Celtic Knot vs. KarenLynn's double-looped knot

[ElenTikvah]

I've been perusing the updo threads, and watched videos for both the Celtic Knot (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POe9Bs5yNGE)and KarenLynn's double-looped knot (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v438/KarenLynn/Updos/?action=view&current=double-loopedknot2_0001.flv).

Now, in the Style Instructions post linked in the Very Important Threads sticky, these are listed as different updos. BUT they look like they are styled the same...so I'm confused.

If they are actually different, I'd appreciate some kind soul to help me see the difference in styling.

TIA!

~Tik

[Juneii]

wow, good question, I think the only difference is that KarenLynn sticks the hair stick through the second loop and the Celtic Knot had only the side of the second loop speared?

[Silverlox]

You made me curious, so I watched both videos.:eye:

As far as I can tell, although it's a bit hard due to hands obscuring the view, the main difference is where the loop that is pulled through the first loop ends up.

In the KarenLynn's Knot it ends up being the top right loop = where the stick enters the bun.

In the Celtic Knot it ends up being the top left loop = where the stick exits the bun.

Right and left in this case if from the viewer's point of view.

Thus the difference is basically that although both start the same way, the pulled-through-loop of the one knot is a mirror wise version of the pulled-through-loop of the other one.

Have I succeeded in completely confusing everybody yet? :silly:

[HairColoredHair]

No, not confused yet... if that's the case then one or the other would work 'better' depending on which way you twist your hair... or at least look different?

[ElenTikvah]

You made me curious, so I watched both videos.:eye:

As far as I can tell, although it's a bit hard due to hands obscuring the view, the main difference is where the loop that is pulled through the first loop ends up.

In the KarenLynn's Knot it ends up being the top right loop = where the stick enters the bun.

In the Celtic Knot it ends up being the top left loop = where the stick exits the bun.

Right and left in this case if from the viewer's point of view.

Thus the difference is basically that although both start the same way, the pulled-through-loop of the one knot is a mirror wise version of the pulled-through-loop of the other one.

Have I succeeded in completely confusing everybody yet? :silly:

Ah-ha! THANK YOU! I see it now! :)

~Tik

[Silverlox]

No, not confused yet... if that's the case then one or the other would work 'better' depending on which way you twist your hair... or at least look different?

Perhaps one or the other might work better with different types/lengths/thickness of hair, I don't know, because I didn't try them out, just watched the videos.

They don't look different, because they all have as an end result three loops, placed the same way and look identical. At least on these people, who do not have much taper = all loop are pretty much the same size and thickness.

I think that if someone with strong taper and fairytail ends tried to do them, the third loop (= the one pulled through) will be decidedly smaller and thinner and thus you'd be able to see the difference more clearly. :flower:

[Silverlox]

Ah-ha! THANK YOU! I see it now! :)

~Tik

You're welcome! :D

If it's any consolation, I had to watch each video three times to make sure. First one, then the other. Repeat. Start typing my reply. Repeat again. I detected it on the second viewing, but had to watch again to make sure I weren't imagining it, before I posted.. :p

[ElenTikvah]

Perhaps one or the other might work better with different types/lengths/thickness of hair, I don't know, because I didn't try them out, just watched the videos.

They don't look different, because they all have as an end result three loops, placed the same way and look identical. At least on these people, who do not have much taper = all loop are pretty much the same size and thickness.

I think that if someone with strong taper and fairytail ends tried to do them, the third loop (= the one pulled through) will be decidedly smaller and thinner and thus you'd be able to see the difference more clearly. :flower:

Actually looking at it more closely now, I think that they really do look different...

The Celtic Knot has the wrap coming out from the head and smoothly to the right (viewer's perspective)

KarenLynn's Double-Looped Knot is the mirror, with the smooth flow to the left.

They both have three loops, but the placement of the original wrap changes the orientation of the coils in the final updo.

From these two examples, the Celtic Knot seems to give the impression of a smoother, more flowing updo, imo.

~Tik

[AnnaMarie]

Thanks for the link, what a great channel! :)

[Kerri]

I always used both names, the double-looped knot and the celtic knot (or celtic bun) as synonyms. I think they are the same.

Both buns are the equivalent of a slip knot in crocheting. The only difference is where you pin down the loop you pulled through the initial loop. If you would pin down the loop on the top and inserted the stick upright (which I tend to do sometimes (http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv158/Kerrikin/Senza%20Limiti/sl-norsi-keltischer-knoten.jpg)), what would be the name of that bun? Is it justifiable to give this style a third name? And if you pinned the loop to the bottom? Fourth name? Just to push this to its extreme: You can do the left handed version (i.e. when doing the first loop, letting the hair hang down to the right, not the left) and pin the loop that was pulled through to the left side, right side, top or bottom - 4 more names for basically the same thing? You can even do more variations like starting off the first loop with the hair above your hand, not underneath your hand like in the videos, and build an upside down version. That would give 8 more names, 4 for the right handed version, 4 for the left handed. That yields 16 names in total for slight variations of the same bun, if I didn't miscount.

That's why both are the same to me. Everything else would tremendously confuse me :o

- Kerri.

[Monchhichi]

My suggestion concerning terminology: ;)

For a rather long time I wondered why the Celtic knot is called Celtic. Then I suddenly realised that you can pin it down in a way that it looks like I triskel! So that's the reason why it's called Celtic.

If it doesn't look like a triskel I would use another name.

[Anje]

I consider them the same thing. In a rope, both would be described as an overhand knot with a draw loop (that is, the ends aren't pulled through the knot). Compare it to the KarenLynn knot, which is a figure-8 knot.

[KarenLynn]

They're both the same style. The only difference is through which loop the stick entered and exited.

[Kimberly]

Thank you everyone for posting here -- finally, the mystery is solved! :)