Dabur Vatika Coconut Oil confusion

[ChloeDharma]

I was just scrolling through the spices of india website and found this listing for dabur vatika coconut enriched oil....http://www.spicesofindia.co.uk/acatalog/Dabur-Vatika-Coconut-Enriched-Hair-Oil.html
Mineral oil is listed as the first ingredient. Usually vatika coconut oil is just that......coconut oil with no mineral oil in. Anyway, i figured i should warn those avoiding mineral oils.

[danacc]

It looks like there are 2 versions, both with the same name. Here's the one with coconut oil and NO mineral oil, at the same website: http://www.spicesofindia.co.uk/acatalog/Dabur-Vatika-Enriched-Coconut-Hair-Oil-Dabur.html

Very confusing indeed.

[danacc]

I compared a little closer:

"Coconut Enriched..." has mineral oil.
"Enriched Coconut..." does not.


I'll never keep that straight. If they ever change their packaging, I'm doomed. :p

[ChloeDharma]

I compared a little closer:

"Coconut Enriched..." has mineral oil.
"Enriched Coconut..." does not.


I'll never keep that straight. If they ever change their packaging, I'm doomed. :p

LOL yes, very confusing! Just got to make sure we read the ingredients each time.

[nowxisxforever]

Yuuuck mineral oil! I wonder why people are still using that stuff in their beauty products. A lot of the "ethnic" hair/body sections in stores have mineral oil as the first ingredient, it's horrifying. I want to try these things, but I can't bring myself to touch anything with mineral oil in it.

[Krystyle]

Nowxisxforever, sadly everybody is not as educated on these additives as we are and some people find it harder to turn from the behavior that they grew up with. Geesh, all people really have to do is read or at least listen.

[nowxisxforever]

Nowxisxforever, sadly everybody is not as educated on these additives as we are and some people find it harder to turn from the behavior that they grew up with. Geesh, all people really have to do is read or at least listen.

I guess their marketing is working! :poot:

[ktani]

Mineral oil is not evil. It cannot penetrate the hair but a number of other oils cannot do that very well either.


"The notion that mineral oil and petrolatum (Vaseline) are bad for skin has been around for some time, with Aveda being the most visible company to mount a crusade deriding these ingredients. According to many companies that produce "natural" cosmetics, mineral oil and petrolatum are terrible ingredients because they come from crude oil (petroleum) and are used in industry as metal-cutting fluid (among other uses) and, therefore, can harm the skin by forming an oil film and suffocating it. This foolish, recurring misinformation about mineral oil and petrolatum is maddening. After all, crude oil is as natural as any other earth-derived substance. Moreover, lots of ingredients are derived from awful-sounding sources but are nevertheless benign and totally safe. Salt is a perfect example. Common table salt is sodium chloride, composed of sodium and chloride, but salt doesn't have the caustic properties of chloride (a form of chlorine) or the unstable explosiveness of sodium. In fact, it is a completely different compound with the harmful properties of neither of its components. Cosmetics-grade mineral oil and petrolatum are considered the safest, most nonirritating moisturizing ingredients ever found (Sources: Cosmetics & Toiletries, January 2001, page 79; Cosmetic Dermatology, September 2000, pages 44–46). Yes, they can keep air off the skin to some extent, but that's what a good antioxidant is supposed to do; they don't suffocate skin! Moreover, petrolatum and mineral oil are known for being efficacious in wound healing, and are also considered to be among the most effective moisturizing ingredients available (Source: Cosmetics & Toiletries, February 1998, pages 33–40). " (http://www.cosmeticscop.com/skin-care-facts-mineral-oil-safety-nonirritating-moisturizer.aspx)

“Joseph DiNardo with Pharma Cosmetix Research, LLC, inRichmond VA points out in his study that while industrial grade mineral oil may be comedogenic, cosmetic grade mineral oil is not. Comedogenic is a term used to describe cosmetics that cause comedones, more commonly known as blackheads and whiteheads. (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/05/050531075410.htm) Based on this information, mineral oil should rightfully be taken off the list of comedogenic substances, which was developed many years ago yet remains frequently quoted in dermatologic literature.” (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/05/050531075410.htm)

"SKIN PROTECTANT DRUG PRODUCTS FOR OVER-THE-COUNTER HUMAN USE .... The active ingredients of the product consist of any of the following, within the concentration specified for each ingredient: (l) Mineral oil, 50 to 100 percent; 30 to 35 percent in combination with colloidal oatmeal in accordance with 347.20(a)(4). (m) Petrolatum, 30 to 100 percent." (http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFRSearch.cfm?fr=347.10&SearchTerm=mineral%20oil)

[Lile]

That's a very good point Ktani.Mineral oil is not the devil.
I prefer using plant derived oils because they contain nutrients besides having moisturizing properties.Or at least this is what I heard...maybe it's another false belief.

[ktani]

That's a very good point Ktani.Mineral oil is not the devil.
I prefer using plant derived oils because they contain nutrients besides having moisturizing properties.Or at least this is what I heard...maybe it's another false belief.

I prefer plant oils too and coconut oil can deeply penetrate hair and do other things like chelate metal salts. Argan oil can penetrate hair fairly well too, based on reports in the peroxide thread.

It is just that some products like mineral oil have been vilified by marketing groups into something that in fact, they are not, undesirable in any product for any use.

[ktani]

What I find particularly amusing is that while Aveda products may be wonderful for a number of people, Estee Lauder, which owns Aveda, uses petrolatum in their $158 face cream (http://futurederm.wordpress.com/2008/01/30/product-review-estee-lauder-renutriv-intensive-lifting-creme/) with no problem whatsoever and I would bet they use mineral oil in other products of theirs.

Ahh marketing.

While this website is not a top favorite of mine, I do believe that they are accurate about this.
"Mineral Oil Myths
1. Mineral oil is contaminated with carcinogens. While it’s true that some petroleum derivatives contain carcinogenic materials (like some polycyclic aromatic compounds) the mineral oil that is used in the cosmetic and pharmaceutical industry is highly refined and purified. It’s purity is even regulated by the US FDA and other international regulatory agencies. There is absolutely no evidence that cosmetic grade mineral oil causes cancer. And there has been plenty of testing done to ensure that fact. We could find no published reports in any of the dermatological or medical journals indicating a link between mineral oil and any forms of cancer." (http://thebeautybrains.com/2006/11/28/the-top-5-myths-about-mineral-oil-part-1/)

[Rainbow2911]

I'd be more concerned about the TBHQ in the oil than the mineral oil! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tert-Butylhydroquinone

[Othala]

Mineral oil is added to many Indian hair oils as a preservative to prevent the vegetable oils going rancid in hot climates. Mineral oil does nothing for the hair - it is neutral.

I know loads of Indian gals with long, thick ,healthy hair who have been using hair oils with mineral oil in them for years with no problem.

[Culdayne]

Thanks Ktani, there have been many products that i've liked and tossed or haven't tried because of mineral oil. :/ Also many lotions that i've wanted to try.

[Kirin]

Mineral oil is not evil. It cannot penetrate the hair but a number of other oils cannot do that very well either.


"The notion that mineral oil and petrolatum (Vaseline) are bad for skin has been around for some time, with Aveda being the most visible company to mount a crusade deriding these ingredients. According to many companies that produce "natural" cosmetics, mineral oil and petrolatum are terrible ingredients because they come from crude oil (petroleum) and are used in industry as metal-cutting fluid (among other uses) and, therefore, can harm the skin by forming an oil film and suffocating it. This foolish, recurring misinformation about mineral oil and petrolatum is maddening. After all, crude oil is as natural as any other earth-derived substance. Moreover, lots of ingredients are derived from awful-sounding sources but are nevertheless benign and totally safe. Salt is a perfect example. Common table salt is sodium chloride, composed of sodium and chloride, but salt doesn't have the caustic properties of chloride (a form of chlorine) or the unstable explosiveness of sodium. In fact, it is a completely different compound with the harmful properties of neither of its components. Cosmetics-grade mineral oil and petrolatum are considered the safest, most nonirritating moisturizing ingredients ever found (Sources: Cosmetics & Toiletries, January 2001, page 79; Cosmetic Dermatology, September 2000, pages 44–46). Yes, they can keep air off the skin to some extent, but that's what a good antioxidant is supposed to do; they don't suffocate skin! Moreover, petrolatum and mineral oil are known for being efficacious in wound healing, and are also considered to be among the most effective moisturizing ingredients available (Source: Cosmetics & Toiletries, February 1998, pages 33–40). " (http://www.cosmeticscop.com/skin-care-facts-mineral-oil-safety-nonirritating-moisturizer.aspx)

“Joseph DiNardo with Pharma Cosmetix Research, LLC, inRichmond VA points out in his study that while industrial grade mineral oil may be comedogenic, cosmetic grade mineral oil is not. Comedogenic is a term used to describe cosmetics that cause comedones, more commonly known as blackheads and whiteheads. (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/05/050531075410.htm) Based on this information, mineral oil should rightfully be taken off the list of comedogenic substances, which was developed many years ago yet remains frequently quoted in dermatologic literature.” (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/05/050531075410.htm)

"SKIN PROTECTANT DRUG PRODUCTS FOR OVER-THE-COUNTER HUMAN USE .... The active ingredients of the product consist of any of the following, within the concentration specified for each ingredient: (l) Mineral oil, 50 to 100 percent; 30 to 35 percent in combination with colloidal oatmeal in accordance with 347.20(a)(4). (m) Petrolatum, 30 to 100 percent." (http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFRSearch.cfm?fr=347.10&SearchTerm=mineral%20oil)

Ktani.... I think I love you.... marry me? ROFL

I have been saying this for eons, and was getting a little tired of being told I am "dumb" for using "evil" mineral oil. For many like me, mineral oil is a godsend, and often the only thing that works without some kind of reaction.

Companies, such as ethnic hair care companies, continue to use mineral oil because, simply? It works. Its also very cost effective. Many need something that works while not breaking the bank, I'm one of them. I have used products with all natural oils and the like, however, I've been disappointed more often than not.

For instance, I know I can get my tub of Softee cholesterol treatment (which contains mineral oil) for one dollar...... and it works.

Natural of course is wonderful, but the rest of us who are not "all natural" are not somehow dumbed down.

[Fractalsofhair]

Mineral oil is along the same line as cones are, in terms of helping our hair. It's certainly probably highly diluted coconut oil, since mineral oil is very cheap. I like petroleum jelly when I get a cut to help protect it, but I do not like cones on my hair, and mineral oil due to not penetrating the hair shaft, seems to wreak my hair(I have used baby oil on my face.). It's not as bad as cones were though!

[nowxisxforever]

Mineral oil is along the same line as cones are, in terms of helping our hair. It's certainly probably highly diluted coconut oil, since mineral oil is very cheap. I like petroleum jelly when I get a cut to help protect it, but I do not like cones on my hair, and mineral oil due to not penetrating the hair shaft, seems to wreak my hair(I have used baby oil on my face.). It's not as bad as cones were though!

I don't have luck with mineral oil either... the stuff just sits on my skin/hair and doesn't absorb like plant oils do. So, I won't touch mineral oil or petroleum anything.

[ktani]

Thanks Ktani, there have been many products that i've liked and tossed or haven't tried because of mineral oil. :/ Also many lotions that i've wanted to try.

You are most welcome!

[ktani]

Ktani.... I think I love you.... marry me? ROFL

I have been saying this for eons, and was getting a little tired of being told I am "dumb" for using "evil" mineral oil. For many like me, mineral oil is a godsend, and often the only thing that works without some kind of reaction.

Companies, such as ethnic hair care companies, continue to use mineral oil because, simply? It works. Its also very cost effective. Many need something that works while not breaking the bank, I'm one of them. I have used products with all natural oils and the like, however, I've been disappointed more often than not.

For instance, I know I can get my tub of Softee cholesterol treatment (which contains mineral oil) for one dollar...... and it works.

Natural of course is wonderful, but the rest of us who are not "all natural" are not somehow dumbed down.

I am "off the market" (in a relationship) but thank you anyway, (I knew you were joking, lol).

It is exactly about what works, what is safe and what one prefers. Many plant oils are preferred by some and not others.

And mineral oil is natural. Many plant oils must be refined to some degree before they are usable or marketable. Some plant oils are bleached. That does not necessarily mean that the oils (depending on the degree and kind of processing) lose any or all of their benefits but it depends on what they are being used for.

A number of people here use cones and love them. No one should be made to feel guilty or "dumbed down" because they make different choices than what is currently most popular or marketed to be "safer".

Most conventional products are safe. It is about being selective and informed.

[ktani]

2009
From a cosmetic chemist and a dermatologist on cosmetic ingredients
"Many" is for "Mineral Oil": "Mineral oil has received a very bad rap. It was vilified in the 1950s when the mineral oil was industrial-grade and extremely pore-clogging," Graf says. "Today, cosmetic-grade mineral oil is quite elegant and non-irritating as well as non-clogging." Adds Hammer, "It is a very good moisturizer because it forms an occlusive covering over the skin." (http://astrology.yahoo.com/channel/beauty/how-harmful-are-the-chemicals-in-beauty-products-467584/)

And this
"There are a lot of natural ingredients but they are no more effective than the so-called synthetic ingredients. In fact, because natural ingredients have a larger range of limitations, synthetic ingredients are often safer and more reliable for the skin. As Dr. Blumberg from Tufts University has pointed out most eloquently "Just because they are in nature doesn't mean it's good for the skin." While plants sound great, pure and natural and all that, and while sesame oil and licorice extract sound far better than capric/caprylic triglyceride and glycrrhetinic acid, they aren't better or worse. Each has its pros and cons and it would be a delusion to assume otherwise.
Many ingredients such as mineral oil get a bad rap because they are derived from coal tar which sounds unnatural, but is actually as natural as any plant. Mineral oil is actually one of the better, least irritating, least problem-causing ingredients for the skin. Remember the question isn't whether something sounds good or appears to be good ...but whether it is genuinely good." (http://www.elicinaeurope.com/mineraloil.html)

[ChloeDharma]

Maybe i should clarify, i avoid mineral oil because when i have used it my hair feels like a cheap plastic wig. I also prefer an oil that i know penetrates when using an oil for the properties not just protection.
If my hair liked mineral oil then i'd happily use it on my length, especially in the winter when my hair needs extra protection. In fact i often wish my hair was happy with mineral oil as then i could use the jasmine fragranced oil that hesh makes.

My reason for starting this thread wasn't to start yet another debate on whether we should use mineral oil or not, but simply to make those people who choose to avoid mineral oil aware that a product with a name normally thought of as mineral oil free now contains it.
Personally i had no concerns over the safety of mineral oil, and the only concern i really have when people use it on their hair is that it might cause build up as i was under the impression that it can be harder to remove. If this isn't a problem for someone then that's great. I also point out that if you want an oil to be carrying properties into the scalp/skin then mineral oil isn't a good choice as it only sits on the surface. When i scalp oil i'm looking for an oil with the ability to absorb which is the other reason i choose ones with no mineral oil. That said, my father has found himtaj navratna oil (which contains mineral oil) excellent on his acheing muscles so i wouldn't discount it entirely.

[HotRag]

Maybe off topic then, but can mineral oil be washed out with IHW or SLS free schampoo (with decyl glucose)?

I've heard CO won't wash it out, and also that SLS free won't.

[ktani]

Years ago, I used a Redken product with mineral oil as the main oil in it and it washed out fine with an sles or ales shampoo.

It depends on how much mineral oil or any oil is in a product and how often and how much they are used, as to how easily they can be washed out. I have read here on the boards, that various plant oils including coconut oil and evoo can be difficult to wash out of the hair and that they can build-up.

There is a caution in one article I looked at.
"In a moisturizer, mineral oil appears to have high moisturizing ability combined with low irritation rates and a low price tag. However, care needs to be taken not to use a mineral oil-based moisturizer in conjunction with any products containing comedogenic (pore-clogging) ingredients, as the mineral oil would tend to trap the pore-clogging ingredients into the skin. For this reason, mineral oil should also not be used in leave-on treatments containing comedogenic (pore-clogging) ingredients. However, as long as care is taken to exclude comedogenic (pore-clogging) ingredients from the skin care regime, based on the science, mineral oil makes an inexpensive moisturizer that will hydrate your skin." (http://futurederm.wordpress.com/2007/12/21/is-mineral-oil-really-bad-for-your-skin/)

How much water can get through oils on the hair.
"In this paper sorption and desorption of water vapor on hair fibers treated with various oils is investigated ...... Results show lower "equilibrium" sorption of moisture for various oil-treated samples compared to the untreated sample. Coconut oil-treated hair had a higher regain than mineral oil-treated hair. Although treating the hair samples with oil reduced moisture pickup, a considerable amount of moisture vapor was still able to penetrate into hair fibers." (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=17520153&ordinalpos=5&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP )

All I am saying is that whether the Dabur oil has mineral oil in it or not, I do not believe that it is a cause of concern, as to how well the oil may work, but more a matter of preference. It would depend on how much mineral oil they are using, IMO, to make the mineral oil version less effective. It is not in their best interets in terms of profit (if the oil does not sell well, they make less money), to do that.

The first link with mineral oil in it also contains a cone. Ah well, that is a whole other topic.
"Ingredients: Paraffinum Liquidum, Canola Oil, Palm Oil, Olea Eurpoaea (Olive) Oil, Lawsonia Inermis (Henna) Extract, Phenyl Trimethicone, Cocos Nucifera (Coconut) Oil, Parfum, Ricinus Communis Seed Oil, Avobenzone, Acetate, Citrus Limonum (Lemon) Oil, Tert Butyl Hydro Quinone , Rosemarinus Officinalis (Rosemary )Oil, Vitamin E." (http://www.spicesofindia.co.uk/acatalog/Dabur-Vatika-Coconut-Enriched-Hair-Oil.html)

phenyl trimethicone (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_phenyl_trimethicone)

[danacc]

The 2 Dabur Vatika products are totally different formulations with extremely similar names. One does not replace the other. They are both being sold.

For me, it is not about whether mineral oil is better or worse than coconut oil. It is all about what works for your hair. But if what has been working is the Vatika Enriched Coconut Hair Oil, then your hair will probably react quite differently to Vatika Coconut Enriched Hair Oil.


Vatika Enriched Coconut Hair Oil
Ingredients:
Coconut Oil, Neem, Brahmi, Fruit extracts of Amla, Bahera and Harar, Kapur Kachri, Henna, Milk, Rosemary Oil, Lemon Oil, TBHQ, Fragrance

Vatika Coconut Enriched Hair Oil
Ingredients: Paraffinum Liquidum, Canola Oil, Palm Oil, Olea Eurpoaea (Olive) Oil, Lawsonia Inermis (Henna) Extract, Phenyl Trimethicone, Cocos Nucifera (Coconut) Oil, Parfum, Ricinus Communis Seed Oil, Avobenzone, Acetate, Citrus Limonum (Lemon) Oil, Tert Butyl Hydro Quinone , Rosemarinus Officinalis (Rosemary )Oil, Vitamin E


I didn't really take the first post as a coconut oil versus mineral oil statement. I took it as a much-appreciated warning that Dabur makes 2 completely different products with very similar names. It just happens that one of the main differences is one is mostly mineral oil and the other is mostly coconut oil. Some folks may want the one with more mineral oil, others the one with more coconut oil. Either way the product names are confusing.

[ktani]

ChloeDharma

Sorry for taking the thread off topic. I was responding to the negative mineral oil posts and then to the posts that were in response to my posts.

I do understand what you were trying to say in regard to the confusion re Dabur's ingredients lists.

It appears that the oil has been changed. There are no soya extracts listed in either of the other 2 lists and no milk mentioned in this list.

"Vatika Enriched Cocnut Hair Oil
provides natural nourishment to your hair,
giving it body and radiance while taking
care of the critical balance of nutrients.
The new improved natural formulation of
Vatika Hair Oil -- a pure coconut oil enriched
with Lemon, Amla, Henna, Soya Extracts & six
other trusted herbs ...."
http://www.dabur.com/EN/products/personal_care/Hair_Care/Vatika/HairOil/

To add to the confusion, they list the formula with milk, under exports. (http://www.dabur.com/en/exports/Hair_Care/products/profile.asp?productName=inc_VatikaHairOil)

[ChloeDharma]

ChloeDharma

Sorry for taking the thread off topic. I was responding to the negative mineral oil posts and then to the posts that were in response to my posts.

I do understand what you were trying to say in regard to the confusion re Dabur's ingredients lists.

It appears that the oil has been changed. There are no soya extracts listed in either of the other 2 lists and no milk mentioned in this list.

"Vatika Enriched Cocnut Hair Oil
provides natural nourishment to your hair,
giving it body and radiance while taking
care of the critical balance of nutrients.
The new improved natural formulation of
Vatika Hair Oil -- a pure coconut oil enriched
with Lemon, Amla, Henna, Soya Extracts & six
other trusted herbs ...."
http://www.dabur.com/EN/products/personal_care/Hair_Care/Vatika/HairOil/

To add to the confusion, they list the formula with milk, under exports. (http://www.dabur.com/en/exports/Hair_Care/products/profile.asp?productName=inc_VatikaHairOil)

That's ok Ktani, like the last poster pointed out i was mainly trying to draw attention to the possibility of getting the oil you don't want, especially people who have not used vatika oil before or are new to hair/scalp oiling.
The confusion over the ingredients of enriched coconut oil i think are because they reformulated it. The new recipe contains soya, but i thought from reading the new ingredients list before that the milk content had been halved not totally removed.
The new recipe comes in a very different looking bottle too, but i still am using the old one so can't say what the "improved" recipe is like.

[Heidi_234]

Mineral oil is not the evil, but probably should be avoided by people who don't use shampoo at all (like me). Mineral oil does not wash out, it coats the hair and eventually dries it out. Also, I would try to avoid it, because it is there in the products as a cheap filler, not something beneficial for hair. :shrug:

[ktani]

Mineral oil has preservative qualities and this is most interesting.

"1. 7. Cleaning
Mineral oil can be used to clean heavier oil stains by diluting and liquefying the other oils, rendering the oils more accessible to detergents. Likewise, it can be employed to "de-gum," to remove adhesive residue left by price tags or adhesive tape. It can be used as a cleaner and solvent for inks in fine art printmaking as well as in oil painting, though turpentine is more often used." (http://wapedia.mobi/en/Mineral_oil)

[lora410]

I just checked the ingredients on mine and it does not contain mineral oil. I have the one with the green bottle though.

[lora410]

Kirin;664010For instance, I know I can get my tub of Softee cholesterol treatment (which contains mineral oil) for one dollar...... and it works.



Might I add LOVE cholesterol and my hair is always silky soft afterward.