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Rapunzal2Be
May 3rd, 2009, 07:06 AM
If you choose not to use them, may I ask why?

Is it because they don't work well for you or because they are not good for your hair?

What I'm really asking is - do 'cones *actually damage* hair? Or do some people just stay away from them because they want to stay natural, etc.?

:confused: Thank you!

nayver
May 3rd, 2009, 07:27 AM
Well, I have used cone and no cones products. Now I'm not using cones, first, because I'm in a conditioner only routine, and second because I don't think I need them. I've found many other ways to detangle, give shine and repair hair (oils for instance). You have to try both ways and see which one is the best that suits you.

mira-chan
May 3rd, 2009, 07:28 AM
If you choose not to use them, may I ask why?

Is it because they don't work well for you or because they are not good for your hair?

What I'm really asking is - do 'cones *actually damage* hair? Or do some people just stay away from them because they want to stay natural, etc.?

:confused: Thank you!
Nothing works perfectly for every single person, so for even the most wonderful things, there will be people who can't use them.

There are several reasons for avoiding cone.

1. Trying to be more natural, or going cone free for the sake of being cone free.

2. Oils work better without cones on the hair.

3. Hair feels like bad plastic doll hair with cones on. (mine does)

4. Drier hairtypes, hair will dry out under the cones as they don't let moisture in, thus causing breakage. This especially applies if you don't wash hair very, such as once a week. (Applies to me too.)

5. Sensitivities. Cones themselves can be an allergen to people. Some get acne from them, others, like me, itch. Also cones require sulfates to remove, and a lot more people are sensitive to sulfates than cones. If you can't use a sulfate shampoo, you can't remove the cones.

Misha
May 3rd, 2009, 08:04 AM
Hi Rapunzal2Be,

I have always used cones in the past with no issue, no damage.

Then for a long time (maybe 1.5 years +) I tried no cones. And worked just fine, as long as I used a no-cone conditioner with slip (Suave Juicy Green Apple, or V05).

Now that my hair is longer, I need more slip to help with tangles, and I have started using cones again (Sunsilk brand :thumbsup: , and now I need cones even with light oiling daily) and it's just perfect! In fact better than no cones for me now.

As others have mentioned, there are some reasons to avoid cones. For other people cones work just fine or better. Just experiment.

florenonite
May 3rd, 2009, 09:18 AM
They can cause damage, especially if your hair is dry and you wash infrequently. I can use 'cones if I'm washing regularly with a sulphate shampoo, I can't if I'm washing weekly (something I've recently started doing) with a milder 'poo. I only recently discovered this (thinking my hair looked lovely and shiny in my pics from Christmas, when I was using 'cones as I was at home) and have a fair bit of damage at the ends as a result. This is because they seal out moisture as well as seal it in, so they're not always the best option.

girlcat36
May 3rd, 2009, 09:40 AM
My hair is curly, fine, and fragile. I unwittingly used cones over the course of the last 20 years. Pantene, Loreal, etc...
During this time my hair would not grow. I didn't get it----I wasn't heat styling, coloring, brushing, or cutting.
Turns out my hair was breaking off on the ends. The cones would coat my hair, not allowing moisture to penetrate. I had chronic brittle, breaking hair that wouldn't grow past APL.
I have been cone-free for two years now, and am finally BSL!

Rapunzal2Be
May 3rd, 2009, 09:44 AM
They can cause damage, especially if your hair is dry and you wash infrequently. I can use 'cones if I'm washing regularly with a sulphate shampoo, I can't if I'm washing weekly (something I've recently started doing) with a milder 'poo. I only recently discovered this (thinking my hair looked lovely and shiny in my pics from Christmas, when I was using 'cones as I was at home) and have a fair bit of damage at the ends as a result. This is because they seal out moisture as well as seal it in, so they're not always the best option.

Oh, so that's why my hair was looking so awesome when I was shampooing and conditioning and using serum daily (all with 'cones)!!

Now I'm CO'ing mostly with both a non-cone clarifying conditioner and then my normal cone conditioner - and my hair is FLUFFY as all get-out. It's soft and feels great, but it looks flyaway everywhere - and it used to be so sleek.

So should I just go back to WC every day like I was? I've been trying to cut back on shampooing b/c of all I've read here - it seems like the vast majority of people who successfully grow long hair do not wash daily.

I would like to keep my conditioner and serum, but am thinking of doing away with the SLS shampoo that goes along with it. Any suggestions? If I use a poo bar with my conditioner daily would that work and would my sleek hair come back?

Rapunzal2Be
May 3rd, 2009, 09:46 AM
My hair is curly, fine, and fragile. I unwittingly used cones over the course of the last 20 years. Pantene, Loreal, etc...
During this time my hair would not grow. I didn't get it----I wasn't heat styling, coloring, brushing, or cutting.
Turns out my hair was breaking off on the ends. The cones would coat my hair, not allowing moisture to penetrate. I had chronic brittle, breaking hair that wouldn't grow past APL.
I have been cone-free for two years now, and am finally BSL!

Girlcat, this is exactly what I'm afraid of. I am worried that if I continue my routine as is, I'll have gorgeous hair now, but it may not be healthy enough to last in the long run. Kind of shooting myself in the foot.

Problem is, I love the way my hair looks with my 'coney products. (Dimethicone is the big one, I think, in them).

What is the alternative?? How do I get my hair SLEEK without 'cones? Or is there a way to find a balance?

Silver Strands
May 3rd, 2009, 09:57 AM
I keep hearing how cones block moisture out but there are a couple members here who use cones and have very soft hair.
I discounted one because she washes once weekly, so it would go to reason that she is removing any cone build-up.

But, just yesterday I saw a long standing member post their latest profile picture of incredible hair, went to her blog and read that not only does she use cones for CO washes on a regular basis, but she also only "shampoos once or twice a YEAR"!

Now how does she have such lovely, silky hair if the cones are blocking out moisture?

And according to all we read, if it were true that cones damage hair over time and they need to be clarified out, wouldn't her hair be dry and breaking off by the handfulls?

Instead, she has one of the most stunning heads of hair on here.
Using cones for CO.
Any only shampooing once or twice a year!

girlcat36
May 3rd, 2009, 10:43 AM
I keep hearing how cones block moisture out but there are a couple members here who use cones and have very soft hair.
I discounted one because she washes once weekly, so it would go to reason that she is removing any cone build-up.

But, just yesterday I saw a long standing member post their latest profile picture of incredible hair, went to her blog and read that not only does she use cones for CO washes on a regular basis, but she also only "shampoos once or twice a YEAR"!

Now how does she have such lovely, silky hair if the cones are blocking out moisture?

And according to all we read, if it were true that cones damage hair over time and they need to be clarified out, wouldn't her hair be dry and breaking off by the handfulls?

Instead, she has one of the most stunning heads of hair on here.
Using cones for CO.
Any only shampooing once or twice a year!

I think it would depend on your hair type. As I said, my hair is fine, curly and fragile. This means that my hair is very porous and dry. Cones exacerbated this problem.
My hair will always be dry and porous, not because of how I treat it, but because that is natural for my hair type.
I think if one has medium or coarse hair, 1a-2b cones could be an asset. Those types of hair would naturally be more moisturized, and cones would seal in that moisture.
My hair is constantly losing moisture, and cones would block the remoisturizing of my hair.
I can't say that cones are bad for everyone, but they are evil for my hair! :evil:

florenonite
May 3rd, 2009, 10:58 AM
Oh, so that's why my hair was looking so awesome when I was shampooing and conditioning and using serum daily (all with 'cones)!!

Now I'm CO'ing mostly with both a non-cone clarifying conditioner and then my normal cone conditioner - and my hair is FLUFFY as all get-out. It's soft and feels great, but it looks flyaway everywhere - and it used to be so sleek.

So should I just go back to WC every day like I was? I've been trying to cut back on shampooing b/c of all I've read here - it seems like the vast majority of people who successfully grow long hair do not wash daily.

I would like to keep my conditioner and serum, but am thinking of doing away with the SLS shampoo that goes along with it. Any suggestions? If I use a poo bar with my conditioner daily would that work and would my sleek hair come back?

You can, but you will most likely need to use the SLS shampoo occasionally to remove build-up. Any time your hair starts tangling, really.


Girlcat, this is exactly what I'm afraid of. I am worried that if I continue my routine as is, I'll have gorgeous hair now, but it may not be healthy enough to last in the long run. Kind of shooting myself in the foot.

Problem is, I love the way my hair looks with my 'coney products. (Dimethicone is the big one, I think, in them).

What is the alternative?? How do I get my hair SLEEK without 'cones? Or is there a way to find a balance?

Vinegar! Use about a tablespoon (15 mL) of vinegar in a cup (250 mL) of water, pour it over your head after shampooing, let it soak in whilst you do other stuff in the shower, and rinse out with cold water. Voilą! Shiny, silky, sleek hair ^.^

Silver Strands
May 3rd, 2009, 11:17 AM
Yes, I can see that for some people they might not work based on personal hair or the product being used just doesn't work for them.

But I would also think that hair that has been around for 5- 7 years has to be at least a little dry and porous and therefore you would expect the cones to block moisture out of at least the lowest portion of her hair.
And yet, it apparently hasn't.

Niphredil
May 3rd, 2009, 12:04 PM
I can use cones in moderation (have been to the plasticy feeling stadium which is not good), but need to wet my hair regularly or it gets dry and tangly from being dehydrated. I wash about twice a week but I do use shampoo with SLES.


My hair looks better (less frizzy and fly-a-way-ish) with cones. The cones give a bit more support to my fine strands, protect the ends from tangle related damage and to top it off they give my hair increased shine. Without cones my hair is a bit softer to the touch and a bit less slippery, but with considerably increased tangling.

I do have to be careful though, washing regularly (but not daily) and be aware of build-up. I CWC most wash-days but I need to do a clarifying SC about every 2 months.

Fluke
May 3rd, 2009, 01:58 PM
I have fine, straight hair and I purposely don't use cones because it gives me crazy static and makes my hair look dirty. It clumps together and looks greasy after a couple of hours and it won't go away before I wash it again, and the cycle repeats.

Before I got wise I felt I HAD to wash my hair daily or more because of this.

Without cones even when my hair IS dirty it looks better and less dirty than it did when I used products with cones.
I never had my hair longer than about APL so I have no experience with how it affects growth and moisture content.

I think people with coarser hairtypes have less or no issues with the problems I as a fine-haired straightie have with cones :)

Copasetic
May 3rd, 2009, 02:02 PM
I stopped using cones originally because I was scared that they would damage my hair, but I have stayed with it because my hair just looks better when it is cone free.

Rapunzal2Be
May 3rd, 2009, 02:19 PM
Well, before I found this site I finally found a hair care line that was really working for me. It re-grew my hair, and made my length look sleek and shiny and thicker than before.

Then I came here and got hooked, started reading, and thought, "OMG I am doing it ALL wrong." My system uses SLS, parabens, 'cones, everything... I've been using it for the past few months now and have not had any problems with build up or looking gunky, dirty OR dry.

So I have spent the past two weeks experimenting with other things (coconut oil, honey, VO5, etc.) and although my hair is definitely soft and I am glad to find after clarifying that it even my ends are not "damaged" to any noticeable extent, it has lost its high gloss shine, it's sleekness, and the thick ends (which are now poofy and fluffy instead).

Sigh...I'm going back to my old standbys. I'm kind of sad, I was all excited about going natural, but I just don't think it is for me.

Rapunzal2Be
May 3rd, 2009, 02:21 PM
You can, but you will most likely need to use the SLS shampoo occasionally to remove build-up. Any time your hair starts tangling, really.



Vinegar! Use about a tablespoon (15 mL) of vinegar in a cup (250 mL) of water, pour it over your head after shampooing, let it soak in whilst you do other stuff in the shower, and rinse out with cold water. Voilą! Shiny, silky, sleek hair ^.^

I can totally alternate happily between a shampoo bar and my SLS shampoo. Honestly, before I read stuff here, I had no problems with SLS. I just hope all the shampoo bars I just ordered work well for me.

I don't know why - or if I am the only one - but my hair HATES ACV and white vinegar. Even at a very weak dilution, just sprayed on for a minute and rinsed out, they dry out my scalp and really do nothing great for my hair. :(

Roseate
May 3rd, 2009, 02:31 PM
Honestly, before I read stuff here, I had no problems with SLS.

Lots of people can use SLS with no problem; you're probably one of them! I always had varying degrees of crusty/flaky/scaly scalp while using it- I thought that was just how my scalp was, but it cleared up instantly when I cut out the SLS. But if your hair and scalp are happy with it, you're golden.

As your hair gets longer your ends will get drier just because they are older, so your S/C routine might stop working as well, but you can modify it by doing CWC or diluting your shampoo, or even doing CO with your coney conditioner and CWC once a week. There's all kinds of stuff you can try without leaving your favorite conventional products behind.

Many people find they need an acid rinse after poo bars; if your hair hates vinegar you might try lemon or lime juice.

GlassEyes
May 3rd, 2009, 02:53 PM
*clears throat* XD;

Cones usually only damage because they can build up and cause the hair to dry out by sealing out moisture.

They can, however, create slip and seal in moisture as well, so they can be helpful. Most people seem to avoid them because to cleanse them out and get new moisture in is to cleanse with an SLS shampoo, which is a harsh cleanser (actually a detergent) that can dry out and/or cause damage, more so than the cones I've found.

Cones can also weigh down hair, which is one reason I don't use them. They make my hair sticky. But they're useful for knitting splits temporarily and protecting from damage, moreso than any oil because the silicone barrier appears to be stronger. However, most people who are cone-free on here use oill as a replacement to great effect ebcause they can be cleansed out more easily than silicone without SLS. Conditioner alone seems to be enough for many people, ad often more effective than shampoo, thus they are sometimes the better choice.

To use cones or not depends on your hair type. Some people use them to great effect, others despise them. It all depends.

They are NOT the root of all evil.

Heidi_234
May 3rd, 2009, 03:19 PM
No such bad experience with cones.
BUT -
I discovered that shampoos are just too harsh on my hair and scalp. When I stopped using them my shedding, which I thought nothing can help it, decreased immensely. I also strongly believe that shampoos are drying out the hair really badly. I've seen want a change it can do to stop using shampoos, it makes a huge difference when you stop stripping your hair and drying it out. The hair comes out different. Think about flat-iron damage, how it the damage accumulates gets worse with every time, how you hair will never be the same again.
Cones go hand in hand with shampoos. They build up and need to be clarified regularly. I actually hesitant each time I use my mildest shampoo for clarifying. I have to remind myself that once upon a time I used it all the time. Now every shampooing matters to me, because I want to grow out strong healthy shampoo free hair. That's why I prefer to avoid cone, I don't want to shampoo more than I have to. If I can go without, why not? Why should I?
My favorite conditioner does has a cone. It's way down the list, and it doesn't manage to build up before I clarify anyway, due to my hennaing. So that works for me.
So, this is yet another reason to choose a no-cone routine.

LadyEliza
May 3rd, 2009, 03:58 PM
I have used Pantene mostly for the past 10+ years.

So far, dispite predictions, it has not turned to jelly, or broken, or fallen out.

With I do use another shampoo/conditioner my hair feels like straw.

I can get away with using another shampoo, as long as I use the panteen conditioner.

In these two photos the difference is that one is with panteen, one is with a non cone shampoo/conditioner.

http://www.elizasart.com/temp/elizashait.jpg

http://www.elizasart.com/temp/hair.jpg

The moral, I think, is that cones are not dangerous in themselves, but that some people's hair prefer them, others do not. It's a personal choice.

Rapunzal2Be
May 3rd, 2009, 04:38 PM
Thanks for all of the answers/info/opinions, everyone!

elliebean184
May 3rd, 2009, 05:32 PM
Hmm- It suddenly occurs to me (I posted on one of the other cone threads) that maybe I've been having luck with cones since I use them only when my hair is wet- RIGHT out of the shower. Applying cones onto dry hair kills it for me- dry and bushy. Maybe using it on wet hair helps seal moisture in and then the cones wear off (onto pillow, clothes, hands, etc.) or evaporate before they can seal moisture out?
Anybody else notice this?

Silver Strands
May 3rd, 2009, 08:25 PM
I have used Pantene mostly for the past 10+ years.

So far, dispite predictions, it has not turned to jelly, or broken, or fallen out.

With I do use another shampoo/conditioner my hair feels like straw.

I can get away with using another shampoo, as long as I use the panteen conditioner.

In these two photos the difference is that one is with panteen, one is with a non cone shampoo/conditioner.

http://www.elizasart.com/temp/elizashait.jpg

http://www.elizasart.com/temp/hair.jpg

The moral, I think, is that cones are not dangerous in themselves, but that some people's hair prefer them, others do not. It's a personal choice.


Wow! What an amazing difference!

LadyEliza
May 4th, 2009, 03:16 AM
I want to point out that the top photo, where it looks better, is with the Pantene. The other was with a non cone brand that I will only be using in emergency, even though it smells nice.

Silver Strands
May 4th, 2009, 06:57 AM
I want to point out that the top photo, where it looks better, is with the Pantene. The other was with a non cone brand that I will only be using in emergency, even though it smells nice.


Yes, I could tell which one was which.
It is amazing to see such a dramatic difference between using 2 different products on the same head of hair.

If you have at least 2b hair and above, I wonder why someone would choose NOT to use cones after seeing your pictures.
Your hair looks so much softer, shinier and healthier in the top picture.

helen2806
May 4th, 2009, 07:09 AM
I tried going cone free for about 2 months and didn't get great results - my hair was really fluffy and my waves wouldn't behave very well.

Like LadyEliza I definitely need them if I want happy hair!

JamieLeigh
May 4th, 2009, 10:54 AM
It's my understanding that -cones mask the damage by coating your hair strands so that it gives the illusion of non-splits and non-flyaways. I've chosen not to use them and it's for that reason. I would rather correct these problems and have them not return, rather than just hiding them away.

Plus, -cones tend to weigh down my hair and get rid of my waves, and I'm really enjoying my waves lately. :)

HappyKarin
May 4th, 2009, 11:41 AM
For the moment I use cones.
I have no problems with using oils and cones together. And I'm also using a SLS free schampo with cones in...with no problems. It is Lanza healing moisture.
But I'm thinking of going cone free for a while. In February I cut of an inch of my hair and it became more manageable and more slippery. That day I washed my hair (every 3:rd day) the bun wont stay in place. The other days it stay in better place.

Curlsgirl
May 4th, 2009, 12:07 PM
I have used both non-cone routines and cone routines for extended periods of time. What it comes down to for ME is:

Cones: Make my hair feel waxy and coated and my hair dries out faster especially as I only wash usually once a week, heavier and not as curly or shiny as the week goes on, gets greasy faster.

Non-cones: No build up at all. Even using an SLS once a week I get buildup with cones. Hair is bouncier, shinier and waves better. Can use oil to help seal in moisture and in between and can't with cones or that is don't see the benefit with it. Hair is just overall not as dry period and seems to be a lot healthier long term. JUST my opinion. My hair also tends to be on the dry and porous side, not sure if that makes a difference or not, just my personal experience.

spidermom
May 4th, 2009, 12:20 PM
I go back and forth. I like certain things about using cones - easier to untangle, shiny like a mirror, less of a problem with frizz. I like certain things about no cones - softer, better curl.

Silver Strands
May 4th, 2009, 12:26 PM
The thing I don't like about cone free is I end up using more and more oil to smooth the frizzies or my more wiry grays.

In doing so, my hair smells oily, feels heavy and needs washing sooner.
I have also gotten a few pimples on my shoulders and at nearly 50, that is the last thing I want to see on me.

LadyEliza
May 5th, 2009, 03:11 AM
I'm confused by the comments I hear about cones disguising damage.

If you see no damage, feel no damage - has been that way for years - then what's the difference between that and no damage?

Seems like it's "no damage" to me!

Boy that's complicated. :)

I mean - I think I have no damage because I have no damage, not because I use a cone conditioner that hides any damage.

errr - my hair isn't damaged?

I still think it's just personal preference.

RetroKitten
May 25th, 2009, 06:37 PM
A few days ago (can't remember where) I read that cones are made of mineral oil and have negative impact on the environment... is that true?

teela1978
May 25th, 2009, 06:48 PM
I was just noticing that my hair hasn't been looking as nice as it was a bit ago... and that I've been cone-free for about a month... Thought I'd add my own example to LadyEliza's :)

Cones:
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/picture.php?albumid=889&pictureid=30197

No Cones:
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/picture.php?albumid=889&pictureid=38827

I find it to be a lot less shiny, a lot more difficult to comb, and it really doesn't fall as nicely without cones.

florenonite
May 26th, 2009, 12:21 PM
A few days ago (can't remember where) I read that cones are made of mineral oil and have negative impact on the environment... is that true?

I was reading in The Globe and Mail recently that some 'cones have been banned in Canada because they have a negative effect on the environment when they get into the water system. The Globe is a fairly reliable source, I'd say (though I once read an article on a rather poorly done study that "proved" hourglass-shaped women are more likely to cheat on their partners :rolleyes:).

Helen Baq
May 26th, 2009, 05:57 PM
Ok, maybe I'm insane, but in the two instances of comparison photos posted I like the non-coney photos both times. I think the hair looks shinier and less frizzy and just better. Sorry... :(

I also like my hair better without cones. I think it's not crunchy, softer and shinier, though it is more fluffy, especially around the base of my braid, but all in all I like it much better. :)

teela1978
May 26th, 2009, 07:43 PM
Ok, maybe I'm insane, but in the two instances of comparison photos posted I like the non-coney photos both times. I think the hair looks shinier and less frizzy and just better. Sorry... :(

Really? I find my coney picture to be much smoother (top) than non-coney (bottom). It feels better with cones too. Much easier to comb out. Guess it's my opinion that counts though.

morguebabe
May 26th, 2009, 07:47 PM
Time to ad mine I just started cone free again.
Cones:
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/picture.php?albumid=2109&pictureid=36411
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/picture.php?albumid=2109&pictureid=35865
No Cones:
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/picture.php?albumid=2109&pictureid=40034
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/picture.php?albumid=2109&pictureid=40035

Not sure.

teela1978
May 26th, 2009, 09:09 PM
Not sure.

They look the same to me, both are gorgeous. Interesting how different products do different things to different hair.

plainjanegirl
May 26th, 2009, 09:26 PM
I am kinda torn between cones or no cones. They both have goods and bads. But to take comparison pics (which I never thought of) how long would you use the selected way?

morguebabe
May 26th, 2009, 09:40 PM
I think the norm is AT LEAST a month.

Helen Baq
May 26th, 2009, 10:18 PM
Really? I find my coney picture to be much smoother (top) than non-coney (bottom). It feels better with cones too. Much easier to comb out. Guess it's my opinion that counts though.

Yes, that is what counts! :)

teela1978
May 26th, 2009, 10:23 PM
I'd say a month or so as well. I really like the comparison pics by the way. It'd be nice to see some by people who don't like cones... I suppose we don't usually take pics when we don't like our hair though.

hmmm
September 24th, 2009, 12:13 PM
Ok, maybe I'm insane, but in the two instances of comparison photos posted I like the non-coney photos both times. I think the hair looks shinier and less frizzy and just better. Sorry... :(

I also like my hair better without cones. I think it's not crunchy, softer and shinier, though it is more fluffy, especially around the base of my braid, but all in all I like it much better. :)

I agree with this, I liked the no-cone pictures better too. They're fuller and look thicker and more healthy instead of just laying flat.

friskybiznus
September 24th, 2009, 01:13 PM
I'm still new to all of this, too. :o I'm still experimenting, but, so far, my hair feels and behaves better with cones. I've used cones all my life (was clueless about them until I joined this site) and I've abused my hair all too often (coloring, dreadlocks, heat). But recently I had a trim and the hairdresser told me I had very little damage to my hair. :cheese:

I think for me, just treating my hair to quality products (cone-free or cone-filled shampoos and condishes), a good brush and comb, oiling with jojoba or coconut oil, and taking it easy with the blow-fryer will be good things to protect my hair.

GoddesJourney
September 24th, 2009, 03:06 PM
Cones make me shed more and so do sulphates.

melikai
September 24th, 2009, 08:05 PM
The thing that should be considered with the effects of cones as well is that some silicones are water-soluble and some are not. That could be why some people get more buildup than others, and why some have better results than others. I think it would have to be more of a product comparison than simply cones versus no-cones.

For me, my hair is much better without them. They made me shed more, gave me static-y, flat, lank and darker hair. Without them, my hair is wavier (which I prefer), more full-bodied, softer, and to me looks more like...hair? Just more natural, I suppose. Which suits me better.

Oh, and for reference, I used mostly cones for a good 20-30 years before stopping about a year ago.