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Laika9
June 30th, 2009, 02:20 PM
Hi everyone...my hair has just been cut absolutely beautifully, it looks more lovely than it has for years and an adorable gay man cut it for me...

Does anyone else find that male hairdressers ( who are usually gay anyway aren't they ) just cut your hair the nicest...? My mum always said that to me...

Whether it is because they have more of an eye for true beauty ( or not to mention, they are often beautiful themselves, this one was ) or because women are sometimes competitive around eachother, I really don't know...

Or maybe I'm being really sexist here and I'm about to get an online slaughtering from all the female hairdressers on this site...

Just curious I guess but hope I don't spark a massive debate...

He just seemed to care so much about making my hair look the best...he even advised me not to go shorter which I was going to and now I'm so grateful...

~ Laika9 ~

Nevermore
June 30th, 2009, 02:23 PM
Um. Wow. I know you meant this in the best possible way, but there's no correlation between cutting hair and being gay. A good stylist is a good stylist, it's not about their gender, age or orientation.

Laika9
June 30th, 2009, 02:35 PM
Okay...I know that but maybe I'm just putting him on a pedestal because he cut my hair so nicely...I have met loads of lovely female stylists as well...these weird ideas come into my head sometimes...

And I did mean it in the best possible way! I'm not some creepy troll out to cause a row truly...! I just mean, gay men sometimes truly look up to feminine beauty, I'm not explaining myself well here...and er maybe I'm stereotyping some more...

Please - don't tar me with the Jim Davidson brush! ~ Laika9 ~

Tap Dancer
June 30th, 2009, 03:04 PM
My female hairdresser (who is married and has a son) does a great job on my hair and my mother's hair. Gender and sexual orientation has nothing to do with anything.

neon-dream
June 30th, 2009, 03:07 PM
I can see what you're saying, but I do feel that a good hair dresser is a good hair dresser.
I've only seen one male hair dresser in my life, who was gay and he was amazing with my hair, but so have many other hair dressers that I have seen :)!

cakedcake
June 30th, 2009, 03:15 PM
I just mean, gay men sometimes truly look up to feminine beauty, I'm not explaining myself well here...and er maybe I'm stereotyping some more...

Please - don't tar me with the Jim Davidson brush! ~ Laika9 ~

I think that is a stereotype. It doesn't mean you won't find examples of this, but there's no way to apply that to every gay man. Human beings are totally variable, and I've known plenty of gay men who come nowhere near fitting the stereotype. (Though, my own personal bias is that they seem more creative than other people, or something like that. It somehow creeps into my mind whenever I meet them.)

Anyway, it certainly doesn't make you a terrible person to have wondered about this. It's very human to try to reduce things just in order to process the world, but I would stop and identify it as what it is- a reductionist view. And you seem willing to do that, so that's good.

I actually had a straight male hairdresser before I moved (wife and kids, complete sweetheartface), and he was very respectful of my wishes. I can only imagine that he gets a little annoyed whenever he tells someone his profession, and it's assumed that he's gay.

But in general, I like stylists who listen to me and speak to me with respect. I don't think competition plays into this, nor gender/orientation. For me, it just feels like salon environments are too often lacking in this basic professionalism where stylists relinquish enough control to the, uh, paying customer.

brok3nwings
June 30th, 2009, 04:32 PM
Im glad you found someone that plays with your hair just the way you wanted! I dont believe you could apply that as a rule but i do believe many gay man have more sensibility to woman beauty and they tend to be more aware of things than most people. But again ,that isnt a rule i think it is just a tendency that probably has something to do with what they find appealing. I happen to be "noticed" (new hair, new cloths) more often from my gay friends than anyone else, does this have anything to do with anything? I honestly dont know and dont care!

Delila
June 30th, 2009, 04:39 PM
The last male hairdresser that cut my hair was so busy being an artiste that he paid me absolutely no attention whatsoever. Literally. He finished his work, and flourished away without ever having said a word to me and left his many assistants to deal with things like eye contact, conversation and payment. Ugh.

He made a hairstyle that happened to involve my hair, and in some ways it was well done, but it really didn't suit my bone structure at all. I couldn't quite decide why I was so dissatisfied with the style, until I went back to a woman stylist I really trust some weeks later, and she pointed out that the angles and the flow of the style were just a bit off balance, so the style just looked off.

Bene
June 30th, 2009, 04:47 PM
the only male stylist i went to argued with me when i said "no, i don't want layers, just even up the bottom."


he charged me for cutting and drying "long" hair even though i was at APL. i didn't tip since he he didn't straighten my hair, just gave me a half-assed blowdry and sent me out the salon all frizzy.

Cherry_Sprinkle
June 30th, 2009, 04:51 PM
:shrug: I have seen a few stylists in my life and the best one I have found is a woman who is married and has 2 beautiful daughters. She always gives me good advice, she never cuts me too short, and when coloring she advises me how to get the maximum amount of color with the least damage to my hair and even tells me what she would recommend I use at home. I've found her to be wonderful... I tend to agree.. a good stylist is a good stylist.. be it male, female, gay or straight.. I don't see how that bares any resemblance on their scissors.

Alun
June 30th, 2009, 07:06 PM
This is such a stereotype that I even heard of one hairdresser who acted effeminate in front of his (women) customers but was actually married with kids. Apparently he seemed to think it would be good for business if he pretended to be gay!

Then, on the flip side, I'm sure there are many heterosexual male hairdressers who would be highly offended by the suggestion that all of them are gay.

NamedForTheMoon
June 30th, 2009, 07:10 PM
The last BEST haircut I got was from a gay male stylist. Not to help along the stereotype, of course. Just sayin'. :D

Flynn
June 30th, 2009, 07:24 PM
Camp =/= Gay
Gay =/= Camp

Take care!

RancheroTheBee
June 30th, 2009, 08:05 PM
Camp =/= Gay
Gay =/= Camp

Take care!

Be my best friend forever.

Anyway, this stereotype falls along the same lines as the gay best friend who will help you shop. My best friend in school was male and gay, and you should have seen the martyred expression on his face whenever an outing veered into anything that resembled shopping.

The beauty industry seems to have this standard where men who enter it must either be gay, or if not, are suspected to be gay. Or that it matters.

Copasetic
June 30th, 2009, 08:25 PM
The cosmetology teacher at my high school, who was also the best hair dresser I have ever had, was a straight married man with two kids.

My best friend is a gay man who dresses in skate shoes, Nine Inch Nails Shirts, and thinks shopping is torture. :shrug:

I haven't personally noticed any patterns with respect to who makes the best hair dressers.

Flynn
June 30th, 2009, 08:45 PM
Be my best friend forever.

Anyway, this stereotype falls along the same lines as the gay best friend who will help you shop. My best friend in school was male and gay, and you should have seen the martyred expression on his face whenever an outing veered into anything that resembled shopping.

The beauty industry seems to have this standard where men who enter it must either be gay, or if not, are suspected to be gay. Or that it matters.

I've now been going out with the guy who in high school was apparently "everyone's gay friend who actually turned out not to be gay, but found it so funny that he never bothered to tell anyone" for two years. He's pretty, he's a bit of a dandy, he's happy to go shopping, and he's quite straight.

I know camp (one of them is very camp!) married men who are absolutely adore their wives, and un-camp "straight-seeming" men who realised somewhen in their 40s -- both of them had teenage kids -- that they were very much homosexual. I also know some very camp gay guys, and one very camp guy whose other behaviours (like his attitude toward girls) strongly suggest that he's gay, (or possibly asexual), but he hasn't admitted it yet. It really doesn't prove anything at all.

Laika9
July 1st, 2009, 12:26 AM
LOL My brother is gay so I certainly didn't mean to cause any offence and I hope that all you lovely folks know it...

Just a dumbish sounding thing that came out of my mouth...

I'm so delighted with the way he cut it though...not only that, that he actually argued with me about having it done shorter!

But I've known plenty of wonderful female stylists as well and futhermore I have known plenty of male stylists who were NOT gay for the record...

Laika9

manderly
July 1st, 2009, 01:08 AM
The worst haircut I ever got was from a gay male hairdresser. Brought him a photo of what I wanted, he immediately said "Oh no, you don't want that. I'll do something similar but much prettier!" End result = me looking like a french poodle and having it re-cut the following day by another stylist. :rolleyes:

A good family friend of ours is a straight male hairdresser with a large family and he also teaches karate. Mom and I think he's one of the coolest "dudes" we know. But I don't like how he cut my hair ;)

Jenny.Wren
July 1st, 2009, 01:41 AM
I have 3 brothers. My eldest brother used to be a hairdresser - now in the building trade and he is straight, married etc etc.

My youngest brother is a hairdresser and he's gay (and gorgeous) :D

I've always found men do a better job on my hair (straight or gay) than women but that's just my personal feeling.

LutraLutra
July 1st, 2009, 02:06 AM
My current hairdresser gives me the best cuts I've ever had. He's straight and married. :shrug: I don't see a conection. But I'm glad you like your hairdresser.

Sashay
July 1st, 2009, 02:10 AM
Stereotypes usually come into existence for a reason. Typically, society notices a pattern that happens more frequently with certain types than others. It doesn't mean that everyone fits the stereotype, or that someone is flawed for not fitting a stereotype.

That being said. I think that some of the more fem gay guys may often pay more attention to grooming than many women. So there is a good chance that they will be skilled at it.

While being gay does not mean that you are automatically a good hairdresser, I do think it plays its part for some men. Especially those who use extreme grooming as a way to identify themselves as gay.

Ashley
July 1st, 2009, 03:35 AM
I think it's hard to draw a line based on sexual orientation indeed, BUT I do think that often (of course, again, not everyone) the more womanly gay men who are interested in beauty, hair & make-up have more of a feel for these things. I think it's also safe to say that a larger percentage of male stylists is gay which makes it easier to see a connection between good stylist and gay men.

jojo
July 1st, 2009, 06:50 AM
I have a gay brother and a gay brother-in-law and fail to see the correlation between ones sexuality and skill in cuting hair to be honest. Its a bit like saying females make the best nurses!

glad you had a great cut though, just out of interest did the hairdresser state he was gay or was it just an educated guess?

meph
July 1st, 2009, 07:04 AM
I see where this stereotype is coming from. A lot of (hair)stylist that I see on t.v. are gay and / or very feminine, so it's easy to say that all male hairdressers are gay. Of course, not all men are like this.
I personally only know one male hairdresser and I think he's straight, although I'm not sure. Not that it matters anyways. I've never been cut by him (I think he only cuts males..), and the female ones that have cut my hair were always pretty good with listening to what I wanted.

I don't really know what the point is that I'm making here.. :confused:

(I feel like my post sounds a bit rude but I don't know how to word it differently, so if I've offended someone, I'm sorry.)

jojo
July 1st, 2009, 10:17 AM
No you havent offended me, its hard to word a reply in case I come across as being critical. Its your opinion.

Islandgrrl
July 1st, 2009, 10:34 AM
I don't buy the stereotype.

I'm glad the the OP got a fab haircut, but I don't see how the stylist's gender or orientation comes into play at all here. A skilled stylist cut her hair.

Stereotypes do come about for a reason, but I think one as to look deeper into how the stereotype evolved. I don't believe that gay men are more predisposed to being hair stylists than anyone else. What I do think is that somehow along the way, a man could be openly gay as a hairdresser and it was seen as acceptable. Why? I'm guessing here (and feel free to disagree with me, please!), but probably because hairdressing is a non-threatening profession to the male population in general and is/was a female dominated profession. Being an openly gay male cop/firefighter/construction dude....fill in your blank, was/is not as easily accepted and so not as many gay men were/are openly so in these types of male dominated professions.

So much for my 2 cents. :)

misspriss
July 1st, 2009, 11:19 AM
I will just say my best haircut I got came from a gay male stylist. I think the stereotype does exist, although it is not correct.

I also think BECAUSE of the stereotype gay stylists may receive more attention when training, more customers, and more recommendations from their customers, therefore leading to them being better stylists from experience.

I have also gotten a great haircut from an older woman, straight, who had a COMPLETELY different hairtype than mine. However she also gave me a bad haircut...although I did ask for it...

Caldonia Sun
July 1st, 2009, 11:28 AM
I've always thought men (gay or not, I have no idea) cut my hair best. Not technically necessarily, but as a man seeing a woman and bringing out her beauty.

jessie58
July 1st, 2009, 11:37 AM
Coincidentally, all my haircuts that I ever had done by men, gay or straight were the worst cuts of my life.

GypsyGoddess
July 1st, 2009, 11:52 AM
I was watching a show with Richard Dawkins today on Youtube and while he was talking about religion, I believe the point is applicable here.

The idea is, the human (and animal) brains are designed to find patterns. It helps us find food, choose mates, avoid danger, etc. But the process of finding patterns can go wrong. We can miss patterns that are obviously there, and we can make up patterns that don't exist.

To me, that is where stereotypes come from. It's our innate desire to find patterns so we can make sense of the world around us. Our brains simply like to put people and experiences into forms we can understand and sequence.

So if most male hairdressers you knew were gay, your mind creates a pattern where all of them are gay. It's a stereotype and it's inaccurate, but it's your mind trying to make sense of information and form a pattern.

I'm sorry if I'm completely off topic, it's that time of month and my mind is wandering. Somehow this made sense to me when I typed it.

Sashay
July 1st, 2009, 01:16 PM
I don't see how we go from "most" and "many" to "all"

no stereotype that I know of is 100% true, but there can still be statistical data that indicates say...that women who wear a mullet are likely to be lesbians. But that doesn't mean that all women who wear mullets are lesbians, or that all lesbians wear mullets. Unfortunately, many people take stereotypes as a rule, and assume all sorts of silly things.

It's not cause and effect :p being gay does not equal good hairdresser, but there can still be a correlation.

If I wanted makeup advice, I wouldn't ask the tom-boys, I would ask the popular girls. The ones that spend hours perfecting their routine.

and don't forget that there are multiple categories of gay stereotypes; bear, closet, fruity.

In the offensive word of Peter Griffin.
"Oh my god, here they come floating around making noise gay guys", "fix up your house gay guys", "Classy, maybe they are, maybe they're not gay guys", and many others I'm sure.

And if you don't believe it, you've never worked at a gym :rolleyes:

InTheCity
July 1st, 2009, 06:36 PM
Nope, it's all in the individual. The worst haircut I ever had was from a soft male. I've even chopped my hair to pixie without getting upset but this guy's cut upset me. I practically had a bowl cut on top of the inner layer being neck length. Imagine that, it was worse than a mullet.

It was the first and only time in my life my hair made me cry.

GlassEyes
July 1st, 2009, 06:44 PM
Nope, it's all in the individual. The worst haircut I ever had was from a soft male.
*twitch* Soft male?

I'm staying out of this.

dulce-de-leche
July 1st, 2009, 06:51 PM
I've had my hair cut by all types of people gay,straight,men,women.I don't think it's their sexuality that makes them good or bad because I've had good and bad from each.

angelthadiva
July 1st, 2009, 07:35 PM
I hate that society insists on using absolutes, and put people into a box.

If a man chooses certain professions he *must* be gay. :nono: If a man is skilled at arranging flowers, or if they are into poetry or if they style hair they *must* be gay. Who says? The reverse is true as well...If a woman is skilled under the hood of a car, she must be a lesbian--Who says? I think such things are stupid!

With that being said, I've had (in my life) 4 male hair dressers, 2 were married w/families and the other 2 were in relationships--All hetero, btw.

This is a topic we've discussed (in the past) and once people meet them assumptions are made based on their chosen, skilled profession--And all of those assumptions were wrong. How horrible it is to have to defend one's sexuality based on a chosen profession.

Ignorance is what perpetuates this and other stereotypes, and that could be said about ANY AND ALL of them. :flower:

bugeyedmonster2
July 1st, 2009, 10:14 PM
or because women are sometimes competitive around eachother, I really don't know...

Well, I haven't read every response here, but sometimes I think we women compete against each other when we shouldn't.

I did have a co-worker whose daughter was very 'yellow'. Meaning a light skinned Afro-american/black, whatever you want to say. The girl had very fine curly hair that was not very kinky.

Her mother complained that she couldn't take the girl to any salons owned/run by black women, as they would always mess up the poor child's hair. Her poor girl had this incident where the stylist put that straightening stuff on it, and the kid's hair all fell off. She complained that she would tell the stylists not to put that straightening stuff on, as the child's hair couldn't take it, and the women would do so anyway.

Mom finally found a salon where they would listen to her, and not mess up her girl's hair. And yes, it was a gay guy doing the girl's hair.

The reason I'm wondering if there was jealousy involved; my sister told me of someone else (white woman who adopted a light skinned girl) and this woman was apparently told, flat out, by one black woman stylist that some black women would be envious of her daughter's 'good' hair. The salon where this mom finally ended going had women, but they were good with the girl's hair, and usually braided or twisted it after cutting. (This after many different bad salon trips.)

Which made me wonder about my co-worker. Where the women subconsciously messing up the girl's hair because they wished they had 'good' hair? At least I hope it was subconscious.


I have had two female stylist in the past (both retired now, sigh) who were good at doing my hair, even when it was long, and actually listened to me. And they knew how to handle long hair. I don't ever remember them using those combs with the close together teeth on my hair.

I haven't run into any men stylists. But the women I didn't like usually trimmed too much (and then wanted me back in six weeks) or tried to use those little rat tailed combs (that kinda' look like lice combs) with the small teeth to comb my hair. And then they'd just yank it through instead of working out the tangles. Ergh.

Anyway... my :twocents:

(^_^)/
BEM

Flynn
July 1st, 2009, 11:08 PM
I think that's less a "subconscious messing up" than a "I'm the hairdresser, and I know best".

I've encountered this several times with people from several professions -- including nurses. "Uh, I wouldn't try to cannulate that vein; it has a huge kink in it -- see, right there. You won't have any luck." So she tried anyway, and... look, I won't go into details, but it's about the absolute most horrible thing that can happen when you're sticking a needle in a vein. Initially didn't realise what she'd done, even though I told her she'd done something nasty in there, tried to "save" it, and when whe finally realised and gave up, I ended up with a blue, swollen hand that went up like a baloon from fingers to forearm, for a week because she'd done so much damage, and I had bled so much under the skin. And that is someone who really should know better than that. Whenever someone eyes off that vein, I tell them that story. Didn't stop one once; again, she thought she knew better and insisted on giving it a try. Now I make a huge scene if they get pushy about trying it...

Sorry, long story, but my point is, I don't think it's an unconscious jealousy or sabotage thing, I think it's more a thinking they know better than the unqualified person they are dealing with. Particularly African women working in a salon that mostly caters to African women would not have much experience with different hair.

You frequently hear similar stories of people (I particularly hear about Arabs and Persians) going to Asian salons here, and because their hair is finer the standard Asian-hair chemical straightening often goes very wrong and dissolves or destroys their hair.

redcelticcurls
July 1st, 2009, 11:19 PM
My hair guy, who is a whiz at cutting curly hair, the guy who keeps me in the realm of the redhead, and the person who suggested that I grow my hair long, is very openly gay. I had to chuckle at the OP (in a fun way) because it was true in my case.

Obviously it isn't true for everyone, but I did have to chuckle because it was true for me.

Krystyle
July 1st, 2009, 11:29 PM
I understand what you're saying and I don't think you're stereotyping or anything. You're just really stoked about your hair cut and it happened to be done by a gay guy. By the way, did he tell you he is gay? Sometimes, you just get a metro kind of guy that really has a good eye for what they're doing no matter what it is. I used to go to a guy for my eyebrows and oh how amazing my brows were. A friend of mine suggested him to me. She's been going to him for over ten years. My time with him had to end after only a few short months. He wasn't gay and er, he said some inappropriate things.

Ponytale
July 3rd, 2009, 08:46 PM
I have to say, my best stylist was a gay man. He did my husband's hair too and he [my husband] would walk out of the salon looking like a sexy villain in a movie. Man, I miss that stylist...

When I moved I tried to replace him and really ticked off a female shop owner when I asked for a male stylist.

Elettaria
July 4th, 2009, 04:43 AM
I realise that it's normal to use stereotypes when thinking, but please think your way through a bit further before committing them to print, as stereotypes about sexuality are mostly offensive. How would you feel if a man was gushing on about how wonderfully clever women are at doing the cleaning? Also remember that around 10% of the population is queer, and that includes this forum, and incidentally includes me, my boyfriend, my best friend, some of my cousins, quite a few of my uni tutors, and about half of my other friends.

Just as many professions have a gender imbalance, certain professions are more queer-friendly and/or have a reputation for attracting LGBT folks. Performing arts is a big example. It often means that they have a higher proportion of LGBT people, but it's very unlikely to mean that they're all queer. For instance, I once met a gay male ballet dancer at a party. The stereotype is that male ballet dancers are all gay. The reality, according to this guy, was that about a quarter were gay and the rest were quite scrumptious but, alas, married with children (from his point of view!). 25% is still substantially higher than average. It's probably similar in hairdressing: unless the stereotype is completely unfounded, there's going to be a greater proportion of queer men, but it's probably still a minority of the men who work in hairdressing.

Tangles
July 4th, 2009, 10:46 AM
The best haircut I ever got was done by a gay male hairdresser, but I also got a pretty bad one by a different gay male hairdresser. Like wow, they cut hair differently!

GlassEyes
July 4th, 2009, 01:45 PM
The best haircut I ever got was done by a gay male hairdresser, but I also got a pretty bad one by a different gay male hairdresser. Like wow, they cut hair differently!
That's really surprising, considering all gays are part of a borg machine and we all think exactly alike. :eek: 'Cause everyone knows were not really human beings with different tastes, styles, and yes, skill levels in our professions. He must've been faking for the social benefits! No WONDER he couldn't cut hair!

Sashay
July 4th, 2009, 03:22 PM
Hehehe. Well said Glasseyes.

redcelticcurls
July 4th, 2009, 04:31 PM
That's really surprising, considering all gays are part of a borg machine and we all think exactly alike. :eek: 'Cause everyone knows were not really human beings with different tastes, styles, and yes, skill levels in our professions. He must've been faking for the social benefits! No WONDER he couldn't cut hair!

That was awesome!