"Brethren" with curls or frizz?

[Merlin]

OK, this is not a facetious question!

I've just been chatting to the woman with whom I work and we were talking about the religious groups where the women cover their hair, and she said "they always have such dead straight hair too" pointing out that if she joined it would be wild and frizzy.

It's the first time I've ever thought about this, but actually thinking about it whenever I've seen them about (we have mainly Bretheren groups here) the women always do seem to have this amazing, poker-straight, hair! You just don't see 'em looking like Crystal Tips (http://www.bbc.co.uk/liverpool/content/images/2004/07/15/crystaltipps_350x240.jpg)

Do they have some mystical hair-care routine, does the weight pull them out, or is it that over the years of not marrying out the genes for frizzy or curly hair have just disappeared from their pool.

[Mary <><]

I cover my hair, frizz and all! 2a here!

[Mary <><]

or is it that over the years of not marrying out the genes for frizzy or curly hair have just disappeared from their pool.

Can you clarify this staement?

[Stevy]

I'm not Brethren, but I always assumed it was the weight of their hair pulling it straight. Mine used to be a lot wavier when it was shorter, and I suppose I just assumed everyone's hair worked like mine. :)

[Merlin]

Can you clarify this staement?

Certainly, I'll try :-)

In general the bretheren only tend to marry people from other bretheren families it's not impossible that the genes for straight hair could come to be predominant in their group gene pool. I've just realised that this might be more than the lack of curls. When we lived in Exter there was quite a large group and you ofen used to see them around town, or exhorting in the town centre on a saturday. Now I come to think of it not only did they all have straight hair but none of them were blond or redheaded either - clearly there are limiting factors in their genetic mix. The more I think about it the members that I've seen in other places are overwhelmingly dark (I've seen one or two blondes but never redheads) with straight hair. I can stand at my office door and watch a thousand kids who are selected only by the fact that their parents live locally and there is far more diversity of appearance than I've ever seen in the UK Bretheren groups.

I stress, these are very very much a minority group in the UK and of course in other countries things might be very very different. If you were an apostolic bretheren group who actively sought members from outside the group and where members married people who were not group members, then you'd expect loads of variation. If on the other hand you're a small group and you only marry people from within the group even though you're not 'inbred' in the classic, slightly perjorative, sense you'd expect to see less diversity.

Of course, having said that I'm going to go into Waitrose on Saturday and see a member of the apostolic bretheren with a mass of stawberry blonde curls!

[Mary <><]

You don't have to be born into this faith, so I doubt marrying other Brethren has anything to do with straight hair or other genetic traits. I frequent the various circles of plain groups as I am an Anabaptist, and I have seen people of all colors, nationalities, and physical characteristics, including curly hair.

[Merlin]

Perhaps I didn't make it clear that I'm talking about the UK here? Sorry if I failed to make that point :-(

As I said I don't know anything about the situation in other countries, but in the UK the brethren only associate with other members and therefore generally (in fact almost exclusively) they are born to parents who are members. Therefore I'd argue that there may well be a genetic element in their case.

[florenonite]

I'm going for the theory that they have a somewhat limited gene pool. No blondes amongst them in Britain? That would appear to indicate to me that they either dye their hair or else they've "bred out" the blonde. I do believe that blonde hair is recessive (though very common in the UK), as is red hair, so it makes sense that if they remain within a small group then those recessive characteristics just wouldn't appear amongst them. The same might be true of curly hair, though I don't know if curls are recessive. Given the example of my family, though, I suspect curls are recessive. Between my three sisters and I, there's only one curly. The rest of us are about 1c/2a, and neither of my parents are curlies (though my dad might be a 2c, but his hair hasn't been long enough to tell since I was wee).

[Merlin]

No blondes amongst them in Britain?

Clearly, I'm only saying that I've never seen blonde or red, not that it never occurs among them at all in the UK. Just wanted to clarify that..

[LutraLutra]

*hijack*
(snip) You just don't see 'em looking like Crystal Tips (http://www.bbc.co.uk/liverpool/content/images/2004/07/15/crystaltipps_350x240.jpg) (snip)
Like me, you mean? She's my avatar. :D *hijack ends*

[BlndeInDisguise]

I didn't realize there were any "brethren" in the UK. At least, I'm assuming that you mean people somewhat like Amish? If so, I am what you'd call "brethren". We have a lot of girls with curly hair. We have red hair, brown hair, blonde hair, black hair, and all different shades of hair. And nationalities as well (not necessarily in our church, but other churches).

[florenonite]

Clearly, I'm only saying that I've never seen blonde or red, not that it never occurs among them at all in the UK. Just wanted to clarify that..

Of course. I didn't word it well in my post. I meant more that I would expect to see plenty of blondes in Britain, rather than few.

[Akiko]

This is a dumb question... But how do you know their hair is straight if it's covered? Or maybe "covered" means different than what I am thinking of. Don't they make a bun and wear a bonnet/snood etc.?

[rhubarbarin]

I don't know anything about the Brethren, but I have lived (upstate New York) and currently live (eastern Pennsylvania) in an area with a high proportion of Mennonite and Amish people and I have noticed they all seem to have 1a hair (either blonde or light to medium brown - no red, dark brown, or black). Since they don't often marry outside their sects they share many physical characteristics, including some genetic disorders. There's been quite a lot of valuable genetic research done with Amish/Mennonite people for this reason - there are few other populations left in the world with small gene pools.

ETA: This of course is only my own observation in my own area.

[Merlin]

I didn't realize there were any "brethren" in the UK. At least, I'm assuming that you mean people somewhat like Amish? If so, I am what you'd call "brethren". We have a lot of girls with curly hair. We have red hair, brown hair, blonde hair, black hair, and all different shades of hair. And nationalities as well (not necessarily in our church, but other churches).

Not many in the UK at all - I think that's why they stand out in public. They don't socialise with people outside their churches (apart from occasionally standing on street corners bellowing scripture at disinterested passers by). Interesting point about nationalities though, I've never seen a black or Asian one either.


This is a dumb question... But how do you know their hair is straight if it's covered? Or maybe "covered" means different than what I am thinking of. Don't they make a bun and wear a bonnet/snood etc.?

They just wear a headscarf and leave the rest of the hair hanging loose and very long.

[MandaMom2Three]

I used to belong to a covering church and knew lots of people in others, we had lots of frizzys and curlys! :)

[BlndeInDisguise]

The way we "have" to put our hair up is not conducive to maintaining curls. Typically our hair is either parted on the side/middle and combed back or just combed back without a part. We usually use a fine toothed comb to achieve that "perfect look" :p and therefore straightening out curls. A lot of girls comb while it's wet, as well.

But now that I think about it, I'm not sure if there are any girls who who have anything more than 3a hair (besides maybe girls of different nationalities). But, most "Brethren" girls don't know a whole lot about haircare, and their hair is probably straighter because of it.

[Lamb]

I haven't read all the replies, but here is my take on the question.

1. If I didn't have access to daily rinses, conditioners and leave-ins, my hair would be 2a at best (I know from previous experience). As it is, I am a 2c/3a.
I am assuming these women don't fuss too much over their hair, plus a hairbrush would be a must for their buns. Result=no curls.

2. Last I went to Britain (England to be more specific), curly hair was far less prevalent there than in other countries. And without dye-jobs, it is not a difficult treat to produce a largish group of women with brown/mousey hair colour.

Don't know about genetics. Both my parents have stick-straight hair, I inherited my curls from my grandmother, looks sometimes skip a generation or two (or three).

BUT I would definitely assume that since these women do not spend lots of time "bringing out the curl", they simply brush and flatten whatever curl or wave they might naturally have into oblivion. In other words, even if they do have some curl, that curl is not allowed to come out. And unless we are talking about indomitable tight 3c curls, a few years of brushing and strict headcovering are enough to subdue them, particularly with fine hair (which, last I checked, quite a few Englishwomen have.)

[BlndeInDisguise]

Not many in the UK at all - I think that's why they stand out in public. They don't socialise with people outside their churches (apart from occasionally standing on street corners bellowing scripture at disinterested passers by). Interesting point about nationalities though, I've never seen a black or Asian one either.

I know a black girl, but I can't think off the top of my head if I've ever seen an Asian plain girl. I probably have at some point. I also know an Indian (India) girl. Being that we are more common here in the states, you'll see lots of different nationalities in different plain churches. :)



They just wear a headscarf and leave the rest of the hair hanging loose and very long.

Now that is interesting. I have never heard of or seen anything like that. :o All the Plain people here in the states wear their hair up and covered.

[Akiko]

They just wear a headscarf and leave the rest of the hair hanging loose and very long.

Oh, thank you. I used to live in upstate NY and Ohio where quite a few Mennonites live. I just assumed Bretheren people wear a bonnet. Very delicate bonnet and dress, which I always think very graceful.

[Mary <><]

I'm not trying to be contrary (no pun on my name, LOL) but the assumptions that are being made in this thread seem a bit generalistic. Try visiting some of these churches, you will see that there are a vast array of different people within them. Perhaps you don't recognize some of them as not all choose to cover in the same way as others. I am often not recognized as a Mennonite, usually I am seen as a hippie because my coverings & clothing are not the traditionally recognized coverings & clothing that people think of when they think of Mennonites in a general sense. Perhaps you have seen some of other nationalities within the Brethren but you thought they were Muslims or Hindus because their standard of dress does not match what you perceive as "Brethren."

[Lamb]

I would also like to add that it's easier to think that "all women in a certain group have the same hairtype" if, in all other respects, they look nearly identical: same dress, same type of covering, same way of wearing their hair. ALso, I am assuming you mostly see them together, in groups, which would help do away with distinctive traits: you see them en masse, as one, and perceive them so too. (Kinda like a Caucasian person's difficulties with telling Asian people apart.)

I'll wager closer inspection would reveal that they don't look that alike.

[Lamb]

I've just been chatting to the woman with whom I work and we were talking about the religious groups where the women cover their hair, and she said "they always have such dead straight hair too" pointing out that if she joined it would be wild and frizzy.

Okay, final post on my side: treat such statements with caution. She is comparing her own (assumedly curly and pretty) hair, of which she is likely aware and maybe proud, to the Brethren's hair - her choice of words ("such dead straight hair") is more of a generalized judgment on the Brethren's purposefully plain looks than an accurate and objective observation.

[Kina]

silly question: what are "brethren"? I know what the dictionary says it is, but don't understand the context it's being used in.

[Lamb]

silly question: what are "brethren"? I know what the dictionary says it is, but don't understand the context it's being used in.

Christian brethren = brothers (siblings) in Christ, united as a family in the fellowship of the Christian faith and of the particular branch of Christianity they all belong to.

[Merlin]

silly question: what are "brethren"? I know what the dictionary says it is, but don't understand the context it's being used in.

In the UK it's groups like this: the Exlcusive Bretheren (http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/christianity/subdivisions/exclusivebrethren_3.shtml) - in other parts of the world it presumably has other shades of meaning but as I'm not as widely travelled as a lot of people I've not encountered these!

[EmmaRose]

Ah, so you are talking about closed or exclusive brethren. I was raised open brethren - we wear coverings in church (just a little lace doily, actually) and most women had short hair, often permed. You really wouldn't notice most open brethren in a crowd. Closed brethren are a bit more picky, some of the most extreme groups don't use computers, or socialize with outsiders. But you must be careful of generalizations, most people who consider themselves Plymouth brethren you would never know them from any other moderate christian. And definitely don't confuse them with Amish or Mennonites, the denominations are very different, as different as Baptist and Catholic, in thier own ways, even if some exclusive brethren women may dress sort of like them.

[Merlin]

But you must be careful of generalizations,

Absolutely!

I've tried very hard to always stress that I'm talking about the groups we have in UK and that what I said may well not be true elsewhere. If I've failed in that then I'm sorry as I'm speaking solely about what I've seen in the parts of the UK in which I've lived.

Please accept my apologies for any confusion which I've caused.

[EmmaRose]

If I've failed in that then I'm sorry as I'm speaking solely about what I've seen in the parts of the UK in which I've lived.


Not at all, I was only trying to clarify the difference between open and closed brethren and the Amish and Mennonites, because it seemed to me that several people didn't realize they weren't the same. Most people have never heard of the Plymouth brethren, especially here in the US. I'm always having to explain my "denomination" to others - even seminary trained clergy.

[Pegasus Marsters]

Okay, Pegs is going to step in here and clarify. I've seen the women Merlin is talking about, and he's bang on the mark.

Okay, for one we are talking about the UNITED KINGDOM here, not any other country. What is going on in the USA is likely vastly different to what is going on here. We're not trying to tell you what it's like inside a church in your country, please stop trying to tell us what it's like inside a church in our own. In fact, please stop trying to argue against our own experiences. You weren't there, you didn't experience them, so you can't tell us what happened or what we saw.

Right, for two when Merlin says poker straight hair, he means it. These women have hair so straight I could use it as a ruler. This is not combed out curls, because even my waves go poooooof if I comb them out. This is dead absolutely poker straight not a kink in it hair.

And for three, yes all these girls are white with, in my experience, brown hair, and dress in a fairly distinctive style. Really, even if it were someone of a different skin colour, it wouldn't be hard to make the leap that they're also Brethren.

So yeah, I agree with Merlin and you really can't argue against his experiences within the UK... without being at least from the UK. He is talking about the UK, not any other country. He is not making assumptions as to what is going on in your country, he is only talking about what he has witnessed within his own.

[Wind]

I don't know if this helps at all, but the hair style sounds similar to what I've seen in the central southern US in Apostolic Holiness women. I don't know the specifics for their religion or dress, but the women that I've seen have long, straight hair worn down, with a kerchief type headcovering tucked behind the ears. Like I said, I don't know if there are other similarities, but maybe this helps our US members trying to picture what you're talking about, Merlin. :)

[Kina]

Christian brethren = brothers (siblings) in Christ, united as a family in the fellowship of the Christian faith and of the particular branch of Christianity they all belong to.

thank you. but which particular branch is this group referring to? I thought it was Amish given the postings, but got confused when Mennonite was mentioned and am really far too lazy to do the appropriate research that would keep me from looking like an idiot, and not supposed to be on the internet at all at work anyway. :-)

[florenonite]

thank you. but which particular branch is this group referring to? I thought it was Amish given the postings, but got confused when Mennonite was mentioned and am really far too lazy to do the appropriate research that would keep me from looking like an idiot, and not supposed to be on the internet at all at work anyway. :-)

It's the Exclusive Brethren; Merlin posted a link about them earlier.

And the Amish are a sect of Mennonites, if I'm correct. Mennonites cover a vast range of devotional practices, with the Amish being the ones who tend to be traditional, the "Old Order" Mennonites.

[Toadstool]

Okay, final post on my side: treat such statements with caution. She is comparing her own (assumedly curly and pretty) hair, of which she is likely aware and maybe proud, to the Brethren's hair - her choice of words ("such dead straight hair") is more of a generalized judgment on the Brethren's purposefully plain looks than an accurate and objective observation.

From my perspective this isn't a judgement in that I can imagine someone saying "such dead straight hair " in tones of admiration rather than censure; and the fact that this woman said her hair would be "wild and frizzy" does not sound to me like she is proud of it. In my experience in the UK women generally would rather have straight hair than curly and would not necessarily consider their curly hair to be "pretty". Hence the proliferation of hair straighteners.:)

[Pegasus Marsters]

From my perspective this isn't a judgement in that I can imagine someone saying "such dead straight hair " in tones of admiration rather than censure; and the fact that this woman said her hair would be "wild and frizzy" does not sound to me like she is proud of it. In my experience in the UK women generally would rather have straight hair than curly and would not necessarily consider their curly hair to be "pretty". Hence the proliferation of hair straighteners.:)

Pretty much! Everyone is abusing their hair with straighteners, even girls I know with poker straight hair are heat styling to get it even more straight. The "Such dead straight hair" comment was probably one of admiration or even slight envy.

[Roseate]

I remember these guys from when I lived in the UK and, just to clarify for the US Plain folks, the Brits are not pulling your leg when they say that this is a very closed group. I would be very surprised if there were a significant amount of nonwhite members there, just as I would be surprised to find a bunch of African American Old Order Amish. This is not like your neighborhood Plain church!

The Old Order Amish in the US are so genetically limited that several very unusual genetic diseases are common among their population, so I wouldn't be surprised if the UK Exclusive Brethren were pretty genetically limited too.

[Cassi]

Maybe the ladies iron their hair like in the 70's?? I have curls, and I think they are looked at as sinful or sexual by some people. Having my curly hair down and letting it be curly makes some people here (bible belt) uncomfortable. Maybe curls are not allowed.:confused:

I also have to say if there are any Penecostal women reading this..... I LOVE YOUR HAIR!!! :heartbeat What awesome updoes! Just wanted to throw that in. Sorry for my diversion.

[physicschick]

Okay, Pegs is going to step in here and clarify. I've seen the women Merlin is talking about, and he's bang on the mark.

Okay, for one we are talking about the UNITED KINGDOM here, not any other country. What is going on in the USA is likely vastly different to what is going on here. We're not trying to tell you what it's like inside a church in your country, please stop trying to tell us what it's like inside a church in our own. In fact, please stop trying to argue against our own experiences. You weren't there, you didn't experience them, so you can't tell us what happened or what we saw.

Shall we not even bother posting on this thread because clearly we have nothing to contribute?

Merlin's original post was pretty open for speculation. He was also very clear that he's posting what he's seen in his own experience, leaving open the possibility that it might be skewed by his own perceptions. Other UK people have confirmed his observations, but it's possible to do so without being condescending or trying to dictate what others are allowed to post here.

[Toadstool]

Maybe the ladies iron their hair like in the 70's?? I have curls, and I think they are looked at as sinful or sexual by some people. Having my curly hair down and letting it be curly makes some people here (bible belt) uncomfortable. Maybe curls are not allowed.:confused:

oMG Really? That's terrible! How can a hair type be considered sinful??

[Merlin]

oMG Really? That's terrible! How can a hair type be considered sinful??

In Europe they used to burn redheads as witches during the middle ages I believe.

[Toadstool]

Religion seems to send some people crazy :-(

[Pegasus Marsters]

Shall we not even bother posting on this thread because clearly we have nothing to contribute?

Merlin's original post was pretty open for speculation. He was also very clear that he's posting what he's seen in his own experience, leaving open the possibility that it might be skewed by his own perceptions. Other UK people have confirmed his observations, but it's possible to do so without being condescending or trying to dictate what others are allowed to post here.

I apologise, I was just getting a little ticked off with people telling Merlin what he'd find if he visited one of their churches, when clearly being Americans they could have no idea what he'd find within a church in the UK.

Again, I apologise.

[BlndeInDisguise]

And the Amish are a sect of Mennonites, if I'm correct. Mennonites cover a vast range of devotional practices, with the Amish being the ones who tend to be traditional, the "Old Order" Mennonites.

Amish are Amish, Mennonites are Mennonites. :) There are groups of Mennonites called Old Order Mennonites (Or just Old Orders as we call them around here) who do drive horse and buggy and not use electricity, much like the Amish.

Amish are definitely a separate group from the Mennonites.

And now I'm really off topic, but just wanted to clear that up. :o

[Mary <><]

I apologise, I was just getting a little ticked off with people telling Merlin what he'd find if he visited one of their churches, when clearly being Americans they could have no idea what he'd find within a church in the UK.

Again, I apologise.

That would mean me I suppose. I truly apologize if what I said came off as offensive as it was definitely NOT intended to be.--{-@ I have heard many of the same stereotying about the Brethren groups here in the USA (as well as other plain groups) with absolutely no merrit by people who have never set foot in a Brethren church. I really have no way of knowing if Merlin or anyone else on this forum has ever been to one, so again, my apologies to Pegs & Merlin. :o

[enfys]

I've never been to any brethren churches, but we have some suppliers in work who are exclusively staffed by members of the Plymouth Brethren without exception. I can think of at least two of these companies off the top of my head.

I don't recall ever meeting any female staff, but a rep I know from one of them has quite short hair so you can hardly tell, but I guess it would be either very wavy or fairly curly if he grew it. As far as I know he was born into the faith.

I don't know much about the brethren groups as they are pretty self contained, but I didn't know about his companies religious leanings until other reps confirmed it. One said they are very much like the "Hamish" so I'll take what she says with a pinch of salt most of the time anyway.

I don't recall anyone here looking like a lost cast member from Witness, so either these brethren don't live in South Wales or they don't dress as I would expect from the cliches. I rarely see a white lady with her head covered here.

Is brethren meant to have a B or a b? Just when generally used, not a specific group? If I got it wrong I'll change it.

[florenonite]

Amish are Amish, Mennonites are Mennonites. :) There are groups of Mennonites called Old Order Mennonites (Or just Old Orders as we call them around here) who do drive horse and buggy and not use electricity, much like the Amish.

Amish are definitely a separate group from the Mennonites.

And now I'm really off topic, but just wanted to clear that up. :o

Ah, thanks. I stand corrected :)

[Stevy]

From my perspective this isn't a judgement in that I can imagine someone saying "such dead straight hair " in tones of admiration rather than censure; and the fact that this woman said her hair would be "wild and frizzy" does not sound to me like she is proud of it. In my experience in the UK women generally would rather have straight hair than curly and would not necessarily consider their curly hair to be "pretty". Hence the proliferation of hair straighteners.:)

I have to agree with Toadstool. I'm from the UK, and I can't imagine anyone using 'such dead straight hair' as an insult. Particularly among young women, straight hair is admired. There are billboards over here telling you how to get straight hair with such-and-such a brand of straighteners or such-and-such a shampoo.

[Merlin]

I have to agree with Toadstool. I'm from the UK, and I can't imagine anyone using 'such dead straight hair' as an insult. Particularly among young women, straight hair is admired. There are billboards over here telling you how to get straight hair with such-and-such a brand of straighteners or such-and-such a shampoo.

I'd agree with that - a lot of the girls at our place would rather have their leg amputated without anasthetic than give up their straighteners..

[LisaJaney]

Religion seems to send some people crazy :-(

I'm sure you didn't mean it that way, but your comment could be construed as highly offensive to people who are religious...

[getoffmyskittle]

I'm sure you didn't mean it that way, but your comment could be construed as highly offensive to people who are religious...

Hey, if the shoe doesn't fit... :shrug:

[Cassi]

oMG Really? That's terrible! How can a hair type be considered sinful??

One guy -who I am pretty sure thought I had intentionally curled it- said it was too sexual or something like that. It was odd to me.

[Flynn]

Edit: apologies, oddly enough, this has been gone through.


I've only read up to page three in this thread as I post this, so maybe it's already been resolved (I'll edit if it has) but I think we have a definition problem regarding the term Brethren. In my understanding, in my corner of the world when people talk about "the Brethren" they mean a very specific group of Christians (The Exclusive Brethren) who live in a community separate from "other people", who practice plain dress, who run their own schools, and generally who will not have anything to do with the rest of society. You cannot attend their gatherings, and you cannot enter their community. The only people who are "welcomed" in without becoming members of the Brethren are occasional school teachers, when the school needs a teacher and are unable to draw one from their own community who is sufficiently trained to legally qualify for the position under Board of Studies/State rules.

From what I have seen so far in this thread, Brethren refers to a much broader group in the US, and possibly a completely different group again in the UK.

[Kiraela]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toadstool http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?p=615831#post615831)
Religion seems to send some people crazy :-(


I'm sure you didn't mean it that way, but your comment could be construed as highly offensive to people who are religious...

I don't think Toadstool meant it offensively. To be fair, religion DOES make SOME people crazy. Not all, or even most, by far.

Of course, you could say that shoes tend to make some people crazy, or hair tends to make some people crazy. It's not intended to be offensive to everyone with hair, or even really offensive at all, simply an observation.

Just my :twocents:, though.

[Lamb]

I don't think Toadstool meant it offensively. To be fair, religion DOES make SOME people crazy. Not all, or even most, by far.

Of course, you could say that shoes tend to make some people crazy, or hair tends to make some people crazy. It's not intended to be offensive to everyone with hair, or even really offensive at all, simply an observation.

Just my :twocents:, though.

I see your point, but how about "Being gay seems to make some people crazy?"
Even if it might be true, it's just uncalled for and inconsiderate.

(I personally think if something seems to make you crazy, you were crazy already to begin with.)

[getoffmyskittle]

I see your point, but how about "Being gay seems to make some people crazy?"
Even if it might be true, it's just uncalled for and inconsiderate.

(I personally think if something seems to make you crazy, you were crazy already to begin with.)

Ohhh, aren't you so sick of me by now? :D

Not sure being gay compares, because gay isn't an ideology. And yes, ideologies make some people crazy. I think a better comparison would be "Feminism makes some people crazy," which is a fair and appropriate statement to make.

Like I said, though, if the shoe doesn't fit, don't try to put it on. :p

ETA: :o I'm aware that you probably still disagree with me, which is fine. I won't poke you any more. :flowers:

[Cassi]

Hey Brits.... if The Brethren don't use electricity and such what brings them into public? Do they use the normal grocery places? Do they see physicians or get medication at the pharmacy? I tried to read up on them, but there is very limited info from what I googled (discalimer: a three year old is "helping" me search).

[Nevermore]

Cassi, if the UK Brethren are anything like the US Amish, it's probably grocery shopping or shoe shopping. The Lancaster (PA, not UK) Amish wear standard store-bought sneakers much of the time and descend on walmart in packs. I'd venture to guess that while the Brethren probably don't wear Nikes, they are wearing some kind of store-bought shoe.

[Kiraela]

I see your point, but how about "Being gay seems to make some people crazy?"
Even if it might be true, it's just uncalled for and inconsiderate.

(I personally think if something seems to make you crazy, you were crazy already to begin with.)

I have to agree with you there, if somebody's going crazy over an ideology, they were always a nut just looking for a cause!)

[Stevy]

Hey Brits.... if The Brethren don't use electricity and such what brings them into public? Do they use the normal grocery places? Do they see physicians or get medication at the pharmacy? I tried to read up on them, but there is very limited info from what I googled (discalimer: a three year old is "helping" me search).

I'm not Brethren and can't speak for them, but there's a quite thriving Brethren community in Bristol where I live, and I often see them in the corner grocery or out and about on the streets. There's a BBC page about their history and beliefs here (http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/christianity/subdivisions/exclusivebrethren_1.shtml).

[Cassi]

Thanks Stevy :) That link has a lot of interesting information.

[Bene]

when i say "such dead straight hair" i mean it with the total "omg, i want that hair" envy that only self-hating curlies can muster :shrug:

[Cassi]

when i say "such dead straight hair" i mean it with the total "omg, i want that hair" envy that only self-hating curlies can muster :shrug:

LOL. I have found myself feeling envious of1a & 1b hair too, but it is sooooo slippery. A friend at work wanted me to put her hair up like mine (cinnamon bun). Her hair is BSL so this should be easy right? NO. I had 4 hair pins... she got three and I got one. Her hair was still barely staying in the bun. Three pins would probably keep my bun steady even if I jumped on a trampoline!! It helped me appreciate my sticky curls a bit more. :heartbeat

[Bene]

LOL. I have found myself feeling envious of1a & 1b hair too, but it is sooooo slippery. A friend at work wanted me to put her hair up like mine (cinnamon bun). Her hair is BSL so this should be easy right? NO. I had 4 hair pins... she got three and I got one. Her hair was still barely staying in the bun. Three pins would probably keep my bun steady even if I jumped on a trampoline!! It helped me appreciate my sticky curls a bit more. :heartbeat

you have a point about the bunning... i still can't help but look at the straighties and fantasize about having that kind of hair. i'd walk around with it loose and flowing and swinging in the breeze, like "weeeee"... oh yeah, i'd be a total hair whore if i were a straighty :(

[Flynn]

LOL. I have found myself feeling envious of1a & 1b hair too, but it is sooooo slippery. A friend at work wanted me to put her hair up like mine (cinnamon bun). Her hair is BSL so this should be easy right? NO. I had 4 hair pins... she got three and I got one. Her hair was still barely staying in the bun. Three pins would probably keep my bun steady even if I jumped on a trampoline!! It helped me appreciate my sticky curls a bit more. :heartbeat

My boyfriend, who is a curly, can twist his hair up around itself and it will stay without an elastic, if he needs it to. I have enough trouble trying to get mine to stay together long enough to pin it! (And I got classified as a 2b! ... my hair's pretty fine, though, which probably makes all the difference.)