The CO (conditioner only) washing thread

[cmg]

Here is another easy to read link about shampoo/conditioner stuffs

http://www.hair2stay.co.uk/downloads/Shampoos.pdf

/ CMG

[brave]

Here is another easy to read link about shampoo/conditioner stuffs

http://www.hair2stay.co.uk/downloads/Shampoos.pdf

/ CMG

I read a large portion of the first one and it was very interesting. Interesting to see just how much of the look/feel of shampoo arose from a marketing need rather than a cleansing need. Reminds me of the Prell commercial (a pearl drops Really Slowly through this shampoo, therefore it is Extra Good Shampoo).

[Alexblue]

It looks like many people on this thread try lots of conditioners before resting on a couple that work for their hair and then alternate. I suppose that's good for preventing a bit of build up.

Out of curiosity, why do you add aloe vera? I use aloe vera in a home-made de-frizz and tangle spray after showering but never thought to use it with conditoner.

[afu]

Out of curiosity, why do you add aloe vera? I use aloe vera in a home-made de-frizz and tangle spray after showering but never thought to use it with conditoner.

I add aloe vera for it's moisturising and anti-frizz properties. Because of the nature of aloe vera gel it has to be used in a humid environment otherwise it will pull moisture out of the hair into the air, I sometimes use aloe vera gel as a leave in but for me it works best added to conditioner to really maximise it's mousturisation properties :)

[Alexblue]

Thanks for the info. I definitely suffer from the frizzes on the first day of a CO wash, hence the need for defrizz spray. I live in the southeast and some weeks are really humid, though its not year round.

[EndlessSunshine]

Right now we are in an almost drought state. I wish it was more humid so I could have frizzy hair just so the farmers can get some rain! Also on topic I am trying to stretch my washes LOL. Aloe vera is awesome for hair, I use it as a leave in and I also do the SMP's. Whe I had realy short hair I used it as gel.

[cmg]

I read a large portion of the first one and it was very interesting. Interesting to see just how much of the look/feel of shampoo arose from a marketing need rather than a cleansing need. Reminds me of the Prell commercial (a pearl drops Really Slowly through this shampoo, therefore it is Extra Good Shampoo).

Indeed! And thats why I am trying to jump off as many of these trains as I can.

/ CMG

[Thenolegirl]

Second time I washed my hair CO method round 2. My hair looks good! I went to the beach today and oiled a good amount with coconut oil on dry hair then french braided back. It had sand and salt water in it. I washed with V05 Passion Fruit Smoothie. I did use two small palmfuls for each half of my hair on the scalp, a small palmful for the length and a squirt in a small pitcher and used it as a diluted rinse to get the front part of my scalp.I have the tiniest amount of coconut oil on my ends and for once they feel great! :)

My first wash was a few days ago. My hair was getting pretty icky after two whole days - all the way down from the scalp to above my ears. Weird. If I have to wash more often, then that's no big deal since I'm not drying out/coating my hair in cones right?

[Gilly]

firegypsy, sorry for the delay. I didn't ignore your questions; I just have very limited internet right now. :p

How to tell if your hair is overmoisturized: when you wash it, find a shed hair, hold with both hands, and give it a pull. If it snaps immediately, your hair is too dry. If it stretches easily, or for a long time before snapping, your hair is overmoisturized and needs a bit of protein. If it's hard to stretch or snap, or if it stretches a bit and then snaps, it's probably in fairly balanced condition.
At least, I think that's how it works. Hopefully someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

And like luxepiggy said, cones won't kill you. They're just a matter of preference for your hair. Some people get healthier, shinier, silkier hair with cones. My hair seems to dislike them, and gets very frizzy and dry, yet won't absorb any oils. Without cones it just drinks up oil. So it's all about finding what works best for your hair.

:)

My hair snaps instantly, always has:rolleyes: I am going to buy a huge bottle of Sukin conditioner tomorrow and will go back to COing, I will need to clarify first though as I have been using Moroccanoil shampoo, conditioner and oil for the past 4 days as I have been away at an archery tournament and needed some protection!

[afu]

My first wash was a few days ago. My hair was getting pretty icky after two whole days - all the way down from the scalp to above my ears. Weird. If I have to wash more often, then that's no big deal since I'm not drying out/coating my hair in cones right?

Thats my mentality - if im not stripping my hair is won't be getting as damaged by the washing :) I like to wash my hair to I tend to wash about every 2 days but sometimes its everyday and sometimes 3-4 days depending on what im doing and whether i can resist washing!

[cmg]

Here is more on moisture versus protein:
http://pittsburghcurly.wordpress.com/tag/moistureprotein-balance/

/ CMG

[afu]

Nice link cmg :)

My hair seems to act in the opposite way than it 'should' according to almost every article i've read. It's fine and bleached for example so should do well with protein, in reality it can't seem to deal with any protein at all and for me it's all about moisture, moisture, moisture! It can also take a huge amount of oil despite being fine and thin and is super shiny even thought it's been through years of bleach and heat damage

[cmg]

Mine used to be like that too, at the time when I was doing all sorts of "no-no" stuff with it (heat treatments, bleaching, relaxing, flattening, dyeing you name it). Anything protein was total urrrgh. Today it can take some protein without getting limp, strawwy and flat. Actually it seems to like protein, as long as it is not packaged in a condish or a shampoo. It has to be in some sort of deep treatment, like cassia etc.

/ CMG

[brave]

Alright, so the conditioner I love and want to stock up on is the Trader Joe's Tea Tree Tingle.


water, tea tree, peppermint oil, eucalyptus oil, nettle oil, thyme oil, birch leaf oil, chamomile oil, clary, coltsfoot leaf, yarrow oil, mallow, horsetail oil, soybean protein, cetyl alcohol, vitamin e, trace minerals, citric acid, sodium hydroxymethylgycinate, grape seed

Opinions on whether or not that soybean protein is going to result in more hair-tantrums? My hair's normal state seems to be dry and tangled but so far the protein-free conditioners (sauve, etc) aren't strong enough and I'm frizzy.

Maybe I should give in and use silicones again, but I love the idea of having pretty hair without them. And I hope secretly I'll get a ton of curls.

Edit: one link says the person won't consider it as a leave-in due to the protein. I really need to find a good leave-in or test the one I loved (shea moisture) and see if the silk protein will be an issue.

[afu]

The ingredients of the trader joe teatree tingle look fab (apart from the protein) - oh you lucky USA CO'ers! I really can't stand the smell of teatree though. Have you already tried in brave? you could always alternate it with a protein free conditioner

[brave]

That's a good idea. I'll probably continue using Everyday Shea's conditioner:


Aqueous Shea Leaf (Butyrospermum parkii) Extract, Handcrafted Shea (Butyrospermum parkii) Butter, Cetearyl Alcohol (and) Behentrimonium Chloride, Emulsifying Wax, Palm Stearic Acid, Lavender Essential Oil, Phenoxyethanol, Potassium Sorbate, Citric Acid.

I think I need to dilute it though. Very thick, and even though it's a huge bottle it's kind of expensive.

I was very sad, I had read great things about Kirkland brand conditioner, then I got there and it was chock full of cones. I guess the one I'd been reading about was an old version.

[juicy-glitter]

My ends almost seem dryer from CO washing..... Whats the deal? I dont use protein and already clarified, am I not using a strong enough conditioner?

[brave]

What are you doing for leave-in?

[afu]

juicy-glitter try adding some conditioner as a leave in to damp hair, or some oil.

My Tesco smooth coconut finally ran out today after 3 months (undiluted!), my next wash will be a clarify using baking soda then I'll start on Morrisons jojoba. The morrisons conditioner is a lot thicker so what ive done is put half of it into my empty Tesco bottle and added a little water to make it the same sort of consistancy as the Tesco one was, its still no more than 1/5th water though. Suze2012 have you tried it yet?

[caadam]

Hey, COers!

I'm thinking of hanging around this thread (again, because I used to CO about a year ago) because I'm starting to consider COing. I've been WO for about four months, but while there was a lot of benefits in being WO... I couldn't seem to get rid of a lot of the cons, at least in my case. It works for some, but it didn't seem to be working out for me. Sad, but oh well.

I did a CO a few days ago after a heavy oiling session, and my hair and scalp were super happy afterward. My hair was soft and slick and shiny, and my scalp was actually totally free of dandruff for the first time in months! :cheese:

[caadam]

My ends almost seem dryer from CO washing..... Whats the deal? I dont use protein and already clarified, am I not using a strong enough conditioner?

Some conditioners will leave hair dry. *nods* However, like afu said, you could use your condtioner as a leave-in (or another leave-in product if you'd like), or use an oil. My Suave Rosemary & Mint conditioner is a very nice leave-in (when I was COing regularly). I didn't have to use a lot, and my hair soaked it up. When my hair was dry, my length would always be silky smooth. :)

I also find EVOO to be an oil that leaves my hair very soft. However, if I use too much, it'll sit on my hair and look oily. Jojoba oil also works nicely.

[EndlessSunshine]

Thats awesome!

[firegypsy]

I had to shampoo again. My hair looked horrid and I just CO'd yesterday. I'm thinking it may well be time to clarify. I'm going to pick up the neutrogena shampoo I guess...unless there's a better choice?

I haven't gotten rid of cones yet, so I guess it's time. Now we'll see if my hair loves them or not!

[Thenolegirl]

CO wash #3 for me yesterday=)

I used V05 Extra Body Conditioner and used even less than the first two attempts with more focus on diluting it for the final scrub through. I had semi-heavily oiled my hair with coconut oil a few hours before and stuck it under a plastic shower cap.

I don't know if it was the oil before or no cones/sulfates or even the product itself but everything is going RIGHT! My hair is slick, shiny and about 99% of crunchy ends is gone. It was light and airy but not dry and felt thicker somehow. It was so soft I couldn't help but just kinda pet my hair because it was so out of the norm for me. I didn't even comb it after it was dry - the tangles just fell out by themselves. This morning my hair is still soft, feels clean when I gently massage my scalp, and my length feels moisturized, but not from product. I didn't add extra oil (even though my hair was a bit frizzy yesterday) and I don't think I need to today.

Oh I pray this is how my CO relationship is going to stay! lol :p

[brave]

http://i.imgur.com/kxyJH.jpg

I'm so excited and I just can't hide it
I'm about to lose control and I think I like it
I'm so excited and I just can't hide it
And I know I know I know I know I know I want no poo

[afu]

I had to shampoo again. My hair looked horrid and I just CO'd yesterday. I'm thinking it may well be time to clarify. I'm going to pick up the neutrogena shampoo I guess...unless there's a better choice?

I haven't gotten rid of cones yet, so I guess it's time. Now we'll see if my hair loves them or not!

I just use baking soda to clarify, I don't see the point in buying a bottle of shampoo which i'll only use a few time a year when I have something already which does the job

[firegypsy]

baking soda about killed my hair when I used to use it. is clarifying shampoo going to be more gentle, or just as abrasive?

after clarifying...can I just condition as usual?

[Alexblue]

If you live in an area with hard water you might also want to consider a chelating shampoo which also works as a clarifying shampoo. You don't need to use it very often but personally it brought my ragged hair back to life!

[firegypsy]

I have pretty hard water. What is a good shampoo for chelation?

[kitschy]

I have pretty hard water. What is a good shampoo for chelation?

A rinse of Club Soda works well for chelation. Cheap and effective.

[firegypsy]

that is fascinating.

I'm interested to see if vo5 works any better for me after I clarify...I also got some mineral oil which I'm kind of excited about.

[Henrietta]

After a couple of weeks during which I mostly COed because I felt like it I am back to shampoo. There's just too much scalp residue for me. I mean, I knew that CO is not for me, I wanted to throw in 1 CO per every 3-4 shampooings but lately my hair needed more of COing. Now it has enough for some time :)
Also, I doscovered that the blue Tesco HBM condish is not that dense, so I prefer the orange one as I can dilute it and have twice as much.

[Alexblue]

I use Joico chelating shampoo which is also good is you swim in a chlorine pool. It's not pricey for a massive bottle and, as I said, you probably will not need it too often.

[afu]

Oh CO washing how I love you - today I had to shampoo so that I could put a toner on my hair (directions - left on for 4 hours and doesn't look any different!) - the result was super tangly hair :( normally my hair hardly tangles at all, after showering I can whip a TT through in a matter of seconds. Today it took me ages to carefully finger comb and TT the whole lot. Really makes me appreciate CO and realise that it really is the perfect wash technique for me

[LaFlor]

I have a question:

Is it possible to build a co-wash into a regular washing routine? I am trying to stretch my washes and I use pantene (gasp! my hair loves it). I was really wanting to get it down to one wash a week with that. I was wondering if it's possible to add a co-wash during the week? I know the mix of cones and proteins sound problematic, but does it make much of a difference if it is only one co-wash? Any ideas?

[brave]

I think you could co-wash with pantene without too many problems. I used pantene's various conditioners as my cowash conditioners for several years before realizing my hair was flattened because I never used shampoo. Woops. Using a shampoo that gets rid of cones along with the occasional co-wash should be fine, and gentler on your hair.

[cmg]

Yes, once or twice is not going to kill your hair. And also I think it would be a good idea to change brands now and then. The new one might take care of residue the other one is not so good at and so on.

/ CMG

[Lauren710]

Can I jump in and ask an annoying question? I'm definitely searching this thread/forum for info also, but I figure I might get more specific answers if I ask (and considering this thread is 500 pages it's going to take me a while to work through it!).

How long should I give CO washing before I decide if it's right for me or not? Is there an adjustment period (days? weeks?) that I should expect, or did most of you decide it was great right away? My hair is still kind of a mess and my scalp is oily, but it's only been two days. I'm planning to clarify today (my water is kind of hard, just picked up a chelating shampoo) followed by SMT to see if that makes a difference, and then continue with the CO washing.

[cmg]

Can I jump in and ask an annoying question? I'm definitely searching this thread/forum for info also, but I figure I might get more specific answers if I ask (and considering this thread is 500 pages it's going to take me a while to work through it!).

How long should I give CO washing before I decide if it's right for me or not? Is there an adjustment period (days? weeks?) that I should expect, or did most of you decide it was great right away? My hair is still kind of a mess and my scalp is oily, but it's only been two days. I'm planning to clarify today (my water is kind of hard, just picked up a chelating shampoo) followed by SMT to see if that makes a difference, and then continue with the CO washing.
There is no such thing as an annoying question :)

For me personally there was no adjusting period, but I think I am in a minority there. From what I have read most people seem to have some adjustment going on for the first two months or so for the longest. Many also experience great results in the very beginning, followed by an adjustment period.

I also think you might feel pretty soon after a couple of washes if your condish isnt working for you. I would try another one after say one or two weeks perhaps. Also if your hair used to like protein before you started CO-wash, this can change after starting to do so. Its a trial and error thing. Be very careful about the ingredients. Some might work for others, but not for you etc.

Also remember, the frizz and tangling you might experience comes from the original condition of your hair without covering coating products. Dont dispare, if it looks really bad initially! It will get better after some time.

Good Luck with the CO!
/ CMG

[Thenolegirl]

Can I jump in and ask an annoying question? I'm definitely searching this thread/forum for info also, but I figure I might get more specific answers if I ask (and considering this thread is 500 pages it's going to take me a while to work through it!).

How long should I give CO washing before I decide if it's right for me or not? Is there an adjustment period (days? weeks?) that I should expect, or did most of you decide it was great right away? My hair is still kind of a mess and my scalp is oily, but it's only been two days. I'm planning to clarify today (my water is kind of hard, just picked up a chelating shampoo) followed by SMT to see if that makes a difference, and then continue with the CO washing.

I had a tough time while I was away using college apartment hard water and COing. I didn't clarify, I didn't section my hair, and I used way too much conditioner in my washes - so I'm ready to try again in a few months with the water there. You're off to a much better start then I was! lol

This is Co wash #4 for me. I used V05 Kiwi Lime and coconut oiled beforehand. I will see what the results are for this one =) I LOVE that my hair doesn't feel gunky after the shower anymore.

[Lauren710]

There is no such thing as an annoying question :)

For me personally there was no adjusting period, but I think I am in a minority there. From what I have read most people seem to have some adjustment going on for the first two months or so for the longest. Many also experience great results in the very beginning, followed by an adjustment period.

I also think you might feel pretty soon after a couple of washes if your condish isnt working for you. I would try another one after say one or two weeks perhaps. Also if your hair used to like protein before you started CO-wash, this can change after starting to do so. Its a trial and error thing. Be very careful about the ingredients. Some might work for others, but not for you etc.

Also remember, the frizz and tangling you might experience comes from the original condition of your hair without covering coating products. Dont dispare, if it looks really bad initially! It will get better after some time.

Good Luck with the CO!
/ CMG

Awesome, thank you! :) I've started off with VO5 just because it's the cheapest I could find, so if it doesn't work out for me I'll try something different. Frizz and tangling are the story of my life anyway, I'm hoping CO will help once I get settled into a good routine with the right products.

[mduggan]

Hi again!
I posted a second blog entry, with pictures, after using a different conditioner combination. Here's the link, for those interested:
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/blog.php?b=100666

Happy washing!

*Note: This wash took place several days ago, but it takes me this long to get pictures edited and put up. In a day or two it will already be time to wash again!*

Dragon Faery,

I'm quite new to this forum and am not sure how to access everything, but I am unable to read your blog - link gives me the message that I don't have permission to do so.

suggestions?

[mduggan]

firegypsy, sorry for the delay. I didn't ignore your questions; I just have very limited internet right now. :p

How to tell if your hair is overmoisturized: when you wash it, find a shed hair, hold with both hands, and give it a pull. If it snaps immediately, your hair is too dry. If it stretches easily, or for a long time before snapping, your hair is overmoisturized and needs a bit of protein. If it's hard to stretch or snap, or if it stretches a bit and then snaps, it's probably in fairly balanced condition.
At least, I think that's how it works. Hopefully someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

And like luxepiggy said, cones won't kill you. They're just a matter of preference for your hair. Some people get healthier, shinier, silkier hair with cones. My hair seems to dislike them, and gets very frizzy and dry, yet won't absorb any oils. Without cones it just drinks up oil. So it's all about finding what works best for your hair.

:)

GREAT description! thanks so much :)

[Khiwanean]

Dragon Faery,

I'm quite new to this forum and am not sure how to access everything, but I am unable to read your blog - link gives me the message that I don't have permission to do so.

suggestions?
You'll be able to access blogs once you have 25 posts.

ETA: You can find a detailed explaination of user permissions here: http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=68519.

[mduggan]

You'll be able to access blogs once you have 25 posts.

ETA: You can find a detailed explaination of user permissions here: http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=68519.

thanks, Khiwanean :-)

on a related note.... I did my first CO two days ago. I had used Jojobo oil overnight in my braid but had no trouble at all getting out the oil. I left the conditioner in for at least 20 minutes. I love the results, my husband loves the results, and my 24-year old daughter even noticed the difference... I used the pretty popular V05 kiwi lime. My ends were still a little dry, so I have used apricot EO on them..

I want to add a heavier conditioner for my ends and am looking for suggestions...tomorrow is shopping day as I plan to CO again.

ideas, anyone?

[firegypsy]

did you apply the co to dry hair and just wait 20 minutes before getting in the shower?

[mduggan]

did you apply the co to dry hair and just wait 20 minutes before getting in the shower?


I read through the general instructions in the thread first... then wet the hair in the shower - lots of warm water - then added the CO. I massaged it into my scalp slowly, made sure my entire head and hair felt slick, then put it all up under a plastic cap for 20 minutes or so while I did other things.

My hair is wonderfully soft and full, feeling thicker...just the ends are now a bit dry.

[firegypsy]

I've tried a few different methods at this point and had some work better than others. When someone has success I'm always curious about what they did!

I'm clarifying tomorrow for the first time. I'm scared! :p

I think I'll condition first, then clarify...then condition again. I'll oil tonight too.

[mduggan]

I've tried a few different methods at this point and had some work better than others. When someone has success I'm always curious about what they did!

I'm clarifying tomorrow for the first time. I'm scared! :p

I think I'll condition first, then clarify...then condition again. I'll oil tonight too.


I believe the V05 Kiwi Lime Squeeze is a clarifying conditioner - at least the bottle says it is. I am not sure if that means one clarifies when using that as the CO?

so much to learn! :-)

[firegypsy]

I hope not. I have a vo5 conditioner that is NOT working at all....and I'm hoping using the clarifying shampoo will change that!

I have been SLS free for years, but I still use cones. They needs to get out. :)

[Thenolegirl]

I read through the general instructions in the thread first... then wet the hair in the shower - lots of warm water - then added the CO. I massaged it into my scalp slowly, made sure my entire head and hair felt slick, then put it all up under a plastic cap for 20 minutes or so while I did other things.

My hair is wonderfully soft and full, feeling thicker...just the ends are now a bit dry.

My hair feels thicker too since CO =)

I used V05 Kiwi Lime today and now that my hair is dry, it feels OK. My hair feels really, really clean. But on the other hand, the top layer of my hair is feeling coarse and only the tiniest bit dry. I think it may clean a little too well for me. I'm doing a rotation between three so I'm gonna see if I get repeat results from Passion Fruit Smoothie and Extra Body - both gave me AWESOME results. I think I'll reserve the Kiwi-Lime for when I do a heavy oiling or had an intense workout.

Ever since I clarified with a simple clarifying shampoo and went sulfate and cone free - my ends have never felt better. Thanks LHC! Now will this stay this way? lol

[CurlyCurves]

I co wash :D

Up until yesterday, I hadn't used shampoo on my hair for months. I only used ACV every time I felt like I had build up.

However, ACV is not enough (I recently read that it doesn't clarify your hair :confused:), so I will be buying a SLS free shampoo and/or a clarifying shampoo to use once a month, or week, to be followed up with a DC.

I would love to use a cone free co, but having tried many of the expensive cone free/organic brands (AO, Giovannia, etc), none of them are moisturising enough :confused:

However, Tresemme seems to work fine on my hair, so I will be buying the naturals line.

[Lauren710]

Oh I've learned something new already from searching this thread. Many many pages back someone mentioned having greasies and cystic acne on their scalp with VO5 Strawberries and Cream, I've been using that flavor of VO5 and found the exact same thing today.. Looks like that one might not agree with me, I can tough out the grease but not the acne. I wonder if it's the protein or something else? Regardless, I picked up another conditioner to try (365 lavender - Whole Foods is closer to my house than any pharmacy).

[Dragon Faery]

GREAT description! thanks so much :)

Thank you! :)

And khiwanean is right about needing 25 posts to access the blogs section. You'll get there soon! :) Welcome to LHC! :flower:

[Dragon Faery]

thanks, Khiwanean :-)

on a related note.... I did my first CO two days ago. I had used Jojobo oil overnight in my braid but had no trouble at all getting out the oil. I left the conditioner in for at least 20 minutes. I love the results, my husband loves the results, and my 24-year old daughter even noticed the difference... I used the pretty popular V05 kiwi lime. My ends were still a little dry, so I have used apricot EO on them..

I want to add a heavier conditioner for my ends and am looking for suggestions...tomorrow is shopping day as I plan to CO again.

ideas, anyone?

Personal favorites of mine include Nature's Gate brand Chamomile, Desert Essence brand Coconut, and Giovanni brand Deeper Moisture (or something like that). Of these the coconut is the heaviest and most moisturizing, and the Giovanni makes my hair feel the silkiest. Dunno what it does for other people, though.
A lot of people in this thread like Aubrey Organics Honeysuckle Rose conditioner, as well.
And Garnier's Triple Nutrition gets mentioned frequently, too. I haven't used either of these so I can't give personal feedback, but they seem to work for a lot of people.
If you can't find any of those, try just browsing the conditioner section of a health food store and looking for conditioners that claim to be for dry hair. Those are generally thickest. :)


My hair feels thicker too since CO =)

I used V05 Kiwi Lime today and now that my hair is dry, it feels OK. My hair feels really, really clean. But on the other hand, the top layer of my hair is feeling coarse and only the tiniest bit dry. I think it may clean a little too well for me. I'm doing a rotation between three so I'm gonna see if I get repeat results from Passion Fruit Smoothie and Extra Body - both gave me AWESOME results. I think I'll reserve the Kiwi-Lime for when I do a heavy oiling or had an intense workout.


Ever since I clarified with a simple clarifying shampoo and went sulfate and cone free - my ends have never felt better. Thanks LHC! Now will this stay this way? lol

Strawberris and Cream by V05 is more moisturizing, but note the caveat below. If that scares you, the V05 Shea Cashmere is a little more moisturizing, as well. It's one of my favorites.
I haven't tried any "cleansing" conditioners other than the V05, so I can't comment personally, but a lot of people also like Suave Tropical Coconut. I finally bought a bottle, but I haven't tried it yet.


Oh I've learned something new already from searching this thread. Many many pages back someone mentioned having greasies and cystic acne on their scalp with VO5 Strawberries and Cream, I've been using that flavor of VO5 and found the exact same thing today.. Looks like that one might not agree with me, I can tough out the grease but not the acne. I wonder if it's the protein or something else? Regardless, I picked up another conditioner to try (365 lavender - Whole Foods is closer to my house than any pharmacy).

Goodness! I somehow missed this comment when I read through this thread before. Thanks for the heads up! :) It seems to work ok for me, but I tend to use a different set of conditioners every wash, so that may be why.

[Dragon Faery]

Welcome also to CurlyCurves and Lauren710! It's good to have you with us! :flower:

[luxepiggy]

Whew! This thread moves fast! (*(oo)*)

I'm coming up on my 1-year CO anniversary at the end of the month! Yey! \(^(oo)^)/

[Ookami]

CO washing since a few months now and managed over the last 3 weeks for the first time ever to move from daily washing to once/twice a week !
I also try to dilute CO.

Before a CO wash once a week at least I leave overnight coconut oil in hair as I realized my hair is actually not greasy but dry!

I'm a bit lost in all CO brands to be honest :D.

[afu]

I clarified yesterday (ooo yuk, i hate you shampoo) and am off to visit family for a few days - time to experiment with whatever conditioners they own! tehe

[mduggan]

Oh I've learned something new already from searching this thread. Many many pages back someone mentioned having greasies and cystic acne on their scalp with VO5 Strawberries and Cream, I've been using that flavor of VO5 and found the exact same thing today.. Looks like that one might not agree with me, I can tough out the grease but not the acne. I wonder if it's the protein or something else? Regardless, I picked up another conditioner to try (365 lavender - Whole Foods is closer to my house than any pharmacy).

When i last checked the ingredients for VO5 Strawberries and Cream I believe I saw soy protein. I am very allergic to soy - makes me itch and gives me a rash. Perhaps you are allergic to soy? Just something to consider.


CO washing since a few months now and managed over the last 3 weeks for the first time ever to move from daily washing to once/twice a week !
I also try to dilute CO.

Before a CO wash once a week at least I leave overnight coconut oil in hair as I realized my hair is actually not greasy but dry!

I'm a bit lost in all CO brands to be honest :D.

so much to learn about CO...and so many postings :-)

One thing I have tried this week: Sometimes I lightly oil my hair at night, then in the morning put my hair in a bun or braid, then go to Jazzercise (dance aerobics class). The heat from the workout seems to help the oils permeate...and, after all, I'll be showering anyway......

Off to jazzercise class...then to the store to look for some of Dragon Faery's suggestions...

[Lauren710]

Goodness! I somehow missed this comment when I read through this thread before. Thanks for the heads up! :) It seems to work ok for me, but I tend to use a different set of conditioners every wash, so that may be why.

You're welcome :) I left a bit in the ends of my hair yesterday morning and by the evening my face was starting to break out where my hair brushes against it! My skin must be really reactive to something in it.


When i last checked the ingredients for VO5 Strawberries and Cream I believe I saw soy protein. I am very allergic to soy - makes me itch and gives me a rash. Perhaps you are allergic to soy? Just something to consider.

I wonder if it's possible to be sensitive to something on your skin only? I rotate soy, dairy, and almond milk and never noticed any problems from drinking it or eating other soy-based foods, but my skin really freaked out with the conditioner. Hm.

My hair seemed to like the 365 conditioner but it took FOREVER! to wash out, I actually gave up last night and continued rinsing this morning! My hair seemed to like it, it was less frizzy but most of my waves were also gone when it dried, especially in the shortest layers (about chin-length) :(

I think maybe I'll try diluting this condish for CO washing and using a little full-strength as a leave in on the ends. It seems like my hair is low porosity (a shed hair floats in a container of water indefinitely) but it's also fine and quite thick, and I'd really like to encourage my baby waves to do their thing, so I'm going to be on a mission to find something both lightweight and moisturizing - does that even exist in a cone-free CO-friendly formulation?? :confused:

[Lauren710]

One thing I have tried this week: Sometimes I lightly oil my hair at night, then in the morning put my hair in a bun or braid, then go to Jazzercise (dance aerobics class). The heat from the workout seems to help the oils permeate...and, after all, I'll be showering anyway.....

Oh that's clever! I'm going to try it the next time I run :)

[brave]

Personal favorites of mine include Nature's Gate brand Chamomile, Desert Essence brand Coconut, and Giovanni brand Deeper Moisture (or something like that). Of these the coconut is the heaviest and most moisturizing, and the Giovanni makes my hair feel the silkiest. Dunno what it does for other people, though.
A lot of people in this thread like Aubrey Organics Honeysuckle Rose conditioner, as well.
And Garnier's Triple Nutrition gets mentioned frequently, too. I haven't used either of these so I can't give personal feedback, but they seem to work for a lot of people.
If you can't find any of those, try just browsing the conditioner section of a health food store and looking for conditioners that claim to be for dry hair. Those are generally thickest. :)


I believe the Aubrey Organics HR and Garnier Triple Nutrition have both been reformulated. AOHR claims they just rewrote the ingredients list, but members here think it's a different formula, and Triple Nutrition added cones. :mad: So be sure to read the ingredients of whatever you end up choosing.

[Henrietta]

I believe the Aubrey Organics HR and Garnier Triple Nutrition have both been reformulated. AOHR claims they just rewrote the ingredients list, but members here think it's a different formula, and Triple Nutrition added cones. :mad: So be sure to read the ingredients of whatever you end up choosing.

Phalenopsis did a YT video on AO changing the ingredients (she wrote an e-mail to them, yaaay for fighting for consumers' rights!) if you'd more info on this. She's FieryPha on YT ;)

[Ookami]

One thing I have tried this week: Sometimes I lightly oil my hair at night, then in the morning put my hair in a bun or braid, then go to Jazzercise (dance aerobics class). The heat from the workout seems to help the oils permeate...and, after all, I'll be showering anyway......

I usually shower in the morning after a vigorous walk with the dog, however I can't see myself with a bun or braid , people might wonder how this guy is running around with hair wrapped like a princess :D but I take the tip ;), will probably resort to wear my hooded jacket and jumpers more often in the morning...

[Ookami]

edit mode *why this guy is running*

[DarkCurls]

Anyone want to answer this (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20120615065401AAhYs8V)?

*sigh* Some people think not shampooing every day is gross... I wonder how the people I know would react if I told them I CO-washed.
But I don't mind, my hair has never looked better! Everyone is complimenting it... even my mother, who used to be always on my back asking me to brush it/straighten it.

[luxepiggy]

I wonder if it's possible to be sensitive to something on your skin only? I rotate soy, dairy, and almond milk and never noticed any problems from drinking it or eating other soy-based foods, but my skin really freaked out with the conditioner. Hm.

Absolutely. Coconut oil gave me horrible breakouts (I normally have clear skin) but I successfully used up the remainder of my jar for cooking with no issues whatsoever :)

[Ookami]

Yeah sure you can react to the same thing very differently depending how it's used...
My partner is allergic to raw courgettes (but really really bad, he ended up in hospital) but not to cooked...

[Lauren710]

Absolutely. Coconut oil gave me horrible breakouts (I normally have clear skin) but I successfully used up the remainder of my jar for cooking with no issues whatsoever :)


Yeah sure you can react to the same thing very differently depending how it's used...
My partner is allergic to raw courgettes (but really really bad, he ended up in hospital) but not to cooked...

Interesting *strokes nonexistent goatee* Well, now I know to avoid soy in my hair/face/skin products!

[LaFlor]

I think you could co-wash with pantene without too many problems. I used pantene's various conditioners as my cowash conditioners for several years before realizing my hair was flattened because I never used shampoo. Woops. Using a shampoo that gets rid of cones along with the occasional co-wash should be fine, and gentler on your hair.

Thanks for the reply!

I decided to give it a try today to see if it will help me combat the greasies until my regular wash on Sunday. I had some suave coconut laying around for SMT use, so I used that instead of the pantene. Hair passed the squeak test and looks clean... but it looks darker than when I shampoo and is taking FOREVER to dry. But I think it's still better than sitting around with greasy hair for a few more days :)

I was hoping to do a co-wash midweek and then do my regular pantene wash on the weekend. I've heard of others doing something similar, but usually without cones. I hope it works out!

[luxepiggy]

Thanks for the reply!

I decided to give it a try today to see if it will help me combat the greasies until my regular wash on Sunday. I had some suave coconut laying around for SMT use, so I used that instead of the pantene. Hair passed the squeak test and looks clean... but it looks darker than when I shampoo and is taking FOREVER to dry. But I think it's still better than sitting around with greasy hair for a few more days :)

I was hoping to do a co-wash midweek and then do my regular pantene wash on the weekend. I've heard of others doing something similar, but usually without cones. I hope it works out!

FWIW, I use Pantene Ice Shine conditioner as part of my CO-wash routine with no issues.

[pandora114]

Got some Mane and Tail today to start CO washing. No cones...it's also texturizing so it might help my skinny hair put on some weight.

[mduggan]

Got some Mane and Tail today to start CO washing. No cones...it's also texturizing so it might help my skinny hair put on some weight.

ooohh.. I saw Mane and Tail today when I was out and almost picked it up...Instead I chose a Tresemme product... keep us posted on M & T, please :-)

[pandora114]

Will do. I looked at the ingredients and there are absolutely no cones at all. It's got a bit of protein though so if your hair is sensitive to it, be aware. Mine isn't, mine soaks it right up, heck I put egg white in my henna mix for an extra kick..helps so much.

[brave]

Got some Mane and Tail today to start CO washing. No cones...it's also texturizing so it might help my skinny hair put on some weight.

Don't you love how thick it is too? I miss a good thick squishy conditioner sometimes.

[GRU]

Just watch for protein build-up with Mane-n-Tail... if your hair starts getting brittle, switch it out with a moisture-based product instead.

[Alexblue]

Yeah sure you can react to the same thing very differently depending how it's used...
My partner is allergic to raw courgettes (but really really bad, he ended up in hospital) but not to cooked...

It also depends what it's used with. Years ago I had a bad reaction to Vit E oil and swelled up like an inflatable lobster. I had used countless Vit E products throughout my life so was very surprised. My doctor said it may not have been the Vit E oil in and of itself but it's reaction with something else on my skin: the residue left by my moisturiser that morning, my shampoo along my hairline (that was before switching to CO), my perfume....anything really. Allergic reactions are difficult to pinpoint though, of course, better safe than sorry. Never used that oil again.

[pandora114]

Just watch for protein build-up with Mane-n-Tail... if your hair starts getting brittle, switch it out with a moisture-based product instead.


Well my usual thing is Tre-Semme naturals volumizing stuff. The low fate/no cone volumizer..my hair hasn't been brittle and I've been using it since it's come out. Volumizing stuff usually has extra protien in it doesn't it?

[silverthread]

Anyone here tried the new L'Oreal cone-free conditioner. It's a bit pricy, so I wanted to know if anyone with fine, non-porous hair has tried it and how it worked for you.

[GRU]

Well my usual thing is Tre-Semme naturals volumizing stuff. The low fate/no cone volumizer..my hair hasn't been brittle and I've been using it since it's come out. Volumizing stuff usually has extra protien in it doesn't it?

I would have no clue.... the LAST thing my head needs is "more volume"!!!! :lol:

Just from a scientific standpoint, though, I would think that voluminizing products would be designed to lift the cuticle to make each strand "bigger". Again, that's the last thing my hair needs! ;)

[pandora114]

yeah, mine is rather flat and blah without any help. I mean Crystal Gayle type hair. So yeah any boost in texture/volume I will gladly take. Heck, before a special event I even use a blow dryer and my curling wand to give myself some extra body. lol

[mduggan]

I just tried the TREsemme Nourishing Moisture for my dry ends. I had a hard time choosing between volume and moisture... decided the ends were more important today....

I'll know more once my hair dries..... also tried V05 Tea Therapy...

[mduggan]

OH! an added benefit!!!!! I am not sure if this is due to the various oils, the additional evening primrose, or the additional biotin, but my eyelashes are longer!

[luxepiggy]

Well my usual thing is Tre-Semme naturals volumizing stuff. The low fate/no cone volumizer..my hair hasn't been brittle and I've been using it since it's come out. Volumizing stuff usually has extra protien in it doesn't it?

Most volumizing products contain something that slightly increases the amount of friction between hair fibers, in order to prevent them from aligning closely together. Sometimes it's protein, sometimes it's some other polymer.

[luxepiggy]

I would have no clue.... the LAST thing my head needs is "more volume"!!!! :lol:

Just from a scientific standpoint, though, I would think that voluminizing products would be designed to lift the cuticle to make each strand "bigger". Again, that's the last thing my hair needs! ;)

I've been known to purchase "straightening" hair care products . . . I know, I'm weird. It made sense in my head at the time, I swear (^(oo)^)`

[GRU]

I've been known to purchase "straightening" hair care products . . . I know, I'm weird. It made sense in my head at the time, I swear (^(oo)^)`

:lol: Such a silly little piggy!

[afu]

I'm staying with my mother and sisters at the moment visiting family and i was looking forward to trying out a new conditioner or two during my stay - sure enough the bathroom is filled with about 10 bottles of conditioner, and every bottle contains cones and protein :( Looks like im off to buy conditioner tomorrow - I can forsee a disaster if i let that protein anywhere near my hair!

[cmg]

I keep reading here that the Triple Nutrition has changed ingredients. I looked at the ones on the shelves here and they havent changed here yet. No cones yet. Perhaps I should buy some before they change here too.

/ CMG

[CurlyCap]

I love co-washing, but I'm already starting to lament how much conditioner my hair eats. I got through 3+ bottles of VO5 a week. It's not undoable, VO5 is cheap here and so it doesn't make me feel guilty.

Thing is, my hair is still relatively short. I remember my biggest complaint when my hair was long was how much money I spent on conditioner. Back then I was using coney stuff that was more expensive (humectress, hello hydration). Sometimes I'd wince when I loaded up my cart at the store!

Any tips on the conditioners that pack the most punch in terms of moisture? And, miraculously, are still cone and protein free?

[brave]

I love co-washing, but I'm already starting to lament how much conditioner my hair eats. I got through 3+ bottles of VO5 a week. It's not undoable, VO5 is cheap here and so it doesn't make me feel guilty.

Thing is, my hair is still relatively short. I remember my biggest complaint when my hair was long was how much money I spent on conditioner. Back then I was using coney stuff that was more expensive (humectress, hello hydration). Sometimes I'd wince when I loaded up my cart at the store!

Any tips on the conditioners that pack the most punch in terms of moisture? And, miraculously, are still cone and protein free?
Everyday Shea makes big bottles of cone/protein free conditioners, but it's around 10$ for the large bottle. Maybe it would dilute down quite a bit and still be moisturizing though. It's not the slickest conditioner out there but again that might be fixed with diluting.

[pandora114]

well I did my CO wash with Mane and Tail today. My hair feels more substantial, like not GREASY, it passed the squeak test upon rinsing, but just thicker. my braid feels more substantial too. I put some Coconut oil on my hands while I braided it out of the shower (I can't do anything with my hair while dry..at all..except a ponytail) No crunch..and just a few sheds. So Day 1 of Mane and Tail on my super thinny/limp hair seems to be a good day.

[Cafe au Lait]

Has anyone used Suave Sun-Ripened Strawberry? I started using it, I wasn't too impressed, but I wanted to use the last of it and not "waste" it. However today I found my hairline had broken out, and found a few sores on my scalp! I guess I just reacted to something in it?

Also, has anyone used VO5 Shea Cashmere for CO?

[Neecola]

Has anyone used Suave Sun-Ripened Strawberry? I started using it, I wasn't too impressed, but I wanted to use the last of it and not "waste" it. However today I found my hairline had broken out, and found a few sores on my scalp! I guess I just reacted to something in it?

Also, has anyone used VO5 Shea Cashmere for CO?

I use the shea cashmere for CO (alternating with Trader Joe's tea tree tingle). I really like it. I prefer both the ingredients and mild fragrance to the other VO5s. I've only been using it for about 2 weeks but so far, so good.

[Cafe au Lait]

I use the shea cashmere for CO (alternating with Trader Joe's tea tree tingle). I really like it. I prefer both the ingredients and mild fragrance to the other VO5s. I've only been using it for about 2 weeks but so far, so good.

Thanks! I think I'm going to try it next. Does it have protein in it?

Is using a conditioner w/protein bad, or give you protein overload? Or is effect negligible?

[afu]

Is using a conditioner w/protein bad, or give you protein overload? Or is effect negligible?

It totally depends on your hair, the key is in 'listening' to your hair - always pay attention to the protein/moisture content of your hair and adjust appropriatly. If you hair is feeling brittle and/or dry avoid protein. Some hair just never really needs protein (such as mine) so I avoid all protein in conditioners. Some people can tolerate it more but (correct me if im wrong) not many people use a protein conditioner for every CO wash, most rotate it with something more moisturising.

[Sunshineliz]

It totally depends on your hair, the key is in 'listening' to your hair - always pay attention to the protein/moisture content of your hair and adjust appropriatly. If you hair is feeling brittle and/or dry avoid protein. Some hair just never really needs protein (such as mine) so I avoid all protein in conditioners. Some people can tolerate it more but (correct me if im wrong) not many people use a protein conditioner for every CO wash, most rotate it with something more moisturising.

I agree. While protein can help many people (especially if their hair is limp and overmoisturized) protein overload is not something you want. It is better to err on the side of moisture because that is fairly easy to fix--protein treatment or a few protein washes. Protein overload is harder to fix and takes longer. DD11 had this problem a few months ago when she was using a protein conditioner exclusively.

Again, hair is individual, but I'd take overmoisturization over protein overload any day. Gee, did I say "over" enough?

In fact, I think I'm overmoisturized right now *starts looking for the protein conditioner*

[firegypsy]

okay....how do I look for protein on the label if I want to avoid it?

I'm assuming vo5 does NOT have it?

[Cafe au Lait]

What is a super moisturizing non-cone conditioner for CO-washing? Bonus if it's cheap and readily available. I don't have a Trader Joe's around me. :(

Everything I've tried so far is okay, but meh. I want something super super moisturizing, as I'm still trying to help my dry hair that is heat damaged.

[Sunshineliz]

okay....how do I look for protein on the label if I want to avoid it?

I'm assuming vo5 does NOT have it?

The one DD11 was using was a V05 variety. But not all V05s do. Basically look for--

amino acids
milk
egg
silk
wheat
hydrolized-anything
keratin
collagen

there may be other things, but that is what I'm remembering.

DD's conditioner said it was "strengthening" and anything with "strengthening" or "repair" in the description generally has protein.

[Cafe au Lait]

Wait, hydrolized-.. So my VO5 Kiwi Lime has protein? Awwww man, I never knew!

[Henrietta]

I washed away my cassia with CO and of course I have those irritating white dots on my scalp. Even if I can do it 2-3 times in a row without loosing too much hairs and too much build-up, I immediately get those white dots. So it seems like I can do CO just once in a row. (It's not even "in a row", technically :D ) Well, my length likes it but since there are problems up there, I will focus on CWC and throw in CO just once per every 5 CWCs or something.

[luxepiggy]

amino acids
milk
egg
silk
wheat
hydrolized-anything
keratin
collagen



A few more for the list:

sericin
pearl / conchiolin
oat
potato starch
elastin
soy
sweet almond
soy
rice

[firegypsy]

why can't these people just GET ON BOARD and use LHC lingo? I want to go to the market and be able to see "protein" "moisture" "silicone" "sulphates" etc ON THE FREAKIN' LABEL!

I like when life is easy. Now I have to go look at the conditioners I have in my house.

[Ookami]

why can't these people just GET ON BOARD and use LHC lingo? I want to go to the market and be able to see "protein" "moisture" "silicone" "sulphates" etc ON THE FREAKIN' LABEL!

I like when life is easy. Now I have to go look at the conditioners I have in my house.

:D Let's wish hard! When I read hair products labels I'm so so puzzled... Everything got complicate chemical formulas names...:D

[cmg]

A few more for the list:
sericin
pearl / conchiolin
oat
potato starch
elastin
soy
sweet almond
soy
rice

Sweet almond?

[luxepiggy]

Sweet almond?

"Indeed," said the little pig. Per Conditioning Agents for Hair and Skin (1999):

Hydrolyzed sweet almond protein . . . is conditioning by both penetration (of the polypeptides) and coating (by the oligosaccharides). In a leave-in product, enhancement of moisture retention and shine would thus be expected (31). Observable strengthening of damaged hair and protection of hair fibers would be expected at a use level similar to that required for hydrolyzed collagen.

[luxepiggy]

why can't these people just GET ON BOARD and use LHC lingo? I want to go to the market and be able to see "protein" "moisture" "silicone" "sulphates" etc ON THE FREAKIN' LABEL!

I like when life is easy. Now I have to go look at the conditioners I have in my house.

You should see the epic, all-encompassing protein ingredients list I've got. Barely squishes itself onto one page in tiny font! :p

[cmg]

OK, I was thinking, it should not be misinterpreted as sweet almond oil. In comparison, cocoanut oil is said to have a proteinlike effect in itself on some people, almond oil has not as far as I know.

/ CMG

[pandora114]

why can't these people just GET ON BOARD and use LHC lingo? I want to go to the market and be able to see "protein" "moisture" "silicone" "sulphates" etc ON THE FREAKIN' LABEL!

I like when life is easy. Now I have to go look at the conditioners I have in my house.


Allergies dear. unless they put the (protein) (cone) in brackets like that :( they legally have to put the actual ingredient name on the label due to people with allergies.

[luxepiggy]

OK, I was thinking, it should not be misinterpreted as sweet almond oil. In comparison, cocoanut oil is said to have a proteinlike effect in itself on some people, almond oil has not as far as I know.

/ CMG

Thanks for pointing it out! Since I don't use oils, it didn't even occur to me that someone might misinterpret it! d'oh (>(oo)<)`

[louzen]

why can't these people just GET ON BOARD and use LHC lingo? I want to go to the market and be able to see "protein" "moisture" "silicone" "sulphates" etc ON THE FREAKIN' LABEL!

I like when life is easy. Now I have to go look at the conditioners I have in my house.

He, he, funny you should say that as I went to the supermarket yesterday looking for a cone-free cheapish conditioner for CO washing and saw that tresemme have a new shampoo/conditoner line out called 'Naturals'. They have put the label 'Lower sulphates' and 'No silicones' on their shampoo and conditioner bottle respectively. Looks like they're starting to use our lingo :)

[firegypsy]

oh no, I don't mean do away with ingredients lists...just that on the front they should have this information as bullet points!

[Sunshineliz]

Remember that protein is not all bad. You may need it, and some people need it more than others, particularly those with damage--especially from coloring and permanents. But it is easy to overdo so it's good to be careful. Also check where it is on the list. It is hard to see how much of the conditioner is protein but it's position in the list should give you a general idea.

If you're unsure how your hair is being affected, do the stretch test (I think someone referenced it a few pages back--if not, here is another link (http://blackhairscience.com/hair_breakage.html). It says "black hair" but the information can be generally applied.) If you're overmoisturized, add protein. If you're normal, you could avoid it or add it every now and then. If you have protein overload already obviously avoid it.

[mduggan]

okay....how do I look for protein on the label if I want to avoid it?

I'm assuming vo5 does NOT have it?

Firegypsy,



Some V05s DO have protein...either silk or soy milk protein. The V05s on my shelf - without protein - are kiwi lime squeeze and Tea therapy calming chamomile. I'm sure there are others, but those are in front of me....

[firegypsy]

thank you!

[EndlessSunshine]

I know the Moister Milks VO5 line has soy protein. I am using the Strawberries and Cream and I like it.

[firegypsy]

that's the one I have. I was going to get off my duff and go check, so thanks for that!

[Cafe au Lait]

Firegypsy,



Some V05s DO have protein...either silk or soy milk protein. The V05s on my shelf - without protein - are kiwi lime squeeze and Tea therapy calming chamomile. I'm sure there are others, but those are in front of me....

But my bottle of Kiwi Lime says hydrolized in the ingredients list.. so doesn't it contain protein? :confused:

[Lauren710]

But my bottle of Kiwi Lime says hydrolized in the ingredients list.. so doesn't it contain protein? :confused:

I just looked up the ingredient list - it's hydrolized collagen, which is a protein, but it's pretty far down in the list so probably has less protein than the moisture milks?

[EndlessSunshine]

Hydrolyzed normally is followed by some sort of protein like wheat or collegen. I often wonder which is better? Silk, soy, etc...

[firegypsy]

I'm certain that would vary from person to person. :)

[Lauren710]

^^ Yup. As I have already discovered, soy is a no-go for my skin, but I'm going to try other types of protein.

[Cafe au Lait]

It seems I can't find a no-cone no-protein conditioner that my hair likes. I have several that contains protein for when I need it, but none that are working for me that don't contain protein. Maybe it's because my hair likes the protein in conditioner? It's dry and seems to like moisture, but I don't know..

I'm going to echo my plea from earlier for reccomendations for a super moisturizing conditioner that's good for CO-washing. Are the Trader Joe's conditioners super moisturizing (even though the Tea Tree one seems to have protein :rolleyes:)? I found out I'm going to be near a Trader Joe's tomorrow, so I will stock up..

Maybe I need to try the 2step conditioning method? As it is right now, I just put on the conditioner, massage it in, leave it on for around 10 minutes, then wash out and oil the ends. Some people appear to be using a second conditioner after from the ears down. There are so many different ways to try..

Sorry if I'm asking so many questions, but all the methods/options are overwhelming me.

[cmg]

oh no, I don't mean do away with ingredients lists...just that on the front they should have this information as bullet points!
They should have an extra label to peel away like Body Shop has :D *For LHC users: This product contains XYZ*

/ CMG

[cmg]

It's dry and seems to like moisture, but I don't know..
---------
I just put on the conditioner, massage it in, leave it on for around 10 minutes, then wash out and oil the ends. Some people appear to be using a second conditioner after from the ears down. There are so many different ways to try.
Do you really need to leave it in for 10 minutes? Perhaps this dryes your hair out a bit and you dont need to change conditioner, just the method?

I rarely have to leave the washing-conditioner in for very long. Not even when I oil my hair the night before. I am careful about the second conditioning conditioner though.

/ CMG

[Alexblue]

Quick question for everyone:

Do you find that some oils as deep treatments work better than others when using CO washing? I've seen a lot of different threads on oil pre-washes but those are mostly followed by shampoo or CWC. I'd like to avoid shampoo except the occasion clarifying shampoo but equally, EVOO and coconut oil (for example) are difficult to wash out with conditioner only. Perhaps it's the conditioner I'm using, or I need to leave it longer, massage more, etc. :ponder: but I wanted to see what others experienced for themselves.

[brave]

It seems I can't find a no-cone no-protein conditioner that my hair likes. I have several that contains protein for when I need it, but none that are working for me that don't contain protein. Maybe it's because my hair likes the protein in conditioner? It's dry and seems to like moisture, but I don't know..

I'm going to echo my plea from earlier for reccomendations for a super moisturizing conditioner that's good for CO-washing. Are the Trader Joe's conditioners super moisturizing (even though the Tea Tree one seems to have protein :rolleyes:)? I found out I'm going to be near a Trader Joe's tomorrow, so I will stock up..

Maybe I need to try the 2step conditioning method? As it is right now, I just put on the conditioner, massage it in, leave it on for around 10 minutes, then wash out and oil the ends. Some people appear to be using a second conditioner after from the ears down. There are so many different ways to try..

Sorry if I'm asking so many questions, but all the methods/options are overwhelming me.
I normally need a lot of conditioning, and the tea tree one seems to do it for me as long as I use some sort of leave in. Still perfecting it. I used their balance moisture one today and it seems ok. Both have proteins so I'm cautiously optimistic.

I do a modified two step usually -- wash with a light one like the tea tree, then use something heavier from ears down, and don't rinse.

[Cafe au Lait]

Quick question for everyone:

Do you find that some oils as deep treatments work better than others when using CO washing? I've seen a lot of different threads on oil pre-washes but those are mostly followed by shampoo or CWC. I'd like to avoid shampoo except the occasion clarifying shampoo but equally, EVOO and coconut oil (for example) are difficult to wash out with conditioner only. Perhaps it's the conditioner I'm using, or I need to leave it longer, massage more, etc. :ponder: but I wanted to see what others experienced for themselves.

I've been able to get heavy coconut oiling and sweet almond oiling out with CO washing only. What I do (and not sure if this is good or not), is after I do my scalp, I take my hair between my palms and kind of rub my palms together gently. I do this on my length where the oil is applied. I don't find that it hurts my hair or tangles it, as I'm very gentle. I could be wrong though. :shrug:

[Thenolegirl]

I've been able to get heavy coconut oiling and sweet almond oiling out with CO washing only. What I do (and not sure if this is good or not), is after I do my scalp, I take my hair between my palms and kind of rub my palms together gently. I do this on my length where the oil is applied. I don't find that it hurts my hair or tangles it, as I'm very gentle. I could be wrong though. :shrug:

I hope it's not damaging because this is what I do =) Gets coconut oil out great.

[Dovetail]

:3 it's been a while since I've stopped by, but I'm super excited to announce that after my CO img my ends are much softer and the individual hairs are even a bit thicker. The straw feeling they used to have is totally gone!

I did pick up some v05 kiwi lime squeeze at the dollar shop. I'm still pretty new at deciphering ingredients, could someone help me out? My husband was rushing me, and I vaugely recall seeing kiwi on the v05 no sulphate list, but I'm not sure about cones/protein and such...

Water (Aqua), Cetyl Alcohol, Cetrimonium Chloride, Stearalkonium Chloride, Stearyl Alcohol, Steareth-21, Glyceryl Stearate, Cymbopogon Schoenanthus Extract, Rosmarinus Officinalis (Rosemary) Leaf Extract, Actindia Chinensis (Kiwi) Fruit Extract, Citrus Aurantifolia (Lime) Peel Extract, Hydrolyzed Collagen, Tocopheryl Acetate, Biotin, Niacinamide, Polysorbate 20, Ascorbic Acid, Pantenol, Propylene Glycol, Benzophenone 4, DMDM Hydantoin, Disodium EDTA, Fragrance (Parfum), Blue 1 (Ci 42090), Yellow 5 (Ci 19140).

[Alexblue]

Thank CafeauLait and Thenolegirl. It's good to know it works for others. To be honest my hair tangles easily so I avoid handling the length as much as possible. But I'm going to try giving the lengths a bit more gentle scrubbing next time.

...not too rough of course :patrol:

[silverthread]

I've come to the realization that protein conditioner (Desert Essence green apple) and coconut conditioner (Suave) on my hair both give me finger-in-the-light-socket hair. So far, the Desert Essence Lemon Tea Tree gives me frizz-free results, but it is a heavy conditioner. I'm looking for something more watery, lighter as well. :confused: I'm considering Everyday Shea. It's fairly inexpensive and doesn't have any protein or cones. Has anyone tried it?

[GRU]

I've come to the realization that protein conditioner (Desert Essence green apple) and coconut conditioner (Suave) on my hair both give me finger-in-the-light-socket hair. So far, the Desert Essence Lemon Tea Tree gives me frizz-free results, but it is a heavy conditioner. I'm looking for something more watery, lighter as well. :confused: I'm considering Everyday Shea. It's fairly inexpensive and doesn't have any protein or cones. Has anyone tried it?


You can always water it down yourself....

[luxepiggy]

:3 it's been a while since I've stopped by, but I'm super excited to announce that after my CO img my ends are much softer and the individual hairs are even a bit thicker. The straw feeling they used to have is totally gone!

I did pick up some v05 kiwi lime squeeze at the dollar shop. I'm still pretty new at deciphering ingredients, could someone help me out? My husband was rushing me, and I vaugely recall seeing kiwi on the v05 no sulphate list, but I'm not sure about cones/protein and such...

Water (Aqua), Cetyl Alcohol, Cetrimonium Chloride, Stearalkonium Chloride, Stearyl Alcohol, Steareth-21, Glyceryl Stearate, Cymbopogon Schoenanthus Extract, Rosmarinus Officinalis (Rosemary) Leaf Extract, Actindia Chinensis (Kiwi) Fruit Extract, Citrus Aurantifolia (Lime) Peel Extract, Hydrolyzed Collagen, Tocopheryl Acetate, Biotin, Niacinamide, Polysorbate 20, Ascorbic Acid, Pantenol, Propylene Glycol, Benzophenone 4, DMDM Hydantoin, Disodium EDTA, Fragrance (Parfum), Blue 1 (Ci 42090), Yellow 5 (Ci 19140).

Hydrolyzed collagen = protein.

For the most part, the group of anionic surfactants colloquially referred to as "sulfates" are used in shampoo, not conditioner.

[silverthread]

Hey, GRU: I actually tried watering down the Desert Essence Lemon Tea Tree Conditioner by putting some in a squirt bottle with some water and shaking it vigorously. It didn't mix. Not even a little. I let it sit in there for a couple days, thinking it would eventually dissolve in the water, but it didn't. I guess I could try blending it in my Ninja! :D

[afu]

You can always water it down yourself....

This is what i do, I like my CO conditioner to be about the thickness of quite a thin yoghurt - with Tesco smooth coconut that means I can use it 'as is' but with Morrisons jojoba it means adding equal part water and shaking it up. So far all my conditioners have combined pretty well with water.

Also a nice little fact I discovered yesterday, my great grandmother used to CO! Now she was born over a hundred years ago so this won't have been for her earlier days, but I thought this was a big coinsidence seeing as I've never met a non-LHC who COs

[GRU]

Hey, GRU: I actually tried watering down the Desert Essence Lemon Tea Tree Conditioner by putting some in a squirt bottle with some water and shaking it vigorously. It didn't mix. Not even a little. I let it sit in there for a couple days, thinking it would eventually dissolve in the water, but it didn't. I guess I could try blending it in my Ninja! :D

Wow, what the heck is it made of that it's not soluble in water? :confused:

Did you try warm water? Wow, that's just weird....

[silverthread]

Wow, what the heck is it made of that it's not soluble in water? :confused:

Did you try warm water? Wow, that's just weird....

Scary, I know. It works great as a second conditioner, as long as I rinse REALLY REALLY well.

[brave]

I've come to the realization that protein conditioner (Desert Essence green apple) and coconut conditioner (Suave) on my hair both give me finger-in-the-light-socket hair. So far, the Desert Essence Lemon Tea Tree gives me frizz-free results, but it is a heavy conditioner. I'm looking for something more watery, lighter as well. :confused: I'm considering Everyday Shea. It's fairly inexpensive and doesn't have any protein or cones. Has anyone tried it?

I use it sometimes. It's not very watery but I'd say it's heavier than Suave and lighter than AOHR. I end up using maybe not as much as I would if it were Suave, but more than I used to use with heavier coney conditioners. It's pretty well moisturizing though. I don't know if you could dilute it but that might help -- I haven't tried. Not a whole lot of slip to it, is my main issue.

[luxepiggy]

Hey, GRU: I actually tried watering down the Desert Essence Lemon Tea Tree Conditioner by putting some in a squirt bottle with some water and shaking it vigorously. It didn't mix. Not even a little. I let it sit in there for a couple days, thinking it would eventually dissolve in the water, but it didn't. I guess I could try blending it in my Ninja! :D

It's unlikely that you will be able to satisfactorily dilute that particular conditioner with water, because it appears to be a water-in-oil (W/O) emulsion, not an oil-in-water (O/W) emulsion like most conditioners. W/O emulsions can only be diluted with oil. Butter, for example, is a W/O emulsion, whereas milk is an O/W emulsion.

[brave]

It's unlikely that you will be able to satisfactorily dilute that particular conditioner with water, because it appears to be a water-in-oil (W/O) emulsion, not an oil-in-water (O/W) emulsion like most conditioners. W/O emulsions can only be diluted with oil. Butter, for example, is a W/O emulsion, whereas milk is an O/W emulsion.

Is there like, a pocket piggy we can get, to take with us to the stores and help us select conditioner?

How can one tell if it's water-in-oil or oil-in-water?

[Gilly]

I am now on day 4 of COing using Sukin Moisture conditioner and I now have lumps and bumps all over my scalp and the itching has started again, I have been pretty much itch free for a long while and had forgotten how miserable it makes me:(
I am going to have to go back to shampoo and conditioner, I will break out my MooGoo, that will sort it out, I just need to find a way of keeping it moisturised as it does tend to look dry a lot of the time.
Just to clarify before any suggestions are made:
I don't use sulphates
I don't use Cones
I can't air dry
I do blow dry gently on warm from as far away as I can get and never fully dry it!
I wash daily, tried stretching washes, all I get is greasy and itchy and NO dirty hair is NOT an option!
It's too short to put up and I look dreadful in headbands and clips.
I think that pretty much covers it!!:rollin:

[afu]

So after using a coney conditioner of my mothers i'm now on day 3 of looking like I have freshly washed hair - I think this confirms the fact that my frequent washing is usually forced by me over oiling in between not my scalp being oily, as i've not had much time and have only oiled my braid tassle following the initial post-wash oil leave-in. Im dreading having to clarify when I get back from this trip though, oh how I hate you shampoo!

[silverthread]

I am now on day 4 of COing using Sukin Moisture conditioner and I now have lumps and bumps all over my scalp and the itching has started again, I have been pretty much itch free for a long while and had forgotten how miserable it makes me:(
I am going to have to go back to shampoo and conditioner, I will break out my MooGoo, that will sort it out, I just need to find a way of keeping it moisturised as it does tend to look dry a lot of the time.
Just to clarify before any suggestions are made:
I don't use sulphates
I don't use Cones
I can't air dry
I do blow dry gently on warm from as far away as I can get and never fully dry it!
I wash daily, tried stretching washes, all I get is greasy and itchy and NO dirty hair is NOT an option!
It's too short to put up and I look dreadful in headbands and clips.
I think that pretty much covers it!!:rollin:

Hey, Gilly: I had very oily scalp for most of my life (ever since hitting puberty), and the only way to rectify it was to stretch washing. What made it easiest for me was to gradually dilute my bottle of shampoo until I was shampooing with only the weakest solution. Then, I transitioned in to CO. I'm with you on the sulphates and cones, and I'm still searching for the perfect CO regimen. However, my hair only becomes greasy after 4 days or so. I switch between CO, CWC and OWC to avoid build-up and to keep my hair moisturized. Another thing I did was to use a homemade hair rinse as shampoo, made of basically rosemary, horsetail, and nettles.

Until I finally got the oilies under control, I also had to use a blow dryer, which dried out the ends. Now I never blow-dry. I wrap my hair up in a towel after showing to get out the extra moisture. Once I take off the towel, my hair eventually falls in to place as it air dries.

I'm with you on headbands. I've tried and they look awful on me. Maybe you have a heart-shaped face, too? I figured out that I look best if I bring most of my hair over to one side of my head, to make the style assymetrical, using a ficarre, clip, barrette, whatever.

Good luck, Gilly.

[firegypsy]

my hair does not appear to be thrilled with pantene. I feel sad! I loved the way it felt after coing...but the next day I had a really itchy scalp and it got uber greasy. I'm going to CO with vo5 today and see where I get.

[Ookami]

Have tried over the past week new things which ended up in more frequent washes and some dreadful sights.

Today a CO wash, waterexcess carefully squeezed and taped away with hands and towel, combing while wet, since I left it to air dry. Hair has all gone locky/wavy and shortened a few cms/inches but again frizz frizz frizz...:couch:

It looks a lot more silverish too.

Aim is to leave them alone as much as possible to have the next wash the latest.

[afu]

my hair does not appear to be thrilled with pantene. I feel sad! I loved the way it felt after coing...but the next day I had a really itchy scalp and it got uber greasy. I'm going to CO with vo5 today and see where I get.

Maybe you could just use it as a finishing conditioner on your lengths and keep it away from your scalp?

My hair still feels a little dry after my clarify (1 CO wash since) so I'm going to do a long SMT today (minus the honey which turns my ends like a wire brush, might substitute in a little almond oil)

[firegypsy]

I think I'm going to slather my hair with coconut oil for an hour or so, and see what happens when I rinse it out.

[afu]

Hope it goes well firegypsy :) i'm going to put my pyjamas back on (its 1.30pm here!), mix up a nice big SMT and slather my hair in it, then im going to watch Neighbours while I have lunch and lock myself up to do work for a few hours before rinsing out

[firegypsy]

thanks! so far so good....it stopped the itchies.

[mduggan]

I am now on day 4 of COing using Sukin Moisture conditioner and I now have lumps and bumps all over my scalp and the itching has started again, I have been pretty much itch free for a long while and had forgotten how miserable it makes me:(
I am going to have to go back to shampoo and conditioner, I will break out my MooGoo, that will sort it out, I just need to find a way of keeping it moisturised as it does tend to look dry a lot of the time.
Just to clarify before any suggestions are made:
I don't use sulphates
I don't use Cones
I can't air dry
I do blow dry gently on warm from as far away as I can get and never fully dry it!
I wash daily, tried stretching washes, all I get is greasy and itchy and NO dirty hair is NOT an option!
It's too short to put up and I look dreadful in headbands and clips.
I think that pretty much covers it!!:rollin:

Oh dear. I am SO sorry this isn't working for you. Perhaps if you could identify the allergens...not sure how to do that, though....

(((hugs)))

[luxepiggy]

my hair does not appear to be thrilled with pantene. I feel sad! I loved the way it felt after coing...but the next day I had a really itchy scalp and it got uber greasy. I'm going to CO with vo5 today and see where I get.

If you're talking about Pantene Ice Shine, I do not recommend that one for cleansing the scalp; however, it is excellent when used to condition the length & ends after cleansing (^(oo)^)v

[luxepiggy]

So after reading so many raves about diluting conditioners, I decided to try it last time I washed. Alas, success was not forthcoming. My hair has re-oiled itself in half the usual time, thus completely negating any reduction in per-wash conditioner utilization (>(oo)<)`

[firegypsy]

If you're talking about Pantene Ice Shine, I do not recommend that one for cleansing the scalp; however, it is excellent when used to condition the length & ends after cleansing (^(oo)^)v


ahhhhh, good to know! thank you!

[cmg]

How can one tell if it's water-in-oil or oil-in-water?
There is no way, really. Its the same thing with facial makeup cremes. No way to tell whats what from just looking at it. They come in different thickness or look and feel etc. They are composed differently with thickening or mattifying ingredients and so on. But more often the W/O-emulsions are used as cremes for dryer skin types or in night cremes fex., and the colouring makeup cremes are mostly O/W type.

Which brings me to the subject emulsifiers. The O/W emulsions have the emulsifying molekules inside the droplet, the W/O emulsions have the emulsifying agents on the outside of the (oil-)droplet.

So if you have problems with separating or curdling condishes when diluting, try adding an emulsifying agent like eggyoke if your hair likes it. There are others available in special shops for soapmaking ingredients and such things.

/ CMG

[cmg]

.... and avoid soy protein and such ingredients if you want to dilute the condish. When these things are in the wrong proportions, the condish will curdle also. Soy protein is one of the natural vegetable matters used as rennet when making chese. The general idea is to coagulate the protein in the milk! The ph-level in a condish is usually low anyhow, so this will furter enhance the curdling.

/ CMG

[luxepiggy]

Is there like, a pocket piggy we can get, to take with us to the stores and help us select conditioner?
LOL! Maybe my next project should be an pocket piggy mobile app (^(oo)^)`


How can one tell if it's water-in-oil or oil-in-water?

The basic test is to see whether it mixes freely with water ;) It's not impossible to add water to a W/O emulsion, but it's very tedious (drop by drop, with constant stirring) and more likely to cause phase separation

[louzen]

Hello everyone :)

I'm new to CO washing but my hair and scalp (especially my scalp since it's dry) LOVE it! :happydance:

I'm just a bit worried that CO washing doesn't clean the scalp from dirt/oils properly (maybe that's years of brainwashing from shampoo commercials!).

I'm also experiencing that my hair gets greasy more quickly (gets greasy the next day). I scrub the scalp with the conditioner like shampoo and rinse thoroughly. I guess this could be the transition phase? Will I ever be able to stretch my washes to more than every 2 days?

[silverthread]

Hello everyone :)

I'm new to CO washing but my hair and scalp (especially my scalp since it's dry) LOVE it! :happydance:

I'm just a bit worried that CO washing doesn't clean the scalp from dirt/oils properly (maybe that's years of brainwashing from shampoo commercials!).

I'm also experiencing that my hair gets greasy more quickly (gets greasy the next day). I scrub the scalp with the conditioner like shampoo and rinse thoroughly. I guess this could be the transition phase? Will I ever be able to stretch my washes to more than every 2 days?

Hey, Louzen:

Yes, you will. The transition phase could take several weeks. You'll have to be a little creative with hairstyles, to hide the greasiness and stretch out your washes an extra day. It took me about a month of gradually reducing the amount of shampoo I was using, so that I only needed to wash every fourth day. Then I went into CO. Now that I'm at 4-days pretty consistently, I alternate between CO, CWC and OWC. Good luck!

[luxepiggy]

Will I ever be able to stretch my washes to more than every 2 days?

Everyone's hair is different, but I don't think that would be unreasonable at all. I used to need to wash daily when I was on S&C, and now I normally go 3-4 days in between CO washes.

[caadam]

I've actually started up my CO routine after doing four months of WO! WOOOOOH! I'm glad to be back. ^ ^

I was CO for almost a year (with some months before of experimenting with what method worked best) before I went WO. So yeah.

It's about a week into COing with my favorite conditioner of all time, Suave Rosemary & Mint. Yeah... I really like it. lol I'm sorry. :o But it also tends to leave my hair pretty squeaky clean, and my scalp will get dry. I'm thinking about mixing it with a bit of EVOO or jojoba oil (maybe a tiny bit of both) and see how that works out. I'm hoping it'll give some nice results. :D I'll see what happens.

ETA: Also, I'm kind of grateful for those four months of WO; it seems to have allowed me to stretch washes more often than I was able to when I was doing CO for the first time. I'm able to go 3-4 days without any itching, major oil attacks, or any real flaking. It's kind of nice. WO for the win, right? ♥

[kaydana]

I've been CO washing for about three weeks, and my hair loves it. However, I've noticed my ends prefer my Herbal Essences conditioner, which contains bis-aminopropyl dimethicone, is this a water soluble or non-water soluble cone? Should I expect to need to clarify at some point if I use it?

[caadam]

I just did some quick reading and found out that bis-aminopropyl dimethicone isn't water soluble.

http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlreading/curly-q-a/curlchemist-amodimethicone-and-other-amine-functionalized-silicones

[louzen]

Thanks silverthread and luxepiggy. I'm going to stick with CO washing and just accept that I need to wash more frequently at the moment but it should get better in time :) I'm going to report back and let you know if it gets less greasy in 2/3 weeks time :)

[mduggan]

Hello everyone :)

I'm new to CO washing but my hair and scalp (especially my scalp since it's dry) LOVE it! :happydance:

I'm just a bit worried that CO washing doesn't clean the scalp from dirt/oils properly (maybe that's years of brainwashing from shampoo commercials!).

I'm also experiencing that my hair gets greasy more quickly (gets greasy the next day). I scrub the scalp with the conditioner like shampoo and rinse thoroughly. I guess this could be the transition phase? Will I ever be able to stretch my washes to more than every 2 days?

Welcome! Isn't soft hair WONDERFUL? :happydance:

I have found that after massaging the conditioner into the scalp that I need to leave it in longer to let it do it's job....so far I have left it in anywhere from 2 minutes to 30 minutes with no problems. Five minutes seems to work well to remove the dirt. Then, of course, copious amount of rinsing.

I am currently experiments with different weights of conditioners to better understand the "slippery" term ;-)

[Ookami]

Will I ever be able to stretch my washes to more than every 2 days?
Oh yes, you'll get there I used to daily shampoo because my scalp and hair went so greasy in no time. but it was just because my very dry hair and scalp were so in distress with all the shampoo, washes etc...
CO washes since a few months, I managed to space washes to once or twice a week!

[afu]

It's about a week into COing with my favorite conditioner of all time, Suave Rosemary & Mint. Yeah... I really like it. lol I'm sorry. :o But it also tends to leave my hair pretty squeaky clean, and my scalp will get dry. I'm thinking about mixing it with a bit of EVOO or jojoba oil (maybe a tiny bit of both) and see how that works out. I'm hoping it'll give some nice results. :D I'll see what happens.


Recently ive been combining some conditioner with sweet almond oil and sweet orange EO, heating slightly and applying to dry hair, then rinsing in the shower (as soon as i get in i stick my head under the water and lather then rinse off when im done with other shower activities). I started it because my scalp was getting a bit itchy (strange, been COing for a few months now with no problems) and it seems to have sorted the problem without compromising cleanliness so your idea is def worth a try. If I have time I leave the conditioner/oil mixture on as long as possible for extra conditioning but it also works if i apply just 5mins before showering

[caadam]

Recently ive been combining some conditioner with sweet almond oil and sweet orange EO, heating slightly and applying to dry hair, then rinsing in the shower (as soon as i get in i stick my head under the water and lather then rinse off when im done with other shower activities). I started it because my scalp was getting a bit itchy (strange, been COing for a few months now with no problems) and it seems to have sorted the problem without compromising cleanliness so your idea is def worth a try. If I have time I leave the conditioner/oil mixture on as long as possible for extra conditioning but it also works if i apply just 5mins before showering

See, I would try almond oil (and I know you weren't suggesting it, but this is just a passing thought lol), but the last time I did, my hair turned into hay. lol Well, the ends did. Boo.

And I've done a couple of conditioning treatments with my conditioner where I left it on for a long time with oil, and that has worked very well. :)

[luxepiggy]

I've been CO washing for about three weeks, and my hair loves it. However, I've noticed my ends prefer my Herbal Essences conditioner, which contains bis-aminopropyl dimethicone, is this a water soluble or non-water soluble cone? Should I expect to need to clarify at some point if I use it?

You will not need to clarify. Bis-aminopropyl dimethicone is an aminosilicone. Due to their positively charged chemical structure, aminosilicones are very resistant to build-up even though they not water-soluble (^(oo)^)v

[mduggan]

You will not need to clarify. Bis-aminopropyl dimethicone is an aminosilicone. Due to their positively charged chemical structure, aminosilicones are very resistant to build-up even though they not water-soluble (^(oo)^)v

how do you know all of this??? you are a veritable fountain of knowledge. It is so great to have access to your brain :happydance:

let us know when the luxepiggy app is ready :-)

[kaydana]

You will not need to clarify. Bis-aminopropyl dimethicone is an aminosilicone. Due to their positively charged chemical structure, aminosilicones are very resistant to build-up even though they not water-soluble (^(oo)^)v

Yay! Thank you!

There was silly old me thinking whether or not it caused build-up just came down to whether or not it was water soluble... guess I've got a lot to learn.

[cmg]

But it also tends to leave my hair pretty squeaky clean, and my scalp will get dry. I'm thinking about mixing it with a bit of EVOO or jojoba oil (maybe a tiny bit of both) and see how that works out. I'm hoping it'll give some nice results. I'll see what happens.


Recently ive been combining some conditioner with sweet almond oil and sweet orange EO, heating slightly and applying to dry hair, then rinsing in the shower

I was just going to suggest something like that. I think if you already want to mix the oils with the shampoo or condish, you might be better off with a less heavy oil or wax (jojoba is a wax). And this way you can use it every time you wash. I would suggest sweet almond oil, apricot kernel oil, broccoli seed oil (said to enhance curls) or perhaps cocoa nut oil. EVOO, jojoba and castor oil can be somewhat heavy.

/CMG

[luxepiggy]

nothing to see here (^(oo)^)v

[mduggan]

I was just going to suggest something like that. I think if you already want to mix the oils with the shampoo or condish, you might be better off with a less heavy oil or wax (jojoba is a wax). And this way you can use it every time you wash. I would suggest sweet almond oil, apricot kernel oil, broccoli seed oil (said to enhance curls) or perhaps cocoa nut oil. EVOO, jojoba and castor oil can be somewhat heavy.

/CMG

hmmmmm.. is there a benefit to using jojoba oil if it is a wax? :confused: I am thinking about removing it from "stash."

[luxepiggy]

how do you know all of this??? you are a veritable fountain of knowledge. It is so great to have access to your brain :happydance:

let us know when the luxepiggy app is ready :-)

LOL! I learned most of it from ponderous books with equally ponderous titles like Principles of Polymer Science and Technology in Cosmetics and Personal Care :p Also the Journal of Cosmetic Science, which publishes a lot of hair care research (^(oo)^)v


Yay! Thank you!

There was silly old me thinking whether or not it caused build-up just came down to whether or not it was water soluble... guess I've got a lot to learn.

Nothing wrong with that! I knew absolutely nothing about hair care when I joined LHC. The learning is half the fun!

[afu]

hmmmmm.. is there a benefit to using jojoba oil if it is a wax? :confused: I am thinking about removing it from "stash." jojoba is supposed to be closest to your scalps natural 'oil' despite being a liquid wax, some people swear by it, but for fine hair it can be way too heavy

[mduggan]

jojoba is supposed to be closest to your scalps natural 'oil' despite being a liquid wax, some people swear by it, but for fine hair it can be way too heavy

I do have fine hair. Perhaps I should stick with avocado or apricot oil?

[caadam]

I was just going to suggest something like that. I think if you already want to mix the oils with the shampoo or condish, you might be better off with a less heavy oil or wax (jojoba is a wax). And this way you can use it every time you wash. I would suggest sweet almond oil, apricot kernel oil, broccoli seed oil (said to enhance curls) or perhaps cocoa nut oil. EVOO, jojoba and castor oil can be somewhat heavy.

/CMG

Almond oil doesn't agree with my hair, I know that... haven't tried apricot kernel oil or broccoli seed oil; and cocoa nut oil? Do you mean coconut oil? If you do, I know for certain that it will disagree with my hair. lol My hair turns to hay when I use that stuff. Sadly. :(

EVOO actually works well with my hair. My hair soaks it up, and I've not experienced any excessive oiliness from it (except for once when I was just starting out on oils around two years ago and trying to see which ones worked for me). Jojoba oil also gets soaked up by my hair pretty quickly. :D But castor oil is definitely very heavy. I've used it once on my hair, and it didn't do anything for me.

[Dovetail]

I've read about several girls with finer hair really liking mineral oil *baby oil!* I've been thinking about giving it a try myself. I've noticed too you only use maybe 3-4 drops of the stuff. Not a a lot at all. When I oiled my first time, it was before I ever even thought about long hair, and I used WAY to much olive oil, and my ends got super crunchy. uck.

[firegypsy]

I have superfine hair and I just bought some mineral oil to try on it. Maybe I'll do that today and report back.

I'm getting frustrated with CO. I am not finding my groove at all. I've only tried a few different co's and the only one that gave me a decent result (before and after clarifying) was the John Frieda....which is too expensive for COing.

It has cones, so I guess I'm one who's hair likes that? I don't know. I've only tried one that was cone free and my hair felt very dry afterwards. Not silky at all, even with oil.

I bought tresseme and haven't used it yet. It's making me nervous because people are reporting hair loss elsewhere on the board?

My hair seems pretty balanced. I don't think I need more protein. My problem is it's so fine that it just get's totally weighed down, which actually doesn't bother me but it looks greasy in the back even right after I wash it.

Now I've ended up with greasy hair and a dry and itchy scalp. :rolleyes:

I don't want to give up yet, but I'm thinking that perhaps COing isn't for me. :(

[fridgee]

I have superfine hair and I just bought some mineral oil to try on it. Maybe I'll do that today and report back.

I'm getting frustrated with CO. I am not finding my groove at all. I've only tried a few different co's and the only one that gave me a decent result (before and after clarifying) was the John Frieda....which is too expensive for COing.

It has cones, so I guess I'm one who's hair likes that? I don't know. I've only tried one that was cone free and my hair felt very dry afterwards. Not silky at all, even with oil.

I bought tresseme and haven't used it yet. It's making me nervous because people are reporting hair loss elsewhere on the board?

My hair seems pretty balanced. I don't think I need more protein. My problem is it's so fine that it just get's totally weighed down, which actually doesn't bother me but it looks greasy in the back even right after I wash it.

Now I've ended up with greasy hair and a dry and itchy scalp. :rolleyes:

I don't want to give up yet, but I'm thinking that perhaps COing isn't for me. :(

If your hair likes the expensive coney conditioner you can always wash with a cheap cone free conditioner then rinse and use the coney conditioner like you would after shampooing, which is what I do. I use diluted tresemme Naturals to wash, then use nutrigloss just on the length (doesn't touch my scalp) to get some extra slip.

Have you tried an acid rinse after your co wash to help with the itchy scalp? It really helped me when I started COing.

[caadam]

I have superfine hair and I just bought some mineral oil to try on it. Maybe I'll do that today and report back.

I'm getting frustrated with CO. I am not finding my groove at all. I've only tried a few different co's and the only one that gave me a decent result (before and after clarifying) was the John Frieda....which is too expensive for COing.

It has cones, so I guess I'm one who's hair likes that? I don't know. I've only tried one that was cone free and my hair felt very dry afterwards. Not silky at all, even with oil.

I bought tresseme and haven't used it yet. It's making me nervous because people are reporting hair loss elsewhere on the board?

My hair seems pretty balanced. I don't think I need more protein. My problem is it's so fine that it just get's totally weighed down, which actually doesn't bother me but it looks greasy in the back even right after I wash it.

Now I've ended up with greasy hair and a dry and itchy scalp. :rolleyes:

I don't want to give up yet, but I'm thinking that perhaps COing isn't for me. :(

Sometimes hair loss is due to a sensitive scalp or allergy (hormones, stress, etc). I don't know where other people are saying Tresemme causes hair loss, though. I've never had a problem with it other than its scent.

If your hair likes cones, have you tried White Rain? That brand has dimethicone.

And if CO works or doesn't work for you, I hope you find out what your hair likes best. :flower:

[caadam]

Yeah... I did a google search for anything on Tresemme causing hair loss (site:longhaircommunity.com tresemme hair loss) and found nothing. So I dunno. lol I honestly think you have nothing to worry about. ♥

[firegypsy]

I didn't do an acid rinse. I could try that. I was staying away from it because I've not had success with ACV rinses in the past. BUT I wasn't COing then either.

White Rain, eh? Worth a try!

So far the J. Frieda CO is the only one that doesn't give me an itchy scalp. The Pantene was the worst, but vo5 wasn't so hot either.

I hope I find what works too! Thank you! So far I'm just noticing significantly increased shedding. And I didn't have a lot to start with!

[caadam]

I didn't do an acid rinse. I could try that. I was staying away from it because I've not had success with ACV rinses in the past. BUT I wasn't COing then either.

White Rain, eh? Worth a try!

So far the J. Frieda CO is the only one that doesn't give me an itchy scalp. The Pantene was the worst, but vo5 wasn't so hot either.

I hope I find what works too! Thank you! So far I'm just noticing significantly increased shedding. And I didn't have a lot to start with!

I notice that some people experience extra shedding from COing overall. Maybe it has a lot to do with the fact of using product, and also lots of scrubbing, stimulating the scalp, and such.

I use a BBB in between washes, which tends to catch a lot of loose hairs. When I wash my hair after 3-4 days, I shed maybe... 10-12 hairs in the shower, and that's it. So I think for people who might not handle their hair a lot in between washes might not realize they're not brushing or combing out loose hairs, so when they CO, suddenly it all comes out, giving the illusion that they're shedding monstrous amounts of hair. However, in reality it's probably just 3 days' worth of shedding they hadn't combed/brushed out! :D

I realize this isn't always the case, but I've noticed that happens with some people. Just something to keep in mind, I think.

ETA: Also, if you don't know this, White Rain is super cheap. I know some people are even able to find it at the dollar store, but it's good stuff. I used the citrus scent, and I really liked it. I just like my Suave condish better. lol

[firegypsy]

Yeah... I did a google search for anything on Tresemme causing hair loss (site:longhaircommunity.com tresemme hair loss) and found nothing. So I dunno. lol I honestly think you have nothing to worry about. ♥


that's so odd! I definitely read it on here. I'll have to see if I can find it. There was a whole discussion about it, and I want to say you posted about it likely being a specific allergy and not to worry about it. lol!

My shedding has definitely increased overall. I use a trap in the shower and the shed is insane. easily over a hundred hairs, and I shed when I brush too. I haven't even stretched COing more than every other day at this point (my hair is so gross and my scalp is so itchy!) so I don't think it's simply a matter of the number of days in my case. Even when I stretched to every other day with poo & condish I didn't shed like this.

I'm not really freaking out, but unless this is a normal transition, something isn't right. The JF I've been using for years so I don't think it's that....unless letting it sit on my scalp for so long is the problem.

[caadam]

that's so odd! I definitely read it on here. I'll have to see if I can find it. There was a whole discussion about it, and I want to say you posted about it likely being a specific allergy and not to worry about it. lol!

My shedding has definitely increased overall. I use a trap in the shower and the shed is insane. easily over a hundred hairs, and I shed when I brush too. I haven't even stretched COing more than every other day at this point (my hair is so gross and my scalp is so itchy!) so I don't think it's simply a matter of the number of days in my case. Even when I stretched to every other day with poo & condish I didn't shed like this.

I'm not really freaking out, but unless this is a normal transition, something isn't right. The JF I've been using for years so I don't think it's that....unless letting it sit on my scalp for so long is the problem.

OOOOOOOOOOH... THAT thread. lol

No, that was about Garnier Fructis, not Tresemme. Ugh... yeah, let's keep that discussion at that, haha. What a clusterbomb.

And hmm... well, it's totally up to you if you want to wait it out and see if it is a transition. If not, then you could be one of those people that just sheds a lot when COing. It happens. Sadly. I just hope you can get it all worked out.

ALSO... about the itchy scalp: I get very bad dandruff if I don't treat my scalp, and what has helped FOR ME is EVOO. It's my miracle oil. lol I actually just washed my hair earlier tonight; what I did was get about a tsp of olive and jojoba oil all mixed up and then mixed that tsp of oil with a big dollop of my condish in a small bowl. I slathered it on my head and massaged my scalp with it.

My hair isn't oily, feels super soft, and my scalp feels itch-free. You can also perhaps massage oil on your scalp before washing.

Just a suggestion if you haven't tried it.

[silverthread]

I diluted the Desert Essence Lemon Tea Tree last night, 10 to 1, and used it as the second conditioning after an hour of deep conditioning with AOHR. I let it air dry. My hair is super soft and shiny, but doesn't feel as thick as it usually does. Overall, the results are good.

[silverthread]

It's unlikely that you will be able to satisfactorily dilute that particular conditioner with water, because it appears to be a water-in-oil (W/O) emulsion, not an oil-in-water (O/W) emulsion like most conditioners. W/O emulsions can only be diluted with oil. Butter, for example, is a W/O emulsion, whereas milk is an O/W emulsion.

You're right, luxiepiggy. I diluted it ten to 1 last night, but had to mix it in my Ninja blender. After just a few minutes, the water began to separate from the conditioner again. Fortunately, it stayed blended long enough for me to use it as my second conditioner in a CO.

[louzen]

So I CO washed last night and left it on to work its magic after a heavy oiling. Woohoo, it got the oil out of my hair I can't believe it. It's better than shampoo at this! It's gives my hair sooo much volume too and my scalp is oh so soft. (Coming from a person with a dry scalp problem this is something!) :happydance:

I was wondering if you guys scrub it in like shampoo first, then leave it on your hair for x amount of minutes and then rinse it off, or do you do the scrubbing after you have left it sit on your hair for a while?

I'm also using quite a heavy conditioner (since it's the only unscented conditioner I can find at the moment). Is it better to use a thin, runny conditioner for this?

[louzen]

I didn't do an acid rinse. I could try that. I was staying away from it because I've not had success with ACV rinses in the past. BUT I wasn't COing then either.

White Rain, eh? Worth a try!

So far the J. Frieda CO is the only one that doesn't give me an itchy scalp. The Pantene was the worst, but vo5 wasn't so hot either.

I hope I find what works too! Thank you! So far I'm just noticing significantly increased shedding. And I didn't have a lot to start with!

This is just a theory of mine and by no means correct - but maybe when the hair has been shampooed the shed hairs fall out from the body of hair much easier (since the hair is a bit dryer?). When you condition only, the hair is much sleeker, smooth and the hairs stick together more, so the hairs only come out when you brush, thus you're brushing out the hairs that would had otherwise shed naturally to the floor. Anyway, just a thought :)

[afu]

I've read about several girls with finer hair really liking mineral oil *baby oil!* I've been thinking about giving it a try myself. I've noticed too you only use maybe 3-4 drops of the stuff. Not a a lot at all. When I oiled my first time, it was before I ever even thought about long hair, and I used WAY to much olive oil, and my ends got super crunchy. uck.


I've heard this too from finer haired LHCers, but for me sweet almond works so well i'm going to stick to that for now. I like to stick to penetrating oils (mineral oil just acts as a coating) and im also not sure on how easy it is to wash out with CO or if is causes build up. For me personally one of the main reasons I stay away from mineral oil is because it is a petroleum product, if a natural oil can give me good results I'd rather stick to the more envionmentally friendly option. Almond oil and coconut oil (the two oils i use regularly) are also multipurpose, i also use them on skin and SOA as a scalp massage - mineral oil is a big no-no for the scalp

[mduggan]

I think I'll begin the search for sweet almond oil.... :-)

[fridgee]

So I CO washed last night and left it on to work its magic after a heavy oiling. Woohoo, it got the oil out of my hair I can't believe it. It's better than shampoo at this! It's gives my hair sooo much volume too and my scalp is oh so soft. (Coming from a person with a dry scalp problem this is something!) :happydance:

I was wondering if you guys scrub it in like shampoo first, then leave it on your hair for x amount of minutes and then rinse it off, or do you do the scrubbing after you have left it sit on your hair for a while?

I'm also using quite a heavy conditioner (since it's the only unscented conditioner I can find at the moment). Is it better to use a thin, runny conditioner for this?

I massage (rather than scrub) it in first, leave it on while I shower, add some water on top of my head and massage again, at which point it lathers a little, then rinse. So kinda both!

I find a thin conditioner spreads and distributes more easily. If you have a conditioner you like but is too thick you can always dilute it. I do this to my tresemme Naturals and it spreads more easily, lasts longer (so is cheaper) and actually cleans better too.

[firegypsy]

OOOOOOOOOOH... THAT thread. lol

No, that was about Garnier Fructis, not Tresemme. Ugh... yeah, let's keep that discussion at that, haha. What a clusterbomb.

And hmm... well, it's totally up to you if you want to wait it out and see if it is a transition. If not, then you could be one of those people that just sheds a lot when COing. It happens. Sadly. I just hope you can get it all worked out.

ALSO... about the itchy scalp: I get very bad dandruff if I don't treat my scalp, and what has helped FOR ME is EVOO. It's my miracle oil. lol I actually just washed my hair earlier tonight; what I did was get about a tsp of olive and jojoba oil all mixed up and then mixed that tsp of oil with a big dollop of my condish in a small bowl. I slathered it on my head and massaged my scalp with it.

My hair isn't oily, feels super soft, and my scalp feels itch-free. You can also perhaps massage oil on your scalp before washing.

Just a suggestion if you haven't tried it.


worth a shot! so just add it to the conditioner. I can try that. It's weird my scalp was fine for a week or so when I first started and then it freaked out.

I S&C today and feel better already, but I'm definitely interested in making this work.

And I'm confused-maybe I'm melding threads. I have no frame of reference for garnier fructis, so I'd not have really even paid attention to that. It was definitely tresemme because I looked in dismay at the huge bottle I'd just purchased. lol.

[caadam]

worth a shot! so just add it to the conditioner. I can try that. It's weird my scalp was fine for a week or so when I first started and then it freaked out.

I S&C today and feel better already, but I'm definitely interested in making this work.

And I'm confused-maybe I'm melding threads. I have no frame of reference for garnier fructis, so I'd not have really even paid attention to that. It was definitely tresemme because I looked in dismay at the huge bottle I'd just purchased. lol.

Well, if it was about Tresemme, then I don't know anything about it. If I did get into a discussion about it, it must've been a looooong time ago. lol

But there was a thread that FINALLY died down where this girl came into the forum with scare tactics about Garinier Fructis, telling everyone it almost made her bald. It just got really out of hand; lots of ruckus, but she finally left in a huff.

Way too much drama llamas. :rolleyes:

[firegypsy]

Oh I did read that. Yup. It was dramatic. Enough people had different experiences to share though....that was a bonus!

[louzen]

I massage (rather than scrub) it in first, leave it on while I shower, add some water on top of my head and massage again, at which point it lathers a little, then rinse. So kinda both!

I find a thin conditioner spreads and distributes more easily. If you have a conditioner you like but is too thick you can always dilute it. I do this to my tresemme Naturals and it spreads more easily, lasts longer (so is cheaper) and actually cleans better too.

Thanks fridgee. I actually never thought about diluting it. I'm going to dilute tonight and see how it goes since my conditioner is also quite expensive!

[Neecola]

I've heard this too from finer haired LHCers, but for me sweet almond works so well i'm going to stick to that for now. I like to stick to penetrating oils (mineral oil just acts as a coating) and im also not sure on how easy it is to wash out with CO or if is causes build up. For me personally one of the main reasons I stay away from mineral oil is because it is a petroleum product, if a natural oil can give me good results I'd rather stick to the more envionmentally friendly option. Almond oil and coconut oil (the two oils i use regularly) are also multipurpose, i also use them on skin and SOA as a scalp massage - mineral oil is a big no-no for the scalp

I've just discovered sweet almond oil and it really is amazing! I've never used mineral oil because I'm in the same boat as you, afu. I really don't want to use any more petroleum products than I already do.

Also, sweet almond oil is pretty amazing for the oil cleansing method (on face). :love:

[mduggan]

tried a quick CO today as an experiment. I used avocado oil last night on my ends, then bunned my hair for sleeping. I used VO5 Tea Therapy with Chamomile and just slathered it on with a very fast scalp massage. Left the Conditioner in for just a minute. Followed up with Tresemme naturals moisture conditioner, rinsing that out after two minutes. I'm letting my hair air dry as normal, but when still wet I scrunched a bit of avocado oil in the ends - just a drop.

So far my hair is soft and silky, and the ends feel great....and my shower didn't take a long time...

[Dragon Faery]

So I CO washed last night and left it on to work its magic after a heavy oiling. Woohoo, it got the oil out of my hair I can't believe it. It's better than shampoo at this! It's gives my hair sooo much volume too and my scalp is oh so soft. (Coming from a person with a dry scalp problem this is something!) :happydance:

I was wondering if you guys scrub it in like shampoo first, then leave it on your hair for x amount of minutes and then rinse it off, or do you do the scrubbing after you have left it sit on your hair for a while?

I'm also using quite a heavy conditioner (since it's the only unscented conditioner I can find at the moment). Is it better to use a thin, runny conditioner for this?


I massage (rather than scrub) it in first, leave it on while I shower, add some water on top of my head and massage again, at which point it lathers a little, then rinse. So kinda both!

I find a thin conditioner spreads and distributes more easily. If you have a conditioner you like but is too thick you can always dilute it. I do this to my tresemme Naturals and it spreads more easily, lasts longer (so is cheaper) and actually cleans better too.

I also massage twice-ish. It takes the conditioner a bit to find my scalp under my hair, so I do a light sort of massage to get it in there (as much as I can without breaking my hair), let it penetrate a while, add more conditioner (since the first application usually seems to disappear a bit), and massage. All you need to do is whatever works for you to get it applied everywhere you need cleaning. :) No more, no less.

The same goes for what conditioner you use and how you use it. The goal is to find what works for your hair. If it works, Awesome! You've found a new routine! If it doesn't, then ask questions and/or experiment until you stumble upon what works for you.

Have fun! :)

[MestizoGypsy]

I'm a newbie on the forum and have some questions about CO washing! Does it work on fine/medium straight hair? I'm prone to oiliness at my roots, but I try to wash it only every other day, but maybe CO washing would be better? What are cones? Also, I'm a kids swim coach, so my hair is constantly full of chlorine, which I know needs to be washed out with shampoo... right?

[Dovetail]

My roots used to get very oily if I ever put conditioner on them, the main thing I do is put some on my dry hair roots and let it sit then I get it kinda wet and massage it in, then I add conditioner everywhere else and rinse. I noticed my roots get greesy if I don't rinse enough. Rinse rinse rinse!

Also, my sisterinlaw has pretty thick hair, but she's on swim team here, she'll put conditioner in her hair and braid it and let it stay in there till she showers, she says it really helps keep her hair soft.

I'm sure the others have better advice though, I'm pretty new still :whistle:

[cmg]

hmmmmm.. is there a benefit to using jojoba oil if it is a wax? I am thinking about removing it from "stash."
Lots of people use it. Everyones hair is different. I use it in the Kimberlillys defrizz spray for example.


I have superfine hair and I just bought some mineral oil to try on it. Maybe I'll do that today and report back.

I'm getting frustrated with CO. I am not finding my groove at all. I've only tried a few different co's and the only one that gave me a decent result (before and after clarifying) was the John Frieda....which is too expensive for COing.

It has cones, so I guess I'm one who's hair likes that? I don't know. I've only tried one that was cone free and my hair felt very dry afterwards. Not silky at all, even with oil.
My two cents worth: I think your stuck with the harsh cleaning versus cones-routine. Your hair underneath has taken damage from it and needs it even more ... its an evil circle. This is a real problem for fine haired people, because the affected surface area is so much bigger relatively speaking, and more hairs per volume. I am so happy I am out of it! It takes some time and patience though.

When I was still using shampoos etc I had to shampoo my hair twice or even trice to get it clean and the scalp oil free. The ends obviously didnt like that, but there was no alternative for me or I looked really bad at the roots after just a few hours. No such problems since CO-ing.

Itches? Try listing the first 5-6 ingredients of your products. If something pops up in the products that causes itching it might be one of the major ingredients. It could also be preservatives or other ingredients from the end of the list that your scalp is reacting to.

Common known causes for irritations and contact dermatitis in shampoos and conditioners:

Bensoat (preservative)
Formalin/Formaldehydes (preservative)
Hexachlorophene
Kathon (a preservative; goes under some 30 different names like Ammerstat, Parmetol etc.)
Miranols
Parabens
Tiomersal (but very uncommon in shampoos and condishes, more common in eye makeup)

Do you have gluten intolerance or other allergy problems? Then wheat proteins, lactic acid, soy and other stuffs like that might not agree with your scalp either.

And then there could be lots of other reasons for the itch and the shedding. The itch could be your sebum glands adjusting or its too much rubbing or too long exposure time of the condish and so on. They need some rest from this. You could also be in a shedding period, many experience this during summertime. In my case, I can really get a scare sometimes. But then I realize I am removing the loose hairs during the washing process now, rather than keeping it in the tub or loosing it during the day. My vacuum cleaner has much less loose hairs now! Shedding also happens some time after severe stress.

On the other hand, try find a conditioner where the Quats are higher up in the ingredients list if you think you need more caring ingredients for your fine hair.

If your hair likes mineral oil you should go for it. Many fine haired people seem to like it. I can use it too, but it is not my preferred oil. I took the plunge almost two years ago and did a 6 inch cut at the start of CO-ing. The ends were a bit of a problem for a very long time, but they are slowly getting better too. I have never looked back and my hair has never felt better.


Also, sweet almond oil is pretty amazing for the oil cleansing method (on face).
Yes it is, and I use it as an eye makeup remover sometimes. I whish I could use carrot oil this way, but I am allergic to it. Wheatgerm oil is OK though. Coconut oil gives me pimples unfortunately, when applied to the skin.

/ CMG

[louzen]

Hi again :)

I'm using an unscented conditioner for sensitive skin for CO at the moment and would like your advice on the ingredients. They are:

AQUA (SPRING WATER), CETEARYL ALCOHOL, OLEA EUROPAEA (OLIVE) FRUIT OIL*, LEVULINIC ACID, CETRIMONIUM CHLORIDE, HELIANTHUS ANNUUS (SUNFLOWER) SEED OIL*, TRITICUM VULGARE (WHEAT) GERM OIL, ALOE BARBADENSIS (ALOE VERA) LEAF JUICE POWDER*, CAMELLIA SINENSIS (GREEN TEA) LEAF EXTRACT*, FAEX (YEAST) EXTRACT, POTASSIUM SORBATE

It seems to be doing quite a good job and gives me lovely volume (albeit for a day and a bit at the moment!)

Is this a good conditioner to be CO washing with in your opinion?

[Amanah]

I'm a newbie on the forum and have some questions about CO washing! Does it work on fine/medium straight hair? I'm prone to oiliness at my roots, but I try to wash it only every other day, but maybe CO washing would be better? What are cones? Also, I'm a kids swim coach, so my hair is constantly full of chlorine, which I know needs to be washed out with shampoo... right?

CO washing works great on fine hair, if your hair is oily, Suave Coconut might work well for you.

Cones, are the different Silicones that are in some shampoos and conditioners, i.e. Dimethicone

Also, read the linked article, it states you can rinse your hair with club soda to remove chlorine

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=115

[louzen]

I'm a newbie on the forum and have some questions about CO washing! Does it work on fine/medium straight hair? I'm prone to oiliness at my roots, but I try to wash it only every other day, but maybe CO washing would be better? What are cones? Also, I'm a kids swim coach, so my hair is constantly full of chlorine, which I know needs to be washed out with shampoo... right?

Welcome to the LHC MestizoGypsy :) I'm pretty new myself to CO washing but have had very good results so far (better than shampoo even), so am planning to stick with it. The only downside is you have to wash more frequently in the beginning since your scalp goes through a transition phase and becomes more greasy than normal.

Cones are silicones that manufacturers add to conditioners in order to make the hair shiny and smooth. Their names generally end in -cone like Dimethicone, Cyclomethicone for instance. However, silicones are seen as bad since they give the illusion that the quality of the hair has improved and can cause build up over time. Some people love cones, but others stay well away (I'm one of them).

I know chlorine is quite drying to the hair and scalp. Can you wear a swimming cap to protect the hair? If you can't, then CO washing would be ideal for you since you'll be able to wash your hair every day without having to use harsh shampoo. I'm not sure if CO will get the chlorine out though. I imagine it would, but maybe some more knowldegable LHC'ers would like to answer that for sure.

[RitaPG]

You can find all sorts of ingredients here http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlreading/celebrities/ingredients-commonly-found-in-hair-care-products and here http://www.tightlycurly.com/ingredients/

[GRU]

Hi again :)

I'm using an unscented conditioner for sensitive skin for CO at the moment and would like your advice on the ingredients. They are:

AQUA (SPRING WATER), CETEARYL ALCOHOL, OLEA EUROPAEA (OLIVE) FRUIT OIL*, LEVULINIC ACID, CETRIMONIUM CHLORIDE, HELIANTHUS ANNUUS (SUNFLOWER) SEED OIL*, TRITICUM VULGARE (WHEAT) GERM OIL, ALOE BARBADENSIS (ALOE VERA) LEAF JUICE POWDER*, CAMELLIA SINENSIS (GREEN TEA) LEAF EXTRACT*, FAEX (YEAST) EXTRACT, POTASSIUM SORBATE

It seems to be doing quite a good job and gives me lovely volume (albeit for a day and a bit at the moment!)

Is this a good conditioner to be CO washing with in your opinion?


That looks like a lovely conditioner to use! Lots of good stuff, no yucky stuff! :thumbsup:

[mduggan]

Hi again :)

I'm using an unscented conditioner for sensitive skin for CO at the moment and would like your advice on the ingredients. They are:

AQUA (SPRING WATER), CETEARYL ALCOHOL, OLEA EUROPAEA (OLIVE) FRUIT OIL*, LEVULINIC ACID, CETRIMONIUM CHLORIDE, HELIANTHUS ANNUUS (SUNFLOWER) SEED OIL*, TRITICUM VULGARE (WHEAT) GERM OIL, ALOE BARBADENSIS (ALOE VERA) LEAF JUICE POWDER*, CAMELLIA SINENSIS (GREEN TEA) LEAF EXTRACT*, FAEX (YEAST) EXTRACT, POTASSIUM SORBATE

It seems to be doing quite a good job and gives me lovely volume (albeit for a day and a bit at the moment!)

Is this a good conditioner to be CO washing with in your opinion?

sounds awesome! May I ask its name? I may try to pick some up :)

[novemberfoxtrot]

I have been cone free and CO since about December. I've been using my old Tresseme conditioner as shaving cream. That big bottle lasts a long time!

Last week, I was thinking about shaving my legs and using some thicker conditioner on my length. But my signals got crossed and I squirted some Tresseme on my palm and proceeded to put it in my hair. Results were gross! I couldn't believe how much my hair dislikes cones! I had no idea. Any time I touched my hair I felt like my hands were coated in grossness.

I finally had time to baking soda it out last night and my love with my hair has been rekindled. Thank goodness! I have volume! And it's soft. CO hasn't really been giving me those two things....I might cross over to the BS/ACV side.

[silverthread]

Anyone here tried the "Yes to Carrots" cone-free conditioner?

[novemberfoxtrot]

Anyone here tried the "Yes to Carrots" cone-free conditioner?

I tried yes to cucumbers and it was too rich for me.

[GRU]

That reminds me, I have some carrot chips in the fridge I can nibble on! :D

[silverthread]

That reminds me, I have some carrot chips in the fridge I can nibble on! :D

Glad I could be of help. :)

[afu]

Have any of you CO washers used CO at the same time as using Monistat/Daktarin? Considering jumping on that bandwagon and seeing if it does anything for me but don't want to sacrifice CO

[cmg]

I'm a newbie on the forum and have some questions about CO washing! Does it work on fine/medium straight hair? I'm prone to oiliness at my roots, but I try to wash it only every other day, but maybe CO washing would be better? What are cones? Also, I'm a kids swim coach, so my hair is constantly full of chlorine, which I know needs to be washed out with shampoo... right?

Chlorine is a gas and wount stick to your hair. The kompounds used to chlorinate the water (either Ca(ClO)2 or NaClO) are broken down in the water, reacting with the CO2 in the air and producing chlorine gas and kalcium karbonate (water hardener). The gas kan be smelled, but it will dissipate away from your hair by itself. Its a PR-gimmick, preying on peoples insecurities. Rinse your hair thoroughly with clean water and it will be gone. Some people with very porous hair can still smell some chlorine afterwards but this cannot be counteracted with a simple shampoo, they just mask it with perfume! They are not magic.

Kelating agents dont remove chlorine either, they remove metal salts etc.. What chlorine-shampoos really do is to counteract some of the discoloration some people experience, especially fair haired people or people with bleached hair or extensions. The discoloration is caused by calcium, copper, zinc and other metals in the pipes, not from chlorine. It has strong oxdative properties and pipes are often corroded in such places. This doesnt happen just in swimming pools either, the metals can come from your own well as well. The discoloration can be temporarily counteracted with ascorbic acid-rinses or actually ketchup. The anti-chlorine-shampoos often contain silver or purple pigments for this purpose. They dont actually do anything with the chlorine though. Oiling your hair is a more natural way to protect your hair, both from chlorine and metals from pipes. Sour rinses might loosen the rest (ascorbic acid used to be often recomended by hair salons).

I am allergic to chlorine. I have never gotten any detectable better results from using shampoo than from showering in just plain water. I also remove chlorine before I use the tab water in my aquariums. Since its a gas I only have to pour it out and wait for most of it to go away. No need to shampoo my fish :D I can use a fixative from the photography hobby if I think its necessary, but this only speeds it up just a little http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiosulfate


I finally had time to baking soda it out last night and my love with my hair has been rekindled. Thank goodness! I have volume! And it's soft. CO hasn't really been giving me those two things....I might cross over to the BS/ACV side.
I love the feeling BS/sour rinses give to my hair also, but lately I have been thinking that this can probably be overdone too. Basically you are giving your hair "a mild perm" every time you do this. Its a rollercoaster in terms of pH up and down every time, just like a perm. I am wondering about the long term effects of this. Does anyone know?


Glad I could be of help.
Look who's the enablinator now! :)

/ CMG

[luxepiggy]

Sour rinses might loosen the rest (ascorbic acid used to be often recomended by hair salons).


I've been dechloraminating (my local utility uses chloramine instead of chlorine) my rinse water with ascorbic acid and citric acid for the past few months and it has had a wonderful effect on my hair (^(oo)^)v

[cmg]

I've been dechloraminating (my local utility uses chloramine instead of chlorine) my rinse water with ascorbic acid and citric acid for the past few months and it has had a wonderful effect on my hair (^(oo)^)v
They dont remove chlorine, they remove the water hardiness (the carbonate hardiness part of it) by sedimentation.

/ CMG

[Sunshineliz]

So if you can't get chlorine in your hair, why does my hair feel much worse after swimming in a chlorinated pool rather than simply getting it wet any other way?

But regardless of whether there is chlorine or any other substance getting on my hair, my CO washing after swimming is working fine. And I noticed a big difference if I soak my hair in water before swimming (going with the theory being that it keeps the pool water out if it is already soaked):shrug: Also another website said that as long as the conditioner had a certain substance (I think it was something like PC-150, but I'm not looking at it or my conditioner at the moment, so I can't remember exactly what it was--I'll add it in later when I can get out my conditioner) then it would clean pool water out well enough. Mine has it, so I didn't worry too much.

I swim most days with the kids in the summer and so far this routine is working. And I'm partially silver-haired (which can stain) and DD3 is blonde (which we all know can turn green with pool swimming) and neither of us are having coloration problems. We both use the same conditioner for CO.

[cmg]

So if you can't get chlorine in your hair, why does my hair feel much worse after swimming in a chlorinated pool rather than simply getting it wet any other way?
I never said you couldnt get it in your hair. You will, while in the pool.

/ CMG

[luxepiggy]

They dont remove chlorine, they remove the water hardiness (the carbonate hardiness part of it) by sedimentation.

/ CMG

Actually ascorbic acid does neutralize chlorine and chloramine in tap water. The SF Water authority has advised that a 1000 mg Vitamin C tablet will neutralize the chloramine in an average bathtub of water. Ascorbic acid has been included in the AWWA (American Water Works Association) standard as an approved dechlorinating agent since 2005 (^(oo)^)v

http://www.sfwater.org/modules/showdocument.aspx?documentid=957

Furthermore, ascorbic and citric acid do not remove water hardness by sedimentation; conversely, they act as sequestering agents, binding to free metal ions in the water to keep the ions in solution, thus preventing their reaction with and deposition onto other surfaces such as the hair.

[firegypsy]

I can only speak about my experience, but I used BS/ACV for two years. It KILLED my hair. I don't know how or why, but it started out feeling wonderful and by the end my hair was breaking off. My hairdresser finally told me I had to stop. And she's a friend, it wasn't to sell me her products. She just explained the chemistry and told me it was way too harsh for my hair.

[louzen]

sounds awesome! May I ask its name? I may try to pick some up :)

Sure! It's from Green People and you can buy from here http://www.greenpeople.co.uk/organic-base-no-scent-conditioner-200ml.aspx

[Dovetail]

Could you all tell me what you think of this stuff?
I was given this stuff as a graduation gift and I'm really not sure what to make of it. It's called LOGICS gloss balm.

http://static.zoovy.com/img/beautymart/W166-H180-Bffffff/M/matrix_logics_gloss_balm.jpg

It has in it:
propylene glycol, water, cyclopentasiloxane, hexylene glycol,dimethicone, phenyl trimethicone, polyacrylamide, peg-40 hydrogenated castor oil, phenoxyethanol, c13-14 isoparaffin, ppg-20 methyl glucose ether, fragrance, peg-40, methylparaben, ethylparaben, laureth-7, ppg-5-ceteth-20, ci 7789/ titanium dioxide, calcium aluminum, borosilicate, panthenol, calcium sodium borosilicate, mica, amodimethicone, hexyl cinnamal, silica, butylphenyl methylpropional, 2-oleamido-1, 3-octadecanediol, ethylhexyl methoxycinnamate, benzyl salicylate,linalool, citronellol, tocopherol, trideceth-6, benzyl alcohol, geraniol, alpha-isomethyl ionone, benzyl benzoate, centrimonium chloride.

whew. It looks like it's full of cones and alcohol to me. I don't have anything aginst cones, but the conditioner I'm using now doesn't have them in it.

Would something like this be good to save for winter when my hair gets dry and staticy?

[afu]

I think I'll leave this one to a cone user - I've never used cones long term as part of CO so im not sure how much build up you are likely to get from this. How often do you usually shampoo? I know there are some people on this thread of shampoo weekly/monthly and if you do routinely shampoo cleanse you might get away with it on your lengths

[Dovetail]

Well, since I started CO on may 20th I haven't shampooed. I used cones but switched to no cone V05 (cause Im cheap, and poor xD) on the 19th. I didn't shampoo between.

My hair has seemed fine, but my roots are a bit gressey faster since switching to the v05, I just have been chalking it up to transition. ;)

I haven't used the gloss stuff yet, since I have no idea what to make of it. I'm sure knowing my luck, if I didn't ask about it and just used it right away I'd have some catastrophic side effect.

[Ookami]

Anyone tried the Twisted Sista De-frizz conditionner? Thanks...
It doesn't seem to have animal ingredients in it and they claim it's not tested on animals (how reliable this statement is, I don't know)...
I read a few reviews it seems very moisturizing...
it's sulfate free from what I read (the conditioner, not the shampoo), I guess it's cone free as well

[Kizuna]

Well, since I started CO on may 20th I haven't shampooed. I used cones but switched to no cone V05 (cause Im cheap, and poor xD) on the 19th. I didn't shampoo between.

My hair has seemed fine, but my roots are a bit gressey faster since switching to the v05, I just have been chalking it up to transition. ;)

I haven't used the gloss stuff yet, since I have no idea what to make of it. I'm sure knowing my luck, if I didn't ask about it and just used it right away I'd have some catastrophic side effect.

I think that you might need to clarify with schampo after a while if you use the gloss. It really seem to be packed with cones and since conditioner usually don't solve them, they might cause build up. I guess it depends on how you hair and scapl handles it. When I had cones in my hair in november it got fatty really fast.

[luxepiggy]

Could you all tell me what you think of this stuff?
I was given this stuff as a graduation gift and I'm really not sure what to make of it. It's called LOGICS gloss balm.

http://static.zoovy.com/img/beautymart/W166-H180-Bffffff/M/matrix_logics_gloss_balm.jpg

It has in it:
propylene glycol, water, cyclopentasiloxane, hexylene glycol,dimethicone, phenyl trimethicone, polyacrylamide, peg-40 hydrogenated castor oil, phenoxyethanol, c13-14 isoparaffin, ppg-20 methyl glucose ether, fragrance, peg-40, methylparaben, ethylparaben, laureth-7, ppg-5-ceteth-20, ci 7789/ titanium dioxide, calcium aluminum, borosilicate, panthenol, calcium sodium borosilicate, mica, amodimethicone, hexyl cinnamal, silica, butylphenyl methylpropional, 2-oleamido-1, 3-octadecanediol, ethylhexyl methoxycinnamate, benzyl salicylate,linalool, citronellol, tocopherol, trideceth-6, benzyl alcohol, geraniol, alpha-isomethyl ionone, benzyl benzoate, centrimonium chloride.

whew. It looks like it's full of cones and alcohol to me. I don't have anything aginst cones, but the conditioner I'm using now doesn't have them in it.

Would something like this be good to save for winter when my hair gets dry and staticy?

That is going to be WAY heavy for F hair. My guess is that it will make your hair look greasy/stringy no matter how little you try to use.

The formula really looks more suitable for coarse and/or chemically damaged hair. Cyclopentasiloxane in an ingredients list is usually a sign of a heavy product, because cyclopentasiloxane is used to improve the spreading behavior of high molecular weight silicone fluids and gums.

[lapushka]

That is going to be WAY heavy for F hair. My guess is that it will make your hair look greasy/stringy no matter how little you try to use. The formula really looks more suitable for coarse and/or chemically damaged hair. Generally whenever you see cyclopentasiloxane in an ingredients list, there's good chance the product is going to be pretty heavy, because cyclopentasiloxane is used to improve the spreading behavior of high molecular weight silicone fluids and gums.

Isn't this more like a leave-in, or like a pomade / curl cream?

[Dovetail]

=^_^= see I knew I'd have catastrophic side effects if I didn't ask first! Pocket piggy to the rescue! :cheese:

I'll have to remember that about the Cyclopentasiloxane for future products. It sort of makes sense since my sister-in-law has very thick, curly hair so she just assumes all the things she uses I can.

lapushka- it's sort of a goopy, opalescent type of ...goop... Not thick or pasty like a pomade, sort of like a conditioner type of texture. It's really pretty in the jar though, all sparkly and multicolored.

I guess now I just need to find someone I can pawn it off on. :o

[cmg]

Actually ascorbic acid does neutralize chlorine and chloramine in tap water.
No it doesnt. It speeds up the breakdown of a number of molecules that can be present in a chlorinated water source, but there is no chemical neutralisation or removal of the compounds. Carbon filters, designed and adapted to the particular molecule size of the chloramines, will remove the chlorine part from aqueous solutions. The ammonia part of the chloramines will be removed with reverse osmosis filtration. Ascorbic acid does not take care of any of these. Also boiling, like suggested in the link you gave, is not going to neutralize chlorine either. Chlorine is a chemical element and will not change into something else thru boiling. I could boil my tap water endlessly, if there are chloramines my dwarf shrimp culture will still die. :(

Also other lines in that link are misleading: "People can safely drink chloraminated water because their digestive process neutralizes chloramine before it enters the bloodstream." Firstly, the chloramine will not enter the bloodstream thru the stomach, but thru inhaling. Then it can be damaging. The thing is also, you already have copious amounts of chlorine in your stomach acid. You dont hurt your stomach with a tiny amount of chlorine you would drink from tap water or swallowing a few mouthfuls out of a pool. Chlorine will and does enter your bloodstream this way, because it is an essential part of your bodily functons. The problems with chlor and/or chloramines are among other things the organic byproducts and the irritating effects occuring in the lungs. Your shower is therefore more toxic than if you drink the same water. Problems also come from DNA-damages, cancer risks and bioaccumulating, and usually not from drinking small amounts of water containing some chlorine and/or chloramines. Though, some of these risk factors have not been extensively studied yet.

Depending on what form of chlorine is used (different countries use it in different compounds) you have more or less degree of breakdown in an aqueous solution. Kloramines are usually very stable dissolved in water, and therefore do not smell either. They are preferred in tap water for this reason (so the general public won't actually feel "chlorinated" when in use). What you have in the pools are usually different compounds and/or breakdown molecules in heavy concentrations. Them you can smell.

Here are some links with better scientific foundation:
http://www.freeh2otesting.com/chloramine.htm
http://www.chloramine.org/chloraminefacts.htm


Furthermore, ascorbic and citric acid do not remove water hardness by sedimentation;
Actually they do. These kind of acids have been used for centuries in gardening, aquariums and various other areas for this very purpose. In practical use they are poured into say a bucket of water, and after some time the water is poured off and used. The karbonates remain as a greyish slime on the bottom of the bucket (color also depends on what other minerals exist in the water). Some of the acids are less useful for certain purposes, so you have to know what you are doing. For example the use of oxalic acid is (usually) OK for making water softer for an aquarium, but the water would become toxic for your orchids. Several phosphates can be used in a similar way for the same purposes.

/ CMG

[cmg]

Oh and this warning: Dont ever mix chlorine (the desinfectant product you can buy) with any acid. This will produce chlordioxide, which besides from being extremely toxic, is also very reactive and explosive!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorine_dioxide

The only time you can use acids, like vinegar for example, is when cleaning away possible residue of sodium hypochlorite (SWE: natriumhypoklorit) in boilers or pipes etc., where it can remain as a whiteish dry substance, similar to kalcium stains. The possible amount of chlorine gas released during this is tiny and neglectible.

/ CMG

[cmg]

That is going to be WAY heavy for F hair. My guess is that it will make your hair look greasy/stringy no matter how little you try to use.

The formula really looks more suitable for coarse and/or chemically damaged hair. Cyclopentasiloxane in an ingredients list is usually a sign of a heavy product, because cyclopentasiloxane is used to improve the spreading behavior of high molecular weight silicone fluids and gums.

I second this. But still, with the silicones and the synthetic polymers like this polyacrylamide, it may be something that is easily spreading very thin (and coating of course) and perhaps suitable for not so thick strands also. I guess you would have to try it to see if your hair likes it. Maybe if applied in sligthly damp hair it will spread nicer and not get sticky or thick?

/ CMG

[luxepiggy]

No it doesnt. It speeds up the breakdown of a number of molecules that can be present in a chlorinated water source, but there is no chemical neutralisation or removal of the compounds. Carbon filters, designed and adapted to the particular molecule size of the chloramines, will remove the chlorine part from aqueous solutions. The ammonia part of the chloramines will be removed with reverse osmosis filtration. Ascorbic acid does not take care of any of these. Also boiling, like suggested in the link you gave, is not going to neutralize chlorine either. Chlorine is a chemical element and will not change into something else thru boiling. I could boil my tap water endlessly, if there are chloramines my dwarf shrimp culture will still die. :(

Piggy's hair doesn't require such stringent water quality control as dwarf shrimp cultures :D For hair-washing purposes, I don't need to remove elemental chlorine altogether; I merely want to neutralize the hypochlorous acid by reaction with ascorbic acid, thus:
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff33/shoppingpiglet/20120623.jpg
(Source: US Department of Agriculture and Forest Service (http://www.fs.fed.us/eng/pubs/pdf/05231301.pdf))


Here are some links with better scientific foundation:
http://www.freeh2otesting.com/chloramine.htm
http://www.chloramine.org/chloraminefacts.htm
With all due respect, I personally feel more comfortable relying on scientific studies conducted by the US Department of Agriculture and Forest Service, the San Francisco Public Utilities Commission, and the American Water Works Association, rather than information disseminated by a company that sells water purification products and a grassroots citizens' action group, KWIM? (^(oo)~)


Actually they do. These kind of acids have been used for centuries in gardening, aquariums and various other areas for this very purpose. In practical use they are poured into say a bucket of water, and after some time the water is poured off and used. The karbonates remain as a greyish slime on the bottom of the bucket (color also depends on what other minerals exist in the water). Some of the acids are less useful for certain purposes, so you have to know what you are doing. For example the use of oxalic acid is (usually) OK for making water softer for an aquarium, but the water would become toxic for your orchids. Several phosphates can be used in a similar way for the same purposes.


Interesting! For some reason I had always thought the metal ions were sequestered in a dissolved state in the water . . . do you happen to know how the general chemical equation looks for the formation of the slimy layer? Curious piggies want to know! (^(oo)^)`

[mduggan]

as to chlorine...

I do not know the chemistry.... I DO know that 15 years ago in a fit of desperation I had an Alcat test done for food sensitivities. Chlorine was at the top of my 4-page list. Realizing it would be virtually impossible to remove all chlorine from my life, we switched to bottled water and went out on a search for a water filter for the shower. Eventually we found one that claimed to remove 90+&#37; of the chlorine. We installed it and from the first shower my skin felt better and my hair texture improved. When we stay somewhere and i am forced to use a shower with unfiltered water, my skin and hair dry out.

Did the filter remove the chlorine? Who knows? It DID remove something that was harming me - and my hair - so that was fine by me.

Of course, swimming in a chlorinated pool is no longer for me....... used to bother my breathing anyway, so not a big loss.

Just my two cents... jumping out of the conversation now....

[GRU]

It has in it:
propylene glycol, water, cyclopentasiloxane, hexylene glycol,dimethicone, phenyl trimethicone, polyacrylamide, peg-40 hydrogenated castor oil, phenoxyethanol, c13-14 isoparaffin, ppg-20 methyl glucose ether, fragrance, peg-40, methylparaben, ethylparaben, laureth-7, ppg-5-ceteth-20, ci 7789/ titanium dioxide, calcium aluminum, borosilicate, panthenol, calcium sodium borosilicate, mica, amodimethicone, hexyl cinnamal, silica, butylphenyl methylpropional, 2-oleamido-1, 3-octadecanediol, ethylhexyl methoxycinnamate, benzyl salicylate,linalool, citronellol, tocopherol, trideceth-6, benzyl alcohol, geraniol, alpha-isomethyl ionone, benzyl benzoate, centrimonium chloride.





I'll have to remember that about the Cyclopentasiloxane for future products. It sort of makes sense since my sister-in-law has very thick, curly hair so she just assumes all the things she uses I can.

The product itself isn't "dangerous" but it's definitely not CO-washing friendly. All of the items bolded in red are cones -- you'll need to shampoo regularly to remove them.

Too bad your SIL won't come over to the CO-washing side... her hair would likely be much better behaved without all this crap she's slathering on and stripping off regularly!

[Dovetail]

Oh gru! I wish she would too, but she's 16... I'm lucky if I can convince her to do ANYTHING lol. At least she doesn't brush and other curly haired activities. I kinda mentioned that I CO wash, and both her and my MIL made an eyebrow face and said "oh honey! You can't put conditioner on your roots! Your hair will get all greesy!" I just kinda laughed and said "does my hair LOOK greesy?" and they just gave me a "now that you mentioned it...." look. I wonder if I could convert her for one month, and then she could see if she hates it or not. It is summer time, so it isn't like she'll be in school...

I recall piggy going on about water solubility, or some such, Ill have to read back a bit. cones that are water soluble are ok, but cones that aren't, aren't? :confused:


mduggan- how odd, I haven't met anyone allergic to chlorine, I'm so glad you found a way to fix it though :) I had a friend who was allergic to all kinds of starches. I felt so bad for her, no cake, no cookies, no potatoes!

[GRU]

Most (but not all) cones will build up if not washed away with harsh detergents. Some are water soluble, some aren't water soluble but don't build up. It's just easier for me to avoid ALL cones, particularly since I found out they were the cause of an allergic reaction my eyes were having.

As for your sister, feel free to show her my pics, if you think it would help. I wash with shampoo once a year in the fall. My roots are NEVER greasy unless I've applied copious amounts of oil.

[Nellon]

Today I tried CO-washing for the first time. My hair feels super soft! Just wanted to share :)

[novemberfoxtrot]

I can only speak about my experience, but I used BS/ACV for two years. It KILLED my hair. I don't know how or why, but it started out feeling wonderful and by the end my hair was breaking off. My hairdresser finally told me I had to stop. And she's a friend, it wasn't to sell me her products. She just explained the chemistry and told me it was way too harsh for my hair.

Good to know. I guess I'll only use it as a clarifier from time to time. Thanks!

[caadam]

When you start to learn there is no "one size fits all" hair routine and spread the message, causing some ruckus with people who follow mainstream hair care ideas. ;)

ETA: And... I thought this was the "You know you're an LHCer" thread! LOL Wow... I have no idea how that happened. I guess I'm kind of out of it (I've been having stomach problems for a couple of days and lost a lot of sleep last night). Heh. :o Don't mind me.

[caadam]

On another note, I'm about two weeks into CO, and all is well. I did have a little bit of dandruff issues, but I've been able to treat with with EVOO and jojoba oil.

I did my oil and conditioner mix a few days ago and it worked great. My hair was soft and super shiny from it. I just washed my hair today, but added a bit of lavender EO to my normal mix. My hair feels pretty moisturized (I think I ended up using more oil than I intended), but is looking very soft as it dries.

[mduggan]

mduggan- how odd, I haven't met anyone allergic to chlorine, I'm so glad you found a way to fix it though :) I had a friend who was allergic to all kinds of starches. I felt so bad for her, no cake, no cookies, no potatoes!

:) imagine my surprise when I found out! It's not as though one could avoid chlorine.... for the previous two months I had tried to be supper healthy - eating more vegetables, drinking more water, eating soy....and discovered that everything I was doing to improve my health was contributing to my asthma and hives.

I was amazed at the improvement in my hair after one filtered shower ...

I don't tolerate potatoes - I believe it's the iodine, but I have no trouble with cakes, cookies, and pies.

and I can still eat chocolate :applause so the world is good!

[GRU]

and I can still eat chocolate :applause so the world is good!

Seriously, nothing else really matters! :lol:

[mduggan]

Seriously, nothing else really matters! :lol:

agreed! Probably a good thing no one makes a chocolate conditioner ;)

[luxepiggy]

Oh gru! I wish she would too, but she's 16... I'm lucky if I can convince her to do ANYTHING lol. At least she doesn't brush and other curly haired activities. I kinda mentioned that I CO wash, and both her and my MIL made an eyebrow face and said "oh honey! You can't put conditioner on your roots! Your hair will get all greesy!" I just kinda laughed and said "does my hair LOOK greesy?" and they just gave me a "now that you mentioned it...." look. I wonder if I could convert her for one month, and then she could see if she hates it or not. It is summer time, so it isn't like she'll be in school...
My family and friends have all had the same reaction :p


I recall piggy going on about water solubility, or some such, Ill have to read back a bit. cones that are water soluble are ok, but cones that aren't, aren't? :confused:

This is a common (FALSE) misconception. Buildup has very little to do with water-solubility, particularly when it comes to rinse-off conditioners. I don't know who originally perpetrated this erroneous idea years ago, but I think they have done a huge disservice to the hair care community. Think about it logically for a second: if anything that isn't water-soluble builds up on the hair, what about oils? They're certainly not water-soluble ;)


Most (but not all) cones will build up if not washed away with harsh detergents. Some are water soluble, some aren't water soluble but don't build up.

As usual, GRU has it right!

The 'cones that are most likely to build-up are among those most commonly included in hair care formulations: dimethicone and especially dimethiconol. Silicone crosspolymers and copolymers are also prone to build-up.

The following 'cones MAY build up if used in excess without shampooing, but are unlikely to do so at normal use levels: behenoxy dimethicone, cetyl dimethicone, cetearyl methicone, phenyl dimethicone, phenyl trimethicone, stearyl methicone, stearoxy dimethicone.

The following 'cones do NOT build up due to the inherent nature of their chemical structure: amodimethicone, bis-aminopropyl dimethicone, silicone quaternium, trimethylsilylamodimethicone.

The following 'cones do NOT build up because they slowly dissipate from the surface of the hair within a day: cyclomethicone, cyclopentasiloxane, and any other 'cone beginning with "cyclo-".

The following 'cones do NOT build up because they are water-soluble: dimethicone copolyols.

[Dovetail]

Thank you so much everyone for all the advice. I think I'll find a nice light oil if I want to add more shine to my hair, but for now it's just fine and happy how it is. :cool:

I got curious so I went to look, and A LOT of my old products, I haven't used any of them since before joining here, have those cones in them. I suppose that might be why I never liked or used them.

Piggy I've written that out in my little notebook! Hopefully it'll help to keep in mind when looking at new products :3

for now my scalp is having fits being switched over to no-cone land, getting all greesy in a couple of days instead of 3-4.

I know that you use cones now, but did you ever try without them? I just wonder if you had the same reaction and determined that it was because you needed cones, or if you had the oily scalp but your scalp acclimated and you realised you needed cones for other reasons (like tanlgies and so on)?

I'm just trying to figure out what I'm kind of looking at transition wise. I know everyone is diffrent though

I keep thinking of the "cyclo-" cones as cyclops heh, I have no idea why...


Note: I'm a bit confused by this:
"The 'cones that are most likely to build-up are among those most commonly included in hair care formulations: dimethicone "
but then you go on to say: "The following 'cones do NOT build up because they are water-soluble: dimethicone copolyols."

So I assume then that Dimethicone and Dimethicone COPOLYOLS are two diffrent things despite the similar beginning?

Also I've never bought it but:
http://img2.etsystatic.com/000/0/6406781/il_570xN.282518690.jpg (http://www.etsy.com/listing/78795752/cacao-bark-deep-conditioning-hair-treat?ref=sr_gallery_10&ga_search_query=chocolate+conditioner&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_ship_to=ZZ&ga_min=0&ga_max=0&ga_search_type=all)

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