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Dorothy
March 4th, 2009, 06:59 PM
I have been talking to Akiko about Japanese hairstyles, tools, and ornaments and learned a lot. I thought some other people might be interested too. So my current question is this: I bought a kanoko, which is a long piece of silk decorated in a shibori pattern, sewn into a tube. Here's a picture of a bunch of different colors of them:
http://i672.photobucket.com/albums/vv88/DorothyatKansas/tn-kanoko-13.jpg
and I want to do a momoware or split peach hairstyle, a style worn by Maiko, here is a picture:
http://i672.photobucket.com/albums/vv88/DorothyatKansas/maruware.jpg
I was thinking it was like a sock bun with an opening at the back to show the kanoko. This hairstyle is supposed to be suggestive..... anyway, I put my hair in a pony, rolled my kanoko into a circle, and pinned the ends together. I put it on my ponytail, put my hair down over it, put another elastic around the outside....and it is just a mess. For one thing, it stands out from my head, not flat against it like the lady in the picture. And also, the kanoko does not stay neatly rolled, it pops out in different places. I am wondering if this hairstyle is even made with kanoko, or maybe I need to get some shibori fabric (silk fabric tie dyed in a special way, so you get little white spots where you tied it up, and usually left with the bumpy texture resulting from drying tied up) and make myself a larger round bun form.
Please feel free to use this thread to discuss other asian hairstyles. I have two more questions, for example: is the chinese bun something women really do with their hair in china, and is the japanese bun something women really do with their hair in Japan? or is it like french fries?

Roseate
March 4th, 2009, 07:19 PM
I can't help, but I have another question about Japanese hair accessories.

I was in Daiso this weekend and in the hair section they had many different colors of elastic in long straight peices, about 2 feet long. They looked like hair elastics, but super long and not in a circle. Anyone know how these are supposed to be used?

I can imagine several possibilities, but I was curious about how folks in Japan really use them.

Akiko
March 4th, 2009, 09:38 PM
I have been talking to Akiko about Japanese hairstyles, tools, and ornaments and learned a lot. I thought some other people might be interested too. So my current question is this: I bought a kanoko, which is a long piece of silk decorated in a shibori pattern, sewn into a tube. Here's a picture of a bunch of different colors of them:
http://i672.photobucket.com/albums/vv88/DorothyatKansas/tn-kanoko-13.jpg
and I want to do a momoware or split peach hairstyle, a style worn by Maiko, here is a picture:
http://i672.photobucket.com/albums/vv88/DorothyatKansas/maruware.jpg
I was thinking it was like a sock bun with an opening at the back to show the kanoko. This hairstyle is supposed to be suggestive..... anyway, I put my hair in a pony, rolled my kanoko into a circle, and pinned the ends together. I put it on my ponytail, put my hair down over it, put another elastic around the outside....and it is just a mess. For one thing, it stands out from my head, not flat against it like the lady in the picture. And also, the kanoko does not stay neatly rolled, it pops out in different places. I am wondering if this hairstyle is even made with kanoko, or maybe I need to get some shibori fabric (silk fabric tie dyed in a special way, so you get little white spots where you tied it up, and usually left with the bumpy texture resulting from drying tied up) and make myself a larger round bun form.
Please feel free to use this thread to discuss other asian hairstyles. I have two more questions, for example: is the chinese bun something women really do with their hair in china, and is the japanese bun something women really do with their hair in Japan? or is it like french fries?

I think the kanoko used in momoware might be thicker than what you have.

In order to prepare hair for this type of traditional hairstyle, BIN TSUKE ABURA is applied to hair. It is a mixture of Japan wax (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_wax) and oil. It is rather hard. So when it is applied, you can mold and shape hair like you see. Without it, I don't think you can make the shape of BIN (sides) or MAGE (top).

Usally in order to shape that MAGE, KETABO (hair stuffing. My ketabo is made of synthetic fiber. It's in my updo album. Check chestnut bun.) , SOE (looks like hair extension) as well SHAGOMA (animal hair, light-weight) is added. Shaped with BIN TSUKE ABURA, then secured with several paper strips. I have not seen how exactly MOMOWARE is done. But I don't think Kanoko is necessarily holding hair in place.

Maybe someone else can answer how to do in non-traditional way. It may not be totally authentic, but might be satisfactory to enjoy.

And about Japanese bun... I have never seen any Japanese wearing a Japanese bun in 25 years of my life in Japan. I have never seen it in books, magazine, or on Japanese hairstyle websites. It's only on English hairstyle websites.:D


I can't help, but I have another question about Japanese hair accessories.

I was in Daiso this weekend and in the hair section they had many different colors of elastic in long straight peices, about 2 feet long. They looked like hair elastics, but super long and not in a circle. Anyone know how these are supposed to be used?

I can imagine several possibilities, but I was curious about how folks in Japan really use them.

Daiso! Love the store.... Tends to buy too many things there.

We use that long elastic for hair. Cut it to the length you want. Simply tie and make a loop. Use the loop just like regular hair elastics. The knot tends to eat hair, though. But elasticity of that long one is excellent. Better than regular loopy elastics.

Roseate
March 4th, 2009, 09:55 PM
Thank you Akiko! That momoware style looks very complex. Now I know what the elastic is for, I have one more excuse to buy things at Daiso. They also had some little lunchbox-sized chopsticks that would be very good for hair...

Akiko
March 4th, 2009, 10:04 PM
Thank you Akiko! That momoware style looks very complex. Now I know what the elastic is for, I have one more excuse to buy things at Daiso. They also had some little lunchbox-sized chopsticks that would be very good for hair...

Watch out! Daiso is a dangerous place.:cheese: They have too many great deals!

Calanthe
March 4th, 2009, 11:57 PM
I did a cheater's Mage for a party recently. Only the Mage, I don't have enough hair for an entire momoware :rolleyes:. I sectioned off a small part of my hair in front and made a smallish quiff-like thingie, than put up all hair in a normal ponytail. I used a pretty sockbun base (an old pair of leggings) and pulled the tail through. Then I parted the ponytail and put the tails to the left and right and put an elastic around the sockbun base like you would for a sock bun. I then braided the tails and wrapped them around the whole thing. I put a small Flexi 8 in the middle of the "mage" and decorated the rest with a few pretty haircombs.

It's certainly not the original but it looks surprisingly good.

Oh, and I did the whole thing with slightly damp hair, loads of Aloe Gel and a few licks of Lush Goth Juice in order to keep the style nice and flat.

Dorothy
March 5th, 2009, 10:14 PM
I just ordered a new shibori obiage from the ichiroya Kimono Flea Market http://www.antiqueichiroya.com/index.php . It was $18 plus 9 in postage, and I think what I will do is make part of it into a large donut.
I've heard about the oil/wax business, and I think I would rather avoid that, I want to fake it, or fake some aproximation of it. If anyone is interested in kimonos, this flea market is a pretty nice place to get them. They don't have my size (sigh) but I got a lovely haori jacket for my mother in burgandy shibori, with a design of maple leaves floating down the stream. She is a weaver/dyer/strip quilter/etc. in her hobbies, and is interested in textiles from all over the world. Shibori is such a labor intensive dye technique, I think the haori only cost me $80 or so, and she loved it. They are reliable, their pictures show all flaws in vintage kimonos clearly, and they take paypal. FYI.

So, Akiko, what can I do with this kanoko? I thought of wrapping it around an already finished "chinese" or "japanese" bun. I have some books that have incredibly complex pictures of japanese hairstyles, some with kanoko, but I don't think I can pull any of this off!
http://i672.photobucket.com/albums/vv88/DorothyatKansas/kanokojapanesehairstyles.jpg

Akiko
March 6th, 2009, 07:37 AM
Japanese tend to be small. Especially older generations were tiny! So second hand kimonos are usually too small even for me. Especially sleeves are too short.

Maybe you can make a sock bun doughnut and cover it with a piece from kanoko obiage. Then make a sock bun like Calanthe said.

Now I remember Celticfreefall has tutorials of how to fake momoware hairstyle on her blog (http://celticfreefall.livejournal.com/151634.html). There was a thread (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=19102&highlight=geisha&page=2) about geisha hairstyle. The link (http://www.immortalgeisha.com/index.html) Celticfall introduced has lots of info in English. You might know it already, though.

Also you might make a momoware-mage separately. I saw this MAGE set (http://store.shopping.yahoo.co.jp/hesaka/amy810021.html). It's for a girl. So the size is too small for adults. But a large momoware-like mage piece can be made, I think.

The extremely complex hairstyle was worn by Kyoto Shimabara Tayuu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oiran). You can see more pictures on
flickr (http://www.flickr.com/search/?s=int&q=oiran&m=text). I don't know how to do that crazy hairstyle, though! Mage looks like pita bread cut in half. It looks as though someone put as many hairtoys as possible in hair!

Woot! I just found out there is a makeover studio (http://www.henshin-maiko.com/system.html) to become Maiko/Geiko/Oiran in Harajuku, downtown Tokyo. If I don't get a chance to go to Kyoto for a makeover, I definitely have to go there. Sorry there is no English page at that site. But if anyone wants to try and have a chance to go to Tokyo, this might be a fun thing to do!

Kebbster
March 6th, 2009, 07:55 AM
Im going to Japan in a few weeks, am very excited to see a geisha mainly so I can see one of these elaborate hairstyles in person......also hoping to pick up some new hairtoys :cheese:

Akiko
March 6th, 2009, 07:59 AM
Exciting! Where in Japan are you going, Kebbster? I hope you enjoy. I am planning to visit my mom in Tokyo this summer. Maybe I will go to Kyoto with my family. There are several hairtoy stores I definitely have to go!

Kebbster
March 6th, 2009, 08:07 AM
Where arent we going? haha.

Well sort of, its a big place. Its a bit of a whirlwind tour so not seeing everything as well as I normally would travelling, but will get to all the things Im really keen to see.

Were going to Tokyo, Hakone, Nagoya, Hiroshima and Kyoto. Most of the time will be in Tokyo, but I have faith I should be able to get some snazzy hair toys in Kyoto even if knowwhere else.

I can't wait, Ive never been to Japan, it sounds so exotic and exciting.

Akiko
March 6th, 2009, 08:17 AM
You are going everywhere! There are lots of hairtoy stores in Kyoto. "Jyu-san Ya" (http://www.kyoto-shijo.or.jp/shop/zyusanya.html) on Shijo Street (http://www.kyoto-shijo.or.jp/english.html) is a very famous boxwood comb/kanzashi store. If you have a chance, it is a place worth visiting. You might be going there with a tour group and are not able to freely go around. But just a thought.

Jyu-san Ya has another store in Ueno/Asakusa (http://www.guidenet.jp/shop/206t/#shopinfo) in Tokyo. It's closed on Sundays. But open at 10:00-18:30.

These links are only available in Japanese. But if you are interested, someone should be able to help locate these stores.

Kebbster
March 7th, 2009, 08:25 AM
Ooh thankyou, am drooling just looking at the pictures, have to come home with something. That Kyoto street shouldnt be too hard to find by the looks. Am not on a tour, doesnt feel like an adventure if im being led by the hand. Plus, control freak me likes everything my way.

Im a bit overwhelmed looking at the Tokyo map, no doubt my other half could find it for me, but it looks as if stuff will be available.

Akiko
March 7th, 2009, 11:40 AM
Kyoto should be easier to navigate. It's a relatively small city. My husband took a trip to Kyoto by himself and was able to navigate. He knows only a few Japanese phrases. He does not read Japanese.

Tokyo is a different story. I was born and raised in Tokyo. But every time I go back, there are some new subway lines, new stores, new everything! I need a map and guide book. :D Enjoy your trip!

Dorothy
March 7th, 2009, 03:24 PM
Thank you so much, Akiko, for all those beautiful links! I had not seen those tutorials or instructions, I was "shooting from the hip" as we say here in the midwest. I am definately going to try the instructions this weekend and see what I come up with. I think I can make some ball style hairties with some round bakelite buttons I have and some elastic. I think I have just enough hair to work it. I'm not going to put all those products on my hair, I think I'll try using slightly naturally oily hair to begin with and maybe some aloe vera gel. I am so excited. Thank you so much for those links and all the beautiful pictures! I have learned more about Japanese hairstyling in just a few days here than in all my years of struggle to find books in english to read. If I pull this off I will take a picture.

Akiko
March 7th, 2009, 07:23 PM
You are welcome, Dorothy. I will be looking forward to your picture. It's hard to find info on traditional Japanese stylings in Japanese, not to mention in English. But there are some people who are interested and provide some good info. I would love to see how you make hairties, too!

I am not an expert on this subject. But I can google search in Japanese any time. If you need info, let me know any time. Maybe I can dig out something. I would like to learn more about Japanese styles, too!

Denebi
March 8th, 2009, 04:00 AM
Hi there!

A while ago, I tried to do something similar to the Maiko hair style. This is what I managed to do:
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_tY1hGv3U2vU/SKHatufdfAI/AAAAAAAAA4I/d0cE8HoVs40/s400/Maiko1.JPG

I wrapped a scarf around something like that (don't know how it is called):
http://dynimage.basler-haarkosmetik.de/DE/out/1/html/0/dyn_images/1/0044490_05_L_01_DE.jpg

Then made a sock bun, showing parts of the scarf. The sticks do not hold anything, they are just decoration.

Hmm, and I would like to have some Japanese style decoration for it :)

Dorothy
March 8th, 2009, 08:02 PM
I tried the Momoware with all the instructions Akiko posted plus my own modifications. I did not start with wet hair, I started with 3 day dirty hair, scritched and massaged and preened like the sebum only folks do. I think this provided some smoothness - which smoothness is not readily apparent, but it's better than it could be. I sprayed with rosewater and used aloe vera gel to gain some control over the situation. I did use the cardboard rolls to wrap my top bun, and then threaded the kanoko I already have through those. That was a lot easier than I thought it would be, which is not to say it was easy. Now I want some tsunami Kanzashi, a desire I've never before had. It is laborious, but following one step after another it works pretty good. Used about 8 pony tail holders and 4 bobby pins, all of that stays in the do. The decorations, of course, have no structural significance at all, and indeed have to be anchored in the pony tail holders under the bun part in order to stay in. This was really fun. I haven't taken it out yet, and I don't think that will be much fun. Thank you, Akiko, for making this all possible!

http://i672.photobucket.com/albums/vv88/DorothyatKansas/Picture36.jpg
http://i672.photobucket.com/albums/vv88/DorothyatKansas/Picture9.jpg
http://i672.photobucket.com/albums/vv88/DorothyatKansas/Picture50.jpg

Dorothy
March 10th, 2009, 09:34 PM
So, when I took it out, it was not as bad as I anticipated. Since all the hair sections were small, I use these small "break away" hair elastics I had, they're supposed to last forever but a strong pull will separate the ends, and they're cheap, so disposable. I just broke them all, let it all fall down, and gently combed it w/my bakelite comb from the bottom, then CWC'd. I think I need a lot of practice to get this smoother, but I'm fairly happy w/this first attempt.

Aditi
March 11th, 2009, 05:25 AM
Denebi and Dorothy that is really a nice hairstyle good job.

countryhopper
March 9th, 2010, 05:37 AM
This is an old thread, but I just had to say, WOW! great job! This looks awesome!