What Do I Do?! Fine, Wavy/Wurly Haircare

[Flynn]

Hi again, everyone.

I needs the advices, please.

I have just recently realised that my hair is wavy/wurly enough that it is noticeable, and really want to emphasise these waves/loose wurls. The solution seems obvious, right? Go curlygirl!

Maybe not. I also have fine, very tangle-prone hair. Trying a general approach of "comb while sopping wet, then don't touch it when it's dry", (and trying to add lots of moisture in the form of heavy oiling overnight before washing, CWC, and occasionally oiling after washing) has been leaving me with what looks and feels to me like a rats' nest of nightmarish tangles. I also think (though I'm not sure about it) I've been getting more breakage because of combing while wet -- my approach until now has always been leave it alone until it's dry to avoid stretching and damaging the hair. I don't hear snapping while I comb, but I'm seeing more splits and more shorties than a few weeks ago. This might be normal -- my hair does tend to reach a critical mass of splits and then I start really noticing them, but I think it's still a little too soon after my last trim for that...

This is how I look unbrushed, air dried (1) which looks nice, but up close it's all made up of these (2), which are in turn constructed largely of knots and tangles.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b106/maccallister/unbrushed.jpg http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b106/maccallister/Strand2.jpg

This is how I look brushed. (3) Not as nice. Looks kind of dull and dead. Very soft, very free of tangles, but dull.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b106/maccallister/brushed.jpg

(Yes I know I've used the pictures before, in the hairtyping thread, I'm sorry.)

So! What do you think I should do? Any other fine wavy/wurlies out there -- what do you do?

ETA I'm kind of clinging to my brush a bit, as I'm concerned that the combing (particularly when wet) is doing damage. I have a very soft, wide-spaced brush, as shown in the image below. (The coin is pretty well exactly an inch across.) The comb is one of two I've been using, theo other being an Afro comb.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b106/maccallister/Utensils.png

[Roseate]

I am the opposite of fine, so I can't speak from personal experience. You have photos of unbrushed/brushed... what about just combed? Is detangling dry with a widetooth comb an option? Less frizz than a brush, possibly less damage than wet combing.

[Flynn]

I am the opposite of fine, so I can't speak from personal experience. You have photos of unbrushed/brushed... what about just combed? Is detangling dry with a widetooth comb an option? Less frizz than a brush, possibly less damage than wet combing.

I don't have pictures (only very intermittent access to a camera), but it seems very similar to me. Maybe a little better... not sure.

I should have mentioned in the first post, I have now switched to combing a lot of the time, using an "Afro comb".

[Kina]

Hi, sounds and looks like you have very similar hair texture to mine, albeit you seem to have more of it!

I comb my hair only when wet AND with conditioner in. I am prone to tangles (and my hair goes into attack mode assaulting strange children and other innocent flora and fauna)

You didn't mention how often you wash, I was with shampoo once a week and CO the rest of the time.

Keeping it up has been helping with the tangling and coconut oil at night has been doing really nice things for thickness and strength.

Hope this helps in any way.

[darkwaves]

My hair knots like crazy, too, when I let it dry without handling.

But, if I want it loose and curly, that's the price I pay!

I used to detangle only when wet/conditioned, but I don't wash my hair as often now (right now, just wet once a week), and if I leave it, the tangles tighten into big, impenetrable knots. Now that! causes damage!

My compromise is to only wear it curly once per wash cycle. After that, I gently detangle, and up it goes. (But brushing? Hmm... only a very gentle BBB after comb and finger detangling, to help get rid of all the shed hairs. Never to detangle.)

Your hair looks very full and shiny!

[Flynn]

Hi, sounds and looks like you have very similar hair texture to mine, albeit you seem to have more of it!

I comb my hair only when wet AND with conditioner in. I am prone to tangles (and my hair goes into attack mode assaulting strange children and other innocent flora and fauna)

You didn't mention how often you wash, I was with shampoo once a week and CO the rest of the time.

Keeping it up has been helping with the tangling and coconut oil at night has been doing really nice things for thickness and strength.

Hope this helps in any way.

Sorry, at the moment I'm CWC'ing or just "traditional" washing with a rather mild shampoo and conditioner every two to three days (my hair seems to like the CWC, my new-ish helix piercings don't, so I have to give them a break from it sometimes!)

I keep it braided most of the time (I'm a science student working in a lab most days, so I can't wear it out for safety reasons), but it's nice to have hair that looks nice worn out ^__^

If you comb only when wet and conditioned, do you, what, drip-dry your hair all the way? No towelling? Mine makes tangles if I so much as let it see a towel. *Laughs*

As far as the coconut oil goes, does it also help much with slip and tangle-resistance, or not to any degree that you'd really notice it...?

*Laughs* It's a bit like octopus-hair sometimes, isn't it? always extending a tentril to stick to something... (I'm so glad my boyfriend wears his hair long, too... at least he sort of understands, rather then gets annoyed, when bits of hair go wandering...)

[Flynn]

My hair knots like crazy, too, when I let it dry without handling.

But, if I want it loose and curly, that's the price I pay!

I used to detangle only when wet/conditioned, but I don't wash my hair as often now (right now, just wet once a week), and if I leave it, the tangles tighten into big, impenetrable knots. Now that! causes damage!

My compromise is to only wear it curly once per wash cycle. After that, I gently detangle, and up it goes. (But brushing? Hmm... only a very gentle BBB after comb and finger detangling, to help get rid of all the shed hairs. Never to detangle.)


When I brush, I use a very, very soft brush. I think the "bristles" are teflon...? They're a very soft black plastic, whatever they are. My initial motivation for this was that anything else tended to get stuck! XD Big knots obviously get detangled by hand, and I'm pretty satisfied that I'm not doing damage with my current brush.

Thing is, though, with true curls, you definitely don't notice if it's a bit tangly. I'd wear mine loose after washing like in pic (1), except that I'm worried that people can actually see how wild and messy it really is! *Laughs*

I also should have mentioned in my first post that I rarely wear it loose. Most of the time, it's braided.



Your hair looks very full and shiny!

Thanks very much ^___^

[Teacherbear]

My hair is very fine and tangles VERY easily.

I CWCC most of the time. Sometimes I CO. I brush (with a Denman) while my hair is wet. Most of the time I braid it, bun it, or put it into a pony tail as it dries. If it is a special occasion, I scrunch and flip my hair as it dries to enhance my wave/curl pattern. When my hair was shorter I use to do a messy-scrunchy bun at night and take my hair down in the morning. I didn't do anything to it in the morning after taking it down - it was still messy. I got TONS of compliments on my hair.

I hope that helps.

[OhioLisa]

The best advice I can give is to ditch the brush. Your hair is fine (more fragile) and you have waves, which means brushing will only add frizz. Keeping your length moisturized will help as well, of course, whether with oils or a leave-in of some sort.

What products are you using? The presence / absence of both sulfates and / or cones might be contributing to your tangle issues.

I comb once right after washing with a wide tooth comb, then let it air dry.

[Flynn]

My hair is very fine and tangles VERY easily.

I CWCC most of the time. Sometimes I CO. I brush (with a Denman) while my hair is wet. Most of the time I braid it, bun it, or put it into a pony tail as it dries. If it is a special occasion, I scrunch and flip my hair as it dries to enhance my wave/curl pattern. When my hair was shorter I use to do a messy-scrunchy bun at night and take my hair down in the morning. I didn't do anything to it in the morning after taking it down - it was still messy. I got TONS of compliments on my hair.

I hope that helps.

That's interesting... I haven't actually gone out with my hair like that, so I don't know what it looks like to others when seen in person. I usually just freak out about the tangles and the messiness, and brush it and/or put it up. It might look worse to me than to others... I'll test it out.

I don't think I could sleep on a bun... O.o

Thanks very much! ^__^

[Flynn]

The best advice I can give is to ditch the brush. Your hair is fine (more fragile) and you have waves, which means brushing will only add frizz. Keeping your length moisturized will help as well, of course, whether with oils or a leave-in of some sort.

What products are you using? The presence / absence of both sulfates and / or cones might be contributing to your tangle issues.

I comb once right after washing with a wide tooth comb, then let it air dry.

It's not frizz in the sense I used to have it... (one girl persistently called me fluff-ball at school. I called her Edgar, though, so it was okay XD ... long story.) The "wings" you see in the brushed pic are where my hair has attached itself to my jumper.

I'm trying to move away from brushing... I got myself and afro comb, which I'm trying to use most of the time, but I'm not sure it's helping so much.... but I'm sticking with it. The brush, I am very confident, is not a significant cause of damage. It is very soft. As you can see in the picture, though, it breaks up the waves/wurlies... like you'd expect, I guess.

I use a paraben-, lanolin- and perfume-free shampoo and conditioner with dimethicone and SLS (in the 'poo only, of course.) They are very mild. Unfortunately, I cannot change them, because of skin issues. (In a run of hundreds of different brands of "sensitive skin" conditioners and shampoos, these products -- DermaVeen's colloidal oatmeal ones -- are the only ones I haven't had issues with, but which have stil helped my hair.) I very rarely use a commercial detangling leave-in, because of the perfume issues. I'm still learning the ins and outs of using an oil as a leave-in... (Still can't get the amount quite right... it keeps drying thready, rather than clumpy, even though it doesn't feel oily.)

[Rae~]

I have quite fine hair as well, although not as thick as yours. I also use an "Afro" comb almost exclusively, and find it works fabulously for me. Have you tried damp-bunning? I find it works particularly well if I wash in the morning, rather than at night, though, so if you only ever wash your hair at night, it might not be as effective.

I comb the conditioner through while in the shower, then comb again once I get out (mainly because I need to set my part properly, to tame a hideously uncooperative cowlick). I blot the length several times, particularly the ends, and leave it down to airdry for as long as possible so that it is not too wet when I put it up. I may also add a drop or two of jojoba oil to the bottom half of the length. Then I make a cinnabun, preferably a fairly loose one.

During the day, I may take it down once, or even sometimes twice, and run the Afro comb through it briefly (but carefully, as it is still damp and fragile). This is mainly to smooth down some of the flyaways I get around my head, but also helps air out the length briefly, to aid drying.

Then, when I take it down at the end of the day, I *sometimes* get lovely, smooth bun waves. I say sometimes, because it is still hit-and-miss for me. Some days (quite often, I suppose), it is still damp. But sometimes, depending on factors such as how damp it was to start with (ie how early I was able to get out of bed to shower, and how long I was able to airdry!), or the temperature and relative humidity, it has managed to nearly dry and the results are quite good.

If washing at night, I do a similar routine but make a scrunchie bun on the top of my head.... which again is hit-and-miss, but when it works, looks lovely.

Hope you find something that works for you! :flower:

[Flynn]

I have quite fine hair as well, although not as thick as yours. I also use an "Afro" comb almost exclusively, and find it works fabulously for me. Have you tried damp-bunning? I find it works particularly well if I wash in the morning, rather than at night, though, so if you only ever wash your hair at night, it might not be as effective.

I comb the conditioner through while in the shower, then comb again once I get out (mainly because I need to set my part properly, to tame a hideously uncooperative cowlick). I blot the length several times, particularly the ends, and leave it down to airdry for as long as possible so that it is not too wet when I put it up. I may also add a drop or two of jojoba oil to the bottom half of the length. Then I make a cinnabun, preferably a fairly loose one.

During the day, I may take it down once, or even sometimes twice, and run the Afro comb through it briefly (but carefully, as it is still damp and fragile). This is mainly to smooth down some of the flyaways I get around my head, but also helps air out the length briefly, to aid drying.

Then, when I take it down at the end of the day, I *sometimes* get lovely, smooth bun waves. I say sometimes, because it is still hit-and-miss for me. Some days (quite often, I suppose), it is still damp. But sometimes, depending on factors such as how damp it was to start with (ie how early I was able to get out of bed to shower, and how long I was able to airdry!), or the temperature and relative humidity, it has managed to nearly dry and the results are quite good.

If washing at night, I do a similar routine but make a scrunchie bun on the top of my head.... which again is hit-and-miss, but when it works, looks lovely.

Hope you find something that works for you! :flower:

I often braid damp, as my hair seems to be fond of staying wet for as long as possible. I don't however, like braid waves, so I won't wear it out again until the next wash. Bunning it, though, might just work. It should still have that "wurl" to it (which is what I like about it), and it won't be doing its best to turn into felt. XD

Thanks very much for the suggestion. ^__^

[Rae~]

You're more than welcome, FLynn. I dislike braid waves on myself, too. Hopefully bunning might give you a better result. Good luck! :flower:

[Flynn]

*Laughs* Yeah, should have clarified that: I don't like braid waves in my hair. They look lovely on other people! (They probably look fine on me, too, I just don't like wearing them, y'know?)

[Rae~]

Heh, I knew exactly what you meant! It's funny how I can see something (be it a style, or a certain hairtype) on someone else, and love it, but just *really* not like it on myself. Weird! :lol:

[GlassEyes]

I'm not a wavy, and I'm not sure if I have FINE hair anyway (as you already know), but I can tell you the effects of brushing on whatever my hair is makes it snap. Getting rid of the brush when you know you have fine hair is probably the best way to go.

If it helps, I can comb when it's wet with CONDITIONER IN for slip, and I rarely, if ever, see any breakage from it. With straight water, I can expect some, but not much. If you CWC and then comb on the last wash, it'll help some.

AS for bringing out the waves/wurls, some aloe gel could help. It doesn't do anything for me (but then again, I have hardcore frizz), but a lot of wavy-haired people seem to have good results with it. One thing you might consider is Gladtobemom's frizz-buster gel, which is a mixture of jojoba and aloe gel, I believe. In fact, you may want to take a look at one of her threads; it lists out all that she does to care for her wavy hair, and it may be helpful because she has several routines that work.

Link: http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=21120&highlight=gladtobemom

Also, there WAS a thread about a type of salt spray that could increase waviness, but I'm fairy certain it'd be drying, although it would work. Most also notice that their waviness increases when they decrease silicone use as well (even curly-haired LHC'ers notice some of this too), but as you said, it's not possible to cease use of them because of skin issues.

[FallenAngel]

I brush before I CO, then nothing but finger combing while my hair is wet. I don't have very long hair, but brushing/combing while wet just don't work for me.

[Flynn]

I'm not a wavy, and I'm not sure if I have FINE hair anyway (as you already know), but I can tell you the effects of brushing on whatever my hair is makes it snap. Getting rid of the brush when you know you have fine hair is probably the best way to go.

Thing is, it's a really soft brush, and I think the comb (even though I'm combing from the ends, working incrementally upward) is actually doing more damage.


If it helps, I can comb when it's wet with CONDITIONER IN for slip, and I rarely, if ever, see any breakage from it. With straight water, I can expect some, but not much. If you CWC and then comb on the last wash, it'll help some.

Yup, have been, but then I rinse and get out of the shower, and... tangles again T^T


AS for bringing out the waves/wurls, some aloe gel could help. It doesn't do anything for me (but then again, I have hardcore frizz), but a lot of wavy-haired people seem to have good results with it. One thing you might consider is Gladtobemom's frizz-buster gel, which is a mixture of jojoba and aloe gel, I believe. In fact, you may want to take a look at one of her threads; it lists out all that she does to care for her wavy hair, and it may be helpful because she has several routines that work.

Link: http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=21120&highlight=gladtobemom[quote]

Thanks! When you say "aloe gel" do you just mean aloe vera gel/jelly, just like you apply to burns? Or is it an actual hair-gel-like preparation of it?

[QUOTE=GlassEyes;581101]Also, there WAS a thread about a type of salt spray that could increase waviness, but I'm fairy certain it'd be drying, although it would work. Most also notice that their waviness increases when they decrease silicone use as well (even curly-haired LHC'ers notice some of this too), but as you said, it's not possible to cease use of them because of skin issues.

Hahaha, I think my hair has had enough sun and salt spray (in the other sense... like, off the ocean) for a lifetime. I'm not sure it'd like me adding more!

Yeah, I've heard to decrease silicone... several of my "rejects" when I was trying to find something that wouldn't upset my scalp were SLS/SLES and/or silicone free. The SLS/SLES free ones didn't clean, so I just got oily, lumpy flakies, and the 'cone free ones invariably left my hair looking lank and sad. I don't think (though I'm not sure) that that is because I didn't allow a long enough transition period between types, because I always use up the bottle (cheap person I am) unless I actually reacted to it... Which seems really weird. My hair just felt like breaking the "rules"...? O.o




I brush before I CO, then nothing but finger combing while my hair is wet. I don't have very long hair, but brushing/combing while wet just don't work for me.

Yeah, I don't think it's doing me much good either, really. But then I have to brush again when dry, because it's a tangle-nest, so then I've killed my waves... hmp.

[Kina]

Sorry, at the moment I'm CWC'ing or just "traditional" washing with a rather mild shampoo and conditioner every two to three days (my hair seems to like the CWC, my new-ish helix piercings don't, so I have to give them a break from it sometimes!)

I keep it braided most of the time (I'm a science student working in a lab most days, so I can't wear it out for safety reasons), but it's nice to have hair that looks nice worn out ^__^

If you comb only when wet and conditioned, do you, what, drip-dry your hair all the way? No towelling? Mine makes tangles if I so much as let it see a towel. *Laughs*

As far as the coconut oil goes, does it also help much with slip and tangle-resistance, or not to any degree that you'd really notice it...?

*Laughs* It's a bit like octopus-hair sometimes, isn't it? always extending a tentril to stick to something... (I'm so glad my boyfriend wears his hair long, too... at least he sort of understands, rather then gets annoyed, when bits of hair go wandering...)

When I step out of the shower, I wrap my hair for about 10 minutes in a towel, add some light gel to the routs, coconut oil to the ends, fluff and let it drip dry. There is a pic in my album or my hair like this.

I've accepted that I'm going to tangle and that I'll need to detangle the way that I do. I can't figure out any other way to keep my hair natural and looking good.

It seems to be working, I haven't trimmed in a year and did an S&D the other night, couldn't find any split ends.

[GlassEyes]

Yes, I mean that aloe.

Just don't get anything with lidocaine or any kind of painkillers in it. Go for clear. Wal-Mart sells FOTE gel, which is what I used to use (Fruit of the Earth). Anything clear and not blue/green should be good, but if it has more ingredients than preservatives and doesn't say 100% Aloe Vera Gel, don't use it.

[Flynn]

When I step out of the shower, I wrap my hair for about 10 minutes in a towel, add some light gel to the routs, coconut oil to the ends, fluff and let it drip dry. There is a pic in my album or my hair like this.

I've accepted that I'm going to tangle and that I'll need to detangle the way that I do. I can't figure out any other way to keep my hair natural and looking good.

It seems to be working, I haven't trimmed in a year and did an S&D the other night, couldn't find any split ends.

That's really good! Congrats on no splits ^__^

That's probably wise... When I dry (un-drip? It's not very dry...) my hair with a towel, even if I just blot, the way it clings to the towel probably contributes a lot to tangles. Wrapping it and keeping it static sounds really sensible.

I haven't yet had much luck yet with oils; tried walnut this morning, because it "feels" lighter than EVOO or rice bran (the latter being the one I've mostly been using.) I've been everywhere looking for coconut oil, and haven't had any luck yet. There's a healthfood store I found who say they usually have it, and one Asian grocer, but both said they haven't had any for a few months. Weird, hey?



Yes, I mean that aloe.

Just don't get anything with lidocaine or any kind of painkillers in it. Go for clear. Wal-Mart sells FOTE gel, which is what I used to use (Fruit of the Earth). Anything clear and not blue/green should be good, but if it has more ingredients than preservatives and doesn't say 100% Aloe Vera Gel, don't use it.

We grow our own, so I don't think I need to worry about all that! XD Thanks!

[Kina]

I got my first batch of coconut oil here on the swap pages, but bought a 5 gallon (I do nothing if not to excess ;-) bucket on ebay. 100% virgin coconut oil, food grade quality.

[SylphideNoir]

Alright here are my tips:
1. Use a chamois instead of a terri cloth towel.
2. Check your comb for seams and sand them down or invest in a nice hand sawn/seamless one.
3. Stop brushing. Yes, completely.
4. Read the article on damaged hair (by Nightshade I believe).
5. Find a SLS/SLES free shampoo that you like.
6. Always wear your hair up when wearing a jumper or catchy material.
7. Search and Destroy trims for white dots and splts.
8. Silk pillowcases.
9. Metal free hair bands for your braids.
10. Leave-ins used to combat frizz and add moisture can actually cause buildup and stickiness exacerbating tangle issues.

There was a really great article on caring for fine hair here but I can't find it now. Anybody with a link please post it because it's really helpful.

[Flynn]

Alright here are my tips:
1. Use a chamois instead of a terri cloth towel.
2. Check your comb for seams and sand them down or invest in a nice hand sawn/seamless one.
3. Stop brushing. Yes, completely.
4. Read the article on damaged hair (by Nightshade I believe).
5. Find a SLS/SLES free shampoo that you like.
6. Always wear your hair up when wearing a jumper or catchy material.
7. Search and Destroy trims for white dots and splts.
8. Silk pillowcases.
9. Metal free hair bands for your braids.
10. Leave-ins used to combat frizz and add moisture can actually cause buildup and stickiness exacerbating tangle issues.

There was a really great article on caring for fine hair here but I can't find it now. Anybody with a link please post it because it's really helpful.

1. Good idea. They're all smooth-like.
2. Have been... also have a seamfree cast plastic one.
3. If I'm wearing it out, I'm trying to.
4. I'll look for it, but don't consider that to be a major issue. I don't have much in the way of damage, though either handling it when wet, combing, or both has caused some.
5. Can't.
6. Usually do, after a sense; it's in a braid practically all the time. It's too heavy to wear "properly" up for very long, or very often -- it gives me headaches (migraine sufferer, cut all my hair off at one stage, partly in the hope it would help, which it did.)
7. Haven't needed to prior to switching to wet handling and combing. I'm a frequent trimmer, though, so I'm not too stressed about it. It seems like a huge time investment!
8. Tried it once, with polyester satin. Waaay crazy static. Can't really afford or justify actual silk pillowcases, especially as I'm a four-day-er. (i.e. no pillowcase is used without washing for more than four days.)
9. Absolutely! I hate the damn things, they're always breaking, but the metal slices my hair. I'd rather annoying breaking hairties to sliced hair!
10. Yup, rarely use commercial ones. Experimenting with oils. Tried walnut today; I'm really liking it. It doesn't seem to weigh my hair down like the rice bran oil seemed to...

Thanks!

[Flynn]

I got my first batch of coconut oil here on the swap pages, but bought a 5 gallon (I do nothing if not to excess ;-) bucket on ebay. 100% virgin coconut oil, food grade quality.

Yeah, but no credit card and I'm scared of PayPal.

Hopefully one of the stores who said they usually have it will get it back in soon...

I'm trying walnut oil at the moment (i.e. as of this morning). I'm really liking it! It's nice and light, and it has a really subtle, really delicious smell!

[catfish]

OMG we are hair twins:cheese: My hair from the back looks just like that if I do nothing to it, mine is a wee bit darker though;)

I feel your pain sister:p having wavy, thick, fine hair can be challenging, but the rewards are worth the struggle. I am proud to have very soft and light hair, and while it seems to snarl and tangle if so much as one soul sneezes, I find great joy in being able to run about with a cloud of soft hair around me.

I see you like your brush, I'm going to go against the grain and suggest you keep using your brush. I brush my hair every day, and my hair is definitely better for it. Does it cause some mechanical damage, a little perhaps, but the truth is that without brushing my tangly hair would be impossible and no comb in the world could deal with it. I never brush wet hair, only dry hair with a little oil or detangler.;)

As for the dilemma of how to rid yourself of tangles and keep your waves, here's what I do...
Brush dry hair thoroughly to rid of tangles and snarls. Again I use a little oil or detangler for this.
Effectively kill waves.
Sprizt hair with a bit of water/oil or water/detangler or tea until hair is slightly damp.
Let airdry.

My hair will wave up just as nice but tangle free, for about an hour:D

I too have sensitive skin, I wash with a mild and/or organic baby shampoo and condition with catnip and oil. I haven't used commercial conditioner for nearly a year now and my hair has never been better, strangely, conditioner makes my hair ever more tangly, instead of less.

I know that if I scrunched my waves with gel and never brushed my hair that I could have really wavy if not curly hair, however, I also know that I would have knots that would require cutting. I have come to accept that I would rather have less tangled hair than curls:o oh well...sigh...

I truly hope you find a routine that works for you. By the way, your fluffy hair is lovely:D

[LadyEliza]

forgive me if I repeat anything someone else has said, but I don't have time to read all the way through.

I wouldn't oil your hair except before you wash. Oil will be too heavy on your hair and pull out the curls.

There are products that will help your hair curl without damage, usually you put them in your hair wet and scrunch. Come gently when wet with wide tooth comb - but if you are hearing snapping then and can do it when it's almost dry instead then do it then.

Then scrunch it gently with your hands while it's drying.

[Flynn]

OMG we are hair twins:cheese: My hair from the back looks just like that if I do nothing to it, mine is a wee bit darker though;)

I feel your pain sister:p having wavy, thick, fine hair can be challenging, but the rewards are worth the struggle. I am proud to have very soft and light hair, and while it seems to snarl and tangle if so much as one soul sneezes, I find great joy in being able to run about with a cloud of soft hair around me.

I see you like your brush, I'm going to go against the grain and suggest you keep using your brush. I brush my hair every day, and my hair is definitely better for it. Does it cause some mechanical damage, a little perhaps, but the truth is that without brushing my tangly hair would be impossible and no comb in the world could deal with it. I never brush wet hair, only dry hair with a little oil or detangler.;)

As for the dilemma of how to rid yourself of tangles and keep your waves, here's what I do...
Brush dry hair thoroughly to rid of tangles and snarls. Again I use a little oil or detangler for this.
Effectively kill waves.
Sprizt hair with a bit of water/oil or water/detangler or tea until hair is slightly damp.
Let airdry.

My hair will wave up just as nice but tangle free, for about an hour:D

I too have sensitive skin, I wash with a mild and/or organic baby shampoo and condition with catnip and oil. I haven't used commercial conditioner for nearly a year now and my hair has never been better, strangely, conditioner makes my hair ever more tangly, instead of less.

I know that if I scrunched my waves with gel and never brushed my hair that I could have really wavy if not curly hair, however, I also know that I would have knots that would require cutting. I have come to accept that I would rather have less tangled hair than curls:o oh well...sigh...

I truly hope you find a routine that works for you. By the way, your fluffy hair is lovely:D

Fwee! Twins! We even appear to have about the same length! XD

Yeah, I love the feel of my hair, especially since I've started oiling.

I absolutely agree with everyone about brushes in general, but there are exceptions. The tangle teezer, for instance is one. (Obviously.) My brush is a wide-spaced (half an inch between "bristles" in all directions), very soft one -- look, I'll show you. (Pic at end of post.) You probably can't see, but, as a result of an experiment I've been conducting I haven't cleaned out either the brush or that comb (or the Afro comb, which is not shown here) for about the same number of uses. The comb has an awful lot more hair trapped in it. The next step is, I guess, checking how many of those are full-length, to see whether the comb just catches sheds better, or if it is, as I suspect, causing more breakage than the brush did. I'm willing to accept that the brush is a wave-murderer, though, hence my persistence with the combs. (By the way, in the pic, the coin is pretty well exactly an inch across.)

Heck, an hour of tangle-free is long enough to go out to dinner and be sure it's not going to become visibly awful before you leave. XD

As for shampoos and conditioners, I even rejected most of the baby shampoos as too nasty for my scalp! *Laughs* All the "organic" conditioners I tried made my hair more tangly than if I used nothing, as did a few of the chemists' preparation for sensitive skin type ones. On the rare occasion I use a supermarket conditioner (e.g. staying at a friend's place) no matter how much I rinse and rinse and rinse, my hair always feels sticky and clingy to itself... and therefore super-tangles follow. I don't seem to get that so much with my current conditioner, and even when I do get the horror tangles, they are unpickable, eventually, not like before when the hair just locked to itself. I think as far as the conditioner can help, it probably is... *shrugs* There's no mineral oil, and it doesn't seem too heavily 'coney (it has dimethicone and amodimethicone, but they're a way down the list)... and it's a lot easier to have something in a bottle than to make up catnip XD Maybe I'll give it a shot once I've got the oiling side sorted out, though...

I have no idea how much my hair will wave (or even curl) up if I encourage it. I only really realised that it had a nice wave to it around the time I joined the forum... not that long ago! I'd been treating it as though it was straight up until then.

By the way, in your sig, how did you get it to go into rollers? I just can't do it! Rollers, hot rods, rags, whatever... I just can't find anything that'll handle the length!

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b106/maccallister/Utensils.png

[Flynn]

forgive me if I repeat anything someone else has said, but I don't have time to read all the way through.

I wouldn't oil your hair except before you wash. Oil will be too heavy on your hair and pull out the curls.

There are products that will help your hair curl without damage, usually you put them in your hair wet and scrunch. Come gently when wet with wide tooth comb - but if you are hearing snapping then and can do it when it's almost dry instead then do it then.

Then scrunch it gently with your hands while it's drying.

You haven't really repeated, but anyway, repeat advice is good: it confirms it, rather than just being one person saying something >_o

*Laughs* Oh, so that's why I can't get the amount of oil right. XD I've been doing overnights the night before washing, and adding some post-wash if I don't have to leave the house the next day... but no matter how little I put in, it hasn't been quite right. Now you say this, I think I'll ditch the post-wash idea altogether.

I'll keep an eye out for such products... any suggestions as to (good) components/ingredients in them to keep an eye out for?

I'm not hearing much snapping with the wet-combing, but there's the occasional one, and no matter how careful I am, I'm sure I'm stretching out the hair, which (as far as my understanding goes) is extremely bad. Does it really toughen up that much between sopping and damp? I'd kind of assumed it didn't, but I realise now you mention it that I have no grounds for that assumption.

Thanks very much!

[Flynn]

Tried plopping/plunking, as I found described in a thread for curlies last night... hair is still damp this morning, but looking good so far. I've put it up in a really loose messy bun, in the hope it'll dry off by this afternoon (unlikely.) ...

[catfish]

Flynn- To get the curls, I use the large foam rollers with the foam taken off:p I can wrap up all my length but I have to use about 20 rollers for all my hair and I roll very thin strips. The hair in my avatar pic is bun twirls after my hair has been up in buns for hours, and the curls from my signature pic is from curlers left in dry hair for about two hours, the curls last all day:D

I find plopping gives me horrible tangles, hope not so for you;)

[SheWolf]

My hair is fine to medium and wavy, but I have a ton of it, so it looks thick. And it tangles easily, too.
So far, with the cool tricks I've learned at LHC, I came up with a routine that works quite well:

-Sulfate free shampoo every 3-4 days
-CO washing in between
-Leave in on damp hair
-Coconut oil on dry hair

I still have damage from previous mistakes, but in general my hair is way softer and does not tangle nearly as much.

[Flynn]

Flynn- To get the curls, I use the large foam rollers with the foam taken off:p I can wrap up all my length but I have to use about 20 rollers for all my hair and I roll very thin strips. The hair in my avatar pic is bun twirls after my hair has been up in buns for hours, and the curls from my signature pic is from curlers left in dry hair for about two hours, the curls last all day:D

I find plopping gives me horrible tangles, hope not so for you;)

O-kay, maybe I'm trying to get too much hair per roller (well, hot rod, these (http://www.allproducts.com/manufacture97/haircurle/product1.jpg) being what I call hot rods. Not sure why. I think maybe you can heat the metal core or something dumb like that... or they're blow-dry-able.. Don't know.) It's hard, too, because my hair is longer than my arms! *laughs*

I did it into a really soft, stretchy tee-shirt (that weird smooth super-elastaney blend that a lot of sports gear is made of at the moment...) rather than any sort of towel, so I'm hoping for the best. I haven't taken it down yet, so I have no idea whether it's tangly or not... I'll let you know when I do.



My hair is fine to medium and wavy, but I have a ton of it, so it looks thick. And it tangles easily, too.
So far, with the cool tricks I've learned at LHC, I came up with a routine that works quite well:

-Sulfate free shampoo every 3-4 days
-CO washing in between
-Leave in on damp hair
-Coconut oil on dry hair

I still have damage from previous mistakes, but in general my hair is way softer and does not tangle nearly as much.

Ooooh, yeah. I hear you on having a tonne of it. My pony's an easy 4 1/2 " around... hairdressers usually want me to have layers. (I'm good at saying no.)

I think if I wet my hair any more than every 2-3 days, it'd never dry... O.o

Do you use a commercial leave-in? What one do you use? I've never found one I really like, but if I could find one that works, it really should make a big difference to the tangles...

Yup, looks like I really need some coconut oil. Everyone says so >_o

[Flynn]

I find plopping gives me horrible tangles, hope not so for you;)

I did get tangles, but not so badly, and not such that you could see them, like I get with air-drying.

[Carina]

The only advice I have for you is to get a good leave-in conditioner and a wooden comb(the body shop).I also brush my hair with a bbb before I shower to avoid tangles.Good luck!!!Recycled photos----me like;).

[Flynn]

Body Shop here only have brushes... T^T (And rubbish ones, too. Eeejits.) Any leave-in you'd recommend? I've never found one that doesn't just make matters worse.

BBB's don't really do anything for me... I have too much hair, and the bristles are way too short of it. Works for smoothing hair into a ponytail, or what have you, but nothing else. May as well use the flat of my hand.