Help with a Viking Knotted Ponytail

[Renbirde]

I'm currently working on a set of Viking costumes for myself and a group of friends. I'm not aiming to be perfectly historically correct (though that would be nice), just to look decent and be able to run quickly. :) One of the historical elements I'd like to incorporate is the hairstyles, though.

The VikingAnswerLady has a page (http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/hairstyl.shtml#WomensHairstyles)on Viking personal care that has images of hairstyles. One of them is a ponytail, knotted at the nape of the neck. (Search within the page for "Goldgubber Showing Women's Hairstyles" or scroll down...) The tail can be braided or left loose.

http://i42.tinypic.com/2vkjfa9.jpg

ETA: The photo (and my attempts) were three days after a Wash Day, but I used a lot of 'cones that time. I'll go try it again. I just washed my hair, but I clarified recently-- we'll see... The results! (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?p=625835#post625835) /ETA

I really like how it looks, and it shortens my hair by about a foot, which is also nice, but I can't get the blighted thing to stay! The knot starts sliding down the tail in less than a minute!

Braiding the tail helps a little, but I need the thing to stay through some fairly serious activity. The braid only gets me about an extra minute. I thought about pinning it, but I'm at a loss at what to pin. The knot sits at the nape of my neck-- there's no hair underneath to pin to! I thought about using a elastic at the base of the ponytail, but I don't think the knot would cover it, and it would change the finished shape.

Does anyone know how to deal with this? :confused:


ETA: So far I have these suggestions:

These are tried:
Pin the knot to itself (3/5-- slipped 5 fingers in an hour)
Use an elastic to fix the pony, then knot and pin with a hairstick between the elastic and the scalp (4/5-- barely slipped down, but knot unraveled.)

These are untried:
Use in damp hair (This was done, but I didn't leave it in very long, so I'm going to redo it.)
Use a stick or fork to pin the knot to the back of the head
Make the pony with an elastic and pull the tail through as the knot is tightened
Make the pony with an elastic, loop the knot twice, then pull the tail through the elastic.
Bind the knot a la Italian Hair Taping
Braid the tail (This was done, but in very 'coney hair, so I'm going to redo it.)

These I can't try because I don't have or can't find some hairtoy:
Sew through the knot with leather cording
Tie hair back with leather cording, knot, and then pin through knot and cord
Use a hair glove under the knot
Use a hair glove inside the knot

[hellkitty]

This is probably silly, but, I'll go anyway:

Vikings, and all medieval people, really, weren't so much into the whole bathing thing. The average medieval Christian bathed once a year--right before Easter. The reason I bring up this unpleasant factoid is that the problem with your hair slipping might be that your hair is too darned clean! If that's your hair, it is really clean (and pretty)!

All hairdressers I know swear that hair behaves better the day or two after a wash--the oils have spread through the hair, giving it some staying power.

I've managed this style actually accidentally (or something really close to) when I skank up my hair with oil the night before a good wash. Heavy with oil, my hair stays in this knot well. And your Viking friends (the actual ones) were known to have used bear grease for a number of purposes, including a hair pomade. I certainly don't suggest you do *that* (bear grease, by all accounts, smells horrible and it's SO not PC!)

The only other suggestion I'd have is to put a ponytail band or scrunchy right under the knot to act as a 'stop' to the downward slip of the knot.

Thanks for the link: something else to have fun checking out!

I sure hope someone else has more thoughts on this!

HK

[heidihug]

I like the way that looks, too, but I can never get knots to stay in my hair, either. The best I have done is to knot, then bun and secure with pins, up higher on the head. Perhaps if you start with damp-ish hair...? I am interested in the responses you get.

Another suggestion I thought of that looks very Viking/Norse are hair gloves (link to a company that sells them (http://www.hairglovecycle.com/ProductSelector.asp) so you can see what they look like). I really really want one to put around my braids, but, unfortunately, they are out of my price range at this time.

[GlassEyes]

This is probably silly, but, I'll go anyway:

Vikings, and all medieval people, really, weren't so much into the whole bathing thing. The average medieval Christian bathed once a year--right before Easter. The reason I bring up this unpleasant factoid is that the problem with your hair slipping might be that your hair is too darned clean! If that's your hair, it is really clean (and pretty)!

All hairdressers I know swear that hair behaves better the day or two after a wash--the oils have spread through the hair, giving it some staying power.

I've managed this style actually accidentally (or something really close to) when I skank up my hair with oil the night before a good wash. Heavy with oil, my hair stays in this knot well. And your Viking friends (the actual ones) were known to have used bear grease for a number of purposes, including a hair pomade. I certainly don't suggest you do *that* (bear grease, by all accounts, smells horrible and it's SO not PC!)

The only other suggestion I'd have is to put a ponytail band or scrunchy right under the knot to act as a 'stop' to the downward slip of the knot.

Thanks for the link: something else to have fun checking out!

I sure hope someone else has more thoughts on this!

HK

According to the site she linked to, you might be somewhat wrong. xD;

[Renbirde]

This is probably silly, but, I'll go anyway:

Vikings, and all medieval people, really, weren't so much into the whole bathing thing. The average medieval Christian bathed once a year--right before Easter. The reason I bring up this unpleasant factoid is that the problem with your hair slipping might be that your hair is too darned clean! If that's your hair, it is really clean (and pretty)!

VAL says towards the top of the page that the Vikings were actually pretty hardcore abut washing-- to the point that the Englishmen were complaining about their girls running off to shack up with the heathen barbarians. (They didn't take the hint, did they? :D) Of course, that bear grease would help counteract that...

Yep, that's my hair. :) Thanks for the complement. I try to wash it once a week... I cant remember how long after washing that photo was taken.


I've managed this style actually accidentally (or something really close to) when I skank up my hair with oil the night before a good wash. Heavy with oil, my hair stays in this knot well. And your Viking friends (the actual ones) were known to have used bear grease for a number of purposes, including a hair pomade. I certainly don't suggest you do *that* (bear grease, by all accounts, smells horrible and it's SO not PC!)

:D I think I'd have a hart time getting ahold of bear grease anyway. I've never heard of that, but it sounds like it'd work.

Mabye I'll have to grit my teeth and learn to oil. Might have trouble convincing the rest of the posse to try it. *giggles* One problem with that would be if the oil got onto the costumes...

[Renbirde]

Perhaps if you start with damp-ish hair...?

...

Another suggestion I thought of that looks very Viking/Norse are hair gloves (link to a company that sells them (http://www.hairglovecycle.com/ProductSelector.asp) so you can see what they look like). I really really want one to put around my braids, but, unfortunately, they are out of my price range at this time.

Doesn't work in damp hair either. I like the hair glove idea though. They wouldn't be hard to make, and I bet they'd hold really well if they were made out of leather and worn over an elastic banded pony or a braid with a long tassel.

(Ah, I love the LHC. So many nice people with good ideas!)

[SimplyViki]

Yeah, I've tried to do that a bunch of times. Poking a stick through it kinda helps, but I don't know about the vigorous activity...

[Renbirde]

I think I might have lied... This is in slightly damp, freshly washed, unbrushed, mostly cone-free hair, after I shook my head back and forth for a while. It seemed fairly secure, especially compared to the other attempts (The other day, I was trying not to move my head at all to keep the knots from falling out before I got pictures!), but I'd still like it a bit firmer...

http://i40.tinypic.com/10omg6c.jpg

It took me a few tries to get it up close to my head and fairly tight-- it's almost impossible to move it up or tighten it after the tail is pulled through. Mabye my technique was just bad before?

[misstwist]

Emichiee has done some Viking reenacting. I remember seeing some pictures but I think they were on an off-site blog. She has also posted some instructions for a Viking bun. You might pm her.

[hellkitty]

According to the site she linked to, you might be somewhat wrong. xD;

That's quite possible about Vikings. I'm not a Norse scholar. I specialize in 12th century France. The bathing-on-Easter thing would really only hold with Christians, and that would only sporadically mean a Norse population. (And not all Norse were 'Vikings'--whatever they are) I can speak with great certainty, however, about the bathing habits of medieval England and France.

I think we have to consider what we define to be 'bathing'. The site says that they bathed once a week--does that mean a full body wash? Does that mean that they used soap? Does 'bathing' include washing the hair? One thing I've learned in translating medieval documents is that you can't presume you know the definitions of words, even if you think you do! (The classic Norse one is what really is a 'berserker'?)

I'm not trying to finesse or wiggle out of my initial statement--that was an educated guess based on what I know for sure about my peeps trying to help solve a hair problem. But I do think maybe we shouldn't jump to conclusions and start making fun of me like I'm a complete idiot based on an article on the web that doesn't use primary source texts in their original language. Just because you read it on teh interwebz doesn't make it true.

I am so sorry I even tried to help.


HK

[Cinnamon Hair]

That's a great look! Maybe it would help to put pins (I use Good Hair Days plastic pins) all around the knot, to help it hold together. You wouldn't need the pins to reach your scalp, just dig them into the knot itself.

[Thinthondiel]

I think we have to consider what we define to be 'bathing'. The site says that they bathed once a week--does that mean a full body wash? Does that mean that they used soap? Does 'bathing' include washing the hair? One thing I've learned in translating medieval documents is that you can't presume you know the definitions of words, even if you think you do! (The classic Norse one is what really is a 'berserker'?)


I would assume that by "bathing" they mean a full body wash, especially since they actually named a weekday as "washing day"... in Scandinavian languages, Saturday is still called Lørdag/Lördag (from Laugardag - washing day).

I've read that Vikings made soap that they used for washing their body and for bleaching their hair - so they did use soap. They also combed their hair every day, apparently. The fact that they were so concerned with the appearance of their hair leads me to believe that they probably washed it when they bathed - i.e. once a week. But it's just guessing, of course.

ETA: Sorry I couldn't be of any help, btw.

[Renbirde]

That's a great look! Maybe it would help to put pins (I use Good Hair Days plastic pins) all around the knot, to help it hold together. You wouldn't need the pins to reach your scalp, just dig them into the knot itself.
Just poke them in from the outside edges into the middle of the knot? And what sort of pins? Do you use Amish/bun pins or bobby pins?

[Peter]

I can't offer any help for doing this style but I wanted to say it looks really good!

[eresh]

Maybe you could sew a leather or suede lace/cord in the knot?
Through the hair and the knot. And try which way it keeps the knot caged in place so to speak. The lace like an X over the knot and tied behind it?
It might not be historically correct, but it might do the trick.

[Renbirde]

Emichiee . . . has also posted some instructions for a Viking bun.
Where? I looked through the forums and her hair blog and didn't see them... I'm looking through the articles now...

ETA: No joy. I'll have to wait and hope she wanders by or replies to my PM. :)

[Renbirde]

Maybe you could sew a leather or suede lace/cord in the knot?
Through the hair and the knot. And try which way it keeps the knot caged in place so to speak. The lace like an X over the knot and tied behind it?
It might not be historically correct, but it might do the trick.
*Scampers off to find leather lacing*

[Cinnamon Hair]

Just poke them in from the outside edges into the middle of the knot? And what sort of pins? Do you use Amish/bun pins or bobby pins?

Yes, like that. These (http://www.ulta.com/ulta/browse/productDetail.jsp%3Bjsessionid=7A2433953BAC008F7CD 85862B5B7EFC9?skuId=2065030&productId=VP12251&categoryId=cat120122&title=Magic+Grip+Hair+Pins)are the pins I use. I have never tried Amish pins and I hate bobbies but either of those might work as well.

[plainjanegirl]

I think I might have lied... This is in slightly damp, freshly washed, unbrushed, mostly cone-free hair, after I shook my head back and forth for a while. It seemed fairly secure, especially compared to the other attempts (The other day, I was trying not to move my head at all to keep the knots from falling out before I got pictures!), but I'd still like it a bit firmer...

http://i40.tinypic.com/10omg6c.jpg

It took me a few tries to get it up close to my head and fairly tight-- it's almost impossible to move it up or tighten it after the tail is pulled through. Mabye my technique was just bad before?


How do you do that? It looks so neat!!!

[Renbirde]

How do you do that? It looks so neat!!!
Really? Thank you! I thought it was messy!

Pull your hair back in a low pony. I haven't been using any elastic, but that's kind of the point of this thread-- this thing's still experimental. Try an elastic and see if it works. ;)

Twist the base of the pony slightly-- just enough that the strands of hair are more or less under control. (Like above, you could try twisting it more or less... I think that the first picture, up at the top, was done with a lot of twist here.)

Make a loop as close to your head as you can-- this is what controls how high your knot ends up. It's almost impossible to tighten or move the knot up once the knot is tied!

reach through the loop, grab your tail, and pull it through, forming an overhand knot.

Fiddle with the ginormous wad of hair stuck to the back of your head and try to get it to lay together orderly.;)

(You can braid the tail too, which helps it hold slightly better.)

Repeat as necessary. :D For something so simple, it sure is a pain.

[Renbirde]

Yes, like that. These (http://www.ulta.com/ulta/browse/productDetail.jsp%3Bjsessionid=7A2433953BAC008F7CD 85862B5B7EFC9?skuId=2065030&productId=VP12251&categoryId=cat120122&title=Magic+Grip+Hair+Pins)are the pins I use. I have never tried Amish pins and I hate bobbies but either of those might work as well.
Oh! I have those. Cool. :D

[mugglemomof3]

I second (or third) the good day pins idea! I can't live without those little suckers!!!

Cool 'do Renbirde. I hope you find something that works.

heidihug! Those are uber cool hairtoys! Thanks for posting that link.

[misstwist]

Where? I looked through the forums and her hair blog and didn't see them... I'm looking through the articles now...

ETA: No joy. I'll have to wait and hope she wanders by or replies to my PM. :)

I think her bun instructions are in the community meets section of the board that you don't have access to yet. That's why I suggested you pm her.

[Renbirde]

I second (or third) the good day pins idea! I can't live without those little suckers!!!

Cool 'do Renbirde. I hope you find something that works.

heidihug! Those are uber cool hairtoys! Thanks for posting that link.
:P Since this was easiest (more or less) It'll be the first I test. I've got the pony in with two pins now. If I lift the knot a little, I can fit 3 fingers between it and the back of my head. I'm going to wander around now and see how much it loosens up. :cool:

[vindo]

Vikings, and all medieval people, really, weren't so much into the whole bathing thing. The average medieval Christian bathed once a year--right before Easter. The reason I bring up this unpleasant factoid is that the problem with your hair slipping might be that your hair is too darned clean! If that's your hair, it is really clean (and pretty)!

[quote=Thinthondiel;625928]I would assume that by "bathing" they mean a full body wash, especially since they actually named a weekday as "washing day"... in Scandinavian languages, Saturday is still called Lørdag/Lördag (from Laugardag - washing day).

I've read that Vikings made soap that they used for washing their body and for bleaching their hair - so they did use soap. They also combed their hair every day, apparently. The fact that they were so concerned with the appearance of their hair leads me to believe that they probably washed it when they bathed - i.e. once a week. But it's just guessing, of course.

ETA: Sorry I couldn't be of any help, btw.

Vikings were very clean! And the men took great care of their hair and beard. Middleeastern Noblemen wrote about them that 'they sometimes looked disgustingly filthy when they travelled (about Traders), but as soon as they got a chance they would clean up greatly, trim their hair and beards or even shave fully'. They bathed in a big round wooden tub (Zuber in German) and yes it was a full bath since that was more convenient anyway. Since many vikings traded with other countries or even travelled the world (mostly east) to trade there, they also had all sorts of cosmetics and beauty items at hand. Many swedish men and women for example actually used black eye pencil to line their eyes. Even rice powder appearently made its way from Asia.

My reenactment - I always kept it this way: Be as authentic as possible, and stick to the fabriques, colors material available back then. But that does not necessarily mean, that you have to stick to what a scientist dug out only either. Just because they found one body wearing a certain shape of apron, does not mean that some women did not get the idea to change it a bit, shorter, wider, rounder..etc., same with shorter sleeves, longer sleeves etc.
So I always try to add the missing pieces with realistic imagination. People do the same thing when it comes to the Dinosaurs. :D

Also: What Christians wrote about Vikings and what lets say Oriental Travellers, Noblemen etc. wrote greatly differs.
Too many christians were trying to portray vikings as the classic heathen barbarian.

I think someone meant the medieval photo album I have here at LHC when they reffered to styles.
I have managed the knot bun with an elastic and a stick ;)

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/NAGAI-KAMI/FRISUREN/IMG_1453.jpg

If you want to be die hard authentic, tie the hair with a leather string, then knot the bun and then stick the pin through the bun and the string.

This is my viking (bone) hair pin: http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/NAGAI-KAMI/HP%20Inhalte/haarschmuck/IMG_0118.jpg

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/NAGAI-KAMI/HP%20Inhalte/haarschmuck/IMG_0126.jpg

(I sold a lot of these on medieval fairs...people really love the customizable dangle.) But yeah...a pin like that would be perfect for the style :)

Oh and excuse my english today...long day =_=

[Thinthondiel]

They bathed in a big round wooden tub (Zuber in German) and yes it was a full bath since that was more convenient anyway.

Yeah, I imagined that they might have bathed in wooden tubs like that. I hadn't heard the German word for it before, but we call it "stamp" (not pronunced like the English word stamp, though). When you say "big"... do you know how big we're talking? Because I know that when my mum was a kid, they used to bathe in wooden tubs in which a grown person would have to bend their legs to sit in, but we also use the word "stamp" for big, wooden outdoors hot tubs (with room for several people).

[GlassEyes]

That's quite possible about Vikings. I'm not a Norse scholar. I specialize in 12th century France. The bathing-on-Easter thing would really only hold with Christians, and that would only sporadically mean a Norse population. (And not all Norse were 'Vikings'--whatever they are) I can speak with great certainty, however, about the bathing habits of medieval England and France.

I think we have to consider what we define to be 'bathing'. The site says that they bathed once a week--does that mean a full body wash? Does that mean that they used soap? Does 'bathing' include washing the hair? One thing I've learned in translating medieval documents is that you can't presume you know the definitions of words, even if you think you do! (The classic Norse one is what really is a 'berserker'?)

I'm not trying to finesse or wiggle out of my initial statement--that was an educated guess based on what I know for sure about my peeps trying to help solve a hair problem. But I do think maybe we shouldn't jump to conclusions and start making fun of me like I'm a complete idiot based on an article on the web that doesn't use primary source texts in their original language. Just because you read it on teh interwebz doesn't make it true.

I am so sorry I even tried to help.


HK
Uh. I fail to see how my post was mocking you. I think you might've gone a -little- overboard there. I was just mentioning the discrepancies between your post and the linked site. Note I said 'may', I didn't say that you are totally wrong, or that it was impossible for you to be right. I'm far from an expert either, and there are some references givne in old norse on the site, but that doens' make it correct. Granted, they have cited sources, and you don't.

Do not accuse me of being rude when I barely made a one sentence comment on it. A humorous one at that.

[Renbirde]

(Mabye this pony just doesn't like me.)

I made up the pony and pinned it with two of the "Good Day" style pins (my others are AWOL, long story). I whacked away at the computer for a while, then sorted some papers, harassed my dog, walked around, skipped and ran a little, and crawled around on the floor. All this took about an hour.

One of the hairpins fell out the first time I bent over. That never happens! So I stuck it back in. Times 3. Plus all the times I poked them in deeper so they didn't actually fall out. Really strange.

The before and after pictures:

http://i39.tinypic.com/2cp29e1.jpg

It didn't come out all the way, but it was loose enough that it was thumping across my shoulder blades and could get stuck hanging over my shoulder. That's about eight fingers worth of slack, which I found Rather Annoying.

If I test this again, I will make sure the knot is neater and the pins are properly set.

[gmdiaz]

I love the way those "simple" knots look.

I haven't managed to keep one in my hair for even five seconds!

I think if I were to try this again, I'd get one of the small (2" long) leather hair gloves with ties and scrunch it up tightly UNDERNEATH the knot and cinch it down.

I am thinking that the knot would drop down to basically cover the hair glove, hiding it, but would keep the knot from falling out.

Not sure though, maybe the knot would just unwrap over the glove. Might have to lace the knot TO the hair glove. lol

Has anyone tried this?

[Renbirde]

I think if I were to try this again, I'd get one of the small (2" long) leather hair gloves with ties and scrunch it up tightly UNDERNEATH the knot and cinch it down.

I am thinking that the knot would drop down to basically cover the hair glove, hiding it, but would keep the knot from falling out.

Not sure though, maybe the knot would just unwrap over the glove. Might have to lace the knot TO the hair glove. lol

Has anyone tried this?
Not I, but I don't have any hair gloves. I'm seriously considering making some though. ;)

[Demetrue]

What about using a clear elastic hair holder to make the first ponytail, then tie the knot around the hair elastic and put the tail through. You could do it so the elastic part is hidden underneath the knot. Then you could always add leather ties as well ...

[Demetrue]

You can wrap the tail length twice around the elastic, then pull it through like you are knotting a man's tie.

[Renbirde]

[Emi's amazing Viking knowledge]
:inlove: Thank you!

[Arctic_Mama]

Looks great, my only holding advice would be using leather and a large needle and sewing the hair like one would for italian hair taping. Little else is as secure.

[Dianyla]

I really like how it looks, and it shortens my hair by about a foot, which is also nice, but I can't get the blighted thing to stay! The knot starts sliding down the tail in less than a minute!
Your natural hairtype may simply be too straight and slippery to reliably do this kind of style. My hair is fairly coarse and textured and an unsecured knot will always slip down to about mid-back on me.

I wear two different styles based on the Viking Knot. The first is what I call a bunnytail, where I make the knot right against my scalp and use a hairstick or hairfork to pin the knot to my scalp.

The second is the knotted braid, which works really well to shorten my braid up to a less cumbersome length. The bumps of the braid provide added traction and the knot stays high securely.

[Noortje]

What about something like this?
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=14032&highlight=elling
I know... wrong time, but geographically correct? :p-And you do get the knot-like-construction at the back. Very comfy to wear and stays all day (with a sick jammed in). It's one of my favorite do's... :D

[enfys]

You can wrap the tail length twice around the elastic, then pull it through like you are knotting a man's tie.

That sounds awesome! I'm going to try that one day!

This is a style I've never been able to master no matter how hard I try. I'd probably cheat and hide some wire in there if I needed it to stay haha.

Stitching it probably a more hair safe option though.

[Renbirde]

The second is the knotted braid, which works really well to shorten my braid up to a less cumbersome length. The bumps of the braid provide added traction and the knot stays high securely.
Didn't work originally, but my hair was full of cones then. :/ I may have to try again.

[vindo]

Yeah, I imagined that they might have bathed in wooden tubs like that. I hadn't heard the German word for it before, but we call it "stamp" (not pronunced like the English word stamp, though). When you say "big"... do you know how big we're talking? Because I know that when my mum was a kid, they used to bathe in wooden tubs in which a grown person would have to bend their legs to sit in, but we also use the word "stamp" for big, wooden outdoors hot tubs (with room for several people).

I have sat in one big enough for 16 people on Julfest :p But I think it simply depends on the space available and wealthyness of the family. But I also assume you were able to stretch out your legs, wood was not hard to get so I think for most viking households a bigger tub should not have been a problem.
Some excavations showed the outlines of houses and scientists could see where the fireplace might have been and also found a fairly large circle that could have been where the "tub" was placed.

Renebirde have you tried my method with a hair stick and tie?
I also find an inside out bun to be more secure than a regular knot..

[Renbirde]

Renebirde have you tried my method with a hair stick and tie?
I also find an inside out bun to be more secure than a regular knot..
It's in progress. :D I put it in, and I'm going to run some errands and see how it fares.

[Magdalene]

hair scroos!

[Demetrue]

I had another idea - braid a small section underneath the rest of the hair, starting at the nape of the neck, then use it as an anchor for your elastic or leather lace to secure the knot.

[Renbirde]

I had another idea - braid a small section underneath the rest of the hair, starting at the nape of the neck, then use it as an anchor for your elastic or leather lace to secure the knot.
Ooh! That is a good idea!

[Renbirde]

This idea came from Emichiee, but I modified it slightly.

I pulled my hair back into a low pony and fastened it with an elastic-- I can't find any leather cording in my house all of a sudden. *rolls eyes* Then I did the usual knot. I stuck a chopstick through the knot from about the 2 to the 8 o'clock position.

It barely slid down, but the knot itself got looser. About an hour and a half after I put it in, I pulled it out because the knot was getting messy. I hear tell that it looked good through the dissolution-- just before I took it down, I was told that it looked like the pony was loosely wrapped or draped prettily, and that it looked coolest when the knot was "huge." The ponytail holder never showed. The style is really fun, but not quite what I need for this venture... It'd be perfect for a concert or something. I'll remember it. :)

However, I think the loosening of the knot would be almost completely eliminated if I braided the tail. Putting the hairstick into the knot a bit farther from my head so that more hair was trapped behind it against my head might also help.

[Igor]

This is probably silly, but, I'll go anyway:

Vikings, and all medieval people, really, weren't so much into the whole bathing thing. The average medieval Christian bathed once a year--right before Easter. The reason I bring up this unpleasant factoid is that the problem with your hair slipping might be that your hair is too darned clean! If that's your hair, it is really clean (and pretty)!


Actually an English monk at the time complained that “Vikings seduced English women because they bathed a lot and cared too much for their appearance” :wink: Bad vikings!

[Wavelength]

Hmm, don't know if this has already been suggested, but have you tried a hair elastic or hairtie fastened underneath the knot? That way it might not be able to slip down.

[Angela_Rose]

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_g-Y-sqUkHKo/SlZ5ZGn_XtI/AAAAAAAALHo/ecWfIiWw6iE/s400/068.JPG

I guess 'm lucky- this will stay up all day. If I plan on being out running around, I'll slide a stick through it.
Just use an inconspicuous stick and slide it in very close to your head. That should do the trick. This is another one I'm considering for Pennsic.