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LaurelSpring
July 31st, 2009, 07:41 AM
Yesterday I was so proud of my hair. I accomplished the best french twist that I have done in forever and I put a cute multicolored flexi for decoration. I was loving my hair!

I had dinner with a friend (permed dyed blonde) and halfway into dinner she leaned forward and said that wearing my hair up made me look matronly and she just wanted to let me know that and that I should wear it down to look younger. I passed it off with saying that I need to keep it up to protect it...etc but I was still inwardly fuming about it.

This is the second time one of my friends has made a comment about me wearing my hair up and honestly I think it looks sleek and sexy and sophisticated. Am I totally not seeing what they are seeing? Or is it some social thing that says hair down sexy and young, hair up old and matronly.

When I see the pics of everyones hair up here I think it looks hot! Maybe its a long hair thing. I dont know if anyone else has had this experience or not.

heidihug
July 31st, 2009, 07:58 AM
Doesn't sound like all that good of a friend to me. If you had solicited her opinion, that's one thing. But, if she offered up her criticism out of the blue, then she is just being petty or mean.

If one of my friends/relatives does something to their hair that I don't care for, or is wearing an outfit that I think is unflattering, for instance, I never say anything about it. I've always thought of it as self-aggrandizing to offer up critical opinions on others, especially if they have not asked for an opinion.

Some might say she is jealous, which could be the case. Or, she might enjoy tearing someone else down to build up her own self-esteem. Who knows? Next time someone says something similar, either ignore it with a pointed stare, or tell them that you are wearing your hair in a way you like and enjoy. No need to apologize or make an excuse. Your hair is beautiful, up or down.

cindy58
July 31st, 2009, 08:11 AM
Well, that was a crappy thing to say to you. Go ahead and wear your hair the way you like it, and feel great about it!

I notice that plenty of folks wearing their hair in "current" styles have issues with the appearance of their hair due to it's rough treatment, but I don't comment on that.

SimplyViki
July 31st, 2009, 08:24 AM
That's not a nice thing to say! It's not as though you had asparagus bits stuck in your teeth. I appreciate a friend telling me if I've got toilet paper on my shoe or my skirt's tucked up in my undies (when I wore skirts, anyway), but I would not appreciate criticisms like that. Not sure what her motives might have been, I wasn't there, but it definitely wasn't nice of her.

Anyway, I don't think updos are matronly. When I was a kid, I used to admire old fashioned pictures of women with their hair put up in intricate hairstyles, and the way it was so flattering to the neck. I don't think there's anything matronly about showing off a great neck! :shrug:

If you think it's sleek and sophisticated, then it is. It's your attitude that makes it so. Don't let someone else rain on your parade.

heatheradair
July 31st, 2009, 08:32 AM
There are much better ways for her to let you know her opinion without calling you "matronly," such as, "You know, your hair is so beautiful when you wear it down - I wish you'd wear it down more!" rather than the equivalent of, "You look old." It was really tacky of her to say what she did.

I think certain types of updos can make one look a bit older, but I'm really just talking about a very tight bun on harshly pulled-back hair. I think most updos look sophisticated, and they often make your hair look fuller, too (which lends an air of youthfulness). Keep on rockin' your hair just how you want it!

Bottom line: your friend was out of order.

going gray
July 31st, 2009, 08:35 AM
I agree completely with Heidihug, your "friend" should have kept her opinions to herself.

It took me a LONG time to understand that the only one you have to please is YOURSELF!

Enjoy wearing your hair ANYWAY YOU wish!

LaFlor
July 31st, 2009, 08:36 AM
My friends and I are pretty honest with each other about our looks, styles, outfits. I wouldn't be offended by the comment, but it really depends on the kind of friendship you have with her. Between me and most of my friends we have a policy of "If something doesn't suit me or if I look silly, let me know!"But that is how I am with my friends. Not everyone can talk to me like that and I don't offer up those kind of comments to everyone either.

I guess she was just trying to help... maybe she doesn't see the beauty in updo's since most women don't do them except when they don't have time to "do" their hair.

I don't think most updo's are matronly, especially a french twist. I think its a sophisticated look for all women.

Newniepg
July 31st, 2009, 09:15 AM
In my very humble opinion, real friends don't make hurtful comments about my appearance. I also think that updo's look sophisticated.

Don't let some one else lessen your pride in your accomplishment.

I'm sorry you were faced with such bad manners, I hope it didn't upset you too much. :flower:

Raederle
July 31st, 2009, 09:24 AM
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. That said, I have to admit that, after I asked, many people who liked my hair in other styles thought of the French Twiest as an "old" style :shrug: I'm with you; I think of it as sleek and sophisticated.

LadyLongLocks
July 31st, 2009, 09:28 AM
Matronly is a pretty severe word!
Your updo sounded very pretty! Sounds like she has no conception of long hair and updo's.
With her permed dyed blonde hair, she probably cant grow it long.
Next time you see her, wear your hair down and long! Flaunt it and brag about the condition since you never perm.
You were very tolerant of her comment. I wouldn't have been so nice!

Stevy
July 31st, 2009, 09:35 AM
Sounds like your friend's a bit tactless. Some people do have trouble realising that their personal opinion isn't actually the universal truth - I have a dear friend myself who used to make unwanted comments on my clothes until I asked her to stop it.

SimplyViki
July 31st, 2009, 09:49 AM
Sounds like your friend's a bit tactless. Some people do have trouble realising that their personal opinion isn't actually the universal truth - I have a dear friend myself who used to make unwanted comments on my clothes until I asked her to stop it.
Oh, yes. :rolleyes: Tell me about it.

heatherdazy
July 31st, 2009, 09:53 AM
I think your friend was honestly trying to be helpful. Friends who say things you may not want to hear can be useful and I don't think you should be angry just because they don't formulate every statement to be pleasing.

That doesn't mean she was right, though. I think some updos look better for younger women and some for older, just as different down styles work well for different ages. There are so many variations on the french twist, that I would say some could certainly look very matronly while some look more appropriate for a pop singer.

If you're trying to keep your updo with a young feel, some suggestions might be:
-give it a side part rather than slicking it back
-leave a few tendrils hanging loose hear your face
-give yourself some height at the crown (to do this without teasing, pull the hair part up part down first, slide the elastic down the pony, push the hair up and bobby pin the elastic against your head. Just make sure to cover it with your remaining hair)
-rest the hair on the neck, for example, a low side chignon that's just behind your right ear rather than a bun squarely on the back you your head
-add texture, maybe sleep in lots of tiny braids then wear a 'crimped' french twist
-do two... two braids, two buns, etc.

Heidi_234
July 31st, 2009, 09:57 AM
I wouldn't say it's completely tactless or hurtful statement. People outside LHC tend not to take hair as seriously, and such a comment doesn't seem that big of a deal (to them), after all - "it's just hair" (for them :p). Also, as a person who doesn't really like buns that much I can see why would she say that.
That said, if you like it, if you think it looks good, you can brush those comments away. It's your hair, your appearance, and you're not here to decorate somebody else's world. :)

MsBubbles
July 31st, 2009, 10:07 AM
You're probably a nicer person than I am...I would cut someone off completely who said something like that to me (unless it was one of my kids!).

When seeing only headshots, I think updos look pretty. However, I'm always overly conscious, myself, of how the overall image looks, because I'm tall and wide with a miniscule head and flat hair. Every other day when I wear my hair up I think I look like a brontosaurus...big thighs, long neck, tiny head. If I wear my hair up at all it makes my head disappear.

So that's my own twisted view on updo's and it's all based on how bad I feel about myself, not anybody else. Most of us aren't built like cartoon or Anime figures - we don't all have giant heads, thick hair and little bodies! I just wish I did.

I think it's your friend's own issues that caused her to say such an ugly thing, but that doesn't mean you have to hang out with her any more :).

saskia_madding
July 31st, 2009, 10:17 AM
You know, it's odd. I had a friend say the exact same thing to me and although I wasn't offended (I did think she was trying to help), I became curious. Is this a long hair vs. short hair thing?

So I asked around. Everyone with hair that they took seriously (in terms of health, growing it out, etc), regardless of current length, thought updos were really pretty and sophisticated. Many even broke it down, saying the French twists and buns were elegant, while the braided updos were creative and funky. But no one mentioned matronly.

When I talked to people who just sort of thought of their hair as an accessory to their look or outfit, or didn't care much about their hair either way, they all thought updos were for old ladies.

Interesting dichotomy, isn't it?

nicolina
July 31st, 2009, 10:23 AM
I think we learn to see things in a certain way. For example, I thought of shoulder-length/BSL hair as long, but after browsing LHC for a few months, it just doesn't look long to me at all. My sister is always going on about how 'old-fashioned' and 'uncool' my updos are, but that's just how she has learned to see them. My other friends come up with the much more encouraging 'pretty' and 'elegant'. (My dad sticks with 'different' - being diplomatic!) I just love making the back of my head as interesting or even more so than the front. Stick with what you like, and be glad you get to look at the world through your own eyes and not anyone else's.

MsBubbles
July 31st, 2009, 10:26 AM
You know, it's odd. I had a friend say the exact same thing to me and although I wasn't offended (I did think she was trying to help), I became curious. Is this a long hair vs. short hair thing?

So I asked around. Everyone with hair that they took seriously (in terms of health, growing it out, etc), regardless of current length, thought updos were really pretty and sophisticated. Many even broke it down, saying the French twists and buns were elegant, while the braided updos were creative and funky. But no one mentioned matronly.

When I talked to people who just sort of thought of their hair as an accessory to their look or outfit, or didn't care much about their hair either way, they all thought updos were for old ladies.

Interesting dichotomy, isn't it?

Wow! I nominate this post as Most Useful Post of the Day :). That's some good info, simone_rodrigue. Funny though because all the 'old ladies' I know have the standard cut, perm & blowdry every month. Maybe 'old' is a relative term here.

I've noticed a lot of the generic poufy highlighted, or even stacked highlighted bob women here in the Southeastern US wear their hair up a lot because it's so darned HOT. And this can be anybody from teens upwards. But then those aren't necessarily official 'updos', more just anchoring it into submission with various clips. The teens don't look matronly that way :).

rhondalicious
July 31st, 2009, 10:40 AM
I don't think updos are matronly at all! I do happen to think that certain updos make my head look disproportionate, but I don't care and wear them anyhow!

I happen to love french twists, so don't let those comments bother you, and you keep twisting!

LaurelSpring
July 31st, 2009, 10:45 AM
You know, it's odd. I had a friend say the exact same thing to me and although I wasn't offended (I did think she was trying to help), I became curious. Is this a long hair vs. short hair thing?

So I asked around. Everyone with hair that they took seriously (in terms of health, growing it out, etc), regardless of current length, thought updos were really pretty and sophisticated. Many even broke it down, saying the French twists and buns were elegant, while the braided updos were creative and funky. But no one mentioned matronly.

When I talked to people who just sort of thought of their hair as an accessory to their look or outfit, or didn't care much about their hair either way, they all thought updos were for old ladies.

Interesting dichotomy, isn't it?

I think this has alot to do with it. Her hair has never been much below shoulder and she is always trying to look alot younger than her age. I think that although she wasnt intentionally trying to me be mean (maybe) that she was judging my hair by her own personal "whats in style right now" yardstick. I think alot of people do make those associations and it can be very subjective.

I think though that I wll take LadyLongLocks suggestion though and next time we have dinner I will totally flaunt it! When I do wear it down now I get those amazed your hair is so long now and looks amazing comments. I personally think it looks amazing up too, but maybe you have to be a long hair to appreciate that and I will just have to accept that and keep doing my thing.

I really appreciate everyones encouragement and input on this.

Rohele
July 31st, 2009, 10:51 AM
Sometimes I feel matronly with updos, but that has more to do with my overall appearance that day (how much care I took with my outfit, make-up etc.). And I think some updos look more matronly on me than others (flexi secured french twist is not one of them, that's been my "go-to" style for the last couple of months, lol - I hope I don't look matronly). And as I'm getting older, I can't pull off tightly pulled back looks like I used to.

No-one has ever said that I look matronly with my hair up, but I have had people say if I'm going to wear my hair up all the time I should just cut it. I agree it was pretty tactless - I would be annoyed if a friend said it to me. It's funny, "advice" like that has usually come to me, at least, from people who I'm not really close to, or who have radically different ideas on how to present themselves than I do.

Chamomile betty
July 31st, 2009, 10:59 AM
I have gotten many compliments on my updos. They can be very sexy and alluring. Don't listen to your friend at all.

redwoman
July 31st, 2009, 11:11 AM
People who are jealous tend to make those kinds of comments. I would just take it as a compliment. It probably eats her alive that your hair is long and lovely and you can put it up.

marzipanthecat
July 31st, 2009, 11:23 AM
This makes me think of the term "matron" as used of elder matriarchs in ancient Rome - the Roman Matron. A woman to respect, and with some limited power.

I would love to be that respected. And scary.

By the way, I don't think what your friend said was very nice. I'm used to my family saying stuff like that to me, but my family generally have no manners!

patience
July 31st, 2009, 11:46 AM
I'm sure you were rockin' the sleek, sophisticated and definitely sexy look. I always find updos appealing. I wouldn't worry about it.

rhubarbarin
July 31st, 2009, 11:48 AM
I think she was just trying to put you down (unless she is usually one of those people who deosn't know the difference between tact and brutal honesty - but if it was really that she liked your hair down better, she would have just said so).

This is the second time? If she tries it again, say something direct but with a smile - 'I don't appreciate you criticizing my hair style - I really like it like this, and that's what matters!'

However you like your hair, wear it and don't listen to the naysayers. I am sure it looks amazing.


But matronly is hardly an insult by definition. I see nothing wrong with your hair style lending you the appearance of 'a married woman usually marked by dignified maturity or social distinction'!

I think loose hair can make you appearance more youthful, but I don't think the reverse is true.

Babyfine
July 31st, 2009, 11:51 AM
I've never had anyone tell me this- but I have had the "why do you keep it long if all you're going to do is wear it up all the time?" comments from several people.

The way you were wearing your hair sounds very pretty, and I would have been rather offended if I received an unsolicited comment like that from a friend, even if they were trying to be helpful.

joyellen
July 31st, 2009, 11:52 AM
If you like how you look with your hair up, then you should continue doing what makes you happy. You didn't grow your hair out to please her, you grew it out to please yourself.

Anje
July 31st, 2009, 12:03 PM
I don't get that, but I'm not necessarily going to accuse her of being a bad friend. After all, it's generally a good thing to quietly mention to a friend when something they're wearing really doesn't look good on them; I'm sure she didn't mean to embarrass you or criticize, just to unobtrusively inform you that she thinks you could flatter yourself more.

All that said, there's no reason to believe that what she's saying is objectively true, or anything else. She probably equates buns with old ladies, despite that I can count on my fingers the number of old ladies I've seen with buns. Not everyone thinks that way out in the real world, and the zillions of college students running around in messybuns will tell you that it's far more practical than wearing their hair down.

Please yourself with how you look. (In general, not just with hair.) You'll be more comfortable and look better if you like how you look, than trying to conform to someone else's definition of what's desirable this hour.

spidermom
July 31st, 2009, 12:23 PM
She's entitled to her opinion. If it was offensive to you, right at that moment would have been a good time to confront her about it.

My opinion is that a French twist looks good.

Roseate
July 31st, 2009, 12:37 PM
I had dinner with a friend (permed dyed blonde) and halfway into dinner she leaned forward and said that wearing my hair up made me look matronly and she just wanted to let me know that and that I should wear it down to look younger.

Sounds like she doesn't like your updos and you don't like her chemical processing! Difference is, she's rude enough to give you her unsolicited negative opinion.

Sounds like you wouldn't want your hair to look "good" by her standards, and she wouldn't want hers to look good by your standards. Different strokes.

I do think many updos do make young women look a little older, but older in a 'glamorous and put-together' kind of way, not an 'old and frumpy' kind of way. I have no desire to look like I'm in my early 20's for the rest of my life, so no problem there.

My mom is 63 to my 33, often wears updos and often gets taken for my sister, so clearly it's working for her!

going gray
July 31st, 2009, 12:57 PM
Roseate, That's so encouraging, being almost your Mom's age. What a compliment to her.

Teacherbear
July 31st, 2009, 01:19 PM
I think some of it has to do with preferences.

For example, I can't stand those really pointy high heel shoes. They look silly, to me. But if that is someone else's fashion choice, then I'm just glad they aren't on my feet. :shrug:

Do what you prefer with your own hair.

Isilme
July 31st, 2009, 01:22 PM
well, I don't think she meant to be rude or put you down. We often tend to jump to the conclusion that when a friend or someone else is expressing their opinion and we don't like it they are either jelous or trying to put us down, if that was true for every time a lot of us would have really mean "friends" I think she just didn't like you bun and was trying to tell you in a nice way (a way she thought was nice) you are going to get different answers depending on who you ask, someone will love that dress, and someone else will hate it, the important thing is that you like your hair. Oh, and google Seven of Nine (startrek), I have yet to see anyone pull of a french twist like she does!:)

prosperina
July 31st, 2009, 03:55 PM
I've had a few friends tell me I should dress "younger" since I tend to sometimes dress more conservatively then these friends do. They think given my age and body type I should show more off or flaunt more--and sometimes I do, but what I consider "daring" some people see as not sexy enough So I don't know. You can't please everyone.

I asked my mother recently if my clothing and hair were too "old" and she said no that would be impossible since you do not look old. :shrug:

It's not the outfit or the hairstyle that makes one look "old", "young", "matronly" "fat" or "thin" but the person wearing the outfit or hairstyle.

Stevy
July 31st, 2009, 03:56 PM
I've never had anyone tell me this- but I have had the "why do you keep it long if all you're going to do is wear it up all the time?" comments from several people.

Oh, I get that a lot. I usually just stare blankly at them and say 'because I like having long hair' in a boring tone of voice, and then change the subject. When they realise they aren't going to change my mind or get me visibly annoyed, they generally drop it.

Elphie
July 31st, 2009, 05:10 PM
I find it interesting that some opinions of updo's are that it makes someone look matronly yet most brides wear 'em. Are they trying to look older on their wedding day? Of course not. I do think it's a matter of perception. Your friend could use a bit more tact if she wants to tell you something.

walkinglady
July 31st, 2009, 07:27 PM
Sometimes friends overstep their bounds. I usually don't have a quick comeback so I get bruised feelings and say nothing.
If there is a next time you could say, "Gee I really like my hair like this. I think it looks great!" If she pushes the issue you could calmly say, "Oh, you just wouldn't understand. Great care goes into growing long beautiful hair. If you're ever interested in having healthy hair you should check out the Long Hair Community. They have some wonderful advice for gorgeous hair at any length!" That ought to shut her up!
Also, I don't know how often you see this friend. I have one friend who I've chosen to see less frequently. We usually have a lot of fun together but on occasion she gets mean and looks for fight over absolutely nothing. After a few negative experiences I've decided I don't need it. I am not going to be the one she picks at, she needs to find someone else. Since my decision we are back to having a great time again. However, I only see her about once a month now. Which is fine by me cause we truely have a good time again. I have found the saying 'Absence makes the heart grow fonder" works with friends as well : )

heatherdazy
July 31st, 2009, 08:11 PM
I find it interesting that some opinions of updo's are that it makes someone look matronly yet most brides wear 'em. Are they trying to look older on their wedding day? Of course not.
Actually, I'd say most brides wear some variation of part up part down. I wish more of them wore updos! It would be more interesting work for us stylists!

Gingevere
July 31st, 2009, 08:23 PM
Matronly? No. Sophisticated? Yes.

It appears there are quite a few people out there who are under the impression that buns are a granny thing. Maybe a severe, tight bun, but certainly not a French twist! It's not a popular teen style, I suppose, but teen updos generally aren't very mature-looking. Anyway, my mom (who's 60, btw) loves that I've started wearing my hair up more often. She says it looks nice and doesn't hide my face the way my hair does when it's down.

Kat
July 31st, 2009, 08:32 PM
Geez. Sounds like something my mom would say. (Only my mom would say that I need to wear my hair down because always wearing it in a single braid makes me look younger. I thought it was TWO braids that were characteristic of little kids, but whatever. Besides, I thought the consensus here several years ago was that wearing hair down made one look younger??)

Maybe she's thinking back to the days when only young girls wore their hair down, and once they were "grown up" they put it up? (think of Laura Ingalls, etc.)

Elphie
July 31st, 2009, 08:35 PM
Actually, I'd say most brides wear some variation of part up part down. I wish more of them wore updos! It would be more interesting work for us stylists!


Maybe the difference in location? I can't remember the last bride that I saw with her hair down unless it was too short to put up.

Ice~Cold~Wind
July 31st, 2009, 08:49 PM
How rude. I've had my share of rude comments about my hair(mainly from family members. Sad but true :() But I never take it to heart because I know I've got something that a lot of women don't have: long, glorious, healthy hair! It may sound superficial to some, but it's the one thing I actually have pride in caring for. Believe me, it has payed off. Just keep that in mind when you face critisism like that. Just remember that there are a lot of people who will find your hair beautiful!;)

RavennaNight
July 31st, 2009, 09:21 PM
Sometimes friends are blunt. I have a friend who is so blunt nobody understands how I could be friends with someone so tactless. This person has opinions and has no problem expressing them no matter how negative they may be. Sometimes it is insightful and brings perspective. I like how Spidermom put it. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. It is an opinion, not a law enforced upon you. If you like your hair up, so wear it and enjoy it!

As far as "matronly" comments about buns & updos in general, it is a pretty common sentiment and have heard them before. :shrug: I've more gotten the schoolteacher comment and the "why have it if you don't show it" comment. This coming from me, who wears hair down 75% of the time, because I personally feel severe wearing a bun all the time.

I wouldn't read so far into this as to defriend the person. :shrug: Unless they are a frenemy. It depends how close you are to your friend, and how well you know the ins and outs of eachother.

Enjoy your hair however you like it!

Alun
July 31st, 2009, 09:43 PM
Thirty years ago, it was only old ladies who wore their hair up. I think that's where this sentiment comes from, and I can understand it. Now, all the old ladies seem to chop their hair off instead. Quite honestly, I think women look more attractive with long hair worn loose, FWIW. Younger, though? I don't know. I think all the talk that anyone looks younger or older with a certain style is mostly not true.

gmdiaz
August 1st, 2009, 03:14 PM
Well, I looked at your album and saw a beautiful updo, right at the start! You do NOT look matronly.

So #1 Your friend was 100% mistaken.

And #2 I am thinking you were feeling a little too good, a little too happy and looked a little too good at that moment and your friend stumbled over her own feelings. It's nothing to be mad about. It happens to just about everyone at some point. But she may not be able to be a true friend to you, if this is the usual way that she handles her own feelings.

If you want to be happy, you've gotta watch out for toxic people, you know!

Wicked Princess
August 1st, 2009, 03:50 PM
I expect honesty from my friends, and those close to me, and because we are close and expect this of each other, I would not be offended if one of them were to say that for me. Also because of this, I'm also comfortable with saying, "And I think you're crazy!" to them. :)

I hope you aren't too angry at your friend. She may have been trying to help, and is just tactless. People really ought to put more thought into *how* they say things. Constructive criticism is welcome (at least for me), but you still have to be considerate of someone's feelings! In any case, it sounded like she was trying to bring it up with you privately, rather than criticize you in front of people, so this is why I say this.

I honestly think that the majority of having "hair up" = matronly is social perception, though I don't see how...updos are common for special events (even young ones, like high school proms!)...and many a LHC member has linked to some very beautiful, young, celebrities in ubdos and pretty hair toys!

sapphire-o
August 1st, 2009, 04:49 PM
I didn't know "matronly" is such a negative word. I call myself matronly a lot. :D I turned 37 this year and already feel very very different. I feel kinda "free". Older age gives you the freedom to wear what you want to wear, look what you want to look and don't feel like you have to be trendy. I even started wearing very bold colorful stuff and gaudy jewelry sometimes. :D

I personally think updos can only look "matronly" if you're at least a little bit old. On young women they just look cute. Plus this is peak of the summer right now. Wearing your hair down? Most women here who have any bit of hair got them all clipped up right now in this heat.

MotherConfessor
August 1st, 2009, 10:48 PM
Im with Isilme, once you have seen Jeri Ryan rock a french twist you will never think of it as matronly again. Intense and sexy perhaps, but matronly- never.

As for your friend, she was probably trying to be helpful, just remember that her opinion is no more or less valid than that of anyone else. She thinks you look matronly, I think you look fabulous.

krn2891
August 1st, 2009, 11:25 PM
I think buns do look matronly, if they are pulled back all tight, but I wear them all the time in the summer so I just deal with it. Thats were hair sticks or forks come in for me is they play it up so its a little different then the traditional bun that everyone knows. Although looking at some of the buns people on here can do they are a far cry from your grandmothers bun.

Rebelkat
August 1st, 2009, 11:49 PM
Just wondering... if updos are so matronly, why do *some* women pay big bucks to have a professional style their hair in updos for their weddings and proms? What teenager going to a prom or future bride wants to look matronly for their big day?

luckypenny
August 2nd, 2009, 01:07 AM
Here in my neck of the woods it is the older ladies who chop off their hair. Now some religions around here have their women wear long hair up in a bun, with absolutely no hair toys in sight. And they all look sort of the same. But that is just part of one's belief I think.

Lately it is what I call the "helmet" hair cut that seems to be taking front stage. Women of all ages are wearing a version of a bob that I am sure many of you have seen around your neck of the woods. It is short and poofed up on the back and the sides are left longer, often straightned, so a 3D rotation of the hair reminds you of a helmet. It is cute in it's own way, but sooooooo many ladies are wearing it! makes ya feel sort of tired of it.....

As far as the friend who made the "matronly" comment :( well, maybe she doesn't know how much your hair means to you, therefore didn't understand you had it up for a very good reason. What is important is how YOU feel about your hair. Do you feel fabulous when you are having a good hair day? THAT's what's important :)
Lots of good hair vibes to you sister :)

Chamomile betty
August 2nd, 2009, 07:19 AM
I didn't know "matronly" is such a negative word. I call myself matronly a lot. :D I turned 37 this year and already feel very very different. I feel kinda "free". Older age gives you the freedom to wear what you want to wear, look what you want to look and don't feel like you have to be trendy. I even started wearing very bold colorful stuff and gaudy jewelry sometimes. :D

I personally think updos can only look "matronly" if you're at least a little bit old. On young women they just look cute. Plus this is peak of the summer right now. Wearing your hair down? Most women here who have any bit of hair got them all clipped up right now in this heat.

I really agree with your statement sapphire. At 35 I feel I have earned the way I look now. Actually I am happier in my 30's than I was in my 20's.
Updos can look really cute especially if they are loose and have that just tossed up look. But there there is something classy and mysterious about a bun or french twist. They are all great looks to me.
At BS I have a lot of hair mine has to be clipped up or else I'd get hot. At work I wear it up for ease of styling and because it's practical.

Melisande
August 22nd, 2009, 03:58 PM
Interesting discussion. From my perspective:

Why should matronly be negative? I'm proud of my status as a matron. I'm a married woman who has raised/is raising children, I'm responsible for others, I have my share in a successful partnership of two decades - why should I try to look younger, childlesser or singler than I am? Who defines that a matron is unsexy? She is certainly not, at least not to the one who counts in her life. My hb thinks I am, I think I am, and I can live very well with the fact that people in the age of my children don't think I am. Actually, I don't see any of them as potential partner either.

Matronly is not frumpy and it disturbs me that these words are so often used synonymously. Matronly is actually the exact opposite of frumpy. A matron, in the ideal case, is a loved, respected woman who has earned her place in life and who continues to bless her marriage with her matronly charms ;-) as I try to do.

So if somebody says to me: your updos make you look matronly (and my mother does... oh yeah, and often!), then I say: thank you for the compliment, I'm happy to be a matron.

I saw last month in a museum little altars (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:AUFAN1.jpg)for the matrons, Celtic goddesses of abundance and blessing and protection. No word against the matrons!

And your friend? She meant to be honest and said her opinion. I think that's neither rude nor sign of envy. If she was a bad friend, she would have shut up when she feels you make yourself look worse (the uglier friend syndrome, if you know what I mean). I don't think there is anything wrong with saying one's opinion among good friends, even if I agree that she might have found a more tactful or positive way of saying it. There is no reason to denigrate somebody else's choice of hairstyle even if one doesn't like it. But the way she said it, well, she only repeated what fashion magazines have been saying for years.

If you are young, cut your hair to look cute and sexy. If you are older, cut your hair to look younger, more sophisticated, whatever... forget it.

I know that to most people, I look younger with my hair down. But most of the time, I don't want to. I enjoy looking the age I am. I enjoy my updos. I also don't mind looking severe or, as my mother said, "worried". Making nice updos is a feminine skill. I'm proud I have it. I'm also proud I have the hair for it.

And the French twist? Grace Kelly, Kim Novak... the French twist is elegant, sexy, sophisticated, polished, whatever you wish. If people nowadays can't see it because only short, tousled bedheads look sexy, or only peroxide helmets look sophisticated... well, then we see the results of fashion industry brain wash.

I had to watch fashion TV on a plane ride some weeks ago. Do you want to know something? Most of the models had long hair, and in most of the shows, they had updos. Ugly sprayed poufy updos, for my taste at least, but they were updos.

So as everybody else said: it depends on the woman who wears the updo. Grace kelly looks sexy and elegant with an updo, I look matronly and bieder with it, and that's fine.

Go ahead and wear your updos. And give your friend the chance to learn more about updos - give her the URL of TLHC...

Fractalsofhair
August 22nd, 2009, 04:36 PM
Well... The granny bun is matronly. Can't deny that. XD

Most updos look stylish and formal, perhaps a bit too much for a teen or woman in her early 20s. A funky hairtoy changes that to awesome though...

Ruvie
August 22nd, 2009, 05:05 PM
Updos are sexy!! I see pictures online of women in updoes and the first thing I think is how CLASSY they look! Sophisticated, Classy women who are beautiful with gorgeous hair and KNOW it. That;s what I think when I see fabulous updos :)

ipickee
August 22nd, 2009, 05:07 PM
Well crap, if updo's are matronly, then I've been screwed since I was a teenager! There's nothing wrong with updos, especially for those of us who realize how well it protects our hair! Tell your friend thanks for her opinion, and then forget about what she said. I've got to think that she's one of a select few that feel that way.

Gladtobemom
August 22nd, 2009, 05:29 PM
Sounds like a snarky thing to say.

Updos can be messy and sexy, chic and sexy, they can even be all sleeked back and tight . . . librarian sexy. (At least that's what my DH and my grown sons think).

DS21-b actually taught his gf how to make a puzzle bun and a lazy figure 8 bun. She's tall and has a beautiful neck and shoulders. Her hair is ling and frothy/wavy, she looks fabulous any way, but with her hair off her shoulders . . . spectacular.

LaurelSpring
August 24th, 2009, 07:42 AM
Thanks for your response Melisande. I feel the same way. I was watching the movie Knowing last weekend and was admiring the school teachers french twist. They showed her 50 years later as an eldery woman( I realize its a different actress) with her hair still in a french twist and she still looked as classy then as before. I hope to do the same.

JamieLeigh
August 24th, 2009, 07:50 AM
Style magazines and shows tell them that over-processed hair is cute and sassy, so they feel they need to assimilate you. Your style is YOUR style, and it's none of their business what you do, unless it is something extreme that deserves to be negatively commented on (i.e., private body parts are showing). I wouldn't worry about it - no one I really value in my life has ever said anything negative about my hair or what I do to/with it. And I think updos are fabulous, and a great way for us to both protect our hair and show off our hair-styling prowess at the same time. (Not to mention keep it off our necks in the summertime...) :flower:

Medievalmaniac
August 24th, 2009, 08:01 AM
your friends are reading too much Instyle and People. I bet when they hit "a certain age" they'll cut and highlight the crap out of their hair to look sleek, sexy, smart and sophisticated, just because the magazines tell them to. Your hair, on the other hand, will never go out of style. No matter what happens in the world of fashionable hair, we know from watching it for decades that it ALWAYS goes back to long, and even when the style is short, long hairs are admired and desired. :) I think she was just being "a good friend" as far as she knew, but doesn't and probably won't ever understand that just because the mags say so, doesn't make it right. :) I think French twists are sexy - and my DH does, too. He once told me (before I had long hair and before we were married, mind you!! lol) he wondered when he saw women with updos what the hair looked like when it was down, and that led him to thinking about hair let down, which led him to thinking about why it was down, which led him to...well, other kinds of thinking. ;)

Medievalmaniac
August 24th, 2009, 08:12 AM
Here's an idea, show your friend these:

Matronly 1:

http://images.askmen.com/photos/catherine-zeta-jones/13400.jpg

Matronly 2:

http://www4.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/40th+NAACP+Image+Awards+Arrivals+8d3igG73l5Wl.jpg

Matronly #3:

http://cdn.sheknows.com/celebsalon/2008/03/halle-berry-peoples-choice-awards-sleek-updo.jpg

Matronly 4:

http://www4.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/Australia+Photocall+qpbz6kO3m9vl.jpg

Matronly 5:

http://z.about.com/d/beauty/1/5/0/h/gwyneth.JPG

Yah, these women all over age 30 definitely look plain awful with their matronly updos. Four of the five women in these shots are mothers...aren't they just horribly matronly with their buns and updos. WHATever!! :)

kmoc123
August 24th, 2009, 09:01 AM
I wouldn't have dinner with her anymore...she is not a very good friend. I think she is probably jealous. Say a little prayer for her and wear your hair any way you want! You have lots of friends here!!!

embee
August 24th, 2009, 09:08 AM
Hee! I *love* those 5 matronly photos! :)

They sure do show how matronly an updo can look. And how *terribly* out of style. Right?

;)

going gray
August 24th, 2009, 09:27 AM
Oh thanks for those matronly updo photos. Would like to find some photos of women around my age with updos!

Teakafrog
August 24th, 2009, 09:38 AM
I almost strangled my husband Saturday for this. I had to work all day, then we were going to a wedding that evening, and I had literally 5 minutes to do my hair between work and leaving for the festivities. I did a quick French twist, figured it would be elegant, but quick and simple. We got there, and he pointed out the over-70 crowd and their 'Pentacostal poufs', and said I would fit right in. :steam I was not pleased.

MemSahib
August 24th, 2009, 12:27 PM
Grace Kelly — beautiful, elegant, and known for her French twists. She wore one to receive her Oscar in 1955. Do not tell me that this style is "matronly".

Ruvie
August 24th, 2009, 12:43 PM
I quite like number 4 in those 5 pictures! All of those women look classy, anything BUT frumpy and "matronly". They look fabulous.

violetka
August 24th, 2009, 05:12 PM
Everybody has different taste and opinions when it comes to hair or anything else. Your friends are entitled to theirs. so to them long hair looks matronly - no problem, there is no right and wrong in the matter of taste. however it is impolite of them to tell you and coach you in your style. obviously you do not think so, since you wear your hair up, means you like urself that way, so it is rude. Otherwise, fo Gods sake matronly or not, thats for each person individually to decide.

I also think it is a matter of how you wear your hair up. But Catherine Zeta Jones to me does look a bit matronly on that picture.

missfortune9335
August 24th, 2009, 05:17 PM
Matronly? Not unless you're also wearing an apron and some slippers or something. lol
I think french twists are very sophisticated and sexy. Some people don't get the subtlety of being sophisticated/sexy vs. trashy/sexy or trying too hard to look young though, you know what I mean?

jasper
August 24th, 2009, 05:32 PM
It takes more than an updo to look matronly, and it's quite possible to pull off the matronly look with permed blonde hair.

I've had friends who I could count on for the blunt fashion advice/ criticism, but it would surely grate if out of the blue or tactless.

takhisis
August 24th, 2009, 06:46 PM
Whenever somebody makes a comment like that, I always think of this comic: http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/3/24/

"It's not for you"

It always surprises me when people think your appearance is for the benefit of others. I guess a lot of people do change their looks so other people like them more, but I've always considered my appearance to be a matter for personal enjoyment. It doesn't really matter how other people think I look - it's not for them.

Snowflakey
August 24th, 2009, 07:56 PM
Having friends who don't care about growing long healthy hair is hard, isn't it? I also get rude comments from my friends, all of whom have short hair (slightly below the shoulder at the longest). They always insist that I cut my hair simply because it's "too long". When I'm at a sleep-over and wear a silk bonnet to bed, they'd say I look weird. I've also had this bun comment too, just like you. I find that for some reason, most girls who have relatively short hair and those who don't care for growing out their hair just can't seem to accept our different approaches to hair care.

Medievalmaniac
August 25th, 2009, 03:57 AM
Oh thanks for those matronly updo photos. Would like to find some photos of women around my age with updos!

Ask, and ye shall receive!: *waves magic wand*

http://media.photobucket.com/image/susan%20sarandon/DavidSanfordE/susan_sarandon_front.jpg

(Know where I found this pic of the divine Ms. S.? On a 29 year old guy's Myspace page... So There! lol)


file:///C:/Users/nick/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot-3.pnghttp://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/10/09/article-0-02F4A5DE00000578-257_306x423.jpg

file:///C:/Users/nick/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot-4.pnghttp://hunternuttall.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/meryl-streep.jpg

GlennaGirl
August 25th, 2009, 01:50 PM
Does anybody think wearing a scrunchee around the base of the bun makes it look less old-lady-ish? (I AM a matron, BTW. :D )

Woven Darkness
August 25th, 2009, 02:34 PM
About 8 months ago I started using henna, and went from natural golden blonde to a mid-range henna red. I can not believe the amount of comments I get - interestingly, the comments from men are all VERY flattering and the comments from women are, without exception, rude, catty and nasty. Women who have known me for a while always make quite a point out of loudly proclaiming 'she used to be blonde' .... After polling a few people whose opinions I trust, and being reassured that the red was stunning and gorgeous, I've decided to just ignore the comments. Why stoop to their level? (ok, I really want to level them with some cutting reply, but karma dictates that I behave....)

Your friend was rude; let it go!

WD

Amara
August 25th, 2009, 02:49 PM
Matronly implies both that she was trying to offend you - or at least not being terribly careful not too - and also the underlying social acceptability of age-ism - she thought 'matronly' wasn't something you'd want to look like, and thought you'd agree.

Sad. I'm sorry you had to face that situation! :flower:

heatherdazy
August 25th, 2009, 02:49 PM
Does anybody think wearing a scrunchee around the base of the bun makes it look less old-lady-ish? (I AM a matron, BTW. :D )
I don't think so... I personally would avoid unnecessary public scrunchi usage.

GlennaGirl
August 25th, 2009, 03:59 PM
I don't think so... I personally would avoid unnecessary public scrunchi usage.

Why's that?

Gulbahar
August 26th, 2009, 06:30 AM
I don't think so... I personally would avoid unnecessary public scrunchi usage.
Me too. I dont really like the look of scrunchies. :)

Maddy25
August 26th, 2009, 07:12 AM
I personally think updos, buns, and french braids look very classy. I love when I see a girl my age (I'm 21) where those beautiful hairstyles because it really shows off their faces and I find it gives off the impression that they care about and respect themselvs. It's very refreshing to see a well done bun on a younger woman rather than a flat ironed puffy "I think Im so hot" mess.

euphrasyne
August 26th, 2009, 07:18 AM
Matron--woman of good social standing in charge or overseeing something important. Why is this a bad thing? Matronly isn't dowdy. Perhaps your friend needs to go back to school.

On the off--side: Personally, I've never cared if I look younger or older. I'm way past 20 and I remember the extremely stupid things people did at that age. I think I have more to offer today than I did when I was younger. I didn't see the obsession with youth then and I still don't see it.

I'm a grown woman--responsible, smart, sometimes sexy, sometimes tired; I have a good life. I earned each and every wrinkle that I have.

No one needs to look 'Young' to feel good about herself.

cheryl

chotee
August 26th, 2009, 07:20 AM
I am sure we will all feel bad if a friend or someone close says something like that but i personally feel we have to take it with a "pinch of salt" in the sense we are living in the 21st century where almost majority of people dye, straighten, color, burn or perm their hair and when such people see our kind who just don't do anything i guess most of them don't understand "why?" or they think we are outdated. I have all my friends who do something or the other to their hair when they meet everytime and i am the one who does nothing and i see their point of view...but i know i am happy with my hair the way it is. But at times i do feel and look "matronly" especially when i have a tight bun with oil in it but i know that there is a reason and for long hair i cannot have it open and loose all the time....

frizzinator
August 30th, 2009, 02:12 PM
Maybe the flexi-8 is aging your updo. I think they look charmingly old-fashioned, compared to most of the other hair toys we love around here.


I used to take a lot of updo photos. I saw problems in those photos that I never saw when I looked at the back of my head in the mirror. For example, some hair toys look boring in my hair, some are the wrong color for me, and some hair toys only look good with a certain updo and look terrible with other hair styles.


When you compare a number of the photos you make of different hair styles using all your hair toys, the easier it will be for you to see what your friends are seeing. You will learn how to see subtle things, such as if a hair toy is stealing attention away from your hair.

rhubarbarin
August 30th, 2009, 03:07 PM
Why's that?

Not seeking to offend any of the many scrunchie lovers - but - they give me a flashback to 1993. The same feeling as acid-washed jeans, or spiked, gelled hair on boys. :o

11eleven
August 30th, 2009, 08:19 PM
In my opinion hair in an updo is classy and depending on the style can be stylish, beautiful, cute, fun, polished ect. If you feel good and are happy with the way you look with your hair up then that's all that matters :)

11eleven
August 30th, 2009, 08:23 PM
I just read what Euphrasyne said "On the off--side: Personally, I've never cared if I look younger or older. I'm way past 20 and I remember the extremely stupid things people did at that age. I think I have more to offer today than I did when I was younger. I didn't see the obsession with youth then and I still don't see it.

I'm a grown woman--responsible, smart, sometimes sexy, sometimes tired; I have a good life. I earned each and every wrinkle that I have. "

Wow very insperational and wise. I am going to apply this to myself!