Swimmers share your experiences here

[Heidi_234]

I thought it would be good to start a thread to concentrate all the swimmers among us, regarding how to protect our hair against pool water (and also sea water, for that matter). The topic is currently scattered between several threads, and hides inside others, so I thought it could be good to have it all in one place. Especially as it becomes more relevant as summer's here. :cool:
First of all, I'd like to share my swim cap experience here. Nothing can possibly save your hair in a chlorine swimpool if you don't wear a good swim cap that fits. For us longhairs this may be an issue. My hair is not that thick, not to mention the taper and layers, around waist length, and I had tremendous trouble finding swim cap that isn't small on me, that my hair fits inside and doesn't get me headache after an hour. I have bought dozen of different caps, and neither would do. So I finally caved in (and I'm glad that I did!) and got speedo's long hair swim cap (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=4&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FSpeedo-Silicone-Long-Hair-Swim%2Fdp%2FB000FGZSNI&ei=5wkkSv3FJNDFsgamxI3HBg&usg=AFQjCNGBGDBb5U6rbnMu2UZcW7oqN6y5pw&sig2=RW9xEuaWQPV6ouaYw39y4A) sent to me from the US (I haven't seen other companies with similar products). I really really want to share this - as the cap lives up to its name. There's a space at the back where there's enough space for all my hair fit, and still more available (waiting for me to grow it longer :)). It fits rather tightly around, but unfortunately it doesn't prevent leakage. My hair ends up being damp if I put the cap on dry hair. But this is much better than hair soaking wet with chlorine, and means much less damage.
This page (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=5&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.geocities.com%2Flapswimr%2Fsc g.html&ei=5wkkSv3FJNDFsgamxI3HBg&usg=AFQjCNHanse-Hle9CcrOUCTFG9_GObqmVQ&sig2=xFLxDOytg6uLlbm6T_f8tA) also contain some info on various swimcaps.
On another note - club soda rinses. Ktani did a great research (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=604135&postcount=911) on the topic, and found out that club soda could possibly neutralize chlorine and prevent it from damaging hair. Club soda is slightly acidic, and contains diluted dissolved salts (which resembles baking soda rinse, something people use often to wash their hair. I only say that to give some perspective). The idea is to soak/dampen your hair before putting the swim cap on, and/or soak the hair after swimming before rinsing it, to further neutralized the chlorine.
Here's the article on hair and swimming (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=115).
As far as I can see, club soda is harmless, and therefore I can't lose if I do use it. If it works, all the better, if it doesn't - it's not even that pricey. And it is as good a distilled water rinse. Right now I try to do club soda and catnip tea rinse pre-soak - wanted to shoot two birds at once :). I'll post about it when I try it more.
That's about it for now. Hopefully more swimmers will join and share their ways to the battle evil chlorine monster. :)

[wackyredtangles]

I'm not a big swimmer, so I don't have much to add to this. Your troubles with finding a swim cap made me think, aren't there ladies that cover up (Muslim, some kinds of Orthodox Jews) that also swim? Would it be worth it to look for a swim cap geared to those ladies?

[Madame J]

I tried the club soda thing, and liked it. I've posted this elsewhere, but I'll repeat:

At the time, I was washing 3x a week with Terressentials Pure Earth Hair Wash, a rhassoul-clay-based hair wash, and clarifying once a week with Dr. Bronner's and an ACV rinse. That's for a baseline. So I went to the pool. I detangled my hair, french braided it, soaked the whole thing in cold water, and swam for 30 minutes (I was totally out of swimming shape!), alternating breaststroke with crawl, so my hair did get wet. Immediately after leaving the pool, I took my hair out of the braid under cold running water, and detangled after rinsing. I then went and got my shower stuff out of my locker. I applied one small bottle (10 oz., I think) of Canada Dry club soda to my hair, left it on for a minute or two, and then rinsed with warm water, letting the soda rinse over my body. I went about my shower as usual, but without washing my hair otherwise. I combed it wet, and left it down. When it dried it was smooth and shiny, and didn't smell. I would suggest applying oil to the ends afterwards, which I did not have with me.

I haven't been swimming regularly, so I don't know about cumulative effects, and I've changed my washing routine since then, but that was my experience, with a detailed methodology.

Wackyredtangles, I have seen suits for women who cover completely, and the headpiece did not look water tight. Women who wear these suits may want to wear a silicone cap under the scarf to keep water out.

[Heidi_234]

I'm not a big swimmer, so I don't have much to add to this. Your troubles with finding a swim cap made me think, aren't there ladies that cover up (Muslim, some kinds of Orthodox Jews) that also swim? Would it be worth it to look for a swim cap geared to those ladies?

I haven't seen them myself, but as far as I know, they cover up with clothes (probably pool intended, but regular clothes like skirts and shirts), and cover their head with same kind of headwear as they do in daily life. Their need is to cover up, our need is to seal chlorine out (while wear the sexiest swimsuits ;):lol:).


I tried the club soda thing, and liked it. I've posted this elsewhere, but I'll repeat:

At the time, I was washing 3x a week with Terressentials Pure Earth Hair Wash, a rhassoul-clay-based hair wash, and clarifying once a week with Dr. Bronner's and an ACV rinse. That's for a baseline. So I went to the pool. I detangled my hair, french braided it, soaked the whole thing in cold water, and swam for 30 minutes (I was totally out of swimming shape!), alternating breaststroke with crawl, so my hair did get wet. Immediately after leaving the pool, I took my hair out of the braid under cold running water, and detangled after rinsing. I then went and got my shower stuff out of my locker. I applied one small bottle (10 oz., I think) of Canada Dry club soda to my hair, left it on for a minute or two, and then rinsed with warm water, letting the soda rinse over my body. I went about my shower as usual, but without washing my hair otherwise. I combed it wet, and left it down. When it dried it was smooth and shiny, and didn't smell. I would suggest applying oil to the ends afterwards, which I did not have with me.

I haven't been swimming regularly, so I don't know about cumulative effects, and I've changed my washing routine since then, but that was my experience, with a detailed methodology.

Wackyredtangles, I have seen suits for women who cover completely, and the headpiece did not look water tight. Women who wear these suits may want to wear a silicone cap under the scarf to keep water out.
Thanks! I remembered you, and hoped you'll post. Thanks for joining in.
I don't swim regularly all the time, I'm on and off swimming depending mainly on how cold it is outside. :p But last time when I was swimming, I just used regular SLS shampoo to get the chlorine out, and I have to say after a while my hair felt weaker and in worse condition. So There is improvement. Right now I employ the club soda rinse and COing. I was looking for coneless conditioner that cotains EDTA (a substance that neutralizes chlorine, and is actually very common in shampoos/conditioners/liquid soaps!), but I had no luck at. I don't use shampoo, so I don't want to chime into my routine something that will require me to clarify frequantly. I looked at every single bottle on the shelf - conditioners, deep treatment masks, leave ins - either they don't have EDTA or they do, but also some cones or mineral oil. :justy:
I think conditioner with EDTA could be a good add to the anti-chlorine routine. I just wish I had one. :rolleyes: I thought maybe it could be possible to purchase EDTA (it's a water soluble powder AFAIK) and add it to the mix or something. Hmm...

[ktani]

Thank you for the mention and the kind words.

EDTA is not something that I think you should add to a recipe without looking into measuring it very carefully. Here is a 2008 MSDS on the product at 100% concentration. (http://www.sciencelab.com/xMSDS-Ethylenediamine_tetraacetic_acid-9927166)

"The information available to the Agency indicates that EDTA concentrations in agricultural products do not exceed 5% (by weight) of a formulated product and concentrations in products that could be used in and around the home do not exceed 1% (by weight) of a formulated product." (http://www.epa.gov/opprd001/inerts/edta.pdf)

The amounts used in cosmetics are not considered to be a problem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EDTA) but EDTA is not "readily biodegradable" (http://www.dow.com/productsafety/finder/edta.htm) and alternatives are being considered for many applications.

EDTA CHELATION THERAPY (http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/ethylenediaminetetraacetic-acid-000302.htm)

[Gothic Lolita]

I've been a competetive athlete for several years and went swimming about 4-5 times aweek for 3 hours or more. While I never had any problem with damage from the chlorine, mates with dyed, esepcially bottle blondes experienced damage.

I always rinsed my hair before swimming and more a very tight silicone cap (from Speedo, I don't know wether Arena or Tyr is available in the US) . Ok, after 3 h of hardcore trainnig your hair is wet, but it's better than nothing and keeps the tangles at bay. Heavily oiling the hair before training was also nice. Because of the heat under the cap you'd get a free oiling treatment and as a bonus less damage from the chorline.

I believe these swim suits for Muslimas are called "Turkinis" at least, that's what they're called in Germany. The Turka covers head, parts of face and the entire body and so do these Turkinis. I don't know where you could buy one, but I just want to add that I've seen people in swimming pools who reacted very unfriendly towards (right preposition?) women wearing them, because they felt "violated" by it. I think that's extremly unfriendly, imagine we western people would go bathing in an eastern country, with hair open and just wearing a bikini. Then we would violate their religion. Anyway, what I wanted to say is that one could get some nasty looks when wearing a Turkini.

[amandasmith911]

I am so glad this thread was started. My pool should be open tomorrow! I have got to get my spedo swim cap ordered ASAP. Until then i will be wetting and spreading oil and conditioner on my hair and trying not to get too wet from the kids splashing. I have club soda also. So i will be trying out all of these suggestions.

Amanda

[manderly]

Good thread, just in time for summer :thumbsup:

I've heard good things about using this cap (http://www.amazon.com/Speedo-7510000-082-Flower-Cap-Multi/dp/B000MFGFES/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=sporting-goods&qid=1243931493&sr=1-1) over a "standard" type of swim cap....but I can't remember where I heard that ;)

[ktani]

Good thread, just in time for summer :thumbsup:

I've heard good things about using this cap (http://www.amazon.com/Speedo-7510000-082-Flower-Cap-Multi/dp/B000MFGFES/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=sporting-goods&qid=1243931493&sr=1-1) over a "standard" type of swim cap....but I can't remember where I heard that ;)

Probably in the LHC swim cap thread, linked here or in the swim cap guide, also linked here. (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=276153&postcount=2258)

[nicolezoie]

It really depends on your level of swimming.. in my case I was a competitive swimmer, practicing 6 days a week, 2 hours a day, and during the summer, it was 4 hours 4 days a week, and then meets.. What all us girls did was keep things as simple as possible. We wet our hair, some of us used conditioner, and we all used tight swim caps.

However, it's been yeeaaaarrrsss since I was a competitive swimmer, and I'm certain things have changed as far as product protection goes, but the basics remain.

Wet your hair with at least the shower beforehand so that its harder for the chlorinated water to get absorbed into your hair.

Use a swim cap - a latex or a silicone one, doesn't really matter - to contain and protect your hair.

Ocean swimming - I slathered length with Olive Oil, braided, and coiled the braid into some kind of bun that stayed put in the water. In the ocean at first I would use latex caps, but after while, the oil would deteriorate the latex, so I would just leave braid alone and let the water "get to" my hair.

All these things did nothing to protect my hair from getting bleached out by the sun and chlorine, but all things considered, I liked the color those made my hair.

[Heidi_234]

Thank you for the mention and the kind words.

EDTA is not something that I think you should add to a recipe without looking into measuring it very carefully. Here is a 2008 MSDS on the product at 100% concentration. (http://www.sciencelab.com/xMSDS-Ethylenediamine_tetraacetic_acid-9927166)

"The information available to the Agency indicates that EDTA concentrations in agricultural products do not exceed 5% (by weight) of a formulated product and concentrations in products that could be used in and around the home do not exceed 1% (by weight) of a formulated product." (http://www.epa.gov/opprd001/inerts/edta.pdf)

The amounts used in cosmetics are not considered to be a problem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EDTA) but EDTA is not "readily biodegradable" (http://www.dow.com/productsafety/finder/edta.htm) and alternatives are being considered for many applications.

EDTA CHELATION THERAPY (http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/ethylenediaminetetraacetic-acid-000302.htm)
Ktani,

The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) reviewed the safety of Disodium EDTA and Calcium Disodium EDTA and approved the use of these ingredients as food preservatives (http://www.cosmeticsinfo.org/glossary.php?glossary=P#preservatives) for direct addition to food.
http://www.cosmeticsinfo.org/ingredient_details.php?ingredient_id=491

This thing is safe enough to be taken orally. I don't say it can be used freely and carelessly, but things should be put in proportions. It's relatively safe. Again, bleach can cause chemical burns, and it used not just by professionals but also in home kits all the time. So, add a measured little bit, can do alot of good, but it won't be very unsafe.


I've been a competetive athlete for several years and went swimming about 4-5 times aweek for 3 hours or more. While I never had any problem with damage from the chlorine, mates with dyed, esepcially bottle blondes experienced damage.

I always rinsed my hair before swimming and more a very tight silicone cap (from Speedo, I don't know wether Arena or Tyr is available in the US) . Ok, after 3 h of hardcore trainnig your hair is wet, but it's better than nothing and keeps the tangles at bay. Heavily oiling the hair before training was also nice. Because of the heat under the cap you'd get a free oiling treatment and as a bonus less damage from the chorline.

I believe these swim suits for Muslimas are called "Turkinis" at least, that's what they're called in Germany. The Turka covers head, parts of face and the entire body and so do these Turkinis. I don't know where you could buy one, but I just want to add that I've seen people in swimming pools who reacted very unfriendly towards (right preposition?) women wearing them, because they felt "violated" by it. I think that's extremly unfriendly, imagine we western people would go bathing in an eastern country, with hair open and just wearing a bikini. Then we would violate their religion. Anyway, what I wanted to say is that one could get some nasty looks when wearing a Turkini.

I agree on the Turkini part. It would be odd and possibly unfriendly to show up in this (http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&rlz=1B3GGGL_enIL305IL305&sa=1&q=muslim+swimsuits&aq=0&oq=muslim+swimsuit). Not to mention that I haven't seen stuff like this in stores, or on other people. The caps don't look to tight and water-proof anyway.


It really depends on your level of swimming.. in my case I was a competitive swimmer, practicing 6 days a week, 2 hours a day, and during the summer, it was 4 hours 4 days a week, and then meets.. What all us girls did was keep things as simple as possible. We wet our hair, some of us used conditioner, and we all used tight swim caps.

However, it's been yeeaaaarrrsss since I was a competitive swimmer, and I'm certain things have changed as far as product protection goes, but the basics remain.

Wet your hair with at least the shower beforehand so that its harder for the chlorinated water to get absorbed into your hair.

Use a swim cap - a latex or a silicone one, doesn't really matter - to contain and protect your hair.

Ocean swimming - I slathered length with Olive Oil, braided, and coiled the braid into some kind of bun that stayed put in the water. In the ocean at first I would use latex caps, but after while, the oil would deteriorate the latex, so I would just leave braid alone and let the water "get to" my hair.

All these things did nothing to protect my hair from getting bleached out by the sun and chlorine, but all things considered, I liked the color those made my hair.

Nice to hear from a hardcore (former) swimmer with such a long length. :flowers: Do you feel the difference between the length that's been subjected to chlorine, and the growth you had after that though?

[teela1978]

I actually think most of the damage I had when I was swimming regularly was more from the combination of chlorine/salt and sun rather than just the chlorine or salt water. A couple of years ago I was swimming regularly at an indoor pool and I really didn't have much of a problem with my hair at all... whereas back when I was a lifeguard, in and out of the pool, running around in the sunshine all day, not rinsing out until after dinner, I got a lot of highlights/bleaching and my ends weren't in the best condition. It looked nice, and my hair grew pretty long at that time, but I think the ends could've been thicker without that treatment during the summer.

The typical rinse before going in, plop on a swimcap, shampoo out works for my occasional swims these days.

ETA: I think the turkinis are neat. It's wonderful that women can keep with their normal dress and still enjoy the water. I had a friend during middle school who had to keep covered for religious reasons and would dress in old clothing to swim and it wasn't very comfortable, I think these are fabulous.

[BrianaFineHair]

My daughter is a competitive swimmer and we've had lots of hair discussions about this. I believe oiling your hair is an excellent way to protect it, but imo, the number one rule should be to thoroughly wet hair with clean water before even thinking about getting into the pool. Dry hair just soaks up the chlorine.

My advice - wet the hair thoroughy, apply your favorite oil, wear a cap. After swimming, use a good shampoo like Ultra swim to get any chlorine out and then condition well. I'd even suggest a leave in conditioner as well.

[iluvmy67cuda]

My hair is about 6" from classic now. And i just got a 24 Hour Fitness membership. My main exercise is swimming, i LOVE IT. But its been years since i've swam, and i didnt have long hair then.

What can i do to protect my hair from the clorine? Is a vinegar rinse afterwards good? Or should i get a special 'swimmers' shampoo and conditioner?

My hair is naturally dry, brittle and a nest for knots. Any advice would be wonderful. Thanks alot.

[bahannas]

I'd say get a swim cap. It's the best way to protect your hair from the chlorine, and it also keeps it out of the way. http://www.swimcapsbyfran.com/ makes some pretty cute ones. :)

You can also try a club soda rinse to rid your hair of the pool stuff.

[ktani]

Ktani,

http://www.cosmeticsinfo.org/ingredient_details.php?ingredient_id=491

This thing is safe enough to be taken orally. I don't say it can be used freely and carelessly, but things should be put in proportions. It's relatively safe. Again, bleach can cause chemical burns, and it used not just by professionals but also in home kits all the time. So, add a measured little bit, can do alot of good, but it won't be very unsafe.

My point exactly. It is about amounts used and "not to exceed the levels prescribed", for use in food.

"FDA: Link to Code of Federal Regulations for Disodium EDTA
http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFRS...
Calcium Disodium EDTA
http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFRS...
http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/cosmetics/html/consolidated_d... (http://www.cosmeticsinfo.org/ingredient_more_details.php?ingredient_id=491)"

In cosmetics, specifically helping to prevent damage to hair, P&G found
"The preference of the EDDS for copper over calcium makes it superior to traditional chelants, such as EDTA or DTPA, and more efficient at preventing fiber damage." (http://www.pgbeautyscience.com/chemistry-at-a-glance.html) That information is also here, early in the peroxide thread, before I researched argan oil more extensively (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=410016&postcount=131).

Both coconut and argan oils can chelate copper and condition hair used as a post swimming treatment (so as not to pollute pool water) with options to use club soda to soak hair before getting in a pool and as a rinse prior to using the oils, after swimming.

[LadyEliza]

Before you get into the clorinated pool, wet your hair in normal water. Once your hair is saturated it doesn't absorb much more. That will help.

And rince as soon as you get out, as well.

Good luck!

:)

[nicolezoie]

Nice to hear from a hardcore (former) swimmer with such a long length. :flowers: Do you feel the difference between the length that's been subjected to chlorine, and the growth you had after that though?

I ended my swimming days when I was 17, my senior year of high school, which was 15 years or so ago. I don't swim hardly at all anymore (can't find a cap large enough and the ones I've tried stretching in the pool broke too quickly) mainly because of the care involved with maintaining my hair at this length under ordinary circumstances. I probably could get back into the water if I set my mind to figuring it out, but for the time being I don't get in the pool or the ocean much anymore. I used to see young Native American girls when I was younger using pantyhose to protect their braids inside their swim caps, and that might be an angle I could try, but even still, the effort involved is enough on my bike, I couldn't imagine trying to figure out the pool now.

For the 12 years I was competitive, I did not know what my natural color was, and all the years of pulling caps on and off probably contributed to thinning and breakage all around my hairline. While I don't really recall feeling much of a difference after I stopped swimming (towards the end I was very good with my hair which was waist length at the time), what I did notice was the huge color change as well as dramatically thicker and faster growth. Or, maybe it just wasn't breaking off as badly as it had been, it's hard to say for sure. About two years after I stopped swimming, there was a "demarcation" line between the chlorinated/nonchlorinated hair, mostly noticeable by color. It might have been more brittle, but I am not sure; I'd always had probles with brittle hair. I think by now all the chlorinated hair has grown out.

[Heidi_234]

Okay, I was looking for some things that could possibly neutralize chlorine. And I came cross the following, maybe you'll find it useful:

:!: Top 10 Swimmers' Hair and Skin Care (http://swimming.about.com/cs/hairskin/tp/hair_skin_care.htm?terms=sun+damage+hair) (non of which I personally can get over here, but those of you how live in the US might find something).

:arrow: Nature's Gate conditioner (http://www.natures-gate.com/shop/showitem.asp?ProductId=41276528&menuId=209&withLinks=1) does contain EDTA, to my big surprise. It's tad price, but it's organic for the most part, free of cones, parabens, and mineral oil. My only doubt is that the EDTA is listed at the very end, and maybe the concentration is too low to neutralized all the chlorine (again, it's a bit pricey to be used in large quantities). If you're like me, looking for a nasties-free conditioner with EDTA to wash with after swimming, now you know at least one possible option.

:idea: Is Ascorbic Acid a possible candidate for chlorine neutralizing?

Regarding chlorinated water in washing machine water- I have found using 1/8 tsp of ascorbic acid(vit C) removes chlorine and chloramines. I am not a scientist or chemist by any means but after doing research I performed some experiments and have found that the chlorine and chloramines are removed when using vit c.
http://dld123.com/q&a/index.php?cid=11157

Not a scientific source of information though. Then I got this (http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/gen01/gen01716.htm), though the question is not whether vitamin C is affective in fighting chlorine, it's taken for granted. Maybe something like Miracle Water (http://archive.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=51184)could be used as an effective presoak and help prevent chlorine damage?
Vitamic C is also eco-friendly solution (unlike EDTA, which considered a polutant):
http://www.ilikewater.com/

:?: I could never read these pages, but it seems relevant:
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4547364.html

Anyway, that's what I've found.
Ktani, I espcially eager to hear your opinion on the vitamin C idea, I'm sure you'll have someinput on this. :flower:

[ktani]

Ktani, I espcially eager to hear your opinion on the vitamin C idea, I'm sure you'll have someinput on this. :flower:

This is from the Swimming article.

" While asorbic acid can neutralize chlorine, there is some question about the "cure" being worse than the problem, as stated in the following sources. Chlorinated swimming pool water usually contains both copper and iron.

"… it appears both hydrogen peroxide and ascorbic acid are capable of forming .... free radicals in the presence of copper salts." (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=117391)


"Vitamin C may also act as a pro-oxidant in the presence of transitional metal ions, such as iron. (http://www.skinandaging.com/article/5395)"


"We have previously shown that Vitamin C (ascorbic acid) can trigger hydroxyl radical formation in copper contaminated household drinking water." (http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~content=a791428776~db=allww.)


3. Where does that leave the problem? Fresh water to rinse the hair or a citric acid rinse. However, I am not happy with these as answers either.

".... never use vinegar or any other acid in an attempt to neutralize .... chlorine bleach. It will destroy the hypochlorite that is the active ingredient of chlorine bleach, but only by turning it into much more caustic and dangerous chemicals, including .... chlorine gas. .... amount of chlorine gas produced by a mild acid such as vinegar is small, but it won't do your fabric any good, and stronger acids can produce lethal amounts." (http://www.pburch.net/dyeing/FAQ/neutralizingdischarge.shtml)

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=115

Club soda is acidic but not as acidic as ascorbic acid, citric acid and vinegar can be and you do not have to play with dilutions. Club soda is "open and pour."

[Flynn]

I believe these swim suits for Muslimas are called "Turkinis" at least, that's what they're called in Germany. The Turka covers head, parts of face and the entire body and so do these Turkinis. I don't know where you could buy one, but I just want to add that I've seen people in swimming pools who reacted very unfriendly towards (right preposition?) women wearing them, because they felt "violated" by it. I think that's extremly unfriendly, imagine we western people would go bathing in an eastern country, with hair open and just wearing a bikini. Then we would violate their religion. Anyway, what I wanted to say is that one could get some nasty looks when wearing a Turkini.

I don't know if anyone has mentioned it yet, but they're marketed as Burkinis or Burquinis in Australia, the word for the traditional head covering being Burqua in Australian English. You can get them from Ahiida (http://www.ahiida.com/), an Australian company started by a Lebanese Australian lady to give Muslim women more options when it comes to spotswear (and, of course, swimwear). I think that she only has the swimwear line up on the site at the moment, though. The Surf Clubs offer them as a uniform option. (Imae has a slimmer-fitting one... you can get much more modest ones if you need... but the slim fits can prove much more modest once you're in the surf!)

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0603ecG3p3dSH/610x.jpg

As for swimming hair care... I just braid tightly before and use heaps of conditioner after, and hope for the best.

[Heidi_234]

This is from the Swimming article.

" While asorbic acid can neutralize chlorine, there is some question about the "cure" being worse than the problem, as stated in the following sources. Chlorinated swimming pool water usually contains both copper and iron.

"… it appears both hydrogen peroxide and ascorbic acid are capable of forming .... free radicals in the presence of copper salts." (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=117391)


"Vitamin C may also act as a pro-oxidant in the presence of transitional metal ions, such as iron. (http://www.skinandaging.com/article/5395)"


"We have previously shown that Vitamin C (ascorbic acid) can trigger hydroxyl radical formation in copper contaminated household drinking water." (http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content%7Econtent=a791428776%7Edb=allww.)


3. Where does that leave the problem? Fresh water to rinse the hair or a citric acid rinse. However, I am not happy with these as answers either.

".... never use vinegar or any other acid in an attempt to neutralize .... chlorine bleach. It will destroy the hypochlorite that is the active ingredient of chlorine bleach, but only by turning it into much more caustic and dangerous chemicals, including .... chlorine gas. .... amount of chlorine gas produced by a mild acid such as vinegar is small, but it won't do your fabric any good, and stronger acids can produce lethal amounts." (http://www.pburch.net/dyeing/FAQ/neutralizingdischarge.shtml)

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=115

Club soda is acidic but not as acidic as ascorbic acid, citric acid and vinegar can be and you do not have to play with dilutions. Club soda is "open and pour."
Thanks ktani, I knew there was something, but I could find it. Is it the acidity of the ascorbic acid that sets of the reaction, or the substance itself? I mean, is should be very diluted (like in the miracle water recipe), so it won't be half as acidic for all it's worth. I also saw hydrogen peroxide as a chlorine neutralizer. :p I'm even not sure which is worse. :rolleyes:
btw, I have a funny tale - I went to buy some more club soda, and accidentally bought the flavored kind. Gladly I had pre-mixed catnip/soda for the pre-soak, otherwise I'd had no way of soaking my hair (the flavored stuff contains sugar :scared:). But I did use it as a rinse, I figured a quick rinse couldn't make my hair sticky with sugar (it didn't), but at least it got few vitamin B's added. :laugh:
No worries, I bought normal additive-less club soda now. Not risking this again. :p
I wonder though, there's alot of vitamin C shower filter, do they actually release free radicals into the water then?

[ktani]

Thanks ktani, I knew there was something, but I could find it. Is it the acidity of the ascorbic acid that sets of the reaction, or the substance itself? I mean, is should be very diluted (like in the miracle water recipe), so it won't be half as acidic for all it's worth. 1. I also saw hydrogen peroxide as a chlorine neutralizer. :p I'm even not sure which is worse. :rolleyes:

btw, I have a funny tale - I went to buy some more club soda, and accidentally bought the flavored kind. Gladly I had pre-mixed catnip/soda for the pre-soak, otherwise I'd had no way of soaking my hair (the flavored stuff contains sugar :scared:). But I did use it as a rinse, I figured a quick rinse couldn't make my hair sticky with sugar (it didn't), but at least it got few vitamin B's added. :laugh:
No worries, I bought normal additive-less club soda now. Not risking this again. :p
2. I wonder though, there's alot of vitamin C shower filter, do they actually release free radicals into the water then?

1. Peroxide is not a chlorine neutralizer. It like ascorbic acid, can form free radicals in the presence of copper, which is found in most tap water and more so in chlorinated swimming pool water.

2. I am not familiar with shower filters containing ascorbic acid.

Strong acids mixed with chlorine can release chorine gas. Not too much to worry about post swimming IMO, but club soda to me is a better and easier choice.

I am glad to hear that your hair was not sticky.

[Heidi_234]

1. Peroxide is not a chlorine neutralizer. It like ascorbic acid, can form free radicals in the presence of copper, which is found in most tap water and more so in chlorinated swimming pool water.

2. I am not familiar with shower filters containing ascorbic acid.

Strong acids mixed with chlorine can release chorine gas. Not too much to worry about post swimming IMO, but club soda to me is a better and easier choice.

I am glad to hear that your hair was not sticky.
Wait, so dissolved vitamin C for a post-swimming rinse is a good idea?

[ktani]

Wait, so dissolved vitamin C for a post-swimming rinse is a good idea?

I would rather use club soda than get even more free radicals. I do not suggest the Vitamin C in replacement but it is up to you.

"Hydrogen peroxide like ascorbic acid (Vitamin C), can form free radicals in the presence of copper." Free radicals = damage.

The strong acids and chlorine gas refers to citric acid and vinegar but Vitamin C can be a strong acid as well. Still not the best options, IMO. It depends on how strong a solution you make. I think club soda is the best and easiest option. It is not a strong acid and you do not need to think or worry about the dilution.

[Heidi_234]

I would rather use club soda than get even more free radicals. I do not suggest the Vitamin C in replacement but it is up to you.

"Hydrogen peroxide like ascorbic acid (Vitamin C), can form free radicals in the presence of copper." Free radicals = damage.

The strong acids and chlorine gas refers to citric acid and vinegar but Vitamin C can be a strong acid as well. Still not the best options, IMO. It depends on how strong a solution you make. I think club soda is the best and easiest option. It is not a strong acid and you do not need to think or worry about the dilution.
One thing that makes me second guess it is the fact that it's not intended for this use. So I'm not sure if the amount of salts that make it work is even high enough to counteract the obviously big amount of chlorine. It's obviously very diluted. It could be like diluting just a drop of honey in 60 oz of water and think it would give as good lightening results (regardless the pH, just the sole amount of the honey).
I raised this concern before, and I know it's your best answer on the topic. Remember - I do it, because it can't harm, but possibly help.
Regarding the vitamin C thing, it is common for tap water to contain some chlorine. Does ACV rinses (or citric acid rinses) aid in creating free radicals, and possible damage? Does the Miracle Water actually full of free radicals as well? Chlorine is damaging on it's own, not because of free radicals. So, which is worse, chlorine or free radicals?

[ktani]

One thing that makes me second guess it is the fact that it's not intended for this use. So I'm not sure if the amount of salts that make it work is even high enough to counteract the obviously big amount of chlorine. It's obviously very diluted. It could be like diluting just a drop of honey in 60 oz of water and think it would give as good lightening results (regardless the pH, just the sole amount of the honey).
I raised this concern before, and I know it's your best answer on the topic. Remember - I do it, because it can't harm, but possibly help.
Regarding the vitamin C thing, it is common for tap water to contain some chlorine. Does ACV rinses (or citric acid rinses) aid in creating free radicals, and possible damage? Does the Miracle Water actually full of free radicals as well? Chlorine is damaging on it's own, not because of free radicals. So, which is worse, chlorine or free radicals?

Most of the things people use here on these boards are "not intended for this use". Some things work and some do not.

Miracle water is citric acid not ascorbic acid.

Yes there is some chlorine in most tap water but not enough to worry about in most cases.

The bottom line is whether club soda works for you. If it does not, try something else.

[Heidi_234]

I'm not sure. My hair got weaker for the past couple of months. Otherwise I would fuzz over this so much.
I wonder who added the extra tags on this thread... :ponder:

[ktani]

I'm not sure. My hair got weaker for the past couple of months. Otherwise I would fuzz over this so much.
I wonder who added the extra tags on this thread... :ponder:

When did you stop using the club soda straight and start diluting it with catnip?

That weakens its ability to do its thing, IMO.

I did not notice the tags.

Have you tried a post swimming coconut oil conditioning? That may help.

[Heidi_234]

When did you stop using the club soda straight and start diluting it with catnip?

That weakens its ability to do its thing, IMO.

I did not notice the tags.

Have you tried a post swimming coconut oil conditioning? That may help.
I use undiluted club soda for the rinse from the very beginning, and I still do. I started soaking my hair with catnip instead of tap water before putting on the swimcap, and recently started to mix club soda with the catnip for it's chlorine neutralizing properties. So all in all, I didn't made my routine less protective, but more. The weakening is gradual and slow, but my hair felt stronger before I started swimming regularly again.
My hair is always oiled with coconut oil. After I wash, I apply coconut oil again, or else my hair dries into a dry mess. I reapply coconut oil (and shea butter on the ends) before going to sleep practically everyday. My hair just doesn't do too well without it, it's too dry.

[ktani]

I use undiluted club soda for the rinse from the very beginning, and I still do. 1. I started soaking my hair with catnip instead of tap water before putting on the swimcap, and recently started to mix club soda with the catnip for it's chlorine neutralizing properties. So all in all, I didn't made my routine less protective, but more. The weakening is gradual and slow, but my hair felt stronger before I started swimming regularly again.
My hair is always oiled with coconut oil. After I wash, I apply coconut oil again, or else my hair dries into a dry mess. I reapply coconut oil (and shea butter on the ends) before going to sleep practically everyday. My hair just doesn't do too well without it, it's too dry.

A club soda presoak can only do so much, depending on how wet your hair is getting during your swimming.

From the swimming article (I added the bolding for this post). "Damage to the hair is going to be done in the pool or salt water, if the hair gets wet. Pre-treated hair can only stand up to so much salt water or chlorine. However, with the right after swim rinse and chelating out the mineral salts, further damage to the hair from swimming in chlorine pools or salt water, can be prevented. .... The amount of damage minimizing of coconut oil or coconut and argan oils used as a pretreatment before swimming or club soda, would depend on how wet the hair would get and for how long the hair would be exposed to both sea water and chlorine. Both the club soda and coconut or coconut and argan oils can be used as follow-up treatments. The club soda is a rinse (you can leave it on the hair for a few minutes) and the oils for about an hour or less before rinsing/washing and conditioning."

After swimming, straight club soda can neutralize chlorine. Catnip will not protect your hair against chlorine and in my opinion, neither will diluting it with club soda. I think you have made 2 treatments that can be effective on their own, for different reasons, ineffective by mixing them. You have watered down the catnip to be almost useless and you have done the same to the club soda, all at once. I do not understand your logic there at all.

I think that you would be better off mixing the coconut oil with argan oil, as a conditioning post swimming treatment rather than shea butter.

[Heidi_234]

I mix half catnip half club soda, and I brew the catnip twice as strong, and let it steep overnight. When you think of catnip, the way you think about it is that it should be made in perfect settings and done properly to get max conditioning and color. When I use catnip in my swimpool hair care routine, I think - I need to soak my hair so it wouldn't suck the chlorine in, so why would I use tap water when I can do something beneficial - like catnip soak. But chlorine still gets in, extra protection wouldn't hurt - maybe I should use something that neutralizes it - I only have club soda on my hands for that. Salts are still salts, there's no way around them, if they effectively (like you claim) neutralize chlorine in few moments in the shower, why would they do the same when on in my hair under the swimcap? I can't brew the catnip in the club soda, I can't infuse it otherwise, club soda on it's own leeched the henna out (whether it's unbound henna or not) and my hair felt significantly worse than usual, so the only way to do it is mix both. The catnip works, it worked for me again just as well in the mix form too, club soda maybe, possible, hopefully provides extra protection. Maybe not.
I might switch to soaking with catnip and applying conditioner with EDTA over it.

[ktani]

I hope that you find a method or products that you are happy with.

[Heidi_234]

I hope that you find a method or products that you are happy with.
So do I.

[10 characters]

[shadowclaw]

I don't know where you could buy one, but I just want to add that I've seen people in swimming pools who reacted very unfriendly towards (right preposition?) women wearing them, because they felt "violated" by it. I think that's extremly unfriendly, imagine we western people would go bathing in an eastern country, with hair open and just wearing a bikini. Then we would violate their religion. Anyway, what I wanted to say is that one could get some nasty looks when wearing a Turkini.

I don't know why anyone would give someone wearing a Turkini a nasty look. The suits don't look that odd. They are certainly a step up from Victorian Swimwear (http://www.fashion-era.com/images/SocialHistory/swimpad500.jpg). A lot of the ones in the Google search look very modern and fun, with little skirts and bright colors. Besides, who cares if the person next to you is covered from head to toe instead of just being covered in the "important" areas. Sometimes people just don't make sense.

As for haircare, I found that washing and conditioning my hair after a swim helps a lot, as does conditioning before getting in the pool. I also mentioned in another post, swimming in your own pool or a friend's pool is a much better idea than a public pool or water park. When I had a pool, we checked the ph everyday to make sure we didn't have too much or too little chlorine. Public pools, however, tend to put way too much in the water, which will be more likely to fry your hair. I once swam in a pool that took the paint off the watch I was wearing shudder: I have solved the chlorine problem for myself, though, but not swimming in pools. I prefer lakes and creeks.

Also, does anyone know if Baquacil is damaging to hair? It's a non-chlorine alternative that works decently. We had a bit of an algae problem on the ladder when we used it, but the water was clear.

[LiraelQ]

Conversation with my roommate yesterday (she has fine, short, thin hair and has been asking my hair advice to keep it nice):

Roommate: I'm going to the pool! Want to come?
Me: No, thanks, the chlorine bothers me.
Roommate: Really? I love chlorine, it smells so great!
Me: Hm. Well, I like to swim, but the chlorine is bad for your skin and hair, so I don't really do it.
Roommate: Oh, chlorine is GREAT! It makes my hair BLONDE!
Me: *stares* Yeah, but it's really bad for it.
Roommate: But it makes me BLONDE!
Me: ...so does Clorox bleach.
Roommate: Same thing.
Me: *headdesk*

:rolleyes: I think we figured out why your hair is so fragile...

[Heidi_234]

LiraelQ, lol!
I'm amazed that women out there still have hair on their heads. Or maybe it's LHC made me :crazyq:
:p