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girlcat36
June 6th, 2009, 07:45 PM
As some of you know, my hair sheds a lot. I post about it alot!:rolleyes:
I have very fine hair. So I'm wondering if I have more hair than I think. If I have fine hair, and a 3" ponytail, do I have more individual hairs than someone with a 3" pony who has coarse hair? :confused:

In other words, do I shed more because I have more hair than I think?

Lamb
June 6th, 2009, 07:57 PM
It definitely takes more strands of fine hair for 3" circumference than it does of coarse hair. I know what you mean - so unfair for us fine haired folks, with the same number of follicles, we still end up with less hair! :p

About the shedding. I don't think shedding "normality" depends on the exact amount of hair strands a person has. It is roughly the same - c. 100 hairs per day. Shedding more is only normal or natural if, for instance, you have had a baby and you did not shed at all during pregnancy (it happens).

IMO, if your hair does not reproduce itself at the rate it is falling out, that's not normal, regardless of the actual amount of hair you have.

girlcat36
June 6th, 2009, 08:04 PM
I seem to lose about 100 strands a day, sometimes more. But I always have lots of baby hairs growing in at different stages.

So maybe I will just stop worrying about it!

Morningglory
June 6th, 2009, 08:28 PM
Are you still using monistat? Were you applying it to your whole scalp? If so are you on an on or off cycle? This could affect your shedding.

You have a 3" ponytail!:shocked:

Speckla
June 6th, 2009, 08:41 PM
Hey, curlies seem to shed a little more anyway. I know that I do 100 or more hairs per day.

EdG
June 6th, 2009, 08:44 PM
My theory is that the total length shedded per day is relatively constant. People with short terminal lengths tend to shed a large number of short hairs, whereas people with long terminal lengths tend to shed a small number of long hairs. I computed that the average person grows a total of 100 inches of hair per day. A person who sheds 100 hairs a day would have an average shed length of one foot.

I'm wondering if people's observations support this theory. :confused:
Ed

HotRag
June 7th, 2009, 02:42 AM
My theory is that the total length shedded per day is relatively constant. People with short terminal lengths tend to shed a large number of short hairs, whereas people with long terminal lengths tend to shed a small number of long hairs. I computed that the average person grows a total of 100 inches of hair per day. A person who sheds 100 hairs a day would have an average shed length of one foot.

I'm wondering if people's observations support this theory. :confused:
Ed
I count shedded hairs, have a table and a diagram with diffent data :D
I also started to save shedded hairs.

Observations:
I shed between 23 and 30 hairs per day (including wash day shedding).
4/5 of them are as long as my hair (33 inch or slightly shorter).
All have bulbs (yey, no more damage that break hairs).
Since most shedded hairs tend to be as long as my hair, I can't tell the average shedded hair length...
I do not know the total amount of hairs I have got, I have all from fine to coarse hairs, so maybe M is average.

I shed 10-20 hairs per day, and 62-95 hairs on washing day.
The minimum shed week for now, is 165 hairs, and max is 225.

The longest my hair has been, is 50 inch, and it then was gaining length as fast as usual. Shedded hairs then, was similar to now, also with a high procent of total length hairs. Then I chopped it :rolleyes:

Since I don't know how many in total I may have, I can't calculate on my own hair.
I don't even remember what is the average amount for all people. Is it 60 000-80 000? I get 62 500 from your numbers, if it grows 0.4 mm/day (can't think of it all in inches...). These numbers give abput the same average length on shedded hairs as you (~30 cm = ~1 foot)

EdG
June 7th, 2009, 07:12 AM
I get 62 500 from your numbers, if it grows 0.4 mm/day (can't think of it all in inches...). These numbers give abput the same average length on shedded hairs as you (~30 cm = ~1 foot)Your observations match mine. I have a lot of hairs that are terminal between waist and tailbone and shed 30-50 of those per day. I have a small number of really long hairs (3+ feet) and shed only about one of those per day.


I computed that the average person grows a total of 100 inches of hair per day. I meant 100 feet of hair per day. :doh:
Ed

HotRag
June 7th, 2009, 08:01 AM
Ed:
Do you have these average numbers?

Total amount of hairs: 120 000
Shed per day: 100

Growth per day and hair: 0.4 mm = 0.04 cm = 0,015748... inch
Growth total per day: 0.04 cm * 120 000 = 4 800 cm = 1889,763779... inch = 157.48... feet

This gives me
Average age per hair: 120 000 / 100 = 1 200 days
Average length per natural shedded hair: 1 200 * 0.04 cm = 48 cm = 18,8976... inch

This is not very long, or very long life for a hair, or?
Am I missing a number or a constant? I have brain fog :( (I am not joking.)

Must go vote for EU parlament now, so I will rush off without reading through enough. :D

Heidi_234
June 7th, 2009, 08:14 AM
EdG, it seems like a nice theory, but following that logic - a person with, say, x inches long hair, sheds 100/x hairs a day. Then that same person cut his hair to half of the length. So what, now he sheds twice as much?

EdG
June 7th, 2009, 08:16 AM
Hotrag, the missing factor is that not all hairs are in the active growth phase. Spidermom pointed this out in a previous thread.

From my calculations:

(100,000 hairs) * (0.5 inches/month) / (30 days/month) / (12 inches/foot) * (0.75 fraction in growth phase) = (100 feet/day)

The 0.75 fraction in the growth phase is very approximate. I think this fraction may be much higher for people with really long terminal lengths. :)
Ed

EdG
June 7th, 2009, 08:19 AM
EdG, it seems like a nice theory, but following that logic - a person with, say, x inches long hair, sheds 100/x hairs a day. Then that same person cut his hair to half of the length. So what, now he sheds twice as much?Heidi_234, the relationship between shed length and number of shed strands applies only if the shed rate and growth rate are in equilibrium. It applies to people who don't cut and have reached their natural terminal length. :)
Ed

HotRag
June 7th, 2009, 08:33 AM
Hotrag, the missing factor is that not all hairs are in the active growth phase. Spidermom pointed this out in a previous thread.

From my calculations:

(100,000 hairs) * (0.5 inches/month) / (30 days/month) / (12 inches/foot) * (0.75 fraction in growth phase) = (100 feet/day)

The 0.75 fraction in the growth phase is very approximate. I think this fraction may be much higher for people with really long terminal lengths. :)
Ed
Aha, I did not think about that :o

Estimated growing phase should be (maybe) 75 % of a hairs life time then, if I understood this correct.

I think I heard that in mail baldness, the growing fase becomes shorter and shorter, until it's zero and the follicle dies.

Since I do not know my total amount of hairs, it feels meaningless to estimate my terminal length, but I think I shed less hairs than average. It should be able to grow longer than average.

EdG
June 7th, 2009, 08:41 AM
Since I do not know my total amount of hairs, it feels meaningless to estimate my terminal length, but I think I shed less hairs than average. It should be able to grow longer than average.I think the calculation is very approximate since I don't know my total number of hairs or the fraction in the growth phase. The result (100 feet/day) is easy to remember. :cool:
Ed

marialena
June 7th, 2009, 08:44 AM
I seem to lose about 100 strands a day, sometimes more. But I always have lots of baby hairs growing in at different stages.

So maybe I will just stop worrying about it!

I had read once in a site ( that I can't remember now which this site was.. sorry it was long time ago), that hair every 7-8 years renew their selves.
They start shedding very fast and they stop growing for two or three months. That happens once every 7-8 years. After that hair start growing again, and new born hair start grow to replace those that had been lost.
Now as I have written here, in another thread, I had for a period a massive lose of hair. That was part of a health problem that I had, but I was shedding so much that this health problem that I had didn't seem as a good enough reason for such shedding.
My hair didn't grow longer as well and I was loosing far more than 100 hair per day.

Searching in google about this I found this information, about the hair that renew every 7 years. ( sorryyy.. I can't find the link.. I really don't remember where I had found it because I was searching with a meta search engine :().

Now my hair are growing very fast and I don't shed at all. I hardly loose 5 hair per day. But my hair have two lengths. Theres the full body of my hair which is in currently in chin length and the rest who are in waist length with all the inbetween lengths of course. My hair are not broken, though they look sometimes like this, I have checked the ends and are just tampered ( is this the right word?) no white dots no split ends.
I have the impression that your hair are in this phase.. That somehow and for some unknown reason, ( because though I searched I havn't found an ecplanation or proof that this renewal thing indeed happens) seems that your hair are in a total renew phase now .. the good news are that for sure this will not last for ever.
I think that instead of getting stressed it would be good just to relax and let it happen for as long as it takes. ( taking care in between of your health generally). In any case, I can tell you from my own experience that you are not going to become bald and then the new grown hair will look much healthier and stronger. :)

Heidi_234
June 7th, 2009, 09:35 AM
Heidi_234, the relationship between shed length and number of shed strands applies only if the shed rate and growth rate are in equilibrium. It applies to people who don't cut and have reached their natural terminal length. :)
Ed
Okay that makes sense. But it means that it doesn't really apply on Hotrag, since she's far from terminal and had cut her hair less than 7 years ago(?) (assuming that's the terminal time for her).

HotRag
June 7th, 2009, 10:38 AM
Okay that makes sense. But it means that it doesn't really apply on Hotrag, since she's far from terminal and had cut her hair less than 7 years ago(?) (assuming that's the terminal time for her).
It does not apply on me as the average length on dying hairs, but I have had 50 inch long hair, that still mostly shed hairs of total length.
Since I easily could thicken the ends by then, I assume I have a terminal length that are longer than 50 inch.

And, if my shed of 20-30 hairs per day is not much, I should have longer terminal, than one who sheds 100 hairs per day, if I have the same amount of hairs on my head.
If I have 20-30 % of the 100 shedded hairs per day person's total amount of hairs, we should have the same terminal, if we have same growth speed and growth phase.
(Hope this is correct from my fogged brain and thinking in not my own language.)

I use to simplify it and think total of 10 hairs, and 1 shedded per day, compared to 2 shedded per day and so on. Using growths like 1 cm per day. Then it is easier to get the picture.

Honey39
June 7th, 2009, 11:43 AM
Two things - well, three, because first of all, Girlcat, you have absolutely beautiful hair! :)

Firstly, I kind of like shedding regularly, because your hair does have to shed. I worry sometimes that if I go through a patch of not shedding, then it will thin drastically when too many hairs suddenly reach their shelf life! I like regular amounts of shedding myself, so that my hair is in a constant cycle of new growth/growth/shedding. So embrace shedding! (Which is also why I am wary personally about the monistat craze...)

Secondly: I started a big shed about a month ago after a traumatic event. I didn't mind too much, but I did start taking kelp, my go-to hair remedy. The shed stopped *immediately* - from coming out in handfuls, to barely losing two or three hairs in the shower. Weird, but true!

girlcat36
June 7th, 2009, 05:32 PM
MorningGlory--I am not using Monistat right now. I have been a heavy shedder for about 20 years, nothing seems to have made a diffence.
I have also been anemic/borderline anemic for that time. That's what I am going to blame this on! I take iron twice a day, but just can't seem to get that red blood cell count into normal range. Actually, I have been making a concerted effort since February to take a lot of iron, B12, and Folic acid. I have a hematologist.
Wonder how long it takes to build up my red blood cells? My last CBC was last week with a low RBC and low HCT.

Ed and HotRag--your math skills boggle my mind!

Honey39--thank you! :)

HotRag
June 7th, 2009, 11:59 PM
MorningGlory--I am not using Monistat right now. I have been a heavy shedder for about 20 years, nothing seems to have made a diffence.
I have also been anemic/borderline anemic for that time. That's what I am going to blame this on! I take iron twice a day, but just can't seem to get that red blood cell count into normal range. Actually, I have been making a concerted effort since February to take a lot of iron, B12, and Folic acid. I have a hematologist.
Wonder how long it takes to build up my red blood cells? My last CBC was last week with a low RBC and low HCT.
Have you tried different iron supplements?

I do not have the words (in English) for the different supplements, but there are different kind of iron (different in how it is bound in it's molecule). The different kinds will be absorbed more or less compared to each other.
Some thinks that iron drink supplement is the best. Those usually has a lot of other things in them besides iron.
Vegetarian diet can give not enough iron.

Of course, I don't know what you know about supplements or iron, so don't take the above as I am sure what you know or what you eat. :o

girlcat36
June 8th, 2009, 01:33 PM
HotRag, nobody told me I was anemic until about 4 years ago, when I switched doctors. Then I was told to just take a 65 mg ferrous sulfate once a day. I began to have a lot of medical problems 2 years ago. This is when I got some of my medical records back to 1988; my specialists needed to see what my blood counts looked like over the years.
Why no one ever told me I was anemic---I have no idea! But the hairloss started in the late 80's, coinciding with the anemia.

So yes, you are right, there are different kinds of iron. Found that out online, because no doctor ever told me. In February I switched from ferrous sulfate to iron glycinate(also threw in B12/folic acid). The ferrous sulfate seemed to do nothing, but the with the iron glycinate there has been a teensy improvement(but still below normal levels).
I had heavy menstrual bleeding for years as well. I often thought this to be the cause of my anemia, so in January I had endometrial ablation to stop my periods. My doctor said I could throw my iron pills away, cause I wouldn't need them anymore. NOT!
The type of anemia I have is macrocytic, if that means anything to you.

Okay, that was a lot of information, more than you needed to know!

I guess the point of my thread was that I shed alot, but I proabably have more hair than I think because it is very fine hair, so I should not worry as much about the amount of hair being shed. :)

HotRag
June 8th, 2009, 02:45 PM
girlcat36, I had not heard about macrocytic anemia before. Nor microcytic...

A quick googling tells me that macrocytic anemia is due to lack B12/folat (and that strictly vegetarian diet or celiaki, amongst other reasons, can give this).
Microcytic is due to lack in iron.
It could also be a combo the info says.

But, this is what I found now. I have no real knowledge in this.

Could it be the B12/folat that made an (teensy) improvement? I have heard that it can take rather large doses of B12 if there are lack of it - to get normal levels.

But(!), of course I am just speculating, because I have just googled a bit.

And I know about doctors not telling me what I need to know, or not giving the best medicine when there are several.
I have also begged to get Borreliose (Lyme disease) tested, but it took several years to get that test. Doctors telling me I was hypochondriac and so on. Then "oooops, you have Borreliose". Then I got medicine for early discovered Lyme with mild symptoms. O_o

girlcat36
June 8th, 2009, 07:58 PM
Yes, macrocytic anemia is caused by either alcoholism, or B12 deficiency, or folic acid deficiency. We can rule out the alcoholism! LOL

Although I did not exhibit clinically low levels of folic/B12, I began taking a supplement last fall during my short lived vegan stint. I saw my hematologist a few months later. I was no longer vegan, but still taking the B12/folic acid to finish up what I had bought. My macrocytosis had improved ever so slightly, so she said to continue it even though clinically I was not deficient, and it did not make sense to her.

I did my own research, and checked my labs. My folic acid level was 24--in normal range, according to my doc---but from what I have found out online, it is not ideal for holding on to hair. For hair health folic acid level should be about 65-70.

Sorry about your misdiagnosis!
I've had a few of those---one, no--make that two, that nearly killed me, and cost me much. I never exhibit the 'classic' symptoms of anything. I am always the medical oddball!

HotRag
June 12th, 2009, 07:39 AM
Although I did not exhibit clinically low levels of folic/B12, I began taking a supplement last fall during my short lived vegan stint. I saw my hematologist a few months later. I was no longer vegan, but still taking the B12/folic acid to finish up what I had bought. My macrocytosis had improved ever so slightly, so she said to continue it even though clinically I was not deficient, and it did not make sense to her.
You could maybe have a sub clinical lack. Maybe some need more of certain things. Also, what is in the blood is not always what gets where it does it's job.

About B12 I have heard that people have gotten better from eating B12, but it could not be measured from measuring B12 but homocystein (I think is the word).

Body is so complex shudder:

GlassEyes
June 12th, 2009, 09:44 AM
Hey, curlies seem to shed a little more anyway. I know that I do 100 or more hairs per day.
It's more like we just don't lose hair throughout the day. With straight hair, it falls out constantly. Curly hair holds onto it until it's ready to wash, usually, thus seeming like we shed like crazy.

That said, girlcat, yes, if your hair is as fine as I think it is, you must have more hair to have a 3in circumference. o-o