The henna/cassia thread

[Jewels707]

I just did my first cassia/henna gloss.
It was my first time doing any at home coloring so I didn't want to commit to a full treatment. I used 3 Tbls cassia, 1Tbls henna (both henna guys) mixed with 3/4 cup hot water, released for one hour, then mixed with 1 cup, "Jessie Curl" natural conditioner (locally made where I live but available on Amazon).
I then covered my mix and left it to sit for a few more hours. I applied to just washed whole head of hair, covered with plastic shower cap and drier warmed towel for 1 hour, then rinsed. The color change was very subtle (see attached photo)
so I think I will try again in a few days with an additional Tbls of henna and 1/2 tsp lemon juice. Any thoughts or advise appreciated as I am an amateur. ☺ https://photos.app.goo.gl/9MQhnbsIr1rhEZ3i2

[Jewels707]

I apologize if this is a duplicate post. I am new and trying to figure things out. :-) I just did my first natural hair color of any kind with a cassia henna gloss. I mixed 1 tablespoon henna with three tablespoons cassia (both from The Henna Guys) and let that develop with three fourths a cup of hot water for an hour. Then, I added one cup of a locally made natural hair conditioner called, "Jessie Curl" (available on Amazon) and let that sit under plastic wrap for several more hours. I applied the entire mixture to my freshly washed hair, covered it with a plastic shower cap, and wrapped it with a hot towel from the dryer for an hour. I then got in the shower and rinsed it all out without rewashing or conditioning. I did add some Aveda moisturizing oil to my damp https://photos.app.goo.gl/9MQhnbsIr1rhEZ3i2hair for hydration. It was a very subtle color change. I will attempt to add a before and after picture. I think next time I will add another tablespoon of henna and 1/2 teaspoon of lemon juice to get a bit more red. Any advice or comments for this amateur are welcome. Thanks in advance!

[jackie75]

Hi guys! Been several yrs since I posted here. I've been sporting a pixie with an undercut for a while, bleaching it to a plantinum blonde. I decided I was never going to get my hair long again using chemicals, so I decided to go with henna again.

Yesterday I did a 50/50 henna/cassia mix with moroccan henna. Hopefully the bozo orange calms down a bit in a few days, but it really has helped with the bleach damage. I nearly forgot how to take a pic of the back of my head, lol! http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v385/hbamcmama/20171206_234216_zpsrivgqxxi.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/hbamcmama/media/20171206_234216_zpsrivgqxxi.jpg.html)

[Antrax23]

Hello everyone
A henna newbie asking for help to the henna experts.
My natural hair color is something like this https://i.pinimg.com/564x/09/3e/d5/093ed5899ae940c7298b1011241540fb.jpg and bleaches a little in the sun, so my ends are lighter.
I really want to try henna and would like to get a color like this https://i.pinimg.com/564x/68/ec/1c/68ec1cfa4dcdcdda15120fd971ae938f.jpg
Someone could recommend a recipe of a henna/cassia (or other herbs) mix that could give me something similar?
Thank you!

[Nightshade]

I can't see your pictures (likely a function of them being blocked at work), but I'll try to remember to check back later and see :)

[Blue Mermaid]

I don't think it's you, Nightshade. The picture isn't working for me either..

[Antrax23]

Sorry!
I'll try again

So this is more or less my hair color
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-81hM-pNu2Xk/VqXXXLqdq6I/AAAAAAAAANw/khI2lE_r0kY/s1600/Brown_Hair_Color_135.jpg
And this is what I want
http://heycarpediem.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/IMG_6461c.jpg.pagespeed.ce.aOwc-k3Nzd.jpg
I hope it works now :)

[Nightshade]

The before color is pretty close to my natural color. I do Fire Genasi (which is 35% henna, 65% cassia and other herbs) and get this:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/o8xCIneU-3HoUTr3lIEyZ_KRMHaTYKEY-15O6X5zpa_JVAApYbmN5KD98K-8sWetMzyvUEbNGKxUClHUcIzj_tNpV7M2j9LOUcCQ8ozZniIPL IBKLEoNeBCf_61Hy5Agw9jy1FMJnvzcl7UivLc5iV9lbyqi6ih vM4tm7t-X7fU0RcLJo0nQ66ato_JAJeqKcr3J-a_sMK01lOrUy6vcFKHQl_udm85PEDXfZOgB6moiXJ6RhjOhPVh R-9U1u5IgaLXk8sSx1pHd0Os6fpNUkbJ_aJDzKHexavOcsLZ7ot4 1dYgHPnx_Ab__W3YXoyfbphr1uN8Xcs9Yv-6SKb-k4IogXkI-iHznlSM6NNZmeoVIRi352qoOzwPcQfSlHQrVq9dzrSHmqVhRX1 uqHhWk7vODO6WjocOG1RxbTo9qvRr5yni-1DvBM1n-cpWkdU_jNsIMAIXGDEPW026Ckxhz2jIV7NgyY2LxrbZsXuILjm I-xygq9KBpoXkQ5zR8k60YpSDshyGP33csb9HOqQG7abYUV38UjH Y5af_24IIcaD0My9oklebN2SblefRaiTW5KyXXgaIRnxAwx-NhSujNNrhmBDf9OfbdHKjakJWCPMQgxB3OOyI_sVZi-jONoWtY2FRFq_J4q253CmlxwlP45nJi9r56jelp3w=w400-h600-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/15Db2-9OCOwhn3T6Bqm0Yt1ezQMtTY112PILGeqgz_pKBqNeUdhC2QoT Af-T_HTgNbCN86GPDyT-xzX-lUvaSotF3WaKCiXd9tLhnr3MkZ9WSDgAO-sKGbXD3GVmsXHhoMR5ZpbsYRJBqItrVSx6hhG4qUwjcRNyVdKG 4V9UCOIi6FCtlwoZ9SWHpUX5O-24jyvAxR6GOYFyPtwL1zVOkJT2FMiyjseET_wnD02Y_T5EGJN0 jFlv3WsP_jmi2QrpSe_dvwr_JBEDm_5_0E9Px5qo2hC49y3-uBdUXxLJFElcKV0wxsiov_ufIDEBnnb86LuYUBzm5sO_QiUXsC sBA_5DTYxa-FxRuowqe25u2MSNasnjWI7h9GJUJhvbmKxDnMvndbhxPeaPM24 lV0ORO0I-1jzqWE50pVTacdNo-DH27DKKxGm9_ng8n_XrTMBBm36TwlnEjcgb2A1TWv9L4UP0PeD ngJTTFQH8YFVraEVYplqULJR_jMjHFNB3ZqW0rDw4UsK8Ai4Li DaCDakbxHefJHSVS-wlzRhVNJz0w8YuhCgLCk30HZTg9A-xWbb-8ifVNGI-BOT92bDVnK_auDXjxycB7URFRzp6jgcw2Y3kWOfqhv0AwWTI2B 7eXBticfL-aAquHo0rMRUa536QTWXzPIAKLhPETg=w642-h856-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/wL26Zk6cCukotffsGWtt4RrfwNWgnVcQeuo9c66xbJ_u6m6--qqqmjTJ902U1nMArVJVNMJqufMUmkD9APElZYXh_AyXIaC0BkN 30XaDQDhkMwgsOM1CUPhOGiqyqWXUf6xElJxVsue_9SueZU5eI UVqJtcRzbCDqb9xoend7Sm-MHlSgQviVnUXXe0fVhd1vIcIFzmXdWPLnylu3FapWIh2SyaKaC z2C62IPPK9qhdoi-BJ5y_m0mVK0ndxR2R4-DSmzv65vJ5eRtvPulfAP48i8jNQ0K06fnujrxEHXsZsJ19GTHc nrLULjwTflwr3wm3i3RQINxpV5wxnWDyXJYWnxkwdHbdxJB-JVLa0uN3iGzZ9pkSOOBEhLzrzmQu_TuFSr2qDVbNIOcDtSV_e1 PBF2jjuBbyV9_wsvWZiFRZIYsGEEWm3Sdgmzz6ScR0VjcQz2TN aS6e2Wc1xXljW24TKIWNyV_Z23KSnXFSqbisY9fgXRYpAliStW 59v92yQfwBt9z6vqu_Lutw4mm5CNODPKVLJJbOhD3DYI6kzgnG-MYSfHdlhakdPQf0fzixW-Acvy57-BePBGd7AlDpKZdC7UuAxQwFtWpxzoZBZpzpgSnp95ju_SrnwQt 4QuLz9w9BypcGosxJlyTQcjfYolNBiE_vtadyHHA=w596-h856-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/wj_jyLuR3iNIYRWhHQt7ONFKln0yCI3VZQfk2Jb0sFEZM9ms6O K7ss4KL8SVRTUVygxgj2gUHIP-ci-ZzXtqST8ZYFkGRspn8grtut6cixNwdUjyovoVP0OkU6wuu5a_K jzjdP4VKKbqftcXOefMSzYs5JSQwbnhp04Khu-TV1g59g29wP1_f8y7YKdketa_MaGClv9c5yziED0eE9LA9YkKA bDV_p9ij29xCl1em991SgHHui1yZTWzH0TtDRlyo-x5kwOzKcS1pl1rUSLZ6e86ujMduPIjIzQWiNA2lu-9EsnytCX3aJMKthNTBgvP4K19l5xXdG1IwiYuOTS0AjFN0yUpQ-MUs4Y10jhDbQL9ev-ncO7GaQhNx7klRpEGr8M4Qh-s5CJphp44sK3Jrnuu9y2tZbmMgJr3FW31gk_B07L7vIcKChANf 3am0MsWR2qIweuHNmjgaAS80ljdW_Rh725_FkBFfm9_hLN84P6 MLQt77cF7j4KvXiOX7RLMYP60Spp5yhlnAdnWWmtN1qmCAQhel AMUnzJ-dSss43y-CnWEsh5s03J8MWquxxGr_chLCjMqlWw9IJySx92jHw_X_2bZkd m2kKBlWGvdhqc0YAsuEqC8CWLXPc3ABzLE7nFrRPA027cPtZEz ngpCpUrdNiERuRisHQ=w577-h856-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/tpY_6ncvuGZAfHadWuDCcP9vWCLf43AjiHTbCCxPlmTHpnur5I I_k4zXVnGzSX2dJgq6LKGKuieXirb5lkHgf9VnXcm-Hh5KEvQQVptkOdObLQQgS_c0rvZAHR6AXY3Z7bOfHyIVTsnBxI dQhbuUv3SoRxYdlbYe7Fqx-Z1BY0s1VFBcZMu7KDPTy4fwSlo0g6mpbXimpb9DwNFzKZpngbn Z-Vpkl68hSZ03IIKy_f_7qVF5I_p_h_S44vVxLj8kAGnziff_W2y qpC-3q7uAf3YR7iF-XkSxY1zPWeugm7fkf3Qr7i7S0AgGa5so_GkCmLBS-a9s43aUBZ2s9sr2Ynb7cbdZ6lfJ-ll63D07l2M8bnFRPcN4FmCYe1ubs5DPm8bahtF25qB2cxeXjkC t4fhPn-g2_pHvJxFlm4RQ1RZ9xFYnA6U9U9ZjpmMsxT8cq4yrY08Rz5Qi q7xuwDAYNijMUP4p7GwYAkKG9mV6cB-Rjw0rpCwywpQtHKvZwEasPfALp1Ic6S8AE5_ILFgG0HrBX8Z4-C8d_EmBQuIrrOHg7rGmqO92A8iJ7EIJBn8UgSfxGv6fuPKGqrF An4aG2eZS4IzIVGrFXNh_n1TEuLAy_T5zlzik-oq7C15MM_nmf_uB1G6kOe6xo0bH2rQUxBHspHyVVn7gMw=w434-h856-no

I mix everything up with steaming hot water, let it dye release for 4 hours on the warming burner of my stove, and then apply it and leave it on for 3 hours :) At this point I do roots-only because the length doesn't fade.

[Antrax23]

Thank you Nightshade!
I’ll try soon and upload some before and after pictures :)

[Antrax23]

I mixed 50g of henna with 100g of cassia, added water and let it dye release, and then added a bit of coconut milk (because my hair is quite dry). Do you think that should be enough for my hole head with my hair type or should I mix some more? Thanks!

[Nightshade]

I mixed 50g of henna with 100g of cassia, added water and let it dye release, and then added a bit of coconut milk (because my hair is quite dry). Do you think that should be enough for my hole head with my hair type or should I mix some more? Thanks!

Your hair type looks similar to mine, if not a bit thicker, so I think that'd be enough :)

[Antrax23]

So I did it today! I’ll post pictures in a few days once the color is settled.

[Antrax23]

So this is my natural hair color a few months ago
http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k496/anetiriri/63B27CA2-D637-4414-B45E-5D6F93523B06.jpeg

And this is after the henna:cassia mix
http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k496/anetiriri/EA02D50A-FE9B-47D3-8244-E0575DABF972.jpeg

[Antrax23]

Ups, I’m sorry for the huge pictures :(

[LexI bright]

It looks beautiful Antrax23, so natural!!

[Antrax23]

Thank you! I am very happy with the color :)

[Nightshade]

That looks lovely and very natural Antrax23

[tangocurl]

Gorgeous! What a pretty braid!

[Antrax23]

Thanks you all :) And thank you Nightshade for the help.
When doing your roots only, how do you avoid overlapping? I’m worried overlapping can leave darker/redder patches, does that happen?

[Nightshade]

Thanks you all :) And thank you Nightshade for the help.
When doing your roots only, how do you avoid overlapping? I’m worried overlapping can leave darker/redder patches, does that happen?

It won't :) My husband does my roots for me and always winds up overlapping, sometimes by a few inches. Henna doesn't build up that fast, and henna/cassia blends even less so. You don't have to be neat at all doing roots. It's more important to make sure your roots are covered than avoiding any overlap.

[Antrax23]

Thank you! My boyfriend had a good time slapping my head with the mud, so I don't think it will be difficult to convince him to do my roots :)

[chomsky]

Anthrax your hair colour is just stunning! :o

[Medievalmaniac]

So this is my natural hair color a few months ago
http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k496/anetiriri/63B27CA2-D637-4414-B45E-5D6F93523B06.jpeg

And this is after the henna:cassia mix
http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k496/anetiriri/EA02D50A-FE9B-47D3-8244-E0575DABF972.jpeg

It turned out beautifully!

[Antrax23]

Thank you :). I really like the shine it gives and how it keeps my natural highlights, not like regular hair dye.

[CopperButterfly]

So I've read that cassia fades, but henna doesn't. I've recently done a 50/50 cassia henna on my hair, I really like it. I was wondering though, has anyone noticed a color change from cassia fading from a henna/ cassia mix? Or is the color you get, being mostly from the henna anyway pretty much stay the same?

[Nightshade]

So I've read that cassia fades, but henna doesn't. I've recently done a 50/50 cassia henna on my hair, I really like it. I was wondering though, has anyone noticed a color change from cassia fading from a henna/ cassia mix? Or is the color you get, being mostly from the henna anyway pretty much stay the same?

It can/does fade a little, but not much. It might lose a little of it's golden tones, but it also holds onto a good part of it forever, unlike with just straight cassia :)

[CopperButterfly]

Thank you! That sounds like something I can live with.

[Milady_DeWinter]

I'm giving my remaining cassia to a friend as I'm not using it anymore, but I have a question :) Does the cassia alone change the curl pattern as henna does? I mean, the straightening effect. My friend is kind of a 2a, and doesn't want to lose waviness.

Thank you very much! :D

[AshtangiPNW]

Cherry Sprinkle, what was your starting color before the henna? :-)

[AshtangiPNW]

Wow, this turned out phenomenal Antrax23! :-) Where did you buy your henna & cassia from? :-) Did you let it sit for the 4 hours on a warm burner? How long did you apply? Sorry for all the questions! I'm new to henna :-)

[ironmoon]

So I did my first henna application about a month ago. My hair is a very ashy light brown / dark blonde (a light level 6). I used a mix that was 1/3 jamila henna and 2/3's cassia, and left it on for about 4 hours on clean, dry hair. I wound up using about 400 grams, and used hot chamomile tea for my liquid.

The color came out on most of my hair (although more subtle than I was expecting), although it didn't take quite as well on the first 3 or 4 inches of my hair. Now a month later it has faded all over, but even more so on those first 3-4 inches...it's almost as if it's completely gone from there. I suppose my roots are quite resistant for some reason, although I have little to no grey. We do have quite hard water where I live, so a few days ago I bought a chelating shampoo to use on my roots before the next time.

At this point, the majority of my hair is at what I'd call a marigold or soft strawberry color, and while it's quite lovely I'd like to get it to something a little more copper/ orange.
So I need to do my roots soon, and I think I have three options:

Another all over application of the 1/3 henna 2/3's cassia mix.

An all over application, using maybe 40-50 percent henna.

Do my roots and the first few inches of hair that didn't take well with the 1/3 henna 2/3's cassia mixture, and do some henna glosses later to up the intensity of the red.

Which would you all recommend? I'd prefer one of the all over applications, as I'd rather get it done in one shot for my sanity. I suppose which one of those would be better would depend on how much henna builds up from different applications ( I'm hoping to avoid the burgundy look) and how much fading is typical.

[AshtangiPNW]

Hi there ironmoon! Welcome to henna-ing :) I'm not entirely sure how this would turn out on your hair. Henna results vary so markedly from one person to the next. My best suggestions would be to (i) strand test just the roots (ii) strand test an entire full-length strand (iii) make sure you wait 5 days or so for the oxidation before proceeding with the overall henna-ing (iv) to preserve sanity, you might consider getting in touch with Nightblooming on Etsy. She would likely be able to provide excellent guidance and also has a book that could help with lots of henna-ing tips. :)

[CopperButterfly]

So I did my first henna application about a month ago. My hair is a very ashy light brown / dark blonde (a light level 6). I used a mix that was 1/3 jamila henna and 2/3's cassia, and left it on for about 4 hours on clean, dry hair. I wound up using about 400 grams, and used hot chamomile tea for my liquid.

The color came out on most of my hair (although more subtle than I was expecting), although it didn't take quite as well on the first 3 or 4 inches of my hair. Now a month later it has faded all over, but even more so on those first 3-4 inches...it's almost as if it's completely gone from there. I suppose my roots are quite resistant for some reason, although I have little to no grey. We do have quite hard water where I live, so a few days ago I bought a chelating shampoo to use on my roots before the next time.

At this point, the majority of my hair is at what I'd call a marigold or soft strawberry color, and while it's quite lovely I'd like to get it to something a little more copper/ orange.
So I need to do my roots soon, and I think I have three options:

Another all over application of the 1/3 henna 2/3's cassia mix.

An all over application, using maybe 40-50 percent henna.

Do my roots and the first few inches of hair that didn't take well with the 1/3 henna 2/3's cassia mixture, and do some henna glosses later to up the intensity of the red.

Which would you all recommend? I'd prefer one of the all over applications, as I'd rather get it done in one shot for my sanity. I suppose which one of those would be better would depend on how much henna builds up from different applications ( I'm hoping to avoid the burgundy look) and how much fading is typical.

So I would do a second all over application with just a little bit higher henna to cassia ration. If you're at all worried about getting to dark,then I'd do a strand test. I did something similar, where I initially did a 50/50 cassia henna ratio, but wanted more red, so I did another all over 75/25, and really liked the results.

As for your roots, I would make sure they are extra extra clean before you henna. Use your chelating/clarifying shampoo. Any kind of oil can inhibit the henna from binding to the hair.

Also to prevent fading, when you mix your henna next time, I'd wait for the chamomile tea to cool to room temperature before mixing. Hot liquid does make the dye release quicker, but it also make it more prone to fading. I think you'll be happier if you let it cool and then let it sit a little longer for the dye to release.

Good luck! I hope you find a color you love!

[Dixie Derelict]

I finally did THE THING: For my birthday. This was my mix:
8 Tblsp Cassia
1Tblsp Henna (scant tbsp)
1Tblsp Methi
1Tbsp Chandan
1Tblsp Honey
1Tblsp Aloe Vera gel

I am quite pleased with my results: VERY subtle. Don't really see any red to speak of...I seem to have gotten very close to what I was after; richer, more vibrant Cassia glow!
I am using Nupur brand henna from my local Indian store. It's a blend, with 9 other herbs, which I chose thinking it wouldn't be as Intense in color.
(I am guessing I was right about this...)
I was kinda clumsy mixing my mud - it seemed too thin, so I added a tbsp more Cassia and a TINY bit more Henna and gave it another hour or two. (Maybe the tiny bit of Henna smoothed the whole mix out a bit?)
Paul helped me out this time, as it was my birthday. He was really more fun than help, tho!
I am LOVING the effects I seem to have gotten from just this tiny bit - thicker(!) softer; just feels DELIGHTFUL!
It's maybe a little fly- away ish today. I'm gonna let it settle for the day and do an SMT tomorrow, if I still think it's needed.
I am going to do this again next time!

[Dixie Derelict]

Whoa... did I break the internet or something? LOL I have been waiting for a spontaneous response to this little screed for a while now.
I am REALLY thrilled with my results from my little experiment, and am now in need of input on how to keep EXACTLY THIS...Chime in, folks!
Do I do the exact same recipe next month(as is my Cassia routine), or should I just do roots?
OR, should I do our Seeress Nightshade's gloss mix thingy? (I don't wanna keep on picking her brain for free: kinda like inviting the Dr. to dinner just so you can get him to check out yer hideous boils, er something! LOL)

[Nightshade]

Whoa... did I break the internet or something? LOL I have been waiting for a spontaneous response to this little screed for a while now.
I am REALLY thrilled with my results from my little experiment, and am now in need of input on how to keep EXACTLY THIS...Chime in, folks!
Do I do the exact same recipe next month(as is my Cassia routine), or should I just do roots?
OR, should I do our Seeress Nightshade's gloss mix thingy? (I don't wanna keep on picking her brain for free: kinda like inviting the Dr. to dinner just so you can get him to check out yer hideous boils, er something! LOL)

hahahaha people pick my brain for free here, too, it's perfectly okay ;) :)

If you are happy with what you have, I would keep doing exactly what you're doing. If you think you need more staying power, or if you find your color is fading, try the gloss thingee (though if you could remind me what that is, I'd appreciate it) :lol:

[Dixie Derelict]

Gladly! I am going back into the vaults for this:
It's your 'Blonde Boost' from the Henna article.
1Tblsp BAQ Henna
2 Tblsp Cassia
2 Tblsp Camomile Powder
Mix up and cover paste. Wait for dye release. Add 1 cup conditioner(or yogurt), wrap hair in saran wrap, and let sit for at least 2 hours. Rinse well and condition.
I am paraphrasing a little bit, but that's the basic deal.
Thanks, again!
I'll just repeat the whole head deal, in a month...I ordered some herb. Co cassia, tho- so I might HAVE to do a quick Lil treatment when it comes, tho. In less I shouldn't?

[Nightshade]

I don't think you're going to see any color buildup / darkening with the henna with that, but I think because of the tiiiiiiiiny smidge of henna it'll fade less.

So, keep on keeping on with what you're doing. If you're getting color fade, consider the Blonde Boost & Condition.

I think the differences are going to be pretty minimal, so likely no harm in trying one than the other and seeing what you like best!

[Dixie Derelict]

Great! That's what I was hoping to hear!
BTW, I am definitely glad I read and paid attention to your advice about how very STRONG and PERMANENT henna really is: I kept thinking I had added so little that I was sure to see no change at all - but my usual" if ONE is good; FOUR is better" attitude was cooled out by the admonishments of yourself, and others. Thanks sooo much for that!

[Nightshade]

Great! That's what I was hoping to hear!
BTW, I am definitely glad I read and paid attention to your advice about how very STRONG and PERMANENT henna really is: I kept thinking I had added so little that I was sure to see no change at all - but my usual" if ONE is good; FOUR is better" attitude was cooled out by the admonishments of yourself, and others. Thanks sooo much for that!

You are so welcome! :) And aye, that stuff is insanely powerful, so good to add a little bit as you need it!

[Nan]

Oookay, I have a bit of a tricky (?) question: I have naturally mid/dark blonde hair. What would be the LIGHTEST/smallest percentage of henna to cassia if I wanted to just get it to show up reddish... like a strawberry (dark) blonde? Help, anyone?! (I wanna avoid darkening and a strict line between dyed/own hair)

[Nightshade]

Oookay, I have a bit of a tricky (?) question: I have naturally mid/dark blonde hair. What would be the LIGHTEST/smallest percentage of henna to cassia if I wanted to just get it to show up reddish... like a strawberry (dark) blonde? Help, anyone?! (I wanna avoid darkening and a strict line between dyed/own hair)

I would say about 10% henna, but that depends on your base color and how easily your hair takes dye. I'm a light to medium brunette, and nothing shows on me under 20%.

I say start at 5% and work your way up until you see the color you want.

[Nan]

Oh wou! Thanks, Nightshade! I would've WAAAAY over-estimated if it wasn't for you! I'll have to wait till next month to try unfortunately - no visible roots yet ;)

[Nightshade]

Oh wou! Thanks, Nightshade! I would've WAAAAY over-estimated if it wasn't for you! I'll have to wait till next month to try unfortunately - no visible roots yet ;)

hahahaha no problem! good luck!

[Leneveu]

So I've done my testing and ready to put henna and cassia on my head this afternoon! I'm very excited :D

Here are my strand tests.: 12 hours after rinsing (top) and 84 hours after rinsing (bottom).

Indoors:

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1859/30551264128_d196380ac9_z.jpg

Direct sun:

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1898/44370178552_94f8ecfa3d_z.jpg

I really love the 30% henna, but I'm going to be cautious and go with 20% for now.


And here's my starting colour:

https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=33158&d=1535876395

I'm hoping for something quite similar but just a little more coppery/ginger (and to cover my greys :rolleyes:).

[Wendyp]

So I mixed a little chunk of hennasoq with my sanarae and omwow it came out this perfect gold color! My hair is super moisturizer too!! I’ll try to post pics this week! :cheer:

[Nightshade]

So I mixed a little chunk of hennasoq with my sanarae and omwow it came out this perfect gold color! My hair is super moisturizer too!! I’ll try to post pics this week! :cheer:

Oh the Gloss Bar? Awesome :D

[Leneveu]

Wow, henna is powerful stuff (and I was worried it would barely show up at all)! Here's 20% henna, 80% cassia in the sun by the window:

https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=33219&d=1536257893


Much brighter than I was expecting from my strand tests, but I love the colour(s) and how my hair feels :love:

I'm also amazed how different it looks in different lights: from brown or almost burgundy in low light to chestnut and even full-on copper in the sun.

Here's a before and after in indoor lighting:

https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=33217&d=1536257865

[Alex Lou]

Wow, henna is powerful stuff (and I was worried it would barely show up at all)! Here's 20% henna, 80% cassia in the sun by the window:

https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=33219&d=1536257893


Much brighter than I was expecting from my strand tests, but I love the colour(s) and how my hair feels :love:

I'm also amazed how different it looks in different lights: from brown or almost burgundy in low light to chestnut and even full-on copper in the sun.

Here's a before and after in indoor lighting:

https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=33217&d=1536257865

Wow, beautiful color!

[Wendyp]

Oh the Gloss Bar? Awesome :D

Yes! it came out really pretty! we are very hot and our sun is intense in florida so my hair bleaches out a bit in the summer. I was able to add debth without going red!! and my hair is sooooo conditioned :inlove:

[Nightshade]

Yes! it came out really pretty! we are very hot and our sun is intense in florida so my hair bleaches out a bit in the summer. I was able to add debth without going red!! and my hair is sooooo conditioned :inlove:

Oh that's fantastic ^_^

[wispe]

Lenevu, that turned out gorgeous! Love the subtle tint, it really adds dimension.

I got lazy and skipped my root touch up in May, so my last cassia/henna was February 3. The color difference is small enough I hadn’t noticed how long the roots were until I went looking for it, but I’m ready for a refreshed look. Ordered more dye (Serenrae and Rusalki, all the way) and will be getting to it probably weekend after next. So nearly 8months (or ~4” of roots).

Question : if I want to try dying my eyebrows to match since seriously have invisible blonde brows should I try Rusalki on them (I do 2:3 Serenrae/rusalki on my head) or go for straight henna? I think I will be bleaching them first so the color will stain better (I’ve tried to use direct dyes on my brows before and only undiluted MP fuchsia shock stained my natural brows, despite how white they are).

[wispe]

For fun (and future reference) here’s a picture where you can see the difference between my tinted ends and my natural (strawberry blonde) roots, since the roots are about 4 inches long or so in the picture. I didn’t really plan to let them get this long but it’s been nice that the demarcation is subtle and it’s looked nice the whole time. I only really notice it when I wear halfups where the tinted ends sit next to the grown-out roots, and then in only certain lighting. Also, witness the invisible eyebrows (I have lots of hairs there, believe it or not).

https://i.imgur.com/t8FvvqG.jpg?1

[Nightshade]

Question : if I want to try dying my eyebrows to match since seriously have invisible blonde brows should I try Rusalki on them (I do 2:3 Serenrae/rusalki on my head) or go for straight henna? I think I will be bleaching them first so the color will stain better (I’ve tried to use direct dyes on my brows before and only undiluted MP fuchsia shock stained my natural brows, despite how white they are).

Straight henna is the only thing that works for me, personally. I've tried Genasi (which has more henna than Rusalki) and it fades off those hairs in a hurry. Henna fades, too (eyebrows turn hairs over pretty fast), but gets me an extra week or two.

I wrote a guide on how to henna eyebrows here (https://nightbloominggarden.com/2018/03/henna-eyebrows-facial-hair/) :)

[wispe]

Straight henna is the only thing that works for me, personally. I've tried Genasi (which has more henna than Rusalki) and it fades off those hairs in a hurry. Henna fades, too (eyebrows turn hairs over pretty fast), but gets me an extra week or two.

I wrote a guide on how to henna eyebrows here (https://nightbloominggarden.com/2018/03/henna-eyebrows-facial-hair/) :)
Oh, I thought I remembered seeing an article about it but I couldn’t remember where. Thanks for the link! I think I’ll try with my mix next weekend and see if it stains, and in the meantime I’ll probably order some straight henna and give that a go too. :)

[cupcake_drgn]

For fun (and future reference) here’s a picture where you can see the difference between my tinted ends and my natural (strawberry blonde) roots, since the roots are about 4 inches long or so in the picture. I didn’t really plan to let them get this long but it’s been nice that the demarcation is subtle and it’s looked nice the whole time. I only really notice it when I wear halfups where the tinted ends sit next to the grown-out roots, and then in only certain lighting. Also, witness the invisible eyebrows (I have lots of hairs there, believe it or not).

https://i.imgur.com/t8FvvqG.jpg?1

your natural colour is so pretty!

[wispe]

your natural colour is so pretty!

Thank you!

[ironmoon]

I made a post in June on this thread asking for advice about henna that wasn’t seeming to stick (long story short: I used a 1/3 henna 2/3’s cassia blend, it wasn’t nearly as visible as I had expected but I was terrified that another all over application would leave me too dark/ burgundy/ auburn. The brighter/more vibrant/ more orange the better for me.
I wound up doing a gloss last week (I used a 100 grams of jamilla henna mixed with one and a half of the small bottles of v05 conditioner, left on for about 2 1/2 hours ) and it came out pretty much the color I was expecting the first time- pure orange in direct sunglight, a natural light copper indoors. I had several inches of roots and there is hardly a difference in color, if anything they seem slightly less opaque.
I think my results were better this time (despite using no tea and just room temperature water) because of a few different factors. I used distilled water and used a chelating shampoo instead of just a clarifying shampoo and applied as soon as my hair was dry. More importantly, I spent a week at the beach in early september during which I was constantly in salt water. I think this roughing up of the cuticle (I have what a lot of people call “little kid hair” ultra fine, looks limp) along with the previous layer of henna finally allowed it to stick for the most part. I think I might have to do another gloss in a few weeks with a much smaller amount of henna because I am still getting run off in the shower (yes, I am using henna from a reputable seller).
Anyway, when it comes time to do my roots I think I will do a mixture of 40 percent henna to 60 percent cassia. My hair is incredibly ashy (natural light brown/ dark blonde but looks grey to charcoal depending on the light) so I think I may need to go a little heavier on the henna than most would to get the shade and warmth I want.

[Leneveu]

Lenevu, that turned out gorgeous! Love the subtle tint, it really adds dimension.

Thanks, wispe!

Ironmoon, I've also had a bit of fading, though mostly on my silvers!

It's time to do my roots, and I'm thinking of doing dye release at room temperature this time, instead of in the sun (since there's not much sun around at the moment).

Does henna/cassia need to be on the hair for longer when it's been dye released at room temperature instead of in the sun? :hmm:

[Nightshade]

Thanks, wispe!

Ironmoon, I've also had a bit of fading, though mostly on my silvers!

It's time to do my roots, and I'm thinking of doing dye release at room temperature this time, instead of in the sun (since there's not much sun around at the moment).

Does henna/cassia need to be on the hair for longer when it's been dye released at room temperature instead of in the sun? :hmm:

Yep! Generally you want your mud to be at or over 85F/30C for dye release. It will release at lower temperatures, but also takes longer. I tend to mix up my mud with steaming water (which jump starts release) and then keep it at ~100F / 38C for 4 hours of dye release.

[Leneveu]

Yep! Generally you want your mud to be at or over 85F/30C for dye release. It will release at lower temperatures, but also takes longer. I tend to mix up my mud with steaming water (which jump starts release) and then keep it at ~100F / 38C for 4 hours of dye release.

Thanks for your answer, Nightshade.

I once tried doing dye release on the stove warmer burner, and I got dye release after one hour! My concern is that this ultra-fast dye release might lessen the sticking power of the henna to my grey hairs. Or is this unfounded?!

[Nightshade]

Thanks for your answer, Nightshade.

I once tried doing dye release on the stove warmer burner, and I got dye release after one hour! My concern is that this ultra-fast dye release might lessen the sticking power of the henna to my grey hairs. Or is this unfounded?!

Totally unfounded. I use Fire Genasi, which is pretty diluted henna and it stains my whites just fine :)

[Leneveu]

Totally unfounded. I use Fire Genasi, which is pretty diluted henna and it stains my whites just fine :)

Great! That makes things much more convenient! Thanks for your reply :)

[wispe]

I never posted an update so here’s my belated thoughts, whoops.

September 23 I redid my roots, used the 2:3 Saerenrae/Rusalki mix, had a lovely time, yayyy. Fresh roots are nice. My pink underlayer looks really good layered over the warmer roots (my underneath is less strawberry naturally, so my pink overlay was a cooler/more purple tone over the roots compared to the warmer reddish color of the ends. I prefer it warm). Redid my roots again Mid December with just Rusalki because I like that it’s simple (no measuring/mixing powders) and it’s still perfect.

Did my roots on a Friday and my brows the next morning with straight henna. Turns out if I mix the henna, immediately load up my brows, let it dry, and then wipe the henna off (the whole process is like, 10-15 minutes), it’s a perfect match to my roots. At least, after 3-5 days of shocking, neon orange. Everyone at work on Monday noticed and asked if I’d dyed them, though they were unsure if my hair color itself had changed. (I don’t usually wear makeup or fill in my brows at work, so it was super noticeable. I could have filled them in and it would have looked good even on the neon days, I just hadn’t bothered) The brows lasted about 3-4 weeks, I’d say. It was nice having visible brows even on the days I didn’t bother to wear makeup/fill them in. If I continue dying my hair every 3-4 months, I could probably do my brows the first two months and it would match, but after that I think my roots would be long enough that the henna brows would probably be too jarring a difference. Though I’m considering doing a cassia treatment at the midway point between root touch ups, that might extend the warmth enough to allow for it. The baby hairs/hair at my temples is pretty white blonde otherwise.

I’m planning to redo my roots and brows tonight so I’ll probably take some pictures and over the weekend so I can have a good little comparison, since I think those are cool. Going to be using just Rusalki again, because I love how that turned out. Am also going to give that crockpot dye release trick (https://nightbloominggarden.com/2019/01/crock-pot-instant-pot-henna-for-perfect-dye-release/) a go this time, usually I sit my bowl in front of a space heater and am constantly checking to make sure it isn’t dried out/my cats haven’t stepped in it/it’s heated evenly. Using a crockpot sounds like a much less convoluted method.

[OracleLunaFaye]

I used Henna for the first time today. It was Rainbow Strawberry Blonde, so cassia + henna. My before, brown roots with some gray and bleached ends. Haven't dyed my hair for about a year. After. Golden ends and gray. I was hoping for a bit more copper, especially in my brown. I might repeat next weekend.

https://scontent.fcmh1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/54411815_10157419733644767_5593229501766041600_n.j pg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_ht=scontent.fcmh1-1.fna&oh=c7829f8dd4b491cf583fa1887023448b&oe=5D1567B8

https://scontent.fcmh1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/54522401_10157419733829767_3415111209253339136_n.j pg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_ht=scontent.fcmh1-1.fna&oh=cd0a47f57cb7a87a3ac54e0220c8a253&oe=5D22E696

https://scontent.fcmh1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/54435691_10157419733929767_7115612777598681088_n.j pg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_ht=scontent.fcmh1-1.fna&oh=0700424f2a3b0c27fe39b4f471b1faf0&oe=5D194F80

[lapushka]

I used Henna for the first time today. It was Rainbow Strawberry Blonde, so cassia + henna. My before, brown roots with some gray and bleached ends. Haven't dyed my hair for about a year. After. Golden ends and gray. I was hoping for a bit more copper, especially in my brown. I might repeat next weekend.

https://scontent.fcmh1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/54411815_10157419733644767_5593229501766041600_n.j pg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_ht=scontent.fcmh1-1.fna&oh=c7829f8dd4b491cf583fa1887023448b&oe=5D1567B8

https://scontent.fcmh1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/54522401_10157419733829767_3415111209253339136_n.j pg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_ht=scontent.fcmh1-1.fna&oh=cd0a47f57cb7a87a3ac54e0220c8a253&oe=5D22E696

https://scontent.fcmh1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/54435691_10157419733929767_7115612777598681088_n.j pg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_ht=scontent.fcmh1-1.fna&oh=0700424f2a3b0c27fe39b4f471b1faf0&oe=5D194F80

Welcome to the forum, BTW.

I think BAQ henna would give you a more vibrant result, if that's what you're looking for. I'm a little unsure on that. :) :o

[OracleLunaFaye]

My goal is about this
http://celebsiren.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/nicole-kidman-9364474-1-402.jpg

(I use Nicole Kidman as a test if colors would look good on me because she has the same skin tone and eye color as I do.)

[OracleLunaFaye]

http://www.celebsiren.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/nicole-kidman-9364474-1-402-300x261.jpg

[OracleLunaFaye]

My goal is about this

https://celebsiren.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/nicole-kidman-9364474-1-402.jpg

(I use Nicole Kidman as a test if colors would look good on me because she has the same skin tone and eye color as I do.)

IDK Y my picture isn't showing up, and I don't see a way to edit the post. :(

[Nightshade]

IDK Y my picture isn't showing up, and I don't see a way to edit the post. :(

Posting pictures and editing posts are both things you'll be able to do once you have more posts in general :) I forget the exact number, but just keep posting! You can also link a picture without embedding it in the post, I think.

[Kaoria]

Nightshade, can I bother you for some advice on a cassia / henna blend? I'm trying to get a Titian red (not orange but not auburn either) so would I go with one full strength henna application or is it possible to get a red tint if I go with say 50/50 henna/cassia and go over it with another say 25/75 blend if the initial effect is too coppery? Basically I'm trying to understand if adding cassia to henna is likely to keep it in the orange part of the colour spectrum or can it still veer into red with progressive applications (which is more attractive to me, I'm trying to keep the colour from going dark so going with a gradual approach feels like I'm retaining some control over the depth of the resulting shade). I hope this makes some sense, I'm starting to confuse myself trying to articulate it. Thanks so much! ETA And oh god ignore my profile pic, my hair has long since moved on from that red.

[Nightshade]

Nightshade, can I bother you for some advice on a cassia / henna blend? I'm trying to get a Titian red (not orange but not auburn either) so would I go with one full strength henna application or is it possible to get a red tint if I go with say 50/50 henna/cassia and go over it with another say 25/75 blend if the initial effect is too coppery? Basically I'm trying to understand if adding cassia to henna is likely to keep it in the orange part of the colour spectrum or can it still veer into red with progressive applications (which is more attractive to me, I'm trying to keep the colour from going dark so going with a gradual approach feels like I'm retaining some control over the depth of the resulting shade). I hope this makes some sense, I'm starting to confuse myself trying to articulate it. Thanks so much! ETA And oh god ignore my profile pic, my hair has long since moved on from that red.

You're no bother at all :) And I'm glad you mentioned your profile pic! I was just going to ask about that.

So, yes to everything you said :) You can start off with 50/50 (I use 35% henna, 65% cassia and other herbs) and then layer it up as needed. I wouldn't worry too much about overlap and darkening because I only do my roots and I easily get mud on the first 1-3 inches every time I do them. That means I'm overlapping for 3-6 months of growth at a go, but as you can see in my pics the color is uniform all the way down the length :)

My suggestion would be to start with something around my ratio, and then if that's too light, either do it again, or do it again with a bump up to 50/50. Once you hit your preferred shade, do roots only from there on out!

[Kaoria]

Thanks so much Nightshade, really appreciate it! So full steam ahead with a 35/65 ratio and then let’s see where that gets me! Now if only my cassia shows up, I’ve got my henna released, frozen and ready to go but the cassia is taking its own sweet time in the postal system ��

[Faraniel]

Hi, I hope I am not too pedantic but I would like to ask about a few things about henna/cassia mix. Nightshade kindly gave me her advice to try 35/65 (henna/cassia). I was just wondering about a few things. My hair reaches the middle of my back and is on the thicker side, how much of the powder do I need? The second question is that if I have a few white hair, is this ratio enough to cover them? What I mean is I presume henna covers the white hair but if it is too dilluted it might do nothing to my white hair? The last question is about the whole process of preparation. Is it the same as with henna meaning that I mix both powders, add hot water (does the temperature differ?), whatever (like lemon etc) and let it sit? How long is the optimal time? How long should I let it sit on my hair? This is all basic stuff but I am new to the cassia mix so I am not sure if I can do the same as with henna only. Normally, I would let is sit overnight and then on my hair like 4-6 hours if I remember correctly. I know it's stupid but I want to be sure I am doing it correctly. Thank you!

[Nightshade]

Hi, I hope I am not too pedantic but I would like to ask about a few things about henna/cassia mix. Nightshade kindly gave me her advice to try 35/65 (henna/cassia). I was just wondering about a few things. My hair reaches the middle of my back and is on the thicker side, how much of the powder do I need?

That depends on the thickness of your hair, but I'd think 200g with some leftovers to freeze to touch up your roots.



The second question is that if I have a few white hair, is this ratio enough to cover them? What I mean is I presume henna covers the white hair but if it is too dilluted it might do nothing to my white hair?
I have white hair and it does cover them :) They are very light and bright compared to my brown hair, a new-penny copper compared to the darker copper of the rest of my hair. Because herbal colors only add pigment, the base color matters a lot. This means that your whites are always going to take an herbal color as a brighter, more vibrant, and lighter version of the same color applied to darker hair. The comparison I give a lot is like drawing a line with an orange marker across a white piece of paper onto a light brown one. It's the same color being applied, but it's going to show up differently based on what it's applied to.




The last question is about the whole process of preparation. Is it the same as with henna meaning that I mix both powders, add hot water (does the temperature differ?), whatever (like lemon etc) and let it sit? How long is the optimal time? How long should I let it sit on my hair? This is all basic stuff but I am new to the cassia mix so I am not sure if I can do the same as with henna only. Normally, I would let is sit overnight and then on my hair like 4-6 hours if I remember correctly. I know it's stupid but I want to be sure I am doing it correctly. Thank you!

It's not stupid at all :) I treat all my hair color mixes the same, from straight henna to the cassia blends, and dye releasing with a hot liquid (no lemon needed), letting it dye release for 4 hours, then applying it for 3-4 hours works well for all of them, including the ones with cassia.

[Kaoria]

So Nightshade what I was planning on doing when my cassia gets here today was to mix the cassia with warm water and then mix it straightaway with my already dye released henna (currently in the freezer). Since I’m not after any colour from the cassia but more of a diluting effect on the henna would you say that could still work? I would allow it to sit for 4 hours but I won’t have 4 hours (I will be already tight on time and today is the only day I can spare the hours needed for henna application).

[captainjanuary]

So, I've been trying to lighten my henna for a while this year in an effort to spend less time on it and make it look more natural/one color.

Before:

https://imgur.com/a/JVDAkQ3

After:

https://imgur.com/a/aQcZfEa

It is lighter but I'm feeling pretty uninspired with my hair these days and I think it is worse than before in terms of being a bunch of colors. You can see my light blonde roots growing out--they always make me look like I'm graying or going bald. To counter the demarcation line, and to have lighter red hair, I started leaving my henna on for only ~3 hours strictly on the roots (I make a bunch of tiny buns, cover them in plastic/rubber bands and then apply a more watery henna mixture with a squeeze tip bottle). I don't feel like the color sticks very well this way. But I'm using just henna and room temp chamomile tea and water, like I always have--left to dye release at room temp for at least 12 hours then put in the freezer, then unfrozen and applied. I previously was mixing my henna pretty thick, developing it the same, and doing all-over applications that I left on for 7 hours.

Besides the grow out being such a different color, I just got tired of having henna in my hair that long (the weight of it with saran wrap always gave me a terrible migraine). The repeated applications of henna over a three year period made it burgundy. It was starting to look *very* unnatural in photos with my skin color, to the point where I felt like I was veering into the "will my employer mind" category. The ends were burgundy with so many applications and the hair about five inches to the roots was an orange/red color, the roots that only had one layer of henna were pretty orange.

I've lightened the ends with sun-in, which works well but is so gradual that it requires too much hair drying that causes me to lose hair (my pony tail size is already so thin).

I miss the hair conditioning properties of all over henna--it made my hair thicker and shiny and strong. Just doing the roots for the past eight months has left my hair looking so limp. I have very fine, thin hair that I try so hard to curl and make look like it has body. The henna really helped, as you can see from the first photo (also had just brushed out).

I guess I don't have a specific question. Just sharing my progress. My goal is to have hair that is a consistent color overall, but it is tough with such fine and colorless hair to begin with.

Any thoughts about sedr vs cassia for hair thickening? Is sedr worth the expense over cassia?

[captainjanuary]

Sorry--I realized I might be in the wrong thread because I don't mix my henna with cassia anymore, but I am trying to lighten up my hair and would be interested in thoughts from women with light blonde hair trying to get a red/coppery tone that isn't overly yellow, who find that cassia works for them. I'm having a hard time getting the color to stick when not keeping it on my head very long.

[Nightshade]

So Nightshade what I was planning on doing when my cassia gets here today was to mix the cassia with warm water and then mix it straightaway with my already dye released henna (currently in the freezer). Since I’m not after any colour from the cassia but more of a diluting effect on the henna would you say that could still work? I would allow it to sit for 4 hours but I won’t have 4 hours (I will be already tight on time and today is the only day I can spare the hours needed for henna application).

Sounds like a good plan to me! Since the henna is already dye released, just mix up the cassia with steaming water, blend the muds together, and apply :)




Any thoughts about sedr vs cassia for hair thickening? Is sedr worth the expense over cassia?

The two have totally different conditioning properties. You can read the long version here, (https://nightblooming.com/2018/02/06/sedr-senna-henna-herbal-conditioning-properties/) but the short version is:

Sedr- The leaves of this plant have a permeable waxy coating to help retain moisture. It is the fatty acids and secondary alcohols of this epicuticular wax that gives Sedr its conditioning and cleansing benefits. As such, it will wear off over time and needs to be refreshed every 4-8 weeks.

Senna– The conditioning properties and golden color come from Chrysophanic acid. The tannins and chrysophanic acid in senna also have anti-fungal and anti-bacterial properties. Needs to be refreshed every 4-8 weeks.

Henna– There are two steps in the conditioning properties of henna. The first is the lawsone molecule, which binds to the keratin in hair and permanently makes makes hair red-orange, stronger and thicker. Also a desert plant, henna leaves a permeable coating on hair similar to that of Sedr’s. This coating fills in rough spots on the cuticle and helps reduce damage from outside sources such as combing and styling. This permeable coating, however, fades after 4-8 weeks.

So the Chrysophanic acid of cassia/senna has no thickening properties to speak of. Most of henna's thickening properties are from the plant wax-coating, which fades in time. Sedr also produces a similar desert plant-wax, and I would say it's most similar to henna in regards to thickening.

[Faraniel]

Thank you! Would it be a problem if I leave it sit to release over night? The thing is, I prefer to apply it early because my hair takes time to dry.

[Nightshade]

Thank you! Would it be a problem if I leave it sit to release over night? The thing is, I prefer to apply it early because my hair takes time to dry.

I don't think so, but if you do, mix it up with room temperature water so it releases more slowly :) You can just warm it up a bit before you put the mud on your head so it isn't cold.

[Kaoria]

Done it Nightshade, I have to say henna is certainly potent! This is what I ended up with but it’s getting darker now that it’s starting to oxidise. I’ll wait for a few more days before deciding if I need another application of henna but perhaps a Arctic Fox gloss might serve just as well to take it closer to red without darkening it. Thanks for all the help!
https://imgur.com/a/vfaV9E0] ( https://imgur.com/a/vfaV9E0[/IMG]

[captainjanuary]

You can read the long version here, (https://nightblooming.com/2018/02/06/sedr-senna-henna-herbal-conditioning-properties/) but the short version is:

Sedr- The leaves of this plant have a permeable waxy coating to help retain moisture. It is the fatty acids and secondary alcohols of this epicuticular wax that gives Sedr its conditioning and cleansing benefits. As such, it will wear off over time and needs to be refreshed every 4-8 weeks.

Senna– The conditioning properties and golden color come from Chrysophanic acid. The tannins and chrysophanic acid in senna also have anti-fungal and anti-bacterial properties. Needs to be refreshed every 4-8 weeks.

Henna– There are two steps in the conditioning properties of henna. The first is the lawsone molecule, which binds to the keratin in hair and permanently makes makes hair red-orange, stronger and thicker. Also a desert plant, henna leaves a permeable coating on hair similar to that of Sedr’s. This coating fills in rough spots on the cuticle and helps reduce damage from outside sources such as combing and styling. This permeable coating, however, fades after 4-8 weeks.

So the Chrysophanic acid of cassia/senna has no thickening properties to speak of. Most of henna's thickening properties are from the plant wax-coating, which fades in time. Sedr also produces a similar desert plant-wax, and I would say it's most similar to henna in regards to thickening.

It seems like sedr may be my best option. This is very helpful. Thank you!

[Nightshade]

Done it Nightshade, I have to say henna is certainly potent! This is what I ended up with but it’s getting darker now that it’s starting to oxidise. I’ll wait for a few more days before deciding if I need another application of henna but perhaps a Arctic Fox gloss might serve just as well to take it closer to red without darkening it. Thanks for all the help!
https://imgur.com/a/vfaV9E0] ( https://imgur.com/a/vfaV9E0[/IMG]

Your picture doesn't work for me, but I hope the color ends up where you want it :)


It seems like sedr may be my best option. This is very helpful. Thank you!

You're so welcome!

[Faraniel]

Has anyone tried 1/2 cassia and 1/2 henna? The thing is I could only find 100g cassia package in the shop I prefer, the rest I found were internet shops with a rather expensive shipping. I CAN buy another package but this one would be easier. Any pictures maybe how the shade turned out for you?

Edit: I was thinking about a color like this? Or would it be more red?
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/5b/21/5f/5b215f6f8156dc43c85587b269ace2f2.jpg

[katr]

Has anyone tried 1/2 cassia and 1/2 henna? The thing is I could only find 100g cassia package in the shop I prefer, the rest I found were internet shops with a rather expensive shipping. I CAN buy another package but this one would be easier. Any pictures maybe how the shade turned out for you?

Edit: I was thinking about a color like this? Or would it be more red?
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/5b/21/5f/5b215f6f8156dc43c85587b269ace2f2.jpg

Faraniel, did you end up trying the 50/50 henna cassia? I want a color like in that image too. I have bought 100g of each and am trying to decide between 50/50 or 2 parts cassia to 1 part henna. I will be doing some testing this week but it's interesting to see others results

[Faraniel]

Faraniel, did you end up trying the 50/50 henna cassia? I want a color like in that image too. I have bought 100g of each and am trying to decide between 50/50 or 2 parts cassia to 1 part henna. I will be doing some testing this week but it's interesting to see others results

Sorry for the late reply. In the end I tried 1/3 henna and 2/3 cassia. It was the first application and I washed my hair after three days just to be sure and most of it seems to be gone. I don't know what I did wrong...

[florenonite]

Sorry for the late reply. In the end I tried 1/3 henna and 2/3 cassia. It was the first application and I washed my hair after three days just to be sure and most of it seems to be gone. I don't know what I did wrong...

How long did you leave it on for? Did you make sure you had good dye release before applying? What's your starting hair colour?

Henna takes a few days to oxidise after application, and the colour calms down a bit (my avatar picture is unoxidized henna/senna mix on dark blonde/light brown hair). If your natural colour is darker, then after it's oxidised the colour won't show up as brightly.

Henna also varies a lot with the light; I can have anything from a bright copper to a rich wine red to a russet brown depending on lighting.

[Faraniel]

How long did you leave it on for? Did you make sure you had good dye release before applying? What's your starting hair colour?

Henna takes a few days to oxidise after application, and the colour calms down a bit (my avatar picture is unoxidized henna/senna mix on dark blonde/light brown hair). If your natural colour is darker, then after it's oxidised the colour won't show up as brightly.

Henna also varies a lot with the light; I can have anything from a bright copper to a rich wine red to a russet brown depending on lighting.

My natural hair is really light brown (not dark blond). I used hot water, added lemon juice (from half a lemon), had it released for 4 hours, then applied it on my damp hair for another four hours. Since I have washed it, it is still reddish but very mildly and I can see the roots a bit more (growing out semipermanent golden copper colour), but they are still okay and not too obvious. I wonder maybe I should add more henna and less cassia since my hair isn't blond.

[florenonite]

My natural hair is really light brown (not dark blond). I used hot water, added lemon juice (from half a lemon), had it released for 4 hours, then applied it on my damp hair for another four hours. Since I have washed it, it is still reddish but very mildly and I can see the roots a bit more (growing out semipermanent golden copper colour), but they are still okay and not too obvious. I wonder maybe I should add more henna and less cassia since my hair isn't blond.

Hmm, did you check that it stained your skin orange before applying? The length of time needed for dye release depends on how warm it is, so it's good to check against the inside of your wrist or similar first.

Perhaps you could post pictures of your starting colour, your freshly hennaed colour, and your colour now? That might help to see what you're dealing with here :)

[Faraniel]

Hmm, did you check that it stained your skin orange before applying? The length of time needed for dye release depends on how warm it is, so it's good to check against the inside of your wrist or similar first.

Perhaps you could post pictures of your starting colour, your freshly hennaed colour, and your colour now? That might help to see what you're dealing with here :)

Sorry, I don't have any pictures. And all my camera are cheap so they don't really give a good idea of reality lol ...anyway, so I should put some on my wrist to see if it dyes anything? How does that work?

[florenonite]

Sorry, I don't have any pictures. And all my camera are cheap so they don't really give a good idea of reality lol ...anyway, so I should put some on my wrist to see if it dyes anything? How does that work?

Yeah, that's all you need to do. Take a dollop of mud and stick it on your palm (apparently the palm works better than the inner wrist; I just googled and came up with this (https://hennablogspot.com/the-deal-on-dye-release-testing-your-henna-paste-for-a-more-effective-stain/)), leave it for a minute, then wash it off. If you have a bright orange stain on your hand, your henna is ready.

ETA: I know you said you have cheap cameras, but if you could get a picture in good lighting (either outside or next to a south-facing window) that would help a lot. I find that when I take pictures with my phone (which doesn't have a great camera) the colour isn't very accurate if it's indoors, especially in lamplight, but if I take pictures outside they give a good indication of the colour of my hair.

[Faraniel]

Yeah, that's all you need to do. Take a dollop of mud and stick it on your palm (apparently the palm works better than the inner wrist; I just googled and came up with this (https://hennablogspot.com/the-deal-on-dye-release-testing-your-henna-paste-for-a-more-effective-stain/)), leave it for a minute, then wash it off. If you have a bright orange stain on your hand, your henna is ready.

ETA: I know you said you have cheap cameras, but if you could get a picture in good lighting (either outside or next to a south-facing window) that would help a lot. I find that when I take pictures with my phone (which doesn't have a great camera) the colour isn't very accurate if it's indoors, especially in lamplight, but if I take pictures outside they give a good indication of the colour of my hair.

Okay, I took the photo with my phone and it's nto the best but at least it gives the idea I hope...
https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=40574&d=1583767467

[florenonite]

Hmm, yeah, that doesn't look like you got much dye uptake (I'm assuming everything beyond the roots is from the old semi-permanent copper?). My best guess is that you didn't have adequate dye release; a 1:2 ratio of henna:senna should produce a bright, fiery copper on a colour like yours.

[Faraniel]

Hmm, yeah, that doesn't look like you got much dye uptake (I'm assuming everything beyond the roots is from the old semi-permanent copper?). My best guess is that you didn't have adequate dye release; a 1:2 ratio of henna:senna should produce a bright, fiery copper on a colour like yours.

Yes, the copper semi is everything beyond the roots. I'll be honest this photo looks a bit too harsh, it's not that ashy I think. There is some copper but minimal and the roots show a bit more. I will look up experiences with specific brand of henna I used to see if it needs more time to release. Also, I heard that sometimes the first application doesn't stick properly so maybe I can do it again in a week or so?

Edit: I forgot to mention I added tap water a few times when I was applying it on my hair because it got a bit too dry and it was hard to work with it.

Edit 2: I have just realised, the henna definitely dyed my gloves bright orange so I think the release was fine?

[shelomit]

Another way to check that the dye is releasing is to watch the color on the surface of the henna. Usually I mix it up in a bowl, put plastic wrap up against the surface, and leave it overnight. Take note of the color when you first mix it. If the dye has released, the surface of the mixture (though not the "inside") will change color--a sort of dark brownish-blackish-green. I do notice that the amount of time it takes to release varies a whole lot based on weather/season.

I often add some more water on the day of if I find out the mixture has dried out too much overnight to be a nice, spreadable texture.

[florenonite]

Yes, the copper semi is everything beyond the roots. I'll be honest this photo looks a bit too harsh, it's not that ashy I think. There is some copper but minimal and the roots show a bit more. I will look up experiences with specific brand of henna I used to see if it needs more time to release. Also, I heard that sometimes the first application doesn't stick properly so maybe I can do it again in a week or so?

Edit: I forgot to mention I added tap water a few times when I was applying it on my hair because it got a bit too dry and it was hard to work with it.

Edit 2: I have just realised, the henna definitely dyed my gloves bright orange so I think the release was fine?

Hmm, I know on some people (myself included) there's a degree of fading over time with a single application of a lower-dilution mix, but nothing like what you're experiencing here. My avatar pic is after my first ever application of henna; parts of that faded to a coppery/strawberry blonde in a couple of months, but I've never heard of it being the case where the first application just doesn't stick.

A little bit of tap water shouldn't affect it, and if your gloves were bright orange you probably did have good dye release. I really would recommend Nightshade's book (https://www.etsy.com/ca/listing/468060348/ebook-coloring-hair-naturally-with-henna?ref=shop_home_active_1&crt=1); there's an entire chapter on troubleshooting that might be henna.

One more thing that occurred to me: did you strand test before applying? If you got good colour with the strand test, but not the whole head application, that would suggest there's a difference between the conditions of your strand test and your whole head application that might help pinpoint the issue.

[flickm]

Hi All, I'm doing a 50/50 mix of Jamila henna and cassia obovata. I have a packet of cassia ready to open that I've had some time. I've just realised it's cassia auriculata NOT obovata. Will it give the same results? - given that it's only there to dilute the henna, and the cassia stain fades anyway. Thanks :)

[Nightshade]

Hi All, I'm doing a 50/50 mix of Jamila henna and cassia obovata. I have a packet of cassia ready to open that I've had some time. I've just realised it's cassia auriculata NOT obovata. Will it give the same results? - given that it's only there to dilute the henna, and the cassia stain fades anyway. Thanks :)

Since most of what it's doing is diluting the henna, you're fine :)

[Faraniel]

So I used 50/50 this time and washed it after four days. It took more colour so I am satisfied with it. Some parts look a bit dark so in future I might try some Sun In but since it's at the roots I don't think it matters.

[flickm]

Thank you! Stay well x

[curly girl fla]

Last time I did a 60/40 mix, but on my head now I have a 50/50 with raj this time. My goal is to have my grays (not a lot, but not just a few) take the color as a lighter copper or stawberry and my darker length just keep picking up a more strawberry hugh. I never just do roots. Even with henna, my hair does lighten a little in the sun so as long as I spend time outdoors, this mix will hopefully just maintain the color it is.

[selkieQc]

I'm planing to buy some cassia obovata ! But every shop I find in canada sell it by 100g and with my hair lenght I would need 400g or 500g .-. It's soo expensive for one batch if I need to do it every months....

[Bellalla]

I'm planing to buy some cassia obovata ! But every shop I find in canada sell it by 100g and with my hair lenght I would need 400g or 500g .-. It's soo expensive for one batch if I need to do it every months....

Henna Sooq has a location in Toronto, but I believe they're closed during the pandemic. It could be a good source moving forward though.

However, would you be colouring your entire length every month, or just the roots?

[selkieQc]

Henna Sooq has a location in Toronto, but I believe they're closed during the pandemic. It could be a good source moving forward though.

However, would you be colouring your entire length every month, or just the roots?

I will check for this store :o maybe online ?
Oh the cassia obovata is a neutral henna! So technically it dont dye hair. It just have the same property than henna but dont last forever :)

[Bellalla]

I will check for this store :o maybe online ?
Oh the cassia obovata is a neutral henna! So technically it dont dye hair. It just have the same property than henna but dont last forever :)

Sorry, I assumed you were doing henna and cassia together. I seem to recall you having red hair, so I just assumed.

[selkieQc]

Sorry, I assumed you were doing henna and cassia together. I seem to recall you having red hair, so I just assumed.

Ahah yeah I do dye my hair ! But not with henna I use a vegan semi permanent dye :)

[Jane99]

I just did a roots application for the first time and it was pretty easy to do! I used the “smoosh into a loose braid” method and did a mostly cassia application for my length. It was pretty easy and actually the first time I’ve applied to my own hair (hubby has done all my full head applications for me! But he wasn’t willing to do roots only) It feels and looks good while wet but once my hair dries I’ll have better gauge of how the color looks.

[Jane99]

So, my hubs and I used to have this Hereford pig. Hereford pigs are reddish/orange, and she had the most beautiful hair, it was almost iridescent when you looked at it up close, just glimmering away in the sun. Anyways, we are putting up a greenhouse and it’s by the road in a sunny spot. I was out there waiting for him and he came driving up, and he said my hair was just glowing in the sun and he could see if from way down the road, and told me it was iridescent. Anyways, it made me think of our old pig we used to have, and decided to share.

[Veganmayhem]

For a strawberry blonde coloring , and I see people say 40% henna, 60% cassia.... what does that mean in terms of table spoons? Or how can I measure this out correctly to get those percentages?

[Nightshade]

For a strawberry blonde coloring , and I see people say 40% henna, 60% cassia.... what does that mean in terms of table spoons? Or how can I measure this out correctly to get those percentages?

You can still use percentages by volume. For example 4 teaspoons henna and 6 teaspoons cassia :)

That said, you probably want to scale your henna down even more. My hair (below) is 35% henna and it's flame on orange. I'd say start with 20% henna, tops, and see where that gets you and then increase the % if you need to.

[Veganmayhem]

This is what I’m working with here...more strawberry blonde at the roots and orange/red henna on the bottom. Please let me know your suggestions to make this mix. I have henna and cassia from Henna Sooq. I have a turmeric tea I was thinking of steeping that for the water and maybe orange juice? https://i.imgur.com/3bVk3pE.jpg

[Nightshade]

I'd cut the tumeric, it washes out quickly and stains you and your tub more than the hair. The acid also isn't necessary--the only time I recommend that is if you're getting a lot of fading. The lighting is really good in the picture and henna varies a lot in the light, but I'd stand by my earlier assessment of starting at about 20% henna and increasing from there.

[Veganmayhem]

I'd cut the tumeric, it washes out quickly and stains you and your tub more than the hair. The acid also isn't necessary--the only time I recommend that is if you're getting a lot of fading. The lighting is really good in the picture and henna varies a lot in the light, but I'd stand by my earlier assessment of starting at about 20% henna and increasing from there.
Thank you. So you are suggesting water mixed with what, and no acid? Very interesting, I always heard acid needed. So this would be like 2 tbs of henna with 8 tbs cassia? Thank you so much for any more info you can give

[Nightshade]

Thank you. So you are suggesting water mixed with what, and no acid? Very interesting, I always heard acid needed. So this would be like 2 tbs of henna with 8 tbs cassia? Thank you so much for any more info you can give

Aye a lot of people think henna is drying and then they're dumping loads of acid in it and wondering why XD I do think acids have its place, especially if your color is fading, but for the most part it's one of those things were a lot of the rules for henna in skin art got carried over for hair... and they weren't really tested and really don't apply.

Yes, I think a 1 part henna to 4 parts cassia ratio is a good place to start :)

[stardust lady]

So I'm using the Fire Genasi. I had a couple layers on it already at 1 hour, then some light henna glosses, then a full app of fire genasi at 2 hours, then another full app two weeks ago at closer to 3 hours.

I'm puzzled. My light auburn brown hair (tbh it's closer to dark ashy dirty blond these days) looks like medium brown with a little bit of red/orange? Not sure why it keeps fading and darkening/dulling. It's like it's not actually getting redder. I might start mixing some pure henna in to make it redder next time, but I don't want to go darker. Just redder. My base color should be light enough for what I'm trying to achieve, so idk what is going wrong.

Could it be the extremely hard water where I live? (Thankfully we are moving soon to a city with soft water, I'm so tired of feeling like a raisin). Or maybe because I was using sulfate shampoo? I was clarifying and it didn't seem to help much. Should I be honey lightening?

I'm stumped.

[Dixie Derelict]

I bet Ms. Nightshade will soon give you a more complete answer- but I know from experience that the hard water could definitely be causing some weirdness... Simple fix? Use distilled water from a bottle. ESPECIALLY for the actual mix that will be on your head. Also, if you can at all manage it, you should leave it on overnight, and maybe use a Hot Head(flaxseed stuffed terrycloth cap) or similar, to apply a bit of heat.

[Jane99]

I started noticing more of a red stain after I started freezing the dye released henna and then thawing. At that same time I also started adding hibiscus powder. I’m guessing the stronger dye came more from the freezing/thawing than the hibiscus. It also took me quite a few applications of biweekly strong henna/cassia glosses to get to the shade that I was happy with. I hope you can find a way to get redder!

[Nightshade]

So I'm using the Fire Genasi. I had a couple layers on it already at 1 hour, then some light henna glosses, then a full app of fire genasi at 2 hours, then another full app two weeks ago at closer to 3 hours.

I'm puzzled. My light auburn brown hair (tbh it's closer to dark ashy dirty blond these days) looks like medium brown with a little bit of red/orange? Not sure why it keeps fading and darkening/dulling. It's like it's not actually getting redder. I might start mixing some pure henna in to make it redder next time, but I don't want to go darker. Just redder. My base color should be light enough for what I'm trying to achieve, so idk what is going wrong.

Could it be the extremely hard water where I live? (Thankfully we are moving soon to a city with soft water, I'm so tired of feeling like a raisin). Or maybe because I was using sulfate shampoo? I was clarifying and it didn't seem to help much. Should I be honey lightening?

I'm stumped.


I started noticing more of a red stain after I started freezing the dye released henna and then thawing. At that same time I also started adding hibiscus powder. I’m guessing the stronger dye came more from the freezing/thawing than the hibiscus. It also took me quite a few applications of biweekly strong henna/cassia glosses to get to the shade that I was happy with. I hope you can find a way to get redder!

I do think that minerals in your water could be worth checking out. I use a blend of Vit C and Citric Acid (Alluvial) to get the minerals off my hair. They can turn the Chrysophanic acid in senna (https://nightblooming.com/2018/02/06/sedr-senna-henna-herbal-conditioning-properties/) greenish, which can really mute the orange-red of henna (because they're opposites on the color wheel).

So I think that's worth a try.

Another thing to consider is that it's hard to 'get redder' with a blend like Fire Genasi where the henna in it is already so dilute--it's a blend that was meant to stay orange/copper so more layers tend to just make it a darker version of the same. You're also using veeeeeeeeeeeery little henna between Genasi and your glosses--I understand that your goal is not to get too dark, but henna is like a bit of coffee in the bottom of a white cup--it's pale yellow-brown until you have enough depth of it to get to brown and then black. There is some level of dye saturation that you need to start trending red, and sadly in most cases that also means accepting that you have to go a little darker.

Getting a true red with herbal colors is hard because henna itself is an orange-red. I have seen people with luck layering on hibiscus treatments to increase the red without going darker, but it's for sure a process.

tl-dr, I'd try, in order:
- A treatment like Miracle Water (there's a thread around here about it somewhere) or Alluvial to see what that does to your current color. The great news with this is that it acts retroactively, if this was part of your problem, you'll see quite a bit of brightening without doing anything else.

- Consider increasing the amount of henna you're using. I know of at least one person who has fading with 51% henna in her blend, but not at 56% Everyone's hair has a different tipping point, so you don't even have to increase the amount of henna a lot, just a smidge more might put you over your hair's threshold for holding onto the color longer.

- Try doing hibiscus treatments as their own step on top of your henna treatments. If I recall from the cherry cola thread, people were doing a two-step treatment with a bit of henna and then a hibiscus mud treatment because, like a lot of herbal colors, the hibiscus doesn't stay well on its own and likes unoxidized henna to grab onto. In any event, the cherry cola thread might be worth a read to see how people refined using hibiscus to get more red :)

I hope that helps!

[stardust lady]

Wow Jane, your new color is incredible. Last time I was on here, it was a more muted color than that. What is your henna/cassia ratio?

Thanks for all the help, Nightshade! I will definitely pick up the Alluvial from your shop. Everything else I've gotten has been a knockout so I don't think I'll be disappointed. For some reason I thought my clarifying shampoo had citric acid (it says it removes chlorine), but I just checked the ingredients a few minutes ago and it just looks like normal sulfate shampoo. That explains it. The water where I live is about as hard as water gets, so I'm 99.9% sure this is the issue.

Could the super hard water by chance be related to the scalp and textural problems I'm having?

[florenonite]

- Consider increasing the amount of henna you're using. I know of at least one person who has fading with 51% henna in her blend, but not at 56% Everyone's hair has a different tipping point, so you don't even have to increase the amount of henna a lot, just a smidge more might put you over your hair's threshold for holding onto the color longer.

<snipped for space>



It me!

Upping the blend a bit gives my hair a more reddish rather than brownish-copper tinge in indirect light, but it retains the fiery ginger in sunlight:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3eHFdqKE4IjeooD3clVMfD856woQ8vRc6gQ9bxeyrLcStyvVli fFzBfvKDQzpbzD9QDJPVPnpReWDFIah30pFFr277ZCewwDkKIs 2vheChcVErYmBSkWLiOCeC4oE-081aSMcF2gNNV9OuJs90c9njCww=w739-h1052-no?authuser=0

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3foUvsFToBQdz_Huhc3VxbCVcGtZa79EdomvntdVpOSjkYb1vK 2TZgbTidxJV4_0P0CJ4UX_-hO5hn0zvoaFsKdpCwzVpxrCRngEW09dTWCDl36fiTvUAv2_lio Yo_mWBYXZ37DK_SL9kHVdFFsqt0keQ=w1160-h2084-no?authuser=0


Wow Jane, your new color is incredible. Last time I was on here, it was a more muted color than that. What is your henna/cassia ratio?

Thanks for all the help, Nightshade! I will definitely pick up the Alluvial from your shop. Everything else I've gotten has been a knockout so I don't think I'll be disappointed. For some reason I thought my clarifying shampoo had citric acid (it says it removes chlorine), but I just checked the ingredients a few minutes ago and it just looks like normal sulfate shampoo. That explains it. The water where I live is about as hard as water gets, so I'm 99.9% sure this is the issue.

Could the super hard water by chance be related to the scalp and textural problems I'm having?

Do you happen to know your water hardness in ppm or gpg? It certainly could be affecting your scalp and likely your texture; our water is about 400-500 ppm and when the softener needs refilled my skin feels like it's shrunk in the shower and is stretched over my bones.

[Jane99]

Wow Jane, your new color is incredible. Last time I was on here, it was a more muted color than that. What is your henna/cassia ratio?

Thanks for all the help, Nightshade! I will definitely pick up the Alluvial from your shop. Everything else I've gotten has been a knockout so I don't think I'll be disappointed. For some reason I thought my clarifying shampoo had citric acid (it says it removes chlorine), but I just checked the ingredients a few minutes ago and it just looks like normal sulfate shampoo. That explains it. The water where I live is about as hard as water gets, so I'm 99.9% sure this is the issue.

Could the super hard water by chance be related to the scalp and textural problems I'm having?

Thank you! The avatar picture is in direct sun, so much brighter than in other lights. It’s a lot more muted in indoor lighting but I can still see red *most* of the time, or at least a tinge of copper or orange. I’ve been using 1:3 henna:senna and I’ll add the same amount of hibiscus powder as henna. Plus usually aloe powder and clove for the smell!
I have just been doing the roots with this strength and then I’ll do the lengths with a senna gloss that I add a couple gloops of the henna mix into so it brightens it up but very minimally. Probably like a 1:10 ratio in gloss form.
I also have hard water... not as bad as 400ppm but 190ppm anyways. I want to try Alluvial. I’ve only ever used vinegar rinses. Everyone on here is a wealth of knowledge!

[Jane99]

Florenite, your hair is so beautiful! I love the waves, color, shine...

[florenonite]

Florenite, your hair is so beautiful! I love the waves, color, shine...

Thank you! :) I think the waves are braid waves; my natural waves are a bit more chaotic :p

[stardust lady]

Wow florenonite, your hair is gorgeous. What's your natural color? Your hair texture/thickness looks a lot like mine, wouldn't be surprised if the base color was the same too. What ratio of henna to cassia did you end up going with?

I might eventually increase the henna in my mix. I do so love the fire genasi, so maybe I'll wait till my hair gets longer to see how it looks. I'm still growing out my undercut, which was shaved all around to the top ridge of my skull, and I'm almost at a bob. Can almost throw everything in a ponytail. After a year of terrible hair (I feel like I've been dealing with this look for a while: https://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/media/video/img/upload/2012/07/screen-shot-2012-07-16-at-122121-pm/original.png) I'm kinda getting the itch to shave the sides off again. Maybe I need someone to talk some sense into me...

[stardust lady]

Forgot to mention, our water hardness is around 300ppm. I guess that's not bad compared to 400, but hard is hard. The levels where we're moving is closer to 100 ppm.

[Nightshade]

Wow florenonite, your hair is gorgeous. What's your natural color? Your hair texture/thickness looks a lot like mine, wouldn't be surprised if the base color was the same too. What ratio of henna to cassia did you end up going with?

I might eventually increase the henna in my mix. I do so love the fire genasi, so maybe I'll wait till my hair gets longer to see how it looks. I'm still growing out my undercut, which was shaved all around to the top ridge of my skull, and I'm almost at a bob. Can almost throw everything in a ponytail. After a year of terrible hair (I feel like I've been dealing with this look for a while: https://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/media/video/img/upload/2012/07/screen-shot-2012-07-16-at-122121-pm/original.png) I'm kinda getting the itch to shave the sides off again. Maybe I need someone to talk some sense into me...

hahahahaa I actually use Flor's natural hair in my experiments. She gave me her braid when she cut her hair many years ago, so you can see her natural color and all my colors on these swatches:
https://nightblooming.com/2017/12/05/nightblooming-herbal-hair-color-strand-tests/

[stardust lady]

Haha, what are the odds. Yeah it's a little lighter than mine for sure, so if hers needed extra henna then mine probably will too. Nightshade, does your hair look brown indoors? I still need to order that chelating rinse, so maybe I should try that before I start making adjustments...

[Nightshade]

Haha, what are the odds. Yeah it's a little lighter than mine for sure, so if hers needed extra henna then mine probably will too. Nightshade, does your hair look brown indoors? I still need to order that chelating rinse, so maybe I should try that before I start making adjustments...

It can indeed!

Here's my hair, photographed all on the same day, in different types of light:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/GFwPZam-RoAbSIWYvIgXTBIA9edrIsSMdwU1Gt_Ne4URnXvAc3e9X-duiyb3nRtpjVn8eyjy-5TBdrpzTgi42CnXal0HG6P0HCWtwmuq_PnxKuksyjqA29Bjo_k WnYcVNKEIEVZwxgcQOievJIYW3Bs2qc2li-VOlseVzRIylLvedYx16kENFdoRDuNCa8BWzsL7ntSaNhb-0-obbfOSGMmGEphjLfO3aRcTzaw7-RzJyt7R47qYMAsU9E5aG9Aiv1SIKjQd9WLgYI0HtlLmGt5P7TL OpssAZF6KLj4w0mhstE2KOHnqm4y1orBtTN58MdlPD9PazSCSQ l0H7WHyOZyDhAhrtYLJXbRss3T-yGL8hFLBVthj-xtGANGHDjY_jflmHz99-0selcFh7JSuUe0TJc9fcMKkshH9hB14e7_x4xB5vWAETFKRXoA cjaGYIuE_iwxWGr-RLNBCLcCEnAVCz2LHk39Vsr84dNxxDf_WoF18u5G0Cs4435may MwmszeaR2tptPV75BBP5fu4Kp4QImqrcGG6MWzK7ONcrpVhe3O oBrNZo3wONb3tY3t-GD4SPENw9ROmCLCVfvCL8kdjwWZu2_eQC_m6JDic93Wburv2A8 Y66UABf2mUkMJZgTdclrcnVkW-YCC-yg1T3SF4j43yWPwiJ8AYsp61HTxHKQE7R7MTPXFtpjGjEg=w19 56-h1168-no?authuser=0

Which is why the "I want THIS color, what blend do I need?" is such a thorny question. Henna shifts a LOT depending on the light it's in, and that's just one of those inescapable nature-of-the-beast things.

Flor and I talked about this at one point, where there are some things that are why chemical dyes were invented. Because people want to go from black hair to blonde, or they want to get the color on the box no matter what their starting color, or they want that color pretty consistently no matter if they're indoors or out. These are just things that chemical dyes do better (or at least more consistently) that herbal dyes, so when people opt for the herbal route some of that fickle, less-predictable nature is kind of baked in.

(I'm not saying you were grousing about that in particular, it' s just been on my mind for awhile.)

[stardust lady]

It can indeed!

Here's my hair, photographed all on the same day, in different types of light:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/GFwPZam-RoAbSIWYvIgXTBIA9edrIsSMdwU1Gt_Ne4URnXvAc3e9X-duiyb3nRtpjVn8eyjy-5TBdrpzTgi42CnXal0HG6P0HCWtwmuq_PnxKuksyjqA29Bjo_k WnYcVNKEIEVZwxgcQOievJIYW3Bs2qc2li-VOlseVzRIylLvedYx16kENFdoRDuNCa8BWzsL7ntSaNhb-0-obbfOSGMmGEphjLfO3aRcTzaw7-RzJyt7R47qYMAsU9E5aG9Aiv1SIKjQd9WLgYI0HtlLmGt5P7TL OpssAZF6KLj4w0mhstE2KOHnqm4y1orBtTN58MdlPD9PazSCSQ l0H7WHyOZyDhAhrtYLJXbRss3T-yGL8hFLBVthj-xtGANGHDjY_jflmHz99-0selcFh7JSuUe0TJc9fcMKkshH9hB14e7_x4xB5vWAETFKRXoA cjaGYIuE_iwxWGr-RLNBCLcCEnAVCz2LHk39Vsr84dNxxDf_WoF18u5G0Cs4435may MwmszeaR2tptPV75BBP5fu4Kp4QImqrcGG6MWzK7ONcrpVhe3O oBrNZo3wONb3tY3t-GD4SPENw9ROmCLCVfvCL8kdjwWZu2_eQC_m6JDic93Wburv2A8 Y66UABf2mUkMJZgTdclrcnVkW-YCC-yg1T3SF4j43yWPwiJ8AYsp61HTxHKQE7R7MTPXFtpjGjEg=w19 56-h1168-no?authuser=0

Which is why the "I want THIS color, what blend do I need?" is such a thorny question. Henna shifts a LOT depending on the light it's in, and that's just one of those inescapable nature-of-the-beast things.

Flor and I talked about this at one point, where there are some things that are why chemical dyes were invented. Because people want to go from black hair to blonde, or they want to get the color on the box no matter what their starting color, or they want that color pretty consistently no matter if they're indoors or out. These are just things that chemical dyes do better (or at least more consistently) that herbal dyes, so when people opt for the herbal route some of that fickle, less-predictable nature is kind of baked in.

(I'm not saying you were grousing about that in particular, it' s just been on my mind for awhile.)

Yeah, there are definitely times where I wish I could just use chemical dye, but it doesn't even feel like an option anymore. And, I don't know, I think it's actually kinda cool that henna changes so much. It makes the color feel so real, because in a way it is.

It's interesting that your hair seems to hold onto the henna, even though you described your base color as being a tad darker than mine. And Flor's hair is lighter than mine, and she needed extra henna too. I wonder if it's a porosity thing? I did a full 3 hour henna like 2 weeks ago, and it's starting to look sandy in indirect light. I think you mentioned that some people add 10g of kitsune to the fire genasi. Not sure if I did the math right, but wouldn't that bring it up to around 40% henna? I might have to try that next time.

[florenonite]

Yeah, there are definitely times where I wish I could just use chemical dye, but it doesn't even feel like an option anymore. And, I don't know, I think it's actually kinda cool that henna changes so much. It makes the color feel so real, because in a way it is.

It's interesting that your hair seems to hold onto the henna, even though you described your base color as being a tad darker than mine. And Flor's hair is lighter than mine, and she needed extra henna too. I wonder if it's a porosity thing? I did a full 3 hour henna like 2 weeks ago, and it's starting to look sandy in indirect light. I think you mentioned that some people add 10g of kitsune to the fire genasi. Not sure if I did the math right, but wouldn't that bring it up to around 40% henna? I might have to try that next time.

I think it might be a porosity thing; Nightshade's natural colour is darker than mine, but hers doesn't fade as much. My hair is pretty low porosity and it's fine-textured (meaning that it doesn't necessarily have all three layers of cortex, cuticle and medulla), so I think the henna just doesn't "stick" as much. I think adding 10g kitsune to the Genasi is a good place to start, as that's a small enough change you're not likely to get a sharp demarcation line, but you should be able to see if it's still fading.

[stardust lady]

I think it might be a porosity thing; Nightshade's natural colour is darker than mine, but hers doesn't fade as much. My hair is pretty low porosity and it's fine-textured (meaning that it doesn't necessarily have all three layers of cortex, cuticle and medulla), so I think the henna just doesn't "stick" as much. I think adding 10g kitsune to the Genasi is a good place to start, as that's a small enough change you're not likely to get a sharp demarcation line, but you should be able to see if it's still fading.

That's exactly what I suspected - fine textured hair doesn't have as much of a cortex for henna to bind to. My colors natural level is around dirty blond, and it's fairly fine I think, because I will lose a single strand of hair if it is stuck somewhere to my skin because it's too thin. Always thought it was thick because it's high density... Took me a while to realize those two things were not related. Excited to try a stronger blend! I would LOVE for my hair color to look like yours. Thanks for all the help guys!

[Jane99]

I’m looking forward to hearing how it turns out for you!!

[Nightshade]

Yeah, there are definitely times where I wish I could just use chemical dye, but it doesn't even feel like an option anymore. And, I don't know, I think it's actually kinda cool that henna changes so much. It makes the color feel so real, because in a way it is.

It's interesting that your hair seems to hold onto the henna, even though you described your base color as being a tad darker than mine. And Flor's hair is lighter than mine, and she needed extra henna too. I wonder if it's a porosity thing? I did a full 3 hour henna like 2 weeks ago, and it's starting to look sandy in indirect light. I think you mentioned that some people add 10g of kitsune to the fire genasi. Not sure if I did the math right, but wouldn't that bring it up to around 40% henna? I might have to try that next time.


I think it might be a porosity thing; Nightshade's natural colour is darker than mine, but hers doesn't fade as much. My hair is pretty low porosity and it's fine-textured (meaning that it doesn't necessarily have all three layers of cortex, cuticle and medulla), so I think the henna just doesn't "stick" as much. I think adding 10g kitsune to the Genasi is a good place to start, as that's a small enough change you're not likely to get a sharp demarcation line, but you should be able to see if it's still fading.

I agree that porosity is likely part of it--I do get some fading at my roots, but the second application makes it colorfast :)

I'll be curious how adding a smidge of extra henna works out for you! And I'm the worst person to check your math, but yes, I think that'd bring your total henna up to 40%

[stardust lady]

Okay, so I used the Alluvial yesterday on my henna/cassia hair and did a before and after shot, one yesterday and one today, both at 1pm in the same room, same lighting, from about the same angle: http://imgur.com/a/KJXek47

Pretty big difference. The color was extremely dull before, and while it's still not quite as red as I'd like, it looks way better. Also so much softer and bouncier. I'll probably have to use this as a final rinse from now on.

[Carrie's hair]

I decided to publish my mixture preparation method here. Maybe it will be useful to someone.
I always use demineralized water. When I have more time, I cook flaxseed on it. When I have a lot of time, first I make a decoction or infusion of herbs, and then I cook the flaxseeds on it. When I don't have time, I make the infusion / decoction only. Of which? Most often, what has moisturizing properties: hops, fucus, plantain, fenugreek, marshmallow. I also use chamomile. I strain and cool it. I pour the liquid over cassia with a little citric acid. I pour it a little so that it does not come out too rare. I wrap the container with a plastic bag, a towel and put it aside for 24 hours in a warm place. Cassia takes time to release the dye. About 20 hours. I prepare the henna later because it needs less time. Depends on the species. 2 to 8 hours.
I cleanse my hair with a strong shampoo without silicones and polyquaternium. Then I put on and hold max. 5 hours. I can't last longer.

After rinsing, I do not use any cosmetics on my hair for min. 48 hours. I'm just waiting for the next wash. All I can do is a linseed rinse. It does not affect color and oxidation.

Hope everything is understandable. I used the translator because my English is not very good.

[stardust lady]

Has anyone ever compared the difference between layers of henna/cassia vs a single application of henna? Would the result be pretty much the same? I was about to do a 40/60 henna/cassia, because my 35/65 is too yellow for my tastes, but I'm wondering if I should just go full henna instead.

[stardust lady]

Just editing this post to say that I realized that in order for henna diluted with cassia to build up to a different color, it would have to change the molecule. And since it just dilutes it, then I suppose layering diluted henna would eventually look exactly the same as pure henna, at least after the cassia color fades. Well, hopefully that's correct at least. So I'm marching on with my stronger mix! Got a batch of 40/60 dye releasing as we speak.

I've also realized, embarrassingly, after going through past threads, that I've asked this question multiple times. My memory is so non-existent sometimes...

[Liz_H]

I want to add sugar to my next batch. Do I need to wait for dye release to add it, or can I mix from the beginning? I'm going to mix up 150 gr of powder. About how much sugar should I use to get a nice smooth paste? I'm also going to use the mixer this time.

[Jane99]

I don’t measure the sugar... I probably put in about a tablespoon of powdered sugar for about 50g of powder at the beginning and let it all dye release together. Maybe a little more. I can not believe how much it helps with drips!! And as a bonus, the powdered sugar I bought for christmas cookies 4 years ago is finally getting used up!

[Liz_H]

I never thought of powdered sugar! Mine gets used once a year for a birthday cake. I think powdered sugar also contains cornstarch. I've read of people using thickened cornstarch, but I guess the tiny bit in the sugar wouldn't make any difference. Pardon my meandering thoughts. It's time to mix my henna! :)

I don’t measure the sugar... I probably put in about a tablespoon of powdered sugar for about 50g of powder at the beginning and let it all dye release together. Maybe a little more. I can not believe how much it helps with drips!! And as a bonus, the powdered sugar I bought for christmas cookies 4 years ago is finally getting used up!

[Liz_H]

How long can henna/cassia sit in the fridge before the dye degrades? I don't think I can freeze it with the added conditioner. It's been mixed maybe 30 minutes, but I can't do it right now.

[stardust lady]

How long can henna/cassia sit in the fridge before the dye degrades? I don't think I can freeze it with the added conditioner. It's been mixed maybe 30 minutes, but I can't do it right now.

Henna can be stored in the fridge for a few days. I don't think cassia's storage properties matters much in this case, since it's just diluting the henna. But I'm no expert by any means.

[Liz_H]

Thanks. I won't worry about it then. I'm hoping to get some blond from the cassia. Even at 10% , the henna will still put some color down.

[stardust lady]

Thanks. I won't worry about it then. I'm hoping to get some blond from the cassia. Even at 10% , the henna will still put some color down.

Yeah the cassia will be okay for a day or two also, if your looking for yellow tones. Even at 40 percent, I still get decent amount of yellow tones in my auburn, so you should be golden (literally and figuratively) at 10%.

[Liz_H]

How do you like the results?


... So I'm marching on with my stronger mix! Got a batch of 40/60 dye releasing as we speak.
...

[stardust lady]

How do you like the results?

Thanks for asking! I'm a fan - it's definitely an improvement. The initial color was brassy and weird and took a full week to oxidize, but now it looks super pretty and natural, a medium auburn. It's the same color as my freckles, which is a nice touch.

I'm beginning to see a tiny bit of fade, two weeks later. That may be a result of having fine-ish strands, but I'm also still working on perfecting dye release, so can't really make conclusions on that right now.

Overall, I'm pretty happy with the color. Before it oxidized I did buy some hibiscus, so I may add some to my next henna. If I do, I'll probably start with 35% henna and 3TBSP hibiscus, and see what kind of effects it has. If that doesn't work out, I'll probably move up to a 50/50 mix. The current color still has a decent amount of yellow in it (but so does my natural color, so I guess that's to be expected), and I'm still planning on deepening more. So far so good!

[Liz_H]

Thanks for asking! I'm a fan - it's definitely an improvement.
Glad to hear it! Does the hibiscus make for cooler shades?

[Liz_H]

How many times can I freeze and thaw my mix without losing much color? I have quite a bit in the freezer, but I need to up the henna percentage.

Also, I froze some with conditioner in the mix. Will the conditioner survive the freezer?

[Jane99]

I will freeze, thaw, refreeze and it works fine after the second thaw. I would think you could refreeze multiple times just fine but I don’t know. That’s a good question.
Also, I’ve frozen the conditioner and thawed it out and it was also fine. Same with yogurt and coconut milk.

[Nightshade]

How many times can I freeze and thaw my mix without losing much color? I have quite a bit in the freezer, but I need to up the henna percentage.

Also, I froze some with conditioner in the mix. Will the conditioner survive the freezer?


I will freeze, thaw, refreeze and it works fine after the second thaw. I would think you could refreeze multiple times just fine but I don’t know. That’s a good question.
Also, I’ve frozen the conditioner and thawed it out and it was also fine. Same with yogurt and coconut milk.

It's less how many times you freeze and thaw it and more how long it's left out to decay each time you do.

I have a little 1 ounce bottle that I use for my eyebrows and I can easily thaw and re-freeze it 7-10 times (I've never kept track, but it's a lot) before it noticeably starts getting less potent. That's straight henna, though, I've not tested it to that extent with something like Fire Genasi. My max there is 3-4 times with no noticeable decline in dye.

[stardust lady]

Glad to hear it! Does the hibiscus make for cooler shades?

Yeah, it seems that way. I've never ended up trying it, but the cherry cola/burgandy thread reported eggplant colors using 50/50 henna/hibiscus. The henna seems to bring hibiscus into the hair with it, and people were saying it stayed permanently, which is super cool! (I guess literally, ha)

I ended up going with Kitsune, since I wanted to try a more traditional henna blend and it seemed like the next logical step. I actually did it earlier today and I love it! Looking forward to seeing how it develops as it oxidizes. I think I'll be pretty happy with it. Took a couple years of baby steps to get to this Irish setter look, and I'm glad I took it slow, because it's definitely a commitment, but one that I now know I'm totally game for.

[Inazina]

My hair is now at chin length: two inches of pure henna on natural medium brown hair, 2-3 inches of dark brown hendigo, and the last inch at the ends is light brown (hendigo on bleached hair). My goal is to get rid of all the hendigo (I will try this weekend with CB4, but I don't have much hope) and to start using only henna+cassia for a natural coppery red. I think I will have to keep it at chin length until I manage to trim all of the dark parts and then let it grow. I really like to do all over applications and I was wondering if the henna builds up and darkens the same in time if I use a 30/70 cassia+henna? I don't want burgundy hair and I would happily use Sun-in on my lengths once a year if necessary. Should I start doing roots only or I can do all over applications if I use 70% cassia?

[stardust lady]

My hair is now at chin length: two inches of pure henna on natural medium brown hair, 2-3 inches of dark brown hendigo, and the last inch at the ends is light brown (hendigo on bleached hair). My goal is to get rid of all the hendigo (I will try this weekend with CB4, but I don't have much hope) and to start using only henna+cassia for a natural coppery red. I think I will have to keep it at chin length until I manage to trim all of the dark parts and then let it grow. I really like to do all over applications and I was wondering if the henna builds up and darkens the same in time if I use a 30/70 cassia+henna? I don't want burgundy hair and I would happily use Sun-in on my lengths once a year if necessary. Should I start doing roots only or I can do all over applications if I use 70% cassia?

It depends. You may have hair that a 30% henna mix fades on very quickly. Or it may never fade. If it fades, you might be able to get away with doing your whole head every time without too much buildup. If it doesn't, you will notice darkening faster. It will probably darken either way, just a matter of how fast. Based on my own experience, and at least one other person, finer hair may fade faster at lower percentages. I got lots of fading every time I did a 30-40% mix. I've just stepped up to 75%ish for that reason.

Best way to find out is to test on shed hair. Or if you're more daring (or impatient) you can do a 30% henna application one month, take some good pictures with consistent lighting, do another full head the next month, more pictures, and repeat maybe one more time and compare the color in the photos. If it's not noticably getting much darker, you might be able to keep applying it for a while. I think you'll still end up with an ombre effect this way, though.

[shelomit]

Thank you! Would it be a problem if I leave it sit to release over night? The thing is, I prefer to apply it early because my hair takes time to dry.

This is how we traditionally do henna in my family. A cup of lukewarm tea + lukewarm water, mix it up, cover with plastic wrap up against the surface of the mud, and put it on first thing the next morning. Ready to rinse out around noon or in the early afternoon, depending on your definition of "first thing" ( ;

[shelomit]

I want to add sugar to my next batch. Do I need to wait for dye release to add it, or can I mix from the beginning? I'm going to mix up 150 gr of powder. About how much sugar should I use to get a nice smooth paste? I'm also going to use the mixer this time.


I don’t measure the sugar... I probably put in about a tablespoon of powdered sugar for about 50g of powder at the beginning and let it all dye release together. Maybe a little more. I can not believe how much it helps with drips!! And as a bonus, the powdered sugar I bought for christmas cookies 4 years ago is finally getting used up!

I'm curious because of the mention of "drips." Is the intention of the sugar to make the mixture stickier? I have done this for "kofer" (henna on skin), but have not heard of using it in henna for hair.

As to the cornstarch contents in powdered sugar, it depends since it the same mixtures are marketed differently in different places. You just need to check the ingredients to see if it is pure sugar or not. Here, "powdered sugar" typically contains cornstarch, while "superfine sugar" or "confectioner's sugar" does not--though they still may have anticaking agents.

[Inazina]

Thank you very much @LadyStardust, I will try tomorrow with a cassia/henna mix. I have 1/2 pound cassia (227 grams) and 100 grams henna, I'm considering mixing them together with some chamomile tea and freeze what I'm not using tomorrow. The picture below is my hair right now, after vitamin C/citric acid for an hour and TT oil mixed in coconut oil for another hour, both done yesterday All my three colours are slightly lighter, which I feel makes the difference even more visible. Today I'm trying the ColorB4 and tomorrow I plan to do a cassia/henna all over, in an attempt to make them all a bit ginger-ish. I wonder if a protein treatment on my ends would help henna stick better as they didn't seem to take much from previous applications.

https://i.postimg.cc/3JGLVcMb/Threecolours.jpg

[stardust lady]

Thank you very much @LadyStardust, I will try tomorrow with a cassia/henna mix. I have 1/2 pound cassia (227 grams) and 100 grams henna, I'm considering mixing them together with some chamomile tea and freeze what I'm not using tomorrow. The picture below is my hair right now, after vitamin C/citric acid for an hour and TT oil mixed in coconut oil for another hour, both done yesterday All my three colours are slightly lighter, which I feel makes the difference even more visible. Today I'm trying the ColorB4 and tomorrow I plan to do a cassia/henna all over, in an attempt to make them all a bit ginger-ish. I wonder if a protein treatment on my ends would help henna stick better as they didn't seem to take much from previous applications.

https://i.postimg.cc/3JGLVcMb/Threecolours.jpg

Ooh, love your hair! The henna color near your roots looks great with your skin. Super jealous of your texture. Not sure about the henna not sticking...How long do you typically leave it on for? Could also be a matter of the dye not fully releasing. What kind of henna are you using and how are you dye releasing it?

[aralee]

Hi! I’m trying henna for the first time. Is 200g enough for my fine waist-length hair? Or should I add more?

[Jane99]

I would think 200g would be enough, but on the other hand you want to definitely have enough. I used a lot more the first time hennaing than any other time, more so because I wasn’t sure about consistency so I made it too thick, and I didn’t add conditioner to make a gloss like I usually do now. So theoretically 200g should be enough but in practice it might not be.

[stardust lady]

I would think 200g would be enough, but on the other hand you want to definitely have enough. I used a lot more the first time hennaing than any other time, more so because I wasn’t sure about consistency so I made it too thick, and I didn’t add conditioner to make a gloss like I usually do now. So theoretically 200g should be enough but in practice it might not be.

Ditto this. I've made the mistake of mixing too little henna and you just end up with a spotty dye job that you have to fix. 200g could be enough, but it depends on hair thickness, mix consistency, and just how generous with each spot you are. Better safe than sorry, I say.

[Inazina]

Ooh, love your hair! The henna color near your roots looks great with your skin. Super jealous of your texture. Not sure about the henna not sticking...How long do you typically leave it on for? Could also be a matter of the dye not fully releasing. What kind of henna are you using and how are you dye releasing it?

Thank you! :) I'm using BAQ Rajasthani henna in my mix with cassia. Before that, I've used the Nupur henna mix (henna with 9 other herbs) but I found it was making my colour too cool, most probably because of the amla in it. I usually leave it for 3+ hours. I know it's not the henna quality, I've used it several times with good results and it stains my healthy hair just right. I think my ends are just too damaged and that's why they don't stain properly. They were bleached, then dyed, then hennaed, then hendigoed, then bleached again, and now henna again... honestly, they will just need to be trimmed.

The Colour B4 didn't do anything on my hair (apart from making it smell horrendous), I think the vitamin C lightened the indigo band a bit. Today I plan to do another Vitamin C mask and another henna-cassia on my lengths. Anyway, I'm extremely happy with the henna-cassia on my natural hair, I feel that after so many years of torturing my hair I finally found my true colour and I will be able to grow it in peace.
I really want to try Fire Genasi, but with the shipping to the UK it's quite expensive, I will wait until I only need to do my natural roots, it's not worth it on hair I'm going to cut anyway.

[aralee]

i would think 200g would be enough, but on the other hand you want to definitely have enough. I used a lot more the first time hennaing than any other time, more so because i wasn’t sure about consistency so i made it too thick, and i didn’t add conditioner to make a gloss like i usually do now. So theoretically 200g should be enough but in practice it might not be.

thank you very much! :d

[aralee]

ditto this. I've made the mistake of mixing too little henna and you just end up with a spotty dye job that you have to fix. 200g could be enough, but it depends on hair thickness, mix consistency, and just how generous with each spot you are. Better safe than sorry, i say.

thank you!!

[queenbee1]

Ladies and gents do you reckon I could henna over my oiled and unwashed hair? Will it stick to the hair if its oily?

[shelomit]

Ladies and gents do you reckon I could henna over my oiled and unwashed hair? Will it stick to the hair if its oily?

I have applied henna to unwashed hair many times without any trouble. The ~traditional~ way in my family is to put it on dry, unwashed hair, though I have also put it on damp unwashed hair without any issue (and, at least with my texture, it's easier to section the damp hair).

Conversely, North Africans tend to oil their hair after hennaing and not before--at least in my experience. My gut says that if you have an ordinary level of oil in your hair, it probably wouldn't be a problem--? Henna is very difficult to discourage, lol. If you have just put on a super heavy pre-wash oil treatment or something, I might give it a rinse-off with water if you don't wish to wash your hair.

[stardust lady]

Ladies and gents do you reckon I could henna over my oiled and unwashed hair? Will it stick to the hair if its oily?

While many people say it dyes just fine over unwashed, oily hair, I like to shampoo and chelate before hennaing. My worry would be that it doesn't take as strongly on the roots, and I don't think it's too big of a deal to shower twice on my henna day.

[stardust lady]

I already posted about this in another thread, but I'm in the process of lightening back to copper after using Red Raj. The darkness didn't suit me, and I've got another level or two to go until I reach my desired lightness.

I have about 3 more bags of Red Raj and I just bought a bunch of cassia to mix in. I'm not sure if I should do 1:1, 1:2, or 1:3 henna/cassia ratio. I'm going to lighten to a level 7 or 8 and I want a bright, vivid copper color. Any suggestions for ratios?

[Jane99]

Hi Stardust— I do not have a ratio suggestion for you but a different input to add- the Senna Alexandria is a different type of Senna used as an herbal laxative and it gives a much stronger yellow color than the Senna/Cassia Obovata (sp?) marketed for hair. I did a comparison between the two last year and it was strikingly different and I think Nightshade has some published strand tests on the web somewhere. Maybe a brighter yellow to cut the red raj may help you with the bright copper you’re looking for? Just an idea.

[Nightshade]

I already posted about this in another thread, but I'm in the process of lightening back to copper after using Red Raj. The darkness didn't suit me, and I've got another level or two to go until I reach my desired lightness.

I have about 3 more bags of Red Raj and I just bought a bunch of cassia to mix in. I'm not sure if I should do 1:1, 1:2, or 1:3 henna/cassia ratio. I'm going to lighten to a level 7 or 8 and I want a bright, vivid copper color. Any suggestions for ratios?

Start with 1/3 henna and 2/3 senna/cassia :)

[stardust lady]

Hi Stardust— I do not have a ratio suggestion for you but a different input to add- the Senna Alexandria is a different type of Senna used as an herbal laxative and it gives a much stronger yellow color than the Senna/Cassia Obovata (sp?) marketed for hair. I did a comparison between the two last year and it was strikingly different and I think Nightshade has some published strand tests on the web somewhere. Maybe a brighter yellow to cut the red raj may help you with the bright copper you’re looking for? Just an idea.

Yeah, I've come to really miss the yellow and orange tones I used to get from the henna/senna mix. I'm probably going back to the Fire Genasi after I get through all these bags. I sort of had to try a bunch of different things before I realized that it's basically the perfect blend for me. No regrets - if I don't try something, I spend all my time wondering how different things might look. The only concern I ever had about it was possible browning due to the higher levels of Chrysophanic acid reacting with hard water, but I'm now seeing that the "browning" I've been experience is really just darkening from repeat applications. What I really needed to do all along was just gently lighten my hair up every now and then.


Start with 1/3 henna and 2/3 senna/cassia :)

Thanks Nightshade, I will certainly start there. :)

[AmberJewel]

Well I did my first-ever henna treatment and loved it! The color is nice, but I especially liked the way my hair felt for the first week after use: smooth, silky, and conditioned in a way I can't remember ever experiencing before. I imagine it had something to do with the coating/conditioning qualities of the henna? And I'm wondering if this means I should deep-condition, or if that would cause the henna color to fade... Any advice?

[Shorty89]

Well I did my first-ever henna treatment and loved it! The color is nice, but I especially liked the way my hair felt for the first week after use: smooth, silky, and conditioned in a way I can't remember ever experiencing before. I imagine it had something to do with the coating/conditioning qualities of the henna? And I'm wondering if this means I should deep-condition, or if that would cause the henna color to fade... Any advice?

Henna generally doesn't fade. A few people have hair that henna doesn't seem to stick to but most people have no issues. If you feel like your hair needs more deep conditioning, go for it. As for how henna makes your hair feel, I don't have the same effect so I'm not sure what might mimic it. Maybe a mixed protein/moisture treatment since henna sort of acts similar to a protein?

[AmberJewel]

Thanks for the tips, Shorty89!

[Shorty89]

Thanks for the tips, Shorty89!

No problem/ :)

[tangocurl]

Hi everyone,

It has been a long time since I've been here, and a long time since I have done henna/cassia or a gloss. I now have enough white hairs, and they're loooong and you can see them that I think it is time I go back to henna gloss/henna-cassia.

I have a dumb question I should know the answer to and haven't been able to find...how do you get henna/cassia to stick better, not just to white hairs but all hairs? Like, literally the mixture beads up and rolls off of my hair and does not cling. That's part of why I got tired of putting herb muds in my hair and just got some conventional highlights for a while or did nothing.

Citric acid? Honey? Something else? I want to color my hair golden/strawberry blonde so the white hairs aren't white but have a gold or orange hue. The rest of my hair is already a light warm brown. I want to get the ratio right so I can leave it on long enough to tint the white hairs without getting into the "RED," as in really orange red zone.

And I need the mixture to physically adhere to the strands.

Advice? Thank you......

[Jane99]

Since you mentioned a gloss, maybe if you made a gloss out of conditioner or yogurt it would stick to your hair better, and it would dilute the mix to make it more of a tint.
I also wonder if the mud you’ve used in the past is too thick so it just falls off your hair? I make mine at about a pudding consistency. I have to sort of squish it in my hair at first and then it glops on top of my head when I’m done applying.

[captainjanuary]

Hi everyone,

It has been a long time since I've been here, and a long time since I have done henna/cassia or a gloss. I now have enough white hairs, and they're loooong and you can see them that I think it is time I go back to henna gloss/henna-cassia.

I have a dumb question I should know the answer to and haven't been able to find...how do you get henna/cassia to stick better, not just to white hairs but all hairs? Like, literally the mixture beads up and rolls off of my hair and does not cling. That's part of why I got tired of putting herb muds in my hair and just got some conventional highlights for a while or did nothing.

Citric acid? Honey? Something else? I want to color my hair golden/strawberry blonde so the white hairs aren't white but have a gold or orange hue. The rest of my hair is already a light warm brown. I want to get the ratio right so I can leave it on long enough to tint the white hairs without getting into the "RED," as in really orange red zone.

And I need the mixture to physically adhere to the strands.

Advice? Thank you......

Do you oil your hair? Is your hair clean? That might affect how the mixture sticks to your hair. But more likely, like Jane99 says, you might not be using enough water to mix it. Though you risk having drips with too much water/liquid, you get a better dye and easier application when you make your mixture almost a thin pancake batter.

Are you mixing your henna with anything else? I find henna itself is quite adhesive by itself (and with some fenugreek even) while the sedr/cassia mix I have in my hair right now was very cohesive and beaded like you mention. I have seen some people mix greek yogurt into their henna mixture and it seems to create a nice texture for application. Personally, I wouldn't want to leave that on my hair for hours but it works well for some.

[stardust lady]

Hi everyone,

It has been a long time since I've been here, and a long time since I have done henna/cassia or a gloss. I now have enough white hairs, and they're loooong and you can see them that I think it is time I go back to henna gloss/henna-cassia.

I have a dumb question I should know the answer to and haven't been able to find...how do you get henna/cassia to stick better, not just to white hairs but all hairs? Like, literally the mixture beads up and rolls off of my hair and does not cling. That's part of why I got tired of putting herb muds in my hair and just got some conventional highlights for a while or did nothing.

Citric acid? Honey? Something else? I want to color my hair golden/strawberry blonde so the white hairs aren't white but have a gold or orange hue. The rest of my hair is already a light warm brown. I want to get the ratio right so I can leave it on long enough to tint the white hairs without getting into the "RED," as in really orange red zone.

And I need the mixture to physically adhere to the strands.

Advice? Thank you......

If you are indeed mixing the mud correctly with the right ingredients, and it's still not adhering, you can always wash with a little Dawn dish soap to roughen up the strands. It's possible the cuticle is so closed that the mud is sliding off. Okay, I don't actually know if that's possible but just a guess...

[tangocurl]

If you are indeed mixing the mud correctly with the right ingredients, and it's still not adhering, you can always wash with a little Dawn dish soap to roughen up the strands. It's possible the cuticle is so closed that the mud is sliding off. Okay, I don't actually know if that's possible but just a guess...

I think I was making it too dry. Blame the weird times when the VO5 temporarily disappeared from the shelves.....

[Jane99]

I just did a mix of 1/3 jamila, 1/3 hibiscus, and 1/3 senna. Mixed with cold coconut milk and no dye release after nearly 24 hours (next time I will heat the coconut milk!) so I warmed the whole shebang over a double boiler and then froze it. It made a great stain! It’s still pretty yellow-ey orange but I think it will oxidize nicely. Last time I hennaed, it didn’t stick so well on my roots and I think it was because they were too greasy or because I diluted it too much with the senna. This time is much better.

[stardust lady]

Does it dye the same with coconut milk? I still haven't tried that. I also attempted to henna on greasy roots last time I did a touch-up, and I swear they barely stained. I was so disappointed after going through the whole laborious process, lol.

[Jane99]

Yeah, I was pretty disappointed last time too. My partner was pretty rough applying it for me too so it was all knots and a giant PITA to rinse out too. But yes this time the coconut milk henna stained great and it was pretty easy to rinse out (I applied it this time) my hair hasn’t had that post henna dryness to it, it was actually a bit too oily over the weekend and I was itching to wash it again. So thumbs up to the staining and conditioning power of coconut milk!

[stardust lady]

Nice. I'll have to try it. I absolutely love the feeling of coconut milk on my scalp - so cooling and calming. Makes me feel like I'm on a tropical vacation, lol.

[LemonadeCandy]

Hello everyone! First post here!
So I have a question. My natural hair is ash blonde, and it's surprisingly dark (level 8 or 9 I'd say); when I go out often the sun bleaches it to almost white!
Since I spent the last year or so in a lockdown, all new growth was way darker than I'm used to seeing it and I hated it.
Hence, about 4 days ago I did my first henna!
I used pure henna, with a dash of turmeric and cinnamon, with part chamomile tea and part unheated distilled water (I kind of added water until I got the consistency I wanted). I let the dye release for about 3 hours and left the henna on my head with a plastic bag and beanie on for 4 hours.
Now, after the oxidising, my ends (the sun-bleached part) is a nice Fire Genasi-like orange, while this past year's growth is going more towards Kitsune - about the same deepness I'd say, but not quite red.
My question is, when I do the root touch-up next time, would it make sense to try and gradually lighten it with cassia? I'd maybe do an 80:20 ratio of henna and cassia the first time, and a 70:30 (or 60:40) next time around. Is it possible to get a Fire Genasi orange on my natural roots colour? Or should I just embrace this, maybe a shade lighter than Kitsune? Or perhaps you have better ideas?
I'd really like this henna to look as if it were possibly my natural colour!
Thanks!

[Jane99]

Hi, welcome to the forum!
You may want to dilute your henna with cassia, like you’re suggesting. We might have a similar color natural hair. My ends also have some highlight and box dye damage and are a lot brighter than the roots but before I ever dyed them the lengths would brighten up quite a lot from the sun. Cassia will pull out some of your natural highlights in the darker areas of your hair and give that yellow tint to make more of a copper tint. So, on my roots, I see a lot of gold flecks in bright light whereas naturally my dark roots really lack much color at all. It won’t be the same as your tips in brightness, it won’t make your darker hair lighter, but it could change the way the light reflects off your hair and as it builds up on layers through multiple root applications it would take a lot longer to get darker than what you want.

On the other hand, I have never used a full strength henna treatment so I can’t compare with my experience.

Good luck and welcome to the forum! Also BTW I joined last year for the purpose of learning about henna, with no thought about length or anything, but now I want to grow really long hair :)

[LemonadeCandy]

Hey Jane99, thank you for the warm welcome! :o

Your colour looks stunning! I joined for the same purpose! I have to admit, I've been lurking around for quite some time - since I started considering henna a few months ago. If I stay happy with this colour, I might let my hair grow as well, I think reds look best when longer.
I shall try to use a mix, maybe 70% henna for a start so the colour shift isn't too sudden (talking about ratios, do you have a recommendation?), and then go lighter yet next time if I still find it too dark. I'll make a batch for full hair to even out the ends a bit wth a gloss, they're still too orange compared to the rest of my hair...

Thank you for sharing your experience!

P.S. Is that a snek around your bun? :D

[LemonadeCandy]

Just relised I might want to subscribe to this thread. :)

[poli]

I'm considering going back to henna. So while I think about it for two weeks, I have some questions:
1. Do you think mixing henna with sedr instead of cassia will dilute it well enough? I'm going for 50/50 mix.
2. I'm sure someone posted it before, but does henna pull out deposit dyes out of hair?

[shelomit]

poli, I can't tell you anything about sedr or cassia, but there should be no need to worry about henna "pulling out" a deposit-only dye. You may lose a little color just from the process of rinsing the henna out, but no more so than you would doing that thorough of a wash/soak ordinarily.

[poli]

poli, I can't tell you anything about sedr or cassia, but there should be no need to worry about henna "pulling out" a deposit-only dye. You may lose a little color just from the process of rinsing the henna out, but no more so than you would doing that thorough of a wash/soak ordinarily.

Thank you, so I think I will wait till rest of the deposit dyes fade a bit more, the "rose red" is still there making parts of the hair almost cherry color. Then I'll have better idea what I'm working with. From experience it shouldn't be too hard to blend new henna with older more saturated parts of hair.

[shelomit]

Thank you, so I think I will wait till rest of the deposit dyes fade a bit more, the "rose red" is still there making parts of the hair almost cherry color. Then I'll have better idea what I'm working with. From experience it shouldn't be too hard to blend new henna with older more saturated parts of hair.

Sounds good. Best of luck!

[stardust lady]

LemonadeCandy- just wanted to say I'm in the same boat as you and backing off 100% henna and down to 30-40%. I don't have ash blonde hair, but mine is like dark reddish blond, or maybe light reddish brown. So a little darker than yours. I have done mild henna glosses, a 35% henna/cassia mix, a 50/50, a 75%, and 100% henna, so I can tell you how they compare for me.

I shaved my head a year and a half ago and stopped going in the sun for the most part without a hat, so my hair is all at it's darkest level, which is maybe like a 7. The 35% mix didn't darken it much, but it made it golden and coppery, but not super obviously red. I had a hair dresser at the time say that she loved my copper hair but I should really "go red", so it's not remotely close to the actual color red. The 100% was very close to the color red, but very dark. The cassia did indeed act as like a reflective, brightening agent I think. My hair looks a bit duller and doesn't glow orange in the sun like it used to. It looks redder in artificial light, but it looks more fake and obviously dyed, whereas most people thought the 35% was natural.

So, to answer your question, diluting with cassia (preferably senna if you can get some) will definitely make the roots appear brighter than the 100% henna could make them appear. I'm backing my mix back down slowly, to avoid obvious transition lines, so that it's a more subtle ombre effect. Something good that you might experience is fading after your first application. Perhaps I read wrong, but you only applied henna the one time? Mine always faded a lot at first, and I had to do many full head applications. So if you only dye roots from now on with lighter mixes, the transition to the ends which were dyed with 100% henna may very well match soon enough. Not a guarantee but it happens to a lot of people.

[poli]

I love my 50% henna 50% sedr/other herbs hair after it oxidized :) Trying not to think about root application for now, it's going to be a pain not to overlap too much. I ordered cassia and for roots I'm thinking about 60%cassia 40% henna. We will see.

[Liz_H]

Will the mud dye release about the same time in a closed container? I'd like to mix it, then pour into applicator bottles. This will get the kitchen mess done all at once.

[Liz_H]

I'm debating adding some sedr to my henna/cassia blend. Perhaps this would condition more since my mix is only 9% henna. By the way, if I do a pure sedr application, how long should I leave it on my hair

[Liz_H]

Duplicate post

[shelomit]

Will the mud dye release about the same time in a closed container? I'd like to mix it, then pour into applicator bottles. This will get the kitchen mess done all at once.

I don't believe this would affect the amount of time it takes the dye to release--in my experience, that has pretty much exclusively to do with the individual batch of henna and introduction of acid. I would caution, though, that you will lose the use of some of the henna if there is a lot of open space at the tops of the bottles. It's always preferable to cover the surface of the henna after it's mixed with waxed paper, plastic wrap, etc. to keep the air off of it. The more surface area touching the air, the larger proportion of the mixture will have oxidized by the time of dye release, and the less potent the batch of mixed henna as a whole will be.

[Liz_H]

I've always mixed my mud fairly thick to avoid drips. Today's was much thinner, in order to use a squeeze bottle. The thinner mud was so much easier to apply, and rinsed out much easier. I did get drips after the first hour, but that's a worthwhile tradeoff. I'll stick to this pancake batter thickness in future.

I've always been so careful to avoid staining anything when I color my hair. Today it occurred to me that with only 10% henna, I really don't need to be quite so worried! I've never had a problem cleaning up a tiny spill in the past.


... It's always preferable to cover the surface of the henna after it's mixed with waxed paper, plastic wrap, etc. to keep the air off of it. The more surface area touching the air, the larger proportion of the mixture will have oxidized by the time of dye release, and the less potent the batch of mixed henna as a whole will be.

For some reason I never thought about this. I quess when I used freshly mixed henna right before bed it wasn't a concern.

[shelomit]

For some reason I never thought about this. I quess when I used freshly mixed henna right before bed it wasn't a concern.

I notice this most when using multiple containers to mix henna. When we spend holidays with my grandmother, usually all the aunties and cousins and everybody are applying henna at once. We have to mix up a whole lot, and the containers that aren't full up to the top/cannot be covered airtight at the surface of the mixture have a deeper layer of reddish, fully oxidized henna at the surface by the time it is ready to use. The same is also true of wider-mouthed containers versus smaller ones, FWIW.

[Liz_H]

This was the first time I applied to wet hair, which also made it easier to apply.


When we spend holidays with my grandmother, usually all the aunties and cousins and everybody are applying henna at once.

What a nice family time!

[shelomit]

What a nice family time!

It's a traditional holiday thing--we're North African. And for some holidays like Purim, it's typical to color your hands and feet as well, so that means mixing up even more henna paste!

[alewyn]

Hi henna/cassia users! My natural hair color is around a level 6, I think (honestly not sure) and I'm contemplating switching to a henna/cassia mix on my roots to get a lighter color near my face than the deep auburn full strength henna I'm working with now (which I love, but is a somewhat intense contrast with my skin tone). Below is a pic of my virgin hair in full sunlight. I'm curious if anyone has hair close to this color that they have henna/cassiaed and would care to share pics of.

https://i.pinimg.com/474x/f7/9d/46/f79d46c6cdf736ba479c1a8a40d2c279.jpg

Here's one in overcast lighting. (https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=46862&d=1647532865)

And for reference, this is what it looks like with henna (I've only done one full-head application, the rest has been roots-only):

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/44/ee/20/44ee2066b3a173c2007f88a97a7d39f6.jpg

Overcast lighting w/ henna pic here. (https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=46851&d=1647448912)

My ultimate goal is to kind of let my natural level 6 shine through a bit more. I'm keeping the auburn lengths for sure, though--if I do switch my mix up, I'll do a gradual transition. Any and all thoughts or pics welcome!

[Cyclamen]

Alewyn, I don't have pictures handy right now, but when I was using 50:50 mix it came out more coppery looking, less red

[Liz_H]

Silly question here. I just mixed up some cassia/henna. Once it was smooth, I mixed in a bit of sugar. This is the way I've always prepared it, but I don't remember why I added the sugar! Probably smoother mixing or easier application. Any sugar users here?

[Shorty89]

Silly question here. I just mixed up some cassia/henna. Once it was smooth, I mixed in a bit of sugar. This is the way I've always prepared it, but I don't remember why I added the sugar! Probably smoother mixing or easier application. Any sugar users here?

I've only ever heard of adding sugar for mehndi not for hair use. It might make the mixture smoother though.

[Nightshade]

Silly question here. I just mixed up some cassia/henna. Once it was smooth, I mixed in a bit of sugar. This is the way I've always prepared it, but I don't remember why I added the sugar! Probably smoother mixing or easier application. Any sugar users here?

This is a holdover from skin art :) It makes the paste smoother and stringier, enabling for finer designs. So it might make application an little easier and won't hurt anything so long as you're not using so much it affects dye uptake.

[shelomit]

Silly question here. I just mixed up some cassia/henna. Once it was smooth, I mixed in a bit of sugar. This is the way I've always prepared it, but I don't remember why I added the sugar! Probably smoother mixing or easier application. Any sugar users here?

We put sugar syrup or honey in when we're painting our hands/feet. It helps smooth the paste out so you get fewer chunky bits messing up the designs. For hair it shouldn't be necessary, but neither should it hurt anything.

[Liz_H]

Thanks! Since I use an electric mixer to blend it, I imagine I can skip the sugar in future.

[Liz_H]

My mix is mostly cassia. Does freezing the cassia hurt it at all? Will freezing it trigger immediate dye release like it does for henna?

When dealing with a huge hair mat, I bought a tube of pure silicone for hair. It worked wonders. It still took some time, but not the multiple hours required with oil or conditioner (even though the conditioner had cones) I wonder if I could add several drops of silicone to my henna/cassia mix? I've often broken some hair off when rinsing out the henna, especially when doing root touchups. I'm somewhat tempted to try it and see if it interferes with the color deposit. I assume it would make it much easier to rinse out the henna without any damage, much like the coconut milk, aloe, etc. I used in my very first application. Alternatively, I could add it to the conditioner I use to wash/rinse it out. Thoughts?

[Chasemi]

I'm thinking about putting henna on the sections of my hair that have been bleached. They haven't been bleached in 2 years, so I'm not worried about a chemical reaction. It's a grown out peekaboo hair colour, and it's so drastically different from my natural colour (which is around a level 5). The bleached parts are VERY bleached, and vary between a level 9 and level 10. I'd love a warm tone in my hair, but I'd really like it to look brown. Do you think that's possible with just henna? Or would I need to mix with some slight amounts of indigo to get it that dark without it being bright orange?

[Nightshade]

I'm thinking about putting henna on the sections of my hair that have been bleached. They haven't been bleached in 2 years, so I'm not worried about a chemical reaction. It's a grown out peekaboo hair colour, and it's so drastically different from my natural colour (which is around a level 5). The bleached parts are VERY bleached, and vary between a level 9 and level 10. I'd love a warm tone in my hair, but I'd really like it to look brown. Do you think that's possible with just henna? Or would I need to mix with some slight amounts of indigo to get it that dark without it being bright orange?

It's not possible with just henna, and even with indigo it's going to be brighter than you want unless you're doing an attempt to get near-black levels with a two step process, and at that you're then risking it pulling greenish (not because of any reaction just because of the indigo on top of the very bleached hair).

I go into more detail here on transitioning from chemical to herbal dyes (https://www.nightblooming.com/2018/08/09/faq-how-to-transition-from-chemical-dyes-to-herbal-dyes/), but in your case what I would do is get a deposit-only color (like Adore brand) and backfill your lightened hair to your natural color and then go from there. Because bleaching removes color from the entire hair, and herbal dyes only stain the outside of the hair shaft, you're going to have a color mismatch until you restore color to the inside of the hair shaft.

[Chasemi]

It's not possible with just henna, and even with indigo it's going to be brighter than you want unless you're doing an attempt to get near-black levels with a two step process, and at that you're then risking it pulling greenish (not because of any reaction just because of the indigo on top of the very bleached hair).

I go into more detail here on transitioning from chemical to herbal dyes (https://www.nightblooming.com/2018/08/09/faq-how-to-transition-from-chemical-dyes-to-herbal-dyes/), but in your case what I would do is get a deposit-only color (like Adore brand) and backfill your lightened hair to your natural color and then go from there. Because bleaching removes color from the entire hair, and herbal dyes only stain the outside of the hair shaft, you're going to have a color mismatch until you restore color to the inside of the hair shaft.

Thank you so much for your response!

Editing to ask: am I able to henna soon after a deposit only dye? Or would I have to wait some time?

[Nightshade]

Thank you so much for your response!

Editing to ask: am I able to henna soon after a deposit only dye? Or would I have to wait some time?

Should be able to do it right after if you want :) It's wise to strand test of course, but so long as you're using pure plant matter, you shouldn't run into issues. (Still strand test, though, always wise, especially when henna and indigo are involved!)

[maborosi]

Back when I had dark hair, I was using deposit-only dye to get my hair dark (soft-black, probably level 2-3, my hair varied from level 7-9 back then), then I would do henna treatments on top of that for strength/shine properties- like maybe a day or two later. I got a neat red glinting in the sun and it made my hair so shiny. There weren't any issues whenever I henna'd on top of my dye, just make sure there's no metallic salts in your dye (or henna! make sure whatever henna you use is pure, body-art quality).

[Chasemi]

Thank you so much! I really appreciate you both taking time from your day to give me advice :)

[lillabug]

Planning to take the henna plunge next week and am just researching. There's so much conflicting info I'm a bit confused if hot water activates the dye release, and if I still need to let the mud "cure," for several hours before applying. I worry about it drying out as I live at very high altitude and dry climate.
I was planning to add amla and aloe powder to the pure honey with lemon juice and chamomile tea.

[maborosi]

After you add the hot water and mix it up into a cake batter consistency, you'll want to let the henna mud sit for at least an hour or two to allow for it to dye release. You can check it by skimming some off, letting it sit on your hand for several minutes, then rinsing. If it's ready, it will leave an orange stain on your skin. I don't think it should dry out as long as you keep it covered up with seran wrap/aluminium foil while you're waiting for it to activate, and you've mixed it to a thin enough consistency.

There shouldn't be any issues adding those herbs to your mix. I have never tried lemon juice so I can't speak to how effective it is. :)

Hope that helps some!

[lillabug]

Thank you so very much 😊

[maborosi]

You're welcome! :flower:

[Bat]

I got 4 packs of hennaguys deep red to give away if anyone in Australia uses it, I'll even pay for shipping I don't want to throw them out but every now and again I get tempted to use it but I'll regret it

[lillabug]

Hello here are my results with 2/3 pure henna, 1/3 amla, lemon juice and water:
result: https://ibb.co/3B3zD5t
before: https://ibb.co/wsZzQBV

[maborosi]

Wow, beautiful color, lillabug! That looks so nice on you! :flower:
Also! I love your bangs so much, they are really cute :)

[lillabug]

Thank you so much! I really like having bangs, hides some wrinkles haha. It's a bit redder in natural light but my understanding is it takes 4 days for the color to oxidize? I'm excited I love it!

https://ibb.co/6mQbkQF

[Chasemi]

My hair has become more and more red since the initial day I dyed! I quite like it, its not super noticing indoors but it looks orange/red in natural sunlight! It definitely took mine a few days to get there.

[Bat]

Are there any cassia alternatives to help with shine/growth I can't use Cassia as it gives me headaches I feel ill need to so something later since I'm allergic to leaving My hair alone so want to do something without color deposit to pretend I'm dying it

[Obsidian]

Are there any cassia alternatives to help with shine/growth I can't use Cassia as it gives me headaches I feel ill need to so something later since I'm allergic to leaving My hair alone so want to do something without color deposit to pretend I'm dying it

Look into neem powder or fenugreek powder. I don't know if either helps with shine but both are reported to help with growth and won't color your hair.
I used neem a lot when I was trying to give up henna

[paulownia]

I was planning to add amla and aloe powder to the pure honey with lemon juice and chamomile tea.
Amla or lemon juice but not both:p
They are both acidic and you don't want to overdo with acidity in your mix, it could have a negative effect on the colour. And your hair as well.

[Bat]

Look into neem powder or fenugreek powder. I don't know if either helps with shine but both are reported to help with growth and won't color your hair.
I used neem a lot when I was trying to give up henna

I've used fenugreek before with cassia and got headaches but that might have been the cassia, I'll look for neem, thank you.

[Nightshade]

Are there any cassia alternatives to help with shine/growth I can't use Cassia as it gives me headaches I feel ill need to so something later since I'm allergic to leaving My hair alone so want to do something without color deposit to pretend I'm dying it

You can try Sedr :) It's more like the conditioning benefits of henna than cassia, but it's colorless and lovely to use!

[Bat]

You can try Sedr :) It's more like the conditioning benefits of henna than cassia, but it's colorless and lovely to use!

Ooh thanks for the recommendation! I'll look into getting some

[Celebrian]

In my experience, yes. You get a more copper-red with a 50/50 blend. For me to get a orange-copper I have to scale the mix to 35 henna/65 cassia to get a color that I would peg as more what I feel the 50/50 should look like :)





Having used both cassia and henna on their own, and not currently coloring with a blend of both, the conditioning properties are in the middle. Cassia tends to make my hair more fluffy, henna more sleek, but I get shine with both.




I think henna is a bit more forgiving as it leaves behind stronger conditioning properties. Cassia doesn't have as strong as an immediate effect, so rinsing the grit out strips the oils and whatnot from your hair, but doesn't leave the strong resin coating behind that henna does, hence the fluffiness for a few days until things settle down. A post-cassia oiling, or adding honey to the mix seems to help.



I think cassia tends to be more finely sifted across the board, while henna has a much more mixed bag of good versus poor sift. So long as you get a good sift, they both seem to be easy to apply with a dye bottle with the tip cut larger, but henna seems to be more of a gel, where cassia seems to go from mud to runny with the nice gel middle phase.




I don't have an issue with my 35% henna /65% cassia mix staining my skin on my face or neck, but it will produce a faint stain that fades quickly on my palms and nails.




Not really :) I find that even with my fairly dilute blend I still get discernible dye release in the form of the mud turning brown, or puddles of orange on the top. It also still passes the "dot your hand with the mix and let it sit for 30 seconds then wipe, if you have orange behind you're ready" test.

That said, I treat my henna/cassia blend just like I did my henna mix. I blend it with hot chamomile tea, mix with a hand mixer, cover, and put atop a pan on my food dehydrator base for 4 hours or so.

Hi there, back from a henna free world after years!
I'm currently very pale blonde with some light silver roots, and feel I'd like to test my poor over bleached hair to the goodness of henna/cassia - plus my complexion needs a richer colour then the one I currently have.
I know I want a copper effect, and I don't want to go too dark. I was wondering whether to do 50/50 just to start, and then have the option of doing 35/65 henna/cassia thereafter to prevent it darkening over time. There again, my silver roots may end up always being a bit too light and bright!

Please help. 😃

[Nightshade]

Hi there, back from a henna free world after years!
I'm currently very pale blonde with some light silver roots, and feel I'd like to test my poor over bleached hair to the goodness of henna/cassia - plus my complexion needs a richer colour then the one I currently have.
I know I want a copper effect, and I don't want to go too dark. I was wondering whether to do 50/50 just to start, and then have the option of doing 35/65 henna/cassia thereafter to prevent it darkening over time. There again, my silver roots may end up always being a bit too light and bright!

Please help. ��

I posted the ratios in another thread, but I'm currently at 40g henna per 100g because my whites needed a bit of extra oomph to stain. 50/50 proved darker than I wanted when I tried that several years ago. My whites are REALLY bright, though. (I like this, they look like highlights)

[Celebrian]

Thankyou, Nightshade. I'll think about the raid carefully. I already did one strand with a mix of flat tspn cassia, and a rounded tspn henna. It's 30 hours old and is currently too 🧡!!
It occurred to me that if I still go too orange on a full head application, I've actually got some blue shampoo (as well as purple) so that's on standby.
I've also got your Sun-In tucked in my repertoire should I need it.
Such a commitment. I'm a little nervous so may try a gloss first. Would you advise a similar henna/cassia balance for a copper effect? Thanks for reading. 😃

[Nightshade]

Thankyou, Nightshade. I'll think about the raid carefully. I already did one strand with a mix of flat tspn cassia, and a rounded tspn henna. It's 30 hours old and is currently too ��!!
It occurred to me that if I still go too orange on a full head application, I've actually got some blue shampoo (as well as purple) so that's on standby.
I've also got your Sun-In tucked in my repertoire should I need it.
Such a commitment. I'm a little nervous so may try a gloss first. Would you advise a similar henna/cassia balance for a copper effect? Thanks for reading. ��

My experience with glosses is that (compared to using really overtuned senna like I do which is powerfully gold) they seem diluted and flat in color as opposed to the bright copper I get--that's just my experience with glosses though :) They sure are easier!

[JonnyBlue]

Hi everybody,

I have dirty blond hair that is about 30% gray/white.

I am afraid to use Henna because I have a light complexion and light colored hair. I am trying to get a very subtle color change so I will not appear so gray.

My questions are: If I use a combination of Henna 5-10% and cassia 90-95%, do the cassia and henna each fade at different rates, so that when the cassia fades , will this leave a henna residue that will turn my hair red ?

Or, when you mix henna and cassia, do they somehow blend together, and fade at the same rate and together, so that my hair will not turn red, but will just get lighter colored before returning to the original gray.white color?

Does anyone have any thoughts or advice on my plan?

[Nightshade]

Hi everybody,

I have dirty blond hair that is about 30% gray/white.

I am afraid to use Henna because I have a light complexion and light colored hair. I am trying to get a very subtle color change so I will not appear so gray.

My questions are: If I use a combination of Henna 5-10% and cassia 90-95%, do the cassia and henna each fade at different rates, so that when the cassia fades , will this leave a henna residue that will turn my hair red ?

Or, when you mix henna and cassia, do they somehow blend together, and fade at the same rate and together, so that my hair will not turn red, but will just get lighter colored before returning to the original gray.white color?

Does anyone have any thoughts or advice on my plan?


The latter: the cassia dilutes the henna so even if the cassia fades, you're left with very, very little henna so it's not like the cassia washes out and suddenly your hair is orange. Henna is bulletproof for most people, though whites are more resistant--so I would expect your color to fade to a golden tint rather than back to gray-white.

The cassia can fade faster than the henna, but generally it doesn't in a way that's noticeable. You could also just do a pure cassia treatment if you wanted a golden shine refresh without adding more henna

[JonnyBlue]

The latter: the cassia dilutes the henna so even if the cassia fades, you're left with very, very little henna so it's not like the cassia washes out and suddenly your hair is orange. Henna is bulletproof for most people, though whites are more resistant--so I would expect your color to fade to a golden tint rather than back to gray-white.

The cassia can fade faster than the henna, but generally it doesn't in a way that's noticeable. You could also just do a pure cassia treatment if you wanted a golden shine refresh without adding more henna


Thank you so much for your reply,

I think that I understand, but I am not certain. I do not think I am explaining my question clearly.

Perhaps if I rephrase my question like this.

If I use Cassia 50% and Henna 50% I will probably get a darker reddish color.

However, if use 95% cassia and 5% henna once month, I will get a golden color. Understood so far.

However, if I use 95% cassia and 5% henna 10 times, such as one application each month for 10 months, that would be 10 times 5% or approximately the same amount of henna as I would use one time in the 50%-50% mix, right?

So, if I am coating the same sections of hair (and not just the roots) each month with the 95% cassia -5 henna mix, at the end of 10 months will my hair (those sections that are treated during each of the 10 session) be the same dark reddish color as doing the one time 50-50 cassia henna mix?

Or will my hair be golden colored?

Or some shade darker than golden but lighter than the one treatment with 50-50% cassia henna? How much lighter? Should I only be doing roots each time even with such a low percentage of henna?

Thanks again.

[JonnyBlue]

The latter: the cassia dilutes the henna so even if the cassia fades, you're left with very, very little henna so it's not like the cassia washes out and suddenly your hair is orange. Henna is bulletproof for most people, though whites are more resistant--so I would expect your color to fade to a golden tint rather than back to gray-white.

The cassia can fade faster than the henna, but generally it doesn't in a way that's noticeable. You could also just do a pure cassia treatment if you wanted a golden shine refresh without adding more henna


Thank you so much for your reply,

I think that I understand, but I am not certain. I do not think I am explaining my question clearly.

Perhaps if I rephrase my question like this.

If I use Cassia 50% and Henna 50% I will probably get a darker reddish color.

However, if use 95% cassia and 5% henna once month, I will get a golden color. Understood so far.

However, if I use 95% cassia and 5% henna 10 times, such as one application each month for 10 months, that would be 10 times 5% or approximately the same amount of henna as I would use one time in the 50%-50% mix, right?

So, if I am coating the same sections of hair (and not just the roots) each month with the 95% cassia -5 henna mix, at the end of 10 months will my hair (those sections that are treated during each of the 10 session) be the same dark reddish color as doing the one time 50-50 cassia henna mix?

Or will my hair be golden colored?

Or some shade darker than golden but lighter than the one treatment with 50-50% cassia henna? How much lighter? Should I only be doing roots each time even with such a low percentage of henna?

Thanks again.

[Nightshade]

Thank you so much for your reply,

I think that I understand, but I am not certain. I do not think I am explaining my question clearly.

Perhaps if I rephrase my question like this.

If I use Cassia 50% and Henna 50% I will probably get a darker reddish color. However, if use 95% cassia and 5% henna once month, I will get a golden color. Understood so far.

Yes, this is correct for the 95% cassia, but 50/50 is going to give you more of a bright copper than a darker red (granted everything with henna is relative). My color, for example is about 35-40% henna.


However, if I use 95% cassia and 5% henna 10 times, such as one application each month for 10 months, that would be 10 times 5% or approximately the same amount of henna as I would use one time in the 50%-50% mix, right?

So, if I am coating the same sections of hair (and not just the roots) each month with the 95% cassia -5 henna mix, at the end of 10 months will my hair (those sections that are treated during each of the 10 session) be the same dark reddish color as doing the one time 50-50 cassia henna mix?

Or will my hair be golden colored?

Or some shade darker than golden but lighter than the one treatment with 50-50% cassia henna? How much lighter? Should I only be doing roots each time even with such a low percentage of henna?

Okay this is where it gets a little weird :) So the chrysophanic acid in senna is what gives the yellow color and that's not nearly as permanent as henna. When I touch up my roots every month, there's inevitable overlap, but as you can see in my photos, there's no buildup for what is probably 6 months (at least) of overlapping root touchups before I'm not hitting that hair anymore. I find senna-heavy blends do fade and are very forgiving with layering up to the point where it virtually doesn't happen at all with very dilute henna blends.

[paulownia]

I plan to go towards copper :D
I will be doing roots on Sunday and I will probably mix around 70% of henna with 30% cassia and use apple juice in the mix. Hoping for nice, darker copper shade on my greys.