Concern a/b products

[Cipher Highwind]

My hair is not cooperating...I had to get the ends cut off and lost about 6" returning it just below shoulder length. The same process with the ends is repeating yet again, and I cannot help but to think that the product &/or my procedure is causing this problem.

I am using Biolage Ultra-hydrating shampoo and detangling solution in mornings, and either the ultra-hydrating balm or the Garnier Sleek & Shine for frizzy, dry, unmanageable hair in evenings. The ingredients for all four are here:

Shampoo
Water (Agua), Sodium Laureth Sulfate, Disodium Cocamphodiacetate, Dimethicone, Cetyl Alcohol, Hexylene Glycol, Hydroxystearyl Cetyl Ether, Sodium Cetearyl Sulfate, Cocamide MIPA, Fragrance, Citric Acid, Propylene Glycol, Benzoic Acid, Salicylic Acid, Guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium Chloride, Methylparaben, Sodium Citrate, Disodium EDTA, Butylparaben, Ethylparaben, Polysorbate 20, Propylparaben, Isobutylparaben, Arginine HCl, Algae Extract (Algae), Sage Leaf Extract (Salvia Officinalis), Pollen Extract, Saponaria Officinalis Extract, Saponaria Officinalis, Silk Amino Acids, Wheat Germ Oil (Triticum Vulgare), Lemongrass Extract (Cymbopogon Schoenanthus)

Balm
Water (Agua), Cetearyl Alcohol, Behentrimonium Chloride Glycerin, Amodimethicone, Cetyl Esters, Lanolin, Fragrance, Methylparaben, Cetrimonium Chloride, Tricontanyl PVP, Chlorhexidine Dihydrochloride, Propylene Glycol, Polysorbate 20, Shea Butter (Butyrospermum Parkii) Fruit, Algae Extract (Algae), Sage Leaf Extract (Salvia Officinalis), Pollen Extract, Saponaria Officinalis Extract, Saponaria Officinalis, Silk Amino Acid, Wheat Germ Oil, Wheat Germ Oil (Triticum Vulgare), Lemongrass Extract (Cymbopogon Schoenanthus)

Detangling Sol.
Water, Cetearyl Alcohol, Behentrimonium Methosulfate, Cetyl Alcohol, Wheat Germ Extract (Triticum Vulgare), Hops Extract (Humulus Lupulus), Sweet Almond Extract (Prunus Amygdalus Dulcis), Pollen Extract, Sunflower Extract (Helianthus Annuus), Cyclomethicone, Citric Acid, Dimethiconol/Silsesquioxane Copolymer, Dimethiconol, Stearamine Oxide, Stearyl Alcohol, Propylene Glycol, Octoxynol-40, PEG 15 Cocomonium Chloride, Polysorbate 20, Fragrance, DMDM Hydantoin, Methylparaben, Ext D&C Violet 2, FD&C Blue 1


http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/8084/dsc01111.jpg

If one is not advisable, could you reccomend another in lieu?

In the shower, after applying either of the three later products, I come the hair starting at the ends, working my way to the top.

There is another issue - I am in an apartment building and there is no water softener available, and my water filter keeps going out because of the high levels of calcium carbonate in the water. Could this be a cause as well?

I'm nearly at my wit's end and I do not want to become one of those short-hais I see all over the place :p Thanks in advance for any assistance in this matter.

[misstwist]

What do you mean "the same process with the ends is repeating"? What is happening with the ends of your hair and why did you "need" to have six inches cut off.

Are you using a hair dryer or a flat iron or curling iron or hot rollers or any combination of those appliances?

[OhioLisa]

All 3 of those products contain cones. It could just be some heavy duty buildup going on. Have you tried cone-free products in the past? I would suggest clarifying and then using cone-free products, as well as keeping your hair in updos as much as possible. Oiling and some of the recipes on this site for "de-frizz" sprays could help as well.

[Cipher Highwind]

It was tangling pretty severely, and the stylist advised me that about that much had to come off because of the trouble on the ends. What was happening was that they were drying off, breaking, splitting, all sort of horrible things, and most of all, they were becoming very brittle and impossible to detangle.

I am not sure what cones are, but if you could advise other products that do not have 'cones'?

[SimplyViki]

Hello! I see that you are pretty new to this site. I'm somewhat new as well, but I've picked up a few things here and there that may help you. :)

Firstly, "cones" are what we LHCers call silicones for short. You can read all about them in an article called "To Cone or Not to Cone" in the articles section of this site, under the hair care section of the articles.

Also, you might want to read some of the other articles, too, you'll find answers to questions you didn't even know you had!

Lastly, the thing is, you're asking for somebody to tell you which product you shouldn't be using, but everybody's hair is radically different. So while the products you are using might work for one person, they might not work so well on another person. It takes a lot of patience and experimentation to figure out what your hair responds best to (I'm still working on it myself).

Hope that helps a little, have fun looking around! :flower:

[Natalia]

My advice go browse the article section, then clairify to get rid of some build up from cones and other things, hairtype yourself (see aricles section), the re-acces with the hair diagnostic articel (is sort of the whats wrong with my hair type thing). Your hair has to be clairifyed frist top type it and get a real look at what your hair needs then you can go from there. Thsi place can be overwhelming to new folks so the article section gives you a good overveiw. Also check here before going for any more "trims" lol. Happy hair hunting :D

[may1em]

Welcome! I'm jumping on the "go look at the articles!" section. I think they have information there about how to tell if your hair needs moisture or protein and what kinds of stuff to use to help those problems. You want to clarify and then use a deep treatment appropriate to what your hair needs before doing any experiments.

Basically, you have to learn to read ingredients lists - know what stuff does and what stuff your hair likes and doesn't like and choose products accordingly. You'll learn quickly that the promises on the label are pretty meaningless.

Also, watch out for mechanical damage. Hair whipping around in the wind or rubbing against your shirt and jacket collars can fray, split, and break. If you wear your hair in a ponytail all the time in the same place, you can get breakage from that. If your hair is long enough, try protective styles like buns. If you braid, use something very gentle like a hosiery hair tie to tie it off - if your hair ties have metal or clumps of glue, they could be causing damage.

ETA: I read more closely - it sounds like you have hard water. Some people have success with doing a final rinse of distilled or bottled water (or if you have a filter in your kitchen you can fill a jug there and use that). I don't have this problem, but it could be contributing.

[manderly]

You're washing your hair with SLS poos two times a day? Am I reading that right?

If so, WHY are you washing your hair that much. That's A LOT of washing for your hair to stand up to. Imagine washing your favorite t-shirt 2 times a day and see how long it lasts.

Peruse the articles section, browse around the Mane Forum, learn the habits and routines of some of the members with hair similar to yours, and go from there. Many people wash their hair only a couple times a week or less. We do have daily washers, but I've never heard of anyone washing 2x a day.

Welcome to LHC, I'm sure you'll see your hair turn around in no time. :flower:

[Cipher Highwind]

I was told so long as I was showering, if I conditioned it a second time, it would not be a problem. I apply the acne soap twice a day due to oily skin, and if it does not wash off completely, it irritates. I only wash once per day with shampoo.

I will certainly check the articles in that case, paying attention to information about the ingredients. In all honesty, I did not see any products at the store that were on the 'no cones' or 'no sulphurs' list...

[Cipher Highwind]

Also, where is the articles section, and why can't I edit my post?

[manderly]

I was told so long as I was showering, if I conditioned it a second time, it would not be a problem. I apply the acne soap twice a day due to oily skin, and if it does not wash off completely, it irritates. I only wash once per day with shampoo.

I will certainly check the articles in that case, paying attention to information about the ingredients. In all honesty, I did not see any products at the store that were on the 'no cones' or 'no sulphurs' list...


Ah, I see, you are using conditioner twice a day. Is there some reason you are wetting and conditioning your hair twice a day? If you are conditioning morning and night with a silicone-laden conditioner, I would assume you are getting some serious buildup and require clarifying. You can use something like Neutrogena Anti-Residue shampoo every week or two to remove the excess cones. I would also suggest you cut back to doing your hair only once a day at the most.

You can find the articles at the top of the page in the control bar.

You cannot edit your posts until you have some more posts. :)

[Cipher Highwind]

Ammonium Lauryl Sulfate is a 'gentle sulphate'? I found it in the ingredients list, and dodecyl which is contained in the compound is an alkyl, and the sulfate-free shampoo list in the very important article thread said those are potential drying agents, but excluded a 'gentle sulfate'.

[Iylivarae]

I think that ammonium sulphates are generally a bit less aggressive than sodium sulphates.

[Cipher Highwind]

The ends are still drying out; I switched to shampooing and conditioning once per day with a leave-in conditioner and it still is not working.

I would like to know what is causing these ends to dry out - is it chemical, inherent to having longer hair, or what?

[aisling]

Are you still using those coney, not very moisturising products? Or have you tried to find something new, something that would work better for you? Have you actually clarified as advised earlier?

If you've changed products and clarified, it's time to bring in the heavy duty stuff and try some deep treatments and oils for example to moisturise you ends.

[Rohele]

What are you using right now to wash and condition with? Are you still using the same products?

My hair got really crunchy and dry like you are describing from silicone buildup.

[Fractalsofhair]

Try clarifying,(look for any cheap shampoo that says"Clarifying(or volume or chelating)" and see if that helps. They tend to just be REALLY harsh shampoos. If all else fails, use dish soap. It's the same main ingredient. My local drugstore has a VERY limited selection of haircare products. I'd suggest that, and also then use oil on it. Olive oil is a heavy moisturizing oil, do a hot oil treatment with that and leave it in overnight and wash out gently. (Your hair may look oily. Do this on a weekend). Then, if that fails, use a cheap conditioner and only use conditioner on your hair(brands like Suave, VO5, etc. Not pantene or Garnier.) and only use shampoo once a week. That should moisturize your hair. Use a shine serum if you want or a coney conditioner once in a while.

[Cipher Highwind]

Are you still using those coney, not very moisturising products? Or have you tried to find something new, something that would work better for you? Have you actually clarified as advised earlier?

If you've changed products and clarified, it's time to bring in the heavy duty stuff and try some deep treatments and oils for example to moisturise you ends.


What are you using right now to wash and condition with? Are you still using the same products?

My hair got really crunchy and dry like you are describing from silicone buildup.

I did try clarifying once a week; it did nothing.

I am still using the same shampoo (Biolage Ultra-Hydrating), though I switched to using a deep conditioner for 5-10 minutes in the shower (Redken Real Control Deep Conditioner)...not sure if it has the silicones. I tried one without it, but could not detangle effectively; the hair gets tangly even though I have satin pillowcases.

[Rohele]

Hmmm...

Usually if it's just silicone buildup, my hair feels better with just clarifying.

Have you read the article about diagnosing hair problems? Protein overload (or lack of) can also cause issues. Your shampoo has silk amino acids, which I think might be protein.

Also, do you chemically colour or heat style your hair?

(Sorry for so many questions....)

If the cones seem better for your hair, don't worry about using them - there are many who do, and find that their hair does better on them.

[Cipher Highwind]

Hmmm...

Usually if it's just silicone buildup, my hair feels better with just clarifying.

Have you read the article about diagnosing hair problems? Protein overload (or lack of) can also cause issues. Your shampoo has silk amino acids, which I think might be protein.

Also, do you chemically colour or heat style your hair?

(Sorry for so many questions....)

If the cones seem better for your hair, don't worry about using them - there are many who do, and find that their hair does better on them.

I have not read it yet; could you provide a link?
No colouring in the hair.

[Shiva]

The ends are still drying out; I switched to shampooing and conditioning once per day with a leave-in conditioner and it still is not working.

I would like to know what is causing these ends to dry out - is it chemical, inherent to having longer hair, or what?
Speaking from experience it may be your water (well or city water has issues)... I'm not saying that it's your definite problem, but it's something to consider. Before I got my showerhead filter (aquasana brand) my hair was always dry on the ends and breaking off.... everytime I got my ends trimmed my mom (who is a licsensed hairdresser) looked in amazement at what was going on with my hair because she knew and I knew she didn't cut it like that! You can see my damage in my picture album on my profile.

Just something to think about.

[Aeon F.]

I think Rohele might be referring to some of Kirin's articles- see:

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=44

and

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=17

HTH! :D

[Deborah]

What ELSE are you doing to your hair? Do you use a blow dryer? Do you flat iron or use a curling iron? These are all very damaging to hair, and if you are doing them, you would probably find your hair looking and feeling much better if you stop.

Also, does your hair really need to be washed every day? Most of us don't need washing that often, and doing so can be very drying and damaging, depending on your particular hair of course. But since you are having breakage, this might be something to consider changing.

I'm sure there are many other things to consider. Perhaps if you tell us exactly what you do to your hair on a daily or weekly basis, some of the real hair gurus can pipe up with better help. Just a suggestion. :)

[Katze]

I have very similar hair to yours, and washing every day (or even every other day) is DEFINITELY too much. If your hair is any longer than, let's say, shoulder (basing on my own experience only!) the ends will get dry fast. All those 'cones and mineral based ingredients are not helping.

I suggest two things. First of all start 'stretching your washes' which means going longer and longer between washing. After an adjustment period, you will start to see what your hair is like WITHOUT all that chemical stripping that is going on. It took me about 6 months to see what my hair 'really' is like - very different from the dry tangled mess it was prior to LHC. However, my hair was also heat and dye and bleach damaged so your mileage may vary.

When you do wash, you can clarify as others have described, but then you may need to wash even less. you will only know once you have tried. As mentioned before, everyone's hair is different.

Secondly after you have cleaned those 'cones out, try a deep moisturizing treatment, something like Snowymoon's Moisture Treatment (look in the Recipes section). Again, it *may take some getting used to* - your hair may very likely feel quite different from what you are used to. But stick with it and you will very likely be surprised.

It takes time and patience to move away from excessive washing and harsh treatment. I have been here for more than four years, and am only starting to feel like I have healthy hair.

good luck and hang in there!

Katze

[Rohele]

I think Rohele might be referring to some of Kirin's articles- see:

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=44

and

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=17

HTH! :D

Thank-you Aeon F. :) Yes, those are the articles I was referring to.

[rags]

As a lover of Redken products, I can tell you that if you are using that deep condition every wash, you're probably getting massive buildup. Redken deep conditioners are usually formulated to last 4-8 shampoos. One clarifying wash does not get them out either - at least on my hair. I have to do a couple of "lather, rinse repeat" before I can tell a difference.