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filiadeluna
April 2nd, 2008, 12:06 PM
My hair is (chemical) color treated, and the ends are very dry. The length is somewhat dry, and the roots (as they grow out) are comparatively oily. *le sigh* Please don't judge on the chemical dye thing. I considered henna or henna + indigo for awhile, but didn't want the hassle of it. I have been dyeing my hair at home since I was a teenager, and while I used to go with shades of red, I started dyeing it dark brown/black several months ago.

I only touch up the roots every 4 months or so b/c my roots hardly show. I was just going to let it grow out to my natural color, and when I get to my desired length, chop off the dyed part. However, my scalp gets very oily (and sometimes dandruffy) and my ends are dry. So in order to avoid having to wash my hair daily, I have to keep dyeing it. *ugh* I also don't want to risk further damage by stripping the hair and dyeing it back completely to my natural color (which is only about 2 shades lighter than the dye).

So I generally only use shampoo on the scalp - 2-3x a week with the CWC method (Suave Clarifying shampoo 1 of those days, Burt's Bees More Moisture another, and Christophe Purely Natural the other), and add additional leave-in conditioner or jojoba oil to the ends afterwards to help detangle. I do S&D every few months. Not sure what I'm doing wrong.

I forgot to mention that the regular conditioner I usually use is Burt’s Bees More Moisture, and the leave-in is Garnier Fructis Sleek and Shine. Not sure if those contain cones or not, but I can’t seem to find enough info on them online. I also use a V05 detangler on occasion. Do detanglers contain silicones or sulphates?

spidermom
April 2nd, 2008, 12:18 PM
You might need an all-over trim. It's so beneficial. Right off the top, I'd say don't use the clarifying shampoo unless you have buildup. It could be stimulating your oil production. Try diluting your shampoo in some warm water in a squirt bottle - like an empty shampoo or conditioner bottle. If you want to dye your hair, go ahead; no apologies necessary. But if you want to let your natural color grow out, it would seem better to me to wash a little more often than keep subjecting your scalp to dyes.

Also try different oils. My hair responds well to coconut oil and olive oil. I use them very lightly almost daily, with a heavier application when I know I'm going to wash within the next 12-24 hours.

filiadeluna
April 2nd, 2008, 12:20 PM
double post

filiadeluna
April 2nd, 2008, 12:22 PM
You might need an all-over trim. It's so beneficial. Right off the top, I'd say don't use the clarifying shampoo unless you have buildup. It could be stimulating your oil production. Try diluting your shampoo in some warm water in a squirt bottle - like an empty shampoo or conditioner bottle. If you want to dye your hair, go ahead; no apologies necessary. But if you want to let your natural color grow out, it would seem better to me to wash a little more often than keep subjecting your scalp to dyes.

Also try different oils. My hair responds well to coconut oil and olive oil. I use them very lightly almost daily, with a heavier application when I know I'm going to wash within the next 12-24 hours.

Thank you! I did the ponytail method of trimming about half an inch off a few days ago, but haven't noticed a big difference yet. Though I haven't actually even wetted my hair since Sunday b/c that's when I touched up my roots.

I've been wanting to try pure coconut oil, but the only stuff I could find was solid and sold at GNC as a supplement (and $10.99 a jar)- not necessarily intended for hair. I'm not even sure if it's pure coconut oil, but I seem to think it was. :confused:

BlndeInDisguise
April 2nd, 2008, 12:25 PM
I forgot to mention that the regular conditioner I usually use is Burtís Bees More Moisture, and the leave-in is Garnier Fructis Sleek and Shine. Not sure if those contain cones or not, but I canít seem to find enough info on them online. I also use a V05 detangler on occasion. Do detanglers contain silicones or sulphates?

Offhand I know that the conditioner that you're using has protein in it. Maybe you're hair doesn't like protein and it's drying it out.

I'm pretty sure that quite a bit of Garnier Fructis products have cones (that's not saying your hair doesn't like cones, but it could be building up). I don't know if the one that you're using has cones or not, though.

Iylivarae
April 2nd, 2008, 12:25 PM
Most detanglers and other stuff that promises to make your hair "easier to comb" contain 'cones.

You should also try to treat your hair better - even if you continue dyeing (I also dyed for several years, which isn't a reason for apologizing... there is also a group for chemically dyed hair). E.g., you should think about how you comb your hair and using the blowdryer, etc.

spidermom
April 2nd, 2008, 12:33 PM
Coconut oil will always be solid below about 75-80 degrees. Just rub it among fingertips or palms to liquify it. It's good for both cooking and hair. A $10.99 jar would last you for years probably. A pint costs about $8.49 around here (or it might be 12 ounces). I only use about 1/8-1/4 teaspoon per application.

Since you recently trimmed 1/2 inch, you probably don't need to trim more unless your ends are splitting all over the place. When that happens, there is very little point in keeping them to "save the length" because they are likely breaking off about as fast as they grow. I recently cut off 3-4 inches of nasty, dry, split all over the place ends, and it seems that my hair is growing three times as fast as before. Of course it's hard to tell since my length changes with the degree of wave/curl on a daily basis.

filiadeluna
April 2nd, 2008, 02:15 PM
Offhand I know that the conditioner that you're using has protein in it. Maybe you're hair doesn't like protein and it's drying it out.

I'm pretty sure that quite a bit of Garnier Fructis products have cones (that's not saying your hair doesn't like cones, but it could be building up). I don't know if the one that you're using has cones or not, though.

Thanks so much for the info! I'll pass them off to some friends of mine who keep their hair short anyway so they don't care about that stuff. Why toss it if they want it? I don't like to be wasteful, you know?


Most detanglers and other stuff that promises to make your hair "easier to comb" contain 'cones.

You should also try to treat your hair better - even if you continue dyeing (I also dyed for several years, which isn't a reason for apologizing... there is also a group for chemically dyed hair). E.g., you should think about how you comb your hair and using the blowdryer, etc.

Thanks for the info on the detanglers! Another thing I'll have to toss... unfortunately. I don't know why I was so delusional hoping it would be OK.

However, I am proud to say that I almost NEVER blow dry my hair (okay maybe once a YEAR if I need it to look "perfect" for a special occasion - and I only do it on the cold setting). So that's not an issue. I also use a very wide-toothed comb 99% of the time, and use a no-snag paddle brush a couple times a week in an attempt to spread the oils from my scalp through the length. I am very, very careful when combing my hair and always start from the ends.


Coconut oil will always be solid below about 75-80 degrees. Just rub it among fingertips or palms to liquify it. It's good for both cooking and hair. A $10.99 jar would last you for years probably. A pint costs about $8.49 around here (or it might be 12 ounces). I only use about 1/8-1/4 teaspoon per application.

Since you recently trimmed 1/2 inch, you probably don't need to trim more unless your ends are splitting all over the place. When that happens, there is very little point in keeping them to "save the length" because they are likely breaking off about as fast as they grow. I recently cut off 3-4 inches of nasty, dry, split all over the place ends, and it seems that my hair is growing three times as fast as before. Of course it's hard to tell since my length changes with the degree of wave/curl on a daily basis.

I will definitely pick some coconut oil up this afternoon, then. I've been wanting it for awhile, but was worried it's not the right thing. I'll double-check the label, though, before buying it.

I do have some hairs splitting a little up higher, but that's only because my hair isn't all one length anyway. The last time I had a "real haircut" (two years ago) it was layered, and the time before that it was razored *eek*. At some point I think I will do a blunt cut, but I'm only about 6"-10" away from my ultimate goal (around hip length or slightly longer), so I think I'll wait until I'm past or closer to that point to do any major cutting.

Guess I'll be in search of some absolutely cone-free stuff tonight. I see that many of the Suave conditioners are cone-free, but what about their shampoos? I like that it's so cheap. I don't mind paying for semi-expensive stuff either b/c it lasts so long anyway. As long as it smells good and is healthy for my hair, I'm fine with it.

Lastly, I forgot to mention that my hair is pretty FINE, so I would prefer to have some sort of volumizing shampoo and/or conditioner that is also "safe".

Nightshade
April 2nd, 2008, 02:25 PM
I really agree with the advice you're gotten, good stuff.

Your hair is a lot like mine was before I switched to henna, and I did find that my damaged hair HATES straight oil. I think this in part because oil likes to grab onto protein and damaged hair tends to be protein deficient. What worked for better for me than oiling was Fox's shea butter cream which is

1 part cone-free conditioner
1 part shea butter
1/2 part oil of choice (I use coconut oil for this as it helps reduce protein loss).Melt the shea and the cocconut in a warm glass bowl (don't microwave it, I put mine in a partially-filled sink of hot water), then blend in the conditioner, toss it in the freezer for a minute or two, blend, repeat until you have something that's the consistancy of frosting.

Use a pea-sized bit of that on your ends while your hair is still damp after a shower :)

And amen to diluting the shampoo. You may want to try a CWC with diluted shampoo.

Oh, and what about taking Colofix to your hair? That would pull the old dye out, and then you could just add the color back in with a toner/wash out dye. It'd lighten your hair up to your natural color without having to bleach it :)

aisling
April 2nd, 2008, 02:32 PM
Why do you feel the need to toss those detanglers? Just because of the cones? Cones aren't evil, they work great for some, bad for others and do nothing special but nothing bad either for some of us. What you do need to remember, especially when using cones, is that you might need to clarify your whole length every now and then.

About the greasy scalp, I'm going to say the same as spidermom, use less shampoo and dilute it. Washing your scalp every week with a clarifying shampoo shouldn't be necessary either. You might be cleansing your scalp too much and it reacts by producing more sebum.

Finally, about coconut oil, there's generally not any coconut oil labelled "for hair". The one used is the same you can cook with.

maskedrose
April 2nd, 2008, 02:32 PM
Fine hair does tend to be more prone to chemical damage, so it might behoove you to at least try henndigo to see if it would work for you, if you would like to keep coloring it.

Suave products are great - I use their tropical coconut conditioner for CO a couple times a week. Have you tried the CO method? My fine hair tends to get oily very fast, so the only time I can wear it down is the my wash day - otherwise I wear it up. If you like to wear your hair down more, you might want to dry COing everyday or every other day - it's less harmful than S & C, and might help with your oily root problem. Just make sure to rinse well!

filiadeluna
April 2nd, 2008, 03:22 PM
I really agree with the advice you're gotten, good stuff.

Your hair is a lot like mine was before I switched to henna, and I did find that my damaged hair HATES straight oil. I think this in part because oil likes to grab onto protein and damaged hair tends to be protein deficient. What worked for better for me than oiling was Fox's shea butter cream which is
1 part cone-free conditioner
1 part shea butter
1/2 part oil of choice (I use coconut oil for this as it helps reduce protein loss).Melt the shea and the cocconut in a warm glass bowl (don't microwave it, I put mine in a partially-filled sink of hot water), then blend in the conditioner, toss it in the freezer for a minute or two, blend, repeat until you have something that's the consistancy of frosting.

Use a pea-sized bit of that on your ends while your hair is still damp after a shower :)

And amen to diluting the shampoo. You may want to try a CWC with diluted shampoo.

Oh, and what about taking Colofix to your hair? That would pull the old dye out, and then you could just add the color back in with a toner/wash out dye. It'd lighten your hair up to your natural color without having to bleach it :)

Thanks for the recipe! Sounds fabulous!

Won't Colorfix make my hair really light? My natural hair is probably only a couple of shades lighter than what it's currently dyed (black), but it (natural color) also is more of a reddish-brown. I'm afraid that will make it too light. Is it very damaging? I'm just worried about putting anything on my ends as many times as they've been colored. Also, can I put henna in on top of that? I wouldn't want to go through that whole process just to have the "wrong" hair color again (not super close to natural color I mean). Can I use henna over it? I think I'm too paranoid to use any kind of lightening agent b/c in high school I bleached my hair blonde and it turned out somewhat orangey and made my hair like straw. Sorry for so many questions. LOL.


Why do you feel the need to toss those detanglers? Just because of the cones? Cones aren't evil, they work great for some, bad for others and do nothing special but nothing bad either for some of us. What you do need to remember, especially when using cones, is that you might need to clarify your whole length every now and then.

About the greasy scalp, I'm going to say the same as spidermom, use less shampoo and dilute it. Washing your scalp every week with a clarifying shampoo shouldn't be necessary either. You might be cleansing your scalp too much and it reacts by producing more sebum.

Finally, about coconut oil, there's generally not any coconut oil labelled "for hair". The one used is the same you can cook with.

I dunno. I guess I could keep it and just not use it *too* much or not use too many cone-containing products? I'm having a hard time figuring out a long-term "routine" to do. Good thought with the overwashing... maybe that is the problem, maybe not. I guess I'll have to experiment again.


Fine hair does tend to be more prone to chemical damage, so it might behoove you to at least try henndigo to see if it would work for you, if you would like to keep coloring it.
Suave products are great - I use their tropical coconut conditioner for CO a couple times a week. Have you tried the CO method? My fine hair tends to get oily very fast, so the only time I can wear it down is the my wash day - otherwise I wear it up. If you like to wear your hair down more, you might want to dry COing everyday or every other day - it's less harmful than S & C, and might help with your oily root problem. Just make sure to rinse well!

Thanks! I wear my hair down about 2x a week right now, but I'm at a job where I don't really care how I look. I'm starting a new job next week, though, and I need to actually look nicer and wear makeup and such, so I think I'll have to have a "nice" hair do more often regardless of whether it's down or not. I definitely can't be looking like a greaseball LOL. Now when people say COing, that's *just* on the length, right? And then you just rinse the scalp with water and/or vinegar? I've done vinegar rinses before and my hair *does* like those if it's not done daily.

Nightshade
April 2nd, 2008, 04:01 PM
Thanks for the recipe! Sounds fabulous!

Won't Colorfix make my hair really light? My natural hair is probably only a couple of shades lighter than what it's currently dyed (black), but it (natural color) also is more of a reddish-brown. I'm afraid that will make it too light. Is it very damaging? I'm just worried about putting anything on my ends as many times as they've been colored. Also, can I put henna in on top of that? I wouldn't want to go through that whole process just to have the "wrong" hair color again (not super close to natural color I mean). Can I use henna over it? I think I'm too paranoid to use any kind of lightening agent b/c in high school I bleached my hair blonde and it turned out somewhat orangey and made my hair like straw. Sorry for so many questions. LOL.

Colorfix won't actually bleach your hair, your hair color has already done that for you, then redeposited whatever color you ended up with :) All the colorfix does it take the deposited color out, leaving the already bleached hair, and then you add color closer to your natural shade back in. (I'd reccomend a wash out dye one shade lighter than your natural color, as porous previously dyed hair seems to like to suck up a bit more color than you want). I've done colorfix three times and while it made my hair stink and it was a titch dry, it didn't damage it at all. If you're utterly unsure, you can just use the first two bottles and skip the third, which is what I did :flowers:

Another way to lighten things up just a little is to mix 1 part honey and 1 part baby shampoo (it's alkaline so it helps get the dye out of your hair), apply it to wet hair for a few minutes, then rinse and condition well :)

CO is actually putting conditioner on ALL your hair and massaging the hair at the scalp. Usually two conditioners are involved, thinner one for cleaning, and then a richer one for the length. Oftentimes its a lot more gentle than shampoo, but you have to leave it on your hair longer (say like 10-15mins) before rinsing the stuff at the scalp. The nice thing is that it doesn't overstrip your hair.

filiadeluna
April 3rd, 2008, 08:47 AM
^
Thanks for sharing! I may consider it (Colorfix or a natural lightener), but I'm going to wait awhile until my roots start showing again.

Ah, okay, I didn't understand the CO thing that well. I may try that later. Last night I was at Target and found out they had a bunch of organic/sulphate-free shampoos and silicone-free conditioners that are in an aisle near the makeup (as opposed to with the "normal" hair stuff). I wondered where everyone on LHC was finding all these amazing organic products LOL. I didn't know that Target carried them. So I got to see, smell, and read the labels of the Kiss My Face, JASON, and Giovanni products. I considered getting the KMF moisturizing stuff, but it had a strong (not bad, just strong) herbal scent and I'd prefer to have a neutral or light-scented shampoo and conditioner b/c I don't want too many dif smells on my hair at once (especially with coconut oil).

I liked the JASON stuff a lot b/c it was unscented, but I went with Giovanni b/c they had $1.99 sample bottles and I wanted to try that out first. I bought one of the Giovanni invigorating green tea shampoo sample, and a set of the sample If my hair doesn't like it, I'll try the bigger bottles of sample moisturizing shampoo & conditioner.

I used the invigorating shampoo last night (diluted) and *OMG* my scalp was in HEAVEN. It tingled and felt so clean, but not to the point that it felt unnatural or anything. Smells great too. I figure I'll use that just every once in a while (maybe 1x a week or 1x a month even), and then use the moisturizing shampoo 1-2x a week. If I am still having problems with oily scalp vs. dry ends, I will wean myself off of shampoo altogether for a trial, but at least what I'll be using is sulphate free.

I also bought a nice big bottle of Suave Naturals Coconut conditioner. Smells amazing. I didn't use it last night, though, because I did a hot oil treatment before I washed. I had the hot oil just sitting around in my drawer for a couple of years, so I wanted to use it up.

So basically, I'm going for trial and error right now. I didn't want to invest in any giant bottles of shampoo until I'm sure I like/need it.

Nightshade
April 3rd, 2008, 08:56 AM
So basically, I'm going for trial and error right now. I didn't want to invest in any giant bottles of shampoo until I'm sure I like/need it.

Sounds like you've got a great plan :) I'd pick a routing and stick with it for at least two weeks before you add/change anything else to give your hair and scalp time to adjust.

Also, if your new stuff is cone-free, you may want to get any old cones off your hair with a sulphate shampoo, and then condition.

missy60
April 3rd, 2008, 11:23 AM
Ok to start I think you were already using a sulfate free shampoo with Burt's Bee and the Christophe Purely Natural. I would cut out the Suave Clarifying for a while it is very strong for color treated hair. The conditioners you were using is cone free except for the leave in it does have the A cone, which I use this leave in and rotate it and I dont get any build up from it at all. The VO5 detangle ingredient are Water (Aqua), Glycerin, Amodimethicone, PEG 12 Dimethicone, PVP, Propylene Glycol, Hydrolyzed Silk, Tocopheryl Acetate, Niacinamide, Biotin, Panthenol, Ascorbic Acid, Polysorbate 20, Cetrimonium Chloride, Trideceth 12, Cetylpyridinium Chloride, Benzophenone 4, Triethanolamine, Disodium EDTA, DMDM Hydantoin, Fragrance (Parfum). I wouldnt get rid of this just yet it is not heavily cone laden and sometimes processed hair does need cones. I am not a product guru but I would use this product and not worry about build up, but like I said I can use the A cone with out any problems.

I use the GNC coconut oil it is extra virgin organic the tub really last a long time. I use it for everything and I only have to purchase it about 2 times a year.

I have used the Colorfix before and it is really drying to your hair so be prepared to heavily moisturize it for a while, but like previously said it doesnt do any damage. Your hair can also revert back to its darker state though after using it. Sometimes you have to apply it more then once.

I think processed hair does need protein so what I do is try to use one and just do a protein treatment then follow with a moisturizing deep treatment. I try to avoid protein in my daily products so I dont get protein overload. You didnt mention doing any deep treatments which would help greatly. I would start off doing them frequently until my hair improved they also work better when heat is applied.

Isilme
April 3rd, 2008, 11:40 AM
remember that the third bottle of colorfix contains peroxide, you don't want that on your hair.
And don't use henna if you haven't researched a lot about it www.hennaforhair.com is a good place to start. Good luck!:)

filiadeluna
April 3rd, 2008, 11:44 AM
Sounds like you've got a great plan I'd pick a routing and stick with it for at least two weeks before you add/change anything else to give your hair and scalp time to adjust.

Also, if your new stuff is cone-free, you may want to get any old cones off your hair with a sulphate shampoo, and then condition.

Thanks!


Ok to start I think you were already using a sulfate free shampoo with Burt's Bee and the Christophe Purely Natural. I would cut out the Suave Clarifying for a while it is very strong for color treated hair. The conditioners you were using is cone free except for the leave in it does have the A cone, which I use this leave in and rotate it and I dont get any build up from it at all. The VO5 detangle ingredient are Water (Aqua), Glycerin, Amodimethicone, PEG 12 Dimethicone, PVP, Propylene Glycol, Hydrolyzed Silk, Tocopheryl Acetate, Niacinamide, Biotin, Panthenol, Ascorbic Acid, Polysorbate 20, Cetrimonium Chloride, Trideceth 12, Cetylpyridinium Chloride, Benzophenone 4, Triethanolamine, Disodium EDTA, DMDM Hydantoin, Fragrance (Parfum). I wouldnt get rid of this just yet it is not heavily cone laden and sometimes processed hair does need cones. I am not a product guru but I would use this product and not worry about build up, but like I said I can use the A cone with out any problems.

I use the GNC coconut oil it is extra virgin organic the tub really last a long time. I use it for everything and I only have to purchase it about 2 times a year.

I have used the Colorfix before and it is really drying to your hair so be prepared to heavily moisturize it for a while, but like previously said it doesnt do any damage. Your hair can also revert back to its darker state though after using it. Sometimes you have to apply it more then once.

I think processed hair does need protein so what I do is try to use one and just do a protein treatment then follow with a moisturizing deep treatment. I try to avoid protein in my daily products so I dont get protein overload. You didnt mention doing any deep treatments which would help greatly. I would start off doing them frequently until my hair improved they also work better when heat is applied.

Thanks for all the info. The GNC coconut oil is the exact thing I planned on buying. I saw it in the store a couple months ago, but didn't have the money to buy it at the time b/c I was already in there buying vitamins.

I think I'll still wait it out on the Colorfix. My hair looks good right now (super, super shiny after I did the hot oil treatment last night) and I want to pamper it for awhile before doing anything else to it.

Okay, so should I use a protein treatment (like the Organix stuff) maybe once a week? For the deep treatment, can you make a recommendation? Is the Queen Helene stuff in that giant jar a good one? By applying heat, do you mean warming up the product by putting the container into a bowl of hot water, or using the blow dryer? I never really use the blow dryer, but I guess if it helps with conditioning I could do it once in a while.

filiadeluna
April 3rd, 2008, 12:53 PM
remember that the third bottle of colorfix contains peroxide, you don't want that on your hair.
And don't use henna if you haven't researched a lot about it www.hennaforhair.com (http://www.hennaforhair.com) is a good place to start. Good luck!:)

Thanks! I wondered what the deal was with the 3rd bottle. I have looked at that website before, but at the time it seemed too messy, expensive, and I don't like the fact that you can't buy it in person (not here anyway). I may try it at some point... not sure though.

missy60
April 3rd, 2008, 01:38 PM
Thanks!



Thanks for all the info. The GNC coconut oil is the exact thing I planned on buying. I saw it in the store a couple months ago, but didn't have the money to buy it at the time b/c I was already in there buying vitamins.

I think I'll still wait it out on the Colorfix. My hair looks good right now (super, super shiny after I did the hot oil treatment last night) and I want to pamper it for awhile before doing anything else to it.

Okay, so should I use a protein treatment (like the Organix stuff) maybe once a week? For the deep treatment, can you make a recommendation? Is the Queen Helene stuff in that giant jar a good one? By applying heat, do you mean warming up the product by putting the container into a bowl of hot water, or using the blow dryer? I never really use the blow dryer, but I guess if it helps with conditioning I could do it once in a while.

I sort of do a protein treatment when my hair needs it I can now sort of tell when its time. Here is an excellent article that I think is good on the whole protein and moisture issue http://blackbeautyblackhair86911.yuku.com/topic/511/t/Hair-Breakage-and-Shedding-101.html. When using heat to do a deep treatment you can get a micro cap or a bonnet dryer, which I happen to have because my mom had one just sitting around in the back of her closet from back in the day. You can also heat up towels in the microwave and change them as they cool. I sometimes just get in the shower with a shower cap on and let the warm water run over my head while Im washing other body parts. I have taken a blower dryer and heated my head for a few mins to open the cuticle.

I havent used the Queen Helene stuff in ages, but I seem to remember my hair use to like it. I think I remember people talking about it having mineral oil in it though so if thats an issue for you check the ingredients. If their is a Sally's around you they have little packets that they sell of different brands of deep treatments. You could try those until you find one your hair likes. Right now for protein I use either Cat by Redkins or K-Pac. Some on here use natural protein treatments you could check a few of those out.

I color my hair and I plan to continue until I can except the grays so who knows when that might be. If you like your color and are only doing your roots I personally dont see any harm. The color fix I would only use if I decided to return to my natural hair color. I am aware that color treated hair does more care then virgin hair and at this time Im willing to baby my hair a little extra just to keep the color.

If you have layers you might want to think of a small micro trim on those to just basically dust off the dead ends it will help your over all condition alot. Just check those layer out and see what the ends look like.