Henna fades when mixed with just water?

[Heidi_234]

After my second BAQ application faded from my hair, I was puzzled, as henna might fade if it's the first application or if the henna is not BAQ. I was neither but the henna faded nevertheless. I asked about it in the H4H forums, and was told that henna mixed with just plain water tends to fade, while henna mix with something acidic doesn't.
I've heard before here that Catherine's tap water might be wierd, which reqires her to mix way more lemon juice than the rest of us, therefore I took the advice with a grain of a salt. So, did you experience fading of BAQ henna mixed with plain water?
I have to mention, that the water I used it bottled water with pH raging between 7.5 to 7.8, which is on the alkaine side. I did a third application (before asking in H4H about it), and added lemon juice just to tip it back to the acidic side. But is it nessecery, or there might be something else that made my henna fade?

[ilovelonghair]

I heard that too so I used to use lemon juice, but my henna kept fading. Then I was told here on the forum that lemon actually destroys the color in henna :confused:. Now I use henna with chamomille tea, it gives a much better color, but the fading still happens. I do henna glosses every 2 to 3 weeks now.

[Unofficial_Rose]

My experience is the same as yours and Catherine's on this one - so maybe my tapwater is weird too?

BAQ plus camomile tea plus a tablespoonful of lemon juice, left overnight before applying = a really dark stain that never fades, like, ever!

BAQ plus water, put on immediately = a somewhat lighter stain that fades.

[Lile]

I'm also interested in this!
I hennad my bottom layer two times (and it was already hennad before a year ago)and it fades rather quickly.I'm not worried about this,because I don't want henna to be very permanent or strong.
I never mixed it with lemon juice,but with ACV and water,and once only with ACV,but it still fades for me.

I guess it has something to do with the different shampoos,conditioners I use.And also pre-wash oilings take the colour out for me.
Unfortunately I don't remember which were the "bad ones" from my henna's point of view(I use mostly herbal SLS free ones).
Some of them really strip out a lot of colour!

[Natalia]

Hmmm i might be able to use this to my advantage. Ive decided against henna becasue of its permenance but maybe if i did a hendigo and mixed it so it is designed to fade i could live with it till it faded and grew out.... I will keep an eye on this

[Gothic Lolita]

I always wonder the same thing and nobody seems to have an answer!

My henna glosses fade quite much. At first I used to squirt a bit of citric acid in my mix, plus the acidic conditioner. The color was nice, but faded after time. Then I read the the acid destroys the dye molecule, so I stopped the citric acid, but followed with an ACV rinse after coloring. Still the color fades, but not as much as it used to.

I also never wait for dye release, and just leave my gloss on for about 1h. This always seem so short to me when I see how all the other member run around with it for 4h or even longer and have waited for dye release.

[Kirin]

I don't know why the henna is fading just using water. I only used water in mine, and an hour of bleach hasn't gotten it out yet LOL.

[Heidi_234]

I going to try chamomile tea next henna. I saw the strand test pics from H4H and that convinced me to go for it.
Natalia (and Kirin) - when I say that the henna fades, it doesn't fade completely, it's just that the red becomes less pronounced after some time. For me faded henna is when I had dark red color and somehow it got back to auburn/brown-with-orange. The initial color change would probably be permanent, and PITA to remove.

[Aisha25]

When I mixed mine with just plain water one time it did fade on me abit,I had to do another app with orange and cloves water. Then it stayed like anything. So its not just you, for me too.

[Kirin]

I going to try chamomile tea next henna. I saw the strand test pics from H4H and that convinced me to go for it.
Natalia (and Kirin) - when I say that the henna fades, it doesn't fade completely, it's just that the red becomes less pronounced after some time. For me faded henna is when I had dark red color and somehow it got back to auburn/brown-with-orange. The initial color change would probably be permanent, and PITA to remove.

Ahh, sorry, misunderstood. It could be that the henna you are using is old or has been stored improperly (not by you either, but where you got it from). Most henna should be stored in the freezer (the dry powder) to keep it fresh and air tight. If its been exposed to air or heat, it will weaken its stain and holding power.

[Heidi_234]

Ahh, sorry, misunderstood. It could be that the henna you are using is old or has been stored improperly (not by you either, but where you got it from). Most henna should be stored in the freezer (the dry powder) to keep it fresh and air tight. If its been exposed to air or heat, it will weaken its stain and holding power.
It is stored on the freezer, it's pretty new too. I ordered it from H4H and checked the packaging to make sure it's all good.
I see I'm not the only one with fading henna. I have to say that it's 2.5 weeks after my 3td applications (the one with a bit of lemon juice) and it doesn't seem to fade as much yet. I'll wait for a while longer to make sure though.

[wintersun99]

As was my experience. I have tried just water or just chamomile but given all else the same, henna did fade (mind you, that does NOT mean it went away) on me. However, using water with splash of ACV yielded bright, dark henna that did not fade.

To each his/her own on this one...

[Autumnberry]

Last time I used an ACV rinse (1 tsp ACV to 3 cups water) after I rinsed the henna out with conditioner and had very little orange-colored shower water compared to previous hennas. The water ran orange the first two shower rinses as opposed to ten rinses!

When you compare fade, you really have to compare it with the post 7-day oxidized result, even if you really love the intense red. Sometimes I miss that first-week bright red!

Another comment would be that while the chamomile tea feels great on the scalp, it is much less acidic that black tea or diluted lemon juice. Therefore, the dye releases more quickly--and demises more quickly. I let it brew too long and ended up with a weak stain last time.

[Heidi_234]

Last time I used an ACV rinse (1 tsp ACV to 3 cups water) after I rinsed the henna out with conditioner and had very little orange-colored shower water compared to previous hennas. The water ran orange the first two shower rinses as opposed to ten rinses!

When you compare fade, you really have to compare it with the post 7-day oxidized result, even if you really love the intense red. Sometimes I miss that first-week bright red!

Another comment would be that while the chamomile tea feels great on the scalp, it is much less acidic that black tea or diluted lemon juice. Therefore, the dye releases more quickly--and demises more quickly. I let it brew too long and ended up with a weak stain last time.
When I say faded I mean that week or two after application it was dark deep red and one month after application it was brown-with-orange all over again. Sorry if that wasn't clear enough.

[Themyst]

I used BAQ Yemeni henna from Henna Sooq for my first full henna application. I used only water. I know it 'took' - I was really scared afterward, my hair actually glowed red and people stared at it. It calmed down within a week and thustly:eyebrows: started to fade. Every shower since has resulted in an orange stream of water running down the drain. It's been about two months I think and it's almost all rinsed out, although I was told that my hair looked reddish in the sunlight yesterday. But then, I already had an abundance of red highlights in my hair anyway.

I just did a henna gloss using the same henna last night. I used two tablespoons of henna, dye released it with water, then mixed it with four cups of conditioner. I also added 200g of cassia. I don't see any color difference in my hair.

It's been a while since I've posted a pic. I've been having a hard time with my camera but I'll try again today. So far though, henna hasn't taken in my hair like it does so easily with others. Perhaps it is my original color, or maybe my hair type just needs several full applications for it to really take hold.

[marialena]

I use henna for seven years and it does not fade though I dilute it only with boiled water.
But henna has to be fixed with an acidic rinse after its use, vinegar ACV, lemon juice etc.
Otherwise it fades..

[cobblersmaid]

I have done two applications with water and a splash of WV. Both have faded pretty badly. I may try leaving it on longer this time, but I am begining to think it may just be my hair.

[Gothic Lolita]

Something just jumped into my mind:

Henna is coating the hair, not like chemical dye penetrating and giving the pigment another colour. That's why henna looks so differently on all heads, the color effect depends on texture, thickness and virgin color.
Now, what just came into my mind was this: Alkaline rinses/products have the reverse effect of acidic ones - they open the cuticle. Maybe a rinse with baking soda before hennaing would give a longer lasting color, when the dye molecule is able to penetrate the shaft somewhat.

Now, I don't know how big the lawsonia molecule is and if it can penetrate the shaft, but if, the color could be more permanent after a nice acidic rinse to seal the cuticle again.


If anybody has tried this or is willing to do this, please share your experiences, I'm very interested in this. My next henna is only in about 3 weeks, so I've still a bit of time to figure things out.

[Melisande]

I mix my herbald dye mixture (incl. henna) with rooibos tea, honey and yoghurt and nothing ever fades. I don't wait for dye release either, it seems this notion is unknown in Germany ;-) (Is there a German word for it at all?)

[nienna42]

I going to try chamomile tea next henna. I saw the strand test pics from H4H and that convinced me to go for it.
Natalia (and Kirin) - when I say that the henna fades, it doesn't fade completely, it's just that the red becomes less pronounced after some time. For me faded henna is when I had dark red color and somehow it got back to auburn/brown-with-orange. The initial color change would probably be permanent, and PITA to remove.

As far as I know, this is just what henna does. It's not fading, it's oxidizing, and I don't know of anything you can do about it. Henna turns brown-with-orange as it's exposed to oxygen. You can see it more easily on skin, where if you take the paste off your henna tattoo a little too soon, you'll start out with a faint pinkish-orange design that turns to darker brown after a few hours. (At least that's been my experience with mehendi tattoos.)

If you want a henna color that's more red and less orange, I recommend leaving the lemon juice out. The thing is, the more dye you have in your mud, the cooler/redder your henna will look. This is why repeated applications of henna can make henna look more burgundy--the dye accumulates. Lemon juice might help prevent fading (though not in my experience) but it will definitely inhibit dye release, and it won't prevent oxidation. And you won't get as cool a color to begin with, because there will be less dye in your mud.

[Gothic Lolita]

I mix my herbald dye mixture (incl. henna) with rooibos tea, honey and yoghurt and nothing ever fades. I don't wait for dye release either, it seems this notion is unknown in Germany ;-) (Is there a German word for it at all?)


Now that I think of it, I've never read in a German forum that somebody waites for dye release. I can't think of a word for it either, maybe "Farbfreisetzung" would be most accurate....

The rooibos tea sounds nice, I might try that. Does it make the color any bit darker?

[Heidi_234]

As far as I know, this is just what henna does. It's not fading, it's oxidizing, and I don't know of anything you can do about it. Henna turns brown-with-orange as it's exposed to oxygen. You can see it more easily on skin, where if you take the paste off your henna tattoo a little too soon, you'll start out with a faint pinkish-orange design that turns to darker brown after a few hours. (At least that's been my experience with mehendi tattoos.)

If you want a henna color that's more red and less orange, I recommend leaving the lemon juice out. The thing is, the more dye you have in your mud, the cooler/redder your henna will look. This is why repeated applications of henna can make henna look more burgundy--the dye accumulates. Lemon juice might help prevent fading (though not in my experience) but it will definitely inhibit dye release, and it won't prevent oxidation. And you won't get as cool a color to begin with, because there will be less dye in your mud.
I guess I was clear enough. The henna already oxidized from bright orange to deep red, and it was red for two weeks or so, and then faded.
I can try to show it - this is what it was, after oxidation, before fading:
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/picture.php?albumid=2075&pictureid=38147
Deep red sort of, right?
Then a month after the application it faded back (approx) to this:
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/picture.php?albumid=2075&pictureid=30959
I don't have better pictures, but it was much less red, and much more regular boring brunette color.

I'm not sure about the dye part. Acidic liquid does slows down the dye release time, but I do wait for dye release, and I do keep it for few hours on my head, during which it releases more dye. I did add lemon juice in my third application, I got the deep red back, so I suppose I got enough dye after all. The question is will it fade too, or does the lemon juice really helps. :shrug:

[ktani]

I guess I was clear enough. The henna already oxidized from bright orange to deep red, and it was red for two weeks or so, and then faded.
I can try to show it - this is what it was, after oxidation, before fading:
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/picture.php?albumid=2075&pictureid=38147
Deep red sort of, right?
Then a month after the application it faded back (approx) to this:
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/picture.php?albumid=2075&pictureid=30959
I don't have better pictures, but it was much less red, and much more regular boring brunette color.

I'm not sure about the dye part. Acidic liquid does slows down the dye release time, but I do wait for dye release, and I do keep it for few hours on my head, during which it releases more dye. I did add lemon juice in my third application, I got the deep red back, so I suppose I got enough dye after all. The question is will it fade too, or does the lemon juice really helps. :shrug:

From what I have read, it depends on the water one uses as to whether lemon juice helps with dye uptake vs plain tap water. Lemon juice has been reported to make the henna more drying to the hair. Chamomile tea has been reported to work better with henna, is still acidic (much less so than lemon juice) and helps with conditioning (no dryness).

[caribou55313]

As far as I know, this is just what henna does. It's not fading, it's oxidizing, and I don't know of anything you can do about it. Henna turns brown-with-orange as it's exposed to oxygen. You can see it more easily on skin, where if you take the paste off your henna tattoo a little too soon, you'll start out with a faint pinkish-orange design that turns to darker brown after a few hours. (At least that's been my experience with mehendi tattoos.)

If you want a henna color that's more red and less orange, I recommend leaving the lemon juice out. The thing is, the more dye you have in your mud, the cooler/redder your henna will look. This is why repeated applications of henna can make henna look more burgundy--the dye accumulates. Lemon juice might help prevent fading (though not in my experience) but it will definitely inhibit dye release, and it won't prevent oxidation. And you won't get as cool a color to begin with, because there will be less dye in your mud.

My experience validates this - the brightness of fresh henna color fades as henna oxidizes (and particularly with lemon juice mixes, that continues to happen gradually over some weeks), but I would differentiate such normal and expected darkening from fading (as in loss of dye) that occurs routinely with chemical haircolor, and can occur with boiling water mixes (I've had it happen on my hair in the past, turning my rich orange/red to a dull lighter orange on blonde hair, though I haven't seen it in my recent goat hair tests).

Heidi, the colors I see in your month-after pics look like what I would expect from henna on your hair color (which is very beautiful, by the way!): a deep red highlight on dark brunette hair in your long twist pictures. It's darker (which is normal) but I still see the visual effect of henna there.

On goat hair anyway, a cold chamomile tea mix used for 3.5 hours after only 1 hour of dye release time yielded deep red from the get-go, and kept that luscious color over the weeks. For anyone wanting a cool, rich red I'd recommend experimenting with that method.

[Heidi_234]

My experience validates this - the brightness of fresh henna color fades as henna oxidizes (and particularly with lemon juice mixes, that continues to happen gradually over some weeks), but I would differentiate such normal and expected darkening from fading (as in loss of dye) that occurs routinely with chemical haircolor, and can occur with boiling water mixes (I've had it happen on my hair in the past, turning my rich orange/red to a dull lighter orange on blonde hair, though I haven't seen it in my recent goat hair tests).

Heidi, the colors I see in your month-after pics look like what I would expect from henna on your hair color (which is very beautiful, by the way!): a deep red highlight on dark brunette hair in your long twist pictures. It's darker (which is normal) but I still see the visual effect of henna there.

On goat hair anyway, a cold chamomile tea mix used for 3.5 hours after only 1 hour of dye release time yielded deep red from the get-go, and kept that luscious color over the weeks. For anyone wanting a cool, rich red I'd recommend experimenting with that method.
The pictures are not that color accurate - but it the fading did look like the red that built up faded away, leaving it more orange as it was before the application. After this thread and reading other posts on H4H I've decided to mix my henna with chamomile tea and little bit of lemon, because the bottled water I use is 7.5-7.8 pH.

Ktani - I used lemon juice in my henna mix before, and it wasn't more drying on my hair more than usual. I suppose that if you don't mix too much lemon juice, it should be just fine.

[ktani]

The pictures are not that color accurate - but it the fading did look like the red that built up faded away, leaving it more orange as it was before the application. After this thread and reading other posts on H4H I've decided to mix my henna with chamomile tea and little bit of lemon, because the bottled water I use is 7.5-7.8 pH.

Ktani - I used lemon juice in my henna mix before, and it wasn't more drying on my hair more than usual. I suppose that if you don't mix too much lemon juice, it should be just fine.

That is good to know. Thank you.

[Henna Sooq]

You know there are SO MANY factors :) so many things that can contribute to this. Not sure if we'll ever pint point it down, but it's great to have a discussion like this.

First: Which henna we are using matters
Second: What recipe we are using matters too. Like are we talking glosses or pure henna applications. A gloss is always less color then a full strength henna.
Third: What are we washing our hair with? Do we wash more often then other people do? What products are we using? How hot do we like our water, does that change anything? What is our own water like?
Fourth: Does our own hair absorb differently then other people? Do we have grey or not? etc... :)

For me personally right now I am using yemeni henna. It's a tiny bit of a pain to wash out, as I feel the little fibers and of course it runs orange when I am washing for a bit. I'm just a little picky. I would prefer smooth washes like Jamila and indian henna. The color is crazy red at first, and yes shocking, as someone else just mentionned. But it tames down. Does it fade a bit, perhaps yes I could say that a bit. I only do my hair every like 4-6 weeks and I find it needs it by that time and plus if someone has DARK hair it's hard to see the red as the new growth is coming in and it all blends together eventually.

My base has also been water for like almost ever. I added a splash of lemon juice, and I add sugar personally. But that's about it. I'm plain. I know boring LOL!! :) BUT I def like the chamomile tea idea.
Just thinking of that makes me feel relaxed to sit back and get that done to me. Wish someone could do my hair one time!!

[Shermie Girl]

Henna is an interesting animal. My personal experience with the stuff was that I could use plain tap water (I live in a hard water region, maybe that made a difference??) or mix in a little acid and got the same result; long lasting, vibrant, intense stain that was bullet proof. (Much to my chagrin when I tried to remove it. :p) I never left my henna to dye release for very long... An hour or two on my kitchen counter did the trick. I left my henna in for long periods of time; a minimum of five hours. Freezing my paste gave me even more intense stain. I used VO5 conditioner to help with rinsing out. I never used an acid rinse of any kind either before or after I stopped using acid in my mix. My hair doesn't like acid rinses of any kind and will go ballistic if I even show it a bottle of vinegar. :lol:

I would routinely oil pre and post wash with no fading. Deep, long oilings never budged my colour. Nor did shea butter, SMT treatments or other deep treatments. I could use any shampoo or conditioner, mild to clarifying; any conditioner, cone or cone free without any impact on my colour.

The henna I used the most often was Rajastani from H4H. I used Jamila a few times, but preferred the Rajastani. :)

I think that henna is like any other product, each person needs to play with it, experiment, see what works then do that to get the best results. :D

[Heidi_234]

You know there are SO MANY factors :) so many things that can contribute to this. Not sure if we'll ever pint point it down, but it's great to have a discussion like this.

First: Which henna we are using matters
Second: What recipe we are using matters too. Like are we talking glosses or pure henna applications. A gloss is always less color then a full strength henna.
Third: What are we washing our hair with? Do we wash more often then other people do? What products are we using? How hot do we like our water, does that change anything? What is our own water like?
Fourth: Does our own hair absorb differently then other people? Do we have grey or not? etc...

For me personally right now I am using yemeni henna. It's a tiny bit of a pain to wash out, as I feel the little fibers and of course it runs orange when I am washing for a bit. I'm just a little picky. I would prefer smooth washes like Jamila and indian henna. The color is crazy red at first, and yes shocking, as someone else just mentionned. But it tames down. Does it fade a bit, perhaps yes I could say that a bit. I only do my hair every like 4-6 weeks and I find it needs it by that time and plus if someone has DARK hair it's hard to see the red as the new growth is coming in and it all blends together eventually.

My base has also been water for like almost ever. I added a splash of lemon juice, and I add sugar personally. But that's about it. I'm plain. I know boring LOL!! :) BUT I def like the chamomile tea idea.
Just thinking of that makes me feel relaxed to sit back and get that done to me. Wish someone could do my hair one time!!

Every factor that you listed was in favor of the henna for me, and yet it faded (again, by faded I mean that the deep red color that I managed to build up faded back to the lighter orange cast). A month almost passed since my third application (the one where I did use a bit of lemon juice), and the color seems to hold much better. I'll see when the month's over.
You know I just thought of something! Lemon juice (or better say the vitamin C in it) is used as 'water softener'. In the archives there's the "Miracle Water (http://archive.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=51184)" recipe, which uses vitamin C and citric acid diluted in large amount of water, in order to chelate the minerals that make it hard. Maybe some mineral react with the henna and don't let it bond as well?
Now I wonder if using distilled water would solve the fading. :ponder: I have to figure out a way to boil it lol, to steep the chamomile, as my kettle is full of mineral residue. :ponder:
That's very interesting I'd say.


Henna is an interesting animal. My personal experience with the stuff was that I could use plain tap water (I live in a hard water region, maybe that made a difference??) or mix in a little acid and got the same result; long lasting, vibrant, intense stain that was bullet proof. (Much to my chagrin when I tried to remove it. :p) I never left my henna to dye release for very long... An hour or two on my kitchen counter did the trick. I left my henna in for long periods of time; a minimum of five hours. Freezing my paste gave me even more intense stain. I used VO5 conditioner to help with rinsing out. I never used an acid rinse of any kind either before or after I stopped using acid in my mix. My hair doesn't like acid rinses of any kind and will go ballistic if I even show it a bottle of vinegar. :lol:

I would routinely oil pre and post wash with no fading. Deep, long oilings never budged my colour. Nor did shea butter, SMT treatments or other deep treatments. I could use any shampoo or conditioner, mild to clarifying; any conditioner, cone or cone free without any impact on my colour.

The henna I used the most often was Rajastani from H4H. I used Jamila a few times, but preferred the Rajastani. :)

I think that henna is like any other product, each person needs to play with it, experiment, see what works then do that to get the best results. :D


By the law of dear/darn Murphy, henna will be the most permanent for those who would wish to remove it later. :lol: But I have to say that apart from that fading thing, henna proved to be very forgiving and resistant. So yeah, not for those who prone to change their mind. :)

[Henna Sooq]

Shermie Girl, well said :)

[ilovelonghair]

BAQ plus camomile tea plus a tablespoonful of lemon juice, left overnight before applying = a really dark stain that never fades, like, ever!


Still fades for me :D My hair is special haha

[getoffmyskittle]

Henna fades on me. I don't know whether it has to do with water or lemon juice or what, but it surely fades. When I do it, at first I get a sort of red wine effect. Over time, it becomes copper.

[BlackfootHair]

When I used to henna I used filtered water only. Room temperature. Never had fading at all.