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Silver Strands
May 3rd, 2009, 12:02 PM
Yesterday I used Dove shampoo and conditioner.
My hair felt pretty nice but I felt it could use a little more moisture.

So today, being inspired by a couple very long haired members' routine, I decided to CO using VO5 Free Me Fressia.
It had "moisturizing" on the label and I wanted to see if it was possible to absorb any moisture after coating my hair in cones yesterday.

After my hair dryed, it felt very silky and super soft.
Much softer than yesterday.

So my question is: How is that possible?
I have read on here and other sites that cones block moisture from getting into your hair and they also lock moisture in to hold onto it.

I have read that you can't remove cones using the CO method.

But can you absorb MORE moisture after you have used cones?

There are a couple very long haired members who use cones regularly with or following CO washes.
One uses shampoo once a week thereby removing the cone build-up, but just yesterday I learned that another member rarely if ever shampoos.
And yet her hair is silky, soft, stunning.

I am very confused by all of it and would love to hear what everyone thinks.
Thanks!

earthdancer
May 3rd, 2009, 12:08 PM
I've come to the conclusion that it all depends on your hair type, condition, water, weather, etc. There are an infinite variety of variables, so what doesn't work for some people will work very well for others. Even for me, not everything that works is just as good all the time. I have to vary my routine constantly, since what worked last week might be terrible this week!

Silver Strands
May 3rd, 2009, 12:17 PM
Thanks for responding earthdancer.

Up until yesterday I thought I understood it all.
Use cones but be sure to shampoo fairly regularly and all should be fine.

But upon reading one member's routine and learning she uses cones regularly but only uses shampoo once or twice a year, threw all of it back up into the air.

Silverlox
May 3rd, 2009, 12:36 PM
I think it could depend on what type of cone it is. Some are supposed to be water soluble, while others are not.

Water soluble cones would wash out with just water and also with a CO. While the water resistant cones would need shampoo, Baking Soda or other clarification.

Don't ask me which cones are what, though, because I have no idea.. :o

Silver Strands
May 3rd, 2009, 12:40 PM
Thanks Silverlox.
I'm pretty sure Dove has Dimethiconol and Amodimethicone, (not sure of the spelling of these 2) both of which aren't water soluble.

So the mystery continues........

ratgirldjh
May 3rd, 2009, 12:42 PM
It may actually take a while for your hair to be permeated with cones.

I have never used Dove Shampoo or Conditioner - but I have used Avalon Organics Lavender conditioner which has a lot of cones evidently... The first time I would use it - beautiful hair! The second time limp hair... then it would get drier and drier and drier...

That was the fastest building up conditioner I have ever used!!! Even the matching shampoo and using it 2 times couldn't stop the build up!

I used to use Garnier Fructis and it has a lot of cones and waxes. It took me months and months to get enough cone and/or wax build up that my hair started to be dry instead of conditioned.

Silver Strands
May 3rd, 2009, 12:57 PM
Thanks for responding ratgirldjh.

I have also bought the Avalon Organics and was surprised to find cones in them.
I also think that those of us with gray hair can absorb more cones quicker since our grays are drier and more coarse or absorbent.

Maybe the cones don't block moisture from coming in completely.
They aren't concrete after all!

But as far as build-up, 6 months to a year seems like a long time to use cones without shampoo and still have stunning hair.

It is an ongoing discussion around here.
But it is interesting how my hair became softer using CO without removing the cones first.

spidermom
May 3rd, 2009, 01:24 PM
Not very long ago I read an article by a trichologist (scientist specializing in hair), and he said that there is no such thing as buildup. The cuticle opens and closes in response to moisture in the atmosphere, changes in pH, and various other factors. Our hair gets rubbed against the pillow and various other things, combed, brushed, fingers run through. Anything we apply is temporary; most are gone by the time our hair dries. Yet people keep on talking about buildup as though it is scientific fact when it is not. Personally speaking, I would have to say that I have had buildup. But I'm no scientist.

Silver Strands
May 3rd, 2009, 01:27 PM
Thank-you Spidermom,
That makes the most sense of anything i've read yet.
A voice of reason.

Cones help in humid weather but i'm sure they aren't waterproof or our hair wouldn't get wet when it rained out while using them.

Rapunzal2Be
May 3rd, 2009, 03:44 PM
Thank-you Spidermom,
That makes the most sense of anything i've read yet.
A voice of reason.

Cones help in humid weather but i'm sure they aren't waterproof or our hair wouldn't get wet when it rained out while using them.

Very good point!

I guess my hair just does well with 'cones, because I've never really had a problem with build up or drying out. I have tried some natural stuff and while my hair still feels soft, maybe even softer, I just don't like the way it looks. I know it's often said around here that this product or that one 'takes time to get used to' but I think I'll just go back to what was working for me. Because whatever it is that's in my products that is making my hair thicker, shinier and sleeker, well yeah, that's exactly what I'm looking for!! :)

elliebean184
May 3rd, 2009, 04:23 PM
I use cones in my leave-in, but not in my CO, but I also sometimes style with straight-up dimethicone or cyclomethicone. For my hair it works. I usually shampoo once every couple weeks, mostly because the curls have gone crazy sitting in updos all day. It is funny how these products work differently on everyone!

DMARTINEZ
May 3rd, 2009, 07:25 PM
I have NEVER had buildup. I dont really believe all the hype. JMHO by the way. I use supposedly the heaviest cone,and still,NO buildup. I also use conefree stuff,CO with conefree,and the CO removes the cone stuff. SO, there you have it. I have not found any stuff that builds up,yet.;)

Deb

Silver Strands
May 3rd, 2009, 07:39 PM
I use cones in my leave-in, but not in my CO, but I also sometimes style with straight-up dimethicone or cyclomethicone. For my hair it works. I usually shampoo once every couple weeks, mostly because the curls have gone crazy sitting in updos all day. It is funny how these products work differently on everyone!

It is, and it's nice to know there are quite a few of us who find this to be so.



I have NEVER had buildup. I dont really believe all the hype. JMHO by the way. I use supposedly the heaviest cone,and still,NO buildup. I also use conefree stuff,CO with conefree,and the CO removes the cone stuff. SO, there you have it. I have not found any stuff that builds up,yet.;)

Deb

That is a relief to hear.
I have tried to go completely cone free but I always go back to using them in addition to the cone free for CO like you do.
It just works best for me.
But then you worry that you will have the dreaded "hidden damage". And so the second guessing starts all over again.


Very good point!

I guess my hair just does well with 'cones, because I've never really had a problem with build up or drying out. I have tried some natural stuff and while my hair still feels soft, maybe even softer, I just don't like the way it looks. I know it's often said around here that this product or that one 'takes time to get used to' but I think I'll just go back to what was working for me. Because whatever it is that's in my products that is making my hair thicker, shinier and sleeker, well yeah, that's exactly what I'm looking for!! :)

Yeah, I have a couple non cone products I really like and have used for years.
They make my hair very soft.
But without cones in addition to them I have hair that poufs in humidity and gray hair that is drier and springs everywhere instead of laying down nicely.
So the cones add sleekness, silkiness, and protection from humidity.

Rapunzal2Be
May 4th, 2009, 02:26 AM
It is, and it's nice to know there are quite a few of us who find this to be so.




That is a relief to hear.
I have tried to go completely cone free but I always go back to using them in addition to the cone free for CO like you do.
It just works best for me.
But then you worry that you will have the dreaded "hidden damage". And so the second guessing starts all over again.



Yeah, I have a couple non cone products I really like and have used for years.
They make my hair very soft.
But without cones in addition to them I have hair that poufs in humidity and gray hair that is drier and springs everywhere instead of laying down nicely.
So the cones add sleekness, silkiness, and protection from humidity.

I'm so glad we started threads like this, because I was really getting freaked out over the "hidden damage" that may be going on and now feel a lot better about just going back to my fave products.

LadyEliza
May 5th, 2009, 02:26 AM
And another rumour about cones - I was told by a hair dresser, many years ago (about 10 years) when my hair was long, that I shouldn't use Pantene because it's fine for a little while and then your hair turns to jelly.

It's now 10 years later. No jelly yet!

Lile
May 5th, 2009, 04:19 AM
I'm happy to hear about these differences. Since I joined LHC I'm pretty confused about what things are good and what are bad...
The only thing I'm sure about is that all natural products are great for scalp,so the growing hair will be healthy.The healthier the hair is,the more resistent to damage it will be(if that makes sense).
So I truly believe in natural things.As long as my scalp feels good,I'm happy about my hair.
I'm not really concerned about the importance of using so many nice herbs on my ends though,since it's the dead part of the hair.It seems to be a waste of good conditioners.
And there the cheap coney ones come...(they seem to help with my previous damage from perm)

Hm...still have to work it out....

brok3nwings
May 5th, 2009, 04:45 AM
Lile i dont agree its a waist of conditioners on your lenght cause if you are growing that will be the problematic part when it starts to dry or damage. I dont know but i take care of both parts, scalp and lenght!

Personally i stoped using cones first because i was curious and then cause i liked the idea of organic and less chemical. If it hadnt worked for me i woudnt have problems to go back. Now i do use cones once in a while and its amodimethicone if im not wrong. I like it but i dont feel it makes my hair better then whitout it. The main reason why i like my hair better without cones is because i can see more of my waves without the cones. thats the main reason. But if someone feels that the hair has too much "stuff" it can be wax, oils, whatever.. just wash it proprely and give the best moisture possible then.

But about the inicial question i think it is possible to do that (to use cones a lot and dont wash as much) it will all depend on the product, the hair and all of the other ambient factors

Silverlox
May 5th, 2009, 05:15 AM
I have NEVER had buildup. I dont really believe all the hype. JMHO by the way. I use supposedly the heaviest cone,and still,NO buildup. I also use conefree stuff,CO with conefree,and the CO removes the cone stuff. SO, there you have it. I have not found any stuff that builds up,yet.;)

Deb

My shampoo is full of cones, so is my conditioner and my leave-in. Still I've never had any sign of build-up.

When I first came to LHC and read about how clarifying was necessary, because everybody gets build-up, I was thoroughly confused. Perhaps I had lots of build-up and never even knew? :silly:

Then I investigated the matter and found out that you always know if you have build-up. Granted, you might not know that the problem is build-up, but you know something is wrong as your hair is behaving weirdly and feels wrong.

This has never happened to me, so I've decided that I don't have build-up. And since my normal routine with all the cone stuff seems to work well for my hair, I simply continued using it.
- Also, it's a real pain trying to find cone-free stuff in my little town, I've basically given even looking. :rolleyes:

Lile
May 5th, 2009, 05:59 AM
Lile i dont agree its a waist of conditioners on your lenght cause if you are growing that will be the problematic part when it starts to dry or damage. I dont know but i take care of both parts, scalp and lenght!

Personally i stoped using cones first because i was curious and then cause i liked the idea of organic and less chemical. If it hadnt worked for me i woudnt have problems to go back. Now i do use cones once in a while and its amodimethicone if im not wrong. I like it but i dont feel it makes my hair better then whitout it. The main reason why i like my hair better without cones is because i can see more of my waves without the cones. thats the main reason. But if someone feels that the hair has too much "stuff" it can be wax, oils, whatever.. just wash it proprely and give the best moisture possible then.

But about the inicial question i think it is possible to do that (to use cones a lot and dont wash as much) it will all depend on the product, the hair and all of the other ambient factors


:D I meant using these expensive conditioners with a ton of herbs in it is a waste on the length.Not on the scalp.Ends will not benefit from them. And the cones are meant to keep the ends protected.

Buddaphlyy
May 5th, 2009, 08:00 AM
Not very long ago I read an article by a trichologist (scientist specializing in hair), and he said that there is no such thing as buildup. The cuticle opens and closes in response to moisture in the atmosphere, changes in pH, and various other factors. Our hair gets rubbed against the pillow and various other things, combed, brushed, fingers run through. Anything we apply is temporary; most are gone by the time our hair dries. Yet people keep on talking about buildup as though it is scientific fact when it is not. Personally speaking, I would have to say that I have had buildup. But I'm no scientist.

You know, I heard this too, but it had to do with water temperature. Apparently the "cuticle closing cold water rinse" doesn't do anything except make you cold. I do believe in build up also, but I always thought that the notion only cones give you build up was a propaganda move by some hair care companies. Because you can get buildup from anything if you use it often it enough.


I'm so glad we started threads like this, because I was really getting freaked out over the "hidden damage" that may be going on and now feel a lot better about just going back to my fave products.

I don't believe in hidden damage either. Unless you are doing something that's damaging, there's nothing to "hide" behind cones or anything else.