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Whimsical wind
April 5th, 2008, 01:08 AM
My friend dyes her alot. Recently she's been using baking soda and vinegar instead of shampoo and conditioner. She tells me her hair has stopped taking colour. She thinks the vinegar is to blame. I'm not sure, but I wouldn't have thought so. So...is vinegar the culprit?

TIA

Elenna
April 5th, 2008, 01:26 AM
Wow, baking soda is a heavy duty cleanser and can be very drying to hair.

Sian100
April 5th, 2008, 01:49 AM
That happened to me when I used to dye my hair a lot as a teenager. Permanent dye would wash out of my hair in a few days. I would say that dyeing her hair a lot is causing it to become more porous.

KnightsLady
April 5th, 2008, 02:31 AM
I was advised to put vinegar in the water when washing clothes where the colours may run. Aparently it helps stop this occurring. I don't know that bicarb would be the problem, because in a tips and hints book I have, it is used with clothing dye to make the dye spread more evenly through the fabric.


Hi Whimsical,
Just noticed that you are from Australia. The tips and hints book is by Shannon Lush (ABC radio's "spotless" segment lady.)

GlassEyes
April 5th, 2008, 02:50 AM
Vinegar actually seals in dye and restores ph. I used it all the time on my colored hair to make it last quite a bit longer.

the problem is most likely the baking soda. It's a strong enough cleanser to not only strip out dye, but make the hair more porous. Also, and this is pure speculation, but it might be that she's using too high a concentration of baking soda, making the hair more base than the acidity of the vinegar rinse can save, and maybe that interferes with the dyeing process. I'm willing to bet chemical hair dyes are on the more base side of the ph scale, and maybe that has something to do with it. Or I could be insane.

In any case, check how much BS she's using. If it's anything more than 1-2 tablespoons diluted in over 2 cups of water (as in you should dilute that SAME amount of baking soda in whatever amount of water you need to cleanse the hair, never adding more of it) or if she's doing them far too often (it's a very strong cleanser) then I'd tel her to cut down on it. MAybe do CO washes for a bit? Or just vinegar rinses.

Another culprit could even be the baking soda building up on the hair if it isn't completely rinsed out. Ask her if she notices any stiffness in the hair, and maybe ask her how long she rinses it for. It should be around two minutes, and she should leave the ACV or whatever vinegar she's using on for a little bit (at least three). That buildup would prevent dye from taking, just like any kind of cone or possibly oil.

Also, and this may sound crazy, but maybe make sure she isn't using baking powder? xD

aisling
April 5th, 2008, 03:45 AM
That happened to me when I used to dye my hair a lot as a teenager. Permanent dye would wash out of my hair in a few days. I would say that dyeing her hair a lot is causing it to become more porous.

I agree with Sian, a lot of dyeing can make your hair so porous
it won't hold on to any dye. I doubt the problem is the vinegar and baking soda, except that as I find baking soda very drying, I'd imagine it could add to to porosity and bad shape of a dyed hair.

Whimsical wind
April 5th, 2008, 04:53 AM
Thanks! I really didn't think it was the vinegar. But I've passed the info on to my friend. Thanks again. :)

missy60
April 5th, 2008, 12:10 PM
If she has minerals in her water that could be the cause. Tell her to get a little packet at Sally's called Ion Crystal Clarifying Treatment. If she has any build up at all from anything this will remove it.

If she has problems after that with dye not taking its probably due to her hair being porous. She can also get something at Sally's for that.

Riot Crrl
April 5th, 2008, 01:02 PM
If it is indeed one of those two things (which it may not necessarily be) then I vote for the baking soda and not the vinegar, unless she's not diluting the vinegar enough or at all.

MeMyselfandI
April 5th, 2008, 01:03 PM
Another thing to consider is that the protein in the hair is damaged.


Using neutral protein filler helps retain colour for hair that is damaged.

It is also good on thin hair not to take up to much dye, making hair look dark or giving an uneven colour.

ChloeDharma
April 5th, 2008, 11:47 PM
That happened to me when I used to dye my hair a lot as a teenager. Permanent dye would wash out of my hair in a few days. I would say that dyeing her hair a lot is causing it to become more porous.

Yup, it's quite a known problem that if you chemically colour the hair regularly then after a while the hair isn't able to hold the colour pigments so well. So it's far more likely to be that.
Also like others have said, vinegar tends to help keep colour in the hair....i always find if i do an ACV rinse after henna then it takes longer to fade.

spidermom
April 5th, 2008, 11:56 PM
I think it's the combination of the baking soda and the frequent dyeing. Both BS and dyes lift the cuticle of the hair. After awhile the cuticle won't seal back down and the color bleeds out.

Riot Crrl
April 6th, 2008, 12:08 AM
I think it's the combination of the baking soda and the frequent dyeing. Both BS and dyes lift the cuticle of the hair. After awhile the cuticle won't seal back down and the color bleeds out.

Agreed, and this reminds me of another thing. It sounds counter-intuitive, but she may have more dyeing luck by switching from permanent to semi-permanent dye.

I'm no colorist nor chemist, and I have only speculation as to why this might be. But I know from experience that it happened on my hair. Permanent dyes rinsed out in three days, semi-permanents stuck forever.

Whimsical wind
April 6th, 2008, 03:01 AM
Agreed, and this reminds me of another thing. It sounds counter-intuitive, but she may have more dyeing luck by switching from permanent to semi-permanent dye.

I'm no colorist nor chemist, and I have only speculation as to why this might be. But I know from experience that it happened on my hair. Permanent dyes rinsed out in three days, semi-permanents stuck forever.

As far as I know, she only ever uses manic panic, and that's semi-permanent.

cindy58
April 6th, 2008, 09:35 AM
I remember once getting a smear of baking soda on some dark leggings (OK, it was a LONG time ago!) while baking, and the baking soda seemed to bleach the color right from that spot. So I would think it could have an effect on hair color. Though perhaps the amount of water the baking soda is mixed with, and the length of time it sits would also be considerations.