Soapnuts not working.....

[Lile]

Oh,it's soooo bad.

I'm trying hard to find the right dilution,but 1.it dries out my hair,and scalp
2. it leaves a greasy creamy powder film on my scalp and hair.



Anybody with the same experiences?
I tried it with ACV,without ACV,with lemon,without.
The strong dilution(3nuts,first liquid)was good for cleaning,but too drying.
The weak ones left me with that strange feeling on the scalp,and that strange mixture of dirt and stuff.

Maybe I should just use something else.

My scalp and hair are normal,maybe on the dryer side.The ends are definetely dry.

[spidermom]

I can recommend CWC (coat length with conditioner, wash scalp with diluted shampp, rinse, condition again).

[Heidi_234]

My scalp is very dry. I used 4 soapnuts soaked overnight in a 300 ml cup (or so). I never found it drying. I don't remember any coated feel to it. Did you use regular shampoos before? Maybe you're not used to the feel of washing hair with something that does strip it of it's natural oils and therefore the wierd feeling.
Also, did you used conditioner after the soapnuts? If so, maybe that's why you hair feel dried out, maybe it needs more conditioning than soapnuts might provide. Some people don't need conditioner (like Millie, our soapnut pioneer) so there's no mention of it in the recipe. I used to condition my hair after soapnuts as my hair can't go without.
HTH :flower:

[Deborah]

You can buy the powdered form of soapnuts, called Aritha or Reetha at any Indian grocery store for quite cheap. Hesh brand is reliable. You don't need to do the long procedure many do with pre oiling, then heavy mud, etc. Instead you can put about a tablespoon into a clean squirt type bottle (like the one designed for mustard), then fill it the rest of the way up with hot water. Shake well. In the shower, with your hair wet, you squirt this muddy water substance on your scalp, and wash with it, using the whole bottle. It feels gritty and weird, but upon rinsing you will find that your hair is clean and soft. I have not used Aritha this way, as some say it is drying (just like I found whole soapnuts used in the tea form to be.)

Instead I use Skikakai, a milder cleansing herb in the same way.

I find the whole thing way easier than making the clear liquid from the whole soapnuts, etc. Plus that stuff is hard to wash with. The muddy liquid is easy and rather fun to use. You can mix in other herbs, etc., but Shikakai is a good place to start, and works fine just by itself. I follow up with a citric acid rinse (I have very hard water) and I'm done. Some may use a conditioner if they find it necessary. There are conditioning herbs you can add in with the Shikakai instead.

Good luck with whatever you try!

[Lile]

My scalp is very dry. I used 4 soapnuts soaked overnight in a 300 ml cup (or so). I never found it drying. I don't remember any coated feel to it. Did you use regular shampoos before? Maybe you're not used to the feel of washing hair with something that does strip it of it's natural oils and therefore the wierd feeling.
Also, did you used conditioner after the soapnuts? If so, maybe that's why you hair feel dried out, maybe it needs more conditioning than soapnuts might provide. Some people don't need conditioner (like Millie, our soapnut pioneer) so there's no mention of it in the recipe. I used to condition my hair after soapnuts as my hair can't go without.
HTH :flower:


When I didn't use conditioner,the ends were too dry,so I need it.I use an herbal shampoo,so I know how it feels when my hair is not overcleaned...
It's more a creamy film it leaves on the roots...so irritating.
I couldn't totally remove it with ACV either.
I think I could use a more concentrated liquid ...but then the dryness.
I won't give it up so easily,I'd like to use soapnuts.The method is easy,and the most natural it can be.
But if it doesn't work,I might just switch back to my nice herbal shampoo.

[Lile]

You can buy the powdered form of soapnuts, called Aritha or Reetha at any Indian grocery store for quite cheap. Hesh brand is reliable. You don't need to do the long procedure many do with pre oiling, then heavy mud, etc. Instead you can put about a tablespoon into a clean squirt type bottle (like the one designed for mustard), then fill it the rest of the way up with hot water. Shake well. In the shower, with your hair wet, you squirt this muddy water substance on your scalp, and wash with it, using the whole bottle. It feels gritty and weird, but upon rinsing you will find that your hair is clean and soft. I have not used Aritha this way, as some say it is drying (just like I found whole soapnuts used in the tea form to be.)

Instead I use Skikakai, a milder cleansing herb in the same way.

I find the whole thing way easier than making the clear liquid from the whole soapnuts, etc. Plus that stuff is hard to wash with. The muddy liquid is easy and rather fun to use. You can mix in other herbs, etc., but Shikakai is a good place to start, and works fine just by itself. I follow up with a citric acid rinse (I have very hard water) and I'm done. Some may use a conditioner if they find it necessary. There are conditioning herbs you can add in with the Shikakai instead.

Good luck with whatever you try!

I couldn't find the powdered form of aritha,or shikakai.
So I bought a bag of whole soapnuts...
If I can't find any way to use it on my hair,I might just use it for laundry...whatever:-)
Thanks for the advices.

[Heidi_234]

When I didn't use conditioner,the ends were too dry,so I need it.I use an herbal shampoo,so I know how it feels when my hair is not overcleaned...
It's more a creamy film it leaves on the roots...so irritating.
I couldn't totally remove it with ACV either.
I think I could use a more concentrated liquid ...but then the dryness.
I won't give it up so easily,I'd like to use soapnuts.The method is easy,and the most natural it can be.
But if it doesn't work,I might just switch back to my nice herbal shampoo.
Oh okay, just making sure. :)
Do you make sure you rinse it out well? Do you massage your scalp as if normally shampooing? It could be mucilage, even though it rinses out very easily. You can try lightly oil your scalp (coconut oil/EVOO for example, and the length too, while we are at it) and see if you still get the film feeling. I washed oil oiled scalp with soapnuts with no problem.

[Lile]

Thanks Heidi!I might give it a go with oil.
It's hard to find the right proportions!
I know heavy oiling is too much for soapnuts....

I might make a rather medium strong liquid and pre oil a bit(that I usually do,but didn't try with soapnuts as I thought it might be too much oil...)

But you know...it's quite a bit of interference with the scalp...I mean putting on more oil,just to avoid overdrying...
It would be better,and more logical to use a weaker dilution and no oil.
I usually get the oil out with CO,and that works fine.Then very light scalp wash.

Hm...I think I'm still at the new members "can't find a good routine" fase...:p

[Heidi_234]

Thanks Heidi!I might give it a go with oil.
It's hard to find the right proportions!
I know heavy oiling is too much for soapnuts....

I might make a rather medium strong liquid and pre oil a bit(that I usually do,but didn't try with soapnuts as I thought it might be too much oil...)

But you know...it's quite a bit of interference with the scalp...I mean putting on more oil,just to avoid overdrying...
It would be better,and more logical to use a weaker dilution and no oil.
I usually get the oil out with CO,and that works fine.Then very light scalp wash.

Hm...I think I'm still at the new members "can't find a good routine" fase...:p
Well, it might be that the film you describe is what makes soapnuts drying for you. Light/medium oiling will prevent soapnuts from leaving that residue, thus preventing the dryness. It's all in theory though, so you'll have to try it. Traditionally, Indian women would oil their hair heavily and after a while wash it with soapnuts or shikakai mixed with conditioning herbs like amla and such. We can only learn from them. ;)
btw, just so you know, my dilution seems to be weaker than Millie's.

[mellie]

Lile, sorry you are having problems! Heidi has been giving you some good feedback from her experiences, since her hair is not as oily as mine.

Can you tell me, what is your recipe and method? You said you are only using 3 nuts? How much water is that with? Where did you get your soapnuts from (do they look like the ones in my siggy article? Or are they sticky ones? The sticky ones are much stronger.)

Also, what kind of water do you have? I have fairly hard water here that is somewhat alkaline, so that probably makes a difference.

I haven't had any problems with any kind of film on my hair. At the beginning when I was figuring out my recipe, I wasn't using enough soapnuts and my hair was greasy, but I never had any kind of film. Also, once I started using the foam method, the cleansing was much more consistent all over, than just using the liquid, which was kind of drying on the ends.

I've only had problems a few times with drying out my hair when I use it on my lengths, but if I use it only on my scalp, then it is great. Also when I haven't use limes or lemons in it, it is a little bit drying for me. For some reason limes work better than lemons for me. And as I said, since I've been doing the foam method, it's been working totally great and very consistently, whereas when I was at first just using the liquid I had problems with uneven cleansing, some parts would be greasy and other parts would be dried out. Also, when putting the foam on, I don't rub it in or anything, just wipe it on the hair and let it penetrate the scalp through my hair while I finish the rest of my showering, then rinse out (without rubbing or anything).

Also, I had never used any 'cones before I started using soapnuts, and I've never used conditioners or anything that would cause build up. I don't know what you were using before if it contained anything that might build up, if that might possibly make any difference. Also, I never oil my hair or do any rinses or anything. Soapnut foam is all that ever touches my hair. (Other than DH's fingers!) :-)

Some people just can't use them successfully, unfortunately, but they are great for laundry, or you can try selling them on here too, if you really just can't use them.

[mellie]

P.S. I just thought of something else!

The new thread on Scalp Cleansing in the Mane Forum made me think of washing only the scalp and not wetting the length at all, so the soapnut foam wouldn't be rinsed through the lengths at all. So I experimented with that this morning!

After applying the soapnut foam to my scalp, I tied back my lengths in a bun and washed my scalp only in the sink. What's nice is that it dried faster since the lengths weren't thoroughly wet, and also the soapnut foam didn't get rinsed through the lengths at all. So maybe that might work better for you since it wouldn't be as drying?

I just took some pics so you can see how it worked:

http://home.comcast.net/~ttudek/pwpimages/DSCN2645.jpghttp://home.comcast.net/~ttudek/pwpimages/DSCN2644.jpg

As a comparison, here is the other day when I rinsed in the shower:

http://home.comcast.net/~ttudek/pwpimages/DSCN2614.jpg

I don't know if there's much of a difference for me (my hair is so oily though!) but I did like that it dried so much faster and used less water! :D

[Heidi_234]

/hijack
Gosh Millie your hair get prettier and longer by the day! I can't even imagine what it is going to be like when it's long...
/endofhijack
:couch:

[mellie]

Aw shucks, thank you, Heidi!....:flowers: Your hair is of course, totally STUNNING, my dear!! :D

I have promised myself not to cut whatsoever all of 2009 - so I can't wait to see what Christmas will bring! :cheer:

Sorry for the hijack, Lile! :D

[Lile]

Thank you both for the input,and Mellie,for the great infos.
I have non sticky ones.So they might be weaker.
I did have some build up on the lengths,but that's ok now.I think it's mostly washed out.I didn't use many coney things in the past.Just twice in the last month.
So my lengths are just simply damaged. Anyway,I wont wash it,so the dryness at the ends,is kinda solved.I managed to wash only the scalp by spraying the liquid on the roots only on dry hair.The method works fine,it's just that creamy dry stuff I don't like when I finish.
With the three nuts in about 150ml water was very cleansing,but a bit too drying.So I thought the second "batch"is going to be better.But that left this creamy film.
I thought maybe it comes out of the soapnuts with the second liquid.So I made a new one,but a bit weaker,only with half shell.
It did foam up nicely,but left that nasty stuff on the roots...

I guess,I'll have to use the stronger dilution.But then it feels much dryer than my fav herbal shampoo.

hm....

I'll have to think about it,and experiment a bit more.

[Lile]

And Mellie!I like your hair!So glossy.Grow it looong!!!

[marialena]

I couldn't find the powdered form of aritha,or shikakai.
So I bought a bag of whole soapnuts...
If I can't find any way to use it on my hair,I might just use it for laundry...whatever:-)
Thanks for the advices.

Perhaps the soapnuts that you bought had in them their seeds. As Mellie says in her blog, if the soapnuts have in them the seeds don't work properly when you used them. Did you check them if they had the seeds in them?

( I don't use soapnuts so I can't help further.:))

[Lile]

Perhaps the soapnuts that you bought had in them their seeds. As Mellie says in her blog, if the soapnuts have in them the seeds don't work properly when you used them. Did you check them if they had the seeds in them?

( I don't use soapnuts so I can't help further.:))

No,they don't. It would be quite obvious if they had the seeds inside.

[mellie]

That's a great idea, Marialena, I didn't even think of that! So, Lile, yours are definitely broken open?

Another thing I just thought of, about the film - maybe that film is sebum! Someone else had that problem too. They were using a solution that was too diluted and wasn't cleansing enough to get the sebum off.

ETA: Here's that thread about the soapnuts not getting the sebum off:
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=24240&highlight=soapnuts

P.S. Thanks, Lile, for the nice comments! :flowers:

[Fractalsofhair]

If it's too drying, I suggest trying to use oil. Or coconut milk(works well for my hair) to help with the dryness. If you want another natural solution, Alaffia is a great brand for soap based shampoo, and shampoo bars are pretty close to natural(lye being iffy, but it's certainly much more natural than SLS), and environmentally friendly. I used doc Bronner's as a child, and if I use enough coconut milk, even on my very damaged hair, I can still use them. Never tried soapnuts, but they do seem like a good idea for many. If you have too much sebum in your hair, try brushing it to see if it looks shiny or still built up. If it turns to a shine, generally that means it's just sebum. If not, it's build up.

[ShaSha]

I found soapnuts too drying. But I never tried the foam method that Mellie uses. If I could use soapnuts just to roots and not the lenght then it might be better.

My hair is barely APL and I have not yet managed to find a way to wash only scalp.

I use a powder sometimes (once a month maybe) that has "sapindus mukorossi" in it. Also Shikakai, Amla, Aritha and other things. That does not dry my ends but leaves them very slick.

[Twitter]

I never got soapnuts to work for me either :(. I got sebum buildup on my scalp, or they were dying. I tried mild and strong solutions, vinegar, lemon and lime. I think for some people they just don't work. I did find that doing a heavy scalp oiling then washing with powdered aritha, shikakai, and conditioning herbs got rid of most of my scalp buildup, but it got too time consuming. I've been using CV shampoo bars lately, and they really help my scalp.

[scbasil7]

I know this is an old thread, but I'm facing similar problems with reetha. My length is very clean and soft after washing with reetha, but there's a weird sticky powdery residue on my scalp. I couldn't identify whether it was sebum or buildup. Did OP find a solution to it?
Thank you in advance. :-)

[Ophidian]

I get that too when I use soapnuts alone (or any cleansing herb in a tea form really). I've found that I need to use my herbs in a gravy-like consistency so I can apply it directly to my scalp and really work it in.

[valkyrie90]

It took me a good while to get soapnuts work the right way . I never get to use the powder so I had to make it work as tea form by boiling soapnuts in water with other herbs . I enjoy it later on . . Got sticky hair right after the shower , then my hair never felt right . I played with the ratios and rinses , kinda loosing hope until bam ! it worked ! It turned out that I need my solution to be super strong . I gotta pre-oil to prevent my hair from over-dry but it's worth . Hair comes out superb soft and shiny , dry fast like never before . Keep trying with soapnuts or move on to other methods . I wanna try clay wash but I'm used to herb wash and also use it as body wash . 1 stone 2 birds hehe

[01]

How much oil do you use? What other herbs you add?

[valkyrie90]

How much oil do you use? What other herbs you add?

I use a generous amount of coconut oil , sorry I never measure it accurately. Leave it in for 4 hours after massaging it throughly all over my hair especially my scalp. Then I use 1/4 cup of saponin solution made of 50 soapnuts and 100gr shikakai and other vietnamese herbs ( I don't know their names in English and I buy them in tea bag form mixed with shikakai. ). The herbs are said to keep your hair soft and so on , mostly just keep soapnuts and shikakai from over-drying your hair). I dilute saponin solution with water to make a cup. I pour it on my hair over and over again and massage the tea as well as possible, until the tea turn cloudy , like the color of milk coffee something . I leave it in and go wash my body for 10 mins. Then I rinse it off with hot water to get as much as possible oil out. I repeat the progress again with a lighter solution . This time , it lathers almost like regular shampoo which is my fav thing. After I rinse it off with lukewarm water I do a lime rinse , wait for some minutes if i have time , then rinse it off with really cold water. All the oil is out and your my hair feels less squeaky as b4. When it completely dry it feels sooo goood !!

[scbasil7]

Thank you so much for the details of your method, valkyrie90! I'll experiment with the strength of the solution, and try some Indian herbs from my garden. I'll get back with the results this weekend! :D

[valkyrie90]

Thank you so much for the details of your method, valkyrie90! I'll experiment with the strength of the solution, and try some Indian herbs from my garden. I'll get back with the results this weekend! :D

You're welcome. :d. I forgot to say that I boil those herbs in 2l of water in 1 hour to make 1.5l of soapnut liquid. It's a big batch and it's very strong because i put coconut oil in my hair plus my hair is naturally sooo oily. You don't have to make it that strong if you don't pre-oil your hair . Be careful if your hair is dry.

[scbasil7]

Hi! Back with the results!

I soaked 4 reethas (I've got the sticky ones with seeds, fresh from the tree) in a cup of water overnight. In the morning I added another cup of water to it and boiled it for 5 minutes. Oiled my hair with coconut oil 2 hours before washing, shampooed with the reetha liquid, rinsed with 2 tsp vinegar in 500 ml water, and then rinsed some more with cold water. Hair is now very soft and it even shines a little. However, the sticky feeling remains around the scalp, though it's not as bad as before.

I'll continue to experiment every weekend, and if I find a solution I'll post it here.

[Dixie Derelict]

Thank you so much for the details of your method, valkyrie90! I'll experiment with the strength of the solution, and try some Indian herbs from my garden. I'll get back with the results this weekend! :D
Whoa! There ya go : just what I've been wondering about! Apparently, one CAN grow Indian herbs in a home garden in USA!I live in the deep South (New Orleans) and I figured I could, as our climate ought to be similar to at least SOME parts of India. How do you go about getting seeds/ seedlings for things like Amla, Bhringraj, etc.?

[lapushka]

Whoa! There ya go : just what I've been wondering about! Apparently, one CAN grow Indian herbs in a home garden in USA!I live in the deep South (New Orleans) and I figured I could, as our climate ought to be similar to at least SOME parts of India. How do you go about getting seeds/ seedlings for things like Amla, Bhringraj, etc.?

Hmm, maybe online?

[Starchild494]

I am dying to get my hands on a neem plant!

My local bulk barn carries soap nuts and I really want to try them... But am get shikakai areetha and other herbal powders in the mail... Going to try those first