Am I balding ?? Could it be genetic

[karenpetal]

Hey All
I had a serious doubt - I am not really shedding hair (not atleast visible when bathing or combing) - but my pony circ has gone down from 4.5 (yes i was really thick thnx to LHC routines) but now it is some where 3.75 - 4.0(just about) - all men from my mom and dad side are egg bald and mom has thin hair too ... I am afraid if I am goin got bald too ... I am in love with my hair (as probably all of us here are and a bit paranoid too :()
Any suggestions ---

[Riot Crrl]

That is still a big circumference. I don't think you need to worry, yet. If you are though, the doctor might be a good place to start.

Male pattern baldness doesn't really affect women. Your mom is thin too, but what has her hair care routine and diet been like over the years?

If it is genetic, I think all you can do is take the best care that you can of your hair and overall health. Including not becoming anxious about it. I don't know about most people, but nothing does anti-wonders for my overall health including my hair, like anxiety.

[ChloeDharma]

Could it be possible that when you measured it as 4.5 you got it wrong? I can't really see how you can loose over half an inch from your ponytail circumference without noticing lots of shedding, especially over as short a time as a month (i'm assuming you measured it as 4.5 when you joined LHC?).

I would keep an eye out for thinning though given the genetics you have.....it's a common misconception that androgenic alopecia (male pattern baldness) only effects men....women can get it too, just not as dramatically as men and usually in a different pattern.
That said, don't be paranoid.....Riot Crrl made a very important point about stress, it does no good at all, and if you do start thinning dramatically then as she said, go to the doctors first to check for any health problem that could be causing it.
In the mean time.....make sure you are well nourished, take good care of your scalp and you should be fine :)

[karenpetal]

Thank you RiotCrrl and ChloeDharma

Hey RiotCrrl - thanks for your replies - I know anxiety is really bad for hair and in general health - thats why I wanted to get this out

ChloeDharma - I havent been measuring since a month (I am an older LHC member - just created a new account after site was down) - its been over 6-7 months

Also unfortunately the male balding pattern affects me because I am a male !

Thanks for the inputs - but I am a little distressed by the loss

[Anje]

I think you're a lot better off looking at your hairline and at that spot on your crown to see if you're experiencing any male-pattern thinness/baldness. Don't get too paranoid, though. True male-pattern baldness is on the X chromosome, and you only got a Y chromosome from your father (barring some rather harmless trisomy fun). Your best clue would be to look at your mother's father's hair, and the hair of your mother's brothers. They might indicate whether she carries the gene, but not necessarily that she passed it to you, even if she does.

Thickness of hair normally varies seasonally and throughout life, from what I've observed here, though many people find that ponytail circumference gradually decreases with age, both male and female.

If you decide you're definitely thinning in the typical male areas, there are a few things you can do. There are topical and oral (prescription only, I think) drugs that block testosterone/DHT delivery to the scalp or destroy it there before it affects the follicles. There is also a device called a laser comb (http://www.lasercomb.net/default.aspx) that was discussed on this site several months back. While generally met with skepticism, some people got one and reported that they thought it was working. It has a fairly long trial period, if I remember correctly, so you don't have to keep it if it doesn't work.

[Blueglass]

Maybe Rogain or Bosley medical. I would need to see up close pics of any area of concern to give an informed opinion.

[ChloeDharma]

Also unfortunately the male balding pattern affects me because I am a male !

Ooops, sorry i assumed because of your name that you was a woman.

Even if you do have androgenic alopecia there's loads you can do to combat it....from the rogain etc approach, to supplements.....that essential oils study on alopecia areata also had a man with MPB in it and his hair regrew too.
So don't get too stressed about it even if that is what's going on.....there's plenty of hope for you yet :)

[karenpetal]

thanks folks for all the advice ChloeDharma - its fine some how it rhymed with my name so I chose it -
IBlueglass I will post some upclose pictures soon

[angelthadiva]

Was your measurement before or after you cut layers in? That may have affected the thickness too?!

[karenpetal]

hey Angel - this was after my layers but I dont have layers all the way up - its more of a V trim + I tie a high pony and then measure it :(

[heidi w.]

Male pattern baldness doesn't really affect women.


INCORRECT.

Male pattern baldness does occur to women, and in greater numbers than folks may realize.

http://www.invisiblehair.com/AboutUs/AboutWomen.aspx?HairlossStatistics
"Hair loss in women has long been considered a taboo due to social stigma. It's much more common than most people think - roughly 30 million adult women in North America are experiencing thinning hair and hair loss, and some 50% of all women do by age 50, The psychological effects for women can be devastating."

http://community.womenshairlossproject.com/home.php

http://www.hairsurgery.com/women.php
"Women can have hair loss at any age and the hair loss may not have any heredity association. In the female equivalent of male pattern baldness - androgenetic alopecia or hereditary baldness - hair loss in women is less specific to the crown of the head and is generally seen as more of a thinning of the hair.

But there are other causes as well. Women appear to be more subject to hair loss due to dietary reasons than men. Low iron levels are the most common dietary reason women experience hair loss, although other vitamins and minerals may be involved. Excessive Vitamin A intake can lead to hair loss. Some have reported that zinc can interfere with iron absorption, thus resulting in hair loss.

Hair loss can in women can become evident after menopause and also occasionally appears after pregnancy. "

http://www.drpistone.com/Female-Hair-Loss/Facts-about-Female-Hair-Loss/Hair-Restoration/

and tons more sites selling products to improve this condition. They all cite statistics (where from I do not know) ranging from 25-30% of women in the US have at least hair thinning, that's serious enough to be of great concern.

In my average day of walking around, I see plenty of evidence of women with seriously thinning hair, and actual balding, typically on the crown and some hairlines problems, too.

However, BEFORE we go to the extreme conclusion of assuming baldness here, let's back up and review the situation more thoroughly.

According to your info under your Avatar, you are 21. This is a timeframe when many women experience their first time they may notice the volume of hair decreasing a little bit. Usually nothing overly alarming. We all age, and we don't suddenly become gray, or crinkly. All of it is gradual, over a long time. Nothing about our world remains constant, and this includes our bodies. While you may not specifically note an increase in shedding, the hair as a whole, through it's cycle of shedding, resting, replacing, on average, is replaced nearly entirely about every 4 years or so, depending a bit on genetics and such.

My money is on that this is very normal and nothing to worry about.

But you can begin with a simple blood test to determine a few potential causal factors:

1. Low iron levels, both in bloodstream and bone (marrow) (or either) could be low. It could be low enough to get a reading via a blood test of being low; OR it could mere ly be borderline. Borderline is enough to cause a fairly constant increase in hair shedding such that over time hair volume can decrease. A simple blood test will identify if this is of concern. The solution is typically quite simple: improve the diet to include a bit more iron, or take a daily vitamin that has low, low levels of iron in it (or consider such once a week or so if diet in general is otherwise healthy). I do NOT recommend taking an actual iron pill MOST ESPECIALLY without the instruction of a doctor. Iron levels can be toxic and cause systemic problems if too much is taken. This should be a last recourse AND instructed and followed by an advising and qualified physician.

The medical profession generally has something to say about the idea that women tend to have more potential for issues with iron levels because of the menstrual cycle. This presents the possibility of a dovetail between one's cycle (hormones) and iron levels. One of my hair books discusses the importance of how to go about checking for iron storage by timing the test appropriately and around Day 22-29 or something like that, as this is typically the timeframe of actual bleeding, and the storage levels may get a bit depleted out of the bones at this juncture.

2. Any more recent stress, illness (especially hospitalizations and/or use of medications) ..... these types of things can indeed cause a reduction in hair volume. The improvement for stress is obvious: try and reduce or eliminate it. Some ways are breathing exercises, more sleep, exercise, quiet time. For illness, we are what we are, but this is a stressor in addition to a the specific health issue, so the above (and other ideas you could have on your own or at your doctor's suggestion) ideas will help with managing a health problem. Various medications can indeed affect hair volume, so double check with the medication packaging, or via internet searches, or asking your advising physician directly.

3. Any hormonal problems. Polycystic fibrosis, perimenopause (can begin as much as 15 yrs before actual menopause), menopause

4. Thyroid. Thyroid concerns is a rather specific issue, and easily discovered (typically) with a blood test. It's one of the most underdiagnosed problems, from borderline to full on issues, for women as a health concern. There are two types of thyroid, hyper- and hypo- , and they have different sets of symptoms. In more advanced cases, the hair falls out in clumps. A blood test is a typical starting point. Many women in their 40s - 50s experience hair thinning and don't even realize that the problem could be overcome if they received an accurate diagnosis of a thyroid issue.

4. Pregnancy. This is actually hormonally related. During gestation, hair tends to thicken because the shift in hormones, process-wise, means the hair sheds less. Upon birth, there's a bit of delay once either birth is over and/or breastfeeding is over, the hair begins to shed quite noticeably, to return to its status. This is a reflection of the body's changes in hormones for the full cycle of birth and breastfeeding. Usually it takes about 2-3 months AFTER either birth or breastfeeding is done for the shedding to begin. HOWEVER, there are enough cases to be considered common enough where the hair loss goes beyond the status quo, and does become thin. (For example, hormone shifts can also cause changes in hair color at this time, too. A little more rare, but it happened to my sister after her second birth of her child.)

5. Updos or forms of binding hair that is too tight on the scalp. Not allowing hair to relax in its natural pattern. Binding hair so that hair is pulled during the day can cause traction alopecia. Typically not only will the hair volume decrease, but a change in the hairline placement is usually noticed.

6. Not a clean enough scalp or hair tools that aren't likewise cleaned. This is a big surprise. Thorough rinsing out of hair cleansing products is important, as is a method of washing that ensures the acid mantle balances are maintained. Washing hair is more about hygiene of the scalp. Scalp skin needs cleaning: hair length not as much. Therefore, cleaning the hair tools is also important because it is possible to re-introduce bacteria that is on tools back into clean hair/scalp.

Here's info on the acid mantle.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_mantle
http://www.smartskincare.com/skinbiology/sebum.html
"....As sebum and sweat mix up on the skin surface, they form a protective layer often referred to as the acid mantle . Acid mantle has a particular level of acidity characterized by pH from about 4 to 5.5. A pH of 7 is considered neutral, above 7 is alkaline, and below is acidic. The pH of acid in the human stomach, for example, is usually from 1 to 2, which is highly acidic. The skin, on the other hand, is mildly acidic. In addition to helping protect skin from "the elements" (such as wind or pollutants), acid mantle also inhibits the growth of harmful bacteria and fungi. If acid mantle is disrupted or loses its acidity, the skin becomes more prone to damage and infection. " [underscore by heidi w.]

Notice that use of 'bacteria' and fungi. That can be on hair tools too. So clean the tools well. Use scrub brushes to ensure comb teeth are clean; put plastic combs in top tier of dishwasher for disinfecting OR mix up in a mist bottle rubbing alcohol and water, and after washing the hair tool thoroughly, mist this on for disinfecting. I can't tell you how many friend's combs I've cleaned and they never knew the film of oil and grime was on the tool. This sticky substance can capture that bacteria! Same is so of brushes. In fact, for those with scalp skin issues, such as I have with Seborrheic Dermatitus (exzema, psoriasis might be the same concern), clean tools is VITAL. I would in these instances recommend replacing brushes once a year when scalp skin issues are present.

This gives a nice graphic of the hair growth cycle
http://www.pg.com/science/haircare/hair_twh_21.htm

THINGS TO DO
Check your diet (be sure to have the appropriate fat as many vitamins can't deliver without the mechanism of fat)
Check your stress
If it's been a while since you've had a blood test screen, maybe it's time
Exercise
Vitamins: Vit. A, Vit. B6 (Bcomplex), Ultra Hair ... more to know on this

heidi w.

[Redheaded Raven]

Heidi W as usual lots of great info, but the poster did say they were male. So much would not apply to their case. :shrug:

I am dealing with a large shed though and I know that stress as well as celiac disease accounted for a lot of my shed. I was interested in some of the other causes as well. As always I love your font of information.

Fortunately my hair is growing back, slowly. But I have a lovely halo now.:cool:

[karenpetal]

Hey Heidi W thanks a lot for lot of great info but I am a male and mbp is a big issue for me - thanks again

[Riot Crrl]

Heidi W, I did not follow all of your links, but the quotes and the rest of your post did seem to point to hormonal, stress, illness, mechanics and diet contributing to female hair loss. I never said that women don't experience thinning or baldness, absolutely they do. I do not however think that it's for the same reasons as male pattern baldness, which is what I said.

Karenpetal, I apologize, I made an assumption about gender based on your username.

[ChloeDharma]

Heidi W, I did not follow all of your links, but the quotes and the rest of your post did seem to point to hormonal, stress, illness, mechanics and diet contributing to female hair loss. I never said that women don't experience thinning or baldness, absolutely they do. I do not however think that it's for the same reasons as male pattern baldness, which is what I said.

Karenpetal, I apologize, I made an assumption about gender based on your username.

I can't speak for her, but i think Heidi was correcting you on the statement you made that women don't get Male Pattern Baldness...aka Androgenic Alopecia. Unfortunately women do get this type of alopecia as well.

[karenpetal]

Hey as per what i researched women do get alopecia as well
Thanks for ur response
Its ok RiotCrrl - np

[Riot Crrl]

Male Pattern Baldness...aka Androgenic Alopecia

From what I understand, those are not strictly equivalent. Androgenic alopecia is now used as an umbrella term for both male- and female- pattern baldness, which can have very different causes, some of which are not even related to androgens. Females have androgens, there is no doubt about that. It just isn't always what makes their hair fall out.

[ChloeDharma]

From what I understand, those are not strictly equivalent. Androgenic alopecia is now used as an umbrella term for both male- and female- pattern baldness, which can have very different causes, some of which are not even related to androgens. Females have androgens, there is no doubt about that. It just isn't always what makes their hair fall out.

If a womans hairloss is not due to androgens then it wont be termed androgenic alopecia.....alopecia is the umberella term for hairloss.....but the word put with it, androgenic, areata, totalis, universalis, etc indicate the specific type. Androgenic alopecia in either males or females is caused by androgen hormones...or more specifically the by product DHT which attaches to the follicle reducing the anagen phase and over time causing the hair to stop growing. This is why Androgenic Alopecia is more evident in post menopausal women.

[birdiefu]

I may be wrong, but I though perhaps she was referring to the actual pattern of hairloss. Where in men, it tends to be sections (front hairline, spot in back, or horseshoe shape) that go while other areas have 'normal' thickness, and it's more of an all-over thinning with women.

Does anyone have a link to the research on genetics of Male Pattern Baldness, BTW? DH and I have an ongoing mini-debate on if our son will go bald as every male in my family is very bald (brother started at 19), but there are no bald men in DH's family. Also, is the Androgenic Alopecia that women get due to the same gene(s)? So for example, if a woman is unlucky enough to get two X chromosomes with the balding gene (that also effects men), she will get the same condition yet exhibit the hairloss in the feminine pattern?

[ChloeDharma]

I may be wrong, but I though perhaps she was referring to the actual pattern of hairloss. Where in men, it tends to be sections (front hairline, spot in back, or horseshoe shape) that go while other areas have 'normal' thickness, and it's more of an all-over thinning with women.

Ah, sorry i missunderstood then. Yes the pattern is different, in women it tends to be a more general thinning then in more advanced cases a balding starts from the crown and spreads a bit but a hairline is normally maintained.

http://www.aafp.org/afp/20030301/1007.html

http://www.androgeneticalopecia.com/hair-loss-biology/hair-loss-genetics-men-women.shtml

http://www.docshop.com/education/dermatology/hair-loss/types/

There's a few links.....but it seems like there's no definate answer to your question so far i'm affraid.

[khyricat]

my understanding is it follows the men in your MOTHERS family- so her siblings.. yet I have an uncle who is as bald as his father...

anyway- DH is MTF and has found that on the meds to help with transition his hair is growing back.. not super thick, but his male pattern baldness has reversed greatly since he started taking androgens.. it's not fully back.

Amie