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NickalNack
June 30th, 2009, 11:00 AM
I was browsing through google image search to find pictured for a blog I was posting on Xanga (which was hair-related), and I came across a particular thread in a message board. It's full of people talking badly about older women with long hair. >=/

http://www.city-data.com/forum/hair-care/186507-i-think-women-over-45-real.html

I mean, seriously, why do people think that? I've never been taught to believe super long hair on anyone was ugly. Where did this social bias come from?

RavennaNight
June 30th, 2009, 11:07 AM
I love how he said it started with the hippies in the 60's and 70's. So people didn't have long hair before then? :confused: I don't need to give anyone a history lesson. We all know long hair has been around for thousands upon thousands of years.:rolleyes:

Heavenly Locks
June 30th, 2009, 11:08 AM
The proof is in the poll ;) :) :disco:

Rivanariko
June 30th, 2009, 11:16 AM
My dad always hates when my mom goes to a female hairdresser. For some reason, they all think she needs to cut her hair to a more "age appropriate" length. Her hair is only shoulder-length, not that long! She just found a new male hairdresser though who loves her hair and is encouraging her to grow it out again. My dad is very happy. :)

Where did this idea that older women need to have short hair come from? I've always thought that long silver hair was absolutely stunning...

Cherry_Sprinkle
June 30th, 2009, 11:20 AM
the guy seriously sounds like a loon... I was curious of his other posts sounded as lame as that one and the last post was him asking if African American dominated cities had higher crime rates just because of their race... :crazyq: and then goes on to say "Tattoos are ugly and I suspect many of the 20 somethings getting them today will hate them when they are 45 and out of fashion. " :crazyq: so yeah... lol

enfys
June 30th, 2009, 11:48 AM
I haven't read all the comments but the first few at least are pro-long hair.

I've a good mind to smack him with my braid. It's good that I haven't met many of these people in real life, and I hope I never do.

Pixna
June 30th, 2009, 01:00 PM
I don't know where this garbage got started, but it seems to be this universal myth. Long hair makes most women more beautiful and feminine . . . and alluring. I think there is some bizarre cultural desire to defeminize women after they reach a certain age, as if "older women" can't be gorgeous and, yes, even sexy. I'm glad that a number of people debunked the myth (and the OP) on that site. Now we just have to get the rest of the world to join in!! :smirk:

NickalNack
June 30th, 2009, 01:16 PM
I think they're just jealous. The youngins don't want no competition, and the older ones who actually cut regret it and now want all others to do the same to compensate.

Haha, I doubt that's 100% true, but that's the only way that makes sense to me.

Themyst
June 30th, 2009, 01:27 PM
I always thought that the city-data forums were full of mostly older fuddy-dud people.

lora410
June 30th, 2009, 01:32 PM
unfortunately, that is a lot of peoples conception. They seem to think that we must fit in with with a certain style at a certain age.

swanns
June 30th, 2009, 01:33 PM
There's an awful lot of long-hair bashing going on online, it's insane. What kind of pleasure do they get from bringing other people down?? :confused: You almost never meet a long-haired person who feels the need to bash people with shorter hair do you?

Here's a link to a few links I posted in the longhair community on LiveJournal some time ago: http://community.livejournal.com/longhair/2692346.html Seriously, argh! (I suggest you take a look at what the staff answered to comments left by long-haired people in the first link, quite unbelievable isn't it?)

louieswife
June 30th, 2009, 01:52 PM
Thank You! I'm 47 years old. I have long hair. I keep it up in a clip, because of personal preference...But: I have heard someone saying how they think it's awful to see an older lady with their hair down, whether it's styled or not. This person actually seemed "disgusted" as she spoke of a 60 something person we are both are aquainted with. The older lady looks beautiful...perfect makeup, perfect jewerly, etc. Crazy, isn't it?

strwbrry dakri
June 30th, 2009, 02:13 PM
And why do the people on http://community.livejournal.com/longhair/2692346.html care that there are pictures of cats in the avatars, etc?

They might need a cheezburger or something.

Kirin
June 30th, 2009, 02:24 PM
So we are all granola earth mothers? hahahaha, sorry that one nearly made me fall out of my chair! Either they can't read or they have nothing better to do and are making this stuff up.

I loved that because one lady's hair is "long" to her ankles, it must have lice and be dirty. Really?

desertgirl
June 30th, 2009, 02:27 PM
Why all the hating?

I was somewhat surprised with the negative comments people were making about LHC having read quite a few threads on here and getting no negativity! (occasional frustration, okay, yes, but in general no hatin' on other people).

I can't say I understand why they feel so strongly about how they feel, but I guess they have a right to their own opinion.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

florenonite
June 30th, 2009, 02:34 PM
I don't know where this garbage got started, but it seems to be this universal myth. Long hair makes most women more beautiful and feminine . . . and alluring. I think there is some bizarre cultural desire to defeminize women after they reach a certain age, as if "older women" can't be gorgeous and, yes, even sexy. I'm glad that a number of people debunked the myth (and the OP) on that site. Now we just have to get the rest of the world to join in!! :smirk:

You're not allowed to be sexy, you're too old to reproduce! :p Seriously, though, I think this is why there's this overwhelming cultural "need" for women to remain looking young, which doesn't exist for men. Men can still reproduce well into their sixties, whereas most women are more or less infertile by their forties. Yes, they still menstruate, but it's very rare for them to conceive. Hence, a "sexy" woman is one who exudes youth and health, and therefore women should look young and get Botox and everything.

There was a comment article from a newspaper scanned and posted on the old forums once that gave an interesting answer to the question of why "older" (ie. middle-aged) women are told to cut their hair. The woman in question had recently cut her shoulder-length hair short and gotten lots of positive comments from readers on it. She went to ask her hairdresser why there's this stigma regarding older women with long hair, and he said that it comes down to money.

Younger women, confident in their appearance, will wear their hair however they want (I'm assuming he means twenty-somethings, as teenagers tend to be influenced by peer pressure in their appearance), regardless of what people say. Yes, they are influenced by magazines, celebrities, etc., but they aren't going to cut their hair because "society" says so. Older women are less confident. They know that they aren't supposed to look old, so if people tell them they look younger with shorter hair, they're more likely to cut it. By the same token, they'll colour it, too. This brings salons big money from all the middle-aged women trying to maintain their "youthful" styles.

I'm not saying people oughtn't to colour their greys, maybe there's pressure from their employer to look young (though why your sex appeal has anything to do with your job escapes me), or maybe they feel too young to look "old", or something, and I'm not judging or condemning their actions. I do think it's sad, however, that women feel a prevailing requirement to look young.

Morrighan
June 30th, 2009, 04:21 PM
There's an awful lot of long-hair bashing going on online, it's insane. What kind of pleasure do they get from bringing other people down?? :confused: You almost never meet a long-haired person who feels the need to bash people with shorter hair do you?

Here's a link to a few links I posted in the longhair community on LiveJournal some time ago: http://community.livejournal.com/longhair/2692346.html Seriously, argh! (I suggest you take a look at what the staff answered to comments left by long-haired people in the first link, quite unbelievable isn't it?)

I can't believe the second link is another long hair site too! I didn't even read the whole first page, but I'll go through it later. I'm wondering what the hell they're thinking. I guess they like long hair, but not "to long". They probably turned away any members they had with hair longer than wherever their "to long" cut off point is.

Tom Steinberg
June 30th, 2009, 04:54 PM
It interesting how some people see themselves as right in deciding how something (like hair length) "should" be. That really says more about them than whom they refer to. Where does this need to control come from?

adiapalic
June 30th, 2009, 04:59 PM
I think this guy is just shooting off a bunch of crap that borders on ageism.

The aesthetic quality of long hair does not diminish as an individual ages. It's narrow-minded, reductionist, a huge generalization. He's limiting the partiality to long hair to the 1960's youth counterculture? Come on. I can almost picture him snarling as he describes women attempting to capture their youth through maintaining longer hair. Women chopping their hair into permed bobs is actually a relatively new thing--as in, the last 20th century, new. Before that, long hair was pretty much the norm for women.

My mama kept a short pixie cut from the time she was in her mid 20's til her late 40's. She's going to be 51 this August, and now her hair is nearly to her waist--it's never been more beautiful.

I'm usually very partial to long hair on anyone, but there are some people that short hair suits perfectly. In any case, give me long locks of silver hair on a matured woman any day over a short, phony, just because you want to "fit in with the other ladies" poodle-perm!

Carolyn
June 30th, 2009, 06:50 PM
This 60s hippie chick/grandma would reply BITE ME to anyone who dared say something like that to my face. Then they would be hit with a facefull of my way too long hair as I flounced away :p

Paul KMF
June 30th, 2009, 07:25 PM
Ugh, I was about to post soemthing there when I noticed the date, Nov. 2007. I'd like to tell "Goodtype" a thing or two but I never like to waste my breath. :poot:

He's wrong on every point, my grandma had hair to her knees but kept it in a bun. She was born in 1899, I don't think she was a hippie.
I'd like to see what that fuddy duddy thinks about my hair, heheh.

I love to see older ladies with very long gray hair. I'm not "turned on" by it exactly but it is beautiful and beauty is not always about sex.
It's disturbing to see an elderly lady with hair above her ears. I'm like "Why? Why?" lol.

Paul

Flotsum
June 30th, 2009, 07:27 PM
Why is it okay to spend hours, upon hours at the gym to feel and look our best at any age but it is not okay to maintain healthy and long hair as long as we want? I saw a couple of women with long silvery hair the other day and I thought it was gorgeous. There is something wrong with people that need to put other people down who don't share their opinion.

Flynn
June 30th, 2009, 07:29 PM
Ugh, I was about to post soemthing there when I noticed the date, Nov. 2007. I'd like to tell "Goodtype" a thing or two but I never like to waste my breath. :poot:

He's wrong on every point, my grandma had hair to her knees but kept it in a bun. She was born in 1899, I don't think she was a hippie.
I'd like to see what that fuddy duddy thinks about my hair, heheh.

I love to see older ladies with very long gray hair. I'm not "turned on" by it exactly but it is beautiful and beauty is not always about sex.
It's disturbing to see an elderly lady with hair above her ears. I'm like "Why? Why?" lol.

Paul

Aye, often enough elderly ladies with really short hair look extremely harsh. Even not-old-but-no-longer-teenaged ladies can look extremely harsh with short hair!

It really depends on the person, though.

Dementia1013
June 30th, 2009, 07:36 PM
Ugh, I was about to post soemthing there when I noticed the date, Nov. 2007. I'd like to tell "Goodtype" a thing or two but I never like to waste my breath. :poot:

He's wrong on every point, my grandma had hair to her knees but kept it in a bun. She was born in 1899, I don't think she was a hippie.
I'd like to see what that fuddy duddy thinks about my hair, heheh.

I love to see older ladies with very long gray hair. I'm not "turned on" by it exactly but it is beautiful and beauty is not always about sex.
It's disturbing to see an elderly lady with hair above her ears. I'm like "Why? Why?" lol.

Paul

*High five*

rawgirl75
June 30th, 2009, 07:37 PM
(I hope I can explain this right...)

I believe that the 1# reason why people think that short hairstyles are the norm for anyone over the age of 50 is this:

Search on the internet for the popular hairstyles of the 1930's-1950's. What were they? Mostly short cut and permed.

As these women grew older, they often keep up the same hairstyle as the years got on. Those of us born after 1960, grew up remembering our mothers and aunts all with this hairstyle and have come to assume it's the norm for older women. I believe that as those of us who were born in the 60s retire, we'll start seeing longer hairstyles become the norm again.

I'm going to be the most curious about what my own future grandkids are going to consider the norm: A lotta punk hairstyles in my generation. :D

SurprisingWoman
June 30th, 2009, 10:05 PM
I don't waste my time reading people like that. They just fark me the heck off so to heck with them.

Bene
June 30th, 2009, 10:44 PM
the dude is obviously a nut... but i can kind of see what he and the other "older ladies should chop it off" people were saying. or to be more precise, i think i figured out why they were saying it.


evolutionary anthropologists have pretty much figured out why men find a certain type of woman attractive. hip to waist ratio, breast size, etc. these are indicators that she will be a good breeder. (i know, this is cave man talk, and yes modern human is beyond that, but these sorts of attractions have been bred into humans) if we take that a step further, younger women tend to be healthier and more fertile, as well as having higher success rates at producing viable offspring. when you see an adult male leering at young (some barely passed the beginning of puberty) females, they can't help the attraction, what they do with that attraction whether they go about their business or approach said young female is attributed to higher brain function. not basic naked ape animal urges. a younger female is not only going to be fertile, she is less likely to have many sexual partners, and the chances of any child (if he were to "fertilize" her), would be the offspring of the one dude.

yes, that's a lot, but i have a point.


so yeah, men are designed to be attracted to women who fit a certain mold. and yes there are men who aren't attracted to that, personal preferences, blah blah blah. that's a higher brain function. we're talking about basic reptile brain urges.

so why are older women supposed to chop their hair off once they reach a certain age? i have two hypotheses on this.


1) long hair has been associated with youth, health, and in many cases fertility. somewhere in the subconscious mind, youth EQUALS fertility. now, when a woman reaches roughly 40, what do we see? menopause. she is no longer fertile. by this time, she has probably already had several children, and all of her energy is going into seeing her offspring into adulthood. she has enough mouths to feed, has probably had several partners/mates. the chances that any offspring she may produce after this age will survive the 1st year of life and reach reproductive age are smaller. this is on top of the fact that she is less fertile already. she is no longer attractive. so why attempt to attract a sexual partner if you can't produce viable offspring. it's the ol' switcharoo. she looks hot, but she's not fertile. this sort of paradox doesn't harmonize with how people think. long hair means young and fertile -> infertile is unnattractive -> older ladies should stop trying to be hot -> older ladies should chop their hair off.


2) up until fairly recently, people wouldn't live to see older ages. many women died in childbirth or if they made it past childbearing years, the ravages of hard life, squeezing out 10 kids, making sure those kids survived... all these things take their toll on the body. deep wrinkles, missing teeth, disease, gravity.... women past 40 were GRANDMOTHERS. the idea that older women can be attractive and sexual is still pretty new. it takes time for something so deeply ingrained into the public consciousness to evolve and catch up with how the quality of life has changed the way older people appear. go to any developing country that has no electricity, running potable water, access to modern medical resources and show me a hot granny. she'd be pretty hard to find. but you find me one that has survived to older age without modern conveniences and you'll have a snapshot of what has been human reality for the last few thousand years.


what it comes down to is this: the people who think older ladies should chop their hair are just stuck in a primitive way of thinking. the seeming paradox of old hot ladies just freaks them out.

MomoKoNoHanna
July 1st, 2009, 01:36 AM
He is obviously not a very smart person... to put it lightly. I love long silver hair and hope to have some one day on myself :) My parents were dissapointed when I cut my hair to pixie. They dis-liked me and my sister dying our hair. Now I have taken their advice and I am growing it out naturally to a long length (BSL or waiste? mmm) He obviously knows nothing about history or anything about the Romans! :rolleyes:

marzipanthecat
July 1st, 2009, 02:31 AM
Actually, it is interesting what is defined as "long hair" on the forum. I mean, I come from a family where women either have cropped short hair (we're talking less than an inch long) or down-to-the-waist hair. There doesn't seem to be much in between! So I grew up thinking "long" hair meant about three feet long... It's just that (of course) long hair can just as well be defined as almost touching the shoulders, as one poster says.

I'm simply of the opinion that women (and men) can wear their hair how they like, and yes, of course long hair can look lovely on an older woman!

I am waiting to go grey (I hope I go steel-grey all over eventually) because I think it's a fabulous colour. (I can't get too worked up about finding grey or white hairs!)

hennaphile
July 1st, 2009, 03:17 AM
I think some people seriously need to be braid-slapped.

If I live long enough, I want fabulous classic hair. To me nothing says old lady like a short white cloud of hair, but if that's what they want, then it's great for them ;)

Pixna
July 1st, 2009, 06:49 AM
I don't waste my time reading people like that. They just fark me the heck off so to heck with them.

Fark??? That's a fabulous word. I'm not sure what it means exactly, but I get the drift. I've got to add this one to my vocabulary! :redgrin:

Unzadi
July 1st, 2009, 06:50 AM
I think some people seriously need to be braid-slapped.


I nominate "braid-slapped" as a new official word. Longhaired gals (and guys) over 40 have had decades to grow braids that will slap some sense into those who make silly must-go-short-after-40 comments.

BlackfootHair
July 1st, 2009, 07:11 AM
haha, notice 62.32% say long hair? I think people can be silly with their judgements. I work with a hair dresser that says once your 50 it shouldn't touch the shoulders! And also doesn't like my henna!

Caldonia Sun
July 1st, 2009, 07:14 AM
As the saying goes, "Opinions are like @ssh0les; everyone has one."

Themyst
July 1st, 2009, 09:31 AM
As the saying goes, "Opinions are like @ssh0les; everyone has one."

And they usually stink.

Jezzie
July 2nd, 2009, 12:33 AM
And why do the people on http://community.livejournal.com/longhair/2692346.html care that there are pictures of cats in the avatars, etc?

They might need a cheezburger or something.

I belong to that community (on LiveJournal) and I've read that thread before and never noticed comments about the cats in avatars. I believe you may be referring to this community and it's thread: http://www.longhaircareforum.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-66952.html



There seems to be 3 "main" communities for long hair.
LiveJournal longhair
The Long Hair Community (aka LHC, aka where we are right now! :))
The Long Hair Care Forum (aka LHCF)It is actually the third comm, LHCF, that has quite an aggressive/nasty thread about how long is too long and includes comments about avatars on LHC (there is a link to the LHCF thread from the LiveJournal thread that strwbrry dakri mentions, which is actually a thread complaining about an article and the other LHCF thread)

While it can be confusing as to which community people are referring to I do believe that LiveJournal longhair is rarely negative about people with "long" hair nor about this community.

One person who is a member on LiveJournal and LHCF said this: "As a member of Long Hair Care Forum, there was nothing wrong with that thread. The forum is for Women of Color who are trying to grow their hair long, and someone was just how long was too long for the women in the forum. For a lot of these women, they have never had the luxury of considering what length would be too long for them."

So while I disagree with a lot of comments on the LHCF thread I suppose everyone is entitled to their opinions.


Not to make this a rant or anything, I just find it a tad unfair when the wrong community is pointed at for comments that are negative and so figured I'd make the correction.

Oh by the way I love cheezburger and everyones cat pics!! I'm a major cat lover hehe

JCFantasy23
September 6th, 2009, 05:31 AM
unfortunately, that is a lot of peoples conception. They seem to think that we must fit in with with a certain style at a certain age.


I'm 29 now so am not really getting these comments...yet. But I did grow up with my mother and aunt saying when you reach a certain age you have to start going shorter for your "age"....:rolleyes:

Lamb
September 6th, 2009, 05:40 AM
It seems like both long and short/medium hair are bashed - long hair is "ridiculous" on middle aged women, and short hair is either "unfeminine" or "terminally boring" or "soccer mom hair".
Just goes to prove that opinions are like... ehm.

oogie
September 6th, 2009, 05:57 AM
all I'm going to say is - guy probably gets off on watching shaved videos on youtube.

Pardon my saying so if that offends anyone.

Melisande
September 6th, 2009, 06:39 AM
I really couldn't care less what a bunch of strangers on the internet think theoretically about my or anyone else's hair. I don't think it's rude if they write somewhere that they find people like me ridiculous. If they were invited to my house for coffee and were to utter this opinion over my nectarine cake, it would be a different matter. That would be rude.

But the Internet has many corners. I can't get worked up over the stereotypes that live in other peoples' heads. At least not these kind of stereotypes.

I think the anthropological explanation is very sound and and I notice in myself the willingness to "resign" and leave the stage for the younger generation. I'm glad I recovered some of my self confidence, also thanks to my hair ;-) but it's not easy to switch from the role of young and attractive to middle-aged and invisibile. Of course, when you are young, you believe it won't happen to you but just as your 16th birthday comes along, the 30th and the 40th follow, and it seems to me that also th 50th and 60th are inevitable, if you don't pick the even more unpleasant alternative ;-)

So we better get used to the thought and find an identity that is not solely based on our attractiveness for the opposite sex. I'm in the lucky situation of having a very loving partner who thinks I'm hotter today than yesterday, and that helps. But I had and have to re-define for myself who I am, and how I get along with the changes of age. Some are welcome and I'm proud of them, others are neutral and don't disturb me, others fill me with a little self-pity ;-) that I have to get over. After all, there are really so many things going on in everybody's life, my self-feelings are not the most important in my life....

But really, these processes are complex enough. They are shaped by our personalities, life decisions, health and financial situation, genetics, surroundings, norms and beliefs. I really can't take a group of longhair-over-40-bashers on some obscure Internet forum into the equation, sorry ;-)

GlassEyes
September 6th, 2009, 07:10 AM
How many people on here have complained about various hairstyles they find ridiculous? I find this no better or no worse, after thinking about it. They're entitled to their opinion--doesn't mean you have to cater to it, or that I think it's right.

Little_Bird
September 6th, 2009, 08:16 AM
All this talk about long hair making women look older is really nonsense to me.

Long hair is definitly a sign of youth and freshness, so it's hardly something that ages people.

For me, a hair that ages is layeres and short and processed to the roots with highlights and straightened...

Something like that at least. To me it's more aging than natural long hair, even if left grown white.

But oh well... Gotta believe what they say right? ;)

(Naaahhh..... :cheese:)

Bellona
September 6th, 2009, 08:27 AM
Long hair definitely can be worn on older women! I actually always imagined short hair as something I would do throughout my teens/early 20's and that I'd settle into long hair when I got older! Some people just always have to be rude. Who cares how others wear their hair? :cheese:

Unofficial_Rose
September 6th, 2009, 08:27 AM
all I'm going to say is - guy probably gets off on watching shaved videos on youtube.

Pardon my saying so if that offends anyone.

Hahaha! Oogie, you are a goddess :spitting:

I saw a fifty-something lady with gorgeous long, grey/blonde hair today. Reminded me of Spidermom. If mine did that, I would be extremely happy. :)

Hiriel
September 6th, 2009, 01:56 PM
I have to admit I find the thread on the Long Hair Care Forums amusing. Granted, my idea of what is 'long' has changed since I joined here, but hair past BSL is too long? For a Long Hair Care Forum? Oh well.

I will add that my friend's great-grandmother had knee-length snowy white hair to her dying day (she lived to be almost 100). It looked spectacular when she let it down, I'm told. I only ever saw it bunned. It was fine and silky and lovely.

thankyousir74
September 6th, 2009, 02:29 PM
All I have to say is :rolleyes: to that link.

pepperminttea
September 6th, 2009, 04:48 PM
It interesting how some people see themselves as right in deciding how something (like hair length) "should" be. That really says more about them than whom they refer to. Where does this need to control come from?

Ditto. I'm not saying I agree with the OP of that thread's comments about it starting with "hippies" - but a little free love might do him some good. ;) Live and let live.

redwoman
September 6th, 2009, 05:22 PM
:rolleyes:Go figure....

WaimeaWahine
September 6th, 2009, 05:47 PM
It's all about height, weight, shape of the face and most importantly....preference. - OP's linkForget about age. Apparently you have be about yay tall and weigh this much and have a certain shape to your face but hey - it's all about preference. Mmkay.


Also, I can't imagine having hot flashes and having to put up with soo much hair!Key words: put up.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1030/950373417_14f31788da.jpg

Your basic insecure person hiding behing her hair not ready to let go of her youth.Wow. The remarks are borderline misogynistic. Why do they always assume either literally or figuratively that women are "hiding." The young woman above is real and genuine.

GlennaGirl
September 6th, 2009, 08:42 PM
How many people on here have complained about various hairstyles they find ridiculous?

Not very many. I've seen practically every hairtype and hair style complimented on here. I think the only actual thread I've seen so far that contained people going "eew" was that one with the man who supposedly has the longest hair in the world, but it's unwashed (by his admission, that's not a judgment...and he didn't seem to be saying WO, either) and matted.

I've seen people compliment mohawks they've seen in pictures and say they were brave enough to do it. I've seen blue, red and bleached streaks complimented.

How many people here have complained about others' hairstyles? For the amount of different hairstyles we talk about...a few, here and there, but not many. This is a pretty openminded forum.