Advice Needed - Flat Hair Crisis

[Raven2448]

I've always had flat hair (very fine and thin) and now that its so healthy thanks to BAQ henna it is flatter yet. Last year I got it all cut off for volume but HATED having to use a curling iron and hairspray. I've been back on the grow since last August.

I want to grow it long again (past BSL) but won't be able to wear it down without help. I'm considering a body wave or just throwing perm solution on my hair to dry it out and fatten it up. Are there any other options I can consider? And is it save to perm over BAQ henna? I'm reading conflicting articles.

Any advice much appreciated!:)

[feralnature]

If you are not completely sold on the idea of perming, maybe you could try some other techniques? I have fine limp hair too, although my siggy doesn't show it. I shampoo my head and don't condition it. I only condition below my ears. I do not comb my hair, i leave it to dry messy which gives volume. I just avoid anything that flattens my hair out and do every thing i can to mess it up...thus puffing it out....without damage or chemicals.(I do NOT blowfry or tease btw)

[WelshLocks]

Have you tried volume shampoo?I'm sure the lovely ladies(and gents) here can give you some good recipes on volume, but if not you might try herbal essence "body envy". I have naturally thick hair with a ton of volume so I can't really help you other than give suggestions.I know that herbal essence smells good and has always done really well with my hair.
I don't think a perm would solve all of your problems. And why perm your beautiful hair?Your avatar shows that you have naturally shiny beautiful hair.

Here's the link for the shampoo collection:
http://www.herbalessences.com/us/collections/body_envy/default.jsp



Good luck!

[Norai]

You could try using shampoo bars, they add a good amount of volume. Moreso than any volumizing shampoo I've ever tried. :)

[rose_in_bloom]

I agree with Norai, shampoo bars give me really nice volume and texture. I also have super flat, fine, and thin hair.

[BrianaFineHair]

Hi, I have the same hair type - fine and thin. About a month ago, on a whim, I got a body wave (my hair dresser talked me out of getting it cut - she's a keeper!). Anyway, I really HATE the way my hair looks now. No, it was not cut, and for that I am grateful, but the body wave did NOT make it fuller or better looking. It looks worse, imo. I got the body wave 2 weeks after I did a henna treatment. It did not seem to affect it in any negative way.

For ladies like ourselves, I think the best we can do is just keep our hair healthy, be kind to it, and be more creative with updo's and braids.

When I wear my hair down, rarely does it look good. Within a half hour, I'm looking stringy.

You can try body building mouse though. Honestly, I forgot about mouse so I think I'll give it a try too. I'm just really funny about the products I put on my hair/scalp. I like to keep it natural, which is another reason I was so upset with myself for giving in to my hair dresser's body wave recommendation. I cringe thinking about the chemicals that were put on my hair/scalp. I'll never do it again.

How short is your hair now? What type of cut do you have? When I wanted to grow out my hair from a super short pixie, I went to my hair dresser every couple of months and she would shape it slowly into a bob and once we had that chin length bob, I was home free for growing it out as long as I kept the hem blunt all the way out. It just gives my hair a fuller look.

[Anje]

I'm going to second the idea of using shampoo bars, and if you use a conditioner, you might want to chose a lightweight one, and concentrate on putting it on the longer parts of your hair (say, below the ears or shoulders). DH has thin, fine hair that gets flat, and he loves his shampoo bars because of the volume they give him, even with conditioner.

It also might be worth washing (or at least doing your final rinse) with your head upside down, and see if you can comb your hair out that direction, too. Dry with hair going up. (perhaps multiple turbaned towels. Some sites would suggest blowfrying, which doesn't go over well here, though a moderately warm or cool setting on the roots might be in order.)

To some extent, though, you may have to come to terms with having flat hair. As it gets longer, the weight will flatten it against your scalp more. Also, wearing it up tends to pull hair fairly close to the scalp. Part of this is a language adjustment -- your hair isn't 'flat', it's 'sleek'!

[BrianaFineHair]

"Part of this is a language adjustment -- your hair isn't 'flat', it's 'sleek'!"
Awww! :) I like that!:)

[feralnature]

You could try a small amount of the product "Bed Head". It really gives you a certain "look", depends on what you are going for. I haven't used it since I had shorter hair, don't know how it would work on long hair...maybe just in the roots? It is somehow different than regular mouse.

[Qamar]

I've always had flat hair (very fine and thin) and now that its so healthy thanks to BAQ henna it is flatter yet. Last year I got it all cut off for volume but HATED having to use a curling iron and hairspray. I've been back on the grow since last August.

I want to grow it long again (like in my aviator pic) but won't be able to wear it down without help. I'm considering a body wave or just throwing perm solution on my hair to dry it out and fatten it up. Are there any other options I can consider? And is it save to perm over BAQ henna? I'm reading conflicting articles.

Any advice much appreciated!:)


I wouldn't perm it--you'll just be causing damage and defeating your longer term goal of having longer healthy hair. Try changing the location of your part. I flip mine from side to side if my hair starts to get flat and since the hair is now having to go in the exact opposite direction its been used to, I have instant volume. Also, henna can affect perms anyhow--it interferes with the absorption of the chemicals so perms frequently don't take well (or as well) after a recent henna application anyhow.

[Nat242]

Great suggestions already! I can get a bit more "lift" at my roots by applying a small amount of pure shea butter. Braid waves can also give volume.

[tarn]

I'm with Qamar on this one.
Just remember that if you get it permed there is upkeep. It will grow out and you will have to either put up with the regrowth, or continue to perm which can really dry your hair and affect it's condition. I think your hair looks great the way it is.
My hair pre-kids was pretty flat and a hairdresser said I could get a root perm to lift the roots and give them volume. I had never heard of it before or since, but maybe something like that could be an option? I'm still guessing it wouldn't be great for your hair's condition though.

[kdaniels8811]

I also have flat, thin hair and USED to perm to get volume. Which was fine until it grew out, then I still had a flat crown and full length. So I would get the roots permed and it damaged my hair so much - you cannot help getting the perm solution on more than just the virgin hair - that it all broke off.

One of the things I LOVE about this forum is it teaches you acceptance of what hair we have and how to make it better. I love seeing pictures of long thick hair but the folks that have thick or beautifully curly hair complain they would like fine/thin hair because of how beautiful it can be. We always want something different, don't we?

I second changing your part around. That helps. And I pull the front of my hair up like I am doing a half up when bunning my hair - there is an article by Nighshade about giving some fullness in the front. I don't like the way I look with hair pulled straight back off my face. Good luck and hope this helps some...

[natt i nord]

Did you think about a honey rinse? The sweet honey works as a holder of curls for example, you could try this and plopping (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=685&highlight=plopping) together, it might help.

[Raven2448]

I thank all of you for your advice and suggestions!

I've tried just about everything : sprays, gels, mousse, teasing (which I hate to do), drying hair upside down, blow drying while lifting at roots, root lifters, hot rollers, velcro rollers, poo only, ACV on scalp, change part... etc etc etc...

Looks like I've got a few more options to try:
* Plopping
* Shea Butter on roots
* Shampoo bars

I really don't want to deal with chemicals...so I'll give these suggestions a try

To anyone out there with thin/fine hair thinking of going short for volume - DONT DO IT!
It's a neat change for about a month and then its a pain in the butt.
Keep it simple and keep your beautiful length!!!!

It has taken me an entire year to finally get my hair to a uniform length and past my jaw.
As of last month, I can FINALLY pull it up in a pony or clip while continuing the growing process. It should be all downhill from here.

One good thing did come out of this... I always thought my bangs were too much and wanted just a thin "dusting" of fringe which I now have. I took the opportunity to make the change while my hair was already in chaos. My original bang is now at my chin.


Thanks everyone!

[florenonite]

I've got fine hair, and although it's thick, I find that I have issues with it looking flat. What I've found works best is either combing a part into it and combing straight down immediately after a shower, before putting it up into a towel to dry or, preferably (because I don't like the drips of water when I comb my hair when it's sopping wet), combing straight back from the front when I'm detangling and then running my fingers through my hair to get a bit of a parting, so it doesn't get pressed against my head.

[earthdancer]

I also have fine hair that used to lie completely flat, like I ironed it onto the top of my head. I agree with the shampoo bar; my hair texture is completely different now that I use bars! I don't need hairspray for lift anymore, and the whole length feels thicker.

I don't even need conditioner anymore! I wait until my hair is mostly dry before I comb it and the tangles just fall out. Less than 30 seconds!

I also alternate with Frieda shampoo for platinum blondes every 3 or 4 times to get build-up out (many shampoo bars contain wax, and I think that's what the build-up is). I don't have platinum blond hair, it just gets build-up out without the yucky smell most clarifying shampoos have.

I also alternate my part.

Last, STEP AWAY from the perm solution! I had it professionally done several years ago, but it ruined my hair and I had to cut it really short afterward. :mad:

[LilyMunster]

I have seen a woman put tiny vinyl elastics along the top of her head, about a half inch out from the scalp. While soaking wet. Allowed to drip dry. I saw her next day elastics out, nice lift. Like a root perm without damage.

[bigdreamer]

My first comment is just observational - I would absolutely LOVE to have flat hair!! My hair is wavy and literally poofs up before my eyes at the slightest hint of humidity, which is about 3/4 of the year when you include rain. I'm hoping some serious length some day will flatten it out...

Anyway, Bumble and Bumble makes a product called Surf Spray, that sort of roughs up the hair shaft and gives you "beach hair" (which for me means HUGE hair, I stay far away from the stuff)

As a natural alternative, maybe spray some salt water on and just let it dry naturally to try for the same effect.

[Kirin]

I have fine thin and yes, flat hair, or did, until I STOPPED using henna. Bleaching it out was the best thing I ever did frankly. I'll take the two inches of end damage over the stick straight bald look any day. The more you use henna, the flatter and straighter it will get, especially if you were that way to begin with.

Careful on the shampoo bars, if your hair is fragile as well. The alkaline enviornment though it makes it thicker, temporarily, can wreak some true havoc with your hair ends. Many will suggest a vinegar or acid rinse afterward to counteract the alkaline, however, the alkaline is on your hair, for however long, every time you shampoo. On me it accumulated badly. My hair could not handle it.

For volume I'm a great advocate of "cold" hairdrier use, using the air, not heat setting. If you don't have a hair drier that does this, get one. There's no use fighting upstream every day to get what you want, when there is gel and mousse around for lift and volume. There are tons out there, and I swear your hair won't shrivel up into a fried mess from it.

"Volume" shampoos rarely, if ever, do what they promise. I've been at this a long time and tried almost every single one out there. They are basically clarifying shampoos, thats about it. Don't waste your money for "fat hair in a bottle". Its not going to happen. Just look amongst the shelves, and read the ingredients from a volume shampoo to another shampoo in the line. Probably the only difference is a lack of silicones. They are also pretty harsh if you have any color in your hair or damage.

I agree with the "no conditioner" route. Try a leave in you apply after a shampoo, and only to the ends. This one trick did it for me, I now have waves, lots of them even in my bangs.

Avoid the perm, you'll likely regret it. Natural curls and wave are pretty much the ones we want and we'll never get out of a box or salon.

[earthdancer]

Careful on the shampoo bars, if your hair is fragile as well. The alkaline enviornment though it makes it thicker, temporarily, can wreak some true havoc with your hair ends.
It could depend on your water; in some places, water is very alkaline and in some places water tends toward the acidic, so a shampoo bar (which is natural soap) will act differently under the various conditions. I also use a clarifying shampoo about every 1 1/2 to 2 weeks to get out any build-up. Since using shampoo bars, my hair has stopped splitting, too, which is amazing! I was getting about 50 new splits every time I washed my hair, and now it's maybe 3 or 4.

[earthdancer]

Careful on the shampoo bars, if your hair is fragile as well. The alkaline enviornment though it makes it thicker, temporarily, can wreak some true havoc with your hair ends.

I read that it was the cones in commercial shampoos that artificially thinned and smoothed the hair shaft.

I have to say that my water is extremely alkaline, about as alkaline as you can find here in the US, but I have had a very positive experience with shampoo bars, and as I said in my previous post, I have very, very few split ends now even though I no longer use conditioner or oil my hair. Don't need to!

I do use a vinegar rinse sometimes as well as a clarifying shampoo a couple of times a month. I went on vacation and took shampoo instead of my bar, and I had tons of split ends again. I am back home using my shampoo bar and my hair is much, much happier. Just sayin'.

[Raven2448]

All good tips!

I have been forgoing the conditioner with surprising results – strangely, it seems I don’t really need the stuff! It seems the jojoba on the ends when dry is enough. THANKS! One less product in the shower!

Just got my shampoo bars & shea butter from CV yesterday - thank you all for your suggestions! I can’t wait to try them out. I selected 6 samples based on feedback in other threads. I plan to critique each and post results in my blog.

Thanks again everyone! hehheee

[klcqtee]

Have you considered rag rollers, or drying your hair upside down? (I mean either combing and blow drying it while your head is down by your knees and you're stooped over, or combing it that way, and putting it in a pony tail (on top of your head) and allowing it to dry like that. Then when you take it down, it will be poofy and have a bit more volume (particularly at the roots)).

[Lilli]

We have really hard water in Pittsburgh (unless you have a full-house softener) and shampoo bars + hard water = sticky, dull hair. You will have volume, yes - but it likely will not be shiny and it will be very tangly.

I vote acceptance and avoid cones. That is what I do. I have had perms for body and to tell the truth, I don't know if they work, because I spent the whole time missing my glossy, straight hair. Work your shiny look and learn to love it.

Also, there are conditioners that work for thin, flat hair - I just tried the new Garnier conditioner in the dark green bottle with all the oils (forget what it's called, something like deep repair or something) - no cones whatsoever, very moisturizing, and completely non-flattening! Love it!

[willowcandra]

I have always found that I get a great bit of volume going if I wash upside down and dry my roots with a hairdryer set to cold.

You could also try a few braids for some wave.

[Zéphine]

My hair gets a bit of volume if I take it down from a braid or bun, finger comb, and massage my scalp a little. It doesn't get the big hair look that's so pretty on people with wavy or curly hair, but it looks fuller for a while.