Please be careful when calling out 'faith by hairdo".

The scripture about long hair can be found in 1 Cor 11 (New Testament btw) where many get their foundation for covering their hair and why to have long hair too. Either which way a person follows this scripture is not for me to dispute or defend. That they are faithful to their beliefs is enough for me.

Eniratak
September 12th, 2009, 11:43 PM
The Pentecostal poof was very prominent in my old church. It's just for fashion, really. There aren't any Biblical reasons for the poof, but there are for long hair and such.

Chibbylick
September 13th, 2009, 02:18 AM
Also some folks in this thread are mistaking mormon (LDS) poofs as pentacostal. Please be careful when calling out 'faith by hairdo".


Actually, some folks are mistakenly identifying RLDS poofs as (LDS) Mormon poofs. The RLDS, and the polygamist groups that have been referenced are not Mormon.
Mormon doctrines do require any particular hair length or style.
Chibby

oogie
September 13th, 2009, 03:01 AM
Actually, some folks are mistakenly identifying RLDS poofs as (LDS) Mormon poofs. The RLDS, and the polygamist groups that have been referenced are not Mormon.
Mormon doctrines do require any particular hair length or style.
Chibby

I stand corrected, thank you. :flowers:

hairyfairy
September 13th, 2009, 04:20 AM
It is/was true about Hindu women not wearing their hair loose. At least till my mother's generation. It is not even known today, except for some very old great-grandmothers exclaiming at the present generations lack of morals, courtesy etc. Only women of a certain class were allowed to wear their hair loose and no daugher/wife from a decent family was supposed to show her loose hair to any other man than her husband. One risked getting branded as 'loose' or a 'temptress' by doing so. That story in Ramayana starts when an man pulls a married woman into his chariot by her hair in her husband's absence. She vows that since she, the queen of a powerful king, was thus humiliated, and her most private possession was made public, she will not braid her hair till this ultimate indignity was avenged.

Widows had their head shaved.

The only other group of women allowed to wear their hair down were those who had taken the path of Sanyas or renouncement, because they were supposed to be above all material things, and so it didn't matter whether they kept their hair, wore it loose, bunned it or buzzed it.

My mother still gets annoyed if I go out of the house with my hair worn loose, but has learned not to say anything.

Gladtobemom
September 13th, 2009, 07:54 AM
Normally I would avoid a thread starting with"Religious" with alarcity.

On the other hand . . . I didn't and this is almost too much to bear.

Long hair messy bun apostolic pentecostal hairstyles (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVcNc7hTgE4)

Have you EVER seen so much hairspray used on anyone's hair? And the result so weird. Tangled straw in the back and weird little donuts on the side with a weird gumby hump on the other side.

It looks like the woman's trying to invent some avant-garde hairstyle for a science fiction themed fashion show--or some such.

eadwine
September 13th, 2009, 09:02 AM
Oh my.. look at the poor hair around 2:25 :(

fluffybunny
September 13th, 2009, 10:20 AM
All the Apostolic hair videos are weirdly fascinating, aren't they?

My mom joined that church in her late 40s. She started with fashionable short hair and ended up with terminal length just a bit below classic.

She hated the "big hair" look most of the other women in her church wore and tended to do Heidi braids or just a long pony. Trimming the ends was not allowed, and some of the congregations don't even allow braiding. There's a bible verse that can be interpreted to mean either braiding is a sin, or else braiding with gold and pearls is a sin, depending on your take. Fortunately she could braid.

Teakafrog
September 13th, 2009, 02:17 PM
I was looking at that last link, and found this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpWI0WDNEKk&feature=related). Wow. Just wow.

twolunarspring
September 13th, 2009, 02:30 PM
Wow, this thread has been a real eye-opener for me! I don't know if this kind of thing is as common in the UK... actually, I have never heard of quite a few sects mentioned.

I can't decide whether I think the "pouf" thing ("pouf" is English slang for camp/gay... is that not the case in the US?) is something I like or not, but it's certainly not something I had really seen before... I mean, the little mini quiffs with kirby grips I have seen on a lot of teenagers, but not the full-on roll.

florenonite
September 13th, 2009, 02:41 PM
Wow, this thread has been a real eye-opener for me! I don't know if this kind of thing is as common in the UK... actually, I have never heard of quite a few sects mentioned.

I can't decide whether I think the "pouf" thing ("pouf" is English slang for camp/gay... is that not the case in the US?) is something I like or not, but it's certainly not something I had really seen before... I mean, the little mini quiffs with kirby grips I have seen on a lot of teenagers, but not the full-on roll.

People don't use camp either in North America :p Much hilarity ensues when I tell my uni friends "camp stories" (i.e. stories from summer camp).

I do think there are a lot more less-mainstream Christian sects in North America than in Europe; after all, many of them (like the Mennonites and Amish) came to North America due to persecution in Europe.

BonnyJ
September 13th, 2009, 08:23 PM
As an Apostolic I "choose" to have uncut hair. The church that I attend believes more in a relationship with God rather than rules and regulations.

I do not do the poof myself but I have seen it on many women mostly the further south we are.

Just a little humor "the poof is also regarded as ones front porch".

sissy304762
September 13th, 2009, 09:13 PM
I love the poof and I just converted to apostolic I haven't cut my hair since march and absolutely love it.

QueenAnne'sLace
September 13th, 2009, 09:57 PM
I grew up in Central Illinois and in a few small farming towns in our area we had the Apostolic Christians, a type of Pentecostal. The guys just wore farming clothes and had everyday short hair, but the girls definitely wore the poof you mentioned. This hairstyle was adopted by a young woman when she made the decision to join the church. Apostolic girls grow up going to services and wearing long (mostly jean) skirts during their childhood and early teen years, but Apostolics do adult baptism. That means that they only fully become members in the church when they are old enought to make up their own minds. After joining (and usuall shortly therafter getting married) they adopt the poofy bun (some women with a simpler taste forgo the poof) and also attach a small black or brown (rarely white) oval lace doily over the bun with pins. The doily is a small version of a headcovering and done for the same Biblical verse associated reasons like the Amish do, just small and modern in a sense. Many Apostolic women develop a small bald spot on their head where they pull the hair tight to make part of the bun day after day, year after year. Although not a Christian myself, I grew up admiring Apostolic women for their feminine appearance and simple elegance. Pictures below! :blossom:
http://www.each.org/Graphics/PagePhotos/MakingScarves.jpghttp://headcoveringveils.webs.com/IMG_1202_1.jpg

QueenAnne'sLace
September 13th, 2009, 10:02 PM
In our church, I tend to see more of poof at the crown of the head (think Bumpits but not so pronounced), sometimes a moderate front poof. For me personally, it makes me feel like my updos are not as "severe" looking. There is no scriptural reason for the poof, just plain old personal preferences.
Absolutely! The Apostolic Christians I've talked to say it's more about giving the women a modern-looking style they can feel elegant in.

Flynn
September 13th, 2009, 10:10 PM
Wow, this thread has been a real eye-opener for me! I don't know if this kind of thing is as common in the UK... actually, I have never heard of quite a few sects mentioned.

I can't decide whether I think the "pouf" thing ("pouf" is English slang for camp/gay... is that not the case in the US?) is something I like or not, but it's certainly not something I had really seen before... I mean, the little mini quiffs with kirby grips I have seen on a lot of teenagers, but not the full-on roll.

Isn't the slang "poof" and "pouf" or "pouffe" nothing else?

QueenAnne'sLace
September 13th, 2009, 10:10 PM
Source? Nuns did it all the time. Here's a painting of St Clare (http://tarvos.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/images/7006294.JPG).
I think it might be the other way around. Women were declared heretics or witches and then their hair was cut and they were burned. It was a sign of dishonor, ugliness, and even diseased poverty (lice infestations caused the peasantry and prisoners to often have shorn hair)

Flynn
September 13th, 2009, 10:12 PM
I was looking at that last link, and found this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpWI0WDNEKk&feature=related). Wow. Just wow.

... It doesn't make sense. O.o

glass in bloom
September 13th, 2009, 10:25 PM
I was looking at that last link, and found this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpWI0WDNEKk&feature=related). Wow. Just wow.

Short hair = harlot?
short hair = gossip?

Yikes!

Flynn
September 13th, 2009, 10:29 PM
Short hair = harlot?
short hair = gossip?

Yikes!

Also, (paraphrasing) "I'm deadset against anyone trying to force a woman to do something but I COMMAND YOU to do as I say." O.o

glass in bloom
September 13th, 2009, 10:43 PM
Also, (paraphrasing) "I'm deadset against anyone trying to force a woman to do something but I COMMAND YOU to do as I say." O.o

I know. And at the same time "I don't want to see any hypocrites in my church!"

I think he needs to take a step back and cool down a little.

twolunarspring
September 14th, 2009, 04:27 AM
Isn't the slang "poof" and "pouf" or "pouffe" nothing else?

I don't entirely understand the question... 'pouf' or 'poof' is a not-very-nice word for a gay person... not as unpleasant as '******' but in a similar vein.

A pouffe (pronounces poof-ay) is an upholstered footstool!

EDIT: oh wow - there's a swear filter on this forum! That's a new thing to me.

Flynn
September 14th, 2009, 05:25 AM
I don't entirely understand the question... 'pouf' or 'poof' is a not-very-nice word for a gay person... not as unpleasant as '******' but in a similar vein.

A pouffe (pronounces poof-ay) is an upholstered footstool!

EDIT: oh wow - there's a swear filter on this forum! That's a new thing to me.

In my understanding, they're pronounced the same as each other, but have different meaning. Poof, or poofter is an unkind term for a homosexual gent. Pouf is a hairstyle, an upholstered footstool, or a puffy bit on a skirt, and does not carry any of the connotations of poof. Pouffe is an alternative spelling (and apparently also sometimes alternative pronunciation) of pouf.

florenonite
September 14th, 2009, 06:25 AM
In my understanding, they're pronounced the same as each other, but have different meaning. Poof, or poofter is an unkind term for a homosexual gent. Pouf is a hairstyle, an upholstered footstool, or a puffy bit on a skirt, and does not carry any of the connotations of poof. Pouffe is an alternative spelling (and apparently also sometimes alternative pronunciation) of pouf.

I think because "poof" is dialectal it's not subject to harsh spelling standards. In the quotations for the term on the OED (yes, I'm that much of a geek ><), "pouf" and "poove" are both alternate spellings used in the last century:


1955 G. GREENE (http://dictionary.oed.com/help/bib/oed2-g2.html#g-greene) Quiet Amer. IV. ii. 241 He made a feeble attempt to mock my accent. ‘You all talk like poufs. You're so damned superior.’


1978 R. RENDELL (http://dictionary.oed.com/help/bib/oed2-r.html#r-rendell) Sleeping Life xiii. 109 All you can do is get your picture in the papers like some poove of a film actor.

So it would be acceptable (grammatically, of course, not otherwise) to say "pouf" as a derogatory term for a male homosexual, even though I get the impression that "poof" is the "correct" way.

Elettaria
September 14th, 2009, 06:59 AM
I just finished reading [i[If You Don't Know Me By Now[/i] by Sathnam Sanghera, which talks about his family and his experience growing up in Wolverhampton (England) in a Sikh Punjabi family.

He doesn't mention hair restrictions for women at any point, although traditional dress includes a loose scarf over the head. In the photos, I think all of the women had long hair. I couldn't quite see what the adults were doing with their hair, it looked like a bun. The children generally had their hair in one or two plaits.

Long hair is adopted by some men and not others in Sikh communities in the UK. The hair is uncut for religious reasons. It appears that the turban is only worn by adults. Sanghera's elder brother and father don't have long hair (his father apparently did when younger but cut it off before leaving India), but his mother was going through a religious phase when Sathnam was born, so he ended up with long hair. As a child, the hair would be plaited in a very high topknot, put into a bun, and covered with a hankerchief which appears to be secured with a rubber band, an effect rather like a small mob cap. You can see this on the book cover (http://www.amazon.co.uk/You-Dont-Know-Now-Wolverhampton/dp/0670916706/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1252932187&sr=8-1). His mother used to do his hair for him, and it sounds like she'd have fun with how she put it into a bun even though no one would see it. It took an incredibly long time to dry, which seems to have been a huge nuisance. Unsurprisingly, the poor kid was frequently taken for a girl and while his primary school was mostly Indian children and there was another topknot in his class, when he went to secondary school there were far fewer Indian kids, he was one of only a few topknots in the entire school, and he was bullied a great deal about it. He spent a long time planning to sneak out to a hairdresser, had it all chopped off when he was 14 (by which point it was knee-length), and pretty much felt like a new man. His mother turned out not to make a fuss in the end, and his confidence grew astonishingly. The hairdresser gave him the plait for his mother to keep, and they were meant to dispose of it in running water according to superstition. Unfortunately the only body of water they could think of was a local canal, and it wasn't running, so he assumes that his topknot is still there at the bottom of the canal.

As well as muddling religions a bit in this thread, do be careful not to assume that when someone says "women from X faith do Y with their hair" that they're necessarily talking about all women. It may even be a small minority. Ultra-Orthodox Jewish women cover their hair with a wig when they marry. The wig may be synthetic, human hair or a mixture of the two, depending on cost and religious slant. The hair underneath may or may not be shaved. A scarf may be worn over or instead of the wig, or not at all. This is only a small minority of Jewish women, although if you're in an ultra-Orthodox area it can seem like all of them. Modern Orthodox women tend to wear hats in synagogue as a sort of filtered-down version of this rule. Progressive Jewish women don't follow this rule at all, doing whatever they like with their hair, and some may wear kippot (skullcaps) in synagogue, or even full-time. When I was practising Judaism, I was in a Liberal community (Progressive), and I wore a kippa for synagogue, secured with a couple of kirbigrips. They tend to move around if your hair is loose, although I don't really go out with loose hair anyway, so I'd generally put my hair in a bun, and make sure the bun was low enough that it wouldn't get in the way of the kippa. I think I went out with my hair in a plait or half-up a few times as well.

As for "pouf", this is making me flinch as well, particularly as I'm queer myself. florenonite is absolutely right that the spelling isn't all that fixed. In addition, people hurling insults rarely look them up in the dictionary first, and I'm sure no one here has missed the generally poor standard of spelling these days, especially online.

OhioLisa
September 14th, 2009, 08:15 AM
I grew up in Central Illinois and in a few small farming towns in our area we had the Apostolic Christians, a type of Pentecostal. The guys just wore farming clothes and had everyday short hair, but the girls definitely wore the poof you mentioned. This hairstyle was adopted by a young woman when she made the decision to join the church. Apostolic girls grow up going to services and wearing long (mostly jean) skirts during their childhood and early teen years, but Apostolics do adult baptism. That means that they only fully become members in the church when they are old enought to make up their own minds. After joining (and usuall shortly therafter getting married) they adopt the poofy bun (some women with a simpler taste forgo the poof) and also attach a small black or brown (rarely white) oval lace doily over the bun with pins. The doily is a small version of a headcovering and done for the same Biblical verse associated reasons like the Amish do, just small and modern in a sense. Many Apostolic women develop a small bald spot on their head where they pull the hair tight to make part of the bun day after day, year after year. Although not a Christian myself, I grew up admiring Apostolic women for their feminine appearance and simple elegance. Pictures below! :blossom:

Just to clarify, this is NOT what all Apostolics do. Particularly the bit about marrying soon after joining, bald spots, and head coverings.

Eniratak
September 14th, 2009, 05:04 PM
http://apostolicgirl.com/braided%20bun%20archeives.htm

That is a rather good site to look at how Apostolic Pentecostals fix the 'poof' in the front.

Flynn
September 14th, 2009, 05:12 PM
I think because "poof" is dialectal it's not subject to harsh spelling standards. In the quotations for the term on the OED (yes, I'm that much of a geek ><), "pouf" and "poove" are both alternate spellings used in the last century:





So it would be acceptable (grammatically, of course, not otherwise) to say "pouf" as a derogatory term for a male homosexual, even though I get the impression that "poof" is the "correct" way.

Yeah, but "flit" was a perfectly valid alternative for "poof" in the last less-than-a-century, but it no longer carries that meaning >_o

It's not a big deal: the only people who would use the term with that meaning would have to be illiterate bigots anyway. >_o (Not that I have anything against illiterates; it's usually not their fault!)

twolunarspring
September 14th, 2009, 05:18 PM
In my understanding, they're pronounced the same as each other, but have different meaning. Poof, or poofter is an unkind term for a homosexual gent. Pouf is a hairstyle, an upholstered footstool, or a puffy bit on a skirt, and does not carry any of the connotations of poof. Pouffe is an alternative spelling (and apparently also sometimes alternative pronunciation) of pouf.

I have never heard or seen 'pouf' as a hairstyle before this thread... I have seen both 'poof' and 'pouf' as a derogatory slang term for gay people, and as you say, they are pronounced the same.

plainjanegirl
September 14th, 2009, 05:26 PM
I grew up in Central Illinois and in a few small farming towns in our area we had the Apostolic Christians, a type of Pentecostal. The guys just wore farming clothes and had everyday short hair, but the girls definitely wore the poof you mentioned. This hairstyle was adopted by a young woman when she made the decision to join the church. Apostolic girls grow up going to services and wearing long (mostly jean) skirts during their childhood and early teen years, but Apostolics do adult baptism. That means that they only fully become members in the church when they are old enought to make up their own minds. After joining (and usuall shortly therafter getting married) they adopt the poofy bun (some women with a simpler taste forgo the poof) and also attach a small black or brown (rarely white) oval lace doily over the bun with pins. The doily is a small version of a headcovering and done for the same Biblical verse associated reasons like the Amish do, just small and modern in a sense. Many Apostolic women develop a small bald spot on their head where they pull the hair tight to make part of the bun day after day, year after year. Although not a Christian myself, I grew up admiring Apostolic women for their feminine appearance and simple elegance. Pictures below! :blossom:
http://www.each.org/Graphics/PagePhotos/MakingScarves.jpghttp://headcoveringveils.webs.com/IMG_1202_1.jpg



You grew up in central Illinois? Where at? I am from Illinois.

may1em
September 14th, 2009, 05:27 PM
Wow! This thread has really taken off. Lots of interesting info here. :)

As for the poof/pouf debate - I'm American, and neither word has any derogatory meaning in the US. Though it's not surprising that a word that is perfectly innocent on one side of the Atlantic might not be on the other, it's not something I'd thought about. Divided by a common language, aren't we? I sincerely apologize for any offense I may have caused, as this was not my intent. I'll be more careful in the future.

Flynn
September 14th, 2009, 09:45 PM
Wow! This thread has really taken off. Lots of interesting info here. :)

As for the poof/pouf debate - I'm American, and neither word has any derogatory meaning in the US. Though it's not surprising that a word that is perfectly innocent on one side of the Atlantic might not be on the other, it's not something I'd thought about. Divided by a common language, aren't we? I sincerely apologize for any offense I may have caused, as this was not my intent. I'll be more careful in the future.

Hahaha, like any word, meaning depends on usage; no offence should have been caused.

QueenAnne'sLace
September 14th, 2009, 10:00 PM
You grew up in central Illinois? Where at? I am from Illinois.
Peoria, to be precise. :) I spent most of my childhood in Pottstown and the surrounding farmland. You?

QueenAnne'sLace
September 14th, 2009, 10:09 PM
I suppose there probably are some Apostolics that don't. All I know about are the families I grew up with and their churches.

GlennaGirl
September 14th, 2009, 10:15 PM
I need to learn how to do that poof!
For the past couple years, I've been noticing a lot of young women (from tweens on up) do a sort of mini-poof in the front. Nowhere near as big as some of the other 'dos, though. ;)

The Duff puff? (http://www.sedustyles.beauty-hair-styles.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/hillary-duff-hair-styles.JPG)

singindierain
September 14th, 2009, 11:47 PM
I'm Apostolic. The Apostolic denomination you're referring to where women wear the small circular veils is the Apostolic Assembly. This is the denomination I belong to.

Veils are made of toile. The newer "hip" veils aren't at all like doilies. They are made of toil and some have embroidery and sequins along the edge of the circle. The older women are the ones you'll see wearing the larger veils and the doily looking ones.

I can post some pics of anyone wants to see them??

As for the "Pentecostal Hairdos" you're referring to...the ones you see on YouTube are United Pentecostal (I grew up United Pentecostal). The most popular videos are those by Abigail Goss. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73OcD_YQfdg)UPCI youth are the ones you see that generally wear elaborate hairdos. Well, they are elaborate but most don't take long to do. This is one such hairdo on me.
http://usera.ImageCave.com/singindierain/2749823577_a565bb35f1.jpg
Here's another (not on me) You can find directions for this one under Abigail Goss's videos.
http://usera.ImageCave.com/singindierain/3797577970_a4bea9f12f.jpg
http://usera.ImageCave.com/singindierain/3805703318_a38e6bdf25.jpg

The two denominations (Apostolic and United Pentecostal) are very similar except that the Apostolic denomination is geared more to Hispanics.

Kibeth
September 15th, 2009, 12:49 AM
singindierain, is braiding forbidden or is it just not in style?

OhioLisa
September 15th, 2009, 01:07 AM
The two denominations (Apostolic and United Pentecostal) are very similar except that the Apostolic denomination is geared more to Hispanics.

Also inaccurate.

plainjanegirl
September 15th, 2009, 04:54 AM
I'm Apostolic. The Apostolic denomination you're referring to where women wear the small circular veils is the Apostolic Assembly. This is the denomination I belong to.

Veils are made of toile. The newer "hip" veils aren't at all like doilies. They are made of toil and some have embroidery and sequins along the edge of the circle. The older women are the ones you'll see wearing the larger veils and the doily looking ones.

I can post some pics of anyone wants to see them??

As for the "Pentecostal Hairdos" you're referring to...the ones you see on YouTube are United Pentecostal (I grew up United Pentecostal). The most popular videos are those by Abigail Goss. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73OcD_YQfdg)UPCI youth are the ones you see that generally wear elaborate hairdos. Well, they are elaborate but most don't take long to do. This is one such hairdo on me.
http://usera.ImageCave.com/singindierain/2749823577_a565bb35f1.jpg
Here's another (not on me) You can find directions for this one under Abigail Goss's videos.
http://usera.ImageCave.com/singindierain/3797577970_a4bea9f12f.jpg
http://usera.ImageCave.com/singindierain/3805703318_a38e6bdf25.jpg

The two denominations (Apostolic and United Pentecostal) are very similar except that the Apostolic denomination is geared more to Hispanics.


We have apostolics around here that don't have any hispanics. I always thought that Apostolics are just not as strict as UPC. Maybe I'm wrong.
Cute updo in the first pic!!!

plainjanegirl
September 15th, 2009, 04:56 AM
Peoria, to be precise. :) I spent most of my childhood in Pottstown and the surrounding farmland. You?

Oh ok. See we consider Peoria more northern.
Some of the bigger towns nearby would be Effingham or Litchfield.

singindierain
September 15th, 2009, 05:39 AM
OhioLisa~I'm not sure what you're referring to as inaccurate. While I realize there are other races within the Apostolic Assembly, it is geared towards Hispanics and most congregations are bilingual. I can't speak about other Apostolic organizations because I do not belong to other organizations. The two I have grown up in are the UPCI and AA.

If this wasn't what you were calling "inaccurate" please explain. Sorry to the original poster for getting off topic.

Kilbeth~braiding isn't forbidden within the two organizations I mentioned. I don't see many younger women wearing like the french braid but you do see little girls with their hair in braids. Styles come and go. It may come back. My mother never braided her hair because of the scripture referencing brioded hair. But that standard isn't really in place anymore.

PlaneJaneGirl~there are several different "branches" or denominations that call themselves Apostolic. For example: I grew up in the United Pentecostal Church but the name of our church was the Apostolic Lighthouse. Often Pentecostal people will call themselves Apostolic or Apostolic Pentecostals. These are filled with persons of all race/ethnicity. However, the Apostolic Assembly is primarily hispanic and spanish speaking or bilingual. Hope that helps clear up confusion. Thanks for the comments about the pictures.

I can post other pictures of some of the popular hairstyles but most can be found with easy instructions on YouTube.

OhioLisa
September 15th, 2009, 08:34 AM
You said "Apostolic" not "Apostolic Assembly" with which I am unfamiliar, so if that is the one to which you are referring, then I wouldn't know. But the Apostolic denomination itself is not geared toward hispanics. That was my point.

Apostolic Pentecostals are not the same as Pentecostals, so the terms are not interchangeable.

Most Apostolics do not cover their hair.

Elettaria
September 17th, 2009, 05:27 AM
Wow! This thread has really taken off. Lots of interesting info here. :)

As for the poof/pouf debate - I'm American, and neither word has any derogatory meaning in the US. Though it's not surprising that a word that is perfectly innocent on one side of the Atlantic might not be on the other, it's not something I'd thought about. Divided by a common language, aren't we? I sincerely apologize for any offense I may have caused, as this was not my intent. I'll be more careful in the future.

Don't worry, it was obviously meant quite innocently, and I'm not at all surprised to hear you say that the term isn't used like that on your side of the pond. I recently had a weird incident with someone who was using "spaz" and told me off for being offended. It's a highly derogatory term relating to people with disabilities in the UK, and apparently not so much in the US.

AJoifulNoise
September 17th, 2009, 06:27 AM
So not sure if I should stick my nose into this, but I think I'm going to. I was Apostolic Pentecostal. We had all races in our congregation (a big deal in our rural MD area), none covered their heads, and some did the poof- we were all familiar with it. That church was pretty strict, and it only got stricter the longer I was there. I think making generalizations is going to cause problems, no matter what you do. Each church body is a little different, even within a denomination. Just because it is one way in your area, doesn't mean that is the way it is across the board. My two cents.

:run:

florenonite
September 17th, 2009, 09:17 AM
Don't worry, it was obviously meant quite innocently, and I'm not at all surprised to hear you say that the term isn't used like that on your side of the pond. I recently had a weird incident with someone who was using "spaz" and told me off for being offended. It's a highly derogatory term relating to people with disabilities in the UK, and apparently not so much in the US.

Yeah, I have to be careful about using that word here in Scotland, because I didn't even know until recently that it had anything to do with disabilities; in North America "spaz" refers to people freaking out about insignificant things, and AFAIK doesn't come from disabilities.

On topic: I remember reading a couple years ago about some controversy in France because France decided to ban the hijab in schools, and a lot of the Muslim girls were upset because they were going against their religion by not covering their hair. One girl shaved her head, claiming that the Koran does not prohibit an uncovered head, just uncovered hair, so she removed her hair because she couldn't cover it. I was wondering if anyone with more information regarding Islam could perhaps explain to me in greater detail the actual rules regarding women's hair in Islam. Are they allowed to show it to other women? Relatives? If they're allowed to uncover their hair in front of relatives, what constitutes a relative? ETA: I'm talking about a strict interpretation of the Koran's text; I've met Muslims who didn't cover their hair, and so I imagine there are others who cover it sometimes or partially, but I'm wondering what the strict interpretation would be.

Aeris
September 17th, 2009, 10:36 AM
Strictly, our hair should only be seen by other women (although there is debate over covering it around lesbians) and the woman's husband, father, brother, son, uncle, and a few other male relatives (only those related by blood). Father-in-laws and others that are only relatives by marriage should not see the woman's hair.

I look forward to wearing it someday =) I have a few pretty ones. And it protects the hair very well against the elements.

Aeris
September 17th, 2009, 10:43 AM
Oops..actually I think many sources disagree about Father-in-Laws, and more of them say it is allowed for him to see the hair. Brother-in-Laws are still not allowed. Sorry for my mistake!

ZadenWillowfyre
September 17th, 2009, 10:52 AM
As kind of a different POV, hair is considered a great link to a person in magic and occult type practices. Is physiognomy (divination of body parts such as Palmistry), long thick hair is considered a sign of independence and originality.

lembke
September 21st, 2009, 07:38 PM
what one do you wanna see the front or the back poof?? i can get you pics of both if you want.

lembke
September 21st, 2009, 07:41 PM
i was talking bout the penticostal poofs in my last post sorry.

lacereza
September 22nd, 2009, 12:20 AM
...........................

florenonite
September 22nd, 2009, 03:29 AM
It's not the Quran that clearly mentions hair, AFAIK, but Hadith. Wikipedia has info about the difference :) Here's general info http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=7&ID=514&CATE=2

Thank you for the link!

Merlin
September 22nd, 2009, 05:38 AM
i was talking bout the penticostal poofs in my last post sorry.

Sorry, but 'pentacostal poofs' conjures up all the wrong images for me. :)

narrow_road25
December 1st, 2009, 08:14 PM
Hi, I come from a long family line of old fashioned pentecostals. My Grandmother has worn the pentecostal poof her entire life and just recently cut it because of her headaches. I am a pentecostal Christian but I don't wear my hair in her styles. It's more like a tradition for my family than a style. Or I guess it's both. It's a traditional style. :) Her mother wore it like that and so did her grandmother and her greatgrandmother. The long hair does relate directly to the Bible saying that it is your glory it should be protected. I do have long hair but not for the Bible. My church isn't quite as old fashioned as that although we do have women who still have those traditions.
Thanks just thought I'd share. I'm from Arkansas and the "old fashioned poof" is much more common there than in Kansas where I live now.
God Bless.

Nicoliee
January 14th, 2011, 06:02 AM
Pentecostal Poof. They can be any size. Some even do ones that are slanted. With Pentecostal hair it seems nothing is too strange.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=4199699&l=36432dd29c&id=538796231

http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc441/apentecostalgirl/Facebook%20Picnik2%20Photos/38828_418760146231_538796231_5230904_5083144_n.jpg


http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc441/apentecostalgirl/Facebook%20Picnik2%20Photos/11043_198687181231_538796231_3584261_7797694_n.jpg

http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc441/apentecostalgirl/Facebook%20Picnik2%20Photos/11043_197042111231_538796231_3572659_2776959_n.jpg


This is nothing new. Women have been doing it for ages. And yes, it is still a common practice. You keep the shed hair and then put it into a hair net. Then, you can shape it however you want / need.
I haven't heard about doing a poof this way! I'm going to have to get a net. Do you know what type of net?

MandyBeth
January 14th, 2011, 11:43 AM
As for the "Pentecostal Hairdos" you're referring to...the ones you see on YouTube are United Pentecostal (I grew up United Pentecostal). The most popular videos are those by Abigail Goss. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73OcD_YQfdg)UPCI youth are the ones you see that generally wear elaborate hairdos.

Ok, watched some of her videos.

1. Wow, talk about proof of evil of hairspray, rough combing and back combing. I know my hair is damaged, but yikes is the nicest I can say.

2. Is she a UPCI youth? What's the age range for that?

3. The poof is just scary. Then adding Downy to it.

milagro
January 14th, 2011, 01:01 PM
I was raised as Orthodox Christian. I'm not very religious but I always cover my head when attending church. It is prescribed - men take off their hats, women cover their hair. Revealing clothes are also not welcome.
But if one comes to think of it loose uncovered hair is a relatively new thing, traditionally women covered their heads (styles could vary considerably but there wassomething on the head anyway) when out of their own home, not only in church. My grandmother always wore hats (or headscarves as a more relaxed/summer/country option) and didn't leave home without stockings even in summertime! and she was born in 20s. The next generation was quite different already but before that it was like that for centuries.

Kat Girl
January 29th, 2011, 02:51 PM
I used to be Pentecostal. From what I learned the rules are that a female is not to cut her hair ever in any way shape or form, so they just grow their natural hair.

The poof is more of a trend and even a tradition and kind of a "classic old time Pentecostal" look that many still like to do. I kind of like the old timey classic feel to it.

Also I remember when I went a lot of the women liked to wear their hair up a lot and we had a church rule that any woman who was going to sing or be on the stage for whatever reason should wear her hair up for that night. Other than that it was not "wrong" to wear your hair down, but wearing it up was seen in the community as modest and I guess classy.

Also another thing to take into consideration was when you had all of that long completely uncut hair, and you styled it with curls, teasing, and lots of hairspray (as most popular Pentecostal hairstyles involved) your hair does get to a point where it becomes very difficult to just wear it down without at least straightening or curling and still using a lot of hairspray, so wearing it up becomes more practical than anything.

But anyway so far as I know the only rule is women don't cut their hair.

I had seen many Pentecostal women get perms, but I didn't really see them color their hair, so not sure about that one.

As far as I know everything else falls into either the practical or the stylish categories.

ApostolicMom
July 15th, 2011, 05:01 PM
Let's see... so much to say and respond to.I will try not turn this into a sermon but it seems that there is much confusion on many topics. My comments are based on what I have been taught and what I understand from the KJV Bible and using an exhaustive concordance. (the Bible was translated to English- in that translation, meanings of words were changed. We need to go back to the original word and it's meaning to get the "real meaning"):)

First: the "pouf" is mostly a style thing. There is nothing to my knowledge in any religious writing that would say otherwise- If I am wrong I would love someone to tell me.

Second: Braiding is not necessarily wrong. In 1 Timothy 2:9 Broided refers to weaving ribbon, jewels, etc within the hair. This is what is to be avoided (the basis is that it draws attention to self and away from God)

Third: In 1 Corinthians 11:13-15 it says long hair on a man is a shame and a womans long hair is a glory and her covering. In verse 13- a woman should be "covered" and if her hair is a covering (v 15) then why would we use a veil to pray? God has given us a covering. Ok, what does it mean by long? 20"? 40"? Read verses 5-6 and we understand that hair that is shaved or shorn (cut) is NOT long. It doesn't matter if you trim the ends you are still cutting the hair. So long hair is UNCUT hair. In verse 7 it says a man's head should not be covered. So, if our hair is a covering then the man should have little of it in order for it not to be considered a covered head. We are taught that it should stay off the ears.

Fourth: A woman wearing her hair down... I feel that to wear your long hair in an eccentric or flowing way brings attention to yourself. We need to give honor and praise to God and not to ourselves. (I feel that many of today's styles draw attention to us and not God but that is a personal opinion) The only time my hair is down in public is when it has fallen down, I have braided it to give my head a rest (rarely and I usually am not planning on going out), or I intend on doing something that makes my hair in a bun impractacle ie. dentist, medical tests, swimming etc.

Yes, I claim to be an Apostolic. No, I am not Hispanic. You can claim any name you want. My beliefs are based on the Apostle's doctrine- the Bible. That is why I am Apostolic. Not because that is the name on the sign of my church.

I did not intend to be preachy- If I seemed that way I apologize. I just wanted to clarify some of the confusion and it seemed that many were having a hard time doing that. :o

RitaCeleste
July 15th, 2011, 08:18 PM
I've had friends that were Pentecostal but they did trim their hair, could have bangs if they wanted. So there seems to be lots of differences between churches as to what is okay and what isn't. Personally I believe in talking in tongues laying on hands and gifts of the spirit and have done those things. The Holy Spirit never seemed unhappy about how I looked or made me feel heavy of heart for a haircut or jeans. Now, my family is Baptist and Methodist, so when they caught me praying in tongues they sent me to the woods to pray alone based on what their Bible said. If I had to choose a church, I would choose a charismatic one. But the dress code has always bothered me but for me its the smallest part of it. People act like its the biggest part and its not.

AnnaJamila
July 15th, 2011, 08:24 PM
I don't remember where, but I once heard a person explain the poof as well as being fashionable they thought the bigger the better as that extra inch or two makes them taller and therefore that much closer to heaven?

Madora
July 15th, 2011, 09:29 PM
Does anyone know why the Chinese men always wore long queques? I watched The Good Earth with Paul Muni and marvelled at his very long queque (wig) which he wore around his head. It was quite impressive! Thanks!

AshleyTheRed
July 15th, 2011, 10:31 PM
I know many families that the women aren't allowed to cut their hair for religious reasons.
I think Casey is Pentecostal. (she trims her hair, but her sisters, mother and grandmother do not) When her grandmother died, by not trimming her hair it has all broken off. So it was really short. (It was ankle length).

Another friend I have is a Mennonite. Their hair is all very long, but I have no idea how long because it is always up. I know her through her mother who has the same disease my mom has.

BlazingHeart
July 15th, 2011, 10:49 PM
Does anyone know why the Chinese men always wore long queques? I watched The Good Earth with Paul Muni and marvelled at his very long queque (wig) which he wore around his head. It was quite impressive! Thanks!

I do, indeed. The queue (which was not a wig, in the Chinese tradition), was a symbol of the Han domination over the Manchu people. When the Han conquered the Manchu in the 17th century, they made the Manchu wear a queue. (The Han men did not cut their hair; they were generally Confucian and one of his sayings addresses how one ought to care for the body, which includes not cutting the hair.) That queue became a tradition, to the point where Chinese-Americans in the 18th century refused to obey ordinances requiring the cutting of their queues, fought it in court, and won.

~Blaze

Nastasia
July 15th, 2011, 11:35 PM
Blazingheart, I think you got it backwards. The queue was a traditional Manchu men's hairstyle, and when they conquered the Han Chinese and founded the Qing dynasty (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qing_dynasty), they mandated it for all men under their rule. It started as basically a loyalty test. If you accepted your new rulers, you followed the law and styled your hair like they did. If you were rebellious and refused to shave the front of your head (which, you're right, is against Confucian values), you were obviously a traitor and would be executed. Over the centuries (the Qing dynasty lasted from 1644 to 1912), it just became set in stone.

Mommyof4
July 15th, 2011, 11:52 PM
I've had friends that were Pentecostal but they did trim their hair, could have bangs if they wanted. So there seems to be lots of differences between churches as to what is okay and what isn't. Personally I believe in talking in tongues laying on hands and gifts of the spirit and have done those things. The Holy Spirit never seemed unhappy about how I looked or made me feel heavy of heart for a haircut or jeans. Now, my family is Baptist and Methodist, so when they caught me praying in tongues they sent me to the woods to pray alone based on what their Bible said. If I had to choose a church, I would choose a charismatic one. But the dress code has always bothered me but for me its the smallest part of it. People act like its the biggest part and its not.

:D I'm friend requesting you. I am a pants wearing, hair cutting, Pentecostal.

hairwap
July 16th, 2011, 12:55 AM
Orthodox Brahmans have long hair

Saranne772
July 16th, 2011, 01:51 AM
I wear my hair long for faith reasons. I do cut it- mostly S&D or a trim, I wouldn't cut back a major amount. I believe that God has ordained women to have long hair. My interpretation of long is to be able to tell from behind if you are male or female. For the same reason I do not wear trousers.

I don't like to have too much decoration in my hair- so although I have hair toys I dont have very fancy ones- the one in my avatar for example I do not have anymore. This is because I dont want to draw attention to "my glory" Plus the verse about broided hair.

I also believe in covering my head during church services. In the context of the passage I believe the covering is two different types- 1)a literal covering and 2)the hair- a different word is used in the original language for the coverings. In the context of the passage it cant just be the hair. I've found a quote for that because I do not have time to type it out myself.

Note the following verses.

11:5-- “but any woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered disgraces her head--it is one and the same thing as having her head shaved.”

11:6-- “For if a woman will not cover herself, then she should cut off her hair; but if it is disgraceful for a woman to have her hair cut off or to be shaved, she should keep it covered.

11:7-- “For a man ought not to cover his head . . .”

11:10-- “For this reason a woman ought to have [a symbol of] authority on her head”

11:13-- “Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered?”

11:15-- “but if a woman has long hair, it is her glory . . .”

Several points can be made here. (1) If ‘covering’ = ‘hair,’ then all men should shave their heads or go bald because the men are to have their heads uncovered. (2) If ‘covering’ = ‘long hair,’ then v 6 seems to suggest a tautology: “if a woman will not wear long hair, then she should cut off her hair.” But this in no way advances the argument. (3) The argument caves in by its own subtlety. To see ‘hair’ = ‘head covering’ means that one has to go through several exegetical hoops. In short, it hardly appears to be the plain meaning of the text. (4) Verses 10 and 15 would have to be saying the same thing if long hair is the same as a head covering. But this can hardly be the case. In v 10, a woman is required to wear a ‘symbol of authority.’ Such a symbol represents her submission, not her glory. Paul begins the verse by pointing back to v 9 (diaV tou'to in v 10, ‘for this reason,’ is inferential). Because ‘woman was created for the sake of man’ she ought to wear a symbol of authority on her head. But in v 15, a woman’s long hair is her glory. The Greek is even more emphatic: the dative aujth'/ is a dative of advantage. A literal translation would be: ‘it is a glory to her’ or ‘a glory accruing to her,’ or ‘to her advantage.’ Surely this is not the point of v 10!

To argue, then, that long hair is the woman’s head covering seems to miss the very point of the function of the head covering and of the long hair: one shows her submission while the other shows her glory. Both of these are contrasted with an uncovered head while praying or prophesying, or a shaved head at any time: such would speak of the woman’s humiliation and shame.

pittsburgpam
July 16th, 2011, 05:36 AM
My family was Penecostal when I was very young and I do remember the women having long hair. My great-aunt, who had total gray hair that she wore in braids wrapped around her head, told me that a woman's hair was her crowning glory from God, which is why she didn't cut it.

Melanie Marie
July 16th, 2011, 06:18 AM
I am a mixed-race Catholic, and we believe that fashion and appearance are somewhat cultural. For example, in India it isn't considered immodest to show your stomach when you wear a sari, but in western countries it can be considered immodest to show your stomach. The Catholic Church recognizes these differences, but there are certain things that remain the same regardless of culture.

Veiling is not required for Catholic women anymore, but the gesture is always appreciated. In many places in western Africa like Nigeria and Sierra Leon, Catholic women cover their heads while at church, and Catholic women in South Korea usually wear white chapel veils.

I personally wear a chapel veil when I am in a Catholic or Orthodox church because I believe in showing extra respect for the Eucharist, and I also take into account 1 Corinthians 11, which Saranne772 pointed out.

BlazingHeart
July 16th, 2011, 10:03 AM
Blazingheart, I think you got it backwards. The queue was a traditional Manchu men's hairstyle, and when they conquered the Han Chinese and founded the Qing dynasty (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qing_dynasty), they mandated it for all men under their rule. It started as basically a loyalty test. If you accepted your new rulers, you followed the law and styled your hair like they did. If you were rebellious and refused to shave the front of your head (which, you're right, is against Confucian values), you were obviously a traitor and would be executed. Over the centuries (the Qing dynasty lasted from 1644 to 1912), it just became set in stone.

*facepalm* Should not answer threads like this late at night. Reversing the names of ethnic groups kinda screws up what you're saying. I do actually know which way around it goes, I just...yeah, 1 AM is not a good time for thinky-posts.

Madora
July 16th, 2011, 10:23 AM
@Nastasia and Blazing Heart...

Thank you so much for the reason behind the queque! Very, very interesting!

Now, does anyone know if the Azerbaijani women wear their long braids for religious reasons..or is it for purely folkloric reasons?

I saw a wonderful dance routine (on VHS) by a group of Azerbaijani ladies with the longest braids I've ever seen! It was really something to see their intricate routines, and those black braids flying all about them!

CheekAllison
August 19th, 2012, 07:52 PM
I keep my hair long not because of my religion, but because of my faith. I went through my childhood with hair that came to the top of my ears. I got called a boy when people first met me. And my hair was sooo thick (It still is) that it would stand up and curl all over my head. My mother would blow dry it to straighten it and in turn burn my scalp. (I had sensitive skin as a child)

I began growing my hair out in fifth grade (about eleven years old) just to make my mother angry. My hairdresser talked my mom out of getting it cut so short every time that we came into the shop. I was planning on growing it to about bsl and then getting it cut back to a bob when my mom had gotten over her discontent with my long hair.

I accepted Christ as my Savior in eighth grade and I have since then refused to majorly cut it. It just feels right to me.

PS: My mom still hates it. :)

Arianwen
August 19th, 2012, 08:26 PM
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/Ariansnow/258482_10150977177975872_2115146340_o.jpg

I took this photo of some kids feeding a Golden-Mantled Squirrel in Rocky Mountain National Park...they dressed/looked like Amish but it seemed improbable they were Amish A. they were in a motor vehicle and B. were...in a National park. Were they Mennonites? The boys had what looked like bowl cuts, the girls hair parted in the middle and I believe long braids. The women had hair coverings a la Amish (and with all the wind up there, I was envious!)

wooliswonderful
August 19th, 2012, 08:43 PM
I took this photo of some kids feeding a Golden-Mantled Squirrel in Rocky Mountain National Park...they dressed/looked like Amish but it seemed improbable they were Amish A. they were in a motor vehicle and B. were...in a National park. Were they Mennonites? The boys had what looked like bowl cuts, the girls hair parted in the middle and I believe long braids. The women had hair coverings a la Amish (and with all the wind up there, I was envious!)

I think they could have been Amish. It's my understanding that each Amish community decides whether or not they will use vehicles and under what circumstances. They could have been Mennonites too. My favorite teacher in High School was a Mennonite Pastor. He had a sheep ranch and was very cool. :)

MrsGuther
August 19th, 2012, 09:47 PM
So, I thought it would be a cool idea to have a thread for discussing hairstyles people wear for religious reasons. I don't want this to turn into a debate about the rules themselves, I just want a place where people can ask questions in order to gain better understanding. Kind of a hair trivia thread with a religious bent.

Like, I know that there are many religions where women don't take anything sharp to their hair because uncut hair is a sign of holiness. And other religions where hair is only cut in times of mourning.

I also wonder about the "Pentecostal poof" - a lot of the YouTube videos for Apostolic and Pentecostal hairstyles involve a poofy roll or pompadour in front. Why is this? Is it just because they think it looks good or is there a religious or cultural reason behind it?

So discuss, open-mindedly!
I am Pentecostal. A lot of the women at my church do variations of the poof. We aren't supposed to cut our hair at all, so the poof adds interest in the front since we can't have bangs! Lol

Arianwen
August 19th, 2012, 09:50 PM
I think they could have been Amish. It's my understanding that each Amish community decides whether or not they will use vehicles and under what circumstances. They could have been Mennonites too. My favorite teacher in High School was a Mennonite Pastor. He had a sheep ranch and was very cool. :)

Fascinating! :)

Kaelee
August 19th, 2012, 10:15 PM
That picture is so cute! And a golden mantled squirrel? I'm not sure but I think that's what we refer to around here as a chipmunk! :)

They could be Amish or Mennonite. I've seen both use cars on occasion.

sakuraemily
August 20th, 2012, 06:34 AM
Is that the reason for the poof? Because in the bible some men had long hair, so is that the way to distingish between male and female? But men and women look very from a distance anyway.

Hindu women also have long hair for religious reasons and never wear it loose. I can't remember it presisely, but loose hair symbolises anger. I think it refers to a story in the Ramayana where a lady swears not to braid her hair till she has washed her hair in her enemies blood.

You're wrong. Long hair has nothing much to with Hinduism as a religion. It is a more of a cultural thing in India.
Also, I've never come across this story in the Ramayana. Maybe you can provide a link or something to show me.

Arianwen
August 20th, 2012, 09:21 AM
That picture is so cute! And a golden mantled squirrel? I'm not sure but I think that's what we refer to around here as a chipmunk! :)

They could be Amish or Mennonite. I've seen both use cars on occasion.

There were Chipmunks, as well. Definitely a Golden...at the visitor's centre they had ah, deceased specimens of both. At first blush, I mistook them for chipmunks as well, until I saw the larger and well, slightly different Golden Squirrel as was like "What species is that?!"

eta: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden-mantled_Ground_Squirrel see? Weird, no?

jacqueline101
August 20th, 2012, 09:56 AM
I think religious beliefs vary from perish to perish. I've never heard of the pentecostal poof. I'm baptist.

faithsdaisy421
August 20th, 2012, 10:58 AM
I cover my hair, for religious purposes (to follow the teaching of 1 Corinthians 11). I began doing it on my own, after months of prayer and discussions with my husband. I believe that I am the only person at my church that covers. I feel that my hair should be covered at all times, not just while in church (the reason for this is that the Bible says to "pray without ceasing... and I am called to cover whenever I am in prayer). I strongly believe that Christian women should cover their hair only if they feel called to doing so. I do not believe that I am doing something "right" and that non-covering Christians are doing something "wrong." This just happens to be where I am in my faith.

I am still rather new to the hair covering world. I began in the spring. I also do not believe in cutting length from my hair, but I do cut my bangs.

In2wishin
August 20th, 2012, 11:16 AM
I used to attend a Charismatic church that did believe in the women covering their heads during services and any prayer times or meeting with men present. they did not cover if it was all women. Some did at home when praying with a father or husband but others did not.

As far as hair length went, there was no problem with women cutting their hair as long as they still looked like women and were not wearing a man's haircut. By the same token, men and boys were discouraged from letting their hair grow to the point that they looked like women. There were no strict length rules but generally women had their hair long enough to cover their ears at the shortest.

This was a church that believed strongly in teaching the principles and letting each member figure out how those principles fit into their life.

brave
August 20th, 2012, 11:23 PM
I don't remember where, but I once heard a person explain the poof as well as being fashionable they thought the bigger the better as that extra inch or two makes them taller and therefore that much closer to heaven?
That sounds like a derivative of a Texas joke that gets told a lot: "The higher the hair the closer to God" sort of thing. Not really referencing the poof so much as say, dolly Parton style "big" hair that is stereotypically associated with Texas. I wonder if it's a Pentecostal in joke too?

AutumnLocks
August 21st, 2012, 01:17 PM
Most of the women in my area who go to pentacostal or apostalic churches do that poof thing in the front. As a matter of fact I haven't ever known a woman of that particular sect who didn't have that kind of hairdo.

onlyforhim
August 22nd, 2012, 05:23 AM
I am Muslim. It is not known that Islam forbade the cutting of women's hair atleast not in the book. But the prophet said women could cut their hair but not shave it and a general rule is we shouldn't resemble men and we should also have our own identity that differentiate us from groups who hold other faiths or believes etc...

But Islam does say we are to wear veils to cover our hair in fact it didn't invent it it endorsed it. many men unfortunately take it as a way to dominate women i guess and not to protect her although this is why Islam made it a dutyto wear veils

culture wise (not faith) long hair is considered to be the crown of the woman and women wouldn't cut their hair unless their husbands pass away..this is not the case anymore though..

AutumnLocks
September 7th, 2012, 02:28 PM
Here in WV we have a lot of pentacostal and apostolic churches. Mostly I see a Gibsonish do around here. A big poofy roll alll around and then a very neat bun on top. It looks like there is quite a bit of teasing to get the poof along with lots of hair spray. It's very pretty hair.
I've also heard ladies say...The higher the hair the closer to heaven.

jen5972
September 7th, 2012, 03:20 PM
I actually bought a book on Pentecostal hairstyles, and they tell you how to do the poof! It involved some back-combing, which isn't the best for your hair. Some of the ladies had really beautiful hair though!

Jen
Long hair albums: http://public.fotki.com/jen5972/
Youtube updo videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/JenniferS42394/videos

hermosamendoza
September 7th, 2012, 03:35 PM
I guess the pentecostal women around here don't wear the poof...they usually wear it down in a half pony tale. The only poofs I saw where from LDS (mormon) ladies who would come into the restaurant to eat when I was living in Las Vegas. You could walk all over las vegas and if you saw a pomade (is that what you called it?) People would whisper - look it's a mormon.

moon-flower
January 16th, 2013, 10:26 PM
Haha, I feel bad because this is such an old post and I haven't commented in say...three years. I'm apostolic pentecostal and have observed women hairstyles the last nine years I've been going to church.

The pentecostal poof is mostly when the front hairs where bangs would be, are sectioned off and either teased then smoothed and pushed forward and pinned or when the front hairs that are sectioned off is rolled and tucked under itself and smoothed and pinned to the side. It sort of hard to describe without a picture.

I remember when I first started going, most women pulled it back in a pony tail and had a side part and created the bun (a "messy," bun was common and it looked like it was sort of curled and done while damp) , and then eventually it became the style to poof the front, somewhere around 2005-2008. The reason I think is because when the hair is slicked back and when you take pictures straight on, it looks like you have no hair! My friends would say, ugh, I look like a man, and since men in the apostolic pentecostal church generally have short hair, the poof became more feminine or different looking from their hair. Same reason why some people pull little hairs above their ears to make more soft appearance with wispy hairs around their face.

Also, a very popular look is the bump. It where a bump it would go, but most girls do not use bump its. Some tease their hair, and other just make a pony tail, grab a section and push it up and pin it and hair spray it. I think the vintage revival has a big influence on many girls' hair in the church. That is why we see a lot of pin curls, barrel rolls/jackie-o's, poofs, bums, curls, etc.

And with anywhere, it could be a trend regionally such as some hair styles are more popular on the west coast, Midwest or south. Someone earlier mentioned the poof like a gibson girl and then a top knot, or bun on top of the hair and styled with a head band. This is not common at all in North Dakota, but I've seen a lot of apostolic/pentecostal girls in California wear it or in more urban cities. The Midwest likes barrel rolls, curly buns, messy buns and "donuts."

Of course this all just depends on the individual girl/woman. I have such thin hair nowadays that a poof or bump is harder to do. When I had thicker hair is was easier. Most girls wear their hair up, I think it's for practical reason. What looks good on my sister-in-law, may not look good on me. Even though my avatar shows my hair down I almost never wear it down, because It is easier wearing it up and better for my hair, especially in winter. My avatar is five years old, haha, and way thinner now, so sad.

hairconvictions
January 16th, 2013, 10:37 PM
I am also apostolic pentecostal and I wear the "pouf" for the same reason. If I am going to work or something I just put it up in a braid or something easy but when you go to do a lot of the more fancy and fun styles the top of your hair ends up slicked back and I just don't like the look of it so I like to add the pouf to make it more "pretty" in my opinion. I have also seen people do the pouf with a lot of teasing and hairspray but the church I am in now, most of the ladies just do it with strategic pins so it doesn't harm the hair! I think it looks a lot better than with the teasing!

On a related note, I'll just add in my unassuming two cents in regards to religion.
As an Apostolic Pentecost, I don't cut my hair at all (1 Cor 11), but I also don't leave it down unless I am home alone or with my husband. The Bible doesn't teach that it's necessary to keep it pinned up but the church leaders in my area (including my pastor) believe it's more modest to have your hair kept up in public and I've grown rather fond of the idea. I've only been here in this district for 6 months but now if my hair is down and I go outside to, let's say, take the garbage out or something I feel very naked with my hair down! Lol It also makes having my hair down that much more awesome when I get home. It definitely gives that "I'm no longer at work" feel. :)

Vrindi
January 17th, 2013, 03:01 PM
I am a devotee of Krishna (a Hare Krishna, for those who are unfamiliar with the term Vaishnava), so that falls under Hinduism. Although SO MUCH falls under Hinduism— it's such a broad term. I lived in India for a short time, and although I'm not Indian-bodied (I'm of Irish heritage), I do blend some of the Indian customs into my life, although I try to live as Vedic a lifestyle as possible in modern society. Keep in mind that Indian and Vedic customs are not synonymous. Indian culture has changed along with every other culture over time, so it doesn't always reflect the Vedic scriptures. In some places, long hair is the thing. In others, women style their hair however they like. I found that to be the case most of the time. When I'm in a temple in the states, depending on the congregation, it doesn't matter if my hair is down and loose. In other places, it's best to braid it or tie it back, and have a dupatta (shawl) draped over it. I do not like rules that ask me to cover my hair because of shame, or anything of the sort. I don't believe I should be ashamed of my hair, or that it is shameful to want to look nice, or that being a woman is shameful in any way. I reject that notion entirely. But, a temple is a monastic environment. There are brahmacharis who are trying to live a celibate lifestyle and focus only on the Lord. Anyone who has ever tried to be celibate for any amount of time knows that no matter how devoted you are, this can be [I]very difficult. [I] Out of respect, I dress modestly (although saris are always beautiful and elegant) and will cover my hair. Never for shame, always for respect. My fashion inspiration comes from the gopis (cowherd maidens of Vrindavana,) who are always depicted with long, beautiful hair. It is not any kind of rule. I dress how I feel comfortable, and I try to always be respectful.

The shika— the shaved head with a tuft left long in back worn by many men— is a symbol of renunciation. It is usually worn by students, or men who have taken or are taking initiation under a spiritual master. It is not required otherwise, at least not across the board. It is also used for cleanliness, as hygiene is very important.

firegypsy
January 17th, 2013, 05:07 PM
I love this thread.

Thanks to all who have contributed. I have covered in the past (as a Christian) but mostly for Mass. There have been days that I have felt especially open where I cover if I'm out of my house, but that's not a "rule" I have or anything. It's just something I've been called to do. In a similar vein I don't wear my hair down out of my house. It is for husband alone to see. Again, my religion doesn't demand this, but I'm not alone in my observance either.

LongCurlyTress
March 14th, 2016, 09:54 PM
Just was googling Parousia, the musical group- http://www.parousiaband.com/long-hair

and Pentecostal hairstyles and this old LHC forum thread appeared so I thought I would post to reactivate it. I am loving the reasoning for growing long hair for religious reasons. I also found this video regarding not cutting hair for religious reasons and appreciate her thoughts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6R6q0rSha6o

Beatrixity
March 15th, 2016, 12:26 AM
I found this article on the spiritual beliefs of Native Americans in regards to hair to be very informative and beautifully written:

http://www.whitewolfpack.com/2013/08/elders-talk-about-significance-of-long.html

LongCurlyTress
March 15th, 2016, 06:38 AM
I found this article on the spiritual beliefs of Native Americans in regards to hair to be very informative and beautifully written:

http://www.whitewolfpack.com/2013/08/elders-talk-about-significance-of-long.html

Such a beautiful article along with great informational videos! Thank you so much for posting this!! :blossom:

Beatrixity
March 15th, 2016, 11:34 AM
You're welcome, I'm glad you enjoyed it. :flower:

irodaryne
March 15th, 2016, 12:17 PM
I found this article on the spiritual beliefs of Native Americans in regards to hair to be very informative and beautifully written:

http://www.whitewolfpack.com/2013/08/elders-talk-about-significance-of-long.html

I guess my question is.... Which specific Native American cultures and religions are they talking about? They make it sound like all Native Americans were one monolithic culture, but really there were hundreds and hundreds of them, all with different religions, beliefs, cultures, practices, etc.

LongCurlyTress
March 15th, 2016, 03:08 PM
I guess my question is.... Which specific Native American cultures and religions are they talking about? They make it sound like all Native Americans were one monolithic culture, but really there were hundreds and hundreds of them, all with different religions, beliefs, cultures, practices, etc.

They mention the name of the American Indian tribe in the videos. I watched each of them, but can't remember the name. Sorry!

Alun
March 15th, 2016, 07:27 PM
Nobody responded to my post in this thread, so obviously I need to ask outright. About the pentecostal minister that I once knew. Would the church have considered it a problem or a lapse in doctrine that he grew his hair in a semi-long style? It was only a couple of inches over the collar, but brushed straight back and cut to all one length. His hair was completely white, although he was not all that old, not that this makes any real difference.

Sarahlabyrinth
March 15th, 2016, 08:06 PM
Nobody responded to my post in this thread, so obviously I need to ask outright. About the pentecostal minister that I once knew. Would the church have considered it a problem or a lapse in doctrine that he grew his hair in a semi-long style? It was only a couple of inches over the collar, but brushed straight back and cut to all one length. His hair was completely white, although he was not all that old, not that this makes any real difference.

Alun, I wouldn't have thought so.

LongCurlyTress
March 16th, 2016, 09:37 AM
Nobody responded to my post in this thread, so obviously I need to ask outright. About the pentecostal minister that I once knew. Would the church have considered it a problem or a lapse in doctrine that he grew his hair in a semi-long style? It was only a couple of inches over the collar, but brushed straight back and cut to all one length. His hair was completely white, although he was not all that old, not that this makes any real difference.

Seems to me that it all depends on whether the person follows the bible verbatim or not. It does specifically say that men should keep their hair cut short, so I dunno.... I am always one for doing whatever makes you happy! So, if having a semi-long style makes him feel blessed, then why not go for it?

I have always been amazed how each religion thinks emphatically that they are doing things the right way, and everyone else is beneath them or wrong for doing whatever it is that they are doing if it is different than what they are getting told to do by "their bible". I guess that the most important thing is that we are each making ourselves happy with our own decisions. I have never been one to follow any imposed doctrine, however, I do enjoy the ones that encourage my personal thoughts and beliefs. ;) Ie.. How the American Indians in the passages below encourage both men and women to grow their hair long... ;) My religion states....quote from the 60's somewhere... "Do whatever it is that makes you happy, as long as you don't hurt anyone." :D

Doom
March 16th, 2016, 05:34 PM
I found this article on the spiritual beliefs of Native Americans in regards to hair to be very informative and beautifully written:

http://www.whitewolfpack.com/2013/08/elders-talk-about-significance-of-long.html
I don't know how much of that is true, but there's one thing that simply cannot be true.


You were given a sacred color of hair to wear and you were never to bleach (whiten) or dye your hair. Even the word dye/die when used for coloring states the death or divination of a God-given thought and purpose.
Uh, excuse me? "Die" and "dye" are English homophones. What do they have to do with the traditions of people who spoke completely different languages when those traditions were born? And more important: if something is false, how can we trust the rest to be true?

rhosyn_du
March 16th, 2016, 06:06 PM
Nobody responded to my post in this thread, so obviously I need to ask outright. About the pentecostal minister that I once knew. Would the church have considered it a problem or a lapse in doctrine that he grew his hair in a semi-long style? It was only a couple of inches over the collar, but brushed straight back and cut to all one length. His hair was completely white, although he was not all that old, not that this makes any real difference.

I can't speak to pentacostal ministers specifically, but where and when I grew up, that was basically the style for ministers at all "Bible believing" churches. I also would never have thought to consider it long. If it doesn't go past the shoulders in back or cover the ears, it codes as a short men's style to me.

Alun
March 17th, 2016, 09:51 PM
I can't speak to pentacostal ministers specifically, but where and when I grew up, that was basically the style for ministers at all "Bible believing" churches. I also would never have thought to consider it long. If it doesn't go past the shoulders in back or cover the ears, it codes as a short men's style to me.

Interesting. I didn't attend church atall. When I was a child in the 50s and early 60s the default style for men in England was the 'short back and sides' where clippers were used at the back and sides of the head, but the hair was grown several inches long on top. I had a fringe (bangs) and had hair cut short at the back and sides, but not clipped, so I basically had the early Beatles cut before they did. Of course, the teddy boys (pharoahs) had a DA (pompadour, DA means duck's arse, or duck's ass to you).

That's all by the by. My real point is that in England at one time anything over the collar was considered long. Of course, by the 70s everyone had 'long' hair by that standard, but it was still unusual to see a priest with long hair, even including hair over the collar, although by the 80s when I met this guy my own hair was half way down my back. At the same time, crew cuts were unknown there before the 90s, with the exception only of neo-Nazis and Americans (not equating the two, LOL!).

To further muddy the issue, I never knowingly saw any other Pentecostal of either gender (saving perhaps some women on this board), and although we were in England this Pentecostal minister was Irish. Pentecostals are rarer than hen's teeth in the British Isles, but it sounds like his haircut may have been normal for a Pentecostal minister, although perhaps a little long for that time for a priest in any of the denominations common there. How an Irishman from the Republic, which has over 90% Catholics, even came to be Pentecostal, much less an actual minister, is a mystery in itself. And no, he didn't have a church, he spent most of his time visiting other ministers in third world countries, usually in Africa.

luxurioushair
March 18th, 2016, 06:20 AM
The Bible says long hair is a glory to a woman. It doesn't say "NEVER CUT YOUR HAIR" though.

languagenut
March 18th, 2016, 11:55 AM
We (Orthodox Presbyterians) believe in the inerrancy of Scripture, including the part about hair. But the Bible, while it says long hair is the glory of the woman and not of the man, never specifies a particular length as long or short. My oldest brother has a more-or-less shoulder length '80s-style mullet, and some in our church occasionally voice their disapproval of his "long" hair. But my mom always defends him and says that's not long hair, and certainly not a woman's style. Meanwhile quite a few of the women have hair that couldn't be described as anything but short, but nobody bats an eye. A little inconsistent, I'd say, but no concern of mine.

chen bao jun
March 18th, 2016, 01:56 PM
Yes, I was going to say the same thing. The Bible says long hair is the glory of the women but doesn't say men have to have short hair. In the cultures of the time (it's a long period of course) only the Romans (male) would have had short hair in the modern American/European sense, in the New Testament period.

Christians are lot less fussy about things like that, in general, than the mainstream media would make out. There are some groups where things like this might be made into an issue, but policing people's hair length, male or female would not be an important thing to Christians and it certainly is not addressed in actual Christian doctrine. People also get confused, I think and get the impression that the social norms of an area have something to do with the church, when they don't, if that makes sense. Cultural things. People in general are good at confusing their culture with 'the truth'.

Alun
March 18th, 2016, 02:15 PM
Well, again, I'm an atheist, so wouldn't be bound by anybody's religious interpretation, but I think Paul said both that women should have long hair (the glory quote) and that long hair was a shame to men. One important thing to bear in mind about that is that Paul was a Roman himself (a reformed tax collector - we should urge anyone who works for the IRS to repent the error of their ways!), and that even if this appears in the Bible it reflects Paul's own personal cultural prejudices and not anything profound.

And of course the definition of long hair has varied considerably. In the early modern period they believed that women should have longer hair than men, but this largely meant that male hair was on the long side of shoulder length whilst women never cut their hair atall. I think they believed that this complied with Paul, because they viewed shoulder length as short. Of course, Paul probably had in mind more what we would call a caesar cut for men (collar length, ears showing and fringe, aka bangs).

Purely academic to me, anyway.

Kherome
March 18th, 2016, 02:53 PM
I would assume that long hair back then was perhaps shorter than our version of long hair today...given the way it must have been cared for in those times. I mean, we have people here who care for their hair like it's a beloved pet and they still struggle to reach much beyond waist.

Kherome
March 18th, 2016, 02:57 PM
Also, if I am not mistaken slaves/servants wore short or shaved off hair, so I would think a man of good standing would be expected to have enough hair to differentiate between himself and a slave. So I suspect short hair for men was something like what we'd consider medium/long today like you see on the church paintings of Jesus. The Bible mentions something like it is a shame to be "shorn" so...

languagenut
March 18th, 2016, 05:07 PM
Well, again, I'm an atheist, so wouldn't be bound by anybody's religious interpretation, but I think Paul said both that women should have long hair (the glory quote) and that long hair was a shame to men. One important thing to bear in mind about that is that Paul was a Roman himself (a reformed tax collector - we should urge anyone who works for the IRS to repent the error of their ways!), and that even if this appears in the Bible it reflects Paul's own personal cultural prejudices and not anything profound.


Well, actually that was Matthew; Paul was, in his words, "a Hebrew of the Hebrews", and before his conversion was a Pharisee who presumably despised Romans and tax collectors as much as any of the other Pharisees.

Don't know if that's important to this thread or not. :shrug:

chen bao jun
March 18th, 2016, 05:25 PM
1 corinthians chapter 11 is the chapter you are referring to
It says not a thing about men's hair length. It says about men only that they ought not to COVER their heads when worshipping (and when men wore hats, which was in my lifetime, they would remove them in church.

This was because the pagan Roman priests covered THEIR heads when sacrificing.

As for slaves at that period having shaved or shorter hair, that is not true. Slaves were in all aspects of Roman life-- everything from household servants to gladiators to hairdressers to literate secretaries and teachers. If they were barbarians from Northern Europe (modern day Germans, Britons), they would very likely to have long hair, as Romans did not. Of course, if they were civilized Greeks, they would have short hair--like the Romans.

Why would you think Paul was a tax collector? Paul was a Jew, and a Pharisee, that is a Jewish religious person before his conversion. His trade was making tents. He was a Roman citizen, true (which is why he had certain rights, and had to be tried (as in court) in a different way than non-Roman citizens). But a Roman citizen, like an American citizen, could be any ethnicity by that time. It was not necessarily an Italian--Roman citizens could be from the provinces in Gaul (current day France), Africa (modern day Tunisia) and later from REALLY far off places--like Britain, the absolute edge of the world at that time.

Typical extremely upper class Roman male appearance at this time-- (this is Caesar Augustus about 40 years earlier but styles had not changed)
http://antipas.net/emperor/augustus2c.jpg
Ara Pacis Augustae (altar to Augustus' peace) frieze of Aeneas sacrificing as high priest--note the covered head. Aeneas has somewhat longer hair and a full beard because he is a historical figure AT THIS TIME. They are showing he is not contemporary but some 800-900 years in the past with the different hairstyle and full beard
http://cdm.reed.edu/cdm4/extensions/full_size.php?CISOROOT=/arapacis&CISOPTR=2317

Here is a brief biography of Paul. Its from Beliefnet, because in this case the wikipedia article on him is extremely dense and theological and the beliefnet article just gives some very basic facts, all non-disputed. You can surf the web for more information. he is rather an extremely iimportant figure in world history and thought, besides his religious importance and it would definitely not be a bad thing, even for an atheist, to have a clear idea what he actually was about.

I'm not snagging on atheists, by the way. I was a very confirmed atheist myself for about 15 years of my life (why I'm not one now is a long story and not very appropriate for these boards) and even if I hadn't been, I respect everyone's right to believe as they choose (as indeed, does God). However, it's certainly useful to know exactly what it is that you are not believing, if you know what I mean. :)
http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/Christianity/2004/04/Paul-Faqs.aspx?p=1

chen bao jun
March 18th, 2016, 05:54 PM
The article (and most of the articles you will find) unfortunately will not give you much idea of the interesting life Paul led, which reads like a novel if you can find the book of Acts (the main original source) in a good contemporary translation. Everything happened to the man, --shipwrecks, jail, being lowered out of a city at night in a basket, meeting with some of the most important political people in his society and disputing with them, world travels, being taken for a god when he was bitten by a snake and did not die--and much more. Though it all he retained a very level head and the ability to talk to people great and small, to give very good advice and just to be a decent human being. AFter his conversion, of course. Before his conversion he was an intolerant nasty person able to watch people stoned to death because they did not agree with him and able to actually rush to start persecutions that would see men, women and even children beaten and jailed and mistreated.

And he had, of course, one of THE spectacular conversions of all time. God does not usually convert people by striking them down, talking to them personally and striking them (temporarily) blind. it sounds like a crazy person's tale of what happened to make them crazy--except that he was not crazy afterwards, but clear-thinking, well-read and intelligent and much more reasonable than he had been before. Just the fact that he was able to convince the people that he had been persecuting and watching killed just the day before that he was now one of them--well--

By the way, he almost certainly had long hair as well as a beard. As I said, besides being a Roman citizen, he was a Jew and that was their way of hairstyling at the time. Thus EXTREMELY unlikely to tell men that they could not have long hair. Which he did not.

Everything Paul did and said, by the way, contrary to popular report, was along the lines of making Christianity less rule bound, less strict and less concerned with following rules and more concerned with being changed by faith, not rules. He was the person who made it possible for non-Jewish people, not used to following very strict laws find Christianity appealing as a faith--which is why he is called the Apostle to the Gentiles. A lot of the trouble he got into (beatings, jail, etc) was from people who were upset because they thought he was so lax and not upholding standards anymore at all and he also argued with other Christians who were more strict about the teeny little things (foods you should eat, whether you had to be circumdcized when you converted or not). He did not believe in freedom to commit sin, of course--but he thought that people could be changed, as he had been changed, by belief in Christ rather than by a lot of rigidity and punishments. But I am straying too much into theology here and not into hairstyles. Sorry. Look into it yourself and see what you think; but only if you want.

meteor
March 18th, 2016, 07:53 PM
Interesting stuff! :D

You guys seem to be very knowledgeable about this! :D
I'm wondering: are there any religious groups today, maybe within the Abrahamic religions or other religions, that don't cut their hair at all, maybe following something like the so-called "Nazarite vow/oath" (Numbers 6:5 (http://biblehub.com/numbers/6-5.htm)) (e.g. like Samson - Judges 13:5 (http://biblehub.com/judges/13-5.htm) - or Samuel - 1 Samuel 1:11 (http://biblehub.com/1_samuel/1-11.htm)) ? From what I've read, the choice of dreadlocks in the Rastafari movement might have been influenced by that in part? :hmm:

The only religious group I know that explicitly prohibits all hair cutting is Sikhism (their practice of "Kesh" or "Kes") and also some holy men (e.g. some Sadhus and Sadhvis), but maybe there are/were others that I'm just not aware of? :hmm:
Thank you! :blossom:

chen bao jun
March 18th, 2016, 09:01 PM
Other than Amish women and some kinds of Pentecostals, i don't know of any, but maybe someone else does.

The Amish also believe you should completely cover your never cut hair.

Interesting story, I once went to a hairdresser, back in the days when I did who refused to give me a trim. (Okay, yeah, I was a different person back in those days.)We had been chatting while I was in the chair and I said I was a Christian and she said, then she couldn't trim my hair, because Christian women are not supposed to ever trim their hair and so she couldn't help me to commit this sin (i.e. haircutting)

It was--different.

She was a recent convert, clearly to something like Pentecostal.

Wonder if she changed careers--or just never asked people if they were Christians before taking up the scissors.
Nice lady otherwise, very polite and soft-spoken and one of the few who didn't burn my head using overly strong relaxer. But I never went to her again. On the principle that a hair dresser should --um, do what the customer wants.

AZDesertRose
March 18th, 2016, 09:08 PM
Um. Yeah. If your religious beliefs prevent you from doing something that is integral to a certain profession, maybe, just maybe, you should go into another line of work.

LongCurlyTress
March 19th, 2016, 08:14 AM
I just found these and thought this info applies to our convo here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaving_in_Judaism

https://www.openbible.info/topics/men_cutting_their_hair

meteor
March 19th, 2016, 12:30 PM
^ Interesting stuff, LongCurlyTress! :D

Thanks a lot, chen bao jun! :D Very interesting about that hairdresser. So many different ideas there... I think people often add (voluntarily or not) personal twists, social norms and new interpretations/texts on top of the same old scriptures, and (especially if they are insulated for long enough to solidify the tradition) that's often how different religious groups can become so very different from each other, maybe... kind of like that tichel vs. sheitel separation within the same religion for the exact same purpose of hiding hair after marriage...

LongCurlyTress
March 19th, 2016, 08:24 PM
@ chen bao jun... I must have missed your comment below re the Christian hairdresser who refused to cut your hair since she didn't want you to commit a sin. I actually like that attitude...lol.... but I can see how it would be annoying since you did go there for a haircut!!

@ meteor... Orthodox Jewish married women wear the tichel for modesty after marriage, but they also wear beautiful wigs too which also serve as modesty. Many like their wigs better than their own hair I was told when I lived in Israel for 6 months back in 1985! Hassidic women shave their heads (not all do this) to show respect, remember and honor the women who back in Russia were raped during the Jewish village pogroms in the late 1800s and early 1900s in Czarist Russia. Back then, the Russian Jewish women shaved their heads sadly so they would not be attractive to the Cossack soldiers and hopefully avoid getting raped by them. https://www.google.com/search?sclien...msg=NCSR&noj=1 (https://www.google.com/search?sclient=psy-ab&site=&source=hp&q=hassicdic+women+++in+russia+shaving+their+heads&oq=hassicdic+women+++in+russia+shaving+their+heads&gs_l=hp.3...49.17368.0.17474.31.14.0.0.0.0.6709.13 515.5-2j9-2.4.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..27.3.7785.p9HtG9lSW18&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.&bvm=bv.117218890,d.cGc&biw=1349&bih=610&dpr=1&ech=1&psi=FQnuVqORN5P2jwOwx6DYBQ.1458440492755.4&ei=FQnuVqORN5P2jwOwx6DYBQ&emsg=NCSR&noj=1)

rosey4exclaim
April 3rd, 2016, 10:01 PM
Ooh, this is a very interesting thread. Recently, I came across this article on hair length and Wiccan/Pagan spiritual practice: http://paganwiccan.about.com/od/faq/f/Hair-Length-and-Religion.htm.

Personally, I keep my hair long because it makes me feel more spiritual and in touch with the divine. I feel that if I cut it above my shoulders, I would feel raw and exposed somehow. Also, I keep it bound most of the time because it helps me feel more grounded, and I take it down during ritual to let the energy flow freely. This is all very intuitive, of course, and I have no explanations for it or solid beliefs to base it on. I would also never require this of others; I see spiritual practice as very personal and not to be imposed on others, even if I was the "high priestess" of a coven.

irodaryne
April 3rd, 2016, 10:44 PM
Ooh, this is a very interesting thread. Recently, I came across this article on hair length and Wiccan/Pagan spiritual practice: http://paganwiccan.about.com/od/faq/f/Hair-Length-and-Religion.htm.

Personally, I keep my hair long because it makes me feel more spiritual and in touch with the divine. I feel that if I cut it above my shoulders, I would feel raw and exposed somehow. Also, I keep it bound most of the time because it helps me feel more grounded, and I take it down during ritual to let the energy flow freely. This is all very intuitive, of course, and I have no explanations for it or solid beliefs to base it on. I would also never require this of others; I see spiritual practice as very personal and not to be imposed on others, even if I was the "high priestess" of a coven.

Interesting article. As someone who attends outercourt with a Gardnerian coven, I can tell you that rules will vary from coven to coven. My High Priestess has very, very short hair (maybe half an inch, though she used to have it around TBL when she was younger), and of the women in my coven I think the longest I've seen is a tad above APL. However, my High Priest and Priestess did explain that it is considered a tradition for women to have their hair "long and loose." Though there is by no means a requirement to wear one's hair long, in circle we are asked to have it loose. It's because hair is seen as an extension of one's self and to bind one's hair is to bind one's energy.

A part of my desire for long hair is due to spiritual reasons. It's two-fold. One is in relation to my Goddess, as well as with my ongoing path with (Gardnerian) Wicca. Interestingly enough, both relate to the power that can be held in one's hair as well as ties to femininity and my strength as a woman (though this applies to me and me alone. Results for others will vary, obviously). I can definitely say that as my hair grows longer, I certainly feel it affecting the strength of my magic, as well as my presence in ritual. And honestly? Having my hair be healthy seems to make quite a difference, too.

I've also been feeling the pull to have my hair bound in some way when not in ritual or doing magic, so it's interesting to see someone else get that pull.

LadyArwen
May 21st, 2018, 01:59 PM
Resurrecting this thread out of interest...

Part of me thought that the woman who anointed the feet of Jesus must have had beautiful hair, and long hair made me feel/think about that bible story. In my church, there is no requirement to have long hair, we look at it as a topic of freedom and preference.

The bible does say that a woman's hair is her crowning glory...so I wanted to try that out and see if it was true. Martin Luther also said that "hair is the richest ornament of women". That makes me feel so good to think of hair as a crown :) like a princess

Norman
May 22nd, 2018, 04:00 AM
I remember seeing a video at Youtube of a Pentecostal service showing a woman with ankle length hair holding her hair up to God s she sang. Was this a one off occurrence or do Pentecostals practice this regularly ?

Sarahlabyrinth
May 22nd, 2018, 04:07 AM
I remember seeing a video at Youtube of a Pentecostal service showing a woman with ankle length hair holding her hair up to God s she sang. Was this a one off occurrence or do Pentecostals practice this regularly ?

As far as I know it's not a usual thing. I used to attend a Pentecostal church and none of the women there had very long hair, nor did they hold it up to God. No reason why they couldn't if they wanted to, of course.

Sarahlabyrinth
June 22nd, 2018, 08:45 PM
I have in the last few days been studying 1 Corinthians 11. I conclude from it that Christian women should cover their hair when praying or prophesying. )I know there is the debate about a woman's hair being given to her for a covering, but Paul uses two different words in the original Greek - one word for a woman's hair being a covering, and another word meaning to cover with cloth when he speaks of women covering or uncovering their heads.)

I haven't bought anything specific to use as a covering but I have been putting on a scarf in the meantime :)

https://i.imgur.com/fNIUyDS.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/yHISbd9.jpg

I guess it's necessary because it's a sign to the angels? I don't know why it's a sign to the angels unless it's to show them that we do this to honour God's glory at these times rather than displaying our own glory and that we submit to the way He has created the hierarchy - God, Jesus, man, woman.

So do any of you Christian ladies cover your heads for prayer? Do you do it even just for saying Grace before meals? Do you just cover at certain times, or always (since we are told to pray without ceasing)?

And getting back to hair specifically, would it keep the hair healthier to have it covered? I have been covering at home for the last few days. It feels good, to be honest, to know that it is a way I can honour God and the way He has created us. I feel that for me it would be easier to just cover all the time, since I never know when I might want to pray.

What coverings do you use? Do you have a photo?

Lastly, I feel that the decision to cover is an individual thing, between each individual person and God. Though it is important to study Scripture, to find the truth of these things. I feel that since Christ died for me, it's a very small thing I can do to honour Him in return....

The church I go to doesn't speak of this, and nobody covers there...

AmaryllisRed
June 22nd, 2018, 10:27 PM
All very interesting, Sarah.
I have always read that as the hair IS the covering (v. 15, "for her hair is given to her as a covering") but other verses make it seem like there is to be a separate covering other than the hair itself.
I'm assuming this is the source for the Amish ladies who wear bonnets. I have heard of some Jewish women who wear head coverings or wigs always, but this being NT I'm not sure if their reasoning comes from these verses or elsewhere.
My church does not really address this at all but we did have one woman who wore a small head covering, just like a small black circle she pinned to her bun.
A lot of women wear long hair.
I do agree that it has to be a personal thing.
Very interesting point about how we are to "pray without ceasing." It would be hard to have a covering that you have to constantly put on and take off if you're praying constantly or almost. I know I pray a lot when I'm driving... can you imagine? Let me pull over so I can put on my covering. Of course there are lots of things the Bible tells us to do that are not easy or practical. :)
Anyway, I've rambled on long enough. For now, I think of my hair as my covering. You've brought up some interesting points and I'm curious to see what others have to say. :)

Bookprincess
June 22nd, 2018, 11:21 PM
I have in the last few days been studying 1 Corinthians 11. I conclude from it that Christian women should cover their hair when praying or prophesying. )I know there is the debate about a woman's hair being given to her for a covering, but Paul uses two different words in the original Greek - one word for a woman's hair being a covering, and another word meaning to cover with cloth when he speaks of women covering or uncovering their heads.)

I haven't bought anything specific to use as a covering but I have been putting on a scarf in the meantime :)

https://i.imgur.com/fNIUyDS.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/yHISbd9.jpg

I guess it's necessary because it's a sign to the angels? I don't know why it's a sign to the angels unless it's to show them that we do this to honour God's glory at these times rather than displaying our own glory and that we submit to the way He has created the hierarchy - God, Jesus, man, woman.

So do any of you Christian ladies cover your heads for prayer? Do you do it even just for saying Grace before meals? Do you just cover at certain times, or always (since we are told to pray without ceasing)?

And getting back to hair specifically, would it keep the hair healthier to have it covered? I have been covering at home for the last few days. It feels good, to be honest, to know that it is a way I can honour God and the way He has created us. I feel that for me it would be easier to just cover all the time, since I never know when I might want to pray.

What coverings do you use? Do you have a photo?

Lastly, I feel that the decision to cover is an individual thing, between each individual person and God. Though it is important to study Scripture, to find the truth of these things. I feel that since Christ died for me, it's a very small thing I can do to honour Him in return....

The church I go to doesn't speak of this, and nobody covers there...

Hi! I'm not a Christian, but I also cover my hair for religious reasons! :) I love your wrap! Actually scarves work the best for head coverings, I have found, because there are so many tutorials on YouTube for how to wrap regular rectangular scarves on one's head. I wrap the scarf around my chest, neck, and back as well but there are lots of "turban" tutorials there that look like the style you are going for! So maybe you can check them out.

I really prefer to wear it as little as possible (only outside the home) because I find that it can cause breakage at the part where my bun/braid starts, which is really annoying me. I guess this could be reduced if I only used silk or satin scarves, but I already have like 80+ scarves and don't feel like replacing them. I also have a fear of my hair falling out as a result of being covered and "trapped" like those construction workers who go bald!

Otherwise, the coverings can protect hair from environmental damage like wind and sun. My actual ends don't have any split ends as a result of covering. The hair really does get darker though!

xsampa
June 23rd, 2018, 12:03 AM
In some interpretations of Islam, women are required to grow their hair out to BSL or longer to cover the awrah, or the intimate parts, for when they are buried to prevent immodesty. I found this on Wikipedia, but the Wiki itself doesn’t provide any source, so is this accurate?

Bookprincess
June 23rd, 2018, 12:58 AM
In some interpretations of Islam, women are required to grow their hair out to BSL or longer to cover the awrah, or the intimate parts, for when they are buried to prevent immodesty. I found this on Wikipedia, but the Wiki itself doesn’t provide any source, so is this accurate?

Muslim women can have their hair at any length they like :) We just can't shave it off completely. What covers the awrah at the time of burial is a white sheet from head to toe, so long hair isn't necessary for that at all. I wonder why that Wiki article said that? It might be because it's recommended to put the hair of the deceased woman in three braids after ritual washing of the body but I don't think that necessarily indicates that the hair must be BSL or longer.

xsampa
June 23rd, 2018, 01:04 AM
Muslim women can have their hair at any length they like :) We just can't shave it off completely. What covers the awrah at the time of burial is a white sheet from head to toe, so long hair isn't necessary for that at all. I wonder why that Wiki article said that? It might be because it's recommended to put the hair of the deceased woman in three braids after ritual washing of the body but I don't think that necessarily indicates that the hair must be BSL or longer.
The braiding of the hair is an interesting practice.

Sarahlabyrinth
June 23rd, 2018, 01:06 AM
All very interesting, Sarah.
I have always read that as the hair IS the covering (v. 15, "for her hair is given to her as a covering") but other verses make it seem like there is to be a separate covering other than the hair itself.
I'm assuming this is the source for the Amish ladies who wear bonnets. I have heard of some Jewish women who wear head coverings or wigs always, but this being NT I'm not sure if their reasoning comes from these verses or elsewhere.
My church does not really address this at all but we did have one woman who wore a small head covering, just like a small black circle she pinned to her bun.
A lot of women wear long hair.
I do agree that it has to be a personal thing.
Very interesting point about how we are to "pray without ceasing." It would be hard to have a covering that you have to constantly put on and take off if you're praying constantly or almost. I know I pray a lot when I'm driving... can you imagine? Let me pull over so I can put on my covering. Of course there are lots of things the Bible tells us to do that are not easy or practical. :)
Anyway, I've rambled on long enough. For now, I think of my hair as my covering. You've brought up some interesting points and I'm curious to see what others have to say. :)

I used to think of my hair as being the covering too. But then when you think about it, if you think of the hair being the covering, then the verse would have the meaning "Yes, if she refuses to cover her head (with hair), she should cut off all her hair. (verse 6) which doesn't seem to make sense if he is referring to the hair being the covering, but if he is meaning a head covering which can be taken on or off, it does make sense. Because you can't take your hair on or off.

My New International Version Bible does refer to it as wearing a head covering. And goes on to say in verses 9 and 10 "And man was not made for woman, but woman was made for man. For this reason, and because the angels are watching, a woman should wear a covering on her head to show she is under authority.

He explains that Christ is the head of (ie the one who has authority over) man, and man is the head of woman. If a woman prays with her head uncovered she is dishonouring her head, or the man (and by implication, Christ, and God also). So the head covering is a symbol of the woman accepting her place in creation and also is a sign for the angels. It does not mean that she is inferior or unequal to men, at all.

I find it a most interesting topic :) Actually when you think about it, Christian women have always covered their heads in church up until last century, which coincided with a rise in the feminist movement. Is there a link between this and women dropping the practice? I don't know. :)

Sarahlabyrinth
June 23rd, 2018, 01:12 AM
Hi! I'm not a Christian, but I also cover my hair for religious reasons! :) I love your wrap! Actually scarves work the best for head coverings, I have found, because there are so many tutorials on YouTube for how to wrap regular rectangular scarves on one's head. I wrap the scarf around my chest, neck, and back as well but there are lots of "turban" tutorials there that look like the style you are going for! So maybe you can check them out.

I really prefer to wear it as little as possible (only outside the home) because I find that it can cause breakage at the part where my bun/braid starts, which is really annoying me. I guess this could be reduced if I only used silk or satin scarves, but I already have like 80+ scarves and don't feel like replacing them. I also have a fear of my hair falling out as a result of being covered and "trapped" like those construction workers who go bald!

Otherwise, the coverings can protect hair from environmental damage like wind and sun. My actual ends don't have any split ends as a result of covering. The hair really does get darker though!

I have watched various You Tube tutorials on how to tie/wrap scarves and there are so many interesting ways to do it. I don't like the bulkiness of the large scarves though, so have just ordered three triangular scarves from mydesertdeals on Etsy.

Do you enclose your buns and braids within your covering? Because I can't see how you would get damage from that if you did.

Bookprincess
June 23rd, 2018, 02:02 AM
I have watched various You Tube tutorials on how to tie/wrap scarves and there are so many interesting ways to do it. I don't like the bulkiness of the large scarves though, so have just ordered three triangular scarves from mydesertdeals on Etsy.

Do you enclose your buns and braids within your covering? Because I can't see how you would get damage from that if you did.

I think there are also tutorials for square scarves but I'm not too sure. I've seen some really interesting illustrations of medieval Christian women with covered hair and admire their variety of styles, although many of them are very rare today (like the wimple).

I'm not sure what you mean by "enclose," but if you mean putting all my hair inside the scarf, I do that :) I think just the friction of the scarf with the top of my head kind of pulls the hair from the style and rips it? I don't really feel it and I'm not sure it it's the scarf that causes the breakage (I doubt the friction is that intense), or something else entirely.

Sarahlabyrinth
June 23rd, 2018, 03:35 AM
If your bun is inside the scarf then I can't think how you would get breakage there unless the scarf was rubbing on the bun and causing friction damage, maybe?

xsampa
June 23rd, 2018, 05:56 AM
@Sarahlabyrinth: Do you grow your hair out for religious reasons, btw?

Sarahlabyrinth
June 23rd, 2018, 05:59 AM
@Sarahlabyrinth: Do you grow your hair out for religious reasons, btw?

No, I grow it just because I like to have long hair :) But I am glad that it is called my "glory" and I am very grateful that I have it :)

xsampa
June 23rd, 2018, 07:02 AM
@Nastasia and Blazing Heart...

Thank you so much for the reason behind the queque! Very, very interesting!

Now, does anyone know if the Azerbaijani women wear their long braids for religious reasons..or is it for purely folkloric reasons?

I saw a wonderful dance routine (on VHS) by a group of Azerbaijani ladies with the longest braids I've ever seen! It was really something to see their intricate routines, and those black braids flying all about them!

The hair is for cultural reasons. Women in Central Asian countries tend to grow their hair out and braid it.

AmaryllisRed
June 23rd, 2018, 07:40 AM
Maybe verse 6 just means if you're not going to have long hair, you might as well just shave your head because short hair on a woman is pointless?
I really don't know. Some of the verses definitely seem to suggest that we should have a separate covering.
But it's weird that we should have long hair but we should cover it when we pray, which should be *always*. How can it be our glory if no one ever sees it? Or is it just that we know we have it and God knows and that's all that matters?
It makes me wonder because no one I know actually wears a head covering. And lots of Christian women I know have very short hair.
Are they ignoring these verses? Or is there some reason why it is okay to have short hair and/or no covering?
Maybe as Christian women, we should all be wearing head coverings all the time and it's something that has fallen out of convention due to vanity and convenience?
You've definitely given me some things to think about, Sarah. :)

pailin
June 23rd, 2018, 09:38 AM
I think I've also heard these verses interpreted in terms of what was appropriate to the culture at the time - decent/modest women covered their hair. But I'm not sure if that's really so.

littlestarface
June 23rd, 2018, 09:58 AM
I love culture stuff that have to do with hair like no cutting or only cutting in such n such time. In islam there is no rule with hair just that we cover it up LOL boring!

Right now i'm learning about ancient cultures and how they wore their hair, washed etc. I wish there was more written down stuff about daily women lives in ancient times. The very interesting thing I learned tho is perfume has been around since time was time.

Bookprincess
June 23rd, 2018, 10:24 AM
I love culture stuff that have to do with hair like no cutting or only cutting in such n such time. In islam there is no rule with hair just that we cover it up LOL boring!

Right now i'm learning about ancient cultures and how they wore their hair, washed etc. I wish there was more written down stuff about daily women lives in ancient times. The very interesting thing I learned tho is perfume has been around since time was time.

Well there are the rules that you can't shave it or dye it black�� There is also the trimming of the hair for pilgrimage, but yeah, other than that, there aren't many things about hair to follow. Do you wear head coverings?

littlestarface
June 23rd, 2018, 11:02 AM
Well there are the rules that you can't shave it or dye it black�� There is also the trimming of the hair for pilgrimage, but yeah, other than that, there aren't many things about hair to follow. Do you wear head coverings?

Yea but not much stuff tho not like were connected to life or anything :rollin:

Yes I do outside I wear full niqab.

Bookprincess
June 23rd, 2018, 11:39 AM
Yea but not much stuff tho not like were connected to life or anything :rollin:

Yes I do outside I wear full niqab.

Yeah I see what you mean :laugh:
Lovely! I just wear hijab but I dabble in niqab :)

Sarahlabyrinth
June 23rd, 2018, 02:39 PM
Maybe verse 6 just means if you're not going to have long hair, you might as well just shave your head because short hair on a woman is pointless?
I really don't know. Some of the verses definitely seem to suggest that we should have a separate covering.
But it's weird that we should have long hair but we should cover it when we pray, which should be *always*. How can it be our glory if no one ever sees it? Or is it just that we know we have it and God knows and that's all that matters?
It makes me wonder because no one I know actually wears a head covering. And lots of Christian women I know have very short hair.
Are they ignoring these verses? Or is there some reason why it is okay to have short hair and/or no covering?
Maybe as Christian women, we should all be wearing head coverings all the time and it's something that has fallen out of convention due to vanity and convenience?
You've definitely given me some things to think about, Sarah. :)

I have been pondering this too, whether we need to have the covering on all the time or not. There are some ladies who do, and some who just wear a covering in church.

I found this article last night and thought it very interesting because it was saying that when praying you should either cover your glory when praying, or remove it by cutting it short. So that either way, it is not displayed. So perhaps the ladies who have very short hair don't need to cover?

https://awomansaved.com/bring-glory-to-god-christian-head-covering/

Sarahlabyrinth
June 23rd, 2018, 02:43 PM
I think I've also heard these verses interpreted in terms of what was appropriate to the culture at the time - decent/modest women covered their hair. But I'm not sure if that's really so.

I have heard this too, but if women normally covered their hair, surely they wouldn't need to be told to cover it, because it would be covered already. There must have been people of many cultures around and doubtless some would have covered their hair, and some not. I don't think it was usual for Roman women to cover their hair during worship at the time. :)

ShirleyAnn
June 23rd, 2018, 03:58 PM
Maybe verse 6 just means if you're not going to have long hair, you might as well just shave your head because short hair on a woman is pointless?
I really don't know. Some of the verses definitely seem to suggest that we should have a separate covering.
But it's weird that we should have long hair but we should cover it when we pray, which should be *always*. How can it be our glory if no one ever sees it?
I remember reading and re reading that passage to try to make sense of it. To me it seems like it's saying that if a woman prays or prophecies without covering her head that it's so shameful she may as well shave her head? But again it's not clear to me.
I figure if it's a big deal the Good Lord would have explained it to where my pea brain would understand it so it doesn't worry me much:-)

Sarahlabyrinth
June 23rd, 2018, 05:33 PM
I remember reading and re reading that passage to try to make sense of it. To me it seems like it's saying that if a woman prays or prophecies without covering her head that it's so shameful she may as well shave her head? But again it's not clear to me.
I figure if it's a big deal the Good Lord would have explained it to where my pea brain would understand it so it doesn't worry me much:-)

Yes, I found it somewhat confusing, so I wanted to try to get the meaning of it clearer. If it pleases God for me to cover, then I will. It's a very small thing I can do to show honour to Him. It seems that it does honour him, by removing your glory from view so as to better praise His. It's like saying that at this time it's not about my glory, Lord, it's all about yours, so mine is covered to show this. And there's no reason why I can't uncover my head either if I have no plans to pray for a few hours, or a day. I guess it's up to the individual to decide, though it does seem to be strongly recommended in chapter 11... I do think it's good to try and get a better understanding. That's the way I understand it...

I would have put this discussion into the Christian thread, I know we have one but I couldn't find it.

AmaryllisRed
June 23rd, 2018, 09:41 PM
I remember reading and re reading that passage to try to make sense of it. To me it seems like it's saying that if a woman prays or prophecies without covering her head that it's so shameful she may as well shave her head? But again it's not clear to me.
I figure if it's a big deal the Good Lord would have explained it to where my pea brain would understand it so it doesn't worry me much:-)

That's sort of where I stand with it right now, too.

Kat
June 24th, 2018, 05:07 AM
I've actually always wondered about the original Greek on this and the words used-- because first Paul says a woman should cover her head and a man shouldn't, and then in the next breath he says that "man is head of woman, and Christ is head of man." Is this the same word for "head"? In which case, is he rather saying "women need to forget about their husbands when focused on God, and men need to not forget about Jesus"? It doesn't make much sense with the other references to hair, but...



Resurrecting this thread out of interest...

Part of me thought that the woman who anointed the feet of Jesus must have had beautiful hair, and long hair made me feel/think about that bible story. In my church, there is no requirement to have long hair, we look at it as a topic of freedom and preference.

The bible does say that a woman's hair is her crowning glory...so I wanted to try that out and see if it was true. Martin Luther also said that "hair is the richest ornament of women". That makes me feel so good to think of hair as a crown :) like a princess

*laughing* Obviously Paul didn't know my hair... never exactly exciting.


I've worn headcoverings in church before, but I always feel a bit self-conscious since I don't even remotely come from a tradition that does it, and especially if I don't do it all the time. I also don't do it because I believe I'm in any way inferior to or must "submit" to a man, so sometimes I am hesitant to do it lest people think that is why. Frankly, I don't know why... just feel like I should. (Yet another reason I feel self-conscious, because I couldn't explain it well if someone wanted to know why.)



All very interesting, Sarah.
I have always read that as the hair IS the covering (v. 15, "for her hair is given to her as a covering") but other verses make it seem like there is to be a separate covering other than the hair itself.
I'm assuming this is the source for the Amish ladies who wear bonnets. I have heard of some Jewish women who wear head coverings or wigs always, but this being NT I'm not sure if their reasoning comes from these verses or elsewhere.
My church does not really address this at all but we did have one woman who wore a small head covering, just like a small black circle she pinned to her bun.
A lot of women wear long hair.
I do agree that it has to be a personal thing.
Very interesting point about how we are to "pray without ceasing." It would be hard to have a covering that you have to constantly put on and take off if you're praying constantly or almost. I know I pray a lot when I'm driving... can you imagine? Let me pull over so I can put on my covering. Of course there are lots of things the Bible tells us to do that are not easy or practical. :)
Anyway, I've rambled on long enough. For now, I think of my hair as my covering. You've brought up some interesting points and I'm curious to see what others have to say. :)

It doesn't necessarily have to be hard. Think of all the stories from the old days from the Catholic girls whose mothers would drape a hankie or kleenex over their head when they forgot their church veil! Does it matter to you what the covering is? It would be easy to keep even a pretty hankie handy that you could grab off the seat and toss over your head while driving. Or a scarf you could wrap loosely around your neck and pull up easily.

AmaryllisRed
June 24th, 2018, 07:30 AM
Apparently it *is* the same word for head: kephale. Isn't that interesting?

I meant it would be hard more because it's something unusual and unconventional. You know what I mean?

lapushka
June 24th, 2018, 08:57 AM
I was raised catholic, and we used to go to church regularly. Anyway, I choose not to cover my hair. Never have, never will. It's very personal for me.

sugar&nutmeg
June 24th, 2018, 03:29 PM
As far as 1 Corinthians 1 11 is concerned, this is my take.

This letter is a reply. Paul is writing to sort out problems he's been made aware of, in the church at Corinth. Some women *during church* (not at home) are not wearing the conventional Greek head coverings. Seems they are praying (as part of the liturgy) and 'prophesying' bare-headed. This sounds like they are taking very active 'leader' or 'solo' roles in the liturgy/church service. So, there's that, fwiw. That's the 'setting'.

In other words, to some church members those women are potentially being "tall poppies" and those members wrote to Paul about it. For the sake of reducing this friction, Paul wants the women all to conform, not bring attention to themselves as 'different'. He uses a variety of 'arguments' to provide weight to this, some more effective than others. I find them quite 'scattershot', to be honest.

For instance, "Not Nice" women in Greek society shaved their heads or wore very short hair, so that bit was designed to shock--not because God cares, I'm quite sure He's fine with however we *look*, as long as we keep talking to Him--to make the group cohesive, and avoid such friction. The goal is unity.

And in the end of that section, there's verse 16, where he seems to be saying 'Ultimately? Not the most important issue, dudes! Don't split the church over it. Next!'

16 But if anyone is inclined to be argumentative, we do not have such a custom, nor do the churches of God.

NOTE: I in no way mean to dismiss any tradition which requires women to, or any individual who chooses to cover their hair. Or indeed, to dismiss any scripture. That is just how I think it went down.

Lizabeth94
June 24th, 2018, 08:04 PM
I would just like to point out in 1 Cor 11:16, Paul himself states that it is not a custom in his own church, nor to be taken as custom in the church as a whole. In other words he is advising the Corinthians to do whatever is considered appropriate according to their own customs, but not a custom to be applied to every church.
Also there are many men in the old testament, and even some in the new testament who had long hair. Sampson is probably the most famous example, but also any man who took the vow of a nazarite. And there are some examples of women being told to shave their head as a symbol of mourning, or rituals for cleanliness ect.
Long story short, even in the Bible itself customs varied, its purely a cultural thing.
Its not a sin for a man to grow his hair long, nor is it a sin for a woman to cut her hair short, its all based on what is considered appropriate in the culture or region you live in.

Lizabeth94
June 24th, 2018, 08:08 PM
This topic often gets me upset due to how dogmatic and legalistic other Christians can sometimes be. I have a close friend with conservative parents who take scripture out of context, and for the longest time they refused to let her cut her hair even though she didn't like it long. She eventually did and now has a very short pixie. She is happy, and it suits her. I myself have had a pixie and shaved my head before, neither of the churches I went to had a problem with it, in fact I got the most compliments at church. Its just hair with no cultural symbolism where I live.

Lizabeth94
June 24th, 2018, 09:39 PM
I also had a friend on the opposite side of the spectrum who wore headcoverings despite her parents trying to talk sense into her, that it was a cultural thing, and begged her to dress normally, even citing opposite examples from scripture as i did. She continues to wear them to this day, and even says things like she would not date a guy with long hair, and didn't like it when i cut mine. We eventually drew a line and agreed it was a topic we couldn't discuss because our feelings were both very strong on the subject. As Paul said, its not something to argue about or be contentious over as its not a salvation issue, purely a cultural thing.

Sarahlabyrinth
June 24th, 2018, 10:45 PM
MY NIV says in verse 16 "But if anyone wants to argue about this, I simply say that we have no other custom than this, (women covering their heads and men uncovering theirs), and neither do God's other churches."

(Words in brackets are mine).

I also consider the fact that women have covered their heads for worship for pretty much the last two thousand years, and they are still being taught to cover in new churches in China, and of course there are multiple other countries where women still do cover their heads. It is only in some Western countries in the last
40 - 50 years that women have stopped the practice. Up until then it was as far as I know, universal. I can't see how Paul would emphasize so strongly for so many verses how important it was, if he was then going to say, or imply that if you don't feel like doing it, that's ok.

I went into town today wearing my covering and didn't feel too self - conscious. A Muslim woman served me at the fish counter, she was of course wearing a covering so we had quite a fun discussion about it and she told me that she had classic length hair. :)

Lizabeth94
June 24th, 2018, 11:07 PM
I disagree with that interpretation, as do both churches i attend. Paul was telling them to follow their cultural customs and nothing more, as different customs are seen elsewhere in scripture. Im not going to say anything more on the subject, as everyone is entitled to their beliefs and religious practices.

Sarahlabyrinth
June 25th, 2018, 03:57 AM
I disagree with that interpretation, as do both churches i attend. Paul was telling them to follow their cultural customs and nothing more, as different customs are seen elsewhere in scripture. Im not going to say anything more on the subject, as everyone is entitled to their beliefs and religious practices.

Oh, indeed, I agree that there is no need to argue about it and it isn't a salvation issue :) :flowers:

lapushka
June 25th, 2018, 07:42 AM
To me it is so incompatible with the world we live in today (equality between sexes). I mean why should I "cover" myself (my hair and even head) and not the men? Modesty?

I am not about to suffer through summer with a thick and heavy cover on me (you should see some of the women here, I really feel for them), when a man can walk around in a summer shirt. Nope. It is just not compatible with my feminist beliefs. And yes it's religion and that's the way it was written, but then count me a rebel. ;)

Sarahlabyrinth
June 26th, 2018, 12:47 AM
To me it is so incompatible with the world we live in today (equality between sexes). I mean why should I "cover" myself (my hair and even head) and not the men? Modesty?

I am not about to suffer through summer with a thick and heavy cover on me (you should see some of the women here, I really feel for them), when a man can walk around in a summer shirt. Nope. It is just not compatible with my feminist beliefs. And yes it's religion and that's the way it was written, but then count me a rebel. ;)

You rebel, you :D

RadioactiveLily
June 29th, 2018, 09:37 AM
I’m Catholic and I wear a religious headcovering, but usually only when I enter a church. Most of the time it’s a mantilla- more symbolic than functional. Sometimes it’s a wide sun hat, lace fascinator, or tied scarf though. Just depends on the weather and how grabby my baby is, lol! I started exploring the practice when I inherited a couple very old veils from my grandmother when she passed away. She was also my godmother and like a second mother to me, so in a way it was comforting and made me feel closer to her.

I agree that culture has a lot to do with how you feel about it. It’s a lot more common to see eastern Catholic women cover than those of western rites, but is becoming more common among younger women in the West. Some women view it as a kind of privilege, others feel like it’s a symbol of being lesser than.

If I ever felt called to wear a covering full time, and since I’m not a part of any religious order with a standard headcovering, I would probably wear something like a cross between a wide headband and a paranda. Probably a wide, long chiffon scarf tied like a headband and then woven through a braided bun. Something that mostly would just have special meaning to me.

Lizabeth94
June 29th, 2018, 07:56 PM
As far as 1 Corinthians 1 11 is concerned, this is my take.

This letter is a reply. Paul is writing to sort out problems he's been made aware of, in the church at Corinth. Some women *during church* (not at home) are not wearing the conventional Greek head coverings. Seems they are praying (as part of the liturgy) and 'prophesying' bare-headed. This sounds like they are taking very active 'leader' or 'solo' roles in the liturgy/church service. So, there's that, fwiw. That's the 'setting'.

In other words, to some church members those women are potentially being "tall poppies" and those members wrote to Paul about it. For the sake of reducing this friction, Paul wants the women all to conform, not bring attention to themselves as 'different'. He uses a variety of 'arguments' to provide weight to this, some more effective than others. I find them quite 'scattershot', to be honest.

For instance, "Not Nice" women in Greek society shaved their heads or wore very short hair, so that bit was designed to shock--not because God cares, I'm quite sure He's fine with however we *look*, as long as we keep talking to Him--to make the group cohesive, and avoid such friction. The goal is unity.

And in the end of that section, there's verse 16, where he seems to be saying 'Ultimately? Not the most important issue, dudes! Don't split the church over it. Next!'

16 But if anyone is inclined to be argumentative, we do not have such a custom, nor do the churches of God.

NOTE: I in no way mean to dismiss any tradition which requires women to, or any individual who chooses to cover their hair. Or indeed, to dismiss any scripture. That is just how I think it went down.

Didn't see this before, I know I said I wouldn't say anymore, just bumping to say I basically agree. Paul is just writing to the Corinthians addressing a question they had, whether women should cover their head as was culturally normal throughout the church meeting or take it off and on as the men were doing... Paul says that the women should do what ever is considered appropriate by their customs (in this case continue wearing the covering as they normally would) but in the end in verse 16 says that that is not an issue worth arguing about. It is a man made cultural custom, not a requirement for being a Christian or a salvation issue.
Also other customs are seen throughout the Bible, especially regarding hair, there are plenty of God ordained instances of men growing their hair long (ex vow of nazarites, Sampson, ect.) and women shaving it for certain rituals of mourning/starting over, or for disease.

All that said, I find the custom romantic. The covering represented the husband's selfless, love based, leadership being over her. Protecting her, like a mother hen taking chicks under its wing. Or like a security blanket. Take Ruth and Boaz, in the old testament, they practiced some form of this custom. This is seen when Ruth "proposes" to Boaz asking him to cover her, and when he does claim her as his wife, he spreads his mantle over her as if to say I am taking her under my wing. To be honest I kind of wish there was a custom like this where I live, I think its symbolically beautiful. If anything people in my area associate head scarves with being Muslim, and would assume that I am one, in which case I would be promoting a religion I don't belong to. (For the record I think hijabs are beautiful! I often catch myself staring at women with hijabs admiring how beautiful they are!)

I also admire the custom of hiding or tying back hair for modesty reasons (ex, hair is "treasure" that only your hubby is allowed to see) While not specifically mentioned in the Bible, this is a old custom in many parts of the world, including the middle east, and was no doubt practiced by many women in the Bible. I think its a beautiful and romantic thing, however it is not a custom where I live as hair is not seen as a sexual thing. Its also not a realistic custom for migraine sufferers or those with sensitive scalps like me to keep their hair constantly bunned or braided. I find buns, ponytails, and even braids sometimes to be extremely painful. I can only bun or pony my hair when wet (wet hair holds better and therefore can be tied back much more loosely), and only using certain hairtoys. Braids can be done dry but have to be done very carefully so there are no tight spots. It often takes me multiple tries to do a braid that doesn't hurt.

A few people have even said they know of churches where braiding hair is not allowed, and that is taking scripture out of context as well. There are at least 2 places in the new testament where women are encouraged to pursue inward adornment of the heart, and that this is more important than outward adornment, but this does not mean that braiding hair, wearing jewelry, makeup, or fancy clothes is "wrong." Just that character is more important that outward appearance. Off the top of my head I can think of several places where the church is described as the bride of Christ being adorned to meet her husband (this means the custom of a bride wearing braids and jewelry and fancy clothes, ect, for her husband is not wrong). I know when the israelites were freed from egypt God instructed them to ask for gold and precious jewelry from the Egyptians and instructed to wear it as they left Egypt. I'm sure there are many more examples especially of women being adorned for weddings or special occasions and feasts, although I can't think of any specifics right now. It think its terrible that someone might take these verses the wrong way and think that they are sinning by just doing a french braid for example. This is not so! In fact at church events growing up us girls would often sit around braiding each others hair before and after service, and when I was very little my dad would do my hair in a french braid before taking me to church or Bible camp in the summer, ect.

Rant over, I'm sorry, I just don't want anyone to think that if they are Christian that they "can't" cut their hair, or "can't" do a braid, or that they "must" style it a certain way, ect, this is not so! Its the spirit of legalism Christians were warned about, we are saved by grace not by works.

Dark40
June 30th, 2018, 03:32 PM
From where I'm from Baptist people always thought that hair uncut hair was very important. They've always believed that that uncut hair was a woman's, "Crown and Glory." That's what my grandmother always told my mom. Especially, when she used to cut her hair. She doesn't anymore though. My grandmother told her, "'The bible says your hair is your crown and glory." Until the day she passed away 2 weeks ago she had never cut her hair. Not even a trim, and those are my same beliefs. I do believe in trimming only whenever it's needed. Which is about once or twice a year, and that's it.

Sarahlabyrinth
June 30th, 2018, 03:54 PM
From where I'm from Baptist people always thought that hair uncut hair was very important. They've always believed that that uncut hair was a woman's, "Crown and Glory." That's what my grandmother always told my mom. Especially, when she used to cut her hair. She doesn't anymore though. My grandmother told her, "'The bible says your hair is your crown and glory." Until the day she passed away 2 weeks ago she had never cut her hair. Not even a trim, and those are my same beliefs. I do believe in trimming only whenever it's needed. Which is about once or twice a year, and that's it.

Wow! I'm sorry to hear of her passing. How long was her hair?

Dark40
June 30th, 2018, 09:21 PM
Wow! I'm sorry to hear of her passing. How long was her hair?

Thank you. Well, it wasn't really that long. It was shoulder length but when she was a lot younger it was BSL. As she got older like 100 years old it grew shorter. That's because it wasn't well-kept. My aunt wasn't taking good care of her hair. :( She used to get it chemically straightened but as she got older around 100 she stopped the chemicals, and she was get all of her curls out by using heat by pressing it with a pressing comb.

Dark40
June 30th, 2018, 09:22 PM
Wow! I'm sorry to hear of her passing. How long was her hair?

Thank you. Well, it wasn't really that long. It was shoulder length but when she was a lot younger it was BSL. As she got older like 100 years old it grew shorter. That's because it wasn't well-kept. My aunt wasn't taking good care of her hair. :( She used to get it chemically straightened but as she got older around 100 she stopped the chemicals, and she was get all of her curls out by using heat by pressing it with a pressing comb.

Sarahlabyrinth
June 30th, 2018, 10:35 PM
Thank you. Well, it wasn't really that long. It was shoulder length but when she was a lot younger it was BSL. As she got older like 100 years old it grew shorter. That's because it wasn't well-kept. My aunt wasn't taking good care of her hair. :( She used to get it chemically straightened but as she got older around 100 she stopped the chemicals, and she was get all of her curls out by using heat by pressing it with a pressing comb.

That is similar to my neighbour who kept her hair long too, it was around shoulder length when I first met her at age 97 and she died when she was 103 :) She was a lovely and very hard working woman.

Dark40
July 2nd, 2018, 11:30 AM
That is similar to my neighbour who kept her hair long too, it was around shoulder length when I first met her at age 97 and she died when she was 103 :) She was a lovely and very hard working woman.

Awwww, I'm so sorry to hear that. My grandmother died at 105 :) My grandmother was a lovely and very hard working woman too, and good spirited.

Sarahlabyrinth
July 2nd, 2018, 03:21 PM
Awwww, I'm so sorry to hear that. My grandmother died at 105 :) My grandmother was a lovely and very hard working woman too, and good spirited.

What a treasure :crush:

Dark40
July 3rd, 2018, 09:24 PM
What a treasure :crush:

Yes, it is :crush: I wish I had some photos of her beautiful gray hair that I can show you but I'm so sorry that I don't have any on my computer. :(

Sarahlabyrinth
July 3rd, 2018, 10:48 PM
Yes, it is :crush: I wish I had some photos of her beautiful gray hair that I can show you but I'm so sorry that I don't have any on my computer. :(

I'm sure it must have been beautiful :) :grouphug:

Dark40
July 4th, 2018, 12:14 PM
I'm sure it must have been beautiful :) :grouphug:

Yes it was beautiful! :) :grouphug:

Belle03
August 4th, 2018, 06:16 PM
From where I'm from Baptist people always thought that hair uncut hair was very important. They've always believed that that uncut hair was a woman's, "Crown and Glory." That's what my grandmother always told my mom. Especially, when she used to cut her hair. She doesn't anymore though. My grandmother told her, "'The bible says your hair is your crown and glory." Until the day she passed away 2 weeks ago she had never cut her hair. Not even a trim, and those are my same beliefs. I do believe in trimming only whenever it's needed. Which is about once or twice a year, and that's it.

I was raised the same way. Within a Southern Baptist & Muslim household, longer hair was encouraged.

Joyful Mystery
August 6th, 2018, 11:33 AM
I'm Catholic and veil my hair as a sign of loving submission before God, and do it anytime I'm inside a Catholic church, where the Blessed Sacrament is reserved in the tabernacle.

Dark40
August 11th, 2018, 05:56 PM
I was raised the same way. Within a Southern Baptist & Muslim household, longer hair was encouraged.

Yes, Southern Baptist & Muslim and other religions do encourage long hair.