Some advice on my routine?

[Cherry_Sprinkle]

Here's the problem I am having.. I currently go back and forth between cone and no cone and I clarify using a V05 shampoo... however going cone free this time around I have noticed the curl is nearly coming out and its frizzing like crazy. Oil doesn't seem to be helping it unless I nearly dip my whole head in oil. I am using shampoo bars and one of the cone-free V05's. My hair doesn't feel dry it just feels sort of.. out of control.

I stopped CO'ing because it left my scalp itchy.. so I have been heavy oiling the night before a wash and pretty much CWC. I haven't used the shea butter treatment (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=4586) but those of you who do.. do you think that will help? I know that it isn't the shampoo bars because it feels this way even when I am using regular cone free shampoos.

I miss my curls and I also miss the way my hair feels with cones, but I like the advantage of being cone free... Do you have any advice for me? When I wear my hair down I have been using 'Curls Rock!' leave in and their curl cream set but its loaded with stuff I don't like in my hair all the time and I always have to clarify the second day because it leaves my hair crunchy.. I chemically dye so honey isn't really my friend, but I have tried SMT and it pulled out a good bit of dye and didn't really seem to do much for my hair.

Current Routine:
Wash: CV Shampoo Bars, scalp only length if extra oily, rinse then reapply, follow up with either Suave or VO5 conditioner, leave on for as long as I am in the shower, then rinse, and follow up with a diluted ACV rinse.
After Dry: I air dry and then apply a small amount of coconut oil to my hair, and if I am putting it up I will add some aloe gel.
Weekly: Catnip soaks, QH Cholesterol, and/or SMT. I usually do one or two of these a week. I also S&D my split ends with professional trimming scissors.
Clarifying: I clarify when my hair is feeling off or that I have used a cone product the night before, and I heavy oil the night before, using a VO5 shampoo and then follow up with my usual routine.
Coloring: I have a stylist who tints my roots every 4-8 weeks and does regular 1/2" trims.

Last Cone Free:
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/picture.php?albumid=3347&pictureid=42464

Current:
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/picture.php?albumid=3347&pictureid=42680

:shrug: Any advice?

[teela1978]

I'd try a thicker conditioner. The vo5 and suave ones work for some people after a shampoo, but on me they're really only good for CO. Either something from the health food store or one of the few avaliable at the drug store. Couldn't hurt.

[Cherry_Sprinkle]

I'd try a thicker conditioner.
Do you have any suggestions on which ones I should try?

I think the reason I am so confused is before it liked this routine but this time its really not reacting in a positive way.. could it be the length thats causing the trouble?

[OhioLisa]

To me, it looks like my hair when I try to use conditioner with poo bars. Have you tried the poo bars with just a vinegar rinse? It took me a bit to get used to the different feel of going without conditioner, but now my hair LOVES conditioner-free. I just lather twice and follow with vinegar. Easy. :D

[teela1978]

I'm currently really liking the garnier sleek and shine... but apparently it's just the brand new version that is cone free (palm oil as the 3rd ingredient, it's lovely :cloud9:). Check bottles before you buy, the old one had amodimethicone where the palm oil now is. That's actually how I found it, I was getting coney conditioner and was kinda surprised when my usual extra coney shine went away :P

[florenonite]

I don't know if this will help at all, but some people's hair only really likes oils on damp hair, so maybe you could try putting the coconut oil on right after washing, rather than waiting for it to dry.

[may1em]

Do you have any suggestions on which ones I should try?

I think the reason I am so confused is before it liked this routine but this time its really not reacting in a positive way.. could it be the length thats causing the trouble?

I really like both Kiss My Face Whenever and Aubrey Organics honeysuckle rose for conditioner. You also might want to check out the reviews section.

Also, have you moved or had any changes in your diet recently? Sometimes small differences in water quality and nutrition can make a big difference.

[Lamb]

If you have hard water, that might affect your success with CV bars.
For conditioners, Aubrey Organics and Nature's Gate have been great for me - Suave is good for CO, but doesn't do much of a job on the moisturizing front.

[wackyredtangles]

What do you do with your hair when it dries? I always braid my hair when wet to keep it contained. If it rubs up against anything when wet it frizzes out. I used to sleep with wet hair, then wonder why I got a massive frizz head.

So I would suggest wash, braid, just a regular old english braid is fine, put a little oil towards the very ends, and lightly spray all around with kimberlilys defrizz mist spray. Then, when its dry or almost dry and you want to take it, lightly spray again.

Frizzy hair is a constant rewetting, then remisting process.

[Cherry_Sprinkle]

To me, it looks like my hair when I try to use conditioner with poo bars. Have you tried the poo bars with just a vinegar rinse? It took me a bit to get used to the different feel of going without conditioner, but now my hair LOVES conditioner-free. I just lather twice and follow with vinegar. Easy.

If I don't use conditioner its impossible to get my pick/comb through it later and it falls in a tangled mess and feels dry :( I can't go conditioner free, I tried WO for awhile and it was more or less the same thing.


I don't know if this will help at all, but some people's hair only really likes oils on damp hair, so maybe you could try putting the coconut oil on right after washing, rather than waiting for it to dry.

The only oil I have found my hair to tolerate on damp hair this far is EVOO and I think its just a bit heavy for every day styling. If my hair is feeling dry I will mix it with aloe and apply like a mouse or gel but even that isn't helping these days.


What do you do with your hair when it dries? I always braid my hair when wet to keep it contained. If it rubs up against anything when wet it frizzes out. I used to sleep with wet hair, then wonder why I got a massive frizz head.

So I would suggest wash, braid, just a regular old english braid is fine, put a little oil towards the very ends, and lightly spray all around with kimberlilys defrizz mist spray. Then, when its dry or almost dry and you want to take it, lightly spray again.

Frizzy hair is a constant rewetting, then remisting process.

I don't generally do anything with my hair until its dry, if its too tangled I will use a wide tooth comb. If I am going to wear my hair up for a couple of days I will damp bun and thats usually ok but I have tons of fly aways when I do this unless I apply the gel after. Braiding is an idea but when I used to braid before bed it used to still be wet in the AM and the bands I used to secure them gave me split ends :( But I will look into maybe putting the ends in foam curlers or something to see if that helps, its an idea because that is more or less what I would do before bed, mist with water, braid, and oil.


If you have hard water, that might affect your success with CV bars.
For conditioners, Aubrey Organics and Nature's Gate have been great for me - Suave is good for CO, but doesn't do much of a job on the moisturizing front.

We don't have hard water :) I think the difference is in the cone/no-cone because without cones I have the frizz no-curl problem currently, but with cones I have almost no friz (but nearly no body) and tons of curls.. but my hair liked this routine before so I am confused.


Also, have you moved or had any changes in your diet recently? Sometimes small differences in water quality and nutrition can make a big difference.

No nothing at all :shrug: Well I have moved but this problem is recent, and we've been here a year already and the problem has only been for the last few months. Shampoo bars are the only 'new' thing but the problem was before they arrived. They have helped the feel and shine but not corrected the 'frizz'

[Cherry_Sprinkle]

I probably should add that I am trying to grow out layers as well and I haven't had a trim in a while.. its been a couple months but my ends don't look bad, and I don't have any breakage.

[MunchkinBubble]

Minus the coloring we have the exact same routine. :)

I'm also having some issues in trying to figure out whats making my hair so dry/damaged.

I think I'm going to try the no conditioner approach and just use the rinses, but like you, I can't get a comb even an inch through my hair without conditioner, so I think I'm going to not even touch it until its dry then try detangling (and hope it doesn't dry all funky.)

Good luck!

[Cinnamon Hair]

I would clarify less and deep condition more. If you don't like SMT then use something else. A good cone free conditioner is Biolage Conditioning Balm. It is quite thick so you could use that as your deep conditioning treatment. Glob it on from ears down and wear heat cap or warm towel for 30 mins. then rinse. You may find that you need a heavier daily conditioner too.. .if that's the case then just use Biolage all the time.

Oh, and if Biolage is too expensive there is a knockoff at Sally's Beauty Supply. It's called Bioterra and comes in a white tube with purple writing (not absolutely sure on that, they may have changed the bottle).

[Cherry_Sprinkle]

Thanks so much for your suggestions everyone :) I am going to try and shampoo with CV bars 2 times a week and CO in between, I don't think that will irritate my scalp. I think I will cut out the SMT and try the Shea Butter treatment, and look for a much better deep conditioner. I am also trying a CO day with a very heavy dose of aloe gel mixed with a couple drops EVOO on damp hair and then scrunching... if it looks frizzy or dry when wet I'll use a very small amount of coconut oil and rescrunch the area.. I'll report back :)

[Cherry_Sprinkle]

A good cone free conditioner is Biolage Conditioning Balm. It is quite thick so you could use that as your deep conditioning treatment. Glob it on from ears down and wear heat cap or warm towel for 30 mins. then rinse. You may find that you need a heavier daily conditioner too.. .if that's the case then just use Biolage all the time.

Oh! I didn't know biolage had cone free products! Thank you :D I think I'll start here since our local grocery carries this.

[Cherry_Sprinkle]

in order to sort of.. document my hair routine.. I wore my hair down today..

http://www.septemberpixie.com/lj/hair/IMG_4134.jpg

Today's Routine:
CO w/ Suave Coconut Conditioner
Comb w/ wide tooth comb
Apply a large amount of aloe vera gel & a few drops of EVOO
Scrunch well.

Much less frizz, a lot more curl.. , but I can't CO all the time or I end up with an itchy scalp.. so going to look into a thicker conditioner when I use a poo bar and try to only clarify if I use cones and/or once per month.

[redcelticcurls]

It looks as if you aren't getting much protein.

My canopy can look like yours if it needs a protein hit, and it would also explain a looser curl pattern.

[ReddishRocks]

I don't see any leave-in conditioner or gel in your routine - are you interested in trying that? I know some people try to stay as product-free as possible. :)

I would agree that you might benefit from a more potent conditioner. If you have a Sally's nearby, I know a lot of girls (myself included) like their Generic Value Products Conditioning Balm, which is a clone of Biolage Conditioning Balm.

Has anyone mentioned the weather? Has the dew point gone up a lot in your part of Michigan? Any time the dew point is above about 35*F where I live, I add glycerin (KY Jelly :o) to my routine to combat frizz. Works like a charm!

HTH!

[ReddishRocks]

It looks as if you aren't getting much protein.

My canopy can look like yours if it needs a protein hit, and it would also explain a looser curl pattern.

That Suave Coconut condish has amino acids in it, so maybe that's part of what helped with that latest pic? :confused:

[redcelticcurls]

That Suave Coconut condish has amino acids in it, so maybe that's part of what helped with that latest pic? :confused:

Could be!

I agree with your prior post too about perhaps a more potent conditioner.

And, shoot, sometimes curlies just need some product!

[Cherry_Sprinkle]

The same conditioner was used in all 3 photographs. My hair doesn't react well to protein treatments, they leave my hair tangly and feeling very dry. Doing the standard hair test my piece of hair bounces back into place when stretched and isn't stretched longer than normal. So, I don't believe its a protein issue.

[Cherry_Sprinkle]

I don't see any leave-in conditioner or gel in your routine - are you interested in trying that? I know some people try to stay as product-free as possible. :)

I am using a heavy dose of aloe vera gel and oils.. I don't like hairsprays and such products but if I am using cones for any reason I will use the 'Curl's Rock!' products which is a leave in conditioner and a sculpting gel/cream.. otherwise a heavy dose of aloe vera gel mixed with EVOO gives nearly the same effect without leaving it 'crunchy'. I also use the aloe to smooth flyaways.. I will either use the gel to scrunch with the EVOO if I am wearing my hair down, or I will wait until it dries, add some oil, and then use the gel to smooth and tame my hair for updo's... if that is what you mean by gel? :)

[Cherry_Sprinkle]

And, shoot, sometimes curlies just need some product!

This could be it.. I guess it could simply be due to the length my hair just needs the aloe/oil treatment no matter how I am wearing it.. although I admit I was hoping we'd find out otherwise lol It means an extra 5mins less sleep in the AM! :eyebrows:

[Jenny.Wren]

Could be!

And, shoot, sometimes curlies just need some product!

I agree. I have to condition after each wash and apply product. There is NO way I couldn't just wash and leave. Coconut is nice if applied to my damp hair but it just takes soooo long to dry so not really convenient. I find serum is the best product for my hair. I'm a cone girl I'm afraid :o

[redcelticcurls]

I am using a heavy dose of aloe vera gel and oils.. I don't like hairsprays and such products but if I am using cones for any reason I will use the 'Curl's Rock!' products which is a leave in conditioner and a sculpting gel/cream.. otherwise a heavy dose of aloe vera gel mixed with EVOO gives nearly the same effect without leaving it 'crunchy'. I also use the aloe to smooth flyaways.. I will either use the gel to scrunch with the EVOO if I am wearing my hair down, or I will wait until it dries, add some oil, and then use the gel to smooth and tame my hair for updo's... if that is what you mean by gel? :)

If you're having high humidity, aloe vera gel can cause poof and undefined curls for some. It might not be the case for you, but it's something to look for.