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Rain76
May 28th, 2009, 08:02 PM
Hi everyone. I am almost @ BSL, and I have very fine/fragile/thin/easily broken/virgin hair. Obviously, this makes it kind of difficult to grow long. My goal is waist. My main concern is breakage. I currently wash & condition my hair every other day, and wear it up probably 60% of the time. I do not use elastics. I use a leave in (usually Giovanni) most days. I have sort of "broken off" ends a bit, but that is to be expected, as I haven't trimmed my hair at all in over a year. The ends are uneven, but I wouldn't call them split. I also notice breakage around the middle of my head mostly, and even little stray crazy hairs at the top of my head. I am not really sure if they are new hairs or breaks. I don't know how to tell the difference. My 1st question is: Would the Giovanni leave in be considered a protein treatment, since it has soy protein in it? 2nd question: What can I do about preventing breakage? Even when I wear my hair up, I worry about breakage from hair toys going through my hair, and just the weight of the toy in my hair all day, and the twisting, etc. But of course wearing it down has its own problems as well. Also, I do take a liquid multi vitamin supplement, and sleep with it in a braid most of the time. Could I maybe benefit from a stronger protein treatment? I am afraid to try one, because my hair isn't really damaged, just fragile. Thanks in advance for any advice on this matter!:)

SpecialKitty
May 28th, 2009, 08:22 PM
I'm assuming you don't use heat at all? Sounds like you take really good care of your hair. I'm in the same boat as you are. What I've been doing is wearing hair up most of the time, washing less frequently (if you wear your hair up most of the time, you may be able to cut back on washing), protecting hair at night (maybe try a high bun or a buff instead of a braid), and doing some targeted S&D on the worst splits. I think your crazy short hairs are new growth, but you can tell by looking at the end of the hair - if it is tapered, it is new growth. Congrats on reaching BSL though! I haven't been able to make it there yet, but I'm getting close :D

OhioLisa
May 28th, 2009, 08:25 PM
If the hairs have tapered ends, it is new growth. If the ends are blunt, it is most likely breakage. If you are protein sensitive, it might be one reason for breakage. Putting your hair up too tight might also be causing breakage. I don't think Giovanni leave-in could be considered a protein treatment per se, but if you are sensitive to proteins, you might be overloading your hair with habitual use. I would stop using it for a while to see if it makes a difference. Not trimming should not really contribute to breakage.

If it were me, I would try more moisture treatments than protein. Good luck. :)

chrissy-b
May 28th, 2009, 09:12 PM
It sounds like you take really good care of your hair already and it shows - your hair is beautiful. Unfortunately, some breakage is inevitable due to our hair type. Sometimes even when I'm using a smooth stick for an updo I hear a little snap.

My hair really loves protein and it loves the giovanni leave-in. You could try going without that leave-in and using a little oil instead to see if your hair likes it better. Another thing that has given my hair more strength, which you might like to try is cassia. It only changes the color of my grey hairs to a very pale blonde and gives it amazing shine and body. People have had luck with catnip treatments too, you might want to look into that.

Deborah
May 28th, 2009, 09:27 PM
I used to get 'mystery breakage' too. In my case I found that it was caused by using barrettes. Once I stopped using them, the problem solved itself. Only you know whether this is a possibility for your hair. Bobby pins can cause this too. Having seen Ficcares, I think they could cause the same problem for some folks, probably depending on how tight you wear them.

Good luck with solving this! :)

FullMoonTrim
May 29th, 2009, 12:25 AM
Have you tried taking a Hair Multi? Or just BioSil liquid silica? I have heard great results from women who have used that to make their hair stronger.

kdaniels8811
May 29th, 2009, 03:27 AM
My hair broke off and would not grow until I started using catnip tea soaks. It (almost) stopped shedding and the split ends disappeared. I have not trimmed my hair in a year so it is the catnip. There is an entire thread on it, the secret is soaking your length for at least a half hour. And it works best over clean, unconditioned hair. The tea is the conditioner. Good luck!

Rain76
May 29th, 2009, 06:06 AM
My hair broke off and would not grow until I started using catnip tea soaks. It (almost) stopped shedding and the split ends disappeared. I have not trimmed my hair in a year so it is the catnip. There is an entire thread on it, the secret is soaking your length for at least a half hour. And it works best over clean, unconditioned hair. The tea is the conditioner. Good luck!

Actually, I forgot to mention that I had been using catnip tea as a leave in until the next wash. I guess I have just been lazy with it, but I was using it every time I washed my hair for a few weeks, and didn't see any difference. Should I just stay with it longer? I wasn't sure if it was helping or not. I guess I am just impatient:) Also, I didn't notice that it made my hair feel especially conditioned, and it wasn't easier to comb out, either. (I saw where some ladies had great results with softness, etc.) I even used 2x the amount of catnip per 2 cups of water (1 tsp per 2 cups distilled h20). Anyway, maybe I should give it another shot & stick with it this time. Thanks for the advice!

Rain76
May 29th, 2009, 06:08 AM
Have you tried taking a Hair Multi? Or just BioSil liquid silica? I have heard great results from women who have used that to make their hair stronger.

Well, right now I am taking Peter Gillham's Organic Liquid Vitamin for the past 2 weeks. I have definitely noticed a great difference in my nails, nothing yet on my hair, but of course, that will take longer for noticeable results. BioSil sounds interesting. Is that a hair treatment, or a supplement? Thanks!

Rain76
May 29th, 2009, 06:14 AM
It sounds like you take really good care of your hair already and it shows - your hair is beautiful. Unfortunately, some breakage is inevitable due to our hair type. Sometimes even when I'm using a smooth stick for an updo I hear a little snap.

My hair really loves protein and it loves the giovanni leave-in. You could try going without that leave-in and using a little oil instead to see if your hair likes it better. Another thing that has given my hair more strength, which you might like to try is cassia. It only changes the color of my grey hairs to a very pale blonde and gives it amazing shine and body. People have had luck with catnip treatments too, you might want to look into that.

Thank you for the nice compliment! I actually do use oil sometimes, but I have to be careful, because my scalp is already oily & flat (fun!), so I use it sparingly. I have heard so much on here about cassia. I have some clear henna treatment @ home (smells & looks like grass). Is that the same thing? If so, I didn't have good results with it a year ago, when my hair was shoulder length, and it took a LONG time to get it out, and it tangled my hair BAD! Is there a liquid form of cassia I could use? Thank you for your advice!

Rain76
May 29th, 2009, 06:17 AM
If the hairs have tapered ends, it is new growth. If the ends are blunt, it is most likely breakage. If you are protein sensitive, it might be one reason for breakage. Putting your hair up too tight might also be causing breakage. I don't think Giovanni leave-in could be considered a protein treatment per se, but if you are sensitive to proteins, you might be overloading your hair with habitual use. I would stop using it for a while to see if it makes a difference. Not trimming should not really contribute to breakage.

If it were me, I would try more moisture treatments than protein. Good luck. :)

Thank you for your input:) Can you recommend a good moisture treatment, besides oil, and preferrably natural? I tried the SMT, and it didn't do anything for me.

Rain76
May 29th, 2009, 06:19 AM
I'm assuming you don't use heat at all? Sounds like you take really good care of your hair. I'm in the same boat as you are. What I've been doing is wearing hair up most of the time, washing less frequently (if you wear your hair up most of the time, you may be able to cut back on washing), protecting hair at night (maybe try a high bun or a buff instead of a braid), and doing some targeted S&D on the worst splits. I think your crazy short hairs are new growth, but you can tell by looking at the end of the hair - if it is tapered, it is new growth. Congrats on reaching BSL though! I haven't been able to make it there yet, but I'm getting close :D

Thank you! I am almost there, just a couple more inches till I hit the bottom of my bra strap:) I really HAVE to wash my hair every 2 days, because of my scalp being on the oily side.

MsBubbles
May 29th, 2009, 06:24 AM
Hairtwin! I hear you on the every-other-day-wash, and flatness. I have been doing the catnip soaks too, but I follow Ktani's instructions as closely as I can, which means I only use 1tsp in the mix, and I soak it anywhere from 30 mins to 1 hour, but no more. Then I rinse it out and put conditioner on - otherwise I'd be faced with serious damage trying to comb all the knots out afterwards. I also did not get the wonderfully tangle-free results that others did.

I don't have any other suggestions at this point other than watching your updo's and seeing if whatever you're using to anchor them is causing damage.

Your hair looks soft yet glass-like in your avatar! (That's a compliment!).

Rain76
May 29th, 2009, 11:13 AM
Hairtwin! I hear you on the every-other-day-wash, and flatness. I have been doing the catnip soaks too, but I follow Ktani's instructions as closely as I can, which means I only use 1tsp in the mix, and I soak it anywhere from 30 mins to 1 hour, but no more. Then I rinse it out and put conditioner on - otherwise I'd be faced with serious damage trying to comb all the knots out afterwards. I also did not get the wonderfully tangle-free results that others did.

I don't have any other suggestions at this point other than watching your updo's and seeing if whatever you're using to anchor them is causing damage.

Your hair looks soft yet glass-like in your avatar! (That's a compliment!).

Thank you for the compliment:) I love your hair, too! Yes, it seems as though we are hair twins. I wash my hair in the morning before work, so I wouldn't be able to leave it in for a while, then rinse it out later. That seems like a lot of work, too. Gone are the days when I didn't care so much about my hair, dyed it, ponytailed it every single day, etc, used cones, or whatever was on sale, and my hair was gloriously long (see pics in profile) & thick & healthy. Boo hoo. That is thanks to age & heredity, I guess. Ok, enough of my pity party. Thanks for the advice!

chrissy-b
June 9th, 2009, 11:48 PM
Thank you for the nice compliment! I actually do use oil sometimes, but I have to be careful, because my scalp is already oily & flat (fun!), so I use it sparingly. I have heard so much on here about cassia. I have some clear henna treatment @ home (smells & looks like grass). Is that the same thing? If so, I didn't have good results with it a year ago, when my hair was shoulder length, and it took a LONG time to get it out, and it tangled my hair BAD! Is there a liquid form of cassia I could use? Thank you for your advice!

Oh, I'm so sorry for not getting back to you sooner. It's hard to say if what you have at home is cassia (if it says cassia obovata as the ingredient then it is, if it says lawsonia inermis then it's henna).

The first few times I used cassia it made my hair feel drier too. I've remedied this by using catnip tea to mix the cassia. That has helped A LOT. It makes the application and rinse so much easier. I also CO until all the cassia is out and then add a thicker conditioner to soak for a while afterward. The catnip tea has made the biggest difference, though. You can also try adding a little conditioner to your mix or even oil. I know some people have had luck doing that.

heidi w.
June 10th, 2009, 07:52 AM
If I were in your shoes, I would try to forego the Giovanni leave-in stuff. I wonder that your breakage isn't in part caused by protein overload.

I would try switching to using an oil (oiling) as your leave-in.

When there's either too little or too much protein in the combination of one's hair products (or one single product, OR one single product can tip the balance to too much, for example), hair can break off. Typically the sign of this is that it's a distinct and SUDDEN OCCURRENCE. You are not describing a sudden occurrence. Nor are you describing A LOT of breaking suddenly. (These are the two usual symptoms of protein overload/insufficiency.)

However, I am a fine hair type, and many leave ins have to be handled differently by fine hair types. There was a time I too tried a purchased leave-in, and this breakage thing occurred that I am describing. I read the bottle and it declared that for fine hair types this leave-in actually should be rinsed out!!

So, I would try this one change and see what occurs. I would first forego the leave-in, yet not use oiling. I would try this for a max of two weeks or at least 3 hair washes, just to see if any behavior in hair breakage occurs--notably an improvement.

THEN if breakage slows down or ceases, I would switch to learning about how to oil.

Oiling is a replacement leave-in.

It's important to make one change at a time so you can be sure how something is working for you. Yes, for these hair washes or weeks your hair will be a little different in behavior for the lack of a leave-in, but at least you'll find something out and can be a decision based on that information.

Are your updos always the same, in the same place with pretty much the same securing method? IF yes, that hair line and breakage around the middle of the head may be a result of always doing the same thing in pretty much the same spot.

Even the braid tie off -- change its location each night!

Those hairs on top of the head: more than likely, new growth. Even if blunt ends. More than likely new growth. New growth does have a tapering effect, yet I have had plenty of new growth that this was not the case.....

Are you a brusher? Consider switching to combing.

Also, consider washing a little less frequently, such as every other day if you do it daily.

Hope this helps,
heidi w.

Katze
June 10th, 2009, 08:01 AM
Thank you for your input:) Can you recommend a good moisture treatment, besides oil, and preferrably natural? I tried the SMT, and it didn't do anything for me.

SMT works really well to moisturize my fine, damaged hair, but I do use a natural, gentle conditioner in it as well as PURE ( no additives) aloe. Might this help?

What jumped out of your original post for me is that washing every other day seems like an awful lot at your length. My hair is similar, though wavier, and I can get away with washing once a week or less if I wear it up, but prefer every 4 days or so at the moment. I also put leave in or oil in my hair every single day. Goth Rosary conditioner is a nice light leave-in.

hth and hope you find what you are looking for. :)

Rain76
August 22nd, 2009, 07:01 PM
As of about 2 months ago, I started washing my hair only Mon,Wed,Fri. By Sunday (which is church day for me, but it is only a couple of hours sitting down, so not a lot of people looking @ me a great deal of time usually) it is disgustingly oily, but I wear it up. That seems to help the look of it. My hair is very oily, so I absolutely cannot go more than every other day during the work week. I hate the look of overly oily hair.

StarShine
August 22nd, 2009, 08:33 PM
I have to wash my hair every other day as well, sometimes every day. I don't really think it is that big of a deal, especially for our hair type. What I've found helps is not using the same shampoo too many washes in a row. Right now I'm alternating between completely natural, a gentle nearly natural, and a SLS shampoo.

Something else I do to cut down on oiliness and increase volume is don't use conditioner after washing, perhaps use it before. But as a conditioner I use half water half aloe juice as a leave in. It makes my hair more manageable and cuts down on the slippery feel so it stays up better.

Also, wearing my hair up religiously turned out to be not so great. It is just so fine and floaty it takes a lot of twisting and re doing throughout the day. I started getting breakage, esp at the scalp. I cut to about APL and have been wearing it down this time as I grow it out and it is in better condition. Not all hair advice works across the board, I've been having better luck by gently breaking "the rules."

Hope that helps, your hair looks great btw.

Rain76
August 23rd, 2009, 02:24 PM
Thank you, StarShine! Yes, I have also noticed quite a bit of breakage right around where I always twist it for an updo. I do wear my hair up most of the time (except when it is drying), but I try to do different updos, to not further damage it. I have an immense amount of breakage underneath my neck...All that hair is much shorter than my longest strands. I don't know what caused it, except for wearing it down, and it gets caught up & tangled from friction. Because of that, I HAVE to condition every time I wet my hair. I like using conditioner, though. It doesn't weigh my hair down too much.

spidermom
August 23rd, 2009, 02:47 PM
I think that very small (about 1/4 inch) trims can be very helpful with hair that breaks off easily. Once a split starts, it gets wider and wider as it travels up the shaft, bits breaking off all the time.