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ratgirldjh
June 6th, 2009, 08:49 PM
Hi everyone!

Ever since I hennaed my hair it has been acting weird. The day before I hennaed I did a conditioning treatment with Suave TC and honey. I hennaed on dry hair with henna mixed with a little ACV and orange blossom flower water and hot water.

I also used a little of the Suave TC to wash my hair after the henna.

So - my hair was acting like it was dry - but it didn't feel dry. It felt coated - but not like henna. It was actually tangling on the ends and making little knots! My hair never does this...

So I tried to remedy this by doing CO washes instead of using my usual poo bar. I tried Suave TC and then I started using AOHR and used it quite a few times.

Then I noticed that my hair was looking even worse - it actually started looking stringy - but it felt dry. Also, it was tangling more than ever.

Finally at my wits end - I decided this must be the build-up everyone talks about.

I decided to wash my hair with an SLS shampoo a couple of times to see if it would help.

It seems to have helped! I washed 2x with Phytojoba shampoo - supposedly gentle (LOL) but for me strong enough to clarify!

So I'm hoping after this I can go back to my poo bar and swear off these conditioners.

Any ideas on if this may be true??? Or if it may have been the Suave TC/honey deep conditioner that I used before the henna?

Could it have been the ACV in my henna mix?

What could have coated my hair like this? Henna isn't supposed to feel this way - is it? I used to henna for years and I never had tangly hair EVER.

This was so unlike my hair that I just couldn't figure out what was wrong.

:confused:

Carolyn
June 6th, 2009, 09:12 PM
I don't do henna so I have no idea what my would feel like if I hennaed but Suave conditioners have always felt "waxy" to me. I've never bothered to learn what ingredients are waxes because that's just too close to studying chemistry for me :D I just know my hair often has felt waxy when I've used Suave. Maybe it's the conditioner. Have you used other conditioners and had the same results?

Fractalsofhair
June 6th, 2009, 09:24 PM
I think Suave has cones in it(Not sure), which will not be easily removed by a shampoo bar if it is real soap. Just use a SLS shampoo after you use a conditioner with them in it, and you should be fine. I like Burts Bees or Alaffia for conditioner(Alaffia is much richer), and oils work well if your hair is dry.

RancheroTheBee
June 6th, 2009, 10:00 PM
I think Suave has cones in it(Not sure), which will not be easily removed by a shampoo bar if it is real soap. Just use a SLS shampoo after you use a conditioner with them in it, and you should be fine. I like Burts Bees or Alaffia for conditioner(Alaffia is much richer), and oils work well if your hair is dry.

I think most Suave is cone-free.

But yeah, I just had the same problem. Henna, same conditioner, never happened before. I clarified with a shampoo bar - we'll see how it goes.

Fractalsofhair
June 6th, 2009, 10:02 PM
Ah, it must be Pantene that has the cones in it? One or the other that's known for those?

OP, to help with tangles, I suggest oil for your hair!

teela1978
June 6th, 2009, 10:14 PM
It kinda sounds like protein buildup to me. The henna works as a protein treatment in addition to coloring. Not sure what the suave tc is, or if it has any added protein, or which shampoo bar you use or if it has protein. Anyway, I'd avoid protein in products and see if that helps.

Elphie
June 6th, 2009, 10:29 PM
Suave TC is tropical coconut I presume. It is cone free, but not protien free. That may be where your problem is.

ratgirldjh
June 7th, 2009, 10:44 AM
Well y'all thanks...
I think it may be a protein build up.
What removes protein???

I think the SLS shampoo helped... I will just stay away from Suave TC and use my poo bar and see if it is ok. Because all this did start after the henna and then the Suave Tropical Coconut and it does have silk protein in it.

Fractalsofhair
June 7th, 2009, 10:45 AM
Yeah, since Henna helps fill your hair in a similar way to protein, your hair might not need it now.

teela1978
June 7th, 2009, 10:51 AM
I'd just find a different suave for CO washing (assuming that's how you wash your hair) for a while, and remember to avoid protein after henna in the future. It should be fine after a few protein-free washes, whatever your method.

ratgirldjh
June 8th, 2009, 01:10 PM
I'd just find a different suave for CO washing (assuming that's how you wash your hair) for a while, and remember to avoid protein after henna in the future. It should be fine after a few protein-free washes, whatever your method.

Thanks! Now it feels rather stripped and how do I know if I got out all the extra protein? Do I have to worry about this?

It is still tangling more than usual and it feels frizzy (LOL) I NEVER had tangled or frizzy hair in my life before this!!! And I never used conditioner until just recently.

So it had to be the build up from the conditioners. :(
I loved CO washing - but now I'm trying to stay away from it. It is a quick fix for my hair I know that - but in the long run my hair hates conditioners. When I used either soap or my favorite poo bar I had no tangles and my hair was soft and smooth.

Guess I shouldn't have tried to fix something that wasn't broken :D

How long do you think it will take my hair to go back to normal? I usually wash only once a week - and I washed it with the SLS shampoo and then my poo bar 2 days in a row :trainwreck:

So it is still very dry and crunchy feeling because I didn't use conditioner - so I don't know how to tell if I got all the build up or protein out....

Morningglory
June 8th, 2009, 01:17 PM
Did you have any chemical treatments on your hair like old color or bleach?

Anje
June 8th, 2009, 01:36 PM
Yeah, Suave Tropical Coconut has enough protein in it to give me nasty tangles and dryness after a while, too. Henna also makes my hair feel a bit dry and stiff, but it's different.

You might do well to continue with the CO washing, but just switch to something else. Many of the Suave Naturals line doesn't have protein, and I don't think any have cones. (Lavendar, Waterlily & Aloe, and the Tangerine/Peach one are protein-free, I think. They've never caused problems for me.) Or try a different brand. Lots of folks here love VO5, but a lot of those have protein, so you need to read labels.

Honestly, to get back to normal quicker, I think you need protein-free moisture. So do try to use some conditioner, or your conditioner/honey mix. It will almost certainly help.

ratgirldjh
June 8th, 2009, 01:47 PM
Did you have any chemical treatments on your hair like old color or bleach?

NO - I have nothing on my hair and I used to NEVER use conditioner and only did herbal or poo bar washes with ACV rinses - or water only.

I'm also wondering if it could have been the honey/conditioner treatment that I used before I hennaed?

Well, it feels tangly and weird still. I am afraid to use any conditioner at all now - as Suave TC is the only one that I have tried that I am for sure not allergic to - and Honeysuckle Rose seems to be building up too...

Do you think if I just wait and don't wash for a while that it will eventually feel better?
Or do I need to do something now?

It is tangling and sort of velcroing together - really seems like build up to me.

Should I put some baking soda (shudder) into some protein free conditioner - maybe the vanilla floral one (doesn't seem too perfumy i hope :D) and see if that helps? Or will that just strip my hair further?

Or maybe I should do a overnight heaving oiling with VCO and wash it out with my poo bar?

Thanks for the help!

ratgirldjh
June 8th, 2009, 01:56 PM
Hi - I just wondered if anyone knows off-hand whether or not VO5 strawberries and cream has protein? They no longer make the Suave Vanilla Floral and I'm afraid to try any of the other scents because I was very allergic to several others. I was also allergic to VO5 Mint Tea Therapy and even White Rain Tropical Coconut :(

So now I'm kind of scared to venture into buying conditioners and trying them...

I have tried the Strawberries and Cream once and the scent pretty much overwhelmed me and so I never tried it again.... Maybe I should just give up on CO washing for the time being... My hair really did like my poo bar and the ACV rinses...

teela1978
June 8th, 2009, 02:05 PM
Hi - I just wondered if anyone knows off-hand whether or not VO5 strawberries and cream has protein? They no longer make the Suave Vanilla Floral and I'm afraid to try any of the other scents because I was very allergic to several others. I was also allergic to VO5 Mint Tea Therapy and even White Rain Tropical Coconut :(

So now I'm kind of scared to venture into buying conditioners and trying them...

I have tried the Strawberries and Cream once and the scent pretty much overwhelmed me and so I never tried it again.... Maybe I should just give up on CO washing for the time being... My hair really did like my poo bar and the ACV rinses...

I'm not sure about the ingredients of the strawberries and cream, but the 'and cream' part makes me think it would have milk proteins in it. If the 'poo bar works well for you, I'd just stick with that.

Kirin
June 8th, 2009, 02:19 PM
My hair was always dry, weird and tangly after using henna...... #1 reason I stopped.

Anje
June 8th, 2009, 03:49 PM
VO5 Moisture Milks Strawberries and Cream ingredients...
Water (Aqua); Cetyl Alcohol; Stearyl Alcohol; Stearalkonium Chloride; Glycine Soja (Soy Bean) Seed Extract; Fragaria Vesca (Strawberry) Leaf Extract; Steareth-21; Glyceryl Stearate; Octoxynol-9; Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C); Thiamin HCL (Vitamin B1); Retinyl Palmitate (Vitamin A); Tocopheryl Acetate (Vitamin E); Panthenol (Pro-Vitamin B5); Propylene Glycol; Disodium EDTA; DMDM Hydantoin; Fragrance (Parfum); Red 33 (CI 17200)

I don't see any obvious protein -- looks good.

teela1978
June 8th, 2009, 04:48 PM
Hmmm... I would think soybean seed extract would be full of protein... I'm not really sure though.

ratgirldjh
June 22nd, 2009, 02:21 PM
I'm thinking about trying the new VO5 Blackberry Tea and Sage one. and I may get up the nerve to try the Strawberry and cream one again... I don't think I was allergic to it - I think it just smelled more than I was used to at the time... I'll post my results. Thanks :)

Arctic
June 22nd, 2009, 02:36 PM
I'm thinking about trying the new VO5 Blackberry Tea and Sage one. and I may get up the nerve to try the Strawberry and cream one again... I don't think I was allergic to it - I think it just smelled more than I was used to at the time... I'll post my results. Thanks :)


If you haven't already seen this article (http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/278612/the_fine_art_of_protein_and_moisture.html?cat=69), it's the best one I have seen about protein/moisture balance of hairs, and should answer at least some of your questions :) HTH!

PS. Many people have noticed that B5 (panthenol) has similar effect to their hair as proteins.

Deborah
June 22nd, 2009, 03:23 PM
Since you have clarified, I doubt that the conditioner is the problem, or it would be fully solved. Maybe your hair just doesn't take to henna? Some folks find that it is not a good choice for them.

I hope you find a good solution soon. :)

ratgirldjh
June 22nd, 2009, 03:31 PM
Since you have clarified, I doubt that the conditioner is the problem, or it would be fully solved. Maybe your hair just doesn't take to henna? Some folks find that it is not a good choice for them.

I hope you find a good solution soon. :)

Geez - I am hoping that isn't the case - LOL

BUT - I will say I hennaed my roots recently and didn't use the suave tropical coconut afterwards and didn't have the weird build up. I have used the suave since then and still don't have it.

I am beginning to think that the problem was me mixing my henna with quite a bit of ACV. I remember that if I used a large concentration of ACV in my after poo bar rinses that my hair looked coated and stringy - hmmmm

ratgirldjh
June 22nd, 2009, 03:40 PM
If you haven't already seen this article (http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/278612/the_fine_art_of_protein_and_moisture.html?cat=69), it's the best one I have seen about protein/moisture balance of hairs, and should answer at least some of your questions :) HTH!

PS. Many people have noticed that B5 (panthenol) has similar effect to their hair as proteins.

Thanks so much! I do think my hair had protein overload. It was not stretchy at all!

teela1978
June 23rd, 2009, 12:26 PM
I often wonder how good 'clarifying' really is with regards to removing protein/cones. I use an SLS shampoo every time I wash, and to be honest I need a week or two to notice a difference if I switch to a cone-free conditioner. Same with protein. There's no way one shampoo is going to strip off all excess protein. I think it's just something you have to wait out. Even when I was COing, if I waited long enough the anti-tangle effects of cones would go away after 10 or so washes. I can't imagine proteins being all that different.

I'd find a washing method that works and is low protein and stick with it for a while. Things should improve over time.