The CO (conditioner only) washing thread

[pariate]

Hi

I looked through the boards and couldn't find a CO thread. I can't run a search with the phrase "CO" because it's too short, but couldn't find any CO threads when I searched with conditioner, wash or washing. So I apologise if there is already one in existence - I promise I tried hard to find it! ;)

I thought it would be good to have a support group for CO washers old and new. I think it would be a good resource for anyone thinking of starting CO washing and also a reminder for existing COers who need to troubleshoot from time to time. Case in point - me, today, totally freaked out by my hair and wondering what the hell to do to fix it. I ran to LHC for help and got it in barrel loads, as always :D Fellow COers reminded me that a clarifying wash is sometimes necessary, even when using cone-free conditioners for CO. Deep down I already knew that but had completely forgotten it today...

So what do you think? Shall we give it a go? We can share info on CO conditioners, rinses, troubleshooting tips, induct newbies, the whole works!

xxx

[Newniepg]

Ooh goody! somewhere I can post a burning question. It's sort of a 'cone/CO' question actually. I started COing a little while ago and my hair feels lovely. I have just used up the last of my cone filled conditioner.

My question is this, does it matter if the shampoo I use to clarify my hair with (when I switch to non cones) has cones in it? Does shampoo even have cones? <hides whilst everyone laughs at the newbie>

Should I do something clever with baking soda instead?

Thanks, and sorry if this question is in the wrong spot!

I really do love COing, my hair is so much softer and easier to control.

[AJoifulNoise]

Sure, I'll bite. I've been doing CO since July 2007. I mostly use Herbal Essences Hello Hydration, Break's Over, and None of Your Frizzness. But, I throw in a couple others every so often to mix it up.

So, from that you can probably tell that I am a conehead. So, to avoid getting limp hair with build-up I shampoo/condition once a week.

I saw a drastic improvement in my hair from day one with CO and haven't looked back.

[pariate]

My question is this, does it matter if the shampoo I use to clarify my hair with (when I switch to non cones) has cones in it? Does shampoo even have cones? <hides whilst everyone laughs at the newbie>

I really do love COing, my hair is so much softer and easier to control.

Welcome!

I would definitely use a cone-free clarifying shampoo. Shampoos can be positively BURSTING with cones! The one I use is by MOP (Modern Organic Products). It's part of their C-System range, it's called Clean Shampoo and it's sulfate and fragrance free. I love it. Always does the trick for me.

Nobody will laugh at you for asking questions like this ;)

[pariate]

Hi AJoifulNoise. Good to see you here :)

[Mangachan]

I've used shampoo only once or twice this year thanks to co-washing. I LOVE it.

[Newniepg]

Thank you so much! I certainly can't complain about question response times on here! <toddles off to buy a non-coney shampoo>

Since COing (and joining the LHC) I have been enjoying my hair washing time a whole lot more, it has become exciting to see the results. :)

[pariate]

I know what you mean! Wash day used to be an emotional minefield, wondering what awful frizz I'd have to battle for the following few days. For the first six months of COing my hair was a wonder... until I forgot that I have to clarify every six weeks or so! I'm looking forward to having lovely soft supple hair again tomorrow.

[Ohio Sky]

What do you all use to clarify? Ive been COing once a week or so, just to keep m hair up until I wash with GR shampoo and condish once a week. I think my hair likes it and I may try COing exclusively at some point, but Ive tried the BS thing and it did NOT work for me.

[Patrycja]

thank you so much for starting(or restarting)this thread.I've tried CO here and there with really awesome results and some more often bad results.I just can't seem to get the right time down for the first C.I usually try to keep the first conditioner in for 10-15 minutes but the next time I CO with that same amount of time,it doesn't work.I try to use conefree for the first and end with a nice heavy cone for the last conditioner.I really dont like to use commerical shampoo and I can't afford to get a bar right now.Hopefully-this thread will help me with the trouble I've been having with CO and maybe just maybe my hair will love it.

[AJoifulNoise]

What do you all use to clarify? Ive been COing once a week or so, just to keep m hair up until I wash with GR shampoo and condish once a week. I think my hair likes it and I may try COing exclusively at some point, but Ive tried the BS thing and it did NOT work for me.

I've been using the shampoo counterparts to my conditioners. So, I use Hello Hydration and None of Your Frizzness HE conditioners. However, that's mostly because I'm still trying to use up the 3 bottles I had before I started CO in July! :lol: Someday, months from now I will use these up and try something else.

[amaiaisabella]

I have just started CO, and LOVE it.

My question is, do you need to shampoo every once in a while to really "deep clean"? My hair feels clean but a couple of people have commented that it's lying a little flat on top.

Other than than, my hair feels so much more moisturized, and I actually feel like I have real hair!

[pariate]

I just can't seem to get the right time down for the first C.I usually try to keep the first conditioner in for 10-15 minutes but the next time I CO with that same amount of time,it doesn't work.

Hi :)

When you say it doesn't work, do you mean that it doesn't clean your hair enough? Does it leave you with greasy/dirty looking hair? Are you massaging the "washing" conditioner into your scalp or just letting it sit? I find I have to apply a little pressure to the scalp to help lift the dirt.

[Patrycja]

yup.It feels rather dirty and greasy afterwards.I take off the shower cap add a little water and scrub deep with my nails.Its like my hair says "wow..hey-I like this" and the next time it goes "um...no."It doesn't know what it likes LOL

[pariate]

Maybe it's the nails that are the problem - I have quite long nails but I am very careful NEVER to scrub my scalp with them. You need to use the pads of your fingers and go firmly but gently and slowly. If you use your nails you're probably damaging the strands and your scalp. The pads of your fingers will be much more effective at loosening the dirt IMHO.

Try that, see how it goes. You might also need to rethink your choice of CO wash conditioner.

[pariate]

My question is, do you need to shampoo every once in a while to really "deep clean"? My hair feels clean but a couple of people have commented that it's lying a little flat on top.

Hello!

I'd say yes. I use cone-free conditioners for my CO but even they can build up after a while. You need to clarify every so often (I usually do it every 6-8 weeks, depending on how my hair looks and feels) to prevent build up. While LHC was down I fell in to very bad habits and forgot lots of important points about my routine! I hadn't clarified my hair since December :scared:and my hair looked thin, lifeless and felt like a brillo pad! I couldn't figure out what I was doing wrong... until I posted an SOS on LHC and had lots of COers tell me that it sounded like build up and I probably needed to clarify! I used a clarifying shampoo today. My hair is almost dry and I can already see a HUUUUUUUUUUGE improvement.

Hope that helps :)

[shell78]

Me! I've been CO for a year and stay away from silicones. (My impression was that if you used silicone conditioners as CO that you run the risk of buildup?)

My favorites are Suave Naturals Coconut and Devacurl No-Poo.

[Riot Crrl]

Me! I've been CO for a year and stay away from silicones. (My impression was that if you used silicone conditioners as CO that you run the risk of buildup?)

I always thought it depended on the silicones. There are ones that are soluble in water, or things like alcohols which may be present in the conditioner itself. If that's the case, I think it would be OK.

[Loops]

Hiya -

I don't know if this helps, but I went through a build-up stage with my hair (after about a month of CO only). I pushed through it without clarifying, with the addition of essential oils and a bit of vinegar to my washing conditioner and no more build-up. I was using an amodimethicone leave-in conditioner at the time as well.

I also find that some types of protein in conditioners can build up on me. I didn't know why my hair was feeling dry and brittle until someone mentioned this. I switched to protein-free conditioners and a protein-free leave in and everything felt much better. My hair absolutely detests soy protein, but I have a l'anza leave in that has human hair keratin - it is actually a protein leave-in - and I get very nice results with this (it also has dimethicone copolyol).

Polyquats also build up on me and make my hair feel disgusting.

I also find jojoba oil tends to dissolve build up for me. A light oiling with this, then COed out does the trick if you don't want to have to shampoo.

Loops

[Ohio Sky]

What are some of the best CO conditioners?
I have used VO5 Vanilla Mint Tea and it smells so good :D

[amaiaisabella]

Hello!

I'd say yes. I use cone-free conditioners for my CO but even they can build up after a while. You need to clarify every so often (I usually do it every 6-8 weeks, depending on how my hair looks and feels) to prevent build up. While LHC was down I fell in to very bad habits and forgot lots of important points about my routine! I hadn't clarified my hair since December :scared:and my hair looked thin, lifeless and felt like a brillo pad! I couldn't figure out what I was doing wrong... until I posted an SOS on LHC and had lots of COers tell me that it sounded like build up and I probably needed to clarify! I used a clarifying shampoo today. My hair is almost dry and I can already see a HUUUUUUUUUUGE improvement.

Hope that helps :)

My only concern is they will dry my hair out! My hair is very dry and fragile, and the CO was a huge improvement- only the top is driving me nuts. Do you think I could try just a bit of a gentle shampoo? - Garnier Nutrisse for colored hair always worked well for me.

[intothemist1999]

I can't do it today because I have the itchies and feel like I need a good, deep clean, but I think I'm going to try CO again.

Can anyone suggest a light cone-free conditioner that has no animal testing (and no animal ingredients)?

My only complaint with the CO/the conditioners I've tried is that - like with ilovemycop - the results aren't consistent. Sometimes it's great, sometimes it's not so much :)

By that I mean with the first few CO washes, the hair will look great, and I can skip a day between washes, but after a few times it will start to look greasy with less and less time after the wash.

Is that normal? I'm curious how often other CO'ers need to wash their hair.


.

[AJoifulNoise]

By that I mean with the first few CO washes, the hair will look great, and I can skip a day between washes, but after a few times it will start to look greasy with less and less time after the wash.

Is that normal? I'm curious how often other CO'ers need to wash their hair.

I CO everyday for 5 days (Mon-Fri). Then I shampoo/condition on Saturday. Yes, it does get limper a bit quicker everyday. That's why I throw in the shampoo once a week.

[intothemist1999]

I CO everyday for 5 days (Mon-Fri). Then I shampoo/condition on Saturday. Yes, it does get limper a bit quicker everyday. That's why I throw in the shampoo once a week.


Thanks, Joiful! I'm going to give that a try! :)


.

[CitznMag]

Hey everyone. I'm back to CO'ing, thank goodness :)! I've neglected my hair by going back to shampoo for the last 4-5 months and now can appreciate the benefits of CO'ing. So never again!! My ends were so split and knotted, and uneven and there was so much shedding (the shedding, however, due to a combo of stress, perimenopause and crappy diet), that I couldn't take it anymore and chopped of 6 inches. It's so much healthier looking now and there is much less tangling.

My hiatus from CO'ing has helped me reevaluate my length goals and I no longer want to go beyond BSL. It is better to have pretty, manageable curls than long knotted, split unhealthy looking hair.

I use the cheapie stuff, Suave Vanilla Floral or Coconut and unrefined coconut oil.

[AlleyKitten]

I see a lot of you talking about buildup and periodic clarifying just being part of life with CO -- does that mean that using a conditioner that gives me buildup is ok for my hair as long as I clarify when it starts getting icky? I've been worrying lately that I'm doing some kind of damage to my hair by sticking with the VO5 stuff I love so much, because it gives me buildup after a month or two.

Also, does anyone have any tips for reducing buildup in general? I've been using a tiny bit of diluted shampoo in my routine because CO doesn't quite get my hair clean enough, but I don't think it's doing the trick for getting rid of buildup.

[rhubarbarin]

I've been COing for 6 years now, after reading the Curly Girl book. Stupidly, I didn't pay attention the importance of ingredients, and especially cones. I washed and left in the same dimethicone conditioner while my hair grew from a 1" buzz cut, to almost waist length stretched. However as it got longer it was terribly dry, so frizzy I had to wash it every day or it just looked like a poofball, and thin at the ends and easily broken, not at all the way it used to be. I blame this on -cone build-up and damage (although of course I subjected my hair to other ill-treatment as well).

ANYway I have stopped using cones, seen a huge improvment in my hair, and hope to gradually grow it out thicker and healthier, using more natural products. I still faithfully CO wash - usually with Aubrey Organics Honeysuckle Rose, or with Burt's Bees Grapefruit or Green Tea when my hair gets a bit greasy from too long with the HR. I also use Burt's Bees condish as a leave-in.

[Stacy_E]

I started CO washing over a year ago. At first it was not working, in that my hair seemed greasy and limp. But then a couple of technique changes helped make it better and I have had no problems since. Here's what I do:

1. I did clarify before starting. I used Neutrogena Anti-residue shampoo because that is what I had before, but I think many shampoos would fit the bill. I have heard good things about Suave Daily Clarifying. I think most any shampoo with ALES would work to clarify.

2. I rotate between several cone-free conditioners (I like to choose something according to my "mood" for that day's washing), and I tend to avoid the ones with protein, using them only once in a while in my rotation. My favorites are in the Suave Naturals line, including Aloe Waterlily, Cucumber Melon, Mountain Strawberry, Ocean, Waterfall Mist, Tangerine (a new one). I also like Suave Daily Clarifying conditioner. Another conditioner I really like is Trader Joe's Nourish Spa--I dilute this with water at about a 1:4 ratio and I love the silkiness and "lather" I can get with this. I've tried several of the VO5 conditioners that many prefer, but I just wasn't lovin' the fragrance of any of them (except the Kiwi Lime Squeeze is okay).

3. I apply the conditioner to sopping wet hair in the shower. First I apply a palmful to the bangs and top of my head. Another palmful goes to the temples and sides. Then I tend to tip my head down and apply another palmful to the back of my scalp, from the nape to the top along the back. A final palmful goes to the length and ends.

4. This was one of the keys for success for me: work in the conditioner really well, all over, using the pads of my fingers and massaging pretty vigorously (but not too hard!).

5. I let the conditioner sit in my hair while I complete the rest of my shower, to include shaving, etc.

6. This was another key for me: I put my head under the showerhead really quickly, like 1 second's time, just to get more water into the conditioner on my hair. I then work the conditioner through my hair some more, like a good shampoo massage. Then I put my head back into the flow of the water and continue massaging to rinse well.

7. I CO wash every other day. For the off days I like to still wet my hair in the shower.

8. I do shampoo about once a week, either using the CWC method or S&C. I use a sulfate-free shampoo (Queen Helene Mint Julep currently) and follow with a nice moisturizing conditioner (my favorite is Biolage Conditioning Balm). My hair does not look its best on a shampoo day, but I like the resulting feel of it. It tends to give my hair that little extra bit of cleaning, and provides more body.

So I am very happy with CO washing as my primary cleansing method and plan to continue with it. My hair has no splits, and feels nice and soft as a result.

[Riot Crrl]

I see a lot of you talking about buildup and periodic clarifying just being part of life with CO -- does that mean that using a conditioner that gives me buildup is ok for my hair as long as I clarify when it starts getting icky?

Clarifying is not really the same if we're not talking about silicones and other things that are very challenging to wash out. I can use really, really heavy conditioners that are silicone-free but really plant-oil-laden. If I overuse those, a vinegar rinse will just fix it right up.

[pariate]

Do you think I could try just a bit of a gentle shampoo? - Garnier Nutrisse for colored hair always worked well for me.

If it works for you then go for it :) Whilst I am a huge fan of CO, I know it's not necessarily right for eveyone! Even the people who love it have occasional problems with it, as my experience this week proves. Lots of people modify the "classic" CO routine to suit their hair and their lifestyles.

[pariate]

Intothemist - I use a paraben and cone free "base" conditioner from a company called the Soap Kitchen. It's the kind of thing designed for people who want a super-basic conditioner that they can tweak themselves, adding other conditioning agents, fragrance etc. It's really thin and cleanses my hair really well. If you can find a company in Canada that does something similar that might be what you're looking for.

Hope that helps!

[pariate]

Also, does anyone have any tips for reducing buildup in general?


Hi :)

Lots of people on LHC use baking soda or sulfate shampoos to clarify. If you search the boards for "clarify" you might find some other methods.

I've experimented with baking soda before and my personal feeling is that it takes a lot of very careful adjustment to make it work for each individual's hairtype. I have to use an incredibly weak dilution, otherwise it seems to suck every drop of moisture out of my hair even if I use an acidic rinse afterwards!

I prefer to use shampoo, but I must follow that with a decent oiling. If I don't, I get frizz :( It's allllllll about the experimentation ;)

Let us know what works for you hon.

[pariate]

Stacy_E - Such a great explanation of your routine! Thank you. I used to use C-COW-C. I haven't tried CWC yet. I was worried that neither of these methods would clarify my hair enough, but it sounds like it works for you!

[Faepirate]

I'm still new to CO but I've noticed such an improvement in the length already. I C-COW-C'd for a while and it didn't work so well for me. When I shampooed, even with diluted shampoo, the top layer of hair at the back and the ends would feel very dry - and I did not shampoo directly onto the length, only to the scalp and roots. I also always ended up with a greasy, "sticky" feeling crown after 2 days. Ugh. It seems I don't get that with CO. My hair is soft all the way to the ends and when it gets greasy it's not such a nasty feeling - the greasiness still feels cleaner somehow, if that makes any sense.

So I am sticking with CO for now. I'm sure at some point my hair will rebel, as it does with most products and routines, but for now it is very happy!

My only issue with it is that my hair seems to be a darker shade of golden blonde. I'm hoping this will fix itself... o_O I liked it brighter. But I'm more concerned about the condition. If this makes my hair silky and happy, then I'll just have to deal with the darker colour or find another way to lighten it!

[Newniepg]

ok, so I washed my hair this morning with cone free conditioner. It tangled up a bit, which it hasn't before. It's the first time I have gone cone free so I will persevere and see how it goes. For other people, did you know immediately that cone free condition only wasn't for you, or did you find out after a prolonged period?

[Faepirate]

For other people, did you know immediately that cone free condition only wasn't for you, or did you find out after a prolonged period?

I can only speak for myself, but yes I noticed that at first when I went cone-free my hair had a bit of an adjustment period when it would tangle more and my baby hairs would form more of a frizzy halo.
That said, I've been cone-free now since the very start of 2008 and my hair seems to really love these products now! I would prefer to remain cone-free, because in my opinion my hair looks and feels so much better nowadays, less coated and more vibrant and shiny. It did take a while for my hair to adjust to it but I find it hardly tangles at all now so perhaps it's finally settled into the no-cones routine. :)


It helps my hair if I oil it heavily(ish) before a shower and then when rinsing out the conditioner rinse the hair in sections, making sure that when I come out of the shower all my hair is lying neatly on my head and not all messily tossed about.

Today after I washed I found it wasn't tangled at all. I didn't even have to finger-comb. Am happy. *beams*


It also helps me to really concentrate on working a heavier conditioner into the length, from the ears down, and particularly the ends. I massage it very carefully and thoroughly, trying to keep it as smooth as possible. Rough handling in the shower leads to tangles.


Ooooh, ALSO, I ACV-rinsed after my CO today. I don't know if that contributed to the lack of tangles but it may have! I don't usually ACV rinse but if it dries nicely (it's only half dry as I type) I think I will add it to the end of my CO wash in future because my hair feels gorgeous at present. :D

[amaiaisabella]

If it works for you then go for it :) Whilst I am a huge fan of CO, I know it's not necessarily right for eveyone! Even the people who love it have occasional problems with it, as my experience this week proves. Lots of people modify the "classic" CO routine to suit their hair and their lifestyles.

I am going to try it, but I concerned it will strip the color from my hair. I colored a week ago, and the CO has kept my color vibrant- like I just colored it yesterday! I love it like that, and I don't want the shampoo to change that :( But I'm thinking maybe a bit over a dime size, diluted with water, might not hurt?

[Shorty89]

I have a quick question. My hair is still as thick but I notice that is is "scooshier". I don't know how to explain it, but if I braid it, my braid is really thin, yet if I do a bun I can still feel all my thickness there. Is this normal? I"m guessing it's a good thing.

[intothemist1999]

. For other people, did you know immediately that cone free condition only wasn't for you, or did you find out after a prolonged period?


In my case I never paid much attention to my hair prior to joinnig TLHC last summer, so I have no idea how any particular product was affecting my hair.

From what I read after joining, going cone-less (whether CO or S&C or CWC) seemed like a good idea so I've been doing that for many months. I'm not one to fuss over my hair or examine it closely and I don't pay too much attention to it besides enjoying running my fingers through it when it feels especially nice :D (just don't ask about the frizz! *lol*) At some point alont the way, I discovered that yes, my hair does seem nicer without cones.

I'm jumping back on the CO bandwagon. It's awful muggy tonight and I hate showering when it's like that - I get out and I still feel damp! :/ I may wait till later or tomorrow when it's cooler.

[Madeleine]

I have been C/Oing for a couple of years now. I don't use shampoo at all anymore - I found that with the right conditioner I don't get any buildup.
The only products that touch my hair these days are conditioner (mostly Nivea for coloured hair) every other day, henna (about once a month), BWC leave-in (after henna only), and Women's Regaine to reduce hair loss (twice a day). Without Regaine I'd probably have to wash much less often, that stuff ist terribly sticky.

If I feel that one C/O doesn't get my hair squeaky clean I just rinse and repeat, that'll do it.

[BrianaFineHair]

I did my first CO wash last night. I did a light vinegar rinse afterwards. The results were very nice! I was actually quite surprised thinking my hair would be oily looking and flat.

I need to read through this entire thread to find out what exactly is the benefit of CO only washing.

My conditioner is Burt's Bees Raspberry and Brazil Nut More Moisture. (For some reason I thought it was Pomegranate and I posted that in another thread. I need to know for sure what the heck I'm using!)

[Patrycja]

ok...did a CO last night.I used Sauve Coconut for my first C,left it on for about 10-15 minutes and scrubbed gently with my nails and rinses.For the second conditioner,I used HE Hello Hydration and rinsed shortly after applying it.It did clean my hair suffientely but after wearing my hairup today for the Challenge,it was sort of greasy.I am more impressed today after my past experiences with CO..I also got Giovanni leave-in today as a final touch to my CO.

[groque]

:)Love CO. Never would have thought that COg would get your hair clean but it does and now I notice I don't have to use all the stuff I used to get it to feel better.

[amaiaisabella]

I am using a great conditioner for my CO but it is a bit expensive and a small bottle (Kiss my Face whenever conditioner). I am wondering if it would be okay to dilute it, or if it would decrease the power of the conditioner and make it not as effective. Has anyone diluted their conditioner and come up with the same results?

[AJoifulNoise]

For other people, did you know immediately that cone free condition only wasn't for you, or did you find out after a prolonged period?

The longest I've ever gone cone-free was a week. It was the worst hair-week I've ever haid. It started out okay. But, everyday my hair got more and more dry and tangly. So, I knew fairly quickly that my hair likes cones. I still throw in a cone-free wash about once a week. But, only once I've washed with cones at least once.

[mitabird]

I've been CO only for almost 4 years and I don't use shampoo at all. I usually use Burt's Bee's Grapefruit & Sugar Beet and Devacurl No Poo. I condition with a heavier conditioner after CO washing as well. I don't use the NP on my scalp as I find it doesn't do an adequate enough job of cleansing it. I also have some old versions of VO5 CO's that I throw into the mix. I like doing weekly acv rinses; it makes my hair feel nice.

[joyousgard]

Do any of you CO girls use WEN? I originally discovered the concept of CO washing when I started using WEN. I love WEN and used it exclusively for almost a year, but it's become so expensive I just can't afford it anymore. At one time I had all "flavors" in my shower, but my favorites were the Cucumber Aloe and Sweet Almond Mint. I still use the SAM Styling Cream and SAM Oil after I cleanse.

Currently I'm using Aussie Moist or Suave Daily Clarifying conditioner. It's been almost two years now since any shampoo has touched my hair. However, I'm starting to wonder if I need to do something to clarify. I use a lot of setting lotion and hairspray on my hair because I set it in rollers a lot, and perhaps the conditioner isn't getting out all the build up. My hair has been pretty limp for the past few days.

What are my options for clarifying that don't involve the use of shampoo? Or maybe I need to use a different conditioner? I can't believe it's been almost two years and I'm just now starting to see build up. My hair feels great... it doesn't look greasy. It's just pretty blah looking and very limp.

[Faepirate]

Does anyone find that they get yucky ends after a while with cone-free CO? My ends seem to have become immune to moisturising! They've been feeling really crusty and looking straggly no matter how careful I am with them or how much moisture I smother them with.

Today I did a final rinse with apple cider vinegar diluted in warm tap water.

That seems to have done the trick, so I'm assuming it's something to do with either oil (I oil the ends before every wash) or conditioner residue coating the hair shaft...? Anyone come across similar problems?

(Still, it beats having breakage and constantly dry hair any day!! And even better if it's fixable with ACV. Perhaps if I do an ACV rinse once every week or 2, that might sort it out.)

[savi]

Does anyone find that they get yucky ends after a while with cone-free CO? My ends seem to have become immune to moisturising! They've been feeling really crusty and looking straggly no matter how careful I am with them or how much moisture I smother them with.

Today I did a final rinse with apple cider vinegar diluted in warm tap water.

That seems to have done the trick, so I'm assuming it's something to do with either oil (I oil the ends before every wash) or conditioner residue coating the hair shaft...? Anyone come across similar problems?

Try clarifying, my ends start doing that too when I need to clarify. And I've been wondering about the oils too for awhile.

[Faepirate]

Try clarifying, my ends start doing that too when I need to clarify. And I've been wondering about the oils too for awhile.

Well, see, I did try clarifying but shampoo really kills my hair. I diluted it loads and it still went ballistic! In with the frizz! :eek: So I went straight from gunky to dry in one wash - it wasn't pretty. :( I had to pile on the conditioners and oils, which again resulted in gunky - go figure...
But after today's experience I think perhaps ACV is enough for me. I'll wait for it to dry fully until I make my final verdict but vinegar does gently clarify somewhat, doesn't it? I'll keep going with a once-a-week vinegar rinse and see if it helps to keep my ends pretty.

[MoonCreature]

I've been CO with a cone-free no-poo conditioner for almost 2 months now. It's wonderfull, I have a lot less tangles, it's shinier and stays cleaner for a longer period. BUT, I've started having a major problem with split ends and breakage! I bought a heavier condition for the ends now, hoping that will solve it.

I started thinking that maybe the splits/breakage was hidden by the cones, but it's strange that new keep popping up like crazy when I've started CO, combing gently instead of ripping a brush through, regular oiling and keeping my hair up. :rolleyes:

[Loviatar]

MoonCreature, that happened to me originally when I went cone free. It took a while to settle down, but it eventually did. (I have a lot of old bleach and dye damage on the lower half of my hair, and it was this part that looked trashed.)

I found that misting and damp bunning (OK, for a while it was damp folded ponytailing, as I didnt have long enough hair to make a bun!) really helped, also SMT/deep treatments (especially a little blob of deep conditioner just on the ends) and coconut oil applied to damp hair and left to air dry. I didnt need to snip splits much, either.

HTH.

[Loviatar]

I forgot to say:

I've CO'd for a while now, with the occasional CWC thrown in. I use conefree products because coney ones flatten my hair and turn my ii/iii into a very thin ii. I used to get more shine with cones, but now I get my shine from henna and misting.

The conditioners I like best are the VO5s, Superdrug Aloe Vera or Citrus, and Inecto Pure Coconut Oil Conditioner. I CO every 2 or 3 days in winter, and every day in summer (I dont think I have to, I just like to when it's so warm. I like the freshly washed feeling in warm weather.) I usually do a 'short CO' (left on for maybe 5 minutes max) on wet hair. If I have taking a long bath or shower I will put conditioner on my hair for up to 30 minutes, but have left it on for an hour before now.

I also sometimes add honey to my conditioner and that works great.

I also use Goth Rosary conditioner in my old mister (2 parts GR to 8 parts water) and the same dilution of the Inecto in my new mister. Both are great, but the GR is better for scent and the Inecto is better for conditioning. It really soaks in and my hair drinks it up.

I love CO and would only go back to s/c if they stopped making conefree conditioners :)

[QueenBea]

And so far I like it a lot. I'm using a very cheap dollar tree conditioner for my "wash" and using up the last of some 3 minute miracle for a final conditioning. That stuff used to work wonders for me, but it ain't doing it anymore---I'll try some new ones after this is gone ( a couple more days).

So far, on day 4, my hair feels really soft. Limpness isn't an issue because I ALWAYS wear my hair up--at this length without layers and without straightening it, it's too pyramid-y to wear down. I'm hoping when it hits APL or BSL, I can wear it down more------

I'll keep an eye on this thread for more tips and ideas as I get into this; I have a dream of not ever shampooing again :) but who knows how even this week will play out ----

Bea

[Katurday]

Hello, I'm kinda new to (good) haircare and the LHC, so I was wondering how conditioner only works.
I've clarified my hair last night, and used a non-cone dish on my hair afterward.
Can conditioner only wash your hair?
Will it leave greasyness?
Is only shampooing REALLY bad for your hair?(Gentle, solid, SLS free)
Is there a transition period?

[DrkAngel]

BUT, I've started having a major problem with split ends and breakage! I bought a heavier condition for the ends now, hoping that will solve it.

You could oil the ends. I do a very light coconut oiling at the ends when I come out of the shower to prevent splits. The light coating keeps my ends protected for the day (that and gentle handling). I also keeps them moisturized (apply it when it's still wet).

BTW, I've been COing for a 1 1/2 years now and it's the best I've ever done for my hair.

[DrkAngel]

Katurday, I think I can answer your questions.

Hello, I'm kinda new to (good) haircare and the LHC, so I was wondering how conditioner only works.

This is from www.hennaforhair.com:

Conditioner contains what's known as surfactants (surfactants of different types are
also found in fabric softener with the purpose of making the fabric fiber soft) -
originally compunds used to smooth out the surface of the hair and make it slick for
easier combing. Surfactants also have some slight cleaning abilities - especially if
used in larger quantities - you'll notice this when you use lots of conditioner on your
hair and it's almost producing a slight "foam".

This action of the surfactants is what allows you to use conditioner as a very mild
cleanser for hair. It takes quite a lot of it - at least a couple of tablespoons for my hair
- and you have to leave it on for a while to let the surfactants to their job of dissolving
oil and grime from the hair.

-- Source: Conditioner only washing artivle (http://www.hennaforhair.com/forum/messages/152.html)


Can conditioner only wash your hair?
YES. For some people it works. It's been washing mine for the last 1 1/2 years.

Will it leave greasyness?
It should never *leave* hair greasy. If it does, you're not rinsing enough OR it's just not for you. At first, however, during the transition period, you scalp will overproduce oil, making it look greasy.

Is only shampooing REALLY bad for your hair?(Gentle, solid, SLS free)
Absolutely not. Just try washing less often and use milder shampoos.

Is there a transition period?
I'm afraid so. For me, it was around 4 weeks, but it depends.

[mitabird]

Hello, I'm kinda new to (good) haircare and the LHC, so I was wondering how conditioner only works.
I've clarified my hair last night, and used a non-cone dish on my hair afterward.
Can conditioner only wash your hair?
Will it leave greasyness?
Is only shampooing REALLY bad for your hair?(Gentle, solid, SLS free)
Is there a transition period?

I can answer some of your questions based on my own experience.

Can conditioner only wash your hair?
Yes it can. As long as you scrub well enough and rinse well enough. Some leave the CO on for 5 min, others for an hour. You'd have to experiment to see what would work best for you.

Will it leave greasiness?
Not in my experience; however I've always had a dry scalp.

Is only shampooing REALLY bad for your hair?(Gentle, solid, SLS free)
Shampooing is not necessarily bad, but it can be drying. It made my hair dry and tangled and I don't use any at all. Some use a gentle poo once a week.

Is there a transition period?
There can be. Mine was two weeks. Sometimes it can be up to 6 weeks. You'd have to be a little patient.

I'm sure others will chime in with their thoughts as well. I hope you enjoy your journey toward healthier hair.

[Katurday]

Thank you very much for your assistance!
I'm still not sure if CO is for me, but you never know until you try, eh?
I'd appreciate any additional input of experiences, advice etc.
You guys are a miracle for my hair, I tell you.
:)

[Gilly]

I am loving it now that I have finally got the hang of it, I struggled for ages with it but once I started using my conditioner like shampoo and massaging it in well then rinsing well at the end of my shower its perfect!! :cheese:
I am currently using either MooGoo conditioner or Inecto coconut conditioner.

[chelly]

i've been bascially CO for 2 weeks now, as my hair gets used to it i've been shampooing just my scalp once every 3-4 washes. my hair is beautiful now compared to how it was a few weeks ago. I've also been snipping off my split ends and using evoo for about 3 days. its amazing how finding this forum and H4H has basically transformed my hair :O

I've been using dove deep conditioning for damaged hair conditioner, as far as i can tell there arent any cones in it and it leave my hair beautiful.

[beatricedivina]

I wash about once a week with Deva Low-Poo, and the rest of the week I "wash" with VO5 Kiwi Lime Squeeze. I got a HUGE bottle of Giovanni 50/50 at CostCo (local warehouse club) for $10.99, only to discover that it doesn't really work for me as a "wash" conditioner. Occasionally, I use the Organix Shea Butter conditioner, because my hair sometimes likes cones.

[themostsilly]

I just bought some Suave clarifying condish, its white, and oil and fragrance free. I checked the ingredients, and it looks like its cone, and protein free. Would this be okay to use for CO washing?
I wanted to try CO out since my hair gets greasy and I have to wash it often, I figured if I was able to stretch the time out between shampoos, I would be doing a great service for my hair. So my idea was to use CO on days when after my hair has been shampooed but is looking a little greasy on top. I'm hoping this will work out well, and I can improve some of my dryness and frizziness. And just make my hair over all happy.
Anyone out there with oily fine hair that CO's? Any special tricks or tips so that hair isn't left limp or greasy?

[intothemist1999]

Anyone out there with oily fine hair that CO's? Any special tricks or tips so that hair isn't left limp or greasy?


I've got oily, fine hair.

At the moment I CO every other day (more often if I feel like it), and once a week I use a SLS shampoo followed by conditioner on the ends. If I wait longer than a week to shampoo, I start to get the little "owies" on my scalp. Last week I used a non-SLS shampoo and that didn't cut it -- I still got the owies.

I'm using White Rain conditioner mostly, but I'm going to look for a moisturizing conditioner for the ends. I steer away from moisturizing conditioners on my scalp since they REALLY give me the owies.

So far this is working for me. It never occurred to me to "mix" the methods before, so I had stopped CO a couple of times because of scalp problems. I think it was AJoifulNoise who mentioned she shampoos weekly and since trying that it's working WONDERFULLY for me! :cheer:

[dorothea-brooke]

Hello all,

I've been CO'ing for about 8 months now, and it's been working great. Here's my routine, which I think is a bit strange, so thought I'd share it in case anyone wants to experiment!

Every day in which I wet my hair (which is about 4-5 days per week; the other days I just avoid getting water on it in the shower), I put a fairly small-by-CO-standards amount of Aveda Rosemary and Mint Condish in, scrub the scalp a bit with fingertips, then comb through to the ends. Then I do other shower things. When it's time to rinse -- here's the weird part -- I put just a tiny bit of Cetaphil in my palms and gently rub/wash the hairline area. Then rinse. (Maybe a tiny remnant of Cetaphil rinses through the length, but since it's coated in condish at that point I don't think it makes a difference.)

I started this routine back when I had bangs -- which thank heavens are growing out now :rolleyes: -- but got kind of addicted to it. I notice on days when I skip the Cetaphil that I'm just a tad too greasy. And since Cetaphil is super-mild I don't worry about it too much.

Oh, and once a week, a diluted wash with AO Lavender shampoo followed by oiling.

This routine seems to be working great for me!

cheers to all,
dorothea

[Faepirate]

I've discovered recently that it really isn't necessary for me to leave the conditioner on for longer than a few minutes :) For the past few washes I've lathered a couple of palmfuls of conditioner all over my head and length, stuck it in a shower cap, washed the rest of me, then removed the shower cap, lathered again with a little water, and rinsed before following with more moisturising conditioner on the ends and a chamomile tea rinse. So the conditioner sits on my entire head of hair and scalp for a maximum of 5 minutes and my hair is just as clean afterwards. :) I haven't noticed a difference at all. It just makes the whole process much quicker and easier!

[intothemist1999]

I've discovered recently that it really isn't necessary for me to leave the conditioner on for longer than a few minutes :) For the past few washes I've lathered a couple of palmfuls of conditioner all over my head and length, stuck it in a shower cap, washed the rest of me, then removed the shower cap, lathered again with a little water, and rinsed before following with more moisturising conditioner on the ends and a chamomile tea rinse. So the conditioner sits on my entire head of hair and scalp for a maximum of 5 minutes and my hair is just as clean afterwards. :) I haven't noticed a difference at all. It just makes the whole process much quicker and easier!


I forgot to mention that in my reply to themostsilly. I've heard that leaving it on longer helps it be less greasy.

I started to apply it to my head for a while before going in the shower, partly because I didn't have enough to do in the shower to kill time to have the conditioner on my head for any serious length of time....and I hated to fiddle about with the water running (our faucet is hellish to reset when you're IN the shower, once you turn it off). Lately I just forgot to prep my head before the shower, so like you, I have it on only a few minutes.

It's worked out fine! Maybe a combination of the type of conditioner and (in my case) the weekly shampooing.

[DrkAngel]

I've been using dove deep conditioning for damaged hair conditioner, as far as i can tell there arent any cones in it and it leave my hair beautiful.

If you mean this one (http://www.walgreens.com/store/product.jsp?CATID=304585&navAction=jump&navCount=1&id=prod1901684), it does contain cones. These are the ingredients:

Water - Aqua , Cetearyl Alcohol , Dimethiconol , Cetrimonium Chloride , Quaternium-18 , Fragrance - Parfum , C11-13 Isoparaffin , Propylene Glycol , Hydroxyethylcellulose , Poloxamer 217 , Quaternium-18 Bentonite , Meroxapol 311 , Disodium EDTA , Amodimethicone , TEA-Dodecylbenzenesulfonate , DMDM Hydantoin , C12-14 Sec-Pareth-5 , C12-14 Sec-Pareth-7 , Citric Acid , Methylchloroisothiazolinone , Methylisothiazolinone

Dimehiconol is supposed to be water soluble when mixed with Cetrimonium Chloride, so this cone should not build up. As for the amodimethicone, I am not sure of its solubility in this particular solution, but you can check the cones article (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=13) yourself and see that it could be both soluble and not soluble, depending on other iingredients present in the solution.

Blah blah, all this to say that you might want to watch out for buildup and either clarify as often as you need it or change the conditioner. The conditioner you CO with should be cone-free.

[Eirinn]

I've just tried CO with coffee and my hair felt soo good:p I guess that cofein has an ability of sealing in moisture

[KiwiLiz]

I CO mostly, I use Pantene Daily moisture renewal (which is the same as Smooth and Sleek, Deep fortifying and colour therapy, just look at the ingredients!). I shampoo once a week with Pantene clarifying shampoo.

I stopped using Pantene for a while because I heard it was "was full of silicone which are bad for your hair", my hair likes cones, it likes Pantene. I love Pantene :P

[Tap Dancer]

What are some of the best CO conditioners?
I have used VO5 Vanilla Mint Tea and it smells so good :D

I CO once or twice a week. I use VO5 Sun Kissed Raspberry. Mmm...! :inlove:

[Riot Crrl]

Watch out for the Pantene... silicones are not necessarily bad for your hair. Leaving them on there all the time and never cleaning them off at all is, though. If you are shampooing once a week then it'll be OK, but you have to lather your whole length and not just the roots, at least once in a while. I'm a former Pantene addict and it totally entrapped my hair without me realizing it at the time.

Anyway, I never left the CO on more than a few minutes in the shower. If I wear it outside the shower it's not a wash to me, it's more of a DT, lol. But I get my hair wet pretty much every day.

[QueenBea]

I was amazed this morning--I did a HEAVY oiling with a blend from Sally's (nothing amazing--soybean oil base I think with some "good stuff" in there; smells good and works fair).

Took out my french braid this morning and my hair was a grease slick, so I ALMOST shampoo-d. But I went ahead and did the CO, rubbed it on really well (gently, yes), left it in for five minutes, rinsed well--and the oil is GONE.

So it really is working well.

I went to Orlando last week and the water was so soft. CO did NOT work for me there; my hair was limp and every clip fell out all weekend. Our water is "moderately hard" here and I'm more used to it and the CO-ing is working better.

I'm trying to CO every day, then I'm planning on shampooing Saturdays or Sundays. Two weeks down more or less and so far, mostly good :)

Bea

[intothemist1999]

i've been bascially CO for 2 weeks now, as my hair gets used to it i've been shampooing just my scalp once every 3-4 washes. my hair is beautiful now compared to how it was a few weeks ago. I've also been snipping off my split ends and using evoo for about 3 days. its amazing how finding this forum and H4H has basically transformed my hair :O

I've been using dove deep conditioning for damaged hair conditioner, as far as i can tell there arent any cones in it and it leave my hair beautiful.


I'm loving my hair these days, too! :) It was looking so nice today I was hating to have to pull it into a 1/2 up for work :shrug:

I've been CO on and off since joining (almost a year ago!! Hard to believe) and now have settled on CO with a once-a-week shampoo with a SLS shampoo. It's PERFECT!

I never paid much attention to my hair beside styling when it was shorter. As it's getting longer, it's in better and better condition! You can actually see how the newest hair (closest to my head) is in much better condition than the length, and that portion is getting longer as my hair gets longer, so I know it's due to what I'm doing differently now. The length isn't in too bad condition either, and now that I'm doing half-ups and ponytails more often (for work) frizz doesn't seem to be much of an issue either. I'm not combing or brushing any more, either...that probably helps alot.

ETA: I'm using "European Formula" by Belvedere on most of the hair, with a blend of Desert Essence's Red Grape conditioner mixed with another very basic but oil-based unscented conditioner (can't remember the name and i have to dash so will check it later) for the ends.

[Neoma]

I CO'ed for a while when I first joined LHC about three years ago. I liked it a lot much of the time, but from time to time, I would get a frizzy halo. I was using V05 Blueberry (which I don't think you can get anymore) or V05 Strawberry (my fav).

I am also a failed shampoo bar user. I love some things about shampoo bars, but the results are inconsistent for me. I can have a good hair day, then the next day I'll have "barbed wire" crown and straw length.

So, I'm thinking about trying CO'ing again. I have about half a bottle of KLS. I also have a bunch of bottles of "natural" conditioners like AO, Giovanni and NG. And I have a big bottle of Pantene Smooth & Sleek.

I plan on using the Kiwi Lime Squeeze for the first conditioner, then one of the natural conditioners as the second.

Thoughts?

Oh... I have baby fine, almost waist-length hair.

[Lamb]

I have also decided to go back to CO, after trying a bazillion other methods, including shampoo bars. CO was the only method that gave me consistently good results after I first tried it in August 2007. I was scared by a massive Fall shedding that coincided with the early weeks of my new routine, and I thought CO contributed to the shedding - but I had a similar shedding experience in the spring, and I wasn't COing then.
So, back to CO for me. Strictly cone-free, preferably not every day. I am planning to CO every other day with a water only rinse in between, and work from there - my ultimate goal is COing twice a week, with water rinses on the off-days.

[RavennaNight]

I've been doing CO for about a week and a half now, and I've been using VO5
Freesia. My hair is responding suprisingly well and I have had less frizz than I'm supposed to this time of year. I didn't think it would be, but I also find the conditioner quite cleansing. I coconut oiled & braided yesterday and CO'd this morning and my hair got clean! I guess its the alcohol in the conditioner? Its one of the first ingredients in there... But nonetheless, I find my hair is behaving better and is happier with this method. I think its too soon to tell if its always going to work for me, but I guess I'll find out sooner or later. I haven't felt my hair or scalp particularly requesting shampoo yet.

[Nicole.Amina]

I'm a fan of Trader Joe's conditioner. Anyone else?

[intothemist1999]

I guess its the alcohol in the conditioner? Its one of the first ingredients in there... .


Eeks, conditioner with alcohol as one of the first ingredients?! That sounds shocking to me! Granted, I've never actually CHECKED to see if/where alcohol occurs in my conditioners.

[mitabird]

I'm a fan of Trader Joe's conditioner. Anyone else?

I love Trader Joe's conditioners. I usually use them as a 2nd conditioner since it's too heavy for me to use to CO with. I like the Nourish slightly better than the Refresh.

[Riot Crrl]

Eeks, conditioner with alcohol as one of the first ingredients?! That sounds shocking to me! Granted, I've never actually CHECKED to see if/where alcohol occurs in my conditioners.

Not all alcohols are bad. The fatty ones act as emollients. There are many kinds of alcohols used in hair ingredients, but two of the most common fatty ones are cetyl and stearyl. Isoprophyl (along with others) is drying and best to avoid.

[whiteisle]

I'm trying CO for the first time too. This is day 5 for me and it seems to be doing well, however, I haven't found the "right" conditioner for me yet. I've tried the VO5 Kiwi Lime, but surprisingly, my hair felt very dry afterwards. Nature's Gate Aloe works pretty well and leaves my hair very soft and silky feeling but heavy by the end of the day. I haven't tried the VO5 Freesia yet, but that's next on my agenda. I'm COing every day, expect today - I did a WO wash and then followed that with a light application of Nature's Gate conditioner for a few minutes. I'm thinking I might also do a clarifying shampoo wash tomorrow since I never did any kind of clarifying before starting CO.......I dunno........sigh....I'll think about that tomorrow!:D

[Nicole.Amina]

I love Trader Joe's conditioners. I usually use them as a 2nd conditioner since it's too heavy for me to use to CO with. I like the Nourish slightly better than the Refresh.

I actually find it not heavy enough lol. But it's the heaviest (and cheapest) cone-free conditioner I've been able to find. What do you use as your 1st conditioner?

[mitabird]

I actually find it not heavy enough lol. But it's the heaviest (and cheapest) cone-free conditioner I've been able to find. What do you use as your 1st conditioner?

I use either Burt Bee's Grapefruit & Sugar Beet, VO5 Kiwi Lime Squeeze or Sun Kissed Raspberry. I use Devacurl's No Poo on my length when I do my weekly full CO wash.

[Neoma]

Today was Day 1 of my CO'ing experiment. I CO'ed with a handful of KLS, let it sit for a few minutes while I completed my showerly duties, then rinsed well. Then I applied some Giovanni TTTT and rinsed it out.

No tangles -- gotta love it!

I was totally amazed that I was able to make a wrapped bun. I was afraid that my hair would be too slippery to make a secure bun, but my fears were unfounded. A number of strands around my face escaped, but that happens no matter what cleansing method I use.

I stopped at the dollar store and bought four bottles of V05 Strawberries & Cream. Be still my heart! This is my all-time favorite V05 "flavor," and I can rarely find it.

I'm not sure that I need to follow up with a second conditioner, but I have a ton of "natural" conditioners, and I want to use them up. Extra moisture can't hurt, anyway.

[intothemist1999]

Will it leave greasyness?
It should never *leave* hair greasy. If it does, you're not rinsing enough OR it's just not for you. At first, however, during the transition period, you scalp will overproduce oil, making it look greasy..


I'd like to add:

OR, you aren't using a suitable conditioner and may have to experiment with others.

[LynnM]

Maybe it's the nails that are the problem - I have quite long nails but I am very careful NEVER to scrub my scalp with them. You need to use the pads of your fingers and go firmly but gently and slowly. If you use your nails you're probably damaging the strands and your scalp. The pads of your fingers will be much more effective at loosening the dirt IMHO.

Try that, see how it goes. You might also need to rethink your choice of CO wash conditioner.

I don't know. I use my nails to help loosen the gunk, because I am prone to a LOT of scalp gunk. If I don't "scritch" my head EVERY time I wash, I get bad results and a greasy head. I usually scratch gently to remove gunk (which is particularly bad in certain parts of my scalp), and then massage my head all-over - including at the hairline, by my ears, in the back, etc. - in order to remove the gunk that builds up naturally. I can't shampoo the scalp because then my ends get too dry.... maybe this is more what you might be experiencing?

I had to switch to a very light (for me) conditioner, too - V05 SKR or another V05 conditioner. Clarifying conditioners never worked for my hair. Cones cause more gunkiness.

So I wet the hair, pour on tons of conditioner, scratch/massage for at least 5 minutes, let that sit for 5 minutes at least, rinse it out completely, add more of the same conditioner and massage it into my scalp and hair, let sit for 5 minutes, then rinse out. I usually put in a leave-in, too - a teeny bit of unrefined shea butter or even some Potion 9.

These are the only things that make CO washing work for my hair. I get super-shiny, manageable, soft hair and a clean scalp when I do the scratch/massage/light conditioner method.

[LynnM]

I stopped at the dollar store and bought four bottles of V05 Strawberries & Cream. Be still my heart! This is my all-time favorite V05 "flavor," and I can rarely find it. .

Does anyone else have a hard time finding V05 conditioners, especially the non-protein ones like SKR and Strawberries and Cream? Wally-World never has them anymore (they used to!), and the local grocery stores in my area only rarely do (Marsh & Kroger here in Indiana). My DH gets irritated when I buy 6 bottles at a time ("We still have some at home!") but I go through at least 2 bottles a month, and I never know when I'll find more.

Do you have more luck with the dollar stores?

What about online stores??

Anyone else experiencing this?

[mitabird]

Do you have more luck with the dollar stores? What about online stores?? Anyone else experiencing this?

I usually find them in the dollar store and my supermarket. I rarely find them in Walmart or Target.

[soleluna]

do any of you have problems with conditioners containing cethrimonium cloride?

[Neoma]

Reporting back...

Today was Day 4 of my new CO'ing routine. It's working beautifully for me.

:flower:

[Alaskanheart]

After a few months of MM I am back to CO with my fave Natures Gate Henna Condish. Im in love all over again.

[savi]

do any of you have problems with conditioners containing cethrimonium cloride?
No problems here, couple of my favorites contain it and pretty high on the inci list too.

[soleluna]

No problems here, couple of my favorites contain it and pretty high on the inci list too.

thanks. A couple of friends on the Italian forum said they found hair falling more when they used products with it.

[toodramatik]

I did CO for a few months, but one day I just realized I had so much build up. my hair was literally sticking to my head. icky.

[iluvmy67cuda]

I try to CO as much as possible, but if i dont use my dandruff shampoo it gets really flaky. Can you guys tell me some good natural dandruff recipes i can try? that way i can quit the shampoo because its just plain bad LOL. Thanks alot.

[Sissilonghair]

Since I joined this forum I started to CO :love:,now I can't do without it.I use cone free conditioner and a cone one for my ends only ,which needs to be moisturized.I can tell you my hair improoved a lot following this routine . I CO every other day.I used to mild shampoo every week, but I skip that part now because it is the same, so I rather not using any :D

[Sissilonghair]

I try to CO as much as possible, but if i dont use my dandruff shampoo it gets really flaky. Can you guys tell me some good natural dandruff recipes i can try? that way i can quit the shampoo because its just plain bad LOL. Thanks alot.
Sorry for not answering to your question,
I don't have this problem, but I read on the forum that you can use sugar in your conditioner as a scrub for your scalp or ACV rinse after washing your hair,hope I helped:)

[SpiralingWaves]

I try to CO as much as possible, but if i dont use my dandruff shampoo it gets really flaky. Can you guys tell me some good natural dandruff recipes i can try? that way i can quit the shampoo because its just plain bad LOL. Thanks alot.

You could try an apple cider vinegar & water rinse or lemon juice and water rinse. Concentrate the rinse on the scalp and leave it on for a little while before rinsing it off.

[hurricane_gia]

I first tried CO last year, but had lank, greasy hair after the first two COs. I ended up settling on a routine of C-COW-C with about a 1:10 ration of shampoo to conditioner in the COW part.

Now, I realize that I never read the part about leaving the conditioner on the hair for several minutes; I was just rinsing it off immediately. I think I'll try it all again, leaving it on the hair longer. I'll let ya'll know how it goes.

[AJoifulNoise]

I did CO for a few months, but one day I just realized I had so much build up. my hair was literally sticking to my head. icky.

That happened to me, too. That's why I shampoo once a week with a sulfate shampoo.

[brixxgirl16]

So I've heard a lot about the benefits of cone-free products, but how can you tell if they're really cone-free? Are cone-free conditioners easy to find?

[Poolsoflaughter]

I prefer cone-free conditioners...not just because my hair likes it better, but because many tend to be cheaper. ;) Normally you can tell if a conditioner or other product has cones in it when you look at the ingredient list, and many names end in 'one for instance: Methylanemonesilicatechloryllone... (I made that one up) Stuff like White Rain, and V05 are great to use for COing. I hope that helps. :)

[intothemist1999]

Ok, once again I just cannot find the cone-free conditioner list (it was so easy in the old forum). I've done searches all over the board and no luck.

Can anyone help? Pleeeease! :)

[nicolina]

Hi!

I'm new around here, I've been Conditioner Only for one week now (and so far my hair loves it!). I was wondering - if you want to do a deep-oiling treatment on your hair, how do you get it out without using shampoo?

Thanks
Nicolina

[jeno]

I started CO in September 2007 and I have used schampoo just once since then! I had some build-up when I used conditioner with proteins, so I had to wash with schampoo.

I love CO! My hair is soft and well moisturized now.

[SolSara]

Nicolina: You can wash oil out with condish. :) It seems that it's a bit different from hair to hair and with different oils, but it is possible. I can do a heavy overnight oiling with EVOO and still wash it all out in one go if I use a really light condish (without oil in it.) But some people have said they needed a few washes before it all went out. Try using a light oil and just a bit of it the first time and then increase it so you can find out what your hair/condish can manage. :)

[nicolina]

Thanks SolSara! I'll give it a go...

[Dulci]

For those of you looking for the cone-free conditioner list, I found the old thread (http://archive.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=46580) in the archives. It may need updating, I don't know. HTH! :)

[intothemist1999]

For those of you looking for the cone-free conditioner list, I found the old thread (http://archive.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=46580) in the archives. It may need updating, I don't know. HTH! :)


Thank you, Dulci! I tried looking in the articles, too, but no luck. Thanks for the link! :)


.

[missy60]

Does anyone else have a hard time finding V05 conditioners, especially the non-protein ones like SKR and Strawberries and Cream? Wally-World never has them anymore (they used to!), and the local grocery stores in my area only rarely do (Marsh & Kroger here in Indiana). My DH gets irritated when I buy 6 bottles at a time ("We still have some at home!") but I go through at least 2 bottles a month, and I never know when I'll find more.

Do you have more luck with the dollar stores?

What about online stores??

Anyone else experiencing this?

I think VO5 Strawberry and Cream has protein in it if that important to you. I think its soy protein.

[puredoxyk]

Well, I've been CO-ing for about three weeks now. I love it!

I'm using Mane and Tail conditioner -- it's light, and it works on my hair, and I happened to have it laying around, heh -- and as long as I make sure to scrub my scalp and rinse really well, it's been magic. My hair is happier than it ever was with shampoo & conditioner!

At the moment, I'm COing every other day (which is how often I used to S&C) and clarifying once a week. Last week I used pure castille soap for this (my husband uses it on his dreadlocks, because you can't have oils or fragrances or anything on dreadlocks), and that seems to have worked great; since it's cheap and it only takes a teeny bit to get me squeeeeky clean, I may stick with that.

Yay for CO!

[Vanille]

Hi, all. I first discovered CO washing in November 2007 when I found this forum. It gave me wonderful hair for a while, then I started noticing buildup and — after trying a "clarifying" conditioner, etc. — I started to shampoo now and then, and eventually went back to a routine of shampooing and conditioning.

Now, I'm trying it again to see if I can fine-tune a method that gives me consistently good results. I don't think we should consider CO washing a "failure" if we have to intersperse it with an occasional shampooing. If we're consistently having improved hair texture, etc. with CO and just need to clean off the buildup now and then, it's overall a gain in quality of hair.

Anyway, I'm experimenting with different ways of applying it, and when I have something helpful to share with the group I will be sure to do so. I just did a second CO wash (first one was four days ago) this evening, and am letting my hair hang loose while drying to see how the texture turns out this time.

One thing I noticed both then and now is, for some reason my hair is noticeably wavier after a CO wash. I wonder if there is somehow more bounce or resiliency in each individual hair, allowing it to "spring up" to wave despite the weight of the hair (instead of being pulled straight) when washing with conditioner only. Anyway, it's a fun side effect. :)

[rymorg2]

I usually put in a leave-in, too - a teeny bit of unrefined shea butter or even some Potion 9.


Wow you can use Potion 9 with all those cones in it? I use shea butter. Just about every day. I love it. :D

[rymorg2]

One thing I noticed both then and now is, for some reason my hair is noticeably wavier after a CO wash. I wonder if there is somehow more bounce or resiliency in each individual hair, allowing it to "spring up" to wave despite the weight of the hair (instead of being pulled straight) when washing with conditioner only. Anyway, it's a fun side effect. :)

The reason for this is that the cones tend to weigh down hair and pull out wave. So it's your natural texture shining through. It's a LOVELY side effect, and one of the reasons I decided to go no cone and CO. :D

[rymorg2]

I started CO in November of '06, but it made my hair greasy, and I got a ton of buildup and my dandruff was worse. So I went back to S & C for awhile, then switched to CWC. My hair liked it. Now that I have a handle on the ingredients that I have issues with and realize how fine my hair is (OY) even though I have so much of it, I've gone back to CO. I do rotate though....I CO two days and on the third day S & C with a non cone, non sulfate shampoo that's soap based, following with a vinegar rinse. I'm still tweaking though. :D

[fizbobunny]

Hi. I have been lurking in this thread for a few days. I have a few basic questions. I have decided to try CO. The last time I shampoo'd was Tuesday night. Right now I have short hair, but plan on growing it out. I have been keeping it short for almost 2 years now. I cut it short when I was living in an RV because there was simply no room to wash longer hair, and then kept it short because it was easy with a new born. (my son is now 1 yo) CO intrigues me because I have found that if I slather my hair with conditioner after shampooing it looks so much better the next day and is much more manageable.

1. What does SLS mean?

2. What does C-COW-C stand for?

3. Can someone give me step by step directions for the CO method (especially about the first condish and then the second)?

4. Is it common to experience more greasiness the first week or so of CO?

[Riot Crrl]

Hi. I have been lurking in this thread for a few days. I have a few basic questions. I have decided to try CO. The last time I shampoo'd was Tuesday night. Right now I have short hair, but plan on growing it out. I have been keeping it short for almost 2 years now. I cut it short when I was living in an RV because there was simply no room to wash longer hair, and then kept it short because it was easy with a new born. (my son is now 1 yo) CO intrigues me because I have found that if I slather my hair with conditioner after shampooing it looks so much better the next day and is much more manageable.

1. What does SLS mean?

2. What does C-COW-C stand for?

3. Can someone give me step by step directions for the CO method (especially about the first condish and then the second)?

4. Is it common to experience more greasiness the first week or so of CO?

1. Sodium Lauryl Sulfate, considered to be the harshest (and also most commonly found) of sulfates. Check your dish soap, it's probably the first ingredient. It's cheap and creates miles of lathery bubbles, so manufacturers love it. It's not necessary to clean hair, which brings us to CO.

2. I'm sorry to say I don't know. Conditioner-something-conditioner? Someone should be along who can answer, I reckon.

3. There are two schools of thought on this. The Long Hair Community way, and the Curly Girl way. The LHC way involves putting on conditioner, letting it sit a long time like at least 30 minutes, then rinsing. I do the CG way. Wet my hair, glob conditioner onto my scalp, scrub as if shampooing, rinse. Then I do condition the length afterwards, often with a richer conditioner than what I used to "shampoo" with. The physical routine is pretty much identical to what I would do if I was using shampoo and conditioner, except that I have replaced the shampoo with conditioner.

4. I didn't have a transition period, and I know many other people didn't, but many people do. When this happens I think that basically the oil glands are in the habit of trying to prepare themselves for deluges of SLS and the like (and thus overproducing), and it takes them a while to figure out they don't have to worry about it anymore.

[intothemist1999]

2. What does C-COW-C stand for?





Not sure about the COW :bull: :) Do you mean C-W-C? That's for Condition-Wash-Condition, where you add conditioner to the ends , leave it on then add shampoo (=wash) to the head (the conditioner helps protect the ends from the shampoo). Then you rinse it all off and add the conditioner at the end, as one normally would.

For the record, if you want to add a second shampooing, what you do is rinse the shampoo from the head, while keeping the ends out of the way, then add the second application of shampoo, rinse it all off, and follow up with the final application of conditioner.

In my case, for a CWC I divide my hair over each shoulder when I'm putting on the conditioner....then if I'm going to do a second shampooing I hold each of the ends out to the sides while rinsing the first shampoo from my head. I imagine it's easiest to do in a shower.

[AJoifulNoise]

2. What does C-COW-C stand for?

I think that this article (http://archive.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=19783) from the old forums might be useful. Hope that helps!

[harley mama]

I have been using CO ever since found LHC. My hair loves it.
My favorite conditioner is VO5 Tea Therapy Vanilla Mint. I also like the
chamomile in the same line.

[Sapphire'sWings]

C-COW-C is something AnaisSatin came up with. The cow part involves mixing shampoo, conditioner, and I think water. I don't know all the details though. It is good for people who want a gentle method, but can't CO.

ETA: Here's the link to the C-COW-C instructions. :)

http://anaissatin.livejournal.com/6209.html

ETA again: AJoifulNoise beat me to it! ;)

[Kirin]

I have a question. recently CO'ing after a travel bad experience with dead dry hair....... i've noticed that my scalp sweats MORE when I CO.

Anyone else have this problem?

[intothemist1999]

I have a question. recently CO'ing after a travel bad experience with dead dry hair....... i've noticed that my scalp sweats MORE when I CO.

Anyone else have this problem?



I tend to have a sweaty head most of the time, alas. I don't think it's worse since switching to CO.

I find it's worse if I use a heavy conditioner. Usually I use White Rain or Belvedere's European Formula. A little while back I tried Down Under Natural's Berry Kicks and my hair felt way heavier and I also sweated more.



.

[LuXious]

So with CO, is there little concern for how natural the product is? Do you need to use a drugstore line because of the chemicals-- because they have cleaning power? If I used an all-natural co, I imagine it would end up oily instead of cleaner. ???

[fizbobunny]

Thanks so much for the links and help.

Things finally clicked for me this weekend. I finally understand the two step CO process.

Friday I made a shopping list based on things I have read or seen on LHC. I bought Suave clarifying conditioner, a BBB, a shower cap and a detangler comb. I also bought some baking soda and apple cider vinegar.

I used the baking soda like the baby powder friday night. I sprinkled it on my head and brushed it through. (I was on the couch playing GTA with Cory and wanted to do something with my new stuff.) The next morning I showered. I used the clarifying conditioner as the first conditioner. I worked it through and massaged my scalp. Then put the shower cap on and did everything else I could, then I rinsed. Then I used my heavy conditioner (the one I was using before) but just on the ends. I left shortly after for my girls day out, and just let my hair air dry while I was driving. My hair looked fabulous. Even SIL said it looked and felt great. My hair ends flipped under the way I like them too. On both sides too (usually only one side will cooperate), without styling or constantly brushing them while they were drying.

Sunday I used poo. I took a small amount and mixed it with the clarifying poo in a cup, but I think the combo was overdrying. Next time I will mix the poo with my heavy conditioner. I am also planning on trying to go two weeks with no poo. I was so greasy thursday and friday that I felt like I had to poo. Now that I have the grease under control I think I can go two weeks.

As for the detangler comb, I think that will not come in handy till my hair is longer.

The clarifying conditioner does such a good job of cleaning that I sorta feel like I'm cheating by using it. But no matter what it makes a great transitional conditioner, so I'm going to finish out the bottle no matter what.

[LuXious]

I COed for the first time today. My hair feels heavy and oily. Soft and healthy and pretty clean, but the heavy and oily part is uncomfortable. I used Suave Naturals coconut. Don't think I rinsed long enough. Also, I had done a cinnamon/honey/conditioner/evoo soak the day before yesterday and don't believe the shampoo got it all when I washed it out. Maybe a vinegar rinse tomorrow morning? Or should i co again but better and then follow with an acv rinse?

[LuXious]

How long is your hair, fizbobunny?

[fizbobunny]

How long is your hair, fizbobunny?
It's shorter than my chin. I have been keeping it short for a long while now. I chopped it all off when I moved into our FEMA trailer, and have just kept it short since then (even though I live in a house now). I do plan on growing it out.


As for your heavy and oily feeling, I had that for the first week. I find that using a lighter conditioner and brushing with a boar bristle brush before getting in the shower really helps. Hang in there, because once you get past the adjustment period it is so worth it.

[Aisha25]

Was wondering..Will a CO wash out honey or anyother DTs? Or will you have to use shampoo for that??

[rhosyn_du]

Was wondering..Will a CO wash out honey or anyother DTs? Or will you have to use shampoo for that??

It will depend on the particular DT and which conditioner you're using. I'd guess honey is a pretty solid yes regardless of conditioner, though, since honey will (eventually) wash out with just water. And I've actually had a better success rate washing out heavy oilings with CO than I ever did with shampoo.

[Aisha25]

It will depend on the particular DT and which conditioner you're using. I'd guess honey is a pretty solid yes regardless of conditioner, though, since honey will (eventually) wash out with just water. And I've actually had a better success rate washing out heavy oilings with CO than I ever did with shampoo.
Thank you Rhosyn:flower:

[LuXious]

It's shorter than my chin. I have been keeping it short for a long while now. I chopped it all off when I moved into our FEMA trailer, and have just kept it short since then (even though I live in a house now). I do plan on growing it out.


Thanks for the advice. I have a boar bristle brush, so I'll give it a try.

Maybe I shouldn't ask this, but why did you cut your hair upon moving into the FEMA trailer? Was it an emotional response or something else?

[fizbobunny]

Maybe I shouldn't ask this, but why did you cut your hair upon moving into the FEMA trailer? Was it an emotional response or something else?

It's okay, I don't mind talking about that kind of stuff. I cut it all off because there simply was not enough room or hot water to wash it. I barely could fit my body in the shower, and I could barely get my body washed before the hot water ran out.

Here's a picture of me in the tub. My hair in this picture is actually my inspiration. I want it about this long and dark again.
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b149/fizbobunny/DSC01466-1.jpg

[MoonCreature]

I had an interesting experiment last weekend, we were at a friends summerplace that lacks running water, so the what that we washed ourself with had to be boiled (=there wasn't much warm water to wash with because we didn't want to boil huge amounts). Anyway, I managed to CO and wash myself with only two buckets (20 liters) of water :cheese:
I just put the conditioner in my dry hair, let it set for about 10 minutes, added a bit of water, worked it through, added a bit more etc untill the conditioner didn't feel thick anymore and my hair was all wet. I let it be for about 5 minutes, then dunked my hair in a bucket of water (about half the water amount that I used), rinsed and massaged the scalp. I squeezed out the exess water and added a bit of conditioner to the ends, stood up and poured the other half of water over the hair and me about a litre at a time.
The water itself wasn't all that good, it was well-water that hadn't been cleaned at all. It sure wasn't the best CO-wash I've done, but it was better than the poor attempts I made at first, when using as much clean water as I wanted :lol:

[Riot Crrl]

It will depend on the particular DT and which conditioner you're using. I'd guess honey is a pretty solid yes regardless of conditioner, though, since honey will (eventually) wash out with just water. And I've actually had a better success rate washing out heavy oilings with CO than I ever did with shampoo.

Oh! Maybe that's what it is. I keep saying "Sure, I can wash out half a cup of olive oil easy." And then people think I'm nuts.

[rapunzhell13]

Does it have to be a cheap conditioner? I'm wondering if expensive ones are too heavy. I'm a CO n00b. :o

[Riot Crrl]

Does it have to be a cheap conditioner? I'm wondering if expensive ones are too heavy. I'm a CO n00b. :o

It doesn't HAVE to be, but the expensive ones are often heavier. Plus, we are generally burning through quite a bit of conditioner and the economy is bad.

[rapunzhell13]

It doesn't HAVE to be, but the expensive ones are often heavier. Plus, we are generally burning through quite a bit of conditioner and the economy is bad.

Thanks for replying. :)

[fizbobunny]

Does it have to be a cheap conditioner? I'm wondering if expensive ones are too heavy. I'm a CO n00b. :o

I think it depends on if you want to do cones or no cones. From the little bit of looking around I did the more expensive conditioners had cones and the cheap ones didn't.

[bgarrison]

I'd like to try this but need a conditioner without fragrance or parabens. Any suggestions?

Thanks!

[Kirin]

Cure care conditioner at sally's beauty supply.

[bgarrison]

thanks! i'll look for it today. :)

[fizbobunny]

Any advice on limp hair? I have been experiencing limp hair all week. The first week my hair had so much body and looked so fab everyday, but now, not so much.

[Riot Crrl]

I'd like to try this but need a conditioner without fragrance or parabens. Any suggestions?

Thanks!

If you have Whole Foods there is also 365 Everyday Value. There are a variety of scents but one is unscented.


Any advice on limp hair? I have been experiencing limp hair all week. The first week my hair had so much body and looked so fab everyday, but now, not so much.

Maybe overconditioning? You could try a vinegar rinse.

[brixxgirl16]

I have been CO-ing for about a year off and on, and I like not using such harsh products on my hair. It is time-consuming, though (at least for me) with 15-20 minutes of 'sitting' time, plus lots of rinsing. Right now this is not really a problem; I just sit in the bath while I wait on my hair to get clean.
I'm a bit worried about keeping it up when I go to college, though, because of small shared bathrooms and/or community showers.

:confused: How do you fit CO-ing into your everyday routine (as in, not setting aside an hour just to wash your hair?) Is it possible to continue while I'm at college? help!
:D:D:D

[fizbobunny]

Maybe overconditioning? You could try a vinegar rinse.

Thanks! I tried this last night and it worked great.


How do you fit CO-ing into your everyday routine (as in, not setting aside an hour just to wash your hair?) Is it possible to continue while I'm at college? help!

I take 30 minute showers. As soon as I get in I wet my hair down really good. Then I put it up in a cap. Then I clean my face, shave my legs, etc, and I even brush my teeth. When I am done everything else I need to do I rinse really good. Last thing before I get out I turn the water on all the way cold.

I think you will be able to keep up in college. I have a one year old and a tight schedule and am able to find time to do it.

Although it may be easier for me because I still have short hair. Maybe you could just deep condition and let it sit on just the scalp area, and only do a thorough cleaning once a week.

[brixxgirl16]

Thanks! I tried this last night and it worked great.



I take 30 minute showers. As soon as I get in I wet my hair down really good. Then I put it up in a cap. Then I clean my face, shave my legs, etc, and I even brush my teeth. When I am done everything else I need to do I rinse really good. Last thing before I get out I turn the water on all the way cold.

I think you will be able to keep up in college. I have a one year old and a tight schedule and am able to find time to do it.

Although it may be easier for me because I still have short hair. Maybe you could just deep condition and let it sit on just the scalp area, and only do a thorough cleaning once a week.


Thanks! I am also trying to reduce washing intervals...

So your hair gets to 'sit' with the conditioner for about 20 minutes, even when you take a shower? This could be key to the continuation of my CO journey. Yay! :D

[fizbobunny]

brixxgirl16 ~ Good luck in College! Just keep in mind you are there to make a better future for yourself, so don't party too hard. But don't keep your nose in a book the whole time either, allow yourself a little time to cut loose and have fun. :D

[brixxgirl16]

brixxgirl16 ~ Good luck in College! Just keep in mind you are there to make a better future for yourself, so don't party too hard. But don't keep your nose in a book the whole time either, allow yourself a little time to cut loose and have fun. :D

haha thank you! I'm going to a Christian college, though, and I'm not a partier (at all), so I'll probably need the "cut loose" advice most of all!

:D

[FrannyG]

I have been CO-ing for about a year off and on, and I like not using such harsh products on my hair. It is time-consuming, though (at least for me) with 15-20 minutes of 'sitting' time, plus lots of rinsing. Right now this is not really a problem; I just sit in the bath while I wait on my hair to get clean.
I'm a bit worried about keeping it up when I go to college, though, because of small shared bathrooms and/or community showers.

:confused: How do you fit CO-ing into your everyday routine (as in, not setting aside an hour just to wash your hair?) Is it possible to continue while I'm at college? help!
:D:D:D

Ooooh, college! :) I don't set aside anything like an hour to wash my hair. I don't even worry about the conditioner soaking for 15 to 20 minutes. I get in the shower, wet my hair thoroughly, and then slather on the conditioner. I make a bun and put it on top of my head fastened with a plastic octopus clip. I don't use a shower cap, but I've had a lot of practise keeping my head out of the water during a shower.

Then I do my other showerly duties. When I'm finished with that, I rinse out my hair. That length of time seems to be long enough for the conditioner to soak. It was long enough when my hair was at its longest, 29 inches, as well. I then rinse for a little more than 3 minutes or so. That's the longest amount of time I spend on any one thing in the shower.

I can be in and out of the shower in about 15 minutes or so, sometimes less.

I've been COing exclusively for two years now.

Hope that helps.

[Riot Crrl]

Thanks! I tried this last night and it worked great.

Awesome!


I can be in and out of the shower in about 15 minutes or so, sometimes less.

Yeah me too. I don't do it exactly the same as you, but I also do the "no long soak" style.

[intothemist1999]

I have been CO-ing for about a year off and on, and I like not using such harsh products on my hair. It is time-consuming, though (at least for me) with 15-20 minutes of 'sitting' time, plus lots of rinsing. Right now this is not really a problem; I just sit in the bath while I wait on my hair to get clean.
I'm a bit worried about keeping it up when I go to college, though, because of small shared bathrooms and/or community showers.

:confused: How do you fit CO-ing into your everyday routine (as in, not setting aside an hour just to wash your hair?) Is it possible to continue while I'm at college? help!
:D:D:D



I find that depending on the the conditioner I can spend less time with it sitting on my hair.

Now, I have a couple that I can put on when I set into the shower, and it's ready to rinse 5-10 minutes later. When I used to have it sit a long time, I would usually apply it to damp or dry hair, wrap in a plastic bag, then rinse it out when I had the shower.

[bgarrison]

i've been trying this for a few weeks and have some questions.

how long do you stick with one conditioner before you try a different one? is it readily apparent if it's no good for you or do you give it a few tries to know for certain?

i'm still not clear on cones/proteins/ moisturizers....

am i correct--

people are avoiding cones because they feel all a cone does is coat the shaft and hide damage as well as prevent moisture from getting in?

i've been reading the boards but i'm not clear yet why some people avoid proteins. help?

i'm not sure what constitutes a moisturizing conditioner.... it seems many i've looked at contain proteins.....

i've tried AVO5 kiwi and the tea mint, i think it's called-- they're "clarifying" and both seem too drying for my hair. i've tried whole foods 365 and it also seems too drying. my hair loses it's wave and feels crunchy at the roots.

my scalp's been a little wonky, too so i think i need moisture i'm not sure. i've oiled my scalp overnight with jojoba which was great, but then what moisturizing cream rinse can i use to clean it? i tried organix, but that made my scalp break out.

i like this method, but still haven't found the right product. any suggestions? TY!!

bg

[janaana]

I’d like to try this method as I have quite dry hair and I’m sure the shampoo can’t be helping.

I currently wash my hair once a week and even then I only need to clean it to remove pollution & dirt from daily travelling to and working in a city rather than to get rid of oiliness. From what I’ve read, most people seem to be washing this way much more regularly. If I try it, should I still stick to weekly washes or is it better to do it more often for an effective result?

[Faepirate]

Something I noticed recently about CO washing (or any washing, maybe... I get the same problem with shampoo sometimes)

I thought for a long time that CO wasn't getting my hair properly clean. I've figured out that it might just be that I'm not being thorough enough when washing -

My hair is really super dense at the back (that's where all the thickness is - wish I had a more even spread across my head!) and no matter how much conditioner I pile on I can't seem to get my hair properly clean (i.e. without any icky-feeling bits hidden in the hair) unless I wash in two layers. I do the top layer of hair, scrubbing as much through the hair as I can, and then I scoop up the hair as if I were doing a half-up and let it hang it out of the way somewhere while I put more conditioner on the hair closer to the scalp. I don't leave the conditioner on more than a few minutes because the length of time doesn't seem to make a difference to my hair these days. THIS seems to actually get it clean! So I'm keeping my fingers crossed that this continues to clean my hair efficiently...

So if anyone is like me and having trouble getting their hair clean and it's very dense and thick like mine, maybe washing in two layers is the answer. :) And not too much effort really.

[savi]

I’d like to try this method as I have quite dry hair and I’m sure the shampoo can’t be helping.

I currently wash my hair once a week and even then I only need to clean it to remove pollution & dirt from daily travelling to and working in a city rather than to get rid of oiliness. From what I’ve read, most people seem to be washing this way much more regularly. If I try it, should I still stick to weekly washes or is it better to do it more often for an effective result?
I think starting off with weekly washes seems like a good idea, and then changing the routine if your hair needs to be washed more often. I CO twice a weekly simply because my hair gets dirty in that time, I think that's the reason why some of us CO more often - not to moisturize, but to clean. But you can always use a heavier/richer conditioner on the ends while COing to give them more misture. HTH.

[bgarrison]

I noticed this when I did mine last night. I put on what seemed like gobs of cream rinse, but underneath layers were pretty dry. I had to make a conscious effort to feel all the way through, lift and apply more, as you've said. It's still drying, so I'm not sure what it's going to look like today. The scalp at least does not feel "crunchy" thank goodness. Not yet, at least!

My hair is really dry too, which is why I'm hoping some one has some good ideas for a moisturizing CR.

[Riot Crrl]

people are avoiding cones because they feel all a cone does is coat the shaft and hide damage as well as prevent moisture from getting in?

It's also important if you are really doing conditioner only, because some silicones can only be removed with detergent. If you are never using shampoo, they tend to stick around.


i've tried AVO5 kiwi and the tea mint, i think it's called-- they're "clarifying" and both seem too drying for my hair. i've tried whole foods 365 and it also seems too drying. my hair loses it's wave and feels crunchy at the roots.

Those sound good for washing with, but maybe you need to follow that with a heavier conditioner. I still use two steps of "shampooing" with conditioner and then "conditioning" with conditioner. Often with two different conditioners.

[Naluin]

So if anyone is like me and having trouble getting their hair clean and it's very dense and thick like mine, maybe washing in two layers is the answer. :) And not too much effort really.

I have found that sectioning my hair is the key to even application, too. The back of my hair is ridiculously thick and I need to break it up into at least six sections to make sure that the conditioner gets evenly distributed. However, it doesn't take much more time than trying to work a whole mass of conditioner into the whole mass of my hair. It just sounds more complicated.

[janaana]

Thank you Savi. Using a rich one for the ends and a lighter one at the roots sounds like it would be a good option for me.

[MoonCreature]

I've been CO for almost 4 months now! :cheese: But I had to wash with schampoo the other day (really really dirty hair and guests arriving way too soon) and ICK! My hair fellt like straw, it was crazy frizzy and I had to do a heavy oiling-aloe-vera treatment just to get it combed through, even if I used co from ears down. Today I had to do a second heavy oil-aloe treatment, so that I wouldn't get tangles. Didn't have this problem when I S&C, but then again I used quite 'cone-rich products then ('coneless now).

So in other words, I love CO and I ain't going back to S&C! :crush:

[fizbobunny]

If you ever have to shampoo again I suggest mixing a dab of shampoo with conditioner and using it that way. I shampoo once a week and this is what I do. It doesn't leave my hair feeling like straw. I use my conditioning conditioner (Suave Berry Smoothie).

[Tangles]

So if anyone is like me and having trouble getting their hair clean and it's very dense and thick like mine, maybe washing in two layers is the answer. :) And not too much effort really.

Oh perfect, I think this is exactly what I need to try. I don't have excessively thick hair, but it could be that I'm just not cleaning the underside of it.

[Nizhoni]

i've been reading the boards but i'm not clear yet why some people avoid proteins. help?

Proteins can make your hair feel dry and straw like, but there is no need for shampoo since proteins will wash off with a protein free conditioner (it might take a few washes). :)


I've been using the CO method since november '07 and my hair and scalp feels so much better now, no more dry hair and itchy scalp! But I did have a hard time finding a conditioner suitable for my itchy scalp, and now the conditoner that I have found has been discontinued so I have to search for a new one. :(

[NurseMama]

This board and this thread has made me start to CO! I bought Wen cleaning conditioner about 6 wks ago and once I started to visit this board I realized that all Wen was was condish! Expensive condish that doesn't do anymore for my hair than Suave or V05!

I am a week and a half into CO and I am so impressed with the reduced frizziness and the curl that is showing up- BUT I am having a little greasyness issue. I am wondering if I am not using enough condish or if I need to scrub more. It is a learnign curve I know!

[Faepirate]

*grumble* It seems that all Waitrose's own brand conditioners have cones! So annoying. All the other supermarkets do nice cheap cone free ones, but no, no, not Waitrose. Wish I had a local ASDA! Or a Poundland. Mmmm. *stops grumbling*

(I need to hunt down that website where you could buy cone-free VO5 in the UK... I know it's in this thread somewhere!)

[3c_Gemini_Curls]

Im a daily CO wahser....helps with my dryness. I leave all of the conditioner in. I use either Suave Coconut, Elucence, White Rain, or V05. Doing this has really helped me save my hair and retain length.

[Country Cowcurl]

wow....i'd really be interested in trying this. i never would've thought i could cleanse with conditioner!!

[Riot Crrl]

CCC, it works out great for not all, but many, curlies! Lorraine Massey's theory is that shampoo dries out our hair more than straight hair.

[Belisama]

My hair is really super dense at the back (that's where all the thickness is - wish I had a more even spread across my head!) and no matter how much conditioner I pile on I can't seem to get my hair properly clean (i.e. without any icky-feeling bits hidden in the hair) unless I wash in two layers.

I was having this issue as well. I have very fine, but thick hair across my whole head. Thick to the point that the top layers would be soaked, but the hair against my scalp would be barely wet. My hair felt clean and soft after washing with CO, but by the second day, as I wash every other day, it was more greasy than it had been when I used shampoo. I thought perhaps I wasn't rinsing enough, but longer rinsing times didn't improve the situation.

Then I tried something new. I wash my hair upside down.

I bend over at the waist and let all my hair hang down. It exposes my roots without me having to dig for them and requires less conditioner to get my head scrubbed clean as it it not getting caught in the top layers. After a thorough dousing and scrubbing of my scalp, I stand up straight, coat the length before I bun it and clip it to the back of my head. To rinse, my shower head has massage settings, so I just turn on the high powered one and let it beat the conditioner from my hair. No more greasiness by day two. :)

[bgarrison]

Proteins can make your hair feel dry and straw like, but there is no need for shampoo since proteins will wash off with a protein free conditioner (it might take a few washes). :)


I've been using the CO method since november '07 and my hair and scalp feels so much better now, no more dry hair and itchy scalp! But I did have a hard time finding a conditioner suitable for my itchy scalp, and now the conditoner that I have found has been discontinued so I have to search for a new one. :(
thank you for explaining this.

i'm still having troubles with this method, but for some reason i really want it to work! :)

i think i must have had a protein overload, as my hair was very dry and strawlike. since i stopped using shampoo and am co only the dryness is gone, but my scalp is an utter mess!! i don't get it. i scritch and massage and i feel like i've got flakes or something, some gunk, because i feel it, but i don't see anything under my nails or when i look at my scalp in the mirror. i don't know if it's sebum or seborrheic d. (sp?) or what. it' s driving me batty. :( it comes very quickly after i wash, and my hair is uber greasy very quickly.

i'm using an AVO5 conditioning cream rinse.

any ideas would be SO welcome!

[brixxgirl16]

thank you for explaining this.

i'm still having troubles with this method, but for some reason i really want it to work! :)

i think i must have had a protein overload, as my hair was very dry and strawlike. since i stopped using shampoo and am co only the dryness is gone, but my scalp is an utter mess!! i don't get it. i scritch and massage and i feel like i've got flakes or something, some gunk, because i feel it, but i don't see anything under my nails or when i look at my scalp in the mirror. i don't know if it's sebum or seborrheic d. (sp?) or what. it' s driving me batty. :( it comes very quickly after i wash, and my hair is uber greasy very quickly.

i'm using an AVO5 conditioning cream rinse.

any ideas would be SO welcome!




Sometimes when I CO I get kind of a waxy/gunky feel on my scalp. Is that your problem? Usually when this happens, I

a) was in a rush and didn't rinse long enough. You have to rinse for at least two minutes to get it all out, and I usually scritch my scalp while I'm rinsing, because conditioner has a tendency to stick.

b) used the wrong conditioner. It must be a clarifying or extra body conditioner. While hair CO'd with a smoothing or moisturizing conditioner might feel cleaner than before, you might get buildup from unremoved sebum and/or leftover conditioner.

c) didn't leave it on long enough. While CO does get your hair clean, the absence of detergents means (at least for me) it has to be left on for about 20 minutes.

Hope this helps! :D

[Nizhoni]

thank you for explaining this.

i'm still having troubles with this method, but for some reason i really want it to work! :)

i think i must have had a protein overload, as my hair was very dry and strawlike. since i stopped using shampoo and am co only the dryness is gone, but my scalp is an utter mess!! i don't get it. i scritch and massage and i feel like i've got flakes or something, some gunk, because i feel it, but i don't see anything under my nails or when i look at my scalp in the mirror. i don't know if it's sebum or seborrheic d. (sp?) or what. it' s driving me batty. :( it comes very quickly after i wash, and my hair is uber greasy very quickly.

i'm using an AVO5 conditioning cream rinse.

any ideas would be SO welcome!

Possible reasons for build-up has been very well discribed by brixxgirl16. When I get build-up I do a sugar/conditioner scrub, that really helps me to get a clean but still moisturized scalp. :)

[dor3girl]

I just tried the CO last night. I did it on my hair & my daughter's hair. It seems okay. . . Her hair seemed a little coated, though. . .

[Faepirate]

Then I tried something new. I wash my hair upside down.

I bend over at the waist and let all my hair hang down. It exposes my roots without me having to dig for them and requires less conditioner to get my head scrubbed clean as it it not getting caught in the top layers. After a thorough dousing and scrubbing of my scalp, I stand up straight, coat the length before I bun it and clip it to the back of my head. To rinse, my shower head has massage settings, so I just turn on the high powered one and let it beat the conditioner from my hair. No more greasiness by day two. :)

Ooooh.
I tried this once and gave up after about 30 seconds - how on earth do you do it without getting huge amounts of water in your eyes?! xD

And when you rinsed it off, did you rinse upside down as well, or just normally?

[minkstole]

I belong in here!
For most of last year I COed, but last time I had my hair coloured I bought a conditioner to take out the brassiness that I sometimes get. It&#180;s loaded with cones and I need shampoo to remove that = brittle dry hair that I can&#180;t comb and that will not hold any form of curl.
For the love of all that is holy, I really hope that I stick to it this time! (But knowing me, I will be tempted to buy something or other, or get my hair coloured agin, and then I`ll have to start over, grrr)
I haven&#180;t noticed the buildup other write about, but I use a vinegar rinse every time, so that might be it

[Nizhoni]

I did try the ACV-rinse but I really, really could not stand the smell. Even when dry my hair smelled way too much, and continued to do so after a few washes. :blueeek:

No, I don't think that I will try that again. :cool:

[NurseMama]

Does anyone use Monistat and CO? If so, what condish are you using to get the MN out and are you having greasy problems?

[Belisama]

Ooooh.
I tried this once and gave up after about 30 seconds - how on earth do you do it without getting huge amounts of water in your eyes?! xD

And when you rinsed it off, did you rinse upside down as well, or just normally?

*chuckles*

I wet my hair, grab it and bend over so I'm not whipping the shower walls and then let it cascade down gently. I also make sure that my face is at least wiped off before I bend over so any water on my cheeks or chin are not running up my nose or into my eyes. I make sure to keep the sprayer behind me as I condition to keep my hair from getting rinsed prematurely and getting my face wet.

I tried using the hand held sprayer to rinse upside and ended up shooting water up my nose and in my ears. So I just put it on the fierce pounding setting and work my fingers through my hair while standing up right. I also rub my scalp as I rinse to make sure I cleanse all the conditioner off it.

HTH :)

[Faepirate]

I tried using the hand held sprayer to rinse upside and ended up shooting water up my nose and in my ears. So I just put it on the fierce pounding setting and work my fingers through my hair while standing up right. I also rub my scalp as I rinse to make sure I cleanse all the conditioner off it.

Hee hee. Yes, water shooting up the nose - this unfortunately is my experience. :D Perhaps rinsing the right way up is a better plan here then! I'll try this tomorrow morning. Thanks :)

[AJoifulNoise]

I just tried the CO last night. I did it on my hair & my daughter's hair. It seems okay. . . Her hair seemed a little coated, though. . .

I have had that problem with some conditioners. Garnier and Aussie to be specific. I don't have that problem with Herbal Essences, though.

[Honey39]

I've been CO-ing for a while now - two months? I've learned the weirdest thing - the cheaper cone-free conditions work a gazillion times better than the heavier conditioners. If I use an incredibly cheap coconut conditioner from Boots/Tescos, my hair looks lovely and bouncy and clean, all oil washed out as easy as ABC. I used a heavier conditioner today, and bleurgh, my hair looks absolutely vile, sort of limp at the roots.

I adore CO-ing my hair. Absolutely the best thing I have found out to do - it's like rediscovering my hair again as being nice! I'm a recently discovered curly girl, and I have, for the first time in my adult life, almost no frizz at all. I love this site! I think I'm becoming obsessed though.

One other thing - how do you keep track of your posts?? I have no idea where I've posted, so can never reply to people's responses - so r ude of me! :)

[Fencai]

Im thinking of going CO...
and after looking through all the vast info... I still have a q'! (der!)
what should I expect when I first start? When I read the WO, it clearly states the different phases and things to expect...
does that happen/not happen with CO?
I'll probably start next weekend. Im leaving for a business trip to Miami tomorrow and have to help out at our booth for the show and dont want to look greasy/odd!

[Faepirate]

Im thinking of going CO...
and after looking through all the vast info... I still have a q'! (der!)
what should I expect when I first start? When I read the WO, it clearly states the different phases and things to expect...
does that happen/not happen with CO?
I'll probably start next weekend. Im leaving for a business trip to Miami tomorrow and have to help out at our booth for the show and dont want to look greasy/odd!

Expectations - I think this really depends on the person :)

When I started with CO I didn't notice any negative effects. I had AMAZING results from the start, and then a period after a couple of weeks where my hair was a bit "bleh" (in hindsight I think this was because I wasn't cleaning thoroughly enough...)

It took a while to work out a CO routine that I was comfortable with.

Some people have said they experienced a kind of transition phase either from the start or after a couple of weeks. I'm not sure what problems they had - I'm guessing things like limpness, greasiness, itchy scalp but maybe others who did have a transition phase could clarify this!

If you have any hair issues with CO, rather than giving up on it straight away I'd recommend first trying a few different conditioners as different conditioners might give different results. You can also vary the amount you slather on and the time you leave it before rinsing out. Different people do CO slightly differently.

I've found that ACV rinses once in a while are a good idea, as even cone-free conditioners can build up on the hair and scalp.

HTH. :)

[Honey39]

Im thinking of going CO...
and after looking through all the vast info... I still have a q'! (der!)
what should I expect when I first start? When I read the WO, it clearly states the different phases and things to expect...
does that happen/not happen with CO?
I'll probably start next weekend. Im leaving for a business trip to Miami tomorrow and have to help out at our booth for the show and dont want to look greasy/odd!

Your hair sounds a bit like mine - and when I first used CO like shampoo, it was absolutely FINE! My big tip would be to not use it like conditioner, ie smooth it from the ears down and then rinse out. Use it more like LOADS of shampoo - piles and piles of cheap conditioner (cone free) into the hair, rub it in thoroughly. I then pile it up for a few minutes while I shower, and then I unclip my hair, add a scoosh of water, and 'lather' it up like shampoo - so it feels almost sudsy, if that makes sense. Then I rinse it out thoroughly, and that's me, good to go.

I liked it a lot as soon as I tried it, and my hair and scalp also loved it! It's so gentle, and my hair was bouncy and full and non frizzy. But my tip is to use cheap runny conditioner, not thick gloopy stuff - it seems to work a lot better for me, at any rate!

[Riot Crrl]

I've been CO-ing for a while now - two months? I've learned the weirdest thing - the cheaper cone-free conditions work a gazillion times better than the heavier conditioners. If I use an incredibly cheap coconut conditioner from Boots/Tescos, my hair looks lovely and bouncy and clean, all oil washed out as easy as ABC. I used a heavier conditioner today, and bleurgh, my hair looks absolutely vile, sort of limp at the roots.

Oh totally. I only wash with the watery stuff, and save the heavy stuff to condition after.

[HairyCarrie]

I'm a fairly newbie member who is still short length but growing daily. I started doing some COing and am now using the Burt's Bees Grapefruit and Sugar Beet product. I like this item (and just bought the shampoo for future use) due to the low toxicity based on the reports from the following website: http://www.cosmeticdatabase.com/

I've been using that website to determine how many chemicals are in a product and whether a vendor does animal testing. I'm glad Burt's Bees is in the low end of toxicity and no poor rabbits had stuff pumped into their eyes.

My hair is feeling very "satisfying" and my mental acceptance is high. :D

I don't know the long term effects of this product as my hair seems to revel in a change pretty regularly. For several days or weeks my hair will feel great with a new item, then the bliss turns to blah -------------------- maybe build-up?

Carrie.

[Riot Crrl]

Could be build up, or something else. A lot of people do OK with certain ingredients for days/weeks, then it just seems to go south.

It may help to have a few things in your arsenal that you could rotate.

[ZaBasDa]

My two months of COing phailed. I have had greasy or even waxy hair after almost every wash. And I've had a really itchy scalp that has been covered in scabs. Though it did make my hair less frizzy and the curls more defined.

I wished this didn't make my scalp so unhappy.

[rapunzhell13]

I'm using Pears Clarifying to wash and Herbal Essences' Hello Hydration to condition. So far it's working beautifully! :D

[bgarrison]

Sometimes when I CO I get kind of a waxy/gunky feel on my scalp. Is that your problem? Usually when this happens, I

a) was in a rush and didn't rinse long enough. You have to rinse for at least two minutes to get it all out, and I usually scritch my scalp while I'm rinsing, because conditioner has a tendency to stick.

b) used the wrong conditioner. It must be a clarifying or extra body conditioner. While hair CO'd with a smoothing or moisturizing conditioner might feel cleaner than before, you might get buildup from unremoved sebum and/or leftover conditioner.

c) didn't leave it on long enough. While CO does get your hair clean, the absence of detergents means (at least for me) it has to be left on for about 20 minutes.

Hope this helps! :D
thank you for your help. i'm still not 100% great-- scalp itchy, some invisible to the eye, but present to the touch goo

i think this is sebum related because after a good scalp massage/ scritching it's back the next day, so i must be exuding it, rather than it's something left behind

but it seems to be lessening, so i'm sticking with co for now. i checked my AVO5 and they were clarifying and deep body.

i tried the brown sugar scrub, but am confused. my sugar seemed pretty well dissolved by the time it went on my head. am i looking for the granular nature to exfoliate or is it more of a chemical reaction? maybe i need to mix it later in the process to avoid dissolving.

also, do you wet the hair before the bs scrub?

thank you!!

[NurseMama]

Does anyone use Monistat and CO? If so, what condish are you using to get the MN out and are you having greasy problems?

Anyone?

*bump*

[Nizhoni]

i tried the brown sugar scrub, but am confused. my sugar seemed pretty well dissolved by the time it went on my head. am i looking for the granular nature to exfoliate or is it more of a chemical reaction? maybe i need to mix it later in the process to avoid dissolving.

also, do you wet the hair before the bs scrub?

thank you!!

I have tried both brown and white sugar and I found that the white one dissolves less fast. The sugar also takes longer time to dissolve if applied onto dry hair/scalp.

How long have you been CO-ing? For some people it may take a week or two for the sebum production to decrease.

[bgarrison]

I have tried both brown and white sugar and I found that the white one dissolves less fast. The sugar also takes longer time to dissolve if applied onto dry hair/scalp.

How long have you been CO-ing? For some people it may take a week or two for the sebum production to decrease.
thank you! i did a wet scalp so will try dry next time.

i've been doing it for several weeks at least, but trying different cream rinses. i'm wondering if that's the problem? i do seem to be getting slightly less itchy and gunky, so maybe it's getting better. the length definitely is prettier.

[bgarrison]

well i think i may have solved my problem. weeks ago i used organix shampoo which has cocamidopropyl betaine which i guess can be an allergen.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocamidopropyl_betaine

my problems started then and i think my scalp is still trying to recover. whew! glad to have figured that out. :)

now, where to go from here?!??!? ;) my scalp needs to heal and calm.....

[Fencai]

well, I took the bite and started CO'ing while I was working in Miami! Today is day 5 of COing... and whilst both Myself and DH were home sick today, we did have to go out grocery shopping. He stopped and looked at me and said, "wow, your hair looks really nice! Are you doing something new to it?" :cheese:

So, yeah I'd say its working so far!

[FrannyG]

I'm happy to hear that the CO is working for you, Fencai. It's over two years now that I've been COing, and I've never looked back.

I've been off cones for two years, but I received a slightly coney conditioner as a gift, and I thought I'd give it a try. It's been two weeks now, and I'm happy to say that it's working fine. I haven't needed to clarify as yet.

[JessTheMess]

I just recently started to use a cone free CO. It is absolutely lovely! Since finding LHC, my hair has been at its best! Thank you all for your hair wisdom

[Fencai]

ok, well Im into my second week, and noticing that my hair looks a little greasy/stringy. my routine has been as follows:
I get in, and wet the hair down, put in the conditioner (White Rain Coconut) and then do the massaging it in. then I clip it up and out of the way while i do the rest of my routine, and then rinse at the end.
Ive also done one ACV rinse a few days ago.

should I start by switching to another conditioner? or should I clarify?

also, how often/frequently do you all CO- daily/every other/once/twice per week?

when I was doing CWC i had it down to about every 4th day, and it seems like I need to CO more frequently.

[Riot Crrl]

should I start by switching to another conditioner? or should I clarify?

Did the vinegar rinse not help at all or did it help for a short time? Were you using cones before? If so then it might help to clarify those. Have you tried just massaging it then rinsing right away instead of soaking it in?


also, how often/frequently do you all CO- daily/every other/once/twice per week?

I rinse my hair out and condition it and detangle it pretty much daily. I only "wash" it every 2nd or 3rd day or so. People tend to not understand what I'm talking about when I say that, which is probably my fault and not theirs, so I'll try to be very specific. Applying conditioner all on the length for the purpose of conditioning, I consider to be conditioning it. I do that almost every day. On the 2nd or 3rd day, before I condition and detangle it, is when I apply the conditioner on my scalp and scrub it as though it were shampoo, for the purpose of cleansing. That is what I consider to be washing it. After that (and also as if I had used shampoo) I apply conditioner on the length (often a heavier conditioner than the one I would use to "shampoo" with) and detangle. I hope that was clear :)


when I was doing CWC i had it down to about every 4th day, and it seems like I need to CO more frequently.

Possibly that is transition and when your scalp gets used to it you'll be able to stretch it again. The greasiness could be that too, if you can't find another cause.

[Fencai]

the ACV helped a little.
I did clarify the cones out when I switched to cone free and that helped a lot at that point.

nope, havent tried putting it in and rinsing right away, I'll give that a go and see what happens.

your explanation was great! I understood you completely!;)

ok, I was thinking it might be transition, but wasnt sure. I'll try the rinsing out right away for a couple weeks and see how that goes.

thanks!

[intothemist1999]

also, how often/frequently do you all CO- daily/every other/once/twice per week?


I usually CO every time I wash, usually every day, sometimes every other day (this time of year, definitely every day). I do a SLS shampoo followed by conditioner on the ends once a week.

At this time of year when it's alot hotter and I perspire more, I sometimes will use a non-SLS shampoo half way through the week.

.

[Caldonia Sun]

I have had a sore, itchy, flaky scalp for several years. Every shampoo (and I've tried them all) has left me with some amount of discomfort and redness. Last year I tried co and had a flaky mess. Out of desperation, I tried again this week with Suave Coconut. My scalp is the cleanest it has been: no white gunk, no soreness, very little to no itching and almost a completely healthy color again. Of course, it's only been three days and my hair looks a bit limp at the roots, but hey, a less angry scalp may be worth it. I'm hopeful.

[Jasmine19]

Plz suggest a good cone free, volumising conditioner!:D

[Riot Crrl]

Anything volumizing is horriffic in my own experience. Oh, you volumized my hair by causing all the scales to stick out and it's now volumized like a stick of cotton candy. Thanks.

The best cone free volumizing conditioner is to use a normal conditioner then after my hair dries shuffle it up with my fingers a little IMO.

[Gilly]

I so want to try this again as my scalp is itchy again and has areas that are a bit dry and scabby (sorry TMI!)
I wonder if adding something like tea tree oil or lavender to the condish may help with it, what do you experts think?

[mitabird]

I so want to try this again as my scalp is itchy again and has areas that are a bit dry and scabby (sorry TMI!)
I wonder if adding something like tea tree oil or lavender to the condish may help with it, what do you experts think?

IME, adding the oil to the conditioner didn't do anything. It was better for me to oil beforehand, leaving it on overnight, and washing out in the morning. I like Sweet Success Hair Oil and jojoba is OK as well.

[bgarrison]

I have had a sore, itchy, flaky scalp for several years. Every shampoo (and I've tried them all) has left me with some amount of discomfort and redness. Last year I tried co and had a flaky mess. Out of desperation, I tried again this week with Suave Coconut. My scalp is the cleanest it has been: no white gunk, no soreness, very little to no itching and almost a completely healthy color again. Of course, it's only been three days and my hair looks a bit limp at the roots, but hey, a less angry scalp may be worth it. I'm hopeful.
Keep posting your progress! I'm having the same scalp issues and trying to figure out a solution. :)

[jivete]

Anyone?

*bump*
I use the 7 day Monistat and CO with Suave coconut. It gets it out fine. I think you have to watch out for mineral oil in your MN cream. The monistat doesn't have any, so there doesn't seem to be any problems, but the cheaper brands usually do.

[Caldonia Sun]

bgarrison,

I CO'd last night and didn't do anything this morning before I went to work. No itching, but a small slightly flaky spot in back. I'm ignoring it until tomorrow. But the scalp color is normal.

ETA: Next Day
CO'd using Suave Coconut and brown sugar scrub. Flaky mess! Did just a partial scalp wash with diluted Thera Neem shampoo and all is well.

[lady_hero]

I did my first CO today. I've been using Nature's Gate Biotin Shampoo and Conditioner, but I was disapointed to learn that the shampoo has SLS in it:confused:and I'm pretty sure that SLS makes me shed a whole lot and gives me scalp itches. I really should have read the bottle better :rolleyes: Since I didn't want to chuck them, I decided to use the 'poo for shaving and just use the condish for CO. I'm REALLY liking the results! My hair is very soft and thick:D I think I'm hooked!

[Jasmine19]

How is Nexus Humectruess as a cond?

[Honey39]

Am so so pleased - I have been CO-ing for a couple of months. Last night, I had a very very heavy EVOO oiling, absolutely slathered it on.

This morning, got up, did a CO-wash as usual - AND IT GOT ALL THE OIL OUT!!!!! Woo hoo, am so happy. Shampoo NEVER got oil out the way that CO does. And now my hair is drying, it's so soft and non frizzy (and clean!) and it's gleaming and shiny.

I find that it has to be a thinnish conditioner though, but it's not hard to get oil out for me.

[swanns]

This morning, got up, did a CO-wash as usual - AND IT GOT ALL THE OIL OUT!!!!! Woo hoo, am so happy. Shampoo NEVER got oil out the way that CO does. And now my hair is drying, it's so soft and non frizzy (and clean!) and it's gleaming and shiny.

I've been wanting to try CO for a while now, but haven't been able to because I've thought the only way to get oil out of my hair is shampoo (I'm also trying frequent coconut oil treatments at the moment), but I'm going to try just CO'ing the oil out of my hair tomorrow morning, we'll seehow it goes! :) Do cone-free conditioners remove oil as well as the cone ones? I'm using a cone-free almond conditioner atm.

[aisling]

I've been wanting to try CO for a while now, but haven't been able to because I've thought the only way to get oil out of my hair is shampoo (I'm also trying frequent coconut oil treatments at the moment), but I'm going to try just CO'ing the oil out of my hair tomorrow morning, we'll seehow it goes! :) Do cone-free conditioners remove oil as well as the cone ones? I'm using a cone-free almond conditioner atm.

My experience is that nothing removes a deep oiling as well as a simple, cone free conditioner. A long soak and it's gone without having to use shampoo and the more light and simple the conditioner, the better it works for me.

[Riot Crrl]

My experience is that nothing removes a deep oiling as well as a simple, cone free conditioner. A long soak and it's gone without having to use shampoo and the more light and simple the conditioner, the better it works for me.

Yes... I haven't tried it with silicone but my fear would be that it might keep the oil in.

[Honey39]

I've been wanting to try CO for a while now, but haven't been able to because I've thought the only way to get oil out of my hair is shampoo (I'm also trying frequent coconut oil treatments at the moment), but I'm going to try just CO'ing the oil out of my hair tomorrow morning, we'll seehow it goes! :) Do cone-free conditioners remove oil as well as the cone ones? I'm using a cone-free almond conditioner atm.

Yeah, I find that light cone-free conditioner works the best of all. I slather it on to wet hair in the shower - and I mean LOADS - massage it in a little bit. Then I pin it up for about five minutes while I wash the rest of me. Then I stick my head under the shower for a second, and then 'wash' my hair with the conditioner; it kind of feels foamy, if that makes sense. Then thoroughly rinse out. And honestly, ALL the heavy EVOO oil came out and my hair dried in these soft gleaming waves, no oil at all.

CO worked a gazillion times better for getting oil out that shampoo ever has done, and this was an incredibly heavy oiling - my hair felt wet with oil.

I wasn't sure it would work, but it did - if it hadn't, I would just have bunned it up and called it a very deep conditioning treatment, lol! Nothing to lose by trying, I think.

[swanns]

Thank you, aisling and Honey39! I'm definitely going to CO the oil out of my hair tomorrow morning :) I'll tell you how it goes!

[Nevermore]

I'm curious if anyone has noticed this with long term CO. When I first did it, I needed something like 10 minutes worth of conditioner-on-hair time to get it clean, then toward the end of probably the first nine months or so, I needed less and less time. I didn't change anything else and at the time, I just figured it was the soft water I had and less sebum production and didn't really mind.

Now, I have hard water and I use conditioner like shampoo-briefly and in very small quantities- and I still get the too clean hair result. At this point, I've started just COing my scalp and doing water only on the length. Is this some kind of freaky, weightlessness-causing build up?

I've used Suave and White Rain, both give me this result. I wet my hair first in warm-ish water, apply conditioner and rinse in water as cold as the shower will provide at this time of year. No leave in, no products except a small amount of vitamin E oil (soybean, coconut, vit E), I haven't clarified since I started COing, updos pretty much all the time except at night when it's loose. I massage/preen once or twice a day.

I don't really...MIND the weightless clean feeling, but it doesn't work well with updos and I'm concerned that there's a bad reason why it's doing this. Any ideas?

I should add that even when I wash often, that's only three times a week.

[themostsilly]

I just saw an infomercial for Wen hair prodeucts. Essential they work on the same concept as CO washing because the main product they sell is a cleansing conditioner cream, and they claim its the only product that you used in the shower, that it does the job of both shampoo and conditioner. Well obvisouly it sounds like a good idea, but it seems to be a total rip off, they charge like $30 a bottle, and it suggests using 20 pumps for each wash, for long hair more. It's like someone tried just washing with conditioner, and said how can I profit of this idea. I am not saying this is a bad product, but I'm sure you can yeild the exact same results coing with a cheap conditioner. I was wondering if anyone had heard of this prodeuct, or even tried it? I thought it would be appropiate to place in this thread since the main idea is CO washing.
On another note, I have decided to switch to primarily CO washing, and wondering what condish anyone could reccommend? I would like to use a natural condish, if anyone has had some good results with any...Right not I am using the suave white clarifying one, but I don't really like it that much. I will be searching around the forum, but all suggestions are very appreciated.

[Nevermore]

There's a thread on conventional products about Wen themostsilly :) That'd probably answer all your Wen-specific questions.

[Kirin]

For me personally, Suave just doesn't work for CO, I dont know why. It leaves my ends dry, and scalp oily.

My holy grails for CO are LaBella conditioner (I used to hate this stuff with S&C but for CO it works wonders... still hate the smell) but my all time fave is V05 Kiwi Lime Squeeze Clarifying and/or V05 Vitaburst.

To my sheer amazement, V05 has gotten out oils, hair gel, henna residue, MINERAL OIL, mousse and hairspray, with no need for shampoo. I do use some pomades and creams with mineral oil and the KLS gets it completely out. Nothing tacky afterwards

[bgarrison]

thanks for the update, caldonia sun! I went looking for some tonight, but my local CVS was out.

Does the thera neem have a bad smell? I've been tempted but read some horrible things about the odor of neem.

Still itchy here, but was reading last night about hormonal imbalances causing itchy scalp, so am researching that idea some more as well.

[Honey39]

I have a question about CO-washing - I've been doing it for about two months now, and it works beautifully! I've been using cheap, cone-free conditioner, and it's perfect. However, CAN you use cones in CO successfully? I have some old conditioners kicking around, and I'm not sure whether to use them or ditch them - they are probably thicker than the cone-free ones I've been using.

I just wondered whether conditioners with cones work for CO-ing, or if they are less effective than the cheapo cone-free ones (which ARE harder to find). TIA!

[Elainehali]

Honey39, I have been able to CO with conditioners that have cones.

However, I find that I need to clairify when my hair gets that heavy feeling with a sulphate shampoo.

I'm sure it varies how long you can go without clairification.

[swanns]

Could someone explain what you mean by clarifying? I've a vague idea but I'd like to be sure :)

[aisling]

Clarifying = washing with a clarifying shampoo* (in my case Herbina :)) to get out residues that stick to my hair. It might be cones, it might be oils and different other ingredients in mainly conditioners.

Signs that you need to clarify:

sticky, dry ends that stick to each other whatever you do, so called velcro ends
lank, oily looking hair that never seems to get clean, at least not with gentle LHC methods of washing


*baking soda mixed with conditioner/water/shampoo is also clarifying but I prefer a shampoo

[Jasmine19]

How bad is a cone conditioner?? Is Nexus Humectruss cone free?? though I read the labels and it said nothing like cones in it!!

In Vo5 and Suave I didn't find anything without cones!Not in WM!! :p

[Riot Crrl]

I think some of the people who are having success with cone conditioners are shampooing occasionally.

Humectress doesn't look like it has cones but it's high in mineral oil which could be potentially problematic if you're never shampooing.


Water (Aqua), Stearalkonium Chloride, Glycerin, Cetyl Alcohol, Mineral Oil, Cetearyl Alcohol, Wheat Flour Lipids (Triticum Vulgare), Tetrahexyldecyl Ascorbate, Alpha Glucan Oligosaccharide, Keratin Amino Acids, Panthenol, Tocopheryl Acetate, Magnesium Citrate, Manganese Citrate, Avocado Oil (Persea Gratissima), Soybean Sterol (Glycine Soja), Ceramide 3, Butyl Methoxydibenzoylmethane, Ethylhexyl Methoxycinnamate, Myristic Acid, Palmitic Acid, Stearic Acid, Sodium Sorbate, Guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium Chloride, Petrolatum, Stearyl Alcohol, Disodium EDTA, DMDM Hydantoin, Iodopropynyl Butylcarbamate, PEG 40 Castor Oil, Citric Acid, Phenoxyethanol, Methylparaben, Propylparaben, Fragrance (Parfum), Red 4 (CI 14700), Yellow 5 (CI 19140), Blue 1 (CI 42090), Red 33 (CI 17200)

[Jasmine19]

I do shampoo most of the times, but I get your point when one has to do only COs

[Hey You]

I really hope it works this time, because it's the third day running and I'm getting pretty sick of rinsing my hair!

I first heard about conditioner-only washing from my hairdresser, who tried to do it on me. It didn't work at all. I left a trail of slime across the salon floor and was back at the basin within about ten seconds.

Tried doing it myself a couple of days ago. It felt as if I might be getting somewhere... but no. It ended up feeling fairly clean, but not looking it, and I might have decided it just wasn't for me... except there was this point when it was drying when it looked AMAZING, every strand glittering in the light. I put it up rather than wash it again straight away.

Weirdly, it actually looked better and cleaner the following day, but still not really good enough to go. So I tried CO-ing again yesterday, because I certainly needed to wash it after that. This time it sort of worked, and yet it didn't. It felt gorgeous and when it was all brushed smooth, it looked incredibly shiny, but still it was a bit stringy and oily, especially in front.


I'm not sure if this is the "adjustment period" or whether I just wasn't doing it quite right, but anyway, that used up the last of the conditioner I had in the house, so I bought some Neutrogena volumising yesterday. Think I'm going to do it in the bath and hop into the shower to rinse this time - give the poor drains a rest. (Yeah, I didn't realise before finding this board that the problem with the shower drain is my fault).

[intothemist1999]

I really hope it works this time, because it's the third day running and I'm getting pretty sick of rinsing my hair!.

I find the trick is experimenting till you find the right conditioner (been there, done that!)

At the moment my faves are White Rain (I can only get the Strawberry and the Extra Body ones here, and I like the EB better) and a new one from Down Under Naturals, called "Nude"

For all the unused conditioners I ended up buying but didn't work, I'm using now for a leg shaving cream (another trick I learned here!) At least it's not all going to waste!

HTH!

.

[Hey You]

I'm in the UK - I don't think we get White Rain here, I don't recognise the name anyway. Volumising conditioner definitely helped - the first couple of times I had to practically drown myself before any of the conditioner seemed to come off, this time it just rinsed off so fast that after about twenty seconds it didn't even feel as if I needed to go on (although I did. Wasn't going to be fooled this time.)

And... it worked! It worked! Well, 95%. It's still a teeny bit lank in the very front where the hair's finest and shortest. But much less so than last time. And the rest of it... my God, I'm beautiful! I had absolutely no idea it could look this shiny or feel so soft. Course it's pretty much cut my productivity in half today as I can't stop going and looking at it or playing with it. It looks like virgin hair! And I've been putting Sun-In on it (albeit in ever-decreasing quantities) for fifteen years! And this from a £1.29 bottle of condtioner... thank you, LHC!

Also, I poked around deeper in the drains than I had ever dared before and... yuk. I suppose subconsciously I knew.

[aisling]

Hey You, some basic question to think about!


What conditioner did you use? Generally, the lighter, cheaper and cone free ones work the best and are good to start with. Don't use heavy conditioners, something you just happen to have laying around. Yes, some people are lucky with those, but for the majority the cheap and light ones work the best.

How long did you leave the conditioner in your hair? If you only left it for a couple of minutes, try a little longer time. Some of us even add the conditioner to dry hair and then walk around with that for 30 minutes and more.

Did you massage well before rinsing? Add a little water wand massage your hair gently before rinsing, it usually helps lifting the grease. Some conditioners even foam when you do this :)

And finally, for how long did you rinse? Rinsing well is important, from your posts it seems like you actually did that :)

[Hey You]

Seems like we cross-posted, aisling but thanks - I might try and apply some of that to the slightly-less-tractable front bits. Maybe more massaging and even more rinsing would help there...

[Slug Yoga]

I've been COing for a few months, every 4 or 5 days or so, with VO5 Vanilla Mint Tea conditioner, and it's been working well. The conditioner feels light and rich, and my hair feels soft and clean, even a little squeaky, but not in a bad way.

Lately, though, my hair was seeming a bit greasy, so I shampooed with Burt's Bees Grapefruit and Sugarbeet (or something like that) shampoo, and conditioned with the matching conditioner, then did a CO wash. My hair looks great and shiny now. I think I am going to shampoo with the Burt's Bees every few washes. It has no SLSes or anything. So if anyone is doing CO washes but feels like you could use a little more cleaning power every now and then, I'd recommend that, since it was effective but still very gentle.

[pariate]

My hair seems to have done a complete 180 since I started my CO routine!

When I first converted to CO I found I had to do some heavy-duty clarifying every six weeks or so to prevent build up. I used one of the MOP shampoos (either the Pear or the C-System Sulfate-Free Clarifying) and followed with a conditioner on my lengths. If I try that now, my hair feels like straw! Now I use a glob of my usual CO conditioner with a little shampoo mixed into it. Using it diluted like that seems to remove any buildup I have but is much gentler on my hair.

I experimented with a few "gentler" shampoos for clarifying but my scalp rebelled.

The last few washes, I've used the "diluted" poo method described above and I think I prefer this now. I use a tiny tiny amount of the poo and a huge handful of the CO, but it leaves my hair feeling a little lighter and fresher.

Anyone else here using a similar modified CO routine?

[pariate]

Lately, though, my hair was seeming a bit greasy, so I shampooed with Burt's Bees Grapefruit and Sugarbeet (or something like that) shampoo, and conditioned with the matching conditioner, then did a CO wash. My hair looks great and shiny now. I think I am going to shampoo with the Burt's Bees every few washes. It has no SLSes or anything. So if anyone is doing CO washes but feels like you could use a little more cleaning power every now and then, I'd recommend that, since it was effective but still very gentle.

When I used poo to clarify my hair I would follow with a full CO wash too - it sure took the impact out of a clarifying wash!

[Caldonia Sun]

Update on CO for me. I started about three weeks ago. What seems to be working (and with my scalp, that could always change) is that I CO, rinse, then pour an extremely diluted bit of shampoo water on the scalp. The itching, soreness and redness is almost non-existent now.

I tried Sally's CureCare today and I think I may like it better than Suave Coconut. I did water it down though, as it's thicker than I need. Followed up with about a teaspoon of Queen Helene Mint Julep shampoo in a cup of water and hair is looking and feeling pretty nice.

bgarrison, I'll never know for sure what caused this scalp thing, but it's verra possible that it's hormonal since it started in my 40's. It could also be diet as some drs. believe that candida is the culprit. And I've always wondered if I damaged my scalp using hair dye for 16 years.

TheraNeem doesn't smell too bad and doesn't leave any scent in your hair. It's not flowery, probably more herbal smelling, but I don't think there is enough neem oil in it to really give it a strong smell.

[pariate]

Calling all Nature's Gate users! Do you CO with any of their conditioners? Have you tried it in the past? If so can you please tell me how it worked out? I'd love to try some of theirs but their range is huuuuuuge so I'm in search of guidance ;)

Thank you so much :flower:

[chelles2kids]

I have a question about CO-washing - I've been doing it for about two months now, and it works beautifully! I've been using cheap, cone-free conditioner, and it's perfect. However, CAN you use cones in CO successfully? I have some old conditioners kicking around, and I'm not sure whether to use them or ditch them - they are probably thicker than the cone-free ones I've been using.

I just wondered whether conditioners with cones work for CO-ing, or if they are less effective than the cheapo cone-free ones (which ARE harder to find). TIA!

When CO'ing using a cone free conditioner works best for your first conditioner, but you can definately follow up with one of your 'coney conditoners.
'Coney conditioners are perfect for your 2nd conditioner.

This of course will take some experimentation. Using a coney conditioner every time might be too heavy for your hair type, so maybe every other time?
But then again, your hair might crave that extra conditoner, so it might be fine every time.;)


Michelle

[chelles2kids]

How bad is a cone conditioner?? Is Nexus Humectruss cone free?? though I read the labels and it said nothing like cones in it!!

In Vo5 and Suave I didn't find anything without cones!Not in WM!! :p

This thread might help:
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=2216&highlight=cone+free+conditioners




Michelle

[detritus]

Calling all Nature's Gate users! Do you CO with any of their conditioners? Have you tried it in the past? If so can you please tell me how it worked out? I'd love to try some of theirs but their range is huuuuuuge so I'm in search of guidance ;)

Thank you so much :flower:

I have some of the hemp condish right now. I love how it smells but it's a little too light for use after shampooing and tends not to be light enough for CO. My hair looks kind of lank and greasy when I CO with it. I haven't tried CO with the other varieties.

[pariate]

Thanks Detritus.

I've also found a site selling Suave and American-formulation VO5 (the UK versions aren't cone-free, go figure) so I'm having a whale of a time at the moment! Like a kid in a toy shop :D I'm going to order some of the Suave coconut, Suave green apple and VO5 kiwi lime. I had to rein myself in - I started out with 10 different varieties in the shopping basket! :oops: A little restraint was called for... :lol: I've settled on these three, I'll see how it goes.

[Dolly]

Thanks Detritus.

I've also found a site selling Suave and American-formulation VO5 (the UK versions aren't cone-free, go figure) so I'm having a whale of a time at the moment! Like a kid in a toy shop :D I'm going to order some of the Suave coconut, Suave green apple and VO5 kiwi lime. I had to rein myself in - I started out with 10 different varieties in the shopping basket! :oops: A little restraint was called for... :lol: I've settled on these three, I'll see how it goes.

Oh I love the Suave green apple.....I also like the Suave citrus smoothie. My favorite for CO is white rain extra body, though.....

[pariate]

Oh I love the Suave green apple.....I also like the Suave citrus smoothie. My favorite for CO is white rain extra body, though.....

I'm still dying to get my hands on some of that WR! I've heard so many people raving about it for CO washing. There's an eBay seller who sells imported American cheap conditioners like VO5 and Suave. I've been mailing her and she can do "requests" so I might ask her if she can get hold of White Rain for me too.

[Dolly]

I'm still dying to get my hands on some of that WR! I've heard so many people raving about it for CO washing. There's an eBay seller who sells imported American cheap conditioners like VO5 and Suave. I've been mailing her and she can do "requests" so I might ask her if she can get hold of White Rain for me too.


The White Rain energizing citrus is nice too.......since I started the CO regimen, I have gone through SOOOOOO MUCH conditioner!!!

[DecafJane]

I have jumped on the CO bandwagon! My hair was feeling like it was getting a little dry after months of cones, plus the cones just stole all of the curls from my hair.

I went to the shops on Thursday to find some cone-free conditioner, and the only ones I could find were all of the lovely organic-type ones, which smell absolutely divine! I found one brand which sells locally for $18 for a 1 litre bottle, and it seems to be quite nice, so I am happy. :)
I also found a nice Alchemy deep treatment which I bought, as I have the leave-in conditioner and really like it.

My ends are feeling soft again, and the strands of ringlets have been separating right away. Hooray!

[ravenreed]

Hi, I am new to here, and a mess. =P

I have waist length hair that I color burgundy about every 5 weeks, and as you can imagine the ends are terrible. I have a very oily scalp and have to shampoo every day. I can go two, but by the end of the second day my hair is flat and weird...

I tend to be conservative on the stuff I put in my hair because either I get migraines from the way things smell OR I get horrible cysts on my scalp from the product. (strangely, the more expensive, the more likely I am to break out...) In addition, I have bad acne on my back and tend to be careful not to let conditioner drip there.

I have been using Fructis and a pink Dove that I can't find anymore. I have tried the Suave conditioners, but they don't seem to condition my hair well. Lately, I have been just shampooing the crown, and putting in a lot of conditioner everywhere but the scalp and letting it set while I shower, but I still have the crunchy ends.

I would love to switch to CO but I was wondering if anyone had suggestions? Could I still put the Fructis on the ends and maybe use something else for the crown? What is the benefit to using apple cider? I occasionally rinse with a bit of lemon juice, which was actually recommended on the site of the hair color I use. And what is this about baking soda? In one post somewhere, someone said they put it in the night before and brushed it through.

I have a boar bristle brush somewhere. I may try brushing more with it to see if it helps with second day oilies.

Alrighty there. Any help or suggestions would be great!