How do you tell if your hair needs oil or protein?

[levelek]

Sorry for the rookie question :) I still haven't figured this one out. It only gets more confusing when people say things like "oils do not moisturise hair". Is there a "hair needs oils" kind of dry and brittle, as opposed to a "needs protein" kind of dry and brittle, in addition to a "needs to lock in moisture somehow" kind?

I generally just tend to oil it, whether dry or wet, when it's feeling like it's lacking moisture, and that seems to fix it. I'm just curious about how this is supposed to work.

[tiny_teesha]

Their is a moisture and portein balance. Moisture is given with honey, water, or conditioners not containing soya or wheat products. The soya and wheat are proteins. Grab a hair and snap it. If it stretches a lot, then it needs more protein, if it snaps it needs more moisture.
There is a more accurate and thorough page on it's own site, i don't have it on hand though, sorry!
Oil merely helps keep the moisture in hair for longer or snapping it in, some oils (avo, coconut, olive) penetrate the hair. So in that matter oils add lubrication as well as locking in moisture, or locking out moisture. It depends what works for your hair really. Lack of protein makes the hair stretch out of shape, and i could be wrong but i think it doesn't return to its former shape so that weakens it and makes it feel like moosh in the shower i think. Protein adds strength almost. Too much stops its flexibility so it just snaps. You need the right balance. Usually a once month protein treatment is enough. Depending again on your hairs tastes and your routine and environment.
this (http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/278612/the_fine_art_of_protein_and_moisture.html) site chats a bit about it but it is not the one i have in mind, i'm hunting it down for you though!...actually i'm pretty sure that site is it, it definately contains all the info you need and i was pretty spot on with my recallation!

[ChloeDharma]

I think Tiny Teesha mainly covered it.

The thing about oils not moisturising isn't entirely true. In one study they tested coconut oil and found that instead of blocking moisture out or locking it in, it acted more like a diffuser (i think thats the right word) slowing the passing of water (moisture) in and out of the hair so in effect it did maintain moisture better.
Here's a link explaining it better...

http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/bsc/ics/2008/00000030/00000001/art00010

HTH :)

[Kazazi]

Great info! I am still very new here and had been wondering about all this, too. So do people do monthly or so protein treatments even before the hair gets to the 'stretchy' state? And what do you use for them?

[tiny_teesha]

Well it is best to do the protien treatments when your hair needs it is best, but some people just choose to work it as routine. everyone's hair is different and changes. Last year all my hair wanted was protein, then randomly this year it decided it hated the stuff! So i've been off protein for 2 months and my hair is great, it is only now just starting to ask for some protein so i am useing a protein conditioner until it stops being slightly stretchy.

[Patrycja]

I know that my hair needs protein(my strands strech) but everytime I use it,it looks dull and rough.I don't do it often since I get those results.What can make proteins more agreeable?

[birdiefu]

My hair likes protein, but if I do a protein treatment I must *always* follow with a moisture treatment, otherwise it feels crunchy. But the total effect after a protein and then moisture treatment results in much nicer hair than just moisture itself. However, I don't do heavy protein often, just every couple weeks or so. Small amounts of protein in regular conditioners don't bother my hair, but some people can get overload from them.

I don't really do a hair test to determine what my hair needs- it's hard for me to get accurate results since I'm not sure if the hair is slipping between my fingers (even though I have it wrapped around at each end) as I stretch it or not. I go off the general feel and behavior of my hair (wet and dry) and what any recent treatments (or lack of) I've done.

[ChloeDharma]

I know that my hair needs protein(my strands strech) but everytime I use it,it looks dull and rough.I don't do it often since I get those results.What can make proteins more agreeable?

Alot of people do like Birdiefu suggested and do a kind of 2 step protein then moisture treatment. Have you tried this?

[Druid of Alba]

You should say moisture or protein. Oil doesn't moisturize hair, it only acts as a "wall", and it keeps moisture that is in in, and moisture that is out out. So, to moisturize hair, you need to use a moisturizing treatment, then apply oil to keep the moisture in. If your hair strectches a lot, it needs protein, if it snaps and hardly stretches at all, it needs moisture.

[Patrycja]

hmmm..no I haven't.Off I go to the recipe forum and find a moisture treatment that I hopefully won't mess up :D

Thanks!

[levelek]

Lots of replies! And even an ingenta article :) Thank you, all :flowers:


You should say moisture or protein. Oil doesn't moisturize hair, it only acts as a "wall", and it keeps moisture that is in in, and moisture that is out out. [snip]

I heard this before, but the odd thing is that if I apply oil on dry, crunchy hair - ie without first wetting my hair or otherwise putting in "moisture" - it still results in softer, non-crunchy hair (unless I overload). There have been threads about this too, with some people finding that dry oiling works for them, and others for whom only wet oiling works.

If this is only the illusion of being moisturised, oil must still be doing something else besides acting as a moisture barrier. Perhaps diffusion might explain this too? But I find this effect with EVOO and jojoba as well, not only coconut.

[ChloeDharma]

It's not that odd Levelek, also bear in mind there are other factors like EFA's involved. Also.....we have to be careful not to assume that because only coconut oil was studied that's the only oil to have that effect. For a while it was common to hear advice given that only coconut oil could penetrate the hair based on a study into the ability of coconut, sunflower and mineral oils......but other oils are able to as well....ie olive oil.
If you are having success with any other oil then that's great and not anything to worry about :)

Druid of Alba....i put a link in a thread you started on oils as moisturisers....you might want to take a look ;)

Ilovemycop....an SMT (1 part honey, 1 part aloe gel and 2 parts conditioner) is a popular moisture treatment to go with protein ones....let us know how you get on :)

[brok3nwings]

Is the GPB from Aubrey Organics a Protein conditioner? Or it should have more protein to be considered? Its the only one i have with protein...if not is any other way of doing a protein treatment? I think that´s what my hair is needing and i wasnt reallizing..cause ive been giving it a lot of moisture and still it feels wierd, i cant pass the comb through it. Do you think it is my case? Its because two weeks ago my hair was perfect and i havent change my routine (just two experiments with shampoo bars and vinegar rinses)

[Kazazi]

So what is everybody's favourite protein treatment? Is there a good, cheap homemade option?

[PhillyGirl1978@]

What about carrot oil? Does that moisturize or just keep moisture in?

[spidermom]

The last time I saw "carrot oil" for sale, the first ingredient on the label was mineral oil. What does your label say?

[PhillyGirl1978@]

The last time I saw "carrot oil" for sale, the first ingredient on the label was mineral oil. What does your label say?

Mine says soybean oil

[sipnsun]

I also have to follow up my protein treatments with a deep conditioning moisturizing treatment. I guess my hair needs more moisture though, because mine snaps very easily. I always thought that was because it is so fine.

[ChloeDharma]

So what is everybody's favourite protein treatment? Is there a good, cheap homemade option?

I'm not an absolute expert on protein treatments, but i count using yogurt as one and always find it gives good results. well except when i missed a section rinsing it out once and stunk like baby-spew.....even so, my hair was shiney :p

Egg yolk is said to be good too......oooh just a thought, but what about soya milk as a soak? Or soya yogurt....those have protein and soya seems quite compatable with hair.

[intothemist1999]

Their is a moisture and portein balance. Moisture is given with honey, water, or conditioners not containing soya or wheat products. The soya and wheat are proteins. Grab a hair and snap it. If it stretches a lot, then it needs more protein, if it snaps it needs more moisture.


Hey, thanks for that clear explanation, tiny_teesha!! :cheer:

Since joining I haven't even gone NEAR the protein discussions! I'm wrapping my head around the other stuff I've learned so far.

It's very timely though, since just yesterday I was sitting on the couch and looking at my ends (which I never do) and one was sticking out beyond the others (course, haven't had a trim in ages). I pulled it because I thought maybe it was loose, but nope, it was attached...and BOY did that sucker stretch! I couldn't believe it!

I didn't realize the wheat is a protein. I bought a new conditioner for my CO and it has wheat protein in it, so I'll be interested to see how it works out.

[Kazazi]

Very interesting. i think i will mess with yoghurt, egg yolks and soy a bit this week then :D

Thanks!

[1nuitblanche]

This is really interesting! From reading this thread I think I understand better about oiling hair and I know what protein treatments are for! Sweet.

[spidermom]

Truly - when we're talking about hair and skin, oil IS moisturizing. When you have dry hands, it doesn't help to rub them with water, does it? No - you'll probably grab a lotion, which contains - SURPRISE! - oils. Same with hair. You can wet it all day long and it will never become one iota more moisturized. You need the oil.

[missy60]

Hey, thanks for that clear explanation, tiny_teesha!! :cheer:

Since joining I haven't even gone NEAR the protein discussions! I'm wrapping my head around the other stuff I've learned so far.

It's very timely though, since just yesterday I was sitting on the couch and looking at my ends (which I never do) and one was sticking out beyond the others (course, haven't had a trim in ages). I pulled it because I thought maybe it was loose, but nope, it was attached...and BOY did that sucker stretch! I couldn't believe it!

I didn't realize the wheat is a protein. I bought a new conditioner for my CO and it has wheat protein in it, so I'll be interested to see how it works out.

Thats exactly how my hair does when it needs a protein treatment. I comb my hair with conditioner in the shower and when some hairs stretch like this longer then others I always know its time to do a protein treatment.

brok3nwings if thats what you have I would start with that and see how my hair responds if it is still stretchy then you can move up to a stronger protein treatment.

This might be the article you were talking about it also tells some protein conditioner and their level of protein http://blackbeautyblackhair86911.yuku.com/topic/511/t/Hair-Breakage-and-Shedding-101.html

[Faepirate]

Truly - when we're talking about hair and skin, oil IS moisturizing. When you have dry hands, it doesn't help to rub them with water, does it? No - you'll probably grab a lotion, which contains - SURPRISE! - oils. Same with hair. You can wet it all day long and it will never become one iota more moisturized. You need the oil.

See, I'm glad you said this because that's what I thought!
I've been getting very confused with all this "moisture = wet" business...

[Calista]

Spidermom, a lotion is a mixture of oil and water. Take a look at the ingredients´ list, there´s bound to something like water or aqua or whatever there.

If you use pure oil on your skin you usually apply it to slightly damp skin, thus locking in the moisture with the oil.

[Leisa]

Truly - when we're talking about hair and skin, oil IS moisturizing. When you have dry hands, it doesn't help to rub them with water, does it? No - you'll probably grab a lotion, which contains - SURPRISE! - oils. Same with hair. You can wet it all day long and it will never become one iota more moisturized. You need the oil.


I also thought that wet hair was moisturized hair. I thought if I wet my hair, soaking wet, twice a day, that that would prevent it from getting dried out.

Hmm.. I might be on the wrong path ...

I also thought, that if I had to use shampoo to remove the oil, then the moisture I locked in with the oil, is now stripped by the shampoo? True or false?

I'm glad you raised this point Spidermom, I never really thought about it until now but you're right, water does not alleviate dry skin, so why do I think it alleviates dry hair?

[Calista]

Leisa, if you wet your skin it will be moisturized for the moment. But eventually the water evaporates, taking even more moisture from the skin with it. That´s why your skin feels dry if you leave it to air-dry. The same goes for your hair. Oil helps to seal in the water, so it cannot evaporate as easily.

[Just_Isabel]

Ok, I'll admit that in all my time here at TLHC I've never really looked into this protein thing... :o but this thread was very informative, and it looks like my hair needs protein.

So I have a question: what happens if I don't do anything about it?


*off to search for recipes*

[janicelesa]

Truly - when we're talking about hair and skin, oil IS moisturizing. When you have dry hands, it doesn't help to rub them with water, does it? No - you'll probably grab a lotion, which contains - SURPRISE! - oils. Same with hair. You can wet it all day long and it will never become one iota more moisturized. You need the oil.

Good point, makes a lot of sense

[janicelesa]

Is the GPB from Aubrey Organics a Protein conditioner? Or it should have more protein to be considered? Its the only one i have with protein...if not is any other way of doing a protein treatment? I think that´s what my hair is needing and i wasnt reallizing..cause ive been giving it a lot of moisture and still it feels wierd, i cant pass the comb through it. Do you think it is my case? Its because two weeks ago my hair was perfect and i havent change my routine (just two experiments with shampoo bars and vinegar rinses)

I wonder if the shampoo bars and vinegar rinses had any effect on the balance of your hair. Does anyone know? I do believe the Aubrey Organics GPB is a protein conditioner. I've used it sometime ago, can't remember exactly what effect I got, but don't remember being motivated to use it regularly.

[Dolly]

Truly - when we're talking about hair and skin, oil IS moisturizing. When you have dry hands, it doesn't help to rub them with water, does it? No - you'll probably grab a lotion, which contains - SURPRISE! - oils. Same with hair. You can wet it all day long and it will never become one iota more moisturized. You need the oil.


That's what I have been thinking every time I read one of the oil discussions on here. When my hair needs moisture, I use coconut oil on my dry hair, and it gives me great results (I do not oil wet, or I cannot get the oil out of my hair).....I also use only pure coconut oil or shea butter on my dry skin......works better than a lotion that contains water or using on damp skin......no water involved....only oils!


BTW, Spidermom, your hair is breathtaking!

[Gvnagitlvgei]

Someone explained to me that if the hair is soppy spongy and breaking easily after a wash, it needs protein. If it's dry, stiff and unpliable with ends breaking off, it need moisture. I think a good protein treatment bi-weekly or monthly is good, as long as it's followed by a moisturing conditioner (no protein in it). But daily moisturizing of some sort is necessary to keep the balance.

[arjay.d]

Does it need the protein if it is stretchy when wet or is that just the result of being wet?

[Anje]

Does it need the protein if it is stretchy when wet or is that just the result of being wet?
Depends how stretchy you're talking about. Some stretch is OK and desirable. Ideally, you should be able to stretch a single wet hair to about 125% or 133% of its length and have it rebound to its normal length. If it stretches much further than that or doesn't rebound, you probably need protein. If it doesn't make it as far as that before breaking, either you just sampled a weak hair, or your hair could use more moisture and less protein.