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BittSweetCherry
April 3rd, 2008, 07:43 AM
I've been cone-free for the last eight months or so, and while I'm pleased with some changes to my hair, I'm not with others; specifically, my 1b/F/i hair seems to be splitting more and severely developing the 'velcro effect' even when it's only out long enough to be brushed - some days when I have to retie my bun a couple of times without fingercombing first, it turns into one giant dreadlock! Ergo, I am looking for something easily washed out that will smooth AND strengthen my hair (don't we all!!)

Basically, I've found a cosmetic ingredients and oils wholesale store that sells panthenol by the bottle. I understand that it is used at around 1% concentration max, and I was planning to simply add some to my current conditioner and trial it for a while. But now I'm confused:

Some LHC members commented on it having a drying effect - what from? Is it volatile? Is it a barrier to other treatments like oiling?
Does anyone know if it's a water-soluble or fat-soluble compound (ie. does it wash out easily)? I don't want to replace cones for a carbon copy!
Does it penetrate the hair follicle, or bind to the cuticle as a coating? And what is its retention rate (ie. do the effects only last until the next wash or is it more permanent like a henna treatment, and the effects accumulate with use)? I keep hearing that it's one of the few substances that penetrates the hair cortex (see TBB source) and others say their role is closer to that of a lubricant (see other source).
I'm also seeing a lot of stuff about mixing phases when making conditioners, and a few recipes add panthenol early on at temperatures around 50 to 70C. Is this necessary? If it's dispersed as a suspended solution, does that change the efficacy?I've tried so hard to decipher product labels and get a firm grasp on the chemistry of all this, but my Googling skills just aren't good enough. Darn my decision not to take on chem in uni!


Sources: http://thebeautybrains.com/2007/09/05/how-to-tell-if-youre-spending-too-much-on-conditioner/

http://sci-toys.com/ingredients/panthenol.html

ChloeDharma
April 3rd, 2008, 08:17 AM
Ok, i can't actually answer your questions as you would want on account of being a bit thick and not really great at chemistry......but......

I seem to remember reading ages ago that Catnip contains Panthenol.....and there's a thread somewhere on here not far i think that discusses it's use for preventing split ends.....rather than all this fiddly chemical business would it be an idea to try that instead?

Off the panthenol topic slightly.....i have a very similar problem to you.....my ends are chemically processed and fairytale and are very prone to tangling.....even with being soaked in oil.....but, i do find using yogurt as a DT helps enormously, and turns them from a dreadlok waiting to happen, into smooth, shiney kind of nice ends.....here's some chemistry explanations of what it does for you ;)
http://www.freshpatents.com/Nutritive-restorative-yogurt-based-probiotic-hair-care-composition-dt20051117ptan20050255070.php
Are your ends chemically treated? If these things fail then it might be a case of using something with cones just on your ends to give some slip untill the damage has grown out maybe?

birdiefu
April 3rd, 2008, 11:33 AM
With your velcro-y, tangly end, have you tried S&D and clarifying (followed by moisture treatment) yet? Those are my usual cures for that problem.

As for panthenol, supposedly it can enter the cortex of the hair to help plump up the strand and attract moisture to the hair, but I don't have a study to link for you. Usage rate is about 0.1-0.5% for leave-on application, and 1-5% for rinse-out. Panthenol is water soluble, and you add it to the water phase. You probably want to get DL-panthenol, which can be found in liquid or powder form. You need a very accurate scale that can at least weight to the gram (less is better) if you will be using it in small batches (say, one conditioner bottle).

Since it's water soluble, you shouldn't get build-up issues on the outside of the hair shaft. Some people here report issues with panthenol, perhaps their hair doesn't like the additional bulk that panthenol can possibly give, or it affected their hair's moisture in a negative manner due to environment (other products, dry air?) or just because hair can be a fickle thing :P. Personally, I've not had issues with panthenol, but neither has it done wonders for my hair.

I've gotten panthenol from these two sources, they both perform well, but I prefer the powder form from Lotioncrafters.

http://www.snowdriftfarm.com/panthenol.html
http://www.lotioncrafter.com/store/dl-Panthenol-pr-16212.html

BittSweetCherry
April 5th, 2008, 05:55 AM
To be honest, I don't know if my ends are chemically treated or not. The last temporary (4 wash) dye was 3.5 years ago, and the last "permanent" dye was 4.5 years ago - but the latter was blue-black on light brown, unlightened hair, and washed out completely within a month! So I'm not sure if this stage has grown out and been trimmed, or what has happened.

I do S&D quite often - whenever I'm bored and my hair scissors are within walking distance, really - and the velcro effect is from my nape to my ends (about waist-length) which, thanks to hair grabs at jitsu, is FULL of broken and short hairs. I keep a close eye on any new splits, but my major problem is the light-weight short hairs which like to wrap around and tie themselves around other strands very easily. I guess I'm aiming to make my hair as strong as possible so that these sacrificed hairs can make it to terminal length, and something to smooth the cuticle down and perhaps weight the strands down to reduce the birdsnest effect.

I'm buying a static-free wide-toothed comb and a new ball-tipped paddle brush in the next week or so given my current tools are a bit old and cheap; I will see if they make any difference.

Thankyou for the youghurt and clarifying recommendations. I will try both :)

ktani
April 5th, 2008, 02:02 PM
Catnip contains pantothenic acid along with many other things but not panthenol.

Catnip constituents
http://www.monroecountymi.net/Medical%20Resources/Herbs%20&%20Vitamins/Herbs/catnip.htm

Panthenol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panthenol

Pantothenic acid
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantothenic_acid

DrkAngel
April 5th, 2008, 02:36 PM
I think I can help you with the first question. And the answer is yes, panthenol can have a drying effect. As I understand it, panthenol acts by drawing moisture from the air into the hair. But that moisture has to be in the air, meaning there has to be some humidity level present. That's why in very dry climates were humidity levels are very low, panthenol will work the other way around, drawing the moisture that is already in your hair into the air. So, I'd say, it really depends on your climate.

Riot Crrl
April 5th, 2008, 03:11 PM
I think I can help you with the first question. And the answer is yes, panthenol can have a drying effect. As I understand it, panthenol acts by drawing moisture from the air into the hair. But that moisture has to be in the air, meaning there has to be some humidity level present. That's why in very dry climates were humidity levels are very low, panthenol will work the other way around, drawing the moisture that is already in your hair into the air. So, I'd say, it really depends on your climate.

Yeah, I think that's with all humectants, glycerin being a quite popular one. In Seattle they almost work too well, lol. If they're used in say, deep treatments mixed with a lot of water/watery ingredients and then rinsed, I don't think this will be a problem. It's mainly when they're worn in the hair all day via a leave-in, a misting or a styling product of some kind.

BittSweetCherry
April 6th, 2008, 05:49 AM
Yeah, I think that's with all humectants, glycerin being a quite popular one. In Seattle they almost work too well, lol. If they're used in say, deep treatments mixed with a lot of water/watery ingredients and then rinsed, I don't think this will be a problem. It's mainly when they're worn in the hair all day via a leave-in, a misting or a styling product of some kind.

Thankyou DrkAngel and RiotCrrl, that's exactly what I wanted to know! It's also occured to me that the air is turning very dry where I am (it's Autumn) and that might be adding to the static. So thankyou, I will put off using leave-in humectants until the weather changes again.

And catnip ... I don't know whether using catnip in a house with three moggies is going to be *good* for my hair, but I'm more than willing to tape the hilarity!