Tell me about fenugreek and hibiscus

[pariate]

Hi

I've heard that these are both good conditioning herbs for hair. Can anyone tell me about their experiences with them please? I've also heard that hibiscus can impart a red tone to the hair, which I'm keen to avoid, so any info on that would also be appreciated!

Thank you thank you.

P.S. I'm considering trying the dry herbs, not herb-infused oils because I'd like to incorporate the dry herbs into cassia mixes and herbal rinses.

[pariate]

Someone on another forum just put me on to this:

http://houseofstrauss.co.uk/modules/wfsection/article.php?articleid=59

It gives info on common English herbs and their applications for different hair types. Quite handy, I thought!

No indian/ayurvedic herbs though :shrug:

[Siowiel]

I am interestes in going "all-natural", and while it is no problem to find something to wash with, just oils for conditioner don't do it for me, so if fenugreek would indeed condition, that would be great news.

Now on to the question: Does anybody know what fenugreek is in German? I

[physicschick]

Definitely avoid hibiscus if you don't want red tones. (I didn't find it particularly conditioning myself, anyway.) I've never used fenugreek but have also read of people using it for conditioning. Sorry I can't help you with that!

[pariate]

Now on to the question: Does anybody know what fenugreek is in German? I

The latin name is Trigonella foenum graecum. That might help you track it down. You could try googling that phrase on a german search engine.

I hope that's useful! :flower:

[Neoma]

Fenugreek powder (methi or methy) provides tremendous slip. It smells like maple syrup to me.

I found that steeping whole, dried hibiscus flowers in my herbal cleansing mixtures also provided quite a bit of slip. The resulting "tea" can be quite staining to surfaces, though I didn't notice any color change. Then again, my hair is dark. It might for people with lighter hair.

[khyricat]

I only notice hibiscus color on my whites. on my darks its not, but I could see it imparting reddish tones otherwise.

I love my hibiscus, so never experimented with fenugreek though that was my next step.it is conditioning for me.. though I use a TINY amount of oil in addition to it.

[mellie]

Here are before and after photos of my hibiscus rinse:

http://portlandviolin.bizland.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/beforeamla.jpghttp://portlandviolin.bizland.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/honeyhibiscus.jpg

It did seem to make my hair shiny and smooth, but it definitely imparts a red color for me. I prefer honey for conditioning.

I haven't tried fenugreek, sorry!

[andrea1982]

I ground fenugreek seeds, then mixed with yogurt and applied to my hair. Gave great slip, felt really conditioning, but smelled really bad! I mean my hair smelled kind of gross for days, even through washes (I guess this means it stays on the hair longer for better conditioning benefits). Also, if you don't apply it quick enough it kind of "sets" like cement. I think next time I'll try soaking the seeds overnight and applying the gel, rather than grinding the seeds into a powder. I found them super cheap in the Indian section of my grocery store.

[Yari]

Siowiel, fenugreek means Bockshornklee (http://www.google.de/search?q=bockshornklee&ndsp=18&um=1&hl=de&client=firefox-a&channel=s&rls=org.mozilla:de:official&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=iw).

I tried it once. Honestly, i remember next to nothing about it. It had a fragant smell like lovage, a tad sharp but pleasant.

[Kittybe]

I used to use a mix of shikakai and amla to wash my hair and then a mix of hibiscus and fenugreek to condition. I have medium brown hair with natural golden/blond highlights. I didn't notice any change in colour but my hair came out so soft. Now that I've been reminded of this, I think I'll use a fenugreek paste tomorrow after I wash my hair and see if it helps with the dryness I've been experiencing lately.

[ChloeDharma]

I use Methi (Fenugreek) seed powder as a conditioner, often with things mixed in but the Methi is a keeper. As has been said it gives great slip and does just suck up all the water so i add a bit more just before washing to make it easier to use.
I really like it, it's used also to help hair growth.

Hibiscus i've tried a few times but i could only find it mixed with rosehips half and half....i never really noticed much reddening, maybe a teensy bit but my hair was already extreemely red so it was hard to tell. I did find that mix a bit drying though and had more tangles after it dried but i'm thinking it might have been the rosehip?

Anyway, i hope you enjoy them :)

[pariate]

Thank you to everyone! I'm ordering from Baldwins tomorrow -

Marshmallow root,
Rose petals,
Elderflowers,
Comfrey, and
Fenugreek.

I'm also getting heaps more sage and cassia.

I'll post back here as I experiment with the herbs, especially the fenugreek and marshmallow root.

I'm really starting to love herbal haircare ;)

[ChloeDharma]

Thank you to everyone! I'm ordering from Baldwins tomorrow -

Marshmallow root,
Rose petals,
Elderflowers,
Comfrey, and
Fenugreek.

I'm also getting heaps more sage and cassia.

I'll post back here as I experiment with the herbs, especially the fenugreek and marshmallow root.

I'm really starting to love herbal haircare ;)


OK hopefully you see this before ordering......don't order the fenugreek from Baldwins.....not that there's anything wrong with them at all, but it'll be MUCH cheaper from an Indian grocers, i paid £1.49 for 400g of ground Methi.

[pariate]

Ooooo, thanks for that Chloe :) There's an indian grocers near my BF's place, I'll ask him to have a snoop for me.

I do love Baldwins. They're kind of my one-stop shop now! But I'm always happy to hear about cheaper sources.

Quick question for everyone - do you think it would be better for me to get the powder or the seeds? Do you think it would make any difference?

[icydove]

I would get the powder over the seeds unless you have a good grinder. I've heard they are a pain to grind up.

I use hibiscus and elderflower tea with honey for my conditioner, and it is wonderful. I don't leave it on my hair for very long (maybe 30 seconds), so I don't notice any color difference. I do henna glosses, too, so I already have some red tones.

[ChloeDharma]

You are very welcome hun :) Baldwins is great for being able to get stuff and is cheaper than NYR, but yeah, I got the Dipesh brand which seems a cheap one. I'd also agree with Icydove, definately get the powder, it'll be yellow and bear in mind in the Indian grocers it will be labelled Methi.
I really hope you like it, make sure you let us know how you get on :)

[cutenappygrl]

Here are before and after photos of my hibiscus rinse:

http://portlandviolin.bizland.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/beforeamla.jpghttp://portlandviolin.bizland.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/honeyhibiscus.jpg

It did seem to make my hair shiny and smooth, but it definitely imparts a red color for me. I prefer honey for conditioning.

I haven't tried fenugreek, sorry!

you got amazing color - that's what I'm going for. How did you make/use the hibiscus and how long did your color last?

[mellie]

Thanks cutenappygrl (what a fun username!)!

Re: hibiscus rinse; I got some bulk hibiscus flowers at the herb store, and poured some boiling water over them. I am really bad about measuring stuff, but I would say it was probably 1/4 cup hibiscus and about 1 cup of water. Then I let it steep until cool (it was really really dark, almost black!), and poured it through my hair. Be careful - it stains any fabric it touches!!! :-)

[aprilmay]

Hibiscus blossoms are dark purple/red and when brewed they create a tea the same color. That color choice might be fun for some, but doesn't sound like that is what you are looking for.

[pariate]

Ktani very kindly PMd me with some information about Comfrey, and I thought I should post the links here so that anyone who might have been considering using Comfrey would also be aware. Thanks to Ktani for passing on the info :)

"Comfrey warnings

http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~frf/forum04/A-74.htm

http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/comfrey-000234.htm

http://www.mskcc.org/mskcc/html/69190.cfm

Comfrey is not recommended for topical use - on abraded skin or in quantity."

Certainly something to bear in mind ;)

[ktani]

Here is the missing link - does that sound weird, lol. ETA: it works now.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/story/2003/12/23/comfrey031223.html



Also some information on coltsfoot - a different plant with the same toxic substances as comfrey.

"coltsfoot. According to The PDR Family Guide to Natural Medicines & Healing Therapies, 1998 and a German Commission E Monograph, 1998 coltsfoot is potentially carcinogenic due to its pyrrolizidine alkaloid content, ... not recommended for repeated use on skin."
http://www.cosmeticscop.com/learn/cosmetic_dictionary.asp?id=1102&ingredient=coltsfoot

[sapphire-o]

I've used both. Hibiscus does leave a bit of red stain, but of course my hair is very dark with natural red glow nobody can tell any difference. I tested it on DH's shed hair (dark blond) and it made it a bit reddish. I don't know if that would wash off or not.

Fenugreek gives a lot of slip. I don't know about others but the powder I bought tend to form lumps, I usually mix it with water and put the paste into blender to make it smoother. Otherwise it's kinda hard to rinse out. If you got it stuck in your hair, don't worry. let it dry naturally, then flip it over a bathtub and shake the bits out. I don't think it would be noticeable in light hair but it can look like dandruff in dark hair. :) It leaves a maple smell on the hair that lingers for hours.

[Starr]

Fenugreek gives me amazing slip! In fact it's the best thing I've ever tried as far as slip and conditioning goes and it makes my hair feel incredibly soft. . . although I'm not as dilegent with it as I should be. Hibiscus made my hair a bit softer, but nothing extraordinary. . . and I didn't notice any additional red tones, but I henna and my hair already has red tones so that's not saying much.

[tiny_teesha]

i didnt notice any slip with fenugreek, i have the seeds though.
I herd that way back in the day they would leave it over ngiht and use it as a mask.

[Starr]

i didnt notice any slip with fenugreek, i have the seeds though.
I herd that way back in the day they would leave it over ngiht and use it as a mask.

I use the powder in some sort of herbal mix, depending on what I'm in the mood for that day, and then apply the paste on wet hair and saran wrap for about an hour or longer if I'm too lazy to wash it out when it's time. Maybe using the powder would work better for you?

[heidsta]

I used fenugreek yesterday. I boilde some up on the stove and then left to cool fora couple of hours (think some people leave overnight.) I then massaged into my hair and scalp;. I belive it encourages hair growth so want to try this regularly. My hair felt so soft but I did smell a bit like a curry. A few hours later I washed and conditioned as normal and my hair felt sooo soift after. And it shines! I saved some of the (strained) liquid and will use in the week... only enough time to leave on for an hour pre-wash though. i wouldn't use it after a wash because it smells. I also made a conditioner using a recipe from the old board and used water steeped with fenugreek rather than plain water.. its lovely

[ChloeDharma]

i didnt notice any slip with fenugreek, i have the seeds though.
I herd that way back in the day they would leave it over ngiht and use it as a mask.

The powdered seeds are what i use....defintely easier than the whole seeds. I do find that i need to leave the methi to soak for a while before that kind of mucilage slippy stuff comes out so maybe you used it before that had a chance to come out?

[icydove]

I haven't really experimented with fenugreek in a strained form, but I cannot apply it directly to my hair in a mud form. It is a super pain for me to rinse all the flakes out. I also cannot tolerate that maple smell for long periods of time, and it lasts :lol: It is conditioning, and there are a lot of people who include it in their herbal washes.

[cutenappygrl]

So I just did a hibiscus rinse and my hair feels less wiry ( i recently had to use a strong dandruff shampoo). I did it for the color mellanie got but it gave me brown highlights instead of red ones - eventhough it was a reddish/purple after i infused it.

[mellie]

Hi cutenappygrl! That is so interesting that the hibiscus gave you brown highlights! I wish it would do that for me! :-)

I would love to see it. Can you post a photo?

[cutenappygrl]

It's already faded away .... :( oh well

[mellie]

Cutenappygrl, did you just add hot water to hibiscus flowers or did you do anything different? I am curious what you did that came out differently, because brown highlights are exactly what I'm looking for! :-)

[khyricat]

I get red distinctly out of the hibiscus, but only until rinsed.. I take a large handful of hibiscus and a smaller handful of elderflowers and fill a 3 qt pot with water over them, then bring it to a boil and keep it there for 10-15 minutes.. then I strain it into bottles to store in the fridge and warm in the shower/bath and pour over my hair...

[pariate]

Fenugreek gives a lot of slip.



:) It leaves a maple smell on the hair that lingers for hours.

Really? The stuff I have smells like curry! Don't get me wrong, I love curries but not sure if I want my hair to smell like it ;) Does it smell different once you've mixed it and applied it to hair then?

Thanks

[Leisa]

I found the hibiscus to be quite conditioning but the key is pouring it over the hair repeatedly, like 10 times.
(And make a strong tea that is dark in color).
And I rinse it out. :)

[cutenappygrl]

Cutenappygrl, did you just add hot water to hibiscus flowers or did you do anything different? I am curious what you did that came out differently, because brown highlights are exactly what I'm looking for! :-)

Sorry - i've been away from my computer for a while. I bought dried hibiscus flowers from my local health food store - it kinda looks like poutpori. I boiled 4 oz. of water in the microwave and then added a small amount of the dried hibiscus to it. It did come out reddish/purple. And it spritzed it in. Afterwards my hair had this bright sheen to it that wasn't red - more like orangy light brown. It was eird b/c my hair is dark brown. My mom didn't think it looked red - she said "off-brown".

[mellie]

Hm, interesting! Sounds pretty much the same as what I did. After the hibiscus had steeped in the water for a while, the water was so dark it was almost black. Was yours a little bit lighter than that? Maybe there is a difference in results depending on how long it steeps?

[cutenappygrl]

yeah mine was like the color of wine and i only let it sit for 5 min. before i started spraying it in. maybe it was because it was dried and not fresh...

[mellie]

Mine was dried too - but I think I let mine sit for a lot longer....very interesting! :-)

[mira-chan]

I've used both fenugreek and hibiscus only as conditioning/wash muds with good success. The trick to getting all of the fenugreek out for me is to have my hair in free float (I use a small basin). Fresh crushed hibiscus leaves and flowers can be used to wash too.

[RetroKitten]

Is it cheaper to use the methi powder or to buy the fenugreek seeds and make them into powder? I have no problems with some extra work, I am on a tight budget ;).

And did anyone find a way to reduce the smell of fenugreek, e.g. adding EO?

[brok3nwings]

About hibiscus i tried once to boil it to make a rinse cause i wanted red tones...but it turned out to be a red pink. So pink, for me, no no no

[BlndeInDisguise]

I'm *thinking* (But could be wrong) I saw fenugreek tea at my local health food store. Do you think it would work to use it has a rinse?

[mira-chan]

I'm *thinking* (But could be wrong) I saw fenugreek tea at my local health food store. Do you think it would work to use it has a rinse?
Fenugreek tea is usually from leaves not seeds which have slightly different properties. I'm not sure how well they would work.

[RetroKitten]

Are there any other uses for the fenugreek leaves? In the store - the didn't have the powder - I wasn't sure if it were the leaves (0.49 € / 0.65 $ for 50 g) or the seeds (1.29 € / 1.72 $ for 300g) I had to buy, so I took both home. Now I know that the seeds are mainly used and found a recipe for sesame oil infused with fenugreek leaves, but are there any other uses for the leaves?