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Moezland
April 8th, 2008, 12:56 AM
Hi All!

I haven't been posting much for various reasons, so I'm almost embarrassed to do it now, but I could really use some advise.

Last year about this time, I noticed that when I would comb or finger comb my hair, I would get these short pieces of broken hair in the sink or on the floor. I know it's got to be breakage because most of these small pieces are not tapered and no little bulb attached:rolleyes:. The thing is my hair still seems to be doing ok and growing fine - but it's irritating to me to no end that this is still happening one year later. The other thing is, I see more of these short pieces when my hair is wet versus dry. They still show up in the sink when my hair is dry, but just not as many.

Currently, I'm co washing with HE Drama Clean and conditioning with Biolage Ultra-hydrating Balm. I apply coconut oil or jojoba oil to damp hair and let it air dry. I wear my hair up daily, and I haven't used heat in ages, I also do henna glosses about once a month. And I also try to clarify about once every 2 to3 weeks.

What could this be? Do I need more moisture or protein? Or am I just obsessing?

Because I henna I've been trying to stay away from too much protein - I'mjust not sure what to do, and I can't seem to stop thinking about finding a solution those short little hairs. Any help would be appreciated:flower:.

Bloodflower
April 8th, 2008, 01:29 AM
It seems to me you do everything for your hair there is to do. The only thing that comes to my mind is that clarifying every two to three weeks could be too much. How do you clarify? Maybe it strips away too much from your hair?

Moezland
April 8th, 2008, 01:43 AM
Thanks for responding, Bloodflower:flower:! I use Redkin Cleansing Creme to clarify - it doesn't seem to dry my hair too much, but then I also try to deep condition with my moisturizing conditioner afterwards.

I'm really stumped. Something I've noticed is that when I use heavier oils, such as shea or avocado butter or even EVOO, my hair seems to get worst, like the oils are blocking out moisture or something. It's really odd. I would think that because my hair is coarser that this would not be an issue, but it is. Could this be old damage just catching up to me? I'm also wondering if the henna glosses I'm doing could be blocking out moisture - is this even possible? Gah! So many questions left unanswered:confused:.

Flaxen
April 8th, 2008, 02:03 AM
Do you make your henna mud with lemon juice? If so, that could be causing the breakage. Try using just warm water. Henna will release its dye that way. Also, when you say you avoid protein because you use henna, why is that? Henna itself is not a protein treatment. :flower:

missy60
April 8th, 2008, 11:22 AM
HI Moezland its really nice to see you again how have things been going? Have you checked out the article lately about hair breakage? Its sometimes a good place to start to figure out the problem http://blackbeautyblackhair86911.yuku.com/topic/511/t/Hair-Breakage-and-Shedding-101.html

Moezland
April 8th, 2008, 11:07 PM
Do you make your henna mud with lemon juice? If so, that could be causing the breakage. Try using just warm water. Henna will release its dye that way. Also, when you say you avoid protein because you use henna, why is that? Henna itself is not a protein treatment. :flower:

Hi Flaxen! Thanks for the suggestion. Actually, I don't use lemon juice, but I do use boiling water and a cheapie conditioner in my henna glosses. Could the hot water be causing it to react too strongly?

The reason I avoid protein is because I read some place that henna sort of acts like protein and if you use henna plus other products with protein that you may have issues with protein overload. Could I have misunderstood?

Moezland
April 8th, 2008, 11:11 PM
HI Moezland its really nice to see you again how have things been going? Have you checked out the article lately about hair breakage? Its sometimes a good place to start to figure out the problem http://blackbeautyblackhair86911.yuku.com/topic/511/t/Hair-Breakage-and-Shedding-101.html

Hey Missy60! Good to see you again too!! Things have been going well - other than this whole short hairs thing that is driving me a little stir crazy, LOL:rolleyes:. Yes, I read the article just recently- it's funny because last year when this came up, it was actually you who introduced this article to me - I had never seen it before. I think that there is a lot of good information in it, and I've tried basically all of her suggestions, but I'm still having this issue:shrug:. I'm clueless:confused:.

missy60
April 8th, 2008, 11:54 PM
I guess I was really impressed with the article and think it has alot of good information. I was having some breakage problems also. I know what my problems is though damaged hair. I bleached it about a year ago and the ends are the last of it hopefully I had been trimming them off regularly but not gaining any length. I decided to not trim until June(which would of made me 6 months) and see if I could get some length. I did cave in and do a small trim, more like a dusting because my ends were just so ragged I couldnt take looking at them. I also notice the little broken hairs when my hair is wet but I think thats because I just pay more attention then.

salamander
April 9th, 2008, 12:22 AM
I have that problem, too. It's our ends breaking off. I improved things a lot by keeping my hair really moisturized and combing instead of brushing. The combing is really important. I have a seamless horn comb and I detangle carefully, rather than ripping through my ends like I used to, and never comb when wet. Even with this, my ends still break some, but things have gotten a lot better. Maybe I still have old brushing damage, or maybe the ties on my braids are still too rough, or maybe I'm just always going to have breaking ends. I don't know. I'll watch this thread, definitely.

Flaxen
April 9th, 2008, 12:27 AM
Hi Flaxen! Thanks for the suggestion. Actually, I don't use lemon juice, but I do use boiling water and a cheapie conditioner in my henna glosses. Could the hot water be causing it to react too strongly?
As long as the mud is cool when you put it on your hair, the hot water you make it with won't cause breakage.


The reason I avoid protein is because I read some place that henna sort of acts like protein and if you use henna plus other products with protein that you may have issues with protein overload. Could I have misunderstood?
If that's what was said, I don't think you misunderstood, but there is some misinformation there.

The two components of henna that act on hair are hennotannic acid and lawsone. They are tannins and not proteins. What they do is bind to the protein in the hair and make it stronger (and color it, obviously :silly: ).

Now, tannins are also astringents, so that could be confusing some people into thinking they've got protein overload, but henna shouldn't cause breakage - just the opposite, actually. If hair feels dry after henna, it's not because henna is protein.

It really sounds like you are treaing your hair well, but something is still happening. What conditioner do you use in the henna glosses?

Moezland
April 9th, 2008, 12:59 AM
I guess I was really impressed with the article and think it has alot of good information. I was having some breakage problems also. I know what my problems is though damaged hair. I bleached it about a year ago and the ends are the last of it hopefully I had been trimming them off regularly but not gaining any length. I decided to not trim until June(which would of made me 6 months) and see if I could get some length. I did cave in and do a small trim, more like a dusting because my ends were just so ragged I couldnt take looking at them. I also notice the little broken hairs when my hair is wet but I think thats because I just pay more attention then.

I agree - it does have a lot of good information - i just wish some of it would work for me, LOL. I'm beginning to wonder if I'm like you where I'm just starting to pay more attention to it. I don't think so though, because lately I've been seeing those little hairs on the floor, even when I'm not really doing much to cause them. I mean finger combing lightly shouldn't cause a cluster of those little buggers on the floor or in the sink, should it:shrug:. I also have old chemical dye on my hair, so perhaps that could be it too.

Moezland
April 9th, 2008, 01:08 AM
I have that problem, too. It's our ends breaking off. I improved things a lot by keeping my hair really moisturized and combing instead of brushing. The combing is really important. I have a seamless horn comb and I detangle carefully, rather than ripping through my ends like I used to, and never comb when wet. Even with this, my ends still break some, but things have gotten a lot better. Maybe I still have old brushing damage, or maybe the ties on my braids are still too rough, or maybe I'm just always going to have breaking ends. I don't know. I'll watch this thread, definitely.

What are you using to moisturize your hair?

Oh, I hear you regarding combing - I usually use my pearson mason comb, but today when I was detangling I decided to use my new denman brush. I should have just stuck with my comb, because there where a lot more hairs, even more than before:rolleyes:. So, no more denman on damp hair for me.

I have to admit, it's good to know I'm not the only one with this issue:flower:. My hair is at about 29" (just gave myself a trim) and my goal is waist, which is about 34"( I'm 5'11"). It looks like your hair is at 30", do you see any thinning of your ends at all? I haven't really noticed any thinning n my ends, but I can't imagine I can keep going like this without eventually noticing something:confused:.

Moezland
April 9th, 2008, 01:13 AM
As long as the mud is cool when you put it on your hair, the hot water you make it with won't cause breakage.


If that's what was said, I don't think you misunderstood, but there is some misinformation there.

The two components of henna that act on hair are hennotannic acid and lawsone. They are tannins and not proteins. What they do is bind to the protein in the hair and make it stronger (and color it, obviously :silly: ).

Now, tannins are also astringents, so that could be confusing some people into thinking they've got protein overload, but henna shouldn't cause breakage - just the opposite, actually. If hair feels dry after henna, it's not because henna is protein.

It really sounds like you are treaing your hair well, but something is still happening. What conditioner do you use in the henna glosses?

I use vo5 champaign kiss in my henna gloss. Say - Do you think that hard water could be my issue? Previously, I was trying to do my entire wash with distilled water, but with time constraints and other things, I've switched to washing with tap water and then just doing my final rinse in distilled water. My waterhere is very hard - I always notice how dry my skin is after bathing or showing - I really have to slather on the lotion or my skin looks like the cracked sahara, LOL:rolleyes:. I know washing in all distilled water would be best, but I thought that perhaps doing my final rinse with distilled water would be sufficient - maybe it isn't:shrug:.

salamander
April 9th, 2008, 10:13 AM
I CO and use coconut oil by the bucket. I could not grow my hair out without coconut oil. I do an overnight deep oiling about once a week, although less often now that my hair seems to be recovering from years of being horribly dry. I still have to do it moderately often, though, or my hair doesn't even hang like hair, it poofs out. Then I oil my ends every night, fairly heavily. I sleep with my hair in two braids, and oil the tassels. I have to oil when wet, or it has no effect.

Misery loves company, right? :) My ends are certainly thinner than my roots, but that's just the way hair is, so I don't worry about it. The last inch or so is fairly wonky, and I'm hoping that's old brushing damage and will go away. It looks OK, though. It really helps to have curly hair, it makes any thinning much less obvious. I never trim, my hair looks fine without it. I do S&D, though. It makes me feel better to cut the breaks off than let them break on their own, and I think it cuts down on breakage a bit, because the damaged ends aren't there creating friction, if that makes any sense.

Anje
April 9th, 2008, 11:48 AM
What are you using to moisturize your hair?
Personally, I'm a big fan of the SMT for moisture. Oils are nice to seal it in, but they really don't cut it when my hair is feeling dry.

Curlsgirl
April 9th, 2008, 12:11 PM
Personally, I'm a big fan of the SMT for moisture. Oils are nice to seal it in, but they really don't cut it when my hair is feeling dry.Ditto for me!

Flaxen
April 9th, 2008, 05:47 PM
Say - Do you think that hard water could be my issue?
*light bulb!* According to a quick google, the answer is "quite possibly." In that case, your hair needs lots of moisture. I'd try a weekly moisturizing treatment (SMT or a thick, moisturizing conditioner). Doing the entire wash with distilled water sounds so daunting to me that I'd stick with the final rinse for now and see if more moisture doesn't help.

Moezland
April 9th, 2008, 11:33 PM
I CO and use coconut oil by the bucket. I could not grow my hair out without coconut oil. I do an overnight deep oiling about once a week, although less often now that my hair seems to be recovering from years of being horribly dry. I still have to do it moderately often, though, or my hair doesn't even hang like hair, it poofs out. Then I oil my ends every night, fairly heavily. I sleep with my hair in two braids, and oil the tassels. I have to oil when wet, or it has no effect.

Misery loves company, right? :) My ends are certainly thinner than my roots, but that's just the way hair is, so I don't worry about it. The last inch or so is fairly wonky, and I'm hoping that's old brushing damage and will go away. It looks OK, though. It really helps to have curly hair, it makes any thinning much less obvious. I never trim, my hair looks fine without it. I do S&D, though. It makes me feel better to cut the breaks off than let them break on their own, and I think it cuts down on breakage a bit, because the damaged ends aren't there creating friction, if that makes any sense.

I really like coconut oil too, but I've noticed that when I use too much oil on my hair my hair tends to get worse - it's as if the oil is blocking out moisture or something:shrug:. I really can only add a lite layer after I wash or I'll be in trouble. I think what I was doing wrong though was adding too much oil when my hair was dry, I can try adding it only when wet - like spritzing on non wash days and then adding a little more oil. I will give that a try.

I agree about cutting rather than letting them break on their own - think that can actually just make matters worse, because I think the damage can more of the shaft of the hair:shudder:.

Moezland
April 9th, 2008, 11:35 PM
Personally, I'm a big fan of the SMT for moisture. Oils are nice to seal it in, but they really don't cut it when my hair is feeling dry.

I have heard about the SMT, but I've never tried it - I will have to give it a try - thanks for the tip:flower:.

Moezland
April 9th, 2008, 11:37 PM
*light bulb!* According to a quick google, the answer is "quite possibly." In that case, your hair needs lots of moisture. I'd try a weekly moisturizing treatment (SMT or a thick, moisturizing conditioner). Doing the entire wash with distilled water sounds so daunting to me that I'd stick with the final rinse for now and see if more moisture doesn't help.

Aha! So maybe that's what it is. Wow! I hope so, because at least then I can try to solve the problem. Whew! Ok - so I'm off to find the SMT recipe - hopefully this will be the solution I'm looking for:cheese:.

Thanks sooo much for your help, Flaxen:flowers:.

Flaxen
April 10th, 2008, 12:13 AM
You are most welcome, and I hope you're coming to the end of the breakage! :grin: