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Yedda
March 23rd, 2009, 01:24 PM
Everyone, please please please help me.

Before LHC, I used coney/SLS shampoo and conditioner and my hair was fine.

Now I started the following:
[LIST]
Condition with conditioner, conditioner with molasses, or condition with molasses and coconut oil
Giving myself scalp massages with Hesh bhringraj oil-Sometimes I leave it on for a couple hours, sometimes overnight, and sometimes a couple days if I'm lazy and just put my hair in a poneytail.
Occasional SMT
Sometimes cones, sometimes not. Sometimes sls, sometimes not.My hair looks terrible! It looks like my cowlick got bigger, and my hair looks dead, limp, and oily. It looks thinner to me but my hair circumference does not show that is accurate.

I used way too much oil a couple days ago when doing a scalp massage, which may be why it looks so oily today. However, when I went to take my monthly picture earlier this month it looked almost as bad, and it wasn't right after an oil. Plus, when I put oil in my hair I shed a lot more than usual-and I can't say for sure if the oil is making me shed unnecessary hair or just hairs that would fall out on their own.

I'm going nuts!!!!Please help. I was planning on experimenting with oils, indian herbs, catnip, and cassia but now I am thinking maybe I should just stick with plain old shampoo and conditioner.

I will try to post a picture if I can get someone to take one, but believe me, it looks bad.:(

eresh
March 23rd, 2009, 01:41 PM
Maybe your hair just doesn't like the oils or doesn't really need it so it's getting an overdose?
It's a matter of testing what works for you.
If going back to shampoo/conditioner works, why not :)
You can always add a tiny bit of oil in a mister for instance, if you want to do something extra.

When I first got here I went off cones because a lot of people said it was so great for their hair.
Yep....THEIR hair ;)
My hair didn't agree with it at all and was a tangly mess, so I went back to my old cones (and sls) shampoo.
I only use shampoo/antitangle-conditioner and a few drops of oil mixed in the water of my mister to mist my hair before I braid or make an updo.
It works for me.

ratgirldjh
March 23rd, 2009, 01:43 PM
Everyone, please please please help me.

Before LHC, I used coney/SLS shampoo and conditioner and my hair was fine.


Now I started the following:
Using molasses in with my conditioner sometimes, and sometimes molasses and a little coconut oil
Giving myself scalp massages with Hesh bhringraj oil-Sometimes I leave it on for a couple hours, sometimes overnight, and sometimes a couple days if I'm lazy and just put my hair in a poneytail.
Occasional SMT
Sometimes cones, sometimes not. Sometimes sls, sometimes not.My hair looks terrible! It looks like my cowlick got bigger, and my hair looks dead, limp, and oily.

I used way too much oil a couple days ago when doing a scalp massage, which may be why it looks so oily today. However, when I went to take my monthly picture earlier this month it looked almost as bad, and it wasn't right after an oil. Plus, when I put oil in my hair I shed a lot more than usual-and I can't say for sure if the oil is making me shed unnecessary hair or just hairs that would fall out on their own.

I'm going nuts!!!!Please help. I was planning on experimenting with oils, indian herbs, catnip, and cassia but now I am thinking maybe I should just stick with plain old shampoo and conditioner.

I will try to post a picture if I can get someone to take one, but believe me, it looks bad.:(

i'm sorry. this actually happened to me when i first joined! i started trying too many new things - too quickly - and ended up with breaking, dry, unmanageable hair - until i stopped doing anything new. maybe you should go back to your previous method and see what results you get or try CO? CO immediately stopped my hair breaking and although it was not a good method long term for me... but it may be good for you. just stop doing stuff to your hair for a few days - it will get better!

Silverlox
March 23rd, 2009, 02:01 PM
As one fellow Finehair to another... :flower:

Our hair is fragile and sensitive. It's also very prone to becoming limp. This is a fact of life that cannot be changed. While many members get great result from all kinds of hair care remedies, some of us have less adventurous hair.

There can be three reasons why you are experiencing adverse results.

1. This method/remedy is simply not for you and won't work with your hair. Skip it and go on to other things.

2. Many of the changes we make in haircare need a period of adjustment before we can really tell whether they are working or not. Perhaps your hair is still in the process of adapting. Unless it damages your hair, stick with it for at least a month to make sure.

3. Making too many changes and trying too much new stuff at the same time is not a Good Thing(tm)! Step back for a while. First you need to establish a baseline that you know works. For you that would probably be to revert to your old methods.

Once your hair is again stabilised, try out only one thing at the time. If the result is disastrous move on immediately. If not, try you new "thing" for one month, without making any other changes. Analyse the results.
Then you decide whether this is a keeper or not.

After you have done this, and provided your hair is okay, you can try the next thing on your list.

As tempting as it is to try everything at once, don't do it!! Also, you'll never know which one worked and which one didn't.

This is the exact reason for keeping a journal/blog. To apply one change, document it for the duration and see what works.

Yes, all these new and exiting methods can make your head spin. So much to try and so little time.. The only way to achieve a good result is to be methodical. As boring as that may seem, it will pay off in the end.

Whenever you see a new and interesting thing you want to try out, please first check out the hairtype of the person advocating it!! The closer to your own, the greater the chance it might work for you. Some methods you can disregard without even trying, as they will never work for your particular hairtype!

Find hair twins. Look at what they do to their hair. Chances are, it might be good for you too. No guarantees though, we all have hair with "personality". Sometimes our hair just refuses to cooperate even though the method "should" be good for it.

What might not be self evident at a forum like this, the fact is that many of us are still using the old methods like store bought shampoos and conditioners with sulphates and cones. We just don't write thread about it, because everybody knows how to.

If it aint broken, don't fix it!

Good luck in finding the Holy Hair Care Grail. :D

Yedda
March 23rd, 2009, 02:07 PM
Thanks for everyone's input. I've added a link in my original post so you can see a picture.

LutraLutra
March 23rd, 2009, 02:09 PM
Yup, everything that Silverlox said. :D As another finehair there are things I've tried that make me look like a greaseball - CO washes (yuck!) and jojoba oil (eeew, skanky stringy hair!). It's all trial and error, isn't it. If your hair like a regular 'poo and condition with regular products then that's great. Wash and be happy. :)

ratgirldjh
March 23rd, 2009, 02:11 PM
As one fellow Finehair to another... :flower:

Our hair is fragile and sensitive. It's also very prone to becoming limp. This is a fact of life that cannot be changed. While many members get great result from all kinds of hair care remedies, some of us have less adventurous hair.

There can be three reasons why you are experiencing adverse results.

1. This method/remedy is simply not for you and won't work with your hair. Skip it and go on to other things.

2. Many of the changes we make in haircare need a period of adjustment before we can really tell whether they are working or not. Perhaps your hair is still in the process of adapting. Unless it damages your hair, stick with it for at least a month to make sure.

3. Making too many changes and trying too much new stuff at the same time is not a Good Thing(tm)! Step back for a while. First you need to establish a baseline that you know works. For you that would probably be to revert to your old methods.

Once your hair is again stabilised, try out only one thing at the time. If the result is disastrous move on immediately. If not, try you new "thing" for one month, without making any other changes. Analyse the results.
Then you decide whether this is a keeper or not.

After you have done this, and provided your hair is okay, you can try the next thing on your list.

As tempting as it is to try everything at once, don't do it!! Also, you'll never know which one worked and which one didn't.

This is the exact reason for keeping a journal/blog. To apply one change, document it for the duration and see what works.

Yes, all these new and exiting methods can make your head spin. So much to try and so little time.. The only way to achieve a good result is to be methodical. As boring as that may seem, it will pay off in the end.

Whenever you see a new and interesting thing you want to try out, please first check out the hairtype of the person advocating it!! The closer to your own, the greater the chance it might work for you. Some methods you can disregard without even trying, as they will never work for your particular hairtype!

Find hair twins. Look at what they do to their hair. Chances are, it might be good for you too. No guarantees though, we all have hair with "personality". Sometimes our hair just refuses to cooperate even though the method "should" be good for it.

What might not be self evident at a forum like this, the fact is that many of us are still using the old methods like store bought shampoos and conditioners with sulphates and cones. We just don't write thread about it, because everybody knows how to.

If it aint broken, don't fix it!

Good luck in finding the Holy Hair Care Grail. :D

what good advice! thanks! i need to follow this as well :)

amaiaisabella
March 23rd, 2009, 02:12 PM
I definitely agree with the previous posters. What will work for one member might not work for another. I know I tried many different methods when I first joined, and even things that worked for other fineys didn't work for me, and vice versa.

If you think shampoo is too harsh, try diluting it. If you don't mix it up in a bottle previously, just pour a little into your hand (I used to use about 2 quarter-size amounts of shampoo, now I take a quarter-size) and let the shower water run into your hand to dilute it, and then run it through your hair.

Whatever method you end up finding that works, stick with it! Sometimes, it's just easier to read about other people's success with methods, than actually trying them out :)

Anje
March 23rd, 2009, 02:15 PM
I agree with the others -- it looks like your hair's just getting a bit limp and that not all the oil is coming out. Feel free to really shampoo it to get it lighter and fluffy, and I think you'll be a lot happier about it. Lots of LHCers stick to normal shampoo and conditioner, or modify it a bit by diluting the shampoo and concentrating it on the scalp.

Some people do notice that things look worse when they drop the cones for the simple reason that the existing damage shows more, but that doesn't seem like it's your problem.

Silverlox
March 23rd, 2009, 02:16 PM
Just saw your hair picture. In my eyes it looks very over conditioned. Unless your hair has a big dryness issue, skip all that moisturising, for two reasons.

1. As a straightie, you probably don't need a lot of moisturising so it will do more harm than good.

2. Fine hair is rarely very porous, unless harmed by perms, chemical dyes and other harsh stuff. It simply cannot "drink up" all the moisture you're throwing at it.

My best advice is this:

Skip all the exciting new stuff and try one of the most efficient of all methods - Benign Neglect.

Your hair isn't very long yet, this means it's not old and fragile and does not need all this stuff. Just be kind to it and it will grow long. Trying too hard is not always a good thing.

Disclaimer: As usual this is my personal point of view. Please feel completely free to ignore should it not suit you. ;)

spidermom
March 23rd, 2009, 02:16 PM
If I were you, I'd go back to the last routine that made you happy with your hair.

I've experimented with quite a few things since I've been here (3+ years) but have settled on CWC with diluted shampoo. That's all it takes to make my hair look and feel fabulous most of the time. Oh, and sometimes I like a nice coney smoothing serum; it makes the tangles almost fall out by themselves. I make it a point to keep oil and conditioner off my scalp. I produce plenty of sebum; no need for extra oil.

More important than what I do to my hair from the outside is what I do for it on the inside - a good, healthy diet, plenty of water, rest, exercise. No amount of administering treatments to your scalp will make up for lacks in those vital areas.

CopperHead
March 23rd, 2009, 02:18 PM
I always end up going back to my tried and true products and my hair loves it. The all natural route just doesn't work for me and I have finally decided to just use what works and forget the rest. Luckily, I have a neice that uses the products that don't work for me. My SIL uses them too. ;) Hempz is still the best product I have ever used and I just ordered two more spray leave-in detanglers from Ebay. I buy all of my Hempz there. :)

burns_erin
March 23rd, 2009, 02:25 PM
As another straight fine haired person. I thought i would throw in my two cents.

I got off sulfate shampoos and I dilute. But I DEFINTELY still have to use shampoos or soap on my scalp. My prefered method is to condition the length, use a sprayer bottle of diluted shampoo to spray my scalp. I do let the shampoo run down my ends sometimes. And sometimes I repeat the wash cycle. Then I condition the whole thing, but I use very light conditioners. I also clarify with very strong (Herbal essences degunkify) once a month before henna. I only oil once a week and that is usually on Fridays and I do keep it on all weekend. I do not prefer jojoba or cocnut for this, but found grapeseed oil works great for me.

If I find I need more moisture, I use plain old vegetable glycerine like a serum on my towel dried hair. It is still good for my hair but not nearly as weighty as oil, and it is water soulble (at least for the most part) so it does not require so much to get it out like oiling does.

It does take time and experimentation to find out what works best for your hair. Browse around and see if you can find people with hair as close to yours as you can to get an idea of what works for them. No gurantees their method will work for you, but probably a better chance than say, for you, to try to use the same method as a 4c/C/iii.

Good luck and keep at it, eventually it will pay off.

Yedda
March 23rd, 2009, 02:33 PM
Thank you all. I am leaning towards going back to shampoo/conditioner only for a while.

The only reason I am hesitant to do this is because I'm reading articles about different indian hair oils and products making hair thicker and darker, two things that I desperately want:(

Aisha25
March 23rd, 2009, 02:40 PM
But that mainly has to do with indian type hair that is already dark and just needs some reassurence that the hairs doesnt fade or get sun bleached. Hope you understand:flower:

Fethenwen
March 23rd, 2009, 02:55 PM
Oh, this is sorta what I have been going through. I've used quite a lot of methods in just a few weeks, and I ended up with dry/oily/static hair.

But I have noticed that if I use ACV after every wash makes it behave better, and also that as a very fine haired person I really should be careful with the oils :P it is really hard to get it clean with just natural methods.

morningstar
March 23rd, 2009, 02:59 PM
Ok this is what I think: :D Your hair is fine. My hair is fine. If you put too much on it and I think that is what you are doing, it will be greasy and piecey. Wash with a clarifying poo and use a vinegar rinse. Go back to what works. Many people here use many different things in their hair. It is ok too if you have a special need. My little daughters have dry hair that soaks up the jojoba oil. If I was to use it like that my hair would be gunky.

Hair care can be simple or it can be more complex. If you can use the simple methods good for you and only try something if you think there is a need. Your hair looks very healthy from your siggy. :flower:

Yedda
March 23rd, 2009, 03:14 PM
But that mainly has to do with indian type hair that is already dark and just needs some reassurence that the hairs doesnt fade or get sun bleached. Hope you understand:flower:
Hmm...I thought Indian hair was generally fine to medium, close to caucasian hair. Maybe I'm wrong...? And my hair is pretty dark naturally as you can see in my siggy pic, but no, I'm not a raven. I would like to get my hair back to that color, and I do have a problem with fading/sun. I wasn't expecting it to be jet black from using the products. Maybe I will give it a break as my hair probably is finer and thinner than typical indian hair. Thanks for the tip:)

I think all of you guys are right. I'm going to give everything a break for a little while. Might ask for more advice when I feel like I should try something new...

Hypnotica
March 23rd, 2009, 03:20 PM
Ow, my hair would look very oily on that "diet"!

I would suggest that you keep you conditioner the lightest kind possible and maybe follow up with a dab of coconut oil on the very ends on damp hair. You may also try catnip, which have been reported to work great with F hair (I'm currently trying it out - so far so good!)

I fnd that my hair loves moisture, but mainly in pure water form. I mist it with water before bed time, add a smudge of oil to it and then braid it.

Oh, and SLS? Good stuff. I'm prone to build-up and gets that from everything, including non-SLS schampoos.

lora410
March 23rd, 2009, 03:24 PM
I think you are doing to much. I follow a simple regimen of wash acv and light oil every few days (sometimes some condish on wash days). Also on wash days I do a heavy oiling. When I used coney things or washed daily my hair got really limp, strings and yukky.

gmdiaz
March 23rd, 2009, 03:30 PM
I really like the idea of using a journal. . .maybe start there if you aren't already keeping a formal record of all the things you're trying or would like to try.

I'd start simple. . .go back to what works.

rose_in_bloom
March 23rd, 2009, 03:31 PM
Sorry you're having trouble, lenac. :( It's pretty discouraging when you're trying to do the best you possibly can for your hair and it ends up looking even worse. This is exactly what happened to me when I first came here, and it was not fun! When I was younger I had hip-length hair that I shampooed and conditioned (with SLS and cones) every single day and it was in great condition. When I first started taking care of it about a year ago it was shoulder length and looked terrible. I over-oiled, didn't wash enough, and obsessed over it constantly until the stress of caring for it made it look even worse. And I thought I was being so kind to my hair. :rolleyes: Oh well. Now I'm back to washing every other day and using regular sulfate shampoo (although I do try to only use it once or twice a week and CO the rest of the time). I also have cones in some of my conditioners. My hair is back to looking great, and I'm much happier with it. I just use a little bit of coconut oil when my hair feels dry.

So I'd recommend the whole benign neglect thing. It seems to work well for fine-haired people.

I hope you find a routine that you like soon! :)

Hope this helps.

gmdiaz
March 23rd, 2009, 03:33 PM
And I would focus on this down time. . .by playing with new hairstyles that baby your hair, neat up-dos or new hair toys.

I think, I'll start a journal, myself, today. I can see myself, going overboard trying too many things. :whistle:

gmdiaz
March 23rd, 2009, 03:36 PM
And I wonder, is there a way to search for all the people who have your exact hair type?

It might be the best way to begin, looking at your hair's care with fresh eyes?

Yedda
March 23rd, 2009, 03:37 PM
Ow, my hair would look very oily on that "diet"!

I would suggest that you keep you conditioner the lightest kind possible and maybe follow up with a dab of coconut oil on the very ends on damp hair. You may also try catnip, which have been reported to work great with F hair (I'm currently trying it out - so far so good!)

I fnd that my hair loves moisture, but mainly in pure water form. I mist it with water before bed time, add a smudge of oil to it and then braid it.

Oh, and SLS? Good stuff. I'm prone to build-up and gets that from everything, including non-SLS schampoos.

Ok, I do feel a little silly now. I guess it does not make sense to use oil regularly, on hair that is already oily on it's own. I guess I was just hoping for a miracle with my bhringraj oil, to make my hair thicker and maybe darker too. And on top, I put coconut oil in my conditioner sometimes. Just too much oil!

So, I'm going to cut out on everything right now except S/C. I might start using the bhringraj oil again sometime once my hair has settled down, but maybe if I start again I will use it on my scalp only, not on the length?
If I recall (It is very possible I read it wrong), Ktani did post an article that Eclipta alba may be more beneficial than minoxidil in hair growth. From what I've gathered, (bhringraj oil) may be more beneficial than using monistat for hair growth.

Either way I will take a benign neglect approach like everyone suggested, at least for now. If I use anything else right now I will probably give up on trying new things forever.

Hypnotica
March 23rd, 2009, 03:49 PM
Ok, I do feel a little silly now. I guess it does not make sense to use oil regularly, on hair that is already oily on it's own. I guess I was just hoping for a miracle with my bhringraj oil, to make my hair thicker and maybe darker too. And on top, I put coconut oil in my conditioner sometimes. Just too much oil!

So, I'm going to cut out on everything right now except S/C. I might start using the bhringraj oil again sometime once my hair has settled down, but maybe if I start again I will use it on my scalp only, not on the length?
If I recall (It is very possible I read it wrong), Ktani did post an article that Eclipta alba may be more beneficial than minoxidil in hair growth. From what I've gathered, (bhringraj oil) may be more beneficial than using monistat for hair growth.

Either way I will take a benign neglect approach like everyone suggested, at least for now. If I use anything else right now I will probably give up on trying new things forever.

You could do the oil as a pre-wash treatment for your scalp if you use SLS.
And we all hope for miracles :)

But there is advantage points to being a F :D We seldom need to do much treatments as we tend to be sleek and shiney naturally :) And that "thin" feeling will go away. When you start to accumulate some lenght, the hair will hang so much better and look fuller.

You can always experiment with non-conditioner for a start.

Gutterfayrie
March 23rd, 2009, 03:55 PM
I SC and my hair has never been happier. I tried doing CO and my hair was a HUGE mess. Now my routine is to shampoo the scalp only, rinse, then condition from the ears down only. Some days I'll put coconut oil on the ends. Every once and awhile (maybe every 3 weeks?) I'll do a heavy oiling. Oh, and I wash it every 2-3 days (I'd go longer but DH won't let me :rolleyes:)

Good Luck! Just remember that not all things work for everyone!

WritingPrincess
March 23rd, 2009, 03:55 PM
As one fellow Finehair to another... :flower:

Our hair is fragile and sensitive. It's also very prone to becoming limp. This is a fact of life that cannot be changed. While many members get great result from all kinds of hair care remedies, some of us have less adventurous hair.

There can be three reasons why you are experiencing adverse results.

1. This method/remedy is simply not for you and won't work with your hair. Skip it and go on to other things.

2. Many of the changes we make in haircare need a period of adjustment before we can really tell whether they are working or not. Perhaps your hair is still in the process of adapting. Unless it damages your hair, stick with it for at least a month to make sure.

3. Making too many changes and trying too much new stuff at the same time is not a Good Thing(tm)! Step back for a while. First you need to establish a baseline that you know works. For you that would probably be to revert to your old methods.

Once your hair is again stabilised, try out only one thing at the time. If the result is disastrous move on immediately. If not, try you new "thing" for one month, without making any other changes. Analyse the results.
Then you decide whether this is a keeper or not.

After you have done this, and provided your hair is okay, you can try the next thing on your list.

As tempting as it is to try everything at once, don't do it!! Also, you'll never know which one worked and which one didn't.

This is the exact reason for keeping a journal/blog. To apply one change, document it for the duration and see what works.

Yes, all these new and exiting methods can make your head spin. So much to try and so little time.. The only way to achieve a good result is to be methodical. As boring as that may seem, it will pay off in the end.

Whenever you see a new and interesting thing you want to try out, please first check out the hairtype of the person advocating it!! The closer to your own, the greater the chance it might work for you. Some methods you can disregard without even trying, as they will never work for your particular hairtype!

Find hair twins. Look at what they do to their hair. Chances are, it might be good for you too. No guarantees though, we all have hair with "personality". Sometimes our hair just refuses to cooperate even though the method "should" be good for it.

What might not be self evident at a forum like this, the fact is that many of us are still using the old methods like store bought shampoos and conditioners with sulphates and cones. We just don't write thread about it, because everybody knows how to.

If it aint broken, don't fix it!

Good luck in finding the Holy Hair Care Grail. :D

What she said. I use regular shampoo and conditioner, often going with whatever's cheapest. Once in awhile I mix it up and do a CO wash or a BS/ACV wash, or I use my shampoo bar and rinse with ACV, but for the day in and day out washes, I CWC every other day. Other than oiling, fancy updos, and switching to a comb, my routine is about the same as pre-LHC. Try one thing at a time, waiting a week or two before trying something else. Keep a blog. Take pictures. But don't obsess too badly over your hair, and if plain ol' S/C works best, then please don't feel guilty.

DragonLady
March 23rd, 2009, 04:52 PM
I'll be the lone dissenter with my very dry straight hair. I do still use both shampoo and conditioner, but have found that a weekly SMT treatment really helps keep my ends from becoming crunchy and just snapping off. I'm discovering that commercial conditioners do help moisturize, but when I combine honey with them the benefits seem to double.

I do think you're doing too much at once, though. I was tempted when I first came here because I'd been trying to grow for so long without results. So I wanted to see changes yesterday. Now, 9 months later I've still only tried a handful of extra things, and am careful to write about it in my blog here. It does help to be able to go back and see what I had to say about the days I skipped shampoo or added something extra; but only if I only changed one thing. If I've changed two or more (which I still do sometimes), I don't know for sure which to praise (or blame).

Honey39
March 23rd, 2009, 05:35 PM
The thing that really helped me most here was to look at what people with MY hair type did, and that tends to work by far the best. What works for fine haired, straight haired, sleek haired people isn't going to work for my mop! I would look for people whose hair seemed kind of similar in length/type and who reported things working, and then try what worked for them.

That's how I found that CO-washing, leave-in conditioners, no brushing, damp oiling and daily washing tends to bring out the curl and bounce the best. I would be lost if I followed someone who dry oiled at night and then brushed it in with a BBB, or too much shampooing etc!

Your hair looks very pretty, it's a lovely colour - and honestly, I think as other posters have said, less is definitely more! It's exciting at first, and even now I periodically think - ooh, catnip rinses, soapnuts, henna etc etc!!! lol. But try to get in a simple, easy routine and then gradually tweak and experiment.

rags
March 23rd, 2009, 05:40 PM
Well, I'm almost your hair twin (mine's not as thick as yours) and I did exactly the same thing when starting here, and looked just about like your picture too!
I second the idea of one thing at a time. You'll figure out what works eventually. I found out, for example, that 1a/F/i absolutely baby fine hair does not need heavy EVOO oilings. Nope. It will not look good. Trust me on this one. Now pre SLS shampooing oilings - they're great.
I can't tell you how helpful it's been to find a couple of hair twins (and one who's almost one!). They can really help you.

Good luck!

Elenna
March 23rd, 2009, 05:45 PM
Well, fine hair needs to be clean and not over oiled or conditioned. Maybe you need to shampoo your hair. Some things work and others don't.

Once you've found your hair cleaning/care routine it's a matter of fine tuning it.

plainjanegirl
March 23rd, 2009, 06:40 PM
Maybe your hair just doesn't like the oils or doesn't really need it so it's getting an overdose?
It's a matter of testing what works for you.
If going back to shampoo/conditioner works, why not :)
You can always add a tiny bit of oil in a mister for instance, if you want to do something extra.

When I first got here I went off cones because a lot of people said it was so great for their hair.
Yep....THEIR hair ;)
My hair didn't agree with it at all and was a tangly mess, so I went back to my old cones (and sls) shampoo.
I only use shampoo/antitangle-conditioner and a few drops of oil mixed in the water of my mister to mist my hair before I braid or make an updo.
It works for me.


What kind of oil do you use in a mister? Do you mix it with anything? Anytime I have tried putting oil in a mister the oil clogs it up.

Jeep Girl
March 23rd, 2009, 06:49 PM
All the previous advice is right - step back, take a deep breath, go back to your old routine then try changing only one thing at a time. I went through the same thing when I started here and my hair ended up awful. Heavy oilings, no shampoo, no 'cones, you name it. My hair ended up a dry greasy tangly mess. I have had good luck with Fox's Shea Butter Conditioning Cream recipe - exchanging jojoba oil for the coconut oil, as an overnight leave-in. I think us fine haired types have a bit more difficulty finding things that work for our hair.

Elphie
March 23rd, 2009, 08:14 PM
Echoing the good advice given already about taking things slow. It's already my nature to take things one step at a time, so I didn't wind up doing too many things at once. The only additional advice I can offer is when you do try something new...be complete about it. Did it work well when your hair was wet? When it was dry? Should you use more or less? There are so many different ways you can try just one thing that it might help you slow things down and still feel like you are trying something new.

Jeni
March 23rd, 2009, 09:38 PM
Ok, I do feel a little silly now. I guess it does not make sense to use oil regularly, on hair that is already oily on it's own. I guess I was just hoping for a miracle with my bhringraj oil, to make my hair thicker and maybe darker too. And on top, I put coconut oil in my conditioner sometimes. Just too much oil!

So, I'm going to cut out on everything right now except S/C. I might start using the bhringraj oil again sometime once my hair has settled down, but maybe if I start again I will use it on my scalp only, not on the length?
If I recall (It is very possible I read it wrong), Ktani did post an article that Eclipta alba may be more beneficial than minoxidil in hair growth. From what I've gathered, (bhringraj oil) may be more beneficial than using monistat for hair growth.

Either way I will take a benign neglect approach like everyone suggested, at least for now. If I use anything else right now I will probably give up on trying new things forever.

Eh, don’t feel bad, I did the same thing when I started here. Everyone seemed to be using oils and loving them so I jumped on the band wagon. My hair is already oily and pretty limp, oiling did nothing but make it look even flatter and oiler. At about the same time I also stopped using SLS and cones and tried to extend my washes, my hair looked awful and my scalp was not at all happy. CO was an even bigger disaster.

My hair likes to be washed everyday (every other day if I’m not going anywhere) with shampoo and my dyed damaged ends need and love cones. I’m currently using dairy whip as my shampoo with great results (it may or may not have SLS in it) but I was previously using SLS shampoos and my hair and scalp were just fine. I still use oils (EVOO and coconut) but only in an SMT and my cassia mixes.

If your hair was happy with your old S and C then by all means use it! If your ends feel dry maybe try CWC (this has worked very well for me).

SpecialKitty
March 23rd, 2009, 10:56 PM
What kind of oil do you use in a mister? Do you mix it with anything? Anytime I have tried putting oil in a mister the oil clogs it up.

When I use a mister, I just fill it with diluted water, or water from the tap that has been set out for a few hours to allow the chlorine to dissipate. Then I add maybe 30 drops of jojoba oil, rose oil or any other essential or base oils, and shake it up before misting. I've never had a clogging problem. I think the key is to not add too much oil. I believe that there are a few articles or recipes on the old forum that have ratios of water to oil for misting.......I'll try to check and link to them in a bit.

SpecialKitty
March 23rd, 2009, 11:01 PM
Oh, and lenac, I can't say enough about having hair twins! This is the key to finding a routine that works.

Also, simplicity is often the best course of action for hair care.

And finally, learn to love your hair the way it is, rather than wanting to change it somehow. Your hair is not damaged, and is still fairly short. It will grow healthy and strong with good nourishment and taking good care of yourself inside and out. In my opinion, using special oils or products to increase hair growth and thickness is expensive and high-maintenance. And chances are, unless you've lost a lot of hair for some reason, they won't really work for you.

I am looking forward to seeing pics of your hair in a couple of weeks - let us know how it's going!

Helen Baq
March 24th, 2009, 01:50 AM
When I was in HS there was not internet, so I relied on whatever information and advice I could find - sometimes from magazines, sometimes other people, etc. A lot of my hair care was experimental, which lead to a lot of gloppy, oily messes! :p My hair was pretty oily back then, so I think I shampooed about every other day.

When I had oily hair I just let it go dirty here and there, tied it up, wrapped a scarf around it, and let it get oily all on it's own. Then I'd comb it and brush the oil through really well. When I washed it it'd be shiny and soft and nice. There's no better conditioner than your hair's own oils. You don't have to do it very often, just whenever you feel your hair could use a little extra conditioning. I only add a little evoo now and then nowadays because my hair isn't oily anymore and it's long enough that it would be difficult to work sebum all the way through it, even if it did get oily.

templeofvenus
March 24th, 2009, 03:27 AM
Hi

I have fine hair and I use shampoo and conditioner My hair gets very greasy quick so I shampoo most days but just rub shampoo in the crown area and let suds run over the rest, if you like regular shampoo and conditioner then use it, what works for one person doesn't always work for another I think its trial and error for each individual :)

DecafJane
March 24th, 2009, 03:34 AM
I have gone back to using coney shampoo and conditioner (Redken Allsoft) and my hair loves it. :)

Katze
March 24th, 2009, 05:27 AM
Thank you all. I am leaning towards going back to shampoo/conditioner only for a while.

The only reason I am hesitant to do this is because I'm reading articles about different indian hair oils and products making hair thicker and darker, two things that I desperately want:(

Great advice so far. I also agree that you are overoiling and trying too much at one time. If S&C worked for you, why not try the same thing without 'cones for a while, then slowly add another thing if that doesn't work.

Remember oils and other Indian hair care products are generally not designed for fine hair. When I first started on natural hair care, I did so on the advice of an African-American friend with dreads...and her results were VERY different from mine. I always looked with longing at Indian hair oils and products, but after this experience (and many, many overoilings) I started realizing that my hair was "different" in its fineness.

The thickness and darkness of your hair, like the thickness, waviness, and blondeness of mine (I want thick, blonde curls!), are genetically determined. Apart from dye, there's nothing we can do to make our hair be something other than it is.

I've been through what you're going through and I generally needed to clarify or deeply shampoo (sulfates), or oil and condition less. It took me a couple of years to figure out what my hair needed, but I was dealing with two different textures, layers, and damage.

Hope you find a simple routine that makes your hair look better!

dearladydisdain
March 24th, 2009, 06:22 AM
You just need to find what works for you. I did the experimenting thing for a loooong time and I am now back to my old shampoo & conditioner routine.

Elbereth
March 24th, 2009, 06:46 AM
I have fine hair, and in general, it seems that my hair is happy with very little when it comes to products. This is against pretty much everything I had previously learned: salon industry tells us that every hair issue can be solved by using the right product. But products are just part of long hair care.

As my hair has grown, I have learned that styling my hair right is just as important as using products it likes. If I wear my hair down too much (which isn't much at all by general standards), it will split, break and get worse very quickly. The solution to prevent that splitting and breaking is not finding a product that would fix the problem but wearing my hair in a way it likes: up with hair friendly hairtoys.

You mentioned that you would like your hair to be thicker and not fade in the sun. You can address both of these issues without any products. If you handle your hair gently (no brushing, no heat tools, gentle combing, hair friendly hairtoys, wearing updos), it will break and damage less, and that could show as slightly increased thickness, or at least as improved horizontal volume along the length.
As previous posters have noted, you can effect thickness only a little because it is genetically determined. If your scalp produces fine ii hair, it is impossible to make it produce coarse iii hair. What you can do, is to make the best of what you have.

If you want to avoid damage from sun and other elements, you can wear a headcovering. Even a simple little triangle bandana will do wonders to protect your hair from the effects of sunlight, wind and dust. I am typically out many hours a day during summer months, but because I wear headcoverings, the color of my hair doesn't change at all during the summer, nor does my hair become dry and damaged from sun exposure.

Yedda
March 25th, 2009, 01:42 AM
I have fine hair, and in general, it seems that my hair is happy with very little when it comes to products. This is against pretty much everything I had previously learned: salon industry tells us that every hair issue can be solved by using the right product. But products are just part of long hair care.

As my hair has grown, I have learned that styling my hair right is just as important as using products it likes. If I wear my hair down too much (which isn't much at all by general standards), it will split, break and get worse very quickly. The solution to prevent that splitting and breaking is not finding a product that would fix the problem but wearing my hair in a way it likes: up with hair friendly hairtoys.

You mentioned that you would like your hair to be thicker and not fade in the sun. You can address both of these issues without any products. If you handle your hair gently (no brushing, no heat tools, gentle combing, hair friendly hairtoys, wearing updos), it will break and damage less, and that could show as slightly increased thickness, or at least as improved horizontal volume along the length.
As previous posters have noted, you can effect thickness only a little because it is genetically determined. If your scalp produces fine ii hair, it is impossible to make it produce coarse iii hair. What you can do, is to make the best of what you have.

If you want to avoid damage from sun and other elements, you can wear a headcovering. Even a simple little triangle bandana will do wonders to protect your hair from the effects of sunlight, wind and dust. I am typically out many hours a day during summer months, but because I wear headcoverings, the color of my hair doesn't change at all during the summer, nor does my hair become dry and damaged from sun exposure.

Elbereth, thanks for the reminder that caring for my hair, the way I style and wear it, can also effect thickness and sun-fade. I think you are right, I should focus on this first, and trying different treatments second.

Thanks everyone for sharing your experiences and advice. I feel MUCH better, and have been able to put everything in perspective after reading all the replies to my thread. I was so frustrated I could have cried. I actually might have, I can't remember. (LOL)

By the way, I washed my hair yesterday with SLS shampoo two times, and I did not use conditioner and my hair is looking a lot better today. Thanks to those who shared that tip, that SLS shampoo will remove oil better than other sulphates/ingredients. I washed two times with non-SLS shampoos and the oil was still there after a couple days, and finally the SLS shampoo did the trick. My hair looked a lot better today, check out my last "progress pic". Still not happy with my hair but A LOT happier than yesterday, and I'm thankful for that!:D

rhubarbarin
March 25th, 2009, 08:33 AM
Everyone else said it all-

I had the same issues. I went a little crazy the first 6 months to a year I was a member here.. I did CO washing, lots of oiling, lots of natural conditioners, SLS-free shampoos and soaps, and anything containg SLS, plastics, cones, chemicals was evil! My hair looked pretty bad. Lank, greasy no matter what I did, and greasiness makes my hair frizzy.

I've since started using SLS shampoo again, and not using so much oil/conditioner so frequently, and my hair looks great.

mellie
March 25th, 2009, 08:51 AM
Oiling is not for everyone. I don't like it at all! :-)

If plain old shampoo & conditioner works for you, stick with it! You are lovely!!! :flowers:

joyfulmom4
March 25th, 2009, 09:34 AM
Amazing how many of us have had similar experiences after joining here. :p

When I found LHC, I was so excited to try the great new ideas and products I read about. But like so many others, I tried too many things at once and had disappointing results.

Therefore, I agree with the advice others have given. Go back to your original routine. If you're happy with it, stick with it. If you wish to try some new things, go slowly, only one product at a time. And take your time as you decide if it's good for your hair. Look for folks with similar hair types b/c their routines/products are more likely to match your hair. Also, remember that factors such as water type (hard or soft water, types of minerals in water supply) will also impact how products perform.

Best of luck to you.

heidi w.
March 25th, 2009, 10:52 AM
My first thought is about that scalp massaging with oil. I am not sure why you do this. Are you experiencing a benefit? If the oil you use has Tea Tree Oil in it, beware: too much apparently can cause some hair loss. We have had a number of members here report that their hair shedding increased with the use of too much Tea Tree Oil.

My opinion is that Oil that will remain on the hair should only go on the hair length, that is, from approximately the earlobes and below. You appear to have straight hair in your picture, so you probably do not need it much higher than that. I suggest that you allow your sebum to be the protective coating on the hair closely associated with the scalp skin.

Another thought. You seem to be waffling around really fast between hair washing methods. I would strongly urge you to slow down, and make one singular change at a time, try it out for around 2 weeks and see how it goes, and then make a decision if it’s working or not. Yes, there are some things that you’ll know right away this is a no-go, but if you change too many things at one time, it takes longer to nail down your routine because you can’t decisively know what is the culprit of a problem if changing many things at once. For example, CO washing, as I understand it’s done here on LHC, takes nearly 2 months for things to actually work reliably every hair wash. There’s an adjustment the scalp skin needs to make, and it needs time to acclimate to this routine.

I also recommend you find a person on this site who has hair rather similar to yours, and see about matching their routine. It helps a lot to work on hair washing systems within the context of people who have the hair type you have. If you try, by way of example, a very, very curly person’s corkscrew hair type method(s), it may be too much moisture or conditioner for your hair type--your straight, fine hair. This could account for that lanky look of your hair, whereas, on this corkscrew type hair the methods produce great results. And you wonder what went wrong….

Instead of massaging your scalp with an oil, just try only massaging the scalp. The benefits of scalp massaging is to encourage blood flow to the hair follicles. If you want, use a fine-toothed comb and kind of scratch the scalp skin. I recommend this specific technique prior to a given hair wash to help lift and loosen debris and produce better cleanliness of the scalp skin when washing the hair. Remember, washing hair is about cleaning the skin of the scalp more than cleaning the hair length. Thus the phrase “washing hair” is a bit of a misnomer.

I think you might also benefit from understanding what the ACID MANTLE is. This is your scalp skin’s pH balance. The balance is achieved, fundamentally, between sebum and sweat. All human skin has this need (actually, other animals do too – just in differing areas of the pH scale). If your washing and oiling methods upset the balance, you can have some troubles.

But my biggest singular thought is that you do not need to be applying oil to hair closely associated to the scalp skin. The sebum production will take care of this area just fine, I expect. (There are cases of people who have very dry skin or skin problems at the scalp skin, but you don’t appear to have any of these issues.) I would not leave oil on scalp skin and closely associated hair any longer than say, overnight, if interested in doing a deep oil treatment prior to a hair wash. Otherwise you’re mixing oil and sebum. Sebum is NOT oil: it is a waxy ester that provides a protective coating to the skin and closely associated hair to catch dirt, grime, product and such and prevent it from getting into the hair follicles themselves. It also produces a bit of sheen on the closely associated hair to the scalp skin.

I am betting your scalp skin doesn’t need all this attention. I recommend returning to your usual shampoo/condition routine, adding oil to the length only, trying that for a while to get all stabilized, and then tweak one thing at a time. Try one product at a time. And find a hair twin!

heidi w.
http://www.celibre.com/sksacid.aspx
ACID MANTLE & pH explained a bit

joyfulmom4
March 25th, 2009, 10:57 AM
I have gone back to using coney shampoo and conditioner (Redken Allsoft) and my hair loves it. :)

I love the Redken Allsoft products too. I used to use them when I could afford them. They're rather pricey though. An alternative that seems to work similarly for my hair is the Tresemme Anti-breakage formula. Those seem to be good for my hair, which does like cones.

plainjanegirl
March 25th, 2009, 11:13 AM
I love the Redken Allsoft products too. I used to use them when I could afford them. They're rather pricey though. An alternative that seems to work similarly for my hair is the Tresemme Anti-breakage formula. Those seem to be good for my hair, which does like cones.



Hmmm I may have to try that Tresemme sometime. I cannot afford salon brands so I use drugstore brands.

plainjanegirl
March 25th, 2009, 11:16 AM
My first thought is about that scalp massaging with oil. I am not sure why you do this. Are you experiencing a benefit? If the oil you use has Tea Tree Oil in it, beware: too much apparently can cause some hair loss. We have had a number of members here report that their hair shedding increased with the use of too much Tea Tree Oil.

My opinion is that Oil that will remain on the hair should only go on the hair length, that is, from approximately the earlobes and below. You appear to have straight hair in your picture, so you probably do not need it much higher than that. I suggest that you allow your sebum to be the protective coating on the hair closely associated with the scalp skin.

Another thought. You seem to be waffling around really fast between hair washing methods. I would strongly urge you to slow down, and make one singular change at a time, try it out for around 2 weeks and see how it goes, and then make a decision if it’s working or not. Yes, there are some things that you’ll know right away this is a no-go, but if you change too many things at one time, it takes longer to nail down your routine because you can’t decisively know what is the culprit of a problem if changing many things at once. For example, CO washing, as I understand it’s done here on LHC, takes nearly 2 months for things to actually work reliably every hair wash. There’s an adjustment the scalp skin needs to make, and it needs time to acclimate to this routine.

I also recommend you find a person on this site who has hair rather similar to yours, and see about matching their routine. It helps a lot to work on hair washing systems within the context of people who have the hair type you have. If you try, by way of example, a very, very curly person’s corkscrew hair type method(s), it may be too much moisture or conditioner for your hair type--your straight, fine hair. This could account for that lanky look of your hair, whereas, on this corkscrew type hair the methods produce great results. And you wonder what went wrong….

Instead of massaging your scalp with an oil, just try only massaging the scalp. The benefits of scalp massaging is to encourage blood flow to the hair follicles. If you want, use a fine-toothed comb and kind of scratch the scalp skin. I recommend this specific technique prior to a given hair wash to help lift and loosen debris and produce better cleanliness of the scalp skin when washing the hair. Remember, washing hair is about cleaning the skin of the scalp more than cleaning the hair length. Thus the phrase “washing hair” is a bit of a misnomer.

I think you might also benefit from understanding what the ACID MANTLE is. This is your scalp skin’s pH balance. The balance is achieved, fundamentally, between sebum and sweat. All human skin has this need (actually, other animals do too – just in differing areas of the pH scale). If your washing and oiling methods upset the balance, you can have some troubles.

But my biggest singular thought is that you do not need to be applying oil to hair closely associated to the scalp skin. The sebum production will take care of this area just fine, I expect. (There are cases of people who have very dry skin or skin problems at the scalp skin, but you don’t appear to have any of these issues.) I would not leave oil on scalp skin and closely associated hair any longer than say, overnight, if interested in doing a deep oil treatment prior to a hair wash. Otherwise you’re mixing oil and sebum. Sebum is NOT oil: it is a waxy ester that provides a protective coating to the skin and closely associated hair to catch dirt, grime, product and such and prevent it from getting into the hair follicles themselves. It also produces a bit of sheen on the closely associated hair to the scalp skin.

I am betting your scalp skin doesn’t need all this attention. I recommend returning to your usual shampoo/condition routine, adding oil to the length only, trying that for a while to get all stabilized, and then tweak one thing at a time. Try one product at a time. And find a hair twin!

heidi w.
http://www.celibre.com/sksacid.aspx
ACID MANTLE & pH explained a bit


wow I did not know that some people have experienced hair loss from oiling on the scalp. I have recently purchased some oils and have been oiling my scalp ( mainly the area at the back where I have had hair loss) cause i thought alot of different oils were good for encouraging growth. Now maybe it was not such a good idea. I will definately have to watch closely.

Darkhorse1
March 25th, 2009, 11:24 AM
I have this theory that if it 'ain't broke, don't fix it'. Go back to what your hair liked. I still use regular shampoos and cone conditioners. I have learned other valuable things here, and my hair is doing great. But, I know what I need, and using non SLS shampoos and conditioners sans cones made my hair greasy at the roots and dry at the ends.

I am always willing to try something, but oiling my scalp would never be one of them because I have such greasy hair to begin with. I just oil the ends, then clarify. Perhaps get a clarifying shampoo to remove the excess stuff and return to your regular routine. :)

LaurelSpring
March 25th, 2009, 11:57 AM
I also did the try everything routine with some successes and some disasters. After a year now I am just ready to simplify and get back to basics. I have been guilty of oiling too much and I needed to stop that. I did find out that cones were not helpful and made my hair coated and greasy and Im not fond of shampoo bars. Right now I just want a nice cone and SLS free easy to find, not too expensive shampoo and conditioner. I do keep an SLS on the side for clarifying but I have found that SLS does really dry out my scalp and hair.

I am definately ready for the K.I.S.S. plan.

ShaSha
March 25th, 2009, 02:18 PM
I'm another of those that have tried a lot of things since joining here. :D

But so far it looks good.

Before joining here I had major problems, tried many things, then quit shampoos, conditioners. That made all the difference.

So when I joined here I was a few months without any shampoo or cond and looking for new things.

Since then I've reshearched all kinds of hair cleaning and conditioning methods. So in the past few months I've used soapnuts, vinegar, salt, amla, shikakai, a ready made herb mix (and some other things). And my hair is looking better than ever.

The ends are dry sometimes, and I have used shea butter for that. In my fine and thin hair it's easy to use too much, and that is a learning process. :) But the occasional sheabuttering is the only "oil" I use.

heidi w.
March 25th, 2009, 03:28 PM
wow I did not know that some people have experienced hair loss from oiling on the scalp. I have recently purchased some oils and have been oiling my scalp ( mainly the area at the back where I have had hair loss) cause i thought alot of different oils were good for encouraging growth. Now maybe it was not such a good idea. I will definately have to watch closely.

from oiling with TEA TREE OIL -- some have reported experiencing an increase in hair loss with this specific oil.

Tea Tree Oil is a strong astringent oil.

heidi w.

heidi w.
March 25th, 2009, 03:32 PM
The ends are dry sometimes, and I have used shea butter for that. In my fine and thin hair it's easy to use too much, and that is a learning process. :) But the occasional sheabuttering is the only "oil" I use.

Shea Butter can be a viable alternative to oil.

I know some who also use cholesterol (ethnic hair care aisle).

Most inexperienced with oiling and butters and the like do tend to use too much initially. As stated, it's a learning process.

heidi w.

WritingPrincess
March 28th, 2009, 01:22 PM
Shea Butter can be a viable alternative to oil.

I know some who also use cholesterol (ethnic hair care aisle).

Most inexperienced with oiling and butters and the like do tend to use too much initially. As stated, it's a learning process.

heidi w.

You mean I wasn't the only one? The first time I oiled my hair, it looked wet. It felt oily, and I had to shampoo the length to get it out. It took a few tries to realize that I'm only supposed to use a few drops, not a tablespoon! :lol:

tina1025
March 28th, 2009, 02:16 PM
Lenac, I am very sorry to hear what your going through. I was suffering from a hairloss so i know how frustrating it is to see limp and oily hair.

I have very thin, oily and fine hair. Every time i oil my hair, i loose tons of hair so i have stopped oiling my hair. If you really need to or have to oil your hair i would suggest using only one or two drops.

IMO, conditioner makes your hair feel very thin and lifeless. For that reason i dont use conditioner at all.

I have been using soapnuts to wash my hair since Dec or January. With soapnuts i dont need to use any conditioner, or any hair rinse or anything else. Soapnuts helps with the fullness of the hair and conditions your hair as well and helps with the hair loss.

I know you have tired so many products but with soapnuts you dont need to use anything else. I know it wont do any harm to your hair.


Here are some of the links that will help you....

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=95

http://www.buysoapnuts.com/hair-loss.html

http://soapnuts.wordpress.com/2008/10/22/hair-loss-and-how-soap-nuts-can-help/