The CO (conditioner only) washing thread

[ratgirldjh]

Actually I might eventually try GVP Conditioning Balm or Biolage again. Or at least smell the GVP one. Seems like I am a little less sensitive to fragrances lately.

I can usually tell though whether or not they will be ones that I will be sensitive to by the way they feel in my nose (lol). If it feels 'sharp' and makes my throat sore just from a whiff or two - stay away. If it feels soft and smooth and doesn't make my throat hurt then I will stick a little bit on my scalp and ear and walk around the store. If it passes this test I bring it home and do it again. And eventually I get the nerve to try it.

This isn't always fail proof though... sigh... ;)

I was absolutely shocked when I smelled the Pantene and it was sooo strong and didn't have any reaction beyond it being strong! I must have tested it on my scalp and ear 3 times before I actually bought it!!! I couldn't believe it could be true! Funny, I'm actually starting to LIKE the smell! :D

[ratgirldjh]

I'm trying to work up my nerve to try other coney conditioners that have the same formula like maybe Aussie Moist but man it smells weird!!! I didn't like the smell of Hello Hydration at all which surprised me! It made my throat hurt :(

Can anyone recommend Aussie Moist for CO-washing? And does the weird smell linger? At least it didn't feel 'sharp'...

[amanda_the_tall]

I'm trying to work up my nerve to try other coney conditioners that have the same formula like maybe Aussie Moist but man it smells weird!!! I didn't like the smell of Hello Hydration at all which surprised me! It made my throat hurt :(

Can anyone recommend Aussie Moist for CO-washing? And does the weird smell linger? At least it didn't feel 'sharp'...

aussie moist is one of my favorite coney conditioners, i use their deep conditioner all the time. however, when i used the shampoo/conditioner for a long period of time i had a more frequent occurrence of breakouts along/in my hairline. the smell can be strong, and it does linger, so if you don't find the scent pleasant i wouldn't buy it. it's also LOADED with cones, and the most moisturizing (cheap) conditioner i have ever used. i have used the deep conditioner on the length when co washing, but i have not tried the regular conditioner for co washing.

[Kayla Nyx]

Hi! I'm thinking of starting CO washings, but I don't quite wanna quit shampoo cold turkey. Anyone recommend some sulfate free shampoos that I could use once a week or every other??

[cmg]

I think why it works for me so well is NO glycerine and no protein. My hair hates glycerine and I've never found a cheap conditioner without it and that I wasn't allergic too...
Thats why I use the ones with less than ten ingredients. Preferably five or six. The really cheap ones are the best and safest for me.

If I happened to use a product I shouldnt have, it can cause a rash when the hair touches my shoulders or neck. The scalp seems to be able to withstand more stuff without reacting allergically. The sebum coating is really effective.



Like baby oil - if it doesn't touch my scalp I can use it. Once it touches my scalp or ears it burns and if I don't act quick my hairs fall out!!! Eek!!! But I do love baby oil and use 1 drop on my ends and no problem!
There are several compositions of baby oil. I assume you are talking about mineral oil/petrolatum? I get a rash out of that type baby oil. It was one of the first things I started to get an allergic reaction from. I have kept away from it for decades, so today I might be able to touch some quickly, but I dont buy the stuff anyway. I tried to use my old silicone drops on the ends the other day with funny results. They got poker straight and after a while very stiff and strange. I cant use neither mineral oil or cones any more.


I don't think I'm allergic to glycerine it is just that it won't come out of my hair. One wash with a conditioner with glycerine in it and my hair no matter how much I rinse doesn't want to dry!!! It is pretty humid here though and perhaps this is why.

Once I washed my hair with glycerine soap and had much the same result! And when I went outside I could feel my hair actually get damp!

My hair hangs on to some things for some reason - like eggs! and glycerine and coconut oil!
He he, my hair can react like that sometimes in humid weather. I live half the year at the shore. Gets very weird with glycerine in it! Thankfully eggs have never been a problem for me though.


I can usually tell though whether or not they will be ones that I will be sensitive to by the way they feel in my nose (lol). If it feels 'sharp' and makes my throat sore just from a whiff or two - stay away. If it feels soft and smooth and doesn't make my throat hurt then I will stick a little bit on my scalp and ear and walk around the store. If it passes this test I bring it home and do it again. And eventually I get the nerve to try it.

This isn't always fail proof though... sigh...

I know exactly what you are talking about! My nose reacts like that and it really hurts. Finally there is someone else that understands this! :bowtome:

Unfortunately I cant advice you about sniff-test approved conditioners :D because the products available in the states that everybody here on LHC are talking about are different from the ones available in Europe. I have an "Aussie" conditioner though, that works for me. It has quats but no cones; Aussie Frizz miracle conditioner.
This one: http://www.aussiehair.com/uk/products/frizz-miracle-conditioner.php
I dont care much for the smell (moderately mild) but it works fine. Works very well for CO-wash and as a leave-in. It feels like a cone-heavy condish, it is very "thick" but it does also clean well.

I can get Tressemmé sometimes mentioned here (conefree or with cones) also. But usually I buy the cheap noname one without much anything in it or a Franck Provost condish. No hazzle, no funny smells.

/ CMG

[brave]

Hi! I'm thinking of starting CO washings, but I don't quite wanna quit shampoo cold turkey. Anyone recommend some sulfate free shampoos that I could use once a week or every other??

I like the Trader Joes Tea Tree Tingle (I use the bodywash but the shampoo is the same). Has coco betaine so it takes care of cones, feels good, foams great, and is around 3$.

[gthlvrmx]

I hit a point in my CO washing that i began getting flakes, it became itchy on certain spots, and i had this strange hair smell, and it felt kinda limp and it clumped together. It wasn't good. I had to start shampooing and it helped actually, i shampoo once every 3 weeks now. I tried CWC every wash but....my hair started getting dry on the ends and i didnt like that. I get some flakes by the end of the 3-4th week but its nothing really, i think its buildup from my conditioner. I ALWAYS get buildup easily, its not nice. My scalp is just sensitive i guess. I guess i cant be a full time CO washer :( le sigh! my curls are slightly poofier on the CWC days but oh well. Its the best i can do i guess. And i dont want to wash my hair a lot, once a week is fine.
Maybe its because i began getting buildup from my own oils from not washing a lot, but my scalp is really fine now after starting shampooing once a month. So whatever it was its better now.

[earthnut]

Hi! I'm thinking of starting CO washings, but I don't quite wanna quit shampoo cold turkey. Anyone recommend some sulfate free shampoos that I could use once a week or every other??

I have a big list here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AojS7E2gXDbndEE1MUdlNDliU3VXbEVwUjNVSnY0N 1E

I personally use Everyday Shea Bubble Bath and I use a very little amount when needed (I just invert the bottle on my palm and then back up again).

[cmg]

Hi! I'm thinking of starting CO washings, but I don't quite wanna quit shampoo cold turkey. Anyone recommend some sulfate free shampoos that I could use once a week or every other??

Body Shop has several shampoos that are sulphate free. The Rainforest series also have no cones, colorants or parabenes. They clean mildly and dont weigh the hair down.

I used to love the Ice-Blue shampoo from Body Shop but it has SLS in it (no cones), the same goes for the banana shampoo. Most of them ones outside the Rainforest series seem to contain EDTA if you are looking for a chelating one. It doesnt harm anyhow.

/ CMG

[ratgirldjh]

Thanks cmg! And it is so nice to find someone else who understands the 'nose' thing!!! :)

I am not sensitive to baby oil or mineral oil or even petroleum jelly AT ALL. It is just the fragrance in the Johnson's & Johnson's that I have that irritates my skin. Can't believe they would put a fragrance that could irritate skin in baby oil!!!

Nearly all the cheapie conditioners I have seen here have glycerine. I am not allergic to it but my hair just won't let it wash away easily! Your lucky to have cheapie conditioners without funny smells! Here all the cheapies are very highly fragranced.

I am not allergic to Suave Tropical Coconut but it is too much protein for me to use more than once. I had problems with VO5 and really just was afraid to try more.

Tresseme was too highly scented for me.

Perhaps I will try the Aussie stuff. I would try the Moist regular conditioner for CO. I don't mind the cones - as long as it is the same cone as in Pantene Ice Shine. I have had no trouble with build up at all with it and every other CONE FREE conditioner I have ever tried up until now has left build up on me after 1 or 2 washes... yay!

[cmg]

I have a big list here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AojS7E2gXDbndEE1MUdlNDliU3VXbEVwUjNVSnY0N 1E

I personally use Everyday Shea Bubble Bath and I use a very little amount when needed (I just invert the bottle on my palm and then back up again).

Oh what a long list! Unfortunately I dont recognize a single one of the products mentioned. I have not seen them in Germany or Sweden. I suppose available in Europe means on line purchase then.

/ CMG

[earthnut]

Oh what a long list! Unfortunately I dont recognize a single one of the products mentioned. I have not seen them in Germany or Sweden. I suppose available in Europe means on line purchase then.

/ CMG

Sorry, I don't really know. Since I'm in the US, it's hard for me to know what's available elsewhere and it's also hard to find ingredient lists for foreign products. So I'm sure they're highly underrepresented. :(

[louzen]

Does anyone here use Everyday Shea conditioner on their scalp? I'm desperately trying to find a cheap condtioner with as few controversial ingredients as possible. Everyday Shea seems to fits the bill from my research except it contains the preservative Phenoxyethanol, which is controversial, see here http://www.organicapoteke.com/blog/2010/06/natural-skin-care-the-dangers-of-phenoxyethanol/ and here http://www.truthinaging.com/ingredient-spotlight/what-is-it-phenoxyethanol-and-is-it-safe.

On top of the carcinogenic and toxic warnings it has been alleged to cause contact dermatitis and I wondered if anyone here noticed any bad side effects after using it on the scalp (dry, itchy, irritated?)

Also, any other conditioner recommendations similar to Everyday Shea would be very useful :)

[brave]

I've used it on my scalp and haven't noticed any itchiness. But I don't like how little slip it has so I don't use it regularly for cleansing.

I think in terms of similarity, maybe Shea Moisture's conditioners? But they are more expensive. I know Whole Foods sells a conditioner called 365 Conditioner and it has a relatively simple ingredients list, although not very similar. If it's the moisturizing/no protein combo you're after and not necessarily the Shea, I'd say try GVP conditioning balm (Sally's). Alaffia, the parent company to Everyday Shea, makes a lot of different conditioners (http://www.alaffia.com/store/pc/Conditioners-c19.htm) and I know at least one of them is pretty highly recommended for the tightlycurly method. They do seem to be more expensive though.

[Neecola]

I like the Trader Joes Tea Tree Tingle (I use the bodywash but the shampoo is the same). Has coco betaine so it takes care of cones, feels good, foams great, and is around 3$.

I second this recommendation. Back when I still used 'poo, this was my go-to.

[cmg]

Phenoxyethanol is a very common ingredient. It must be difficult to tell if this or some other ingredient is causing trouble in a product.

/ CMG

[In2wishin]

Phenoxyethanol is a very common ingredient. It must be difficult to tell if this or some other ingredient is causing trouble in a product.

/ CMG

Figuring out what is causing an issue is a combination of guesswork, the process of elimination, and deductive reasoning ....... and is not at all easy.

Do you have a shampoo and/or conditioner that you KNOW doesn't cause you problems? I would start there and write down all of the ingredients for all of the ones that are not a problem. Then take all of the ones that have been a problem and write down all of those ingredients and compare. (Probably a job for an Excel spreadsheet) Take those ingredients that appear in the problem products but do not appear in the OK products and read up on them. Who knows, you may get that Aha! moment I had when I found out that certain preservatives released formaldehyde, which I have long known I was allergic to.

[earthnut]

Does anyone here use Everyday Shea conditioner on their scalp? I'm desperately trying to find a cheap condtioner with as few controversial ingredients as possible. Everyday Shea seems to fits the bill from my research except it contains the preservative Phenoxyethanol, which is controversial, see here http://www.organicapoteke.com/blog/2010/06/natural-skin-care-the-dangers-of-phenoxyethanol/ and here http://www.truthinaging.com/ingredient-spotlight/what-is-it-phenoxyethanol-and-is-it-safe.

On top of the carcinogenic and toxic warnings it has been alleged to cause contact dermatitis and I wondered if anyone here noticed any bad side effects after using it on the scalp (dry, itchy, irritated?)

Also, any other conditioner recommendations similar to Everyday Shea would be very useful :)

I use Everyday Shea and love it. However I don't use it on my scalp much. I was using it for washing the scalp, but my scalp started feeling gunky (not dry) and itchy. I have NO idea if that was caused by an ingredient or not. I attributed it to my scalp simply not getting clean enough from CO washing. I still use just a little on my scalp and a lot as a leave in on my length, and don't get that reaction anymore.

[Suze2012]

I'm shocked!

No cones or sulphates for 3 months..
Treid a cone condish...one day was good.
Day two...uh oh! Awful!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is no cone wash and coney condish....I am a frizzball!

[MrsGuther]

Thinking about switching to CO washing,to give it another try. I did it for a few weeks previously and it made my hair shed like crazy. I would like to see if I could figure out a way to do CO washing and not have a big shed.

[brave]

Thinking about switching to CO washing,to give it another try. I did it for a few weeks previously and it made my hair shed like crazy. I would like to see if I could figure out a way to do CO washing and not have a big shed.

A little earlier in this thread there was a discussion about that. Afu pointed out that some of the preservatives in Suave and a few other cheap co-wash conditioners might be responsible.

[Tisiloves]

Has anyone else experienced increased shedding just while washing? I probably shed 75 or so hairs during washing and post-wash detangling, but in the next 2 days I only shed 10-20 hairs, then day 3 I'm back to my usual 50 a day.

[earthnut]

Has anyone else experienced increased shedding just while washing? I probably shed 75 or so hairs during washing and post-wash detangling, but in the next 2 days I only shed 10-20 hairs, then day 3 I'm back to my usual 50 a day.

I shed a lot if I start messing with my hair as soon as it's wet. It I hold off on handling my hair much until after it's covered with conditioner, I get very little shedding. I don't handle my hair much otherwise, so very little shedding then. (If I attempt to detangle or brush dry, I shed.) As long as I limit detangling and handling to wet conditioner-covered hair, I'm good.

[louzen]

Thanks earthnut and brave for the Everyday Shea conditioner review.

Everyday Shea also do a conditioner for babies without that preservative so might give that one a try (probably just for my peace of mind more than anything else :) )

[afu]

Thanks earthnut and brave for the Everyday Shea conditioner review.

Everyday Shea also do a conditioner for babies without that preservative so might give that one a try (probably just for my peace of mind more than anything else :) )

Let me know how you get on with it :)

[louzen]

Let me know how you get on with it :)

Hi afu, sure will do :)

[ratgirldjh]

Hey everyone! I just wanted to say here that when I have tried CO washing in the past - every conditioner I used with the exception of AOHR which was too hard to rinse out! and Suave TC which built up quickly, all the other conditioners made my hairs fall out a lot after washing.

Right now I'm using Pantene Ice Shine and surprisingly I shed practically no hairs! At least so far. Hope it keeps up..

[brave]

Hey everyone! I just wanted to say here that when I have tried CO washing in the past - every conditioner I used with the exception of AOHR which was too hard to rinse out! and Suave TC which built up quickly, all the other conditioners made my hairs fall out a lot after washing.

Right now I'm using Pantene Ice Shine and surprisingly I shed practically no hairs! At least so far. Hope it keeps up..

Weird! I always hear complaints that AOHR is too hard to rinse out. I haven't had trouble with it though. Smells so goooooood.

The GVP conditioning balm is great as a leave-in/heavy second step but its detangling properties are not what I dreamt. I think it was the chelating shampoo that eradicated tangles that one day. So it's back to Suave for detangling. I've been cheating and using my denman in the shower to help detangle. I'm in love with that brush -- it doesn't seem to disrupt my curl pattern even if I use it on wet hair after the shower.

I'm gonna look into adding something to give some of these conditioners a little more slip. Any suggestions? Glycerin is one I've seen.

[afu]

For a bit more slip I would recommend adding a bit of sweet almond oil :) works wonderfully for shine, slip and detangling

[brave]

For a bit more slip I would recommend adding a bit of sweet almond oil :) works wonderfully for shine, slip and detangling

Hmm, I am going home tomorrow where I know my mother has a huge container of this. And my hair loved it when I tried it before. Time to experiment!

[Ginbill]

Hey guys, I'm new here but I just did my first co wash last night. I think it turned out really nicely. I didn't even have to comb my hair out. I just fixed a few spots with my fingers. Before yesterday I was doing the regular shampoo and condition method every 2-3 days. My hair feels a lot softer and looks like I could actually wear it down. I'm horrible about throwing it up into a ponytail.

http://i50.tinypic.com/13ym3ao.jpg

[brave]

It looks wonderful! Welcome to the cult :)

[kitschy]

Okay, so I bought a bottle of Pantene Ice Shine for $3.99. I figured what the heck, it really isn't much of an investment.

I've CO washed twice with it, and I must tell you the results are less than stunning on my curly hair.

I do not recommend using it. It has left my hair crunchy, dry and not inclined to clump. All in all, I will stick to my V05 or Suave.

Just my 2 cents.

[DarkCurls]

Okay, so I bought a bottle of Pantene Ice Shine for $3.99. I figured what the heck, it really isn't much of an investment.

I've CO washed twice with it, and I must tell you the results are less than stunning on my curly hair.

I do not recommend using it. It has left my hair crunchy, dry and not inclined to clump. All in all, I will stick to my V05 or Suave.

Just my 2 cents.

Hm. I was just debating whether or not to try this one (even though I'm currently cone-free) from the glowing praise it has, but... :p Thanks for sharing.
Wish I could find a cheapo conditioner like VO5 or Suave here.

[kitschy]

Hm. I was just debating whether or not to try this one (even though I'm currently cone-free) from the glowing praise it has, but... :p Thanks for sharing.
Wish I could find a cheapo conditioner like VO5 or Suave here.

Yeah, I think it is the cones. I've been cone-free since 2009. My hair is in revolt!

[brave]

It seems to behave vastly differently on different types of hair. For mine it gave good definition and I actually had second day hair. It was very shiny and I think it enhanced the curls. I don't use it anymore since I'm still attempting cone-free (and finally succeeding!) but the cones coated my hair and kept moisture in well. Worth a try but definitely doesn't work for everyone!

[ratgirldjh]

Okay, so I bought a bottle of Pantene Ice Shine for $3.99. I figured what the heck, it really isn't much of an investment.

I've CO washed twice with it, and I must tell you the results are less than stunning on my curly hair.

I do not recommend using it. It has left my hair crunchy, dry and not inclined to clump. All in all, I will stick to my V05 or Suave.

Just my 2 cents.

Interesting! It is the only conditioner that has ever given me good results for CO washing! I think it is because of the lack of glycerine and protein - both of which build up on my hair the first wash.

I actually never knew I had wurly hair until I started CO with the Ice Shine!

[ratgirldjh]

It seems to behave vastly differently on different types of hair. For mine it gave good definition and I actually had second day hair. It was very shiny and I think it enhanced the curls. I don't use it anymore since I'm still attempting cone-free (and finally succeeding!) but the cones coated my hair and kept moisture in well. Worth a try but definitely doesn't work for everyone!

This is how it reacts with my hair. Although the cones don't seem to coat my hair really - it seems quite cleansing and in fact I am able to go much longer between washes (a week or more) than I could using soap or poo bars (every 3-5 days).

I am still shocked and suspicious about it though :p

[Cafe au Lait]

Pantene Ice, I finally found out, was the cause of my frizzy puffball hair last week. My hair does not like it!

[kitschy]

Interesting! It is the only conditioner that has ever given me good results for CO washing! I think it is because of the lack of glycerine and protein - both of which build up on my hair the first wash.

I actually never knew I had wurly hair until I started CO with the Ice Shine!

Like someone else said, "vastly different results on different hair types."

My hair is very curly - doesn't need any help in convincing it to wurl, it needs encouragement to clump or I get horrible frizz throughout the day. I think perhaps the "cleanness" of the Ice Shine is interfering in the clumpage.:bounce:

[mallorykay13]

So, I was using Suave TC for the longest time and was piddling along catching up with y'all and saw the post about the two preservatives that can cause hair to fall. Low and behold, this was my problem! Used a V05 conditioner today for the first time, no massive shed whilst fingercombing my hair. Magic I tells you. :thumbsup: :hifive:

[louzen]

So, I was using Suave TC for the longest time and was piddling along catching up with y'all and saw the post about the two preservatives that can cause hair to fall. Low and behold, this was my problem! Used a V05 conditioner today for the first time, no massive shed whilst fingercombing my hair. Magic I tells you. :thumbsup: :hifive:

Wow, that's amazing. I wonder what it is about those preservatives that causes hair to shed, and why those preservatives are in conditioner and not shampoo. I think this is a very interesting topic, since there are people who claim CO causes them to shed more, and there are people who say it causes them to shed less. Obviously there are many other variables at play here, but it would be interesting to get to the bottom of it! (Maybe we could start a thread for people to list out their ingredients of their condish and then state whether they shed more, less or the same) and then we could perform an analysis on the common ingredients :)

[louzen]

So, I just bought some Aloe vera gel (99.9% aloe vera, 0.01% water) from Amazon. I was thinking of applying it to my scalp after I wash my hair (while my hair is still wet). Does anyone else do this? Or do they apply it in a different way?

[mallorykay13]

Wow, that's amazing. I wonder what it is about those preservatives that causes hair to shed, and why those preservatives are in conditioner and not shampoo. I think this is a very interesting topic, since there are people who claim CO causes them to shed more, and there are people who say it causes them to shed less. Obviously there are many other variables at play here, but it would be interesting to get to the bottom of it! (Maybe we could start a thread for people to list out their ingredients of their condish and then state whether they shed more, less or the same) and then we could perform an analysis on the common ingredients :)

That would be both time consuming and awesome!

[cmg]

Some reading on the subject preservatives (parabenes) etc.:
http://www.creativeartistryfx.com/controversial%20ingredients%20in%20cosmetics.pdf

Disclaimer: I dont know who the author is. She seems to be a seller/manufacturer

/ CMG

[ratgirldjh]

Like someone else said, "vastly different results on different hair types."

My hair is very curly - doesn't need any help in convincing it to wurl, it needs encouragement to clump or I get horrible frizz throughout the day. I think perhaps the "cleanness" of the Ice Shine is interfering in the clumpage.:bounce:

That makes sense! :D If I can ever find a protein free VO5 that I am not sensitive to the fragrance of it might work well too.

[cmg]

Yes that definitively makes sense. Why would the hair clump together if there is no sebum left to make it sticky? Cleaning until squeqy clean isnt all that good, it seems.

/ CMG

[Suze2012]

So, I just bought some Aloe vera gel (99.9% aloe vera, 0.01% water) from Amazon. I was thinking of applying it to my scalp after I wash my hair (while my hair is still wet). Does anyone else do this? Or do they apply it in a different way?


I have that and I use it on wet hair and leave it to air dry and it helps with frizz.

I don't apply it to my scalp though.
Do you have a problem with your scalp which aloe might help with?
It is supposed to be good for the skin - but if you apply too much it might make your roots a little crunchy.

[louzen]

I have that and I use it on wet hair and leave it to air dry and it helps with frizz.

I don't apply it to my scalp though.
Do you have a problem with your scalp which aloe might help with?
It is supposed to be good for the skin - but if you apply too much it might make your roots a little crunchy.

Yes, I have a dry scalp so thought it might help. I applied a little too much though, and just as you said, my hair became very crunchy :lol:

[Ginbill]

I used White Rain for my first CO wash (trying VO5 as well) but I experienced way less shedding than when I was doing conventional shampoo and conditioning despite being gentle when doing so. I used to get a pretty decent amount of shedding in the shower.

[kittykat86]

Hi everyone. My name is Katie and I am thinking about starting CO. My hair has become a frizzy mess lately. I have been growing out my hair since April 2010 and I am just about 3 inches from waist. I have dry ends no matter what I do and my hair is very frizzy. I have always had straight hair but now I am thinking that I might have a slight wave due to the frizziness.

I am going to clarify my hair this weekend and use VO5 for another non-cone conditioner. Any other ideas that I should try?

[brave]

Hi everyone. My name is Katie and I am thinking about starting CO. My hair has become a frizzy mess lately. I have been growing out my hair since April 2010 and I am just about 3 inches from waist. I have dry ends no matter what I do and my hair is very frizzy. I have always had straight hair but now I am thinking that I might have a slight wave due to the frizziness.

I am going to clarify my hair this weekend and use VO5 for another non-cone conditioner. Any other ideas that I should try?

Discovering your natural texture (http://healthycurls.net/2011/01/06/quick-and-easy-steps-to-discovering-your-natural-texture/) <-- this is not how LHC does their hair typing, but it is both a good introduction to co-washing AND a good test of your curl potential. It may leave you a bit greasy but it will give you a good baseline to start from.

[kittykat86]

Discovering your natural texture (http://healthycurls.net/2011/01/06/quick-and-easy-steps-to-discovering-your-natural-texture/) <-- this is not how LHC does their hair typing, but it is both a good introduction to co-washing AND a good test of your curl potential. It may leave you a bit greasy but it will give you a good baseline to start from.


Thanks! I will try this tomorrow with my normal conditioner. It should be interesting.:D

[Suze2012]

Hi everyone. My name is Katie and I am thinking about starting CO. My hair has become a frizzy mess lately. I have been growing out my hair since April 2010 and I am just about 3 inches from waist. I have dry ends no matter what I do and my hair is very frizzy. I have always had straight hair but now I am thinking that I might have a slight wave due to the frizziness.

I am going to clarify my hair this weekend and use VO5 for another non-cone conditioner. Any other ideas that I should try?

Try ditching the towel and dry with 100& cotton t shirt or pillow case. Lots of people including me do this.

If you like the wave you could try scrunching with the t shirt and leave it to air dry to see what happens..or you could just leave it and see what it does so you can see how it behaves.

Do scrub your scalp with conditioner and do rinse well.
Aside from that - see how it goes..good luck! :)

[Suze2012]

Yes, I have a dry scalp so thought it might help. I applied a little too much though, and just as you said, my hair became very crunchy :lol:


Aw! That made me smile! :)

I use two squirts of the same stuff you use for the lengths of my hair so I would reckon you would need only about half a squirt of it for your scalp if not slightly less.

I think ..not sure though so do some reading on it but I think I have read that an apple cider vinegar rinse is good for a dry scalp. I have never done this before so I might be wrong here.
You could also try a very light oiling with coconut oil of your scalp overnight to see if that helps.

[louzen]

Aw! That made me smile! :)

I use two squirts of the same stuff you use for the lengths of my hair so I would reckon you would need only about half a squirt of it for your scalp if not slightly less.

I think ..not sure though so do some reading on it but I think I have read that an apple cider vinegar rinse is good for a dry scalp. I have never done this before so I might be wrong here.
You could also try a very light oiling with coconut oil of your scalp overnight to see if that helps.

Hi Suze2012, thanks for your advice. I've tried vinegar, but it made my scalp really dry. And I've tried many different oils (coconut, EVOO, almond, emu, jojoba) and left them on overnight, for 2 nights, for 3 nights but as soon as I wash it out, I'm back to square one. I'm still trying different things, but I'm starting to run out of options. I think it's reached a point where I just have to accept I can't fix it :shrug:

[afu]

Try ditching the towel and dry with 100& cotton t shirt or pillow case. Lots of people including me do this.

If you like the wave you could try scrunching with the t shirt and leave it to air dry to see what happens..or you could just leave it and see what it does so you can see how it behaves.

Do scrub your scalp with conditioner and do rinse well.
Aside from that - see how it goes..good luck! :)

Another good option is a PVA towel (also known as synthetic chamois), its is much more absorbant than using a tshirt but controls the frizz brilliantly

[kittykat86]

Try ditching the towel and dry with 100& cotton t shirt or pillow case. Lots of people including me do this.

If you like the wave you could try scrunching with the t shirt and leave it to air dry to see what happens..or you could just leave it and see what it does so you can see how it behaves.

Do scrub your scalp with conditioner and do rinse well.
Aside from that - see how it goes..good luck! :)

Well it worked. I used a t-shirt and slightly scrunched my hair and I have waves! It is still drying, but I am happy for now. I just hope the frizzies stay away.

[brave]

Another good option is a PVA towel (also known as synthetic chamois), its is much more absorbant than using a tshirt but controls the frizz brilliantly

I need to pick me up one of these, but I had trouble finding something labelled as such (to be fair I was at a freaky bargain center). They had chamois and microfiber but nothing labelled PVA. I'll check again at a real store.

[afu]

I need to pick me up one of these, but I had trouble finding something labelled as such (to be fair I was at a freaky bargain center). They had chamois and microfiber but nothing labelled PVA. I'll check again at a real store.

I got mine from Amazon, you are most likely to find them in car, camping or pet sections of shops! I always used to use a microfibre turban, the PVA is so much better

[cmg]

Oh right! I thought you meant a microfibre towel. I googled pva towel and realized it was something else. I have never seen towels like this, only makeup remover cloths. They are small of course and QUITE pricey. I would have to look for the towel types on the internet. I am using normal towels and sometimes microfibre ones (from the pet shop actually. It has little dogs on it :D

/ CMG

[afu]

Oh right! I thought you meant a microfibre towel. I googled pva towel and realized it was something else. I have never seen towels like this, only makeup remover cloths. They are small of course and QUITE pricey. I would have to look for the towel types on the internet. I am using normal towels and sometimes microfibre ones (from the pet shop actually. It has little dogs on it :D

/ CMG

I think mine cost me about £5. It's pretty small (appox Pillowcase size) but I find it ok because I don't need to trap my hair in it to dry it, I just give it a scrunch/squeeze and it sucks loads of water out

[cmg]

You would have to wet it though, before you can start sucking up any moisture with it, right?

/ CMG

[afu]

If you store then dry they go hard so yeah you have to dampen them a little, however you can store them damp to keep them supple and ready to use. Mine came in a plastic tube so i roll it back up and put it in there before it totally dries

[In2wishin]

Oh right! I thought you meant a microfibre towel. I googled pva towel and realized it was something else. I have never seen towels like this, only makeup remover cloths. They are small of course and QUITE pricey. I would have to look for the towel types on the internet. I am using normal towels and sometimes microfibre ones (from the pet shop actually. It has little dogs on it :D

/ CMG

Try your local automotive supply shop. These towels are sold there and are sometimes called man-made chamois. Just look for PVA or poly vinyl alcohol

[In2wishin]

Wow, that's amazing. I wonder what it is about those preservatives that causes hair to shed, and why those preservatives are in conditioner and not shampoo. I think this is a very interesting topic, since there are people who claim CO causes them to shed more, and there are people who say it causes them to shed less. Obviously there are many other variables at play here, but it would be interesting to get to the bottom of it! (Maybe we could start a thread for people to list out their ingredients of their condish and then state whether they shed more, less or the same) and then we could perform an analysis on the common ingredients :)

I did find something interesting:
"Methylisothiazolinone can only be used in items that are washed off as it can be a skin irritant when left for too long on skin's surface"
http://www.livestrong.com/article/104729-aussie-moist-shampoo-ingredients/#ixzz22Vh3HUtq

Another common preservative that releases formaldehyde is DMDM Hydantoin

[cmg]

If you store then dry they go hard so yeah you have to dampen them a little, however you can store them damp to keep them supple and ready to use. Mine came in a plastic tube so i roll it back up and put it in there before it totally dries

I recommend against that, unless you drench them in some preservative. They are prone to grow milldew pretty fast if kept moist. Mine are all spotted from this, even when I let them dry out between every use and wash them very strongly (sterile).

I have started to use alaun if I want to travel with them and keep them moist. No smell and no milldew.

/ CMG

[cmg]

I think mine cost me about £5. It's pretty small (appox Pillowcase size)
I paid about ten times as much and it is half the size of yours. I dont think this is something I will buy very soon again...

/ CMG

[afu]

I recommend against that, unless you drench them in some preservative. They are prone to grow milldew pretty fast if kept moist. Mine are all spotted from this, even when I let them dry out between every use and wash them very strongly (sterile).

I have started to use alaun if I want to travel with them and keep them moist. No smell and no milldew.

/ CMG

Thanks for the warning, the pack it came in actually says to store damp :s i'll be sure to keep an eye on it

[cmg]

Letting it dry out actually takes care of some of the bacterias. I supposte they say that you are supposed to store it damp only to keep it soft. The same goes for artificial washing sponges. They take a while to get soft.

/ CMG

[brave]

I did find something interesting:
"Methylisothiazolinone can only be used in items that are washed off as it can be a skin irritant when left for too long on skin's surface"
http://www.livestrong.com/article/104729-aussie-moist-shampoo-ingredients/#ixzz22Vh3HUtq

Another common preservative that releases formaldehyde is DMDM Hydantoin

That's good to know, I was leaving Suave in for a while.
I do see DMDM Hydantoin a lot, it's in a lot of gels.

[mallorykay13]

Is there a comprehensive list of bad hair ingredients out there?

[Amber_Maiden]

I'm back to COing. I wash once a week, so CO once a week. I use diluted shampoo on my scalp once a a month, or every 5 weeks.

[mallorykay13]

I'm back to COing. I wash once a week, so CO once a week. I use diluted shampoo on my scalp once a a month, or every 5 weeks.

Well Amber_Maiden, fancy seeing you here. :) :D

[louzen]

Is there a comprehensive list of bad hair ingredients out there?

I'm not sure about a comprehensive list, but I use the following links to help me understand what ingredients I should stay away from and which are safe to use:

Toxic chemical list : http://www.hallgold.com/toxic-chemical-ingredients-directory.htm

Ingredients Dictionary for haircare products: http://tightlycurly.com/ingredients/

List of proteins and silicones: http://www.untamedtresses.com/content/120-list-common-proteins-silicones.html

Cosmetic Ingredients Dictionary: http://www.cosmeticscop.com/cosmetic-ingredient-dictionary/

Do you know what's in your shampoo?: http://www.cherylsherbs.com/shampoo.htm

[Amber_Maiden]

Well Amber_Maiden, fancy seeing you here. :) :D

haha! :waving: Hi mallorykay13!

[afu]

Welcome back Amber_Maiden :) I envy you so much for your once per week washing, I can't get past 2 days :( I'm currently trying to stretch CO using WO washes in between, I'm hoping that in doing so my scalp will adjust better

[Amber_Maiden]

Welcome back Amber_Maiden :) I envy you so much for your once per week washing, I can't get past 2 days :( I'm currently trying to stretch CO using WO washes in between, I'm hoping that in doing so my scalp will adjust better

Do you wear your hair up most of the time? I wear my hair up all the time, so that helps me a bit. But Even on wash day, for me, my hair isn't greasy at the roots or anything like that. It's a bit weird...

[mallorykay13]

Do you wear your hair up most of the time? I wear my hair up all the time, so that helps me a bit. But Even on wash day, for me, my hair isn't greasy at the roots or anything like that. It's a bit weird...

Was your hair greasy(er) at some point? What changed?

[Amber_Maiden]

Was your hair greasy(er) at some point? What changed?

not since I was about 15-16.... And that was just hormones, I think. Now it takes about 3-4 weeks for my roots to get greasy. Kind of sucks, because that means I don't produce much sebum for my hair, I guess...

[mallorykay13]

not since I was about 15-16.... And that was just hormones, I think. Now it takes about 3-4 weeks for my roots to get greasy. Kind of sucks, because that means I don't produce much sebum for my hair, I guess...

Hmm, I guess I never really considered the repercussions of NOT having oily hair.

[In2wishin]

Is there a comprehensive list of bad hair ingredients out there?

That is a loaded question. There really isn't such a thing as a "bad" ingredient that is actually used in hair care products, just ingredients that aren't good for a particular person and their hair, or a particular purpose.

The best thing is to look up the ingredients for anything that is causing you problems to try and figure out what the troublemaker is.

[Amber_Maiden]

That is a loaded question. There really isn't such a thing as a "bad" ingredient that is actually used in hair care products, just ingredients that aren't good for a particular person and their hair, or a particular purpose.

The best thing is to look up the ingredients for anything that is causing you problems to try and figure out what the troublemaker is.

Exactly.
I always though cones were bad, but recently- after quitting them for over a year- it turned out my hair LOVES them.

Hate SLS though.

[mallorykay13]

That is a loaded question. There really isn't such a thing as a "bad" ingredient that is actually used in hair care products, just ingredients that aren't good for a particular person and their hair, or a particular purpose.

The best thing is to look up the ingredients for anything that is causing you problems to try and figure out what the troublemaker is.

Good point.

[brave]

Amber_Maiden, is your diluted shampoo SLS and it's just dilute enough that it doesn't bother you? Or is it coco betaine based?

I don't know how long it takes to get my scalp greasy. With shampoo bars and vinegar it was amazingly fast, but with CO I've never gone between washes long enough. Should experiment at some point.

[afu]

Yep I wear my hair up most of the time, I think the main culpret is my fine/thin hair which makes it look worse than probably if I had more hair! At least I know that I can get good results from CO washing every 2 days, so if experimenting with WO doesn't work out i've got a happy place to go back to

[Amber_Maiden]

Amber_Maiden, is your diluted shampoo SLS and it's just dilute enough that it doesn't bother you? Or is it coco betaine based?

I don't know how long it takes to get my scalp greasy. With shampoo bars and vinegar it was amazingly fast, but with CO I've never gone between washes long enough. Should experiment at some point.

I use this (http://www.maxgreenalchemy.com/item--Scalp-Rescue-Shampoo--MGASH.html) right now, diluted. Not sure what it's base is. It's not SLS based. I can't go near SLS- I even had to change my toothpaste!

Good luck with your experimenting! I plan on using shampoo bars after my shampoo is used up.


Yep I wear my hair up most of the time, I think the main culpret is my fine/thin hair which makes it look worse than probably if I had more hair! At least I know that I can get good results from CO washing every 2 days, so if experimenting with WO doesn't work out i've got a happy place to go back to

That might be it... I have pretty thick hair, so that could be why I can go so long without washing.

[brave]

I use this (http://www.maxgreenalchemy.com/item--Scalp-Rescue-Shampoo--MGASH.html) right now, diluted. Not sure what it's base is. It's not SLS based. I can't go near SLS- I even had to change my toothpaste!

Good luck with your experimenting! I plan on using shampoo bars after my shampoo is used up.



That might be it... I have pretty thick hair, so that could be why I can go so long without washing.

Shampoo bars didn't work out in the long run for me, but my hair is extremely dry and I hated the vinegar rinses. I think I remember you doing those anyway though so you might have better luck. I do miss the amazing smell.

I really wish I could find a solid conditioner that worked. It doesn't seem to exist yet. I have tried the chagrin valley butter bar and it was really just a more moisturizing soap, which is still too drying.

[afu]

brave have you tried estsy? there are a few solid conditioner bars on there, although i havn't tried them myself

[Suze2012]

Well it worked. I used a t-shirt and slightly scrunched my hair and I have waves! It is still drying, but I am happy for now. I just hope the frizzies stay away.



Yay! Excellent!
...I bet the frizzies didn't stay away though..but hope they did!
My hair is a lot less frizzy with co washing and I use aloe vera gel on wet hair to help tame frizz but it still gets me sometimes.
I've had a bad week with frizz though and think my hair is still recovering from using a coney co to see how my hair reacted and then ending up clarifying to get back to no cones.

I have figured out that it can take a while for hair to return to a more normal (better) state after an experiment gone a bit wrong so sometimes you just have to give it time and only try one thing different within a couple of weeks.

afu I'm quite interested in the synthetic chamois idea - tshirts don't seem to take that much water out and aren't very absorbent - better than a towel still though. Where do you get them from?

[afu]

afu I'm quite interested in the synthetic chamois idea - tshirts don't seem to take that much water out and aren't very absorbent - better than a towel still though. Where do you get them from?

I got mine from amazon but you may be able to find them in car or camping sections of shops

[Suze2012]

I got mine from amazon but you may be able to find them in car or camping sections of shops


Ah ha! We have a camping shop in town so I will take a look. Thanks! :)

[afu]

Ah ha! We have a camping shop in town so I will take a look. Thanks! :)

A lot of camping shops will only stock microfibre so be careful (I used to work for a big outdoors company!). The one I have is a synthetic chamois aimed for using on cars. i think some petshops also sell them

[Amber_Maiden]

Shampoo bars didn't work out in the long run for me, but my hair is extremely dry and I hated the vinegar rinses. I think I remember you doing those anyway though so you might have better luck. I do miss the amazing smell.

I really wish I could find a solid conditioner that worked. It doesn't seem to exist yet. I have tried the chagrin valley butter bar and it was really just a more moisturizing soap, which is still too drying.

I stopped doing vinegar rinses a month ago, and my hair doesn't seem to miss them :p

Hennasooq has some shampoo bars- I have the carrot one.

[afu]

I stopped doing vinegar rinses a month ago, and my hair doesn't seem to miss them :p

Hennasooq has some shampoo bars- I have the carrot one.

That carrot bar looks lovely (I just can't justify shipping it to the UK! and my blonde might turn orange), you may have inspired me to experiment with a bar...

[Amber_Maiden]

That carrot bar looks lovely (I just can't justify shipping it to the UK! and my blonde might turn orange), you may have inspired me to experiment with a bar...

I don't think the carrot bar has enough carrots in it to turn your hair orange :p And it's a white bar.

[Alembic]

I think I'm going to see if I can transition to cowashing. I've tried it before once or twice but didn't leave the conditioner in very long - this time I'll let the surfactants have a chance to actually clean my hair and see how that goes.

[afu]

I don't think the carrot bar has enough carrots in it to turn your hair orange :p And it's a white bar.

ooh really, I might consider shipping one over if i can't find a decent one in the UK

[brave]

brave have you tried estsy? there are a few solid conditioner bars on there, although i havn't tried them myself

I tried one off there and it was pretty dismal. I should look again, although I'm not sure how possible it is as a product.

[ratgirldjh]

I think I have to give up on CO washing. Today I went to wash and after I finished rinsing I had a huge WAD of hair fall out. This has never happened to me before with any other method.

I ended up panicking because my hair kept shedding and so I washed the conditioner off my scalp (in case some was left) which was burning a bit too. Then I still had shedding so I did a clay mask and when I rinsed it off the shedding stopped. Whew.

I think I have become sensitive to having conditioner on my scalp.

I enjoyed it while it lasted though - shiny, soft, wavy hair... now I'm back to soap or clay and my hair is huge again... I guess I got all the cones out.

[ratgirldjh]

double post - why does this keep happening? I only hit post once!

[Tisiloves]

double post - why does this keep happening? I only hit post once!

Have you appeased the computer gremlins recently?

[lole18]

i never tried CO washing before.. because conditioning my ends only make my hair fall more than usual! and i have massive shedding as it is so i dont need that lol :) i was wondering how can this work? do u expereince shedding or is it just me?

[Amber_Maiden]

i never tried CO washing before.. because conditioning my ends only make my hair fall more than usual! and i have massive shedding as it is so i dont need that lol :) i was wondering how can this work? do u expereince shedding or is it just me?

Nope, I don't shed more than usual.

[brave]

Some people experience more shedding, some experience less, some experience no change. Some of it could be due to the aforementioned preservatives in some of the more common cone-free conditioners (Suave, see Afu's posts a few pages back) and some might be due to increased root manipulation -- you do a lot more scalp scrubbing than you do with normal S&C. Some of it might just be this technique doesn't work for everyone. I can't really speak one way or the other, since I haven't been simply S&C'd for about 5/6 years.

I am pretty happy. This is probably more info for the wavy/wurly thread, but I found a better way of rejuvenating second day waves -- washcloth method. (http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/2/120130-2nd-day-hair-my-washcloth-method.html) Not to be confused with the WO method, basically consists of scrunching hair with wet washcloth and scrunching in product (instead of spraying water or applying to dry hair). Worked well and I got a lot of wurl definition back.

[mallorykay13]

Guys, I think I am leaving this thread/method of washing hair. I haven't gotten the shedding to stop for anything, and although it leaves my hair feeling soft, it also leaves my hair feeling gunky 50&#37; of the time. I am going back to my old SLS/Cone S/C ways, stretching washes and watering down shampoos... Wish me luck, although I will be lurking. :)

[kittykat86]

Yay! Excellent!
...I bet the frizzies didn't stay away though..but hope they did!
My hair is a lot less frizzy with co washing and I use aloe vera gel on wet hair to help tame frizz but it still gets me sometimes.
I've had a bad week with frizz though and think my hair is still recovering from using a coney co to see how my hair reacted and then ending up clarifying to get back to no cones.

I have figured out that it can take a while for hair to return to a more normal (better) state after an experiment gone a bit wrong so sometimes you just have to give it time and only try one thing different within a couple of weeks.

afu I'm quite interested in the synthetic chamois idea - tshirts don't seem to take that much water out and aren't very absorbent - better than a towel still though. Where do you get them from?

Oh the frizzies came back worse than ever. I made kimberlily's defrizz spray and it helps a little. I actually used a really thick conditioner the first time I COed so I clarified and COed again with VO5 and my hair was happy. My hair seems thicker with this than with S&C.:D

[Suze2012]

KittyKat
I think most people find that thinner and cheaper conditioners work much better for co washing.

I use a really cheap store own brand and my hair loves it - to the point where I have tried a thicker silicone free conditioner as a rinse out one after co-ing but my hair doesn't even like that one!

Kimberley's de-frizz spray? I must have missed that. I'd be interested in giving it a go. What goes into it?
Aloe Vera Gel does seem to mostly work for me but on occasion I will still get the frizzies!

[YumiYume]

Hi! I've been CO for a while and I like how my hair feel after. I first water-wash, then a light Conditioner to clean, rince and a caring conditioner until the rest of my shower i done. I rarely comb it and strech my washes so my shower-shedding is really creapy-big
Free from drying alcohol, cones and SLS, and so on

But, this thread is so long so Im really sorry for asking something you probobly alredy answered to, but I have to use stuff that goes away with that and water without build up and I dont know anything about it

1: Can you do ACV-rinses?
2: Can you use any protective product like oil or what do you use?
3: Can you use clear alovera and honey that is required mixing ingridients for SMT?

[Dragon Faery]

Hi Suze2012, thanks for your advice. I've tried vinegar, but it made my scalp really dry. And I've tried many different oils (coconut, EVOO, almond, emu, jojoba) and left them on overnight, for 2 nights, for 3 nights but as soon as I wash it out, I'm back to square one. I'm still trying different things, but I'm starting to run out of options. I think it's reached a point where I just have to accept I can't fix it :shrug:

My scalp is quite dry and flake-prone, as well. When I'm not lazy, I apply castor, almond, or avocado oil directly to my scalp immediately after I get out of the shower. If I'm super-dry or have problem areas, I'll follow that up with a bit of shea butter to further seal the moisture in. And I have to re-oil every other day or so. And whether I oil or not, I have to wash every 3-4 days. Also, I apply my secondary conditioner directly to my scalp, just like I do the cleansing one.

My hair doesn't like ACV rinses; the smell lingers forever. :( I'm trying a supplement with a bit of zinc to see if thaat helps with the dryness, as I have dry skin in general. But it's too soon to tell if it's making a difference.


Hi! I've been CO for a while and I like how my hair feel after. I first water-wash, then a light Conditioner to clean, rince and a caring conditioner until the rest of my shower i done. I rarely comb it and strech my washes so my shower-shedding is really creapy-big
Free from drying alcohol, cones and SLS, and so on

But, this thread is so long so Im really sorry for asking something you probobly alredy answered to, but I have to use stuff that goes away with that and water without build up and I dont know anything about it

1: Can you do ACV-rinses?
2: Can you use any protective product like oil or what do you use?
3: Can you use clear alovera and honey that is required mixing ingridients for SMT?

Not a problem, this thread is HUGE and currently growing so fast it's really hard to keep up. :)
1. A lot of people follow up a CO wash with an ACV rinse. If your hair likes those, go for it!
2. I oil on pretty wet hair right after washing to seal in moisture. A lot of people use leave-in conditioners, or reapply their washing conditioner as a leave-in. A lot of curlies follow up with a gel of some kind, or a defrizzing spray, or almost anything, really. If you want to avoid buildup you have to be a little more choosey about what you use, unless you don't mind clarifying every so often.
3. People experiment a lot with adding things in to their conditioners, but I haven't tried it myself. If your hair likes those things, there is no reason not to try it. The worst that can happen is having to wash it out again. :) Aloe vera gel is often used as a leave-in, as well.

It's all about finding what works for you. :)

[YumiYume]

Dragon Faery: thank you for your answer :)!, I have want to try those things a long time but never did, most economical reasons, and then I got unsure if I it would be ok

I will save your answer to a dokument so I can look at it later this month when I can buy stuff, thanks again :)

[PetuniaBlossom]

I've been doing CO for about two months now. My hair is noticeably softer, especially the dry, frizzy/split ends. I never do it the same way twice, though. Sometimes I follow with a white vinegar rinse, sometimes I don't. Sometimes I use the same conditioner for both steps, sometimes I switch. Occasionally I do the first conditioner 'wash' and rinse it out right away, then leave the second one in and clipped up whilst doing the rest of my showerly duties - other times I reverse the order of leaving in and rinsing right away. Sometimes I add a tiny bit of baby (mineral) oil to the last few inches right after the vinegar rinse. Sometimes I soak in coconut oil all night before I CO, sometimes just EVOO for an hour before I CO. Anyway, you get the idea. For me, the fun is trying it a different way each time. Have I found the one single way that gives me predictable "perfection" each time? No. But it's all good. My hair is so grateful to have escaped the harsh stripping of shampoos that even my 'bad' days are better than were the 'good' days when I shampooed. CO rules!

[kittykat86]

KittyKat
I think most people find that thinner and cheaper conditioners work much better for co washing.

I use a really cheap store own brand and my hair loves it - to the point where I have tried a thicker silicone free conditioner as a rinse out one after co-ing but my hair doesn't even like that one!

Kimberley's de-frizz spray? I must have missed that. I'd be interested in giving it a go. What goes into it?
Aloe Vera Gel does seem to mostly work for me but on occasion I will still get the frizzies!


I found it here on LHC. I used clear aloe vera gel, jojoba oil and essential oil. I don't know how the link the thread though.:confused:

[ratgirldjh]

Have you appeased the computer gremlins recently?

No! But It was because I had Windows 7 on my computer and usually have Linux Mint and so today I put the newest version of Mint on and now MUCH better! yay!

Also I wanted to post here that my co-wash yesterday that made me lose a glob of hair was likely due to user error. :p

I was thinking about it and realized that I was in a super hurry and really stressed out and frustrated and that I just scrubbed my scalp really hard with my fingers trying to hurry up and get all the conditioner out. Also I probably put too much directly on my scalp and so I 'needed' to scrub more.

So yesterday I had 'clarified' with clay and today my hair was kind of stripped feeling and fly away and I decided to try again.

And NO hair loss. Of course I was back to my normal gentle hair wash technique today.

So perhaps anyone having hair loss from CO washing - could it be you are scrubbing your scalp too hard? The sliperiness of the conditioner really seems to make it easy to scrub too hard for me. And I figured out I really don't need to put it directly on my scalp - it will get there anyway...

Hopefully I can still do CO washing because my hair looks amazing today :)

Yesterday was just one of those days :poop: lol

[jojo89]

I just picked up the "As I Am Coconut CoWash" cleansing conditioner from Sally's. It's new so it was on sale for $6.99. On their website it got 5 stars out of 25 reviews so I am assuming it is good. Has anybody tried this? I can't wait to try it. I really hope I like it!

[Dragon Faery]

Dragon Faery: thank you for your answer :)!, I have want to try those things a long time but never did, most economical reasons, and then I got unsure if I it would be ok

I will save your answer to a dokument so I can look at it later this month when I can buy stuff, thanks again :)

You're welcome! Glad to be of service! :)

[afu]

have any CO washers got any experience with shampoo bars and how they compare to CO, are they a lot more stripping for example (veggie oil based bars, no SLS, cones or protein). I LOVE CO and it has pretty much saved my hair, but bars might be a way for me to stear clear of some of the preservatives I like to avoid

[kittykat86]

Can anyone recommend a good second conditioner for CO. My hair is dry on the ends and Sauve makes my hair fall out :(

[afu]

Can anyone recommend a good second conditioner for CO. My hair is dry on the ends and Sauve makes my hair fall out :(

My personal recommendation would be to just use your normal wash conditioner, but leave it in the lengths instead of washing out. And/or pre-oil the lengths with your favourite oil before washing. If I pre-oil with sweet almond I can get away with just COing my scalp and thats all

[kittykat86]

My personal recommendation would be to just use your normal wash conditioner, but leave it in the lengths instead of washing out. And/or pre-oil the lengths with your favourite oil before washing. If I pre-oil with sweet almond I can get away with just COing my scalp and thats all

Thanks. I will have to try that and would you know it, I just bought some Sweet Almond Oil. Do you oil just the ends or the entire length?

[afu]

Thanks. I will have to try that and would you know it, I just bought some Sweet Almond Oil. Do you oil just the ends or the entire length?

You'll need to experiment a bit and see what works for you, but what i do is i concentrate it/start at the ends and work my way up. So the whole length gets the oiling but mostly at the ends. Depending on how much you put on you might still want to condition your lengths to remove any excess oil but i don't usually need to

[cmg]

I find the manufacturers recomendations quite useful when it comes to the shampoo bars. Those who are recomended for dry hair are suitable for that, those who are recomended for oily hair are more drying and so on. I have only tried a few brands, like Nectar and Lush. In general they seem milder than any shampoo, similar to co-washing. I am alternating cowashing with some bar every ten washes or so (mostly using them while travelling).

/ CMG

[ratgirldjh]

I just picked up the "As I Am Coconut CoWash" cleansing conditioner from Sally's. It's new so it was on sale for $6.99. On their website it got 5 stars out of 25 reviews so I am assuming it is good. Has anybody tried this? I can't wait to try it. I really hope I like it!

Wow - it is both protein and glycerine free!!! What is the smell like? I didn't notice fragrance in it... does it have added fragrance?

[afu]

I find the manufacturers recomendations quite useful when it comes to the shampoo bars. Those who are recomended for dry hair are suitable for that, those who are recomended for oily hair are more drying and so on. I have only tried a few brands, like Nectar and Lush. In general they seem milder than any shampoo, similar to co-washing. I am alternating cowashing with some bar every ten washes or so (mostly using them while travelling).

/ CMG

Thanks CMG :) I'm really hoping for a result similar to CO washing, I got one for my SO to take travelling too so hopefully they will suit at least one of us, if not im sure they will work wonderfully for a bodywash

[jojo89]

Wow - it is both protein and glycerine free!!! What is the smell like? I didn't notice fragrance in it... does it have added fragrance?

To me, the fragrance was minimal and by the time I was ready to wash it out, there was no smell.

[Simone_Fatale]

I'm planning on going CO, or alternating shampooing once a week with CO. My hair has always been a bit on the dry side and no matter how gentle the shampoo is, my hair is a frizzy mess, especially on the first day. I just hope it won't go too greasy or limp.

[CurlyCap]

Ew.

Just co-washed with Trader Joe's Refresh. That stuff was almost clarifying. Even washing again with an oil-based conditioner (Yes to Carrots) couldn't fix the crazy. Never again.

I admit, I bought it because it smelled amazing. Sigh.

[Tisiloves]

Ew.

Just co-washed with Trader Joe's Refresh. That stuff was almost clarifying. Even washing again with an oil-based conditioner (Yes to Carrots) couldn't fix the crazy. Never again.

I admit, I bought it because it smelled amazing. Sigh.

Cut it with something maybe? I bought the Mint original source condish, but I can't use it straight because I can't tolerate that much menthol on my scalp, so I'm putting about 8tbsp/litre in my cheapo supermarket stuff. Slight minty smell/tingle, no icy-fire scalp.

[louzen]

have any CO washers got any experience with shampoo bars and how they compare to CO, are they a lot more stripping for example (veggie oil based bars, no SLS, cones or protein). I LOVE CO and it has pretty much saved my hair, but bars might be a way for me to stear clear of some of the preservatives I like to avoid

Afu, you got me really intrigued now about shampoo bars :) I did some searching and this coconut milk shampoo bar from Chagrin Valley looks and sounds divine http://www.chagrinvalleysoapandsalve.com/products/details/48/49/coconut-milk-shampoo. They also sell a conditioning shampoo bar. I'm really impressed with the natural ingredients list.

Shame we haven't got a similar supplier in the UK :(

[Amber_Maiden]

Ew.

Just co-washed with Trader Joe's Refresh. That stuff was almost clarifying. Even washing again with an oil-based conditioner (Yes to Carrots) couldn't fix the crazy. Never again.

I admit, I bought it because it smelled amazing. Sigh.

Use it to shave your legs.:p

[afu]

louzen I managed to buy my bars from ebay (havn't arrived yet so can't report back yet), there is also a UK based etsy seller but their shop is currently on holiday. I did find one promising looking poo bar on etsy in the UK but with the shipping it ends up pretty expensive and when I tried to enquire more about the ingredients they didn't give straight answers (they say they are all natural etc but i'll only trust an ingredients list which they won't provide). I think there are a couple on etsy which contain protein, if your hair doesn't mind protein might be worth a try. I can give you the link to the ebay shop if you would like

[louzen]

louzen I managed to buy my bars from ebay (havn't arrived yet so can't report back yet), there is also a UK based etsy seller but their shop is currently on holiday. I did find one promising looking poo bar on etsy in the UK but with the shipping it ends up pretty expensive and when I tried to enquire more about the ingredients they didn't give straight answers (they say they are all natural etc but i'll only trust an ingredients list which they won't provide). I think there are a couple on etsy which contain protein, if your hair doesn't mind protein might be worth a try. I can give you the link to the ebay shop if you would like

Hi afu, if you have the ebay link that would be great, thanks :) Yes, I would get very suspicious too if a company didn't provide an ingredients list. That tells me they have something to hide!

[afu]

This (http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Funky-Soap/Handmade-Shampoo-Bars-/_i.html?_fsub=2725122012&_sid=1078622762&_trksid=p4634.c0.m322) is where I got mine Louzen, I got the aloe and mandarin bar, kind of wish i'd ordered a conditioning citrus one too because it contains more oils and butters, but thought i'd start with something basic and work from there

[louzen]

This (http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Funky-Soap/Handmade-Shampoo-Bars-/_i.html?_fsub=2725122012&_sid=1078622762&_trksid=p4634.c0.m322) is where I got mine Louzen, I got the aloe and mandarin bar, kind of wish i'd ordered a conditioning citrus one too because it contains more oils and butters, but thought i'd start with something basic and work from there

Many Thanks for the link. What a great ebayer! I'll definitely be purchasing some soap for my body and maybe start using as part of a CWC.. (or even just shampoo if my scalp likes them) :)

ETA: Let us know if they work well for you :)

[afu]

I will definitly update you :) I'm going to clarify tonight for a clean slate and they should have arrived by my next wash

[kittykat86]

So I think my scalp is rebelling against COing. I have been COing for 5 days and my hair feels like a grease ball. I am rinsing really well and I am not over-oiling the ends, so I don't know what is going on. My hair feels clean after my shower and then is greasy by the end of the day. I think my scalp is just adjusting but I am not sure. :(

[CurlyCap]

Ew.

Just co-washed with Trader Joe's Refresh. That stuff was almost clarifying. Even washing again with an oil-based conditioner (Yes to Carrots) couldn't fix the crazy. Never again.

I admit, I bought it because it smelled amazing. Sigh.

Ultimate Product Revenge:

My hair has looked FANTASTIC all day.

Sigh. The conditioner feels like crap but makes my hair look good. Grrrrrrrrr.

[cmg]

Sigh. The conditioner feels like crap but makes my hair look good. Grrrrrrrrr.
Same here. Not much luck trying out products that smell good and feel nice. I usually have to revert to the same old stuff I use.

/ CMG

[ratgirldjh]

I might have to try it! Thanks!


To me, the fragrance was minimal and by the time I was ready to wash it out, there was no smell.

[jojo89]

No problem :)

[Kayla Nyx]

I tried CO washing with V05 conditioner, but after a week I was shedding so much hair! After showers I comb out my hair, and with each stroke of the comb, I was pulling at least 6x the normal amount off the comb. I had to stop and go back to diluted shampoo ): I dont know what I was doing wrong or why my hair was misbehaving.

[rena]

Can I ask all the long-haired COers how they manage? Still fairly short right now, so it's pretty easy, but I've been wondering if I could still CO wash with success once I become a longhair too. I'm very curious, is it more difficult the longer you are? How do you make it work?

[afu]

I really don't see how CO would cause a problem with length, the part that needs cleaning is the scalp area which stays pretty constant. I pre-oil every few washes and i find that i don't even need conditioner on my lengths anymore, i just let ir run through from the scalp when rinsing. Also if you dilute your conditioner it will go further, I have a 750ml bottle of conditioner which is still over half full and i've been using it for 4 months (usually every 2 days).

With the sheddding issue I think its a very personal thing, I get a lot less shedding but major loss on WO :/ maybe try using your conditioner diluted and check the ingredients, some preservatives can irritate the scalp

[louzen]

maybe try using your conditioner diluted and check the ingredients, some preservatives can irritate the scalp

@Kayla Nyx I would second this - try and find a conditioner that doesn't have controversial preservatives such as parabens and methylisothiazolinone which is a known skin irritant.

Also, are you leaving the condish on your scalp for a long time? If you are sensitive to any of the ingredients/preservatives then this could be exacerbating the issue.

[GRU]

Can I ask all the long-haired COers how they manage? Still fairly short right now, so it's pretty easy, but I've been wondering if I could still CO wash with success once I become a longhair too. I'm very curious, is it more difficult the longer you are? How do you make it work?

Not sure what you consider a "longhair" or not, but I've been CO-washing for 2.5 years now. It's not really any different from shampooing, other than your hair and scalp aren't all pissed off afterward.

[louzen]

So my Everyday Shea Conditioner and detangler for babies arrived today which I was thrilled about, until I doubled checked the ingredients list and found glucose in there. Apparently glucose is suspected of causing skin or sense organ toxicity.

This quote on Glucose from tightlycurly.com really freaked me out:


Glucose
Caution
Glucose occurs naturally in blood, but is also found in fruit and corn. It's sweeter than table sugar, and is used as an energy source for plants and animals. It's often used to sweeten food. According to Winter [pg 257], those who work frequently with Glucose such as candy-makers experience their fingernails getting loose, and sometimes even falling off (!). Because of this, I'm putting Glucose as a caution. —T

Looks like I'm going to be just using this for my ends now :rolleyes:

[In2wishin]

Not sure what you consider a "longhair" or not, but I've been CO-washing for 2.5 years now. It's not really any different from shampooing, other than your hair and scalp aren't all pissed off afterward.

You know GRU, I can always count on you to get to the essence of the subject at hand :p

[EndlessSunshine]

Glucose is sugar. Like I check my blood Glucose six times a day.Not sure what problems it would cause on hair or skin. Fruit, starchy veggies, grains, dairy, and legumes all contain carbohydrates that convert into glucose. Glucose is a monosaccharide and all "sugars" can be broken down into this from what I can understand. So you have probably already put some form of glucose on your hair and skin.

[louzen]

Glucose is sugar. Like I check my blood Glucose six times a day.Not sure what problems it would cause on hair or skin. Fruit, starchy veggies, grains, dairy, and legumes all contain carbohydrates that convert into glucose. Glucose is a monosaccharide and all "sugars" can be broken down into this from what I can understand. So you have probably already put some form of glucose on your hair and skin.

Yes, my thoughts too. Unsure why it's getting such a bad rap.

ETA: Got my source of information from these links:

http://www.goodguide.com/ingredients/115890-glucose?category_id=152782-hair-care
http://tightlycurly.com/ingredients/

[Tisiloves]

Yes, my thoughts too. Unsure why it's getting such a bad rap.

ETA: Got my source of information from these links:

http://www.goodguide.com/ingredients/115890-glucose?category_id=152782-hair-care
http://tightlycurly.com/ingredients/

I think they're being over cautious and ignoring the fact that candy makers also handle a ton of other thing including citric acid power, pineapple powder, various stabilisers, etc.

[EndlessSunshine]

If your seriously worried about Glucose, use oils and egg washes. Vinegar is free of carbs, salts, unsweetened teas....stay away from honey. lol Watch out for that Dihydrogen Oxide! I hear everyone who has ever used that has died....

[GRU]

You know GRU, I can always count on you to get to the essence of the subject at hand :p

:lol: When people comment on the fact that I don't drink alcohol, my response to them is along the lines of, "Would you really want me to ever get EVEN MORE uninhibited than I already am????" :D

[In2wishin]

If your seriously worried about Glucose, use oils and egg washes. Vinegar is free of carbs, salts, unsweetened teas....stay away from honey. lol Watch out for that Dihydrogen Oxide! I hear everyone who has ever used that has died....

:rollin:


:lol: When people comment on the fact that I don't drink alcohol, my response to them is along the lines of, "Would you really want me to ever get EVEN MORE uninhibited than I already am????" :D

You all likkered up definitely is a scary thought :shudder:

[GRU]

You all likkered up definitely is a scary thought shudder:

I know, right? :scared:

[In2wishin]

I have been CO washing for 3 weeks now and I am so happy with it! I did trim off about 3" of the super thin ends so my formerly almost-hip hair is now BSL when wet and straight but APL when dry. The waves are really tighter than they were. I'll have a better idea when we get out of the heat and humidity of summer.

I am very sad about the loss of length. Two years ago I had a major shed caused by a high fever (1/3 of my thickness) and my hair just started looking too thin and shaggy. I have been gradually trimming over the last year or so and probably have one more 2" or so trim to do to get rid of the last of the shaggy ends. I am really happy with the condition of my hair. I guess benign neglect is good for it :D

[Suze2012]

Has anyone found that as they go on with co washing they need to use less condish for the actual cleansing part and more in the way of a rinse out or have ended up using their condish as a leave in?

My hair is seeming dryer. I put some condish in as a leave in today - was ok ish but not great.

It hasn't behaved since I stupidly tried an old coney condish which it didn't like and then clarified it. :(

[rena]

Not sure what you consider a "longhair" or not, but I've been CO-washing for 2.5 years now. It's not really any different from shampooing, other than your hair and scalp aren't all pissed off afterward.

You're a good example of what I meant by a longhair GRU. Thanks for answering my question :flower:.

[GRU]

You're a good example of what I meant by a longhair GRU. Thanks for answering my question :flower:.

Yay! Happy to have been of help! :)

[cmg]

You guys are so funny :p

/ CMG

[Dragon Faery]

Has anyone found that as they go on with co washing they need to use less condish for the actual cleansing part and more in the way of a rinse out or have ended up using their condish as a leave in?

My hair is seeming dryer. I put some condish in as a leave in today - was ok ish but not great.

It hasn't behaved since I stupidly tried an old coney condish which it didn't like and then clarified it. :(

With certain conditioners, my hair gets slowly drier, too. Others make my hair too moisturized over an extended period of time. I'm still figuring out which ones do what to my hair over time, but the last time I clarified my hair didn't recover until I did a series of deep treatments before every wash for about 4 washes.

So far the only thing I can say for sure is this: V05 Kiwi Lime Squeeze is great for hitting the reset button on my hair, but if I use it more than once in a row it starts to dry me out too much.

Try a different, slightly thicker conditioner and/or several deep treatments and see if that helps?

[Tota]

Hi, I just wanted to come by and say that CO-washing rocks! :rockerdud

I started CO-ing in January 2012 and I never looked back. It took some time to adjust and for me to find good conditioners (if you're in EU I highly reccommend Alverde natural cosmetics brand - it's vegan, not tested on animals, no silicones and parabens, and very affordable) but now I'm on cloud number nine ;)

All my scalp issues are gone (pimples, allergies, grease, flakes, itching). My hair doesn't get split ends as fast as it did and my hair looks much thicker than it did.

So I just want to thank all of you who post here. If it wasn't for this thread, I would probably stll be a highly sensitive scalp person ;)

[Alexblue]

Hello Tota! Couldn't agree more :-)

[louzen]

Hi all, I would love to know your input on this

I went to see a 'hair expert' who said he didn't like the idea of CO washing. He said that conditioners leave chemical residues behind on the hair and scalp and that his concern with co washing is the possibility of build-up on the scalp, and the build-up would be quite huge over a long period of time, blocking hair follicles.

Now, I disagree. I mean *all* products will build up on our scalp over time right? Even shampoo. As long as you rinse out properly, I don't see conditioner building up on your scalp any more than shampoo (unless you used cones perhaps).

What are your thoughts?

[afu]

louzen my resonse to that is that his thoughts are too general - it totally depends on ingredients - not all shampoos or conditioners were created equal! and at the same time to two people are exactly the same either. Anything has the potential to build up on the scalp, even natural sebum, a lot of it is to do with the wash technique as well not just the product

[Neecola]

I can only speak from my own experience, Louzen, but I have found the opposite to be true. Before COing, I used a sulfate-free shampoo (and way before that, a sulfate shampoo) daily and I can honestly say that I had more scalp buildup then and that my hair would be greasy at the roots by the end of the day. CO has changed that completely! My scalp has never felt so healthy and I can actually stretch washes now.

[mduggan]

Has anyone found that as they go on with co washing they need to use less condish for the actual cleansing part and more in the way of a rinse out or have ended up using their condish as a leave in?

My hair is seeming dryer. I put some condish in as a leave in today - was ok ish but not great.

It hasn't behaved since I stupidly tried an old coney condish which it didn't like and then clarified it. :(

Suze,

the first time I did a CO wash I think I used a third of the bottle. Now I don't need nearly as much to wash, and it doesn't have to stay on as long. I have also started using my conditioner as a leave-in, and my hair feels great!

(2.5 months with CO washing.... also use Castor oil 1-2 times a week with a SMT follow up)

[Cafe au Lait]

I may have to give up CO washing. :(

I am just shedding SO MUCH. I've tried different conditioners, different methods.. But I am losing big chunks. And I saw this morning that the crown of my head is thinning noticeably.

I don't know what to do now.. CO was so good for my curls. I just don't know what I'm going to do next. Should I still use some as a leave-in? Should I still use it on my length?

This is actually making me distressed!

[Amber_Maiden]

Did my weekly co-wash this morning. Had oiled my hair all week, and used olive oil on my hair last night- so this morning I applied Aussie 3MM for about 40min. I then washed it out, and applied a mask by L'orea (http://www.lorealparis.ca/haircare/hair-expertise/re-nutrition/deep-moisture-mask.aspx)l, and used that twice. Applied some leave in after letting it dry a bit for 30min.

[Amanah]

I may have to give up CO washing

you could try using shampoo once per week, and then co washing other times.

you also could try scalp messages with a bit of jojoba oil to loosen up any build up on your scalp before you wash/cowash.

what products did you use before you began co washing?

[Tisiloves]

I may have to give up CO washing. :(


If it's just your scalp hating it maybe you could scalp wash with shampoo and CO wash your length.

[louzen]

I may have to give up CO washing. :(

I am just shedding SO MUCH. I've tried different conditioners, different methods.. But I am losing big chunks. And I saw this morning that the crown of my head is thinning noticeably.

I don't know what to do now.. CO was so good for my curls. I just don't know what I'm going to do next. Should I still use some as a leave-in? Should I still use it on my length?

This is actually making me distressed!

Hi Cafe au Lait

Do you still get shedding with normal shampoo and condition? Or just conditioner on its own? I think this is a case of listening to your body and using whatever method that doesn't cause an increase in shedding for you. You can still put conditioner on your ends, which won't effect your scalp.

[Cafe au Lait]

I can try shampooing the scalp and conditioning the length.. If I shampoo my scalp, and I apply the conditioner while the shampoo is on, it will keep it away from my scalp right?

Previous to CO I was alternating shampooing with a Lush bar and a no sulphate shampoo. The past week big balls of hair have been coming out, and this has never happened to me before!

I'm bummed it's not going to work.. Otherwise my hair looks and feels great, the best it has in years!

[ratgirldjh]

Well after my last co-wash my hair ended up limp. I left it alone for a few days and then today I decided to clarify with baking soda and try again. It is still drying so I hope it worked.

I think last time I didn't rinse enough since I had the shed from scrubbing my scalp so much the time before. This time I rinsed really well but scrubbed my scalp very gently. I also started from the ends of my hair up with the conditioner so I didn't get so much on my scalp so there wouldn't be so much to get off.

Sigh. The way it has usually gone for me with CO washing is that the first couple of times I would have great hair and then I could never get that again. Hope this isn't happening again.

[afu]

I tried a shampoo bar today for the first time... and my hair ended up so strawlike and tangly I had to condition twice in the shower and use a load of it as leave in too :( I've not had tangly hair since, well since early in the year before CO, with CO I hardly need any detangling at all, ever!! I don't know if it was just my hair rebelling after being clarified the day before so i won't give up just yet - but it reminds me exactly why I love CO!

[In2wishin]

I tried a shampoo bar today for the first time... and my hair ended up so strawlike and tangly I had to condition twice in the shower and use a load of it as leave in too :( I've not had tangly hair since, well since early in the year before CO, with CO I hardly need any detangling at all, ever!! I don't know if it was just my hair rebelling after being clarified the day before so i won't give up just yet - but it reminds me exactly why I love CO!

Did you do an acid rinse after? Poo bars are saponified oils just like any other soap (just different oils) so they end up quite alkaline.

[afu]

Did you do an acid rinse after? Poo bars are saponified oils just like any other soap (just different oils) so they end up quite alkaline.

Yep, i did my usual lemon rinse :( I'm hoping things will improve, i'll be back on CO for a few days now while I visit SO but will have another bar attempt next week

[louzen]

I can try shampooing the scalp and conditioning the length.. If I shampoo my scalp, and I apply the conditioner while the shampoo is on, it will keep it away from my scalp right?

Previous to CO I was alternating shampooing with a Lush bar and a no sulphate shampoo. The past week big balls of hair have been coming out, and this has never happened to me before!

I'm bummed it's not going to work.. Otherwise my hair looks and feels great, the best it has in years!

See if shampooing the scalp solves the shedding issue for you. Coat your ends in conditioner to protect them from the shampoo when you use it on your scalp. Rinse the shampoo out from your hair, then apply conditioner again to your ends and either rinse out or leave in (as your preference).

Or you could try some other alternatives like shampoo, rinse, condition (scalp and hair), or CWC where you condition the scalp/hair (don't rinse out), then apply shampoo (rinse out), then condition (either your scalp again, or just the ends).

I hope this resolves for you :flower: Let me know how it goes..

[louzen]

I tried a shampoo bar today for the first time... and my hair ended up so strawlike and tangly I had to condition twice in the shower and use a load of it as leave in too :( I've not had tangly hair since, well since early in the year before CO, with CO I hardly need any detangling at all, ever!! I don't know if it was just my hair rebelling after being clarified the day before so i won't give up just yet - but it reminds me exactly why I love CO!

Ah, that's a shame :( I really wanted the shampoo bar to work! But like you said, could be because you clarified the day before. Thinking about it now, I think soaps are indeed clarifying, so using soap as a shampoo would mean clarifying your hair each time? (I could be wrong). I guess it would have to be offset by a lot of moisturisation either within the soap bar, or by conditioning afterwards.

[Cafe au Lait]

See if shampooing the scalp solves the shedding issue for you. Coat your ends in conditioner to protect them from the shampoo when you use it on your scalp. Rinse the shampoo out from your hair, then apply conditioner again to your ends and either rinse out or leave in (as your preference).

Or you could try some other alternatives like shampoo, rinse, condition (scalp and hair), or CWC where you condition the scalp/hair (don't rinse out), then apply shampoo (rinse out), then condition (either your scalp again, or just the ends).

I hope this resolves for you :flower: Let me know how it goes..

Thanks for all the ideas!! I think I'm going to try shampooing the scalp + conditioning the ends tomorrow. Hopefully my waves will be okay with this!

[earthnut]

Hi all, I would love to know your input on this

I went to see a 'hair expert' who said he didn't like the idea of CO washing. He said that conditioners leave chemical residues behind on the hair and scalp and that his concern with co washing is the possibility of build-up on the scalp, and the build-up would be quite huge over a long period of time, blocking hair follicles.

Now, I disagree. I mean *all* products will build up on our scalp over time right? Even shampoo. As long as you rinse out properly, I don't see conditioner building up on your scalp any more than shampoo (unless you used cones perhaps).

What are your thoughts?

It depends on the ingredients. Some common ingredients in conditioners will build up on hair if you don't use shampoo -

Alkyl-quaternized ammonium salts (see this article (http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlreading/products-ingredients/cationic-surfactants-in-curly-hair-care-products))
Some Polyquaternium compounds
Guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride
Silicones (end in -cone, -xane, -conol) [PEG and PPG silicones are water-dispersible and OK]
some polymers
Petrolatum and mineral oil
Waxes like lanolin and beeswax

But there are conditioners without these ingredients that shouldn't cause any buildup without shampoo.

And as far as build up on the scalp, that has more to do with the thoroughness of massaging your scalp when you wash than ingredients, because the scalp is constantly renewing itself and sloughing off dead skin and oils, unlike hair which is dead.

[earthnut]

I may have to give up CO washing. :(

I am just shedding SO MUCH. I've tried different conditioners, different methods.. But I am losing big chunks. And I saw this morning that the crown of my head is thinning noticeably.

I don't know what to do now.. CO was so good for my curls. I just don't know what I'm going to do next. Should I still use some as a leave-in? Should I still use it on my length?

This is actually making me distressed!

When do you handle/detangle/comb/brush your hair? When I start messing with my hair as soon as it's wet, I get a fair amount of shedding. If I hold off on handling my hair until it has product in it, I get very little shedding.

However. Losing big chunks suggests to me that you have a sensitivity to some ingredient. Has every conditioner you've tried caused the same problem? If so, what were they and what were their ingredients? Perhaps they have a common ingredient that is the culprit.

Leaving some conditioner on your length, as a leave in, away from your scalp, shouldn't be a problem.

[earthnut]

Is there a comprehensive list of bad hair ingredients out there?

No, for two reasons.

There are different definitions of "bad". Bad for health? Bad for the environment? Bad for buildup when you're not using shampoo?

What doesn't work for one person may be the best thing for another person. Everyone has different hair types with different hair properties and needs different ingredients.

The answer is unfortunately not simple. You need to educate yourself on your hair properties, what your hair likes and doesn't like through trial and error, and what ingredients might work for you, based on your hair properties, routine, and past history. Here's a pretty good list of hair product ingredients (though not comprehensive): http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlreading/curl-products/ingredients-commonly-found-in-hair-care-products All those ingredients work for someone, whether they work for you is for you to determine.

[coffee_breath]

Quick question--

My CO-washing attempt lasted about a month, with a cone-free clarifying conditioner. I have super-fine, straight hair and lots of it, and literally NOTHING gets it to pouf up! I usually have to dye it to get volume. Anyway, the CO-washing destroyed any semblance of volume, leaving my hair flat and oily. Where did I go wrong? Clarified with vinegar every other day, and I have soft water.

[earthnut]

Quick question--

My CO-washing attempt lasted about a month, with a cone-free clarifying conditioner. I have super-fine, straight hair and lots of it, and literally NOTHING gets it to pouf up! I usually have to dye it to get volume. Anyway, the CO-washing destroyed any semblance of volume, leaving my hair flat and oily. Where did I go wrong? Clarified with vinegar every other day, and I have soft water.

What conditioner did you use exactly? Clarifying conditioners sometimes aren't clarifying in themselves (which is kinda an oxymoron anyway). Some clarifying conditioners are only called clarifying because they're formulated to be used with a clarifying shampoo. These conditioners can actually be very heavy, trying to moisturize the hair extra well after the clarifying shampoo has stripped the hair.

You only tried that one conditioner? You may get very different results with a different conditioner. This is true for me. Suave makes my hair limp and straight, Natures Gate makes my hair stiff and curly. With fine hair, you probably need a light conditioner, and probably shouldn't leave very much in, if any. Fine hair tends to like protein to give it strength, if so, look for a conditioner that has "hydrolyzed" ingredients in it.

[Thenolegirl]

Hello =)

I've been doing CWC with organic shampoo/conditioner and Sauve Naturals shampoo/conditioner and stretching washes - generally every 3 days but I try very hard to stretch to four. I'm running and working out again, and my hair was just so gross on it's third day, but the length felt so soft from coconut oil.

I didn't want to mess up the moisture so I decided to pull out a bottle of VO5 conditioner. My hair feels good and the shedding in the shower wasn't any worse than normal CWC. It also got out all the coconut oil I put in there over the course of three days.

I think I'm going to try to stretch my washes further by CO-washing every third wash. This way I would CWC on Monday and Friday, and CO-wash on Wednesdays. When I was just CO-ing, the shedding was horrible and when I'm at school my hair won't get super clean at all with the hard water. This way my hair is definitely getting cleaned twice a week to get rid of residue and I'm not over-stripping my hair in the middle of the week after workouts.

The best of both worlds! =) CO gives me so much volume too when I have soft water.

[fridgee]

I tried hot yoga for the first time last night and was totally unprepared for how many buckets I was going to sweat so I was not planning on washing my hair before heading off on a night out. I went straight from yoga to my friend's house to get ready and really had to wash my hair, but obviously didn't have any of my products wit me, I was certain I was going to end up a massive frizz ball. The only conditioner she had was a small amount of garnier fructis so I did a sparing CO wash left for no time at all on my hair, rinsed out and a bit added back in. My curls dried more perfectly and curlier than they ever had! Turns out it was repair and shine/triple nutrition that everyone raves about! I know some people don't like it after the formula change, but if it's this amazing since the change I wish I had some of the old stuff to try! I'm going to try to buy some (of the new stuff) to see if I can replicate those results or if it was a freak occurrence. I've looked for it before tho and haven't seen anywhere that actually carries fructis, which is odd because it's a popular brand. I realize that was long and rambley, sorry I was excited!

[In2wishin]

Quick question--

My CO-washing attempt lasted about a month, with a cone-free clarifying conditioner. I have super-fine, straight hair and lots of it, and literally NOTHING gets it to pouf up! I usually have to dye it to get volume. Anyway, the CO-washing destroyed any semblance of volume, leaving my hair flat and oily. Where did I go wrong? Clarified with vinegar every other day, and I have soft water.

I sounds to me like you are clarifying too much. You shouldn't need to clarify every wash so perhaps go to a regular conditioner instead of a clarifying one. Most conditioners have a lower pH so you shouldn't need the acidic rinse each time either.

[louzen]

It depends on the ingredients. Some common ingredients in conditioners will build up on hair if you don't use shampoo -

Alkyl-quaternized ammonium salts (see this article (http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlreading/products-ingredients/cationic-surfactants-in-curly-hair-care-products))
Some Polyquaternium compounds
Guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride
Silicones (end in -cone, -xane, -conol) [PEG and PPG silicones are water-dispersible and OK]
some polymers
Petrolatum and mineral oil
Waxes like lanolin and beeswax

But there are conditioners without these ingredients that shouldn't cause any buildup without shampoo.

Many thanks for this list earthnut :). Sounds like the conditioner I'm using shouldn't build up since it simply contains cetearyl alcohol, cetrimonium chloride? and some beneficial oils and aloe vera. I will keep the ingredients you've listed in mind when I buy new conditioners.


And as far as build up on the scalp, that has more to do with the thoroughness of massaging your scalp when you wash than ingredients, because the scalp is constantly renewing itself and sloughing off dead skin and oils, unlike hair which is dead.

Do you mean that as long as you thoroughly rinse and massage your scalp after conditioning then that will lessen the build up even if you use ingredients that have the potential to cause build up? That makes sense

[louzen]

louzen my resonse to that is that his thoughts are too general - it totally depends on ingredients - not all shampoos or conditioners were created equal! and at the same time to two people are exactly the same either. Anything has the potential to build up on the scalp, even natural sebum, a lot of it is to do with the wash technique as well not just the product

Very true. I hate it when people generalise!


I can only speak from my own experience, Louzen, but I have found the opposite to be true. Before COing, I used a sulfate-free shampoo (and way before that, a sulfate shampoo) daily and I can honestly say that I had more scalp buildup then and that my hair would be greasy at the roots by the end of the day. CO has changed that completely! My scalp has never felt so healthy and I can actually stretch washes now.

I've noticed this too. Before I joined LHC, I used to shampoo every 2 days and end up a greaseball if I stretched washes. I'm also still trying to remove all the build up that has occurred over the years through deep oiling and clarifying now and again. With CO I'm gradually moving to stretching my washes :)

[cmg]

Quick question--

My CO-washing attempt lasted about a month, with a cone-free clarifying conditioner. I have super-fine, straight hair and lots of it, and literally NOTHING gets it to pouf up! I usually have to dye it to get volume. Anyway, the CO-washing destroyed any semblance of volume, leaving my hair flat and oily. Where did I go wrong? Clarified with vinegar every other day, and I have soft water.

Vinegar doesnt clarify. This takes some detergent, depending on what substance you try to clarify from. You may have some buildup that the vinegar doesnt help you getting rid off. This usually takes SLES or cocamidepropyl betaine and the like.

There are some true clarifying conditioners that might contain SLES for example. But be ware : Whenever I have tried those, they usually have some buildup stuff like stearate XYZ or some other mineral component in them, even though they might be conefree. And then they are useless if you want to avoid the bad circle with coating and removing. Look out for these ingredients, they do cause buildup! My hair got limp, flat and frizzy at the same time from these condishes. And they never made any second hair day possible for me, though I normally can go for up to a week without any problems. Check the ingredients carefully!

Here is some info on a clarifying agent that can be used besides those containing sulphur:
http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/2010/06/alternatives-to-sulfate-shampoos.html
More general info about removing agents (unfortunately just mentioning cones, not the other coating stuffs):
http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlreading/curl-products/whats-the-scoop-on-silicones

/ CMG

[In2wishin]

Do you mean that as long as you thoroughly rinse and massage your scalp after conditioning then that will lessen the build up even if you use ingredients that have the potential to cause build up? That makes sense

Actually, the massaging should be done with the conditioner. That is what lessens the build up and cleanses the hair. Do it just like you would with a shampoo but for a longer period of time, then rinse thoroughly. When you rinse, the sebum and dirt and stuff should also rinse out.

[louzen]

Actually, the massaging should be done with the conditioner. That is what lessens the build up and cleanses the hair. Do it just like you would with a shampoo but for a longer period of time, then rinse thoroughly. When you rinse, the sebum and dirt and stuff should also rinse out.

Thanks In2wishin, this is what I'm already doing so looks like I'm on the right track :)

[Henrietta]

I have to say I have not been in the mood for CO recently. I just CWC. Also, I've decided to go cone free on my scalp which means looking for a new CO condish. *huge sigh*

[Cafe au Lait]

I used VO5 yesterday. The shed wasn't as bad, so maybe I'm sensitive to something in the Tresemme Naturals. However, my hair looked and felt.. terrible.

I found Everyday Shea yesterday at Super Supplement and used it this morning. *insert angels singing here* Oh. Wow.

There was no slip, which was super annoying. And of course, I'll have to keep using it to see how my shed rate is. HOWEVER, my hair looks even better than it did with Tresemme. With that, I still had to smooth over some product to tame the frizzies. With Everyday Shea, I have no frizz whatsoever. And my hair is soft, soft I tell you!!

Edit : Apparently autocorrect changed "frizzies" to "grizzlies". Which I haven't tamed.

[earthnut]

Many thanks for this list earthnut :). Sounds like the conditioner I'm using shouldn't build up since it simply contains cetearyl alcohol, cetrimonium chloride?

Cetrimonium chloride might build up since it's an alkyl-quaternized ammonium salt. Many people don't seem to have much trouble with alkyl-quaternized ammonium salts though.

[earthnut]

I found Everyday Shea yesterday at Super Supplement and used it this morning. *insert angels singing here* Oh. Wow.

There was no slip, which was super annoying.

I think it odd that people think ES doesn't have slip. I found it had plenty of slip. It feels a little different than Suave and VO5, because it has oil instead of fatty alcohols, but I find it just as good for detangling. :shrug:

[Cafe au Lait]

I think it odd that people think ES doesn't have slip. I found it had plenty of slip. It feels a little different than Suave and VO5, because it has oil instead of fatty alcohols, but I find it just as good for detangling. :shrug:

I'm probably exaggerating when I say it has no slip. But it has very little, for me at least. Detangling was more difficult. However, it's worth it if this is how my hair will behave. I was skeptical, but when it dried it was amazing.

I'm just waiting to see how my scalp will take it.

[Tisiloves]

Edit : Apparently autocorrect changed "frizzies" to "grizzlies". Which I haven't tamed.


Personally I'd love to see the conditioner that could tame grizzlies, maybe something honey based?

[brave]

I think it odd that people think ES doesn't have slip. I found it had plenty of slip. It feels a little different than Suave and VO5, because it has oil instead of fatty alcohols, but I find it just as good for detangling. :shrug:

It just didn't seem to easily glide down my hair at all. Detangling seemed to take more effort with it. It could be that it was harder to get massive amounts out, but despite all the oils it still took just as much of ES as my hair does of any other medium-thick conditioner.

My hair has no slip to it when it's wet though. So maybe that's why. It could have to do with porousness?

[Cafe au Lait]

Personally I'd love to see the conditioner that could tame grizzlies, maybe something honey based?

Maybe an SMT?:D

[ratgirldjh]

I used VO5 yesterday. The shed wasn't as bad, so maybe I'm sensitive to something in the Tresemme Naturals. However, my hair looked and felt.. terrible.

I found Everyday Shea yesterday at Super Supplement and used it this morning. *insert angels singing here* Oh. Wow.

There was no slip, which was super annoying. And of course, I'll have to keep using it to see how my shed rate is. HOWEVER, my hair looks even better than it did with Tresemme. With that, I still had to smooth over some product to tame the frizzies. With Everyday Shea, I have no frizz whatsoever. And my hair is soft, soft I tell you!!

Edit : Apparently autocorrect changed "frizzies" to "grizzlies". Which I haven't tamed.

I read somewhere that lots of people have scalp issues with Tresemme Naturals. I used it once and it stung my scalp and I took it back. I think that is how I found that it was a problem for quite a lot of people. I also shed a bunch the one time I used it.

[Cafe au Lait]

I read somewhere that lots of people have scalp issues with Tresemme Naturals. I used it once and it stung my scalp and I took it back. I think that is how I found that it was a problem for quite a lot of people. I also shed a bunch the one time I used it.

Interesting! I wish I would have known that before. On the other hand, Tresemme Naturals is what showed me that my hair had the potential to look and feel better than just a dry mess. Just wish I could have found out another way, before I lost so much!

Part of it was stubbornness on my part.. I didn't want to believe that it was causing the shedding..

[earthnut]

It just didn't seem to easily glide down my hair at all. Detangling seemed to take more effort with it. It could be that it was harder to get massive amounts out, but despite all the oils it still took just as much of ES as my hair does of any other medium-thick conditioner.

My hair has no slip to it when it's wet though. So maybe that's why. It could have to do with porousness?

My hair has pretty much no slip when just wet either, and when I'm plopping regularly, it's pretty tangly. If I try to detangle when just wet, I get lots of shed. When I detangle with ES, I get almost no shed. :shrug:

[earthnut]

I've been experimenting with different conditioners recently. Suave strawberry and coconut cause my hair to straighten significantly, and I wanted to figure out why. I think I've determined it's the Distearyldimonium Chloride. It might also be the Propylene Glycol, but that's less likely. Both of those ingredients haven't been in the conditioners that have made my hair curly.

I tried Suave ocean breeze, which has Stearamidopropyl Dimethylamine instead of the Chloride surfactants. SD also has an advantage in that it isn't supposed to cause any buildup. AFAIK, Suave ocean breeze doesn't have any ingredients with the potential for buildup. My hair was nicely curly, my scalp seemed pretty calm, and so I like it quite a bit. :grnbiggri

Next, I want to determine which ingredient in Everyday Shea is causing my scalp to be itchy... I like it other than that. :sad

[brave]

My hair has pretty much no slip when just wet either, and when I'm plopping regularly, it's pretty tangly. If I try to detangle when just wet, I get lots of shed. When I detangle with ES, I get almost no shed. :shrug:

Man hair is weirdly different. Detangling wet was pretty average shed. I haven't used everyday shea in ages so I don't recall shedding. Shedding with Tresemme Naturals is bad, though. I'm trying to figure out what's doing it.

Interesting to hear about the differences between SN conditioners. I have tried strawberry and ocean breeze. I don't recall if there was a difference in curl but I may have to try it. What other conditioners have made your hair curly?

[PetuniaBlossom]

:hmm:As much as I would like to stay exclusively with CO, I think I'll have to switch to CWC, with only an occasional CO. With CO there's been a lot more shedding than is usual for me, and switching to different conditioners doesn't seem to make much difference. Drat! I really thought CO and I would be an exclusive item for years to come. (But then, I thought that about my ex-husband, so what do I know?)
So I'll be hanging out over on the CWC thread but I'll pop in here from time to time. I'll miss you guys.

[Aqua Gal]

I just wanted to pop in and say Hi again. I'm always catching up, but never really post much, because nothing exciting ever happens with my hair. Still COing away without much drama.

I just wanted to say how much I love all of the tips in this thread. Especially the one about diluting! Good grief that made everything work for me. As always, thanks for sharing.

[EndlessSunshine]

Diluting is great because it still gets my hair clean and saves a little more money.

[earthnut]

Interesting to hear about the differences between SN conditioners. I have tried strawberry and ocean breeze. I don't recall if there was a difference in curl but I may have to try it. What other conditioners have made your hair curly?

Made my hair straighter: Suave Coconut, Suave Strawberry

I want to try one more Suave conditioner to narrow down the problem ingredient. Suave lavender lilac contains PG but not DC, so if DC is the problem, my hair will like it, and if it's the PG, my hair shouldn't like it. There's not a lot of difference between Suave conditioners, but there is some, just enough for me to determine what my hair doesn't like by process of elimination. :D

Good curl: Everyday Shea, Suave Ocean Breeze

Curly but greasy: VO5 Extra Body (contains protein), VO5 shea cashmere (contains protein), L'Oreal EverPure Smooth

There's quite a lot of variation within the VO5 conditioners. I've only tried the protein ones as yet. And I've decided my hair doesn't like protein conditioners as leave ins. I'll try VO5 Kiwi Lime next, just because it's popular.

Made my hair curlier and stiff: Nature’s Gate Henna (high in protein)

I may use NG conditioners as a protein treatment.

And that's what I've tried so far! When I determine what conditioner is best, then I'll move on to stylers. :D

[brave]

Made my hair straighter: Suave Coconut, Suave Strawberry

I want to try one more Suave conditioner to narrow down the problem ingredient. Suave lavender lilac contains PG but not DC, so if DC is the problem, my hair will like it, and if it's the PG, my hair shouldn't like it. There's not a lot of difference between Suave conditioners, but there is some, just enough for me to determine what my hair doesn't like by process of elimination. :D

Good curl: Everyday Shea, Suave Ocean Breeze

Curly but greasy: VO5 Extra Body (contains protein), VO5 shea cashmere (contains protein), L'Oreal EverPure Smooth

There's quite a lot of variation within the VO5 conditioners. I've only tried the protein ones as yet. And I've decided my hair doesn't like protein conditioners as leave ins. I'll try VO5 Kiwi Lime next, just because it's popular.

Made my hair curlier and stiff: Nature’s Gate Henna (high in protein)

I may use NG conditioners as a protein treatment.

And that's what I've tried so far! When I determine what conditioner is best, then I'll move on to stylers. :D

You're awesomely thorough. I haven't tried much of the VO stuff, I usually prefer something thicker to detangle with, but you might convince me.

Have you tried GVP conditioning balm at all?

Water (Aqua), Propylene Glycol, Myristyl Alcohol, Cetrimonium Chloride, Cetearyl Alcohol, Decyl Oleate, Phenoxyethanol, Fragrance (Parfum), Methylparaben, Propylparaben, Hexyl Cinnamal, Rosmarinus Officinalis (Rosemary) Leaf Extract, Hydrastis Canadensis (Golden Seal) Extract, Fucus Vesiculosus (Bladderwack) Extract, Methyl-2-Octynoate
Currently what I'm using for both cowashing and leave-in.

I will stay tuned in for your experiments with stylers! I have a few blog posts reviewing some of the gels I tried and their ingredients. Right now I am slowly acquiring some of the NC classics and testing them out.

[kitschy]

You're awesomely thorough. I haven't tried much of the VO stuff, I usually prefer something thicker to detangle with, but you might convince me.

Have you tried GVP conditioning balm at all?

Currently what I'm using for both cowashing and leave-in.

I will stay tuned in for your experiments with stylers! I have a few blog posts reviewing some of the gels I tried and their ingredients. Right now I am slowly acquiring some of the NC classics and testing them out.

I prefer VO5 to Suave...it might be thinner, but I find VO5 has more "slip." I use GVB conditioning balm as a leave in (if I use one). The GVP is incredibly thick but doesn't have much slip. Usually now that my hair is long, I just use an oil seal and plop. I get really good results without all the producty feel of LI and gel.

[brave]

I still haven't mastered the plop. I have thick blunt cut bangs and I'm always too concerned about making them lay funny, because I can't figure out how to pull them out of the plop either. I keep hearing how wonderful plopping is and it sounds great -- nice alternative to the turbans -- but I think with bangs it just doesn't work or something.

Between VO5 and Suave, which did you use more of? Since switching to the GVP balm my hair finally stays conditioned throughout the entire day and into the next, but I think it might be slightly overkill occasionally.

[GRU]

I still haven't mastered the plop. I have thick blunt cut bangs and I'm always too concerned about making them lay funny, because I can't figure out how to pull them out of the plop either. I keep hearing how wonderful plopping is and it sounds great -- nice alternative to the turbans -- but I think with bangs it just doesn't work or something.

I haven't had bangs for the better part of a decade, but here's an idea: put your bangs in a loose little "front ponytail", then plop, then undo the ponytail. That will leave your bangs loose in the front, with the length all caught up in the plop.

[earthnut]

You're awesomely thorough.I guess that's what comes from being the daughter of two research scientists. lol


Have you tried GVP conditioning balm at all?

Currently what I'm using for both cowashing and leave-in.
Haven't tried that one. Interesting ingredient list.

[Elithia]

I still haven't mastered the plop.

I've been plopping for the last, oh, 8 months or so, because in the winter when I had 9am Latin I wanted to get as much water out of my hair as possible to brave the snow (I am a morning showerer. It is just reality and so I work with it). I kept it up into the summer and then one day I remembered how I used to just scrunch the water out of my hair, and I tried that, and suddenly the whole length was curlier again.

So here is the breakdown that I've found for my hair:

plopping=nice root lift and less water left in the hair, but less curl in the top 8 inches (about the same at the ends).
just scrunching without any other drying = better curl but flatter roots.

[brave]

I haven't had bangs for the better part of a decade, but here's an idea: put your bangs in a loose little "front ponytail", then plop, then undo the ponytail. That will leave your bangs loose in the front, with the length all caught up in the plop.

...:doh: I will try this!

My hair is not yet long enough to suffer from much root crushing, but I would like a shorter drying time.

Other things I've learned today: Propylene Glycol has its own website.

[dixid]

I've been experimenting with different conditioners recently. Suave strawberry and coconut cause my hair to straighten significantly, and I wanted to figure out why. I think I've determined it's the Distearyldimonium Chloride. It might also be the Propylene Glycol, but that's less likely. Both of those ingredients haven't been in the conditioners that have made my hair curly.

I tried Suave ocean breeze, which has Stearamidopropyl Dimethylamine instead of the Chloride surfactants. SD also has an advantage in that it isn't supposed to cause any buildup. AFAIK, Suave ocean breeze doesn't have any ingredients with the potential for buildup. My hair was nicely curly, my scalp seemed pretty calm, and so I like it quite a bit. :grnbiggri

Next, I want to determine which ingredient in Everyday Shea is causing my scalp to be itchy... I like it other than that. :sad

I just came on here to find out if SN Juicy Green Apple could be what's causing my hair to be flat and completely waveless. It's got Propylene Glycol, so I'm going to run out and get some SN Ocean Breeze to try instead. Thanks!

[nyia]

I think that every time I come to this forum, I learn something new! Today, it's Plopping.

I do not plop. I don't believe I've ever plopped. I probably won't plop. But, my hair still dries into one long, corkscrew, tight, curl, if I don't braid while it's wet. When I say long, it means almost to knees, if I could get it to stay straight, it would be below knees. However, it won't stay straight, thus the braid.

I found a really nice smelling conditioner at an off the wall place, called Petal Fresh, with Aloe and Citrus. It's thinner than some of the others I've used, but it is vaguely reminiscent of VO5 Tangerine Tickle, which my hair liked a LOT. I've been trying to replace that since it went out of production, and this looks like a possibility. For whatever reason, I never really liked the smell or after-effects of any of the other VO5 products, so I miss the one I liked.

I tried the Tressame conditioner (citrus flower, I believe) and did have a lot of shedding, so I stopped using it. The formula must have changed since I used it before, because it never used to have an effect like that, and I used Tressame for years before going to CO. Strange.

After more than 5 years (I think maybe 8 years now!) of CO, almost everything I did at first I am now doing differently, or with another product. Two things stick out in my mind as being the same: I still start off with a relatively light conditioner to do the initial washing session, and I still use one of the vented detangler/dryer brushes while my head is full of conditioner to detangle as much in the shower as possible. The only product that is still the same is the occasional use of the Aussie DEEEP 3 Minute Miracle.

Oh, and, I found the ideal bottle (for me) to mix up the "I gotta wash it" solution that I use when I absolutely have to wash, like on a hot sweaty day, or falling down and laying on the floor of McDonald's till the ambulance comes. I use one of the large Creamer containers (my daughter and her hubby are addicted to them!), put in one short squirt of shampoo (Mane N Tail), four good sized squirts of conditioner (Mane N Tail, usually, for this), and fill the rest with warm water. It makes about a quart of solution, without too much shampoo in the mix, and it all rinses away easily. Plus, the top seals really well if I only need a little bit, so I have some already prepared for next time!

Hope everyone is having a lovely summer!

Edit: Daughter and her hubby are addicted to the flavored creamers, not the bottles. The bottles also make excellent mini-canisters, especially for camping and travel.

[CurlyMopTop]

My hair likes it better if I alternate conditioners and low poo. So far alternating Suave raspberry and Vo5 Kiwi lime squeeze seem to work well with a low poo wash thrown in once every 7 to 10 days depending on how often I'm washing/wetting my hair. Anytime I cleanse, I only cleanse the scalp and let the rest run through my hair during the rinsing process. When I CO I don't need a rinse out conditioner most of the time (might change during the winter months). If I low poo I condition afterwards. Every so often I swap out my CO with a protein treatment followed by a short conditioning treatment. I always use a LI (CKKT) though. My scalp doesn't seem to care for the Tressame Naturals either, but the length likes it once in a while. I have very fine curly hair that has low porosity. It can get over conditioned quite easily. My head begins to shed kittens (cats really) if this happens. I just figured that I'd share my routine and experiences with CO in hopes that it can help someone else with the same hair type, I know that a lot of members have stopped CO due to shedding issues. It took me well over a year to figure this out and find a way to make it work. It was well worth it though. ;D

[Neecola]

Great tip about the creamer containers, nyia! I'm sorry to hear about your fall at McDonald's -- hope you have recovered completely.

Thanks for sharing your routine, CurlyMopTop. Our hair is very similar (in fact, when I had hair your length, it looked nearly identical-- makes me think I should change my hair type.) I did a porosity test by floating a strand of my hair in water and it was still floating 20 minutes later. I'm not sure how accurate it is but it seems to indicate low porosity. I also henna and think that it has a sealing effect on the hair. I have been having shedding issues so perhaps I should try your method. Do you have a low poo that you recommend?

[earthnut]

Thanks for sharing your routine, CurlyMopTop. Our hair is very similar (in fact, when I had hair your length, it looked nearly identical-- makes me think I should change my hair type.) I did a porosity test by floating a strand of my hair in water and it was still floating 20 minutes later. I'm not sure how accurate it is but it seems to indicate low porosity.

You sure don't look like a 2c to me! According to NC.com, 3a hair has curls 1 inch wide, 3b has curls 1/2 inch wide, and 3c has curls 1/4 inch wide. You look like a 3a, as does curlymoptop.

The float test is unreliable for testing porosity. Many things can affect floating that are unrelated to porosity. See this page: http://scienceyhairblog.blogspot.com/2012/06/hair-porosity-how-to-measure-sort-of.html

[earthnut]

My hair likes it better if I alternate conditioners and low poo. So far alternating Suave raspberry and Vo5 Kiwi lime squeeze seem to work well with a low poo wash thrown in once every 7 to 10 days depending on how often I'm washing/wetting my hair.

How come? Does one cause more itchiness or shedding?

[brave]

http://i.imgur.com/z3cNAl.png
Gru, you're freakin' brilliant. Now to see what happens to the hair underneath.

[afu]

I'm back to CO after experimenting with WO and then a natural shampoo bar. CO really is the best thing for my hair and always gives the best result. My routine is to dilute Morrisons jojoba conditioner equal parts with water (maybe a bit more, i don't pay a lot of attention to measuring), massage into wet hair, do the rest of my shower stuff then rinse out. Most of the time i don't need a leave in but if i do i use some undiluted conditoner and/or some sweet almond oil on the ends. I then squeeze out excess water using a PVA towel and leave to air dry. I tried plopping but it gives me a lot of frizz at my crown. A good scrunch and leaving it alone works better for me.

[GRU]

Gru, you're freakin' brilliant. Now to see what happens to the hair underneath.

Hope it works out for you! And now I'm wondering how to work "freakin' brilliant" into my Enablinator title... ;)

[Ginbill]

I've been CO washing for 15 days about every 2 - 3 sometimes going longer if I can stand to let the oil build up a little more (Aka if I'm not leaving the house for something I can't wear it slicked back into a ponytail or hat, lol) and I haven't noticed any need for clarifying. Is that normal? Should I just go ahead and do it every so often or just wait until I 'need' it? Is it just personal preference?

I'm still loving it. I didn't really have any problems switching from shampoo and conditioner to CO washing. Maybe I've finally found something my hair likes!

[DaniVerde]

Hope it works out for you! And now I'm wondering how to work "freakin' brilliant" into my Enablinator title... ;)

"The Enablinator of Freakin' Brilliant-ness"? :D

[Neecola]

You sure don't look like a 2c to me! According to NC.com, 3a hair has curls 1 inch wide, 3b has curls 1/2 inch wide, and 3c has curls 1/4 inch wide. You look like a 3a, as does curlymoptop.

The float test is unreliable for testing porosity. Many things can affect floating that are unrelated to porosity. See this page: http://scienceyhairblog.blogspot.com/2012/06/hair-porosity-how-to-measure-sort-of.html

Thanks for your input, earthnut! It was a few years ago that I typed my hair and not all of my hair twirls/curls all the way around. Some of it makes large S-shaped waves which is why I included 2c. I probably need more length before I really know what hair type I am but I will take your advice and change it to 3a.

I've read a few things on that blog before -- so interesting! I am very confused by porosity because my hair feels almost velcro-y when I run my finger up a hair (towards my scalp). My hair now is virgin (except henna) and I have never used heat on it and handle it gently so it shouldn't be damage; perhaps just natural porosity? My hair is very reactive to humidity which also makes me think it is porous. I have no idea! :shrug:

[GRU]

I've been CO washing for 15 days about every 2 - 3 sometimes going longer if I can stand to let the oil build up a little more (Aka if I'm not leaving the house for something I can't wear it slicked back into a ponytail or hat, lol) and I haven't noticed any need for clarifying. Is that normal? Should I just go ahead and do it every so often or just wait until I 'need' it? Is it just personal preference?

I use shampoo once a year, whether I need it or not.

In other words, yes, it is completely normal to not need to clarify -- it all depends on if you're putting anything on your hair that has a chance to build up. I'm uber-careful about reading product labels and avoiding anything that can accumulate, so I have no need to clarify.


"The Enablinator of Freakin' Brilliant-ness"? :D

Well, since I made up the word "enablinator" maybe I should make up something like "brilliantability" to go with it?

[Tisiloves]

Hope it works out for you! And now I'm wondering how to work "freakin' brilliant" into my Enablinator title... ;)

And lo, we sing the epic of GRU, the Freakin' Brilliant Enablator :whistle::violin:

[DaniVerde]

Well, since I made up the word "enablinator" maybe I should make up something like "brilliantability" to go with it?



And lo, we sing the epic of GRU, the Freakin' Brilliant Enablator :whistle::violin:

I agree with both of these sentiments :D

[GRU]

Oh, the mental picture I have now, of a bunch of longhairs singing about me, their manes flowing to and fro.... :lol:

[DaniVerde]

Like the Icelandic skalds singing the sagas! :p

[earthnut]

I haven't noticed any need for clarifying. Is that normal? Should I just go ahead and do it every so often or just wait until I 'need' it? Is it just personal preference?

You may not need to clarify, or you may not need to clarify very often. It depends on your hair and the products you use. :bluesmile We also all have different expectations for our hair.


I've read a few things on that blog before -- so interesting! I am very confused by porosity because my hair feels almost velcro-y when I run my finger up a hair (towards my scalp). My hair now is virgin (except henna) and I have never used heat on it and handle it gently so it shouldn't be damage; perhaps just natural porosity? My hair is very reactive to humidity which also makes me think it is porous. I have no idea! :shrug:

My hair was porous hen I started CO, and I also have virgin hair, never used heat. Handling, brushing, weather, sunlight, shampoo can also all increase porosity. My porosity has noticeably decreased since starting CO. But I'm sure I would get porous again very quickly if I started using more shampoo and less conditioner.


And lo, we sing the epic of GRU, the Freakin' Brilliant Enablator :whistle::violin:

:violin::disco::whistle:

[In2wishin]

Gru, you're freakin' brilliant. Now to see what happens to the hair underneath.


Oh, the mental picture I have now, of a bunch of longhairs singing about me, their manes flowing to and fro.... :lol:

I WAS going to say "don't encourage her" but I see that I am too late :nono:

[GRU]

I WAS going to say "don't encourage her" but I see that I am too late :nono:

Snooze and lose! :lol:

[CurlyMopTop]

You're welcome Neecola. I've tried several low poo shampoos, they are definitely not created equal. Right now I'm going back and forth between Kinky Curly Come Clean and L'oreal Intense Smoothing Shampoo (I'm still experimenting with shampoos and stylers). I'd like to try Shea Moisture moisture retention shampoo one of these days, but it's hard justifying the purchase when you have at least 5 open bottles of shampoo and you only use it about once a week (in small amounts). I have to wait until My daughter has room in the other bathroom (that's where my failed products go). Between her and my son they get used eventually. :p

I agree with Earthnut about the float test, it's not reliable. It was the first porosity test that I did though. I left hair floating in a glass of water for 2 days. It never sank. If you pull a strand of hair from my head and run your fingers end to root, you will hear a squeaking sound and it feels smooth end to root.

Earthnut you're correct. When I originally did my hairtyping the outerlayer of hair had 3a curls and the underlayer were 3b with an occasional 3c. Now after several Henna applications, change in cut (no more layers) it looks more 2c/3a to me. The top layer has a very strong s shaped pattern with fat 3a curls forming at the ends. The underlayer looks mostly 3a with a few 3b curls that curl root to tip. I have no idea why my hair prefers to rotate conditioners, but if I try to stick with just one I begin to have problems with shedding, itchy scalp and the ends of my hair will begin to cling to each other and get grabby. Build-up of some kind maybe???? If I try to cut out shampoo all together my scalp gets angry with me, gets very itchy, my hair becomes overmoisturized and will start shedding in huge clumps (scary). Regular shampoo and even the low poo shampoos out there are too drying to use all the time for me. I've never had the patience to research the different ingredients in all of the conditioners that I've tried (I've tried an awful lot of conditioners) the way that you do. I give you a lot of credit for that. Who thought that hair could be so complicated? All I know is that it's working.

Gru: Lol.... The tip you gave me for Henna application (condiment applicator bottle) worked beautifully. Thank you...

Ok. Thread hijack is done. Sorry for the long post. :D

[brave]

Snooze and lose! :lol:

I was gonna work in a GRU related pun, like "man I feel so GRUuvy" or "my curls are just GRUSOME" today but it felt forced.

[Alexblue]

Hello all!

What's the minimum time you leave conditioner on your hair with CO? I started CO over two months ago and, since my hair needs moisture, I leave conditioner on for roughly 30min each time (I work from home so it's easy to putter around the apartment with a towel on my hair :-)

However, I'm going travelling and do not want to do that each time. I thought about switching back to shampoo temporarily but my wavy hair really likes CO. Any advise?

[kitschy]

I leave my cowash in about 4 or 5 minutes, just long enough to soap an shave my legs.

[Neecola]

You're welcome Neecola. I've tried several low poo shampoos, they are definitely not created equal. Right now I'm going back and forth between Kinky Curly Come Clean and L'oreal Intense Smoothing Shampoo (I'm still experimenting with shampoos and stylers). I'd like to try Shea Moisture moisture retention shampoo one of these days, but it's hard justifying the purchase when you have at least 5 open bottles of shampoo and you only use it about once a week (in small amounts). I have to wait until My daughter has room in the other bathroom (that's where my failed products go). Between her and my son they get used eventually. :p


Thanks for sharing the products. I've heard some people have luck diluting shampoo with water. Have you tried that to help with the dryness?



Alexblue, I only ever leave my CO-wash in for a few minutes. Sometimes I will follow with something heavier if I feel like I need it.

[afu]

Alexblue my advice would be to start experimenting now so that you're prepared for when you go travelling. CO doesn't have to take a long time, most often when I CO I only leave the conditioner on for about 2 mins and I don't use a second conditioner either. The key for me is to be able to distribute it well so that you get a good covering, for me this involves diluting and massaging

[In2wishin]

Hello all!

What's the minimum time you leave conditioner on your hair with CO? I started CO over two months ago and, since my hair needs moisture, I leave conditioner on for roughly 30min each time (I work from home so it's easy to putter around the apartment with a towel on my hair :-)

However, I'm going travelling and do not want to do that each time. I thought about switching back to shampoo temporarily but my wavy hair really likes CO. Any advise?

Like kitschy, I apply and massage my condish, then do whatever else I need to in the shower (wash the body usually, I don't shave often). I then do a final massage and rinse.

[RachieBaby]

I've been CO for quite a few weeks now! Loving it! My hair is sooooo soft and shiny! In the last week I discovered Ice Shine by Pantene which my hair seems to love! It lathers really well too! I've been shampooing probably once a week but I may try and leave shampooing to perhaps once every two weeks. At the moment im COing everyday/ every other day.

[Alexblue]

Thanks everyone for the feedback. I'm going to start experimenting tomorrow, gradually reducing the time and see how my hair responds.

It's useful to have a ballpark to aim for and that everyone here has great results with just a few minutes.

Thanks again!

[earthnut]

Hello all!

What's the minimum time you leave conditioner on your hair with CO? I started CO over two months ago and, since my hair needs moisture, I leave conditioner on for roughly 30min each time (I work from home so it's easy to putter around the apartment with a towel on my hair :-)

However, I'm going travelling and do not want to do that each time. I thought about switching back to shampoo temporarily but my wavy hair really likes CO. Any advise?

I don't rinse. I wash my scalp (with either a sulfate free poo, water, or conditioner), rinse immediately. Apply conditioner, distribute, and detangle. Then leave it. If I don't use too much and it's well distributed, it doesn't feel greasy when dry, and I get curlier hair. My showering time is actually shorter than pre-CO. And I'm hoping I can cut out poo completely and use only one product (once I find the right conditioner). Simplicity!

[brave]

I do like a lot of others it seems -- distribute through hair, scrub and detangle, soap up other parts of body and rinse those, then rinse hair. Then put more in as a leave-in. Very quick, aside from occasionally detangling problems. Currently I use the same conditioner for both.

[CurlyMopTop]

Thanks for sharing the products. I've heard some people have luck diluting shampoo with water. Have you tried that to help with the dryness?



Alexblue, I only ever leave my CO-wash in for a few minutes. Sometimes I will follow with something heavier if I feel like I need it.

Yes, I have tried diluting. Still drying. It's not nearly as drying now only using it about once a week to two weeks with CO in between. It just depends on how much I wash my hair.

Alexblue, I only leave my CO-wash on while massaging (about a minute or two) my scalp to lift the dirt/oil off of my scalp. I rinse immediately after.

[Suze2012]

I'm another one who has found co washing to actually be quicker and less fuss than shampoo and co.

I started to have a bad time with my hair drying out and massively cut down on the amount of co I used. It's working and has done the trick plus my el-cheapo conditioner now lasts much much longer.

[salisem]

Hi LHCers :)

So I'm new here and when I read about this method, I decided to try it. I never would have dreamed you could clean with conditioner! Whoda thunkit. :D

Anyway I've been doing this for 2 weeks now with Suave Naturals Tropical Coconut. I CO daily, can't seem to break the daily wash habit yet. About every 3-4 days I CWC with my old Pantene stuff. My hair was looking great till today, suddenly I've got the greasies! Any thoughts on why? Maybe my scalp is just adjusting? Maybe I need to clarify? Is daily CO a bad idea? :confused:

Sorry for asking questions that have probably already been answered, but I think it would take me all month to read a 500+ page thread! :p