really long, rambling rant

[Ohio Sky]

My BF has said before that he likes long, thick hair, and so do I (duh) and Im trying to grow it long and thick but its a bit of a PITA. Lots of experimenting and stuff.

Anyways, he told me last night that he wants me to go back to boxed dyes because my hair smells like hay. I dont necessarily like the smell either but I dont henna that often and it only smells for a little while... not to mention that my hair is no longer falling out in chunks and my scalp isnt hurting anymore. Thats more important than a mild hay smell to me...

He acts like my hair is an inconvenience to him, even though I never henna or anything like that unless hes not at home.
I try to not even tell him what I do with my hair because I know he thinks its stupid but I feel like he criticizes (sp?) me for caring about what I look like, which, as you all know, is not always what having long hair is all about.

I know Im overly self conscious and he probably didnt mean much by it but it hurt my feelings. He tells me all the time that I take things too personally, and I know Im terribly insecure, etc. We discuss it all the time, and if he knows this, why would he still say things to insult me?
Im so frusterated.

But, on an up note, Im really starting to enjoy my hair and Im not going to let him take that away from me.

Thanks for letting me rant :)

[oogie]

wow. :grouphug::grouphug:

I honestly can say that I actually understand what you're saying. He asks for one thing and then once you get to giving it to him, he doesn't want it anymore. Such is love... :sigh:

If you are happy with it, then that's what is ultimately important. You can add some sort of scent to it I'm sure to defray the smell of henna if you want to. At least it only SMELLS like hay and doesn't feel like it. (Look at the positives)

All i can say is be true to yourself. Hope things get better for you soon.

[SHELIAANN1969]

Tell him that since your hair smells like hay it fits perfectly because he is acting like a Horses rear end!!! ha ha

Maybe he will get used to the outdoorsy smell, either way he will either get used to it or get over it!!


I guess I am just lucky my bf is a sweetie, he actually applies my henna for me, the last application we couldnt find any gloves and he still has red/orange hands and nails!! (he is so good to me)

[lora410]

What if you add EO to your henna mix? Some men just don't understand why we do the things we do. I would have said sure if you want me to be bald and my hair falling our in clumps ill go back to boxed dye, but if not I suggest you deal with the "slight" hay smell. Then again I am a little mouthy :D My fiancee though accepts everything I do to my hair even if it stinks. hey i got him using neem oil on his ouchies and it works great. He says whatever makes me happy is all that matters.

[Ohio Sky]

oogie, you nailed it! I always feel like hes hinting at things he wants, but wont ask me outright, but then if I do it, he has something to say about that too. He has something to say about everything, but its always subtle, so that when I say something about it, he can say Im just being defensive because its not like he yelled at me or anything. It almost seems like some kind of power game. Im not sure what to do about it.

Sheliaann, youre so lucky. I dont think my bf would ever do that for me. :( I dont think I would even be able to get him to comb it for me, lol.

[Ohio Sky]

Lora, you always reply to my frusterated posts. Thanks :)
Have you found any EOs that take away henna smell? Cuz I havent... cloves helped a bit, but then my hair smelled like cloves, and he said something about that too.

[Lamb]

Anyways, he told me last night that he wants me to go back to boxed dyes because my hair smells like hay.

He acts like my hair is an inconvenience to him

I know he thinks its stupid but I feel like he criticizes (sp?) me for caring about what I look like

OhioSky, please take a look at the three phrases I took from your rant. Your BF said one thing - that your hair smells like hay and if you went back to box dye, it probably wouldn't. From this simple, specific (and, to my mind, harmless) remark you draw a plethora of very general conclusions: that he is critical of you caring for your appearance (how could that be true since he explicitly prefers long hair on you??), that he acts as if your hair is inconveniencing him (again, if he likes long hair, how on earth could that be true?). That is not very fair, nor is it logical. Don't jump to conclusions too soon.


I know Im overly self conscious and he probably didnt mean much by it but it hurt my feelings. He tells me all the time that I take things too personally, and I know Im terribly insecure, etc.
Well, perhaps you do have a tendency to take remarks too seriously?

We discuss it all the time, and if he knows this, why would he still say things to insult me?
But what if he did not say things to insult you? If you both know you tend to overreact, does it not follow that you, too, should reconsider your own reactions? It won't help if your BF just "shuts up" - it will not cure your insecurity or self-consciousness. You can help yourself by being aware of your patterns of thought, and by making yourself rethink situations which make you feel insulted or criticized. Don't make a mountain out of a molehill!


Im really starting to enjoy my hair and Im not going to let him take that away from me.
That's really great! But please, please tell me why do you think that your BF wants to take this away from you??? It just doesn't make sense from what you have written.

ETA: I just realized I sound as though I was trying to "put the blame on you" for the way you feel. No, no, that is not my intention at all! But sometimes it helps to reconsider our own reactions to a situation before we concentrate on the situation itself. That was all I wanted to say. Hugs to you, and by all means stick to the routine which makes your hair healthy.

[Ohio Sky]

Lamb, thanks for your honesty. This is just one example of things he has said, but I know I do blow things out of proportion, and little comments like that bother me more than they should. Ive gotten to the point where I dont say anything most of the time, because usually if I think about it for a while I can picture how the conversation would go and I get over it.

But, at the same time, it seems like the more I dont say anything, the more he does say stuff, and its not just my hair, it is in everything I do. He has something to say all the time, from me not washing the dishes after cooking him dinner at 9:00 at night, to watering the plants outside when he just watered the day before. They looked thirsty!
It bothers me that he never has anything positive to say. If he gave me a compliment every once in a while maybe I wouldnt feel so down when he said something a little less than complimentary.

And also, I have no idea why, but I was never this self conscious before I was with him. A little, yeah, but not to where I would burst into tears over someone telling me my hair smelled like hay. I dont know why :confused:

I know youre right in what youre said, though, its just that theres more to it and I cant figure it out.
I figured I should rant here instead of at him.
Thanks for listening :)

[Lamb]

Okay that explains. I'm so sorry about this - it seems there is a lot of tension inside you, and most of it can be due to unsolved, unuttered conflicts within your relationship.
Seriously, if you do feel it is getting to be a "power game" as you said, you should definitely talk it over with him and take a good look at your relationship. Perhaps keeping a journal in which you record everything he says (and just the words!) could help him and you too see what really is going on. He may be so much less self-conscious than you that he doesn't even realize how he is coming across!

(sorry for this incoherent post - talk about rambling... :o)

[getoffmyskittle]

And also, I have no idea why, but I was never this self conscious before I was with him. A little, yeah, but not to where I would burst into tears over someone telling me my hair smelled like hay. I dont know why :confused:

To me, this seems like the biggest problem, and something you should probably think about.

Perhaps The Red Flag List (http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/manipulator/redflaglist.shtml) will help you..? (And the list doesn't necessarily have to be about him, if YOU see things on it that you do, you can work on that too.)

[oogie]

Ohio Sky-

I know that this is going to be rough but honestly you need to stick to what YOU like. Know yourself and don't let anyone stand in your way. Power games are not good for ANYONE (unless of course they like it and its' mutual) Otherwise, you need to stop the games now. Tell him that you are not going to go down that road. Don't be defensive, don't be emotional (this is the hardest part) but just tell him rationally how you feel. If you have to write it down first to really practice or edit what you're wanting to say- do it.

You have the right to JOY and PEACE. Go claim it. Best wishes.

[spidermom]

The opposite of Lamb; I'm wondering why you're with him. It sounds like he's undermining your self-confidence on purpose to me, and he knows exactly where to dig, doesn't he? If you don't take a stand and set firm boundaries, you're going to end up feeling so inadequate that you'll be afraid to do anything without his express direction. I've seen this happen.

[FrannyG]

Ohio Sky, the man that you want to be with is a man who will uplift you; a man who will see beauty in you where you see flaws. Please don't think that these men don't exist. They do. If you find that you are allowing your self-confidence to become lower due to this relationship, something is off and this isn't the right relationship for you.

I hope that you take a good look at what the dynamics are in this relationship and do what you need to do whether staying in or leaving the relationship, in order to preserve your self-esteem.

Hugs to you, sweetie. :grouphug:

[SHELIAANN1969]

I swear, if he said that again, Id bust out with that song by "Dirty Ole Bastard"

"Hey, dirty........dirty I got your moneyyyyyy"

But Im just a smart alek!!!

[Áine]

Getoffmyskittle, that really is an interesting list. I'm going to forward to my friends, I think most of the tips are pretty good.

[Kirin]

As the old saying goes, it takes two to tango. Your being sensitive, he's being critical. You cant stop being sensitive until he stops being critical.

My husband knows better than to critisize anything i do. Why?

I simply explained to him -one- time years ago, when i feel pretty, healthy, taken care of, and self doted upon with whatever new treatment or thing I want to try, I feel good about myself. When I feel good about myself, you get sex.

That stopped any weird looks when I do anything to beautify myself or my hair LOL

[lora410]

Lora, you always reply to my frustrated posts. Thanks :)
Have you found any EOs that take away henna smell? Cuz I havent... cloves helped a bit, but then my hair smelled like cloves, and he said something about that too.

What can i say I am attracted to drama..j/k..I don't use henna (afraid I may mess it up) what about lavender, rosemary, ylang ylang, lemon, orange, rose, patchouli. god only knows there are a million of them..lol you could mix two of them together and make it smell pretty and then add it to the henna.Or you could ask him what smells he likes and if he says i don't know then say well looks like you get to deal with smelling hay then. maybe it would make him feel better to be a part of it though? men are such babies let me tell ya.My fiancée once said that stuff stinks (sweet success hair oil and my homemade scalp massage oil) and I said well then don't smell it.:lol:

[lora410]

Lamb, thanks for your honesty. This is just one example of things he has said, but I know I do blow things out of proportion, and little comments like that bother me more than they should. Ive gotten to the point where I dont say anything most of the time, because usually if I think about it for a while I can picture how the conversation would go and I get over it.

But, at the same time, it seems like the more I don't say anything, the more he does say stuff, and its not just my hair, it is in everything I do. He has something to say all the time, from me not washing the dishes after cooking him dinner at 9:00 at night, to watering the plants outside when he just watered the day before. They looked thirsty!
It bothers me that he never has anything positive to say. If he gave me a compliment every once in a while maybe I wouldn't feel so down when he said something a little less than complimentary.

And also, I have no idea why, but I was never this self conscious before I was with him. A little, yeah, but not to where I would burst into tears over someone telling me my hair smelled like hay. I don't know why :confused:

I know you're right in what you're said, though, its just that theres more to it and I cant figure it out.
I figured I should rant here instead of at him.
Thanks for listening :)

Sorry to but in but if he is critical of EVERYTHING you do are you sure this is the guy you want to share your life with? I mean don't get me wrong my fiancée criticizes stuff to but not to omg you didn't do the dishes or water the plants. I'd promptly tell him i cooked you do the dishes and if you see the plants thirsty get off your rear and do it. I was in a relationship like you are in before and needless to say I got out of it because he obviously had issues. Is it possible he is jealous you pay more attention to your hair and yourself? maybe he is afraid if you look to good you will find someone else aka leading to insecurity aka leading to criticism to lower your self esteem so you will stay? sorry if i butted in, but as a woman who was in an abusive marriage I tend to see things differently.

[Riot Crrl]

I'm lucky, DH prefers hay to overchlorinated swimming pool or Pine-Sol.

Please be careful with EOs in your henna mix. Some of them are not good to have on that many square inches of skin for that amount of time. A lot of people have had luck with the ginger, cinnamon, and/or cloves.

[Ohio Sky]

Thats an interesting list, but very few things on it apply to either of us.
I dont mean to make it sound like hes constantly berating me; hes not. Things are usually good, its just the occasional (maybe once a week) discussion about my self-confidence stemming from something he said.
I think a large part of it is because of his last relationship... he lived for the last 10 years with someone who constantly berated him and made him feel like ****. Then, when he finally decided to end it, she tried to kill us both several different times and had him falsely imprisoned. And he still has to deal with her on a regular basis, and its not getting any better. We all know bad relationships take a while to get over, and have some very lasting effects. I know I still have issues from past relationships so I try to be patient.
I know he tends to be moody when things concerning his ex and his kids are getting him down, and I take it personally.
I just dont know how much of his attitude (or mine, too) will get better with time. I dont know whether to just wait it out, try to fix it, or give up.

Kirin, I love your suggestion, exept that I have to hound him for sex as it is :p

[heidi w.]

oogie, you nailed it! I always feel like hes hinting at things he wants, but wont ask me outright, but then if I do it, he has something to say about that too. He has something to say about everything, but its always subtle, so that when I say something about it, he can say Im just being defensive because its not like he yelled at me or anything. It almost seems like some kind of power game. Im not sure what to do about it.

I'm one who prefers direct and specific statements, although in my effort to be kind with my boyfriend, AND in combination with our very different communication styles, sometimes I am not as direct as I'd like to be and things get confused, and hurts arise. I sometimes have to think about that hurt and dig a little deeper to the undercurrent of things.

The thing that I'm picking up here is that your beau seems inclined to kind of blame you if he's misunderstood, somehow. He has a communication style, that by your explanation, seems to put you in a position of never really knowing where you stand and he gets to be 'more' powerful. It's a control position, and isn't that uncommon a stance to take. Not that I personally like it because it smacks of a kind of hierarchical structure to a relationship that I instinctively dislike.

I don't want to say specifically that he's controlling -- only you get to decide that.

I don't want to say specifically that he may be tending towards some passive-agressiveness -- again, you get to decide that.

However, there are ways to deal with this.

The main thing is not to guess about how to please him. In guessing, we invariably lose sight of what's important to us, and thus place the emphasis and priority (ies) on what the other might want. It makes for easy complaints about our over sensitivity and the like. Plus we lose focus about our own development and goals and dreams. The focus on them often means someone in the relationship somehow is more important or gets more.

This is a tough balancing act in relationship because power does shift depending on what we're discussing and working on. Also different problems mean that the focus on another may be more intense for a period of times while we ourselves take a back seat for a little bit of time. But it shouldn't be something such as it's always about them. It's the give & take that indicates the healthiness of a relationship.

So, I'd say, unless he is direct, don't reward him.

You can say things like, I'm getting the impression that you want X. Is that true? And see what he says. If he opts to not clarify and be clear and specific, then you can let him know you can't do anything to help him unless he tells you what he wants. This too allows you to state what you need as in, I need you to tell me specifically what you want. Without this information I can't make any decisions about how to solve this problem.

However, in this instance he's being direct. He says the smell is bothering him, and he made a suggestion of what he imagines a fix to be. He's associating henna-ing with the smell. But I'm going to focus on just the bottom, bottom issue: smell. You can ignore his association and work with the prime issue: aroma. That's specific and clear. Remember, he doesn't know hair like you do! Perhaps his suggestion is his way of softening the blow by providing a solution to the problem, you know, the technique of saying well, here's the issue and here's one way I think the problem could be solved.

His suggestion for solving the problem doesn't suit you. I would just work with the main component: that the smell is bothering him. I wouldn't assume the henna is the cause for the aroma, necessarily.

Caveat: I do not know about henna and any associated smells as I have no experience with henna.

My bet is that you are washing your hair less frequently and possibly with an alternate method than the traditional shampoo/condition system. It may help to wash your hair a little more frequently, whatever your method. You might also consider doing some kind of clarifying at intervals when the buildup is a lot and to help really cleanse the scalp skin. When that sebum gets built up, it can get really pungent, and frankly, it doesn't take much sebum to get the hint of somewhat unpleasant aroma. When we discuss hair washing, the real crux of this activity is cleaning the scalp skin which is the greatest area of hygienic concern.

Whenever you clarify (if you opt for this), it is VERY IMPORTANT TO ALSO condition as part of your clarifying process. Clarifying strips the hair of all moisture, so you must replace what's been removed or the hair will come out kind of dry and flyaway and a funny kind of texture.

The usual reason hair smells for the longer term (the day in/day out) is because product of some kind is staying in the hair (not being rinsed well enough); or more likely the scalp skin isn't being cleaned sufficiently.

Coloring and/or perming hair in some format, that aroma, shouldn't persist long term, certainly not beyond the next hair wash session, whenever that is timed for the type of coloring process that is being done.

I would focus on the critical statement he is making. He is saying something about the aroma of your hair is affecting him. He has no clue how to fix it, really. While I can completely identify with the idea that such a statement FEELS hurtful, in its way, at least he is for once saying something direct and specific about a need he'd like to have met. He didn't say YOU smell, just your hair. This, then, is a very fixable problem.

I will add one more thing. I have used one major product most of my hair life, and somewhat recently I came across a product that works terrific for my scalp skin problem (Seborrheic Dermatitus, which believe me, if unwashed smells really rank...even by day 3). This product also happens to be great for my condition and smell absolutely wonderful. It has restored my pleasure in having freshly washed hair and the time this activity requires at my length.

I wouldn't recommend trying to 'cover' the aroma, unless it's known that henna'd hair does have a kind of unpleasant aroma. Typically those who cover aromas that are pungent end up with worse results unwittingly.

I don't think you need to stop henna-ing your hair if you don't want to. IF you use oils in your hair you can always infuse that carrier oil with a scented oil that you like (one of my favorites is Grapefruit, surprisingly). This can be done after any fresh hair wash, whether you apply that oil to damp or dry hair. You can even infuse shea butter with scented oils. A few drops usually go a long way, so don't overdo it.

In preparation for a fresh hair wash, I would recommend scritching the scalp skin to loosen any sebum that may have dried a little harder and to loosen dead skin cells that need to slough off anyway. Scritching is a method of massaging the scalp skin and can also be used to loosen sebum, dirt, grime, product that has managed to cake on (even if only a little) the scalp skin so that the hair wash method you use is yet more effective. Use a small toothed comb. Draw the hair back over the crown. Using little back&forth motions, like itching, proceed in rows through the hair. A small toothed comb will not harm your hair because you are not detangling with this comb. You do not go down the length. Hold the comb at an angle such that debris kind of curls up.

I also recommend ensuring your hair tools are clean. Because it's easy enough to infuse old detris from hair tools back into freshly cleansed hair.

Also make sure your pillowcase is clean and even take a looksee at your pillow. Unbelievably, for some, depending on their sebum output, the pillow can be stained yellow from scalp skin oils.

In men's defense in general, it's my understanding that men really respond to the smell of a woman (when so inclined), and this can be a way to get a man's attention. In the act of 'exercise' a man is pretty up close & personal with hair. Most men like the business of hair, even if not super long. But I have met all sorts of men with all kinds of proclivities, and I do know that the smell of a woman's hair is a pretty big motivator for activities, or not. Right up there is if the hair is getting in the way or not, which is why I often recommend a braid.

Hair can really hang on to odors, as we all know. Thankfully my state recently enacted the no smoking laws in public places, so I no longer come home smelling of cigarette smoke. That sebum makes it easy for aromas to attach and stay.

Hope this helps you out a little.

heidi w.

[k_hepburn]

Dear Ohio Sky,

I've seen this happen before, so I would like to give you a very direct warning. Being in a relationship where the person who is supposed to love you is constantly criticising every aspect of your behaviour and appearance is like slowly getting poisoned. It erodes your self-confidence, first just slightly then increasingly fast, and the more it does the more dependent you get on getting some sort of positive feedback from him. The next step then is to blame yourself for being dependent on his approval, seeking the fault with yourself. And it is his behaviour that is inducing these changes in you, whether he is deliberately doing it to get you to submit to him, or whether it is just thoughtless casual nastiness on his part.

Either way you are getting hurt because of his behaviour.

This may all sound rather drastic, but may I give you just two examples. When I saw the title of this thread I was expecting something at least a page long. When I then saw your initial post, the first thought that popped into my head way "Wow, if she considers this a really long, rambling rant, she obviously hasn't seen anything yet! " The next thing that struck me was that in one place in that really short not really rant-ish perfectly justified expression of being hurt, was that you bothered to question your own spelling in one place. Now, English being my second language, I really try to put an effort into using the correct spelling, and occasionally I may even ask if a phrase I use is correct, but for you to question yourself over such a negligible thing as spelling when you aretalking about feeling hurt to looked like a signal, a signal of just how unsure of yourself you are feeling right now. It sounded like you felt you had to apologize for taking up our time with your concerns. You do not. From what I've seen, that is what this forum is there for, and people are always happy to listen and help you out with their perspective on a matter if you ask for it.

I too would suggest that you need to reconsider this relationship you are in very seriously. A first step may be to open up to your friends and family about what is going on in your relationship, if there are such people there whom you can trust and talk to. In a situation like yours it really helps to surround yourself with people who give your boyfriend's view of the world and of you a reality check and who remind you that you are a nice person who deserves to be loved and treated with respect.

Best wishes

katharine

[heidi w.]

I am agreeing with k_hepburn that we may have some warning signs. I rather consistently rankle at the proposal, when I am saying something that is true for me about how I feel and/or think, when the reply is 'you're too sensitive' Instinctively I think, "For who?"

I'm not too sensitive for me.

I have dealt with this issue a lot in my life, and for the most part have come to realize that when a person scoffs at my feelings and thoughts this way, it's just a way to undermine my confidence in who I am so that they can feel better somehow.

But as I stated in my former post, you get to decide. The victim usually does. (That's a thought provoking statement, I know...but think about it a little bit and you may see what I mean.)

So, take care in this relationship. If you find yourself too often having to defend your position, or getting frustrated over not being understood often enough (it's OK if it's occasional), then maybe, maybe this isn't Mr. Right. You get to decide: never forget that in your life. That's a very important thought and attitude.

This communication style may be a pattern, even if in this instance he is being specific about a smell problem. This one or a few instances like this may be insufficient data to let him off the hook for his communication style.

heidi w.

[heidi w.]

When I feel good about myself, you get sex.

Example of clear statement, clear communication style. The win-win.

heidi w.

[Loviatar]

Focusing on the henna hay-smell:

The oils I have tried to cut the hay scent, in levels of success where 1 is the best and 5 the least effective are:

1 Geranium
2 Clove
3 Patchouli
4 Grapefruit
5 Cedarwood

I have also tried Thyme, Rosemary and Lemon, but they didnt seem to do anything at all.

Hope that helps with the scent problem.

[Stagecoach]

We discuss it all the time, and if he knows this, why would he still say things to insult me?
Im so frusterated.


First, I'm sorry he said it. :hug: But secondly... give him alittle slack! I doubt he meant anything insulting by it. He was most likely stating his honest opinion, which he hopefully can share in your relationship.

It's very likely that the smell seems much stronger to him than to you... first off, your around your own hair all day long, so you get used to any smell it might have and not notice it, also he might just be extra sensitive to smells...

At anyrate, take it with a grain of salt... if you want him to like how your hair smells, stop using Henna OR try to scent it with EO's... maybe check out some BPAL.. that stuff is great for scenting hair!

If you don't care if he likes your hair... do whatever you want!

[Ohio Sky]

Wow thank you all for your responses.

k_hepburn, everyone says the "use your friends as support" thing but honestly, I dont have any. I dont have any friends here who I feel close enough to speak to about anything, thats why when frustrated, I turn to the internet o0. I do feel somewhat bad for burdening others with my problems, because I dont like to complain, but sometimes I need to talk and I really have no where else to go. Some of the members here have become some of my closest friends, sadly enough. But I have been an obsessive-compulsive speller for as long as I can remember. (Spelling bee champ and English tutor here :D)

heidi, thank you for your long post. It really gives me alot to think about, and some good advice.

I think Ive come to somewhat of a revelation about our relationship. I know its not going to last, and I know it has nothing to do with either of us, our personalities, how we feel about each other, or how bad we want it. Theres just too many other factors. But, I love him, and when hes not beng a dick, hes the most amazing person in the world and he makes me feel like no one else ever has. For these reasons, Im not ready to give up even if I know were doomed to failure, so all I can do is make the most of what we have right now, even if it means the occasional skiff or having to wait out his issues.

[ChloeDharma]

K Hepburn and Heidi practically wrote what i was thinking. From your first post alarm bells were ringing and your posts sound so much like the things i used to say about my ex who was an abuser, though an aggressive one, but i still see similarities from what you write.

The constant subtle put downs that built to bigger and bigger put downs that led to me genuinely feeling like i had no right to live because i was such a useless awful person and all the while i justified my ex's behaviour by blaming his past, his family issues, or my own "oversensitivity" and even got to the point where i believed i deserved it and it was my fault he was doing the things he did to me.

I understand you love him....and you are the one with him so it's your call....but please be really really carefull....abuse tends to build slowly and half the time you don't realise it's happening until you are so far in you can't see a way out.
OK he has problems......we all do, that doesn't mean he can take them out on you.....you are meant to be a partner....not an emotional punchbag.

[Xanthippe]

Have you explained to him that your scalp and hair are happier on henna rather than on box dyes? He could have just been trying to be helpful.

In my mind, I think the bigger issue is maybe when he told you your hair smelled like hay? I mean, you said he told you at night, so I'm assuming you were cuddling or otherwise having couple time and your guard was probably down.

Are there any things that you ask him to do? I know this might sound weird, but if the relationship is too lopsided (i.e. he is asking you to do things but you are not asking him to do things) then both of you will just end up frustrated. I'm not saying it should be tit for tat, but it should be mutually beneficial. Hope I made sense. :flower:

[Presto]

I am agreeing with k_hepburn that we may have some warning signs. I rather consistently rankle at the proposal, when I am saying something that is true for me about how I feel and/or think, when the reply is 'you're too sensitive' Instinctively I think, "For who?"

I'm not too sensitive for me.

I like this. Can I steal it ;) and make it my own?

I related it to DH and he went off on a little rant about how usually people who are too sensitive are playing up their own little dramas. Focusing on things too closely and blowing them out of proportion. "Isn't that right? People like that who need to be told they are too sensitive are usually crazy in the head!" He says to me.
I looked at him with googly eyes and say, "My dear, I was thinking about quarrels we've had.
"But it's nice to know what you are really thinking when you tell me I'm being too sensitive!"
:bigeyes:

He immediately backtracked and said he thought I was talking about the internet dramas I'm always reading to him. :oops:

ZOMG! I laughed my head off at his expense, and he was looking pretty sheepish. But there is an element of truth in all this. I do find him to be pretty inconsiderate, and he does think I overreact and am crazy in the head. I'm taking crazy pills, after all. Celexa.
We work it out, a day at a time.

But Ohio Sky, I am glad you are not married to him. I am sorry you live with someone who makes you so uncomfortable in your own skin.
Some guys can be awfully blunt, and not even know it. My DH lives inside his own head and says rude things quite often. When I take the time to explain why he could have chosen a better way to express the rude bit, he does understand. He is the center of his own little universe.
I try to remember to take the time to explain why my hackles are up, and see if he really means things the way he originally expressed them. And that was a very hard trait to pick up. Sometimes I tell him his telepathy isn't working right and I don't think I'm picking up what he's putting down. Asking him if he means to be offensive sometimes works. Telling him he's just being difficult will make him explain his intent a little better.
I hope some of us can help you and your honey work it out for now. Don't let too much misunderstanding lie. It can be better to get it out and upset and upfront than to let it fester.
I can't argue effectively, and wind up crying. I hate it, he hates it, and I'm trying to learn how to talk around a bone of contention without getting so worked up. But it may be better to argue through tears than to run away and sulk over things, which I also do.

[Suldrun]

K Hepburn and Heidi and Chloedharma I am on the same page as you.

If you hurt someones feelings and you genuenly care about them do you say " your being to sensative"? or do you apologize? if you do believe they are being too sensative do you say it the way he speaks to you? Or do you bring it up and say I think you interpreted what I said in the wrong way, what I really ment was ___________" One is a caring way the other is a way to just make you feel bad about yourself, undermine your confidance and gives him a subtle power over you as you begin to distrust and question yourself.

I too have been in this type of relationship and I started out feeling good about myself and 2 yrs later I doubted everything I said or did it and thought I was too sensative and that I caused all the arguments . I now know the signs and have learned to trust my gut.

Best wishes

[salamander]

This sounds to me like the point when the advice columnists tell you to go to couple's counseling. Honestly, you are oversensitive, but you're oversensitive because he's trained you to be that way. When you said that your self-confidence has dropped in this relationship it sent alarm bells screaming in my head. Also, the thing where you don't have any RL friends. Why not? And relevant to this topic, does he help you find friends or undermine your friendships?

I don't know what your relationship is like beyond a couple of message board posts, so I don't know if you're in a full on emotionally abusive relationship or a healthy relationship with a few bad habits, but I do know that something is going wrong here. The interactions you've described to us aren't healthy. You need to fix them before they get worse. And since you don't have a magic wand to wave over your relationship, fixing it will probably involve getting help, which is where the therapist comes in.

[akurah]

Catherine over at HennaForHair.com sells some stuff meant to kill the henna smell. (http://www.mehandi.com/shop/gingerspice/index.html)

My boyfriend likewise dislikes the henna odor, and the next time I henna I plan to use one or both of those herbs.

[chloeishere]

Peppermint EO covers just about everything I've tried. There's another practical solution-- it's also supposed to be good for your scalp and hair health. Do you think he'll complain about your hair smelling like toothpaste? Then forget my suggestion. It's not worth it.
I also love the smell of ginger, which is apparently supposed to work well.

I don't think criticism in a relationship is innately bad. I much prefer to KNOW what my partner is thinking, so I can either make it better, or explain my reasoning. But, I'm talking about open discussion, in a non-confrontational, non-passive-aggressive fashion. If he dislikes something, and you try to talk to him to see if you can figure out something together to "fix" the problem, and he blows you off or says he doesn't want to talk about it? That's a problem for me. But I'm an aries (:D) and I appreciate bluntness and honesty.
In short, I'm saying that there are ways to mention something that isn't necessarily perfect about someone (things that can be changed, things that aren't important to the other person), without being hurtful or insulting.

I don't think he addressed the issue in the best way (AT ALL) but I don't think, in and of itself, it's such a big issue. I don't really understand why he felt it was worth mentioning though-- even if he doesn't like the smell of hay, your hair smells like hay for a few days after you henna, right? That's not a huge deal, in my opinion. A few days out of a month or two is not worth mentioning, unless the scent is absolutely unbearable. Although, I rather like the smell of hay.
And I think (I understand what it's like to be so dumbfounded by a negative comment that you can't immediately respond) that if you had responded that henna makes your hair stronger and thicker, and able to grow longer (which is what he SAID he wanted), that should have completely ended his problem. I would mention it again, and say that box dyes are bad for your hair and will make it more difficult for it to grow healthy, thick and long. See what he says, his response is key. He shouldn't blow off your explanation, or act like you are over-reacting. You are just reacting to something that HE brought up in the first place in a perfectly normal, logical way.

Finally:

And also, I have no idea why, but I was never this self conscious before I was with him. A little, yeah, but not to where I would burst into tears over someone telling me my hair smelled like hay. I dont know why

This really bothers me. The "hay" comment, in and of itself, might just be a guy being a bit blunt in expressing his opinion.
You shouldn't feel this way. And if it's been getting worse since you met him, I definitely suspect it's got a lot more to do with him than it does with you. Don't blame yourself for being over-sensitive. He's just gotten out of a bad relationship? I know it's too late now, but maybe you should have given him a few years to get out of his funk. I know, that's not practical! :) Being in a screwed-up relationship can screw up the way you deal with relationships for a while. That isn't your fault either, so don't take the blame on yourself.

Boy, I feel like I've typed out a lot of unnecessary, unrelated stuff. I think the point I'm trying to make is that communication is really the key here. If he says something bad that makes you want to cry, tell him. And don't let him dismiss it-- as someone said above, "You aren't too sensitive for yourself." He shouldn't want to make you cry. If the way he's expressing things is hurting you, than he should try to think of another way to express his concerns-- or decide if it's really that important, and maybe just drop it altogether. It's a relationship, not just you. If you've gotten more sensitive since being with him, he needs to take some of the blame and alter the way he's doing things. Because he loves you. Don't we all want to do things for the people we love, to make them happier? It's not a burden.

I hope it works out for both of you! If he makes you feel so great most of the time, than it's worth a try!
But if he keeps becoming, more and more, the guy who makes you cry, maybe you should look at this again.

115. He starts doing things incongruent with the person you THOUGHT you first got to know. People are always on their best behavior during the "courtship" phase. If that behavior starts to degrade and change into little nasty digs, or lies, or other forms of abuse, DITCH him before it gets worse. Don't wait around hoping the the guy you first fell in love with is going to resurface - that was obviously a False Image designed to hook you.

Again, good luck! I hope for the best for you.

[lora410]

We I definitely suggest couple counseling if you aren't already there. You'd be amazed at how much it helps. Sorry to drag this off topic :flowers:

[heidi w.]

Wow thank you all for your responses.

k_hepburn, everyone says the "use your friends as support" thing but honestly, I dont have any. I dont have any friends here who I feel close enough to speak to about anything,...

I think Ive come to somewhat of a revelation about our relationship. I know its not going to last, and I know it has nothing to do with either of us, our personalities, how we feel about each other, or how bad we want it. Theres just too many other factors. But, I love him, and when hes not beng a dick, hes the most amazing person in the world and he makes me feel like no one else ever has. For these reasons, Im not ready to give up even if I know were doomed to failure, so all I can do is make the most of what we have right now, even if it means the occasional skiff or having to wait out his issues.

[underscore added by heidi w. so folks know what I'm responding to]

I do know it takes a while to create and discover friends, especially ones that aren't fair weather friends (although such friends have their place too!). If you're new to an area, this can take even more time since people in given regions have a tendency to be a little gunshy about those new to an area. But I encourage you to reach out in any way that seems possible: going to art galleries and stores in your area, public meetings such as at the city level, take yourself out & by yourself to eat, go to the local candy store, events listed in the paper such as meetings. This builds the beginnings of connecting in a community and you will meet people casually. Be sure that if you like someone to exchange info so you can reach them to invite them to do something with you.

My bet is that given that you identify that you will not stay with this man for the long term, this is one parameter that makes it harder to leave, having nothing really to replace your need to have a support network of people to talk to and with.

It is not 'sad' that the internet is your only outlet. It's just the reality for now.

Remember, what is now is not always going to be this way. This includes friends and friendships, relationships, our self worth, our perspective about the world we occupy. All that matters is holding on to the vision of what you want your life to be like, and actively working the steps to create that world. No one's going to knock on your door.

As for your relationship with this man, there's no urgency to cut it off, it seems. However, the longer you live under this infrastructure with these issues, the more likely you will become yet more comfortable with it and accepting of it. Also, this means it's going to take even longer to find a better fit for you. We all have our reasons for being in difficult relationships, and don't imagine ever that every relationship is perfect. But there are better than and less tolerable.

I worry at the caveat, but I love him and when he's not doing X, everything is OK and I like it. While it's true that all of us have the capacity of being an arse, it's the frequency and methodology that really matters.

That if-then statement has me a little concerned and coincides with the other warning notices I sense in your situation. If the poor behavior/treatment is more of the time, then he is not loving of you.

I will also stand out a little alone in the crowd. No longer do I believe that love is the main thing in life, the main source of my sustenance and the highest of my needs for leading a happy and satisfying life. Love is not ultimate for me. I am willing to bet that there are plenty of people who've come to realize that we can love an individual all we want, but that doesn't necessarily mitigate effectively when a person is treating us in a manner that makes us not feel so great. Treatment is high on my list of priorities. This is how I get to love.

What I care about most in a relationship is our mutual respect, how we work things out TOGETHER (avoiding the blame game), personal accountability and responsibility. For me, it's these type of attributes that get my socks rolling up & down. Love is there, but it ebbs and flows, increases and decreases romantically, but the constant is the mutual respect and commitment to the we.

We do not necessarily choose who we love always, but we very much choose how we want to spend our time and our life. I have definitely had to part ways with people I generally liked, and yes, even loved.

None of these changes are made overnight. In many instances, the groundwork for forging out more on your own without a person has to be laid. Real logistics have to be sorted out, such as if you live together and pool money, then either discussing how to split money so you can separate, OR save money so you can afford a place of your own or with a new roommie (this may mean addressing what portions of bills are paid by you, or not). Interviewing for roommates, searching the ads or placing a seeking roommie/rental ad yourself, and going to see places. Re-organizing money, opening accounts in your name (energy bills, phone, etc). And then getting used to be on your own a little more (assuming if you live together, here)....

Those friends will help a lot for finding more separation, too. They will fill on at times that you normally would have hung with your BF. This is a time when easy friendships can be really helpful, the kind where there's not too much demand on either party. Strong intimate connection isn't required: just having a movie bud can make a difference. You can still hang with your BF, and maybe even transition to being friends. Some manage that, yet I've never been that person.

Do your best to begin to find your way to something that suits, and fits you better. I know it's hard, and difficult. I have sooooooo been there. It's hard to pass to new phase of life. But we all do, whatever the motivation (ending relationship, friendship, new career move, aging, new role in life (parent, caretaker of elderly).

Be kind to yourself. It's good to find out what you don't want. It's one way of figuring out what you do want.

heidi w.

[Ohio Sky]

You all have given me some very helpful opinions on this matter.

I think the reason my self esteem is so jacked up lately has more to do with the way our relationship started... I dont want to go into too many details, but long story short, when we moved in together I was completely dumbstruck. I didnt think we would ever get the chance to try, and because of how bad I wanted it and how long I waited I simply am too eager to make him happy. But, thats how I am a lot. I like to make people smile.

He, on the other hand, after just getting out of this awful relationship, thinks more along the lines of "You either like me or you don't, if I wanted to pretend to be someone I'm not I would have stayed where I was."Which I also completely understand. I don't want him to change, and like I said, most of the time we get along great.

I'm also bipolar, and have been off medication for several years. I don't necessarily like taking meds, but there have been times where I would have considered it if I had any insurance or could afford it. This could also be related, maybe I am just seeing things as being worse than they are because I'm a headcase :D

As for the thing where I have no friends, well, I never really have. I'm exremely introverted, whereas he is exactly the opposite, but that doesn't seem to cause as many problems as you would expect.

Honestly, there's just not many people around here I want to associate with. I live in a small, mostly retirement, area where I pretty much know everyone within a 50 mile radius. 80% of them are over the age of 70 and I met them through work when their husband/wife died. The 5-10 % of the already small population that are in any age group I would want to associate with, are on drugs, or just never grew out of the cheerleader high school phase. I have a few friends, but they all hate this town as much as I do, and they were smart enough to move away.
There are no clubs around here besides the Elks Lodge. There are no coffee shops, etc. where you would go to meet anyone. Theres nothing to do, no one to meet, unless you drive an hour to the nearest actual city, which smells like propane and cowheaps.

My BF, on the other hand, being 9 years older than me and having lived here for 30 years, has more friends here than probably anyone else I know. I get along well with his friends, and he introduces me to people a lot because he knows I don't make friends easily. I don't have a problem just hanging out with anyone, but I wouldn't necessarily want to have an in-depth conversation with most of them.

wow, that was more than I intended to write. It always looks like more in this little box though lol.

[Druid of Alba]

Like you said, you are really starting to enjoy your hair, and so you shouldn't let him take it away, he has no right to. If it smells really bad, just spray in some essential oils! I hope it helps (and the smell should fade away after a few days anyway).

[jojo]

sorry ive not read the other replies but my first thoughts when reading this was what right has he got to tell you what kind of dye to put in your hair? what a selfish bas***d he would rather you suffered with scalp problems than smell of 'hay' for a few days?
sounds a complete control freak to me , tell him to put up or shut up.

[Katze]

OhioSky, you've gotten a lot of great advice so far, and seem to be thinking and pondering, which can be a very good thing.

First of all, it's YOUR hair, and if you like henna, that's tough. I bet he has things he does/doesn't do with his body that bug you. And the cleaning thing...! Sorry, what right does he have?!? A mature, caring partner would treasure you all the more for doing what you do for him!

That aside, you seem to know that this isn't forever, so I suggest you find ways of branching out on your own. This could be sports, crafts, religion, politics, music, nature...there are all kinds of groups, clubs, spiritual/religious orgs, nonprofits out there. Why not volunteer (assuming you have enough free time) - without him? Or go on a group hike with your local birdwatchers, or mushroom foragers? Or try yoga, martial arts, pilates...anything to get you out of your head. Fresh air, being busy, sport all help with "mental illness" - they have done wonders for me.

I'm going through similar issues right now - who am I? What do I want? and it's hard even WITH my BF being kind, supportive, relaxed, flexible. I've spent so many years trying to survive, running to stand still, pleasing other people, being insecure and being told I was "oversensitive" that I often have no idea what *I* really want. But I'm working on this.

It sounds like you need to work on your support network, too. Getting people you can really trust. This takes time, but, for me, helps me feel less alone, less freaky, and more connected.

Good luck to you OhioSky, hope it gets better, and HENNA YOUR HAIR if you want!

Katze

[Irishred]

Hi Ohio Sky,

I'm not getting in on the relationship part of this conversation just the henna = hay thing.

I assume you live in the city, yes? I LOVE the smell of hay. I live on a farm so that may be part of it. They just cut and rolled the hay field and stacked the rolls near the house, oh my, between that and the river, it smells so good outside. Last time I took a trip and stayed in the city for a long time was, shoot over a year ago, when I got back it was so refreshing to have those smells again.

An idea, maybe you could take a romatic weekend or even a long day trip to or where there are farms. Make sure it is well away from city smells. Note the fresh smell of hay and such. Then when he smells your freshly hennaed hair, he may think of the romance rather than the odor. (if that makes sense).

HTH

[Ohio Sky]

I just tried to post this a minute ago and somewhere in between when I started typing and when I hit submit reply, my internet went down. :mad:

Anyways, Irishred, I live nowhere near the city (see above post). There are farms a-plenty around here, but my bf hates horses and is allergic to everything with fur or leaves. Your suggestion does give me ideas that may work, though.

For those of you who care or who have been following this thread, I do have a bit of an update.

Last night, he started doing the same kinda thing (very mildly) when I was waiting for his son to get out of the bathroom so I could do DDs hair. He asked why I couldnt go in the other bathroom to do it, and then got kinda irritated without necessarily saying anything offensive when I gave him a perfectly valid reason.

I know that he got irritated because he was tired and wanted to go to bed, and the sooner we get the kids to bed, the sooner we can go to bed. Hes an early to bed early to rise guy. But I just kinda dropped it and went about getting the kids to bed.

I waited until we were in bed to say something about it, because that seems to be when we communicate best for some reason. I approached it very directly, without getting emotional or anything, and simply told him that it bothered me that I felt like I couldnt do anything in my own house without being questioned on it.

When he started to argue defensively, I basically told him to shut up and listen. He did.

I told him that he needed to think about how he is coming across when he says these things, not just what his intentions were. Despite the fact that I dont think he really means anything by it, the way he says things is what bother me, not that he says them, so I think he is just not making himself understood or is not conveying his intentions accurately.

After I said that, he thought about it for a while, and said that he could see what I meant, and that he will try to work on it. From past experience, it seems like if I can convey myself well enough to get him to see things from my point of view, he does his best to fix what bother me, so hopefully this will get better :)

[Nevermore]

The opposite of Lamb; I'm wondering why you're with him. It sounds like he's undermining your self-confidence on purpose to me, and he knows exactly where to dig, doesn't he? If you don't take a stand and set firm boundaries, you're going to end up feeling so inadequate that you'll be afraid to do anything without his express direction. I've seen this happen.

I agree. He doesn't seem like a very supportive or kind person to me and the fact that you're making excuses for him and his effect on you ("I'm too sensitive" for example) worries me. I don't know you or your manperson, but I've been in positions where I've made similar posts/comments to friends and the person I was with WAS abusive. Abuse doesn't have to be physically or obvious, it can be verbal and insidious, tiny comments and sighs and other things that wear you down until you feel like crap all the time.

Again, I don't know you or him, but I am concerned.

[heidi w.]

I told him that he needed to think about how he is coming across when he says these things, not just what his intentions were. Despite the fact that I dont think he really means anything by it, the way he says things is what bother me, not that he says them, so I think he is just not making himself understood or is not conveying his intentions accurately.

After I said that, he thought about it for a while, and said that he could see what I meant, and that he will try to work on it. From past experience, it seems like if I can convey myself well enough to get him to see things from my point of view, he does his best to fix what bother me, so hopefully this will get better :)

Good for you for being brave and saying something. You never know where this might lead. You may have to do it again in the relative near future.

You might try working on some tactics to help him change his habit, if that's all it is.

You could ask his permission if you can point out at the time he's doing IT if you can say a code word, like IT or BLEEP or whatever. Then he can see.

You could get his permission or agreement that you could in turn reply, "Is that comment helpful right now?" So he can have a stop so he sees when he's doing it, and how, at the very moment he's doing it.

My problem when people say 'I will try" to fix or change or work or do better, is that the TRY word is its own excuse. One either commits to change, or they don't. To me, TRY is a flag word that means, what exactly. But that's my pet peave, and perhaps not yours. You get to see how it goes.

The other thing, is that if in time you do leave this relationship, then at least you have tried your level best in all possible ways to let him know what you want to have worked on and how important it is for you. IF he then does absolutely nothing and you decide to leave: well, then, you gave it your all.

I would suggest that next time this topic is up for discussion you might also include how you feel when you're placed in this position. Convey the hurt, and how it affects, say, closeness, or sex, or your willingness to do things for him.

The other thing is I'm concerned that he feels he's right. You might add something, if you ever discover that he does feel/believe/think this sort of way, that right is not always the best position to come from when working together as a team. And you could then discuss how you feel when he comes from this implied position.

This is a positive first step to sort this out. All isn't over necessarily. Given his willingness and yours to flex and be more attentive to each other while sorting this out, will make a big difference.

Finally, whenever we lodge a complaint I always recommend that if we care about, for, love someone, be sure to say that too. This part is often overlooked.

The part he missed that he could work on in future, and sometimes we have to help our loved ones by scripting them a bit, is he could have asked, what would you like me to do that would help you better or to fix this problem? Then he could hear your specifics of what would be more helpful to you when he does find a need to make a statement about how a different way than you might handle an issue, or need to make a request about, say, the hair smell.

Too often our comments are aimed too personally when all we mean is more objectively. The why didn't you use the other bathroom -- the problem in that language is the you. You points a finger. You implies blame. You implies stupidity in this instance.

When you get into this more, you may consider things about how to guide him what to say differently. IF it's the how he phrases things that bugs you, then at some point you need to tell him how to phrase it that DOES work for you.

I hope I've been helpful in some way. I'm just happy to hear that you said something and your aim is to sort this out. We get a lot of closeness when things are worked on together, and the more difficult the problem was, and then when it gets resolved, the better the closeness and bond becomes.

heidi w.

[chloeishere]

I'm glad to hear the update Ohio_Sky! I think it's definitely a step in the right direction, and hopefully the progress will continue!
I also tend to say that I'll "try" to do something, but I really do my best to do it. If I'm not absolutely positive that I will immediately be able to make a change, though, I say that I'll try. Simply because I try to hold to my word, and if I literally say I won't do something again, and slip and do it again (accidentally, once or twice sort of things), I will feel absolutely terrible. I may be taking things a bit literally though.

Good luck to you both, and I hope he continues his progress about thinking about the way he says things!