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Áine
March 31st, 2008, 02:19 PM
So I had another "Holy Moly" moment the other day. I wasn't sure if it was worth sharing, but I figured that's exactly what I said about the original Monistat thread and look how that one turned out.

Anyhow, I had been developing my hobby in perfumed hair misters, and blending them with essential oils. My favorite has been the one made with cinnamon oil, simply because it smells sweet, smell lasts forever, and you only need a little bit to get a lot of bang.

After a while, with the cinnamon mister, my hair began to feel a little crunchy, not dried out but just stiff (I think I had been overzealous in my use of the mister, I admit). I switched to just putting ground cinnamon in my conditioner to get the same smell. It rinsed out well, and left a wonderful aroma, I was happy.

Well, let's just say that two and a half months later, my very dark brown hair is looking quite a bit more "golden" these days. People keep pointing out how I have "dyed my hair". And of course I haven't. But it certainly has jumped 3 or 4 shades lighter. I have nothing else in which to attribute the change in color, I haven't changed my routine. I use the same water, I use all my same products, I am very sure it was the cinnamon that did it.

Sure enough, when I googled "cinnamon+hair+lighten", lo and behold, there are other beauty websites that have already dallied with this. *Slapping my forehead* And here I was thinking, "Oh look at this new thing I'm doing to fragrance my hair"... and all this time, people were doing it to naturally bleach their hair.

So, I guess if anybody is looking for an alternative way to bleach his/her hair color gradually, this might be an option besides industrial peroxide.

GlassEyes
March 31st, 2008, 02:23 PM
Hehehehehe. Sounds easier than honey lightening. And I love the smell of cinnamon. <3

Neat. xD

Elainehali
March 31st, 2008, 02:25 PM
Ohhh that sounds like fun. Where did you get cinnamin oil? Should I look at a health food place, or online?

Áine
March 31st, 2008, 02:33 PM
GlassEyes, LOL, I do suppose that might be true, just trying to control honey enough so that you can manipulate it in the hair, I can imagine the hilarity that may ensue if I ever tried it myself.

Elaine, I get many of my oils at iHerb.com (http://www.iherb.com/ProductsList.aspx?c=1&cid=2142&gclid=COyU85-LuJICFRwsagodSDOOSw) , I use the cinnamon bark oil, not the cinnamon leaf oil.

ReadingRenee
March 31st, 2008, 02:58 PM
wow that is interesting. I wonder what about it would lighten hair? *off to do some googling*

Áine
March 31st, 2008, 03:03 PM
^ I also wonder about that myself. Please do share what you are able to come across!

SHELIAANN1969
March 31st, 2008, 03:08 PM
WOW, thats funny, because cinnamon is a cassia plant.

ReadingRenee
March 31st, 2008, 03:09 PM
Yes thats exactly what I just found out according to Wikipedia. It says all cinnamon sold in US stores is actually Cassia? Also that it is a light golden yellow color. the essential oil in it. Wikipedia has lots of interesting information about cinnamon that I never knew. Maybe if it is a cassia plant, that would explain it?

Islandgrrl
March 31st, 2008, 03:18 PM
Hmmm.... I wonder how that would work with henna and if you could just do highlights with it.... ??

ktani
March 31st, 2008, 03:26 PM
Cinnamon has a pretty good peroxide value = content.
http://books.google.ca/books?id=KZa8aPxR_-wC&pg=PA322&lpg=PA322&dq=cinnamon+pov&source=web&ots=pjIeAfr5-Z&sig=OMZG-eBpqhAP5xevko2Ot2tkeW4&hl=en

MeMyselfandI
March 31st, 2008, 03:26 PM
WOW, thats funny, because cinnamon is a cassia plant.

Henna Sooq mentioned that she used cassia obovata and honey to lighten some of the henna build up in the honey thread. Cinnamon is not the same plant. They are in the same family of plant, I would assume they would have some similar properties.

Big question, is that a permanet lighting process or does it get darker again once you stop using the cinnamon?

Ekaini - Thanks for the link.

I wonder if the other high values would give the same effect? Nutmeg anybody?

Isilme
March 31st, 2008, 03:35 PM
cassia obovata and cinnamon Cinnamomum verum is not the same plant, and they have very different uses.

ktani
March 31st, 2008, 03:35 PM
I believe that is a different cassia that Henna Souq used - cassia senna.

Isilme - we posted at the same time, lol

The “other“cassia - the one sold as cinnamon
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassia)

Wavelength
March 31st, 2008, 03:37 PM
Maybe that's why the OP never noticed any lightening with the cinnamon oil in the mister, only when she switched to ground cinnamon -- because they were actually from two different plants?

Either way, this is really interesting! I'm going to keep an eye on this thread.

MeMyselfandI
March 31st, 2008, 03:43 PM
cassia obovata and cinnamon Cinnamomum verum is not the same plant, and they have very different uses.

Very true,

I did not add that in my post, I will.

WritingPrincess
March 31st, 2008, 03:46 PM
Cassia cinnamon (our favorite kind) is not cinnamon at all, but an entirely different plant.

Áine
March 31st, 2008, 03:48 PM
Big question, is that a permanet lighting process or does it get darker again once you stop using the cinnamon?

Interesting question. I would have to believe that this is permanent, my ends have gotten fairly translucent (still brownish colored, but more see-through), and they were not that way before.



The “other“cassia - the one sold as cinnamon
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassia)

Aha, so cinnamon is in the Henna/Cassia family, eh? So I would imagine it has color depositing qualities as well as bleaching tendencies? I've got to read more on this!


Maybe that's why the OP never noticed any lightening with the cinnamon oil in the mister, only when she switched to ground cinnamon -- because they were actually from two different plants?

You are right, I didn't notice any lightening with the oil, but I swore that I bought the cinnamon bark oil, not the cinnamon leaf oil. I am at work right now, so I can't check the label. It may have been the crucial error in all of this. But either way, it sure smelled strongly of cinnamon.

Wavelength
March 31st, 2008, 04:00 PM
You are right, I didn't notice any lightening with the oil, but I swore that I bought the cinnamon bark oil, not the cinnamon leaf oil. I am at work right now, so I can't check the label. It may have been the crucial error in all of this. But either way, it sure smelled strongly of cinnamon.

That wasn't quite what I meant, although that could also explain it. What I meant was, if the cinnamon oil in your mister was from the plant Cinnamomum verum (a.k.a. "true cinnamon") and the ground cinnamon was actually Cinnamomum aromaticum, or C. cassia (a.k.a. the stuff that's commonly sold in the U.S. and Canada but isn't actually true cinnamon, according to Wikipedia), then those are two different plants. Hence that could explain why one lightened and the other didn't.

No idea if cinnamon leaf oil and cinnamon bark oil come from the same plant or not. You'd have to check that with your supplier.

Hijack: Cinnamon in a cup of hot mead is marvellous for colds, especially with lemon, honey, ginger, nutmeg and a pinch of chili powder. :wink:

ktani
March 31st, 2008, 04:03 PM
Cassia cinnamon is a related species but not true cinnamon - yes, it is a different plant.

I believe that the colour change will be permanent - peroxide lightening does not tend to redarken.

From the title, both plants may be closely related enough to have the same or similar peroxide values. There is more information on cassia and cinnamon - scroll down.
http://books.google.ca/books?id=KZa8aPxR_-wC&pg=PA322&lpg=PA322&dq=cinnamon+pov&source=web&ots=pjIeAfr5-Z&sig=OMZG-eBpqhAP5xevko2Ot2tkeW4&hl=en

The oil in the mister - in such a small quantity, may not have been strong enough.

MeMyselfandI
March 31st, 2008, 04:10 PM
Interesting question. I would have to believe that this is permanent, my ends have gotten fairly translucent (still brownish colored, but more see-through), and they were not that way before. ...

Aine,

I would be cautious if your hair got that light.

Looking at the POV table of ground cinnamon, I would assume misting with this would be simillar to spraying a very weak solution of peroxide to the hair.

Sarahmoon
March 31st, 2008, 04:20 PM
So I had another "Holy Moly" moment the other day. I wasn't sure if it was worth sharing, but I figured that's exactly what I said about the original Monistat thread and look how that one turned out.

Anyhow, I had been developing my hobby in perfumed hair misters, and blending them with essential oils. My favorite has been the one made with cinnamon oil, simply because it smells sweet, smell lasts forever, and you only need a little bit to get a lot of bang.

After a while, with the cinnamon mister, my hair began to feel a little crunchy, not dried out but just stiff (I think I had been overzealous in my use of the mister, I admit). I switched to just putting ground cinnamon in my conditioner to get the same smell. It rinsed out well, and left a wonderful aroma, I was happy.

Well, let's just say that two and a half months later, my very dark brown hair is looking quite a bit more "golden" these days. People keep pointing out how I have "dyed my hair". And of course I haven't. But it certainly has jumped 3 or 4 shades lighter. I have nothing else in which to attribute the change in color, I haven't changed my routine. I use the same water, I use all my same products, I am very sure it was the cinnamon that did it.

Sure enough, when I googled "cinnamon+hair+lighten", lo and behold, there are other beauty websites that have already dallied with this. *Slapping my forehead* And here I was thinking, "Oh look at this new thing I'm doing to fragrance my hair"... and all this time, people were doing it to naturally bleach their hair.

So, I guess if anybody is looking for an alternative way to bleach his/her hair color gradually, this might be an option besides industrial peroxide.
:blueeek::blueeek::blueeek: Thanks for the warning!!! I have never expected the nice brown cinnamon to do something like that.

Not to self: Never use cinnamon on hair.

SHELIAANN1969
March 31st, 2008, 04:33 PM
History
In classical times, four types of cinnamon were distinguished (and often confused):

Cassia (Hebrew qəṣi`â), the bark of Cinnamomum iners from Arabia and Ethiopia


posted from Wiki--- someone was telling me they had cassia and I was like oh cool!! (BUt it was cassia (cinnamon) I was just saying it was a CASSIA plant and was funny.

Áine
March 31st, 2008, 04:48 PM
Aine,

I would be cautious if your hair got that light.

Looking at the POV table of ground cinnamon, I would assume misting with this would be simillar to spraying a very weak solution of peroxide to the hair.

Yes, I have stopped using the cinnamon once I noticed the color change. It was my ends that finally convinced me that my hair was in fact lightening, otherwise I would have keep doing it, totally oblivious. It's funny how we don't tend to notice slight changes in the things we see daily until it becomes drastic enough.

My hair still appears to be very strong, no split ends, no texture change or dryness. Just lighter. I may have to look into coloring it back darker again. I'm not too fond of having dark roots and light hair.

Henna Sooq
April 1st, 2008, 09:28 AM
this is a pretty interesting thread! making highlights would have been neat.

blackfrostqueen
April 1st, 2008, 01:49 PM
Alright, I had to do an experiment! It was too tempting! The length of my hair is chemically dyed and so I've been trying to lighten my roots with honey (its not really noticeable except in the sun) but that's been going way too slow for my taste. SO I tried a run of ground cinnamon in my hair with conditioner over night. 8 hours of ground cinnamon and Herbal Essences Hello Hydration in my hair, I can say my hair is a little dry but nothing a wash and a five minute conditioner treatment wouldn't fit. But what is really amazing is the color change! It's no where close to the dyed length, but after a few more nights of treatment I bet I can get it closer!!

Here is the photos of my results!

Before Cinnamon:
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a323/BlackFrostQueen/IMG_0697.jpg

After Cinnamon:
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a323/BlackFrostQueen/IMG_0696.jpg

Unofficial_Rose
April 1st, 2008, 02:59 PM
Oh my goodness, I always want to lighten my hair - must try this. Might help me stay out of the hairdressers a little longer!

Áine
April 1st, 2008, 03:04 PM
Oh my goodness Blackfrostqueen!

That is most definitely a noticeable change. Now there is confirmation that I am not going crazy, and that there is actual lightening involved. Thanks so much for the photos. I can see that it has lifted your color and revealed (deposited?) more golden tones.

Nynaeve
April 1st, 2008, 03:53 PM
Wow, blackfrostqueen, that is some crazy lightening.
Cinnamon is so delightfully brown, this lightening aspect is so crazy!
Note to self: never use cinnamon in hair unless I want to lighten.

wintersun99
April 1st, 2008, 05:10 PM
I must be color blind'ish - it doesn't look any different to me, except that it looks like there is more of a glare on the second picture (I assumed it was from the light) Is it definately noticeable in natural daylight?

Sarahmoon
April 1st, 2008, 05:50 PM
I thought it wasn't lighter in the second picture, but looks more "goldish" instead of "ashy".

Blueglass
April 1st, 2008, 06:01 PM
Second pic looks more yellow to me. I'm going to try cinnamon bark. I don't know if its cinnamon or cassia as you say, but highlights would be very good for my color. I'm doing an Morrocco method yellow henna tonight, and I will include cinnamon. (Anothony says Marigold blonde is a henna made from different parts of the plant.)

Wavelength
April 1st, 2008, 06:19 PM
This is so intriguing! blackfrostqueen, what were the proportions of ground cinnamon to conditioner that you used?

blackfrostqueen
April 2nd, 2008, 12:18 AM
The proportions weren't exactly measured out like I would use with honey and conditioner, cause I didn't know how much ground cinnamon to use. So after washing and conditioning my hair (after my shower - when my hair was still wet) I added enough conditioner to form a thick "paste" like "moose" texture to my damp hair and then just used about three to four palm size handfuls of cinnamon, rubbing the pounder into my conditioner sticky hair (I was just trying to make sure my hair was evenly coated).

Article used as my guide-lines (http://www.wikihow.com/Lighten-Your-Hair-With-Cinnamon)

The result photos were taken in the same light (my bedroom overhead fan), natural light cannot access it there that is why my camera's flash kicked on (in both).

Lexie
April 2nd, 2008, 12:45 PM
It seems a bit lighter on my laptop but with a strawberry tone now. Is that about right?

Henna Sooq
April 2nd, 2008, 04:12 PM
nice!! It seems like a real change for sure

akurah
April 2nd, 2008, 08:10 PM
I'm mildly confused--the cinnamon that was responsible for the bleaching action in this specific instance is the American cinnamon, the "Cassia" cinnamon? IE, go to Safeway, buy a jar of ground cinammon, that's it?

Two or three sorts of cinnamons have been mentioned so I'm a bit mixed up.

Lexie
April 2nd, 2008, 11:29 PM
I am kind of too...the only thing I know about cinnamon is 'cinnamon bark' is good for diabetes, so I take it everyday. The regular ground cinnamon we sprinkle on food is supposed to be good as well, so I assumed they were the same thing. Apparently they might not be? I don't know anymore.

ktani
April 2nd, 2008, 11:44 PM
According to Wiki - the cinnamon you buy at the grocery store in North America is cassia (Cinnamomum aromaticum, synonym C. cassia) - it is not true cinnamon but it is a related species. "... close relative, Cinnamon (Cinnamomum zeylanicum, also known as "true cinnamon" or "Ceylon cinnamon")"

"Most of the spice sold as cinnamon in the United States and Canada.... is actually cassia."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassia

It is not cassia obovata - used in the Cassia thread - that is cassia senna.

zelah
April 3rd, 2008, 12:31 AM
Well thank you for sharing! It has certainly resulted in a very interesting detective's game. I will keep this in mind should I ever need to lighten my hair.

cutenappygrl
April 3rd, 2008, 11:23 AM
Now i wanna try this - b/c using honey made my hair as hard as a brick. I was using a teaspoon in 4oz. of hot water and spraying it in. I wonder would just using cassia- the one they sell at hennaforhair- in your conditioner would do the same thing b/c I guess you really never know what you are getting w/the grocery store brands of cinnamon.

wintersun99
April 3rd, 2008, 12:09 PM
Now i wanna try this - b/c using honey made my hair as hard as a brick. I was using a teaspoon in 4oz. of hot water and spraying it in. I wonder would just using cassia- the one they sell at hennaforhair- in your conditioner would do the same thing b/c I guess you really never know what you are getting w/the grocery store brands of cinnamon.

I'm pretty certain you will not want to use either as a spray in / leave in. The residue coating left on your hair would result in dry, perhaps brittle hair.

cutenappygrl
April 3rd, 2008, 02:31 PM
I'm off to experiment - I mixed 4oz water, 1/2 tsp of honey, 1/2 tsp lemon juice, 1 tsp of cinnamon - and a plastic shower cap - we'll see what happens.

ktani
April 3rd, 2008, 02:37 PM
cutenappygrl

Methods of counteracting the hardness you have gotten with honey in the past - honey can leave a residue - would be to follow your experiment with a weak vinegar rinse - 1 tsp of vinegar to 24 oz of water, left on the hair for 30-60 seconds and rinsed out or shampooing.

Check out these results.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=46951&postcount=142

and this

POV - Peroxide value of cinnamon and other spices - Scroll down the page for more information on cassia and true cinnamon.
http://books.google.ca/books?id=KZa8aPxR_-wC&pg=PA322&lpg=PA322&dq=cinnamon+pov&source=web&ots=pjIeAfr5-Z&sig=OMZG-eBpqhAP5xevko2Ot2tkeW4&hl=en

Lixie
April 3rd, 2008, 04:07 PM
This is really interesting, thank you very much for posting about this, Áine. Now I'm madly curious and want to give it a try; sounds like a much better way to put a streak through my hair than using chemical bleach.

cutenappygrl
April 4th, 2008, 02:07 AM
So i tried it too and let my mix sit for 12 hours in my hair - it wasn't that easy to wash out. There is a change - not super dramatic - but there are some subtle highlights. I think I will be adding cinnamon to my henna treatments from now on.

cutenappygrl
April 4th, 2008, 07:53 AM
oh - and that treatment had amazing conditioning properties - did follow the shampoo w/ a weak ACV rinse and my hair is amazingly soft - this is an excellent deep conditioning treatment. And also - the recipe I posted above is for 3" of extremely thick hair.

ktani
April 4th, 2008, 08:51 AM
Great news that your hair is so soft - and that you got a subtle change in colour.

Anje
April 4th, 2008, 02:49 PM
Hmmm... I may have to try this. The henna has gotten a bit dark for my taste, especially on the ends.

If you just add the cinnamon to conditioner (I like the gradual original accident), does it rinse out OK?

Nightshade
April 4th, 2008, 04:01 PM
Very interesting :) I may have to try this too :D

Wavelength
April 4th, 2008, 08:36 PM
I bought a big container of cinnamon last time I was at the grocery... just in case I should happen to feel like experimenting. :D

Nat242
April 4th, 2008, 09:14 PM
I'm so excited! Last night, I made a mix of conditioner, lemon juice, EVOO, and about a teaspoon of cinnamon powder. Using a hair dye applicator brush I brushed it on my roots, which have picked up a purplish tone from henna that I'm not too fond of.

I covered my hair with a scarf and headband, and slept on it. I noticed that it became powdery, and although my scarf slipped off overnight, there isn't anything icky on my pillow, just a few cinnamon grains.

I washed it out an hour ago - I had to do two rounds of diluted shampoo to get the grit out, and my scalp isn't overly fond of being conditioned and oiled anyway - and my roots are now dry.

OH. MY. GODDESS.

My roots blend beautifully with my length now! The purplish tone is gone, leaving a deep coppery orange colour that I love (along with my ashy roots). I'm so thrilled! I've been trying to get this effect with conditioner/honey/lemon juice treatments, with little success.

There is still a slight difference between the henna'd hair and the box dyed hair, but it's much more subtle, and I'm much happier with the colour overall. :cheese:

I've tried to take photos but my cell phone camera is rubbish, so you can't really tell.

Just take my word for it! :cheese: :cheese: :cheese:

Whimsical wind
April 5th, 2008, 06:23 AM
I am so trying this!

nowxisxforever
April 5th, 2008, 03:05 PM
Haha interesting!
I use clove oil to scent mine, after having had 3 tablespoons of ground clove in my first henna mix and LOVING the scent. It does have a similar smell to cinnamon, perhaps you'd enjoy it? I don't know if it lightens.

ktani
April 5th, 2008, 03:13 PM
The peroxide value of clove is similar to that of EVOO, which has not been repoted to lighten hair much on its own.
http://books.google.ca/books?id=KZa8aPxR_-wC&pg=PA322&lpg=PA322&dq=cinnamon+pov&source=web&ots=pjIeAfr5-Z&sig=OMZG-eBpqhAP5xevko2Ot2tkeW4&hl=en

Áine
April 5th, 2008, 03:31 PM
Hmmm... I may have to try this. The henna has gotten a bit dark for my taste, especially on the ends.

If you just add the cinnamon to conditioner (I like the gradual original accident), does it rinse out OK?

In my experience, it does rinse out okay. It might take a little effort, depending on the contioner, but it doesn't linger long. It seems like it's more attracted to the conditioner than the hair, so even if you don't get out 100% of it, the few grains left brush right out.

Shermie Girl
April 5th, 2008, 06:45 PM
I read this thread with a great deal of interest, as I am still trying to remove henna red from my hair. I was thinking that cinnamon could be a help, but in the Wiki article I read that in addition to lightening the hair, it also adds a little red. Not what I am looking for. I am trying to get rid of red. Not add more. :D

prosperina
April 5th, 2008, 07:08 PM
Hmmm. How did I miss this?

When I did a henna gloss a couple months ago, I added clove and cinnamon for smell, and I ended up with a few big blond splotches in my red... but they washed out. I wonder if a real cinnamon dying, like what everyone has done here, would last? If it's like cassia it'll have to be repeated. Most try again, but just with cinnamon.

akurah
April 5th, 2008, 07:24 PM
BTW---be careful when dealing with cinnamon.

I made a mixture of cinnamon, honey, and conditioner. Washed my hair, ponytailed it, and made it a point only to put the stuff on the ponytail. Some of it got on my skin, and I developed some irritation there. It went away a few minutes after I wiped it off. My scalp also didn't approve of the cinnamon+honey mixture, I think it's due to the peroxide content. (it isn't as bad as having bleach on your skin, at least)

My hair is superduper soft now, and smells yummy. I have no idea if it's lighter or not (nor do I really care--I don't know WHY I do these weird things to my hair to adjust the color when I really don't dislike my henna red at all. I'm just.. twitchy, I guess)

ktani
April 5th, 2008, 07:39 PM
Cinnamon can irritate skin.
http://www.cosmeticscop.com/learn/cosmetic_dictionary.asp?id=8&letter=C

"Contact dermatitis ... reported after single exposure and repeated use of cinnamon.... See "Adverse Reactions"
http://www.drugs.com/npp/cinnamon.html

Scroll down to "Cassia-in industry" for more information on the oils
http://books.google.ca/books?id=KZa8aPxR_-wC&pg=PA322&lpg=PA322&dq=cinnamon+pov&source=web&ots=pjIeAfr5-Z&sig=OMZG-eBpqhAP5xevko2Ot2tkeW4&hl=en

In more recent research - cinnamon fights human cancer cells.
http://www.life-enhancement.com/article_template.asp?ID=1164

JKRBeloved
April 5th, 2008, 09:20 PM
Does anyone have any experience to know if cinnamon would have whitening or yellowing effect on gray hair?

wintersun99
April 5th, 2008, 09:58 PM
*posted in the Honey thread, as well*

I'm back to report. My mix (at least this first time) does not appear to have lightened my hair, but it does appear that it may have moved the henna on my roots to more brown. Also, my hair has NEVER been more soft and conditioned! It really is amazing, much more so then honey/condish alone. Although it doesn't appear to lighten henna (and negative on the indigo too) I will still use this as a weekly deep condition, I will probably add a bit of EVOO, next time.

mix was:
Honey, Condish, Coconut Milk, Cinnamon

ETA: I will continue to use this mix as a weekly deep conditioner, so overtime it may prove to lighten my hair, I will keep track with quarterly pictures and note any observations. :)

wintersun99
April 5th, 2008, 09:59 PM
Does anyone have any experience to know if cinnamon would have whitening or yellowing effect on gray hair?

I don't think this will be true (in fact, doesn't Nightshade have an experiment that show's mohair turning slightly brownish?)

Dacia
April 6th, 2008, 03:29 AM
I've tried this too yesterday for 3 hours. My mix: 2tsp hair mask, 1 tsp honey, 1tsp cinnamon. Didn't notice any color change on the dark brown dyed part, but the 2 months old virgin roots are definitely a warm-reddish brown now, like when I'm staying too much in the sun. Despite the warm tones don't suit me, I'll keep using it until the next dye job. The softness isn't very different from a normal co+honey mix. The best part: the smell of my milk toffee hair mask combined with cinnamon is to die for!:happydance:

GlassEyes
April 6th, 2008, 07:26 AM
Hmmm, that's weird.

I add cinnamon to my henna (I just remembered) and I wonder if that has any altering factor on dye uptake...

mellie
April 6th, 2008, 12:45 PM
Dacia, I also did a mask yesterday too! I mixed honey, cinnamon and chamomile flowers...wow it smelled so incredible!!! Didn't see any real color change, but I only did 1 hr. But the wonderful smell was totally worth it! :-)

wintersun99
April 6th, 2008, 03:21 PM
Hmmm, that's weird.

I add cinnamon to my henna (I just remembered) and I wonder if that has any altering factor on dye uptake...

I'm doubting that adding cinnamon to henna mix will have much of an impact. I believe the henna dye is way to strong and will overpower any herbal additives, such as this. It MAY have an effect if applied to old henna or henna that is not built up too much on new growth.

BlueMeezer
April 6th, 2008, 05:49 PM
If you want to get some really good cinnamon, and know which type you are buying, Penzey's can't be beat. There is no comparison to that sad stuff the grocery store carries.

http://www.penzeys.com/cgi-bin/penzeys/p-penzeyscinnamon.html

I haven't read through this whole thread so if someone has already posted this, forgive me.

Crysania
April 6th, 2008, 09:51 PM
anyone know of a site where I can order this kind of cinnamon in Canada ?
you really made me want to try it now:)

dontcallmejessi
April 6th, 2008, 10:27 PM
Aine, how much ground cinnamon did you add to how much shampoo for this effect?

Áine
April 7th, 2008, 02:17 PM
Aine, how much ground cinnamon did you add to how much shampoo for this effect?

Not shampoo, I put it in conditioner.

I put nearly a half a cup of cinnamon (or ~ 100 mL) to a half-full bottle of conditioner (about 250mL), so altogether, a full third of the mix was cinnamon.

Nightshade
April 7th, 2008, 02:31 PM
Hmmm, that's weird.

I add cinnamon to my henna (I just remembered) and I wonder if that has any altering factor on dye uptake...


I'm doubting that adding cinnamon to henna mix will have much of an impact. I believe the henna dye is way to strong and will overpower any herbal additives, such as this. It MAY have an effect if applied to old henna or henna that is not built up too much on new growth.

Nope, the lawsone is just too strong. I actually did a strand test of cinnamon, it left virtually no stain on white mohair, (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=48736&postcount=24) now compare that to the henna strands in the same thread (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=1380)...I'm pretty convinced that with rare exception, all other herbs (outside of indigo and such) do in a henna mix is dilute the henna.

ETA: I also wonder... even if you could lighten henna with this procedure after the fact, if the henna wouldn't just darken up again like it seems to with everything else.

Áine
April 7th, 2008, 02:58 PM
I had a small hunch that cinnamon doesn't really stain, but I wasn't sure. I believe it has more of a blanching/bleaching effect.

Unofficial_Rose
April 7th, 2008, 03:16 PM
BTW---be careful when dealing with cinnamon.

I made a mixture of cinnamon, honey, and conditioner. Washed my hair, ponytailed it, and made it a point only to put the stuff on the ponytail. Some of it got on my skin, and I developed some irritation there. It went away a few minutes after I wiped it off. My scalp also didn't approve of the cinnamon+honey mixture, I think it's due to the peroxide content. (it isn't as bad as having bleach on your skin, at least)

My hair is superduper soft now, and smells yummy. I have no idea if it's lighter or not (nor do I really care--I don't know WHY I do these weird things to my hair to adjust the color when I really don't dislike my henna red at all. I'm just.. twitchy, I guess)

I'm always hoping to find a natural way to lighten my hair, so I put quite a bit of cinnamon in my cassia. The results were similar to those above - i.e. much softer hair than with the cassia, but an itchy scalp, to which I applied olive oil to stop the itches. Hair smells gorgeous and is possibly slightly lighter. Will use again but I will try to oil just my scalp beforehand. Although thinking about it, miconazole on the scalp might form anough of a barrier...

Unnamed
April 7th, 2008, 03:54 PM
ETA: I also wonder... even if you could lighten henna with this procedure after the fact, if the henna wouldn't just darken up again like it seems to with everything else.

I don't have henna, but I have black dye--direct dyes (which reoxidized after colorfix, in November), and I'm sorta fiddling with the cinnamon just on the dyed hair, as I'm curious if it'd oxidise back or not. So far I've done two long soakings (one overnight, one about 4 hours), but I'll do more. So far, the ends seem less red, of all things (more just 'brown' than a very clear red-brown); at least in person. Not sure about in pics.

Hmm, I do have my old colourfix test strands that I could maybe go soak in cinnamon for a while? Actually, I think I'll go do that. Experimenting is fun. :cool: Assuming they lighten, I'll leave 'em alone for a week or so and see if they go back dark. Not henna, but might be useful, still. :lol:

Nightshade
April 7th, 2008, 04:09 PM
I don't have henna, but I have black dye--direct dyes (which reoxidized after colorfix, in November), and I'm sorta fiddling with the cinnamon just on the dyed hair, as I'm curious if it'd oxidise back or not. So far I've done two long soakings (one overnight, one about 4 hours), but I'll do more. So far, the ends seem less red, of all things (more just 'brown' than a very clear red-brown); at least in person. Not sure about in pics.

Hmm, I do have my old colourfix test strands that I could maybe go soak in cinnamon for a while? Actually, I think I'll go do that. Experimenting is fun. :cool: Assuming they lighten, I'll leave 'em alone for a week or so and see if they go back dark. Not henna, but might be useful, still. :lol:

Indeed, still useful :) I'll be interested to hear your results!

wintersun99
April 7th, 2008, 06:00 PM
ETA: I also wonder... even if you could lighten henna with this procedure after the fact, if the henna wouldn't just darken up again like it seems to with everything else.

I posted on "the other" (honey) thread, but my experience using a mix of honey,cond,cinn,coconut milk (twice now) seemed to be that the cinn helped to turn the henna (on my roots) a much browner, but NOT lighter color. FYI

Mishka_84
April 8th, 2008, 10:13 AM
I tried some cinnamon in my hair this weekend. I mixed (probably too much) cinnamon with some conditioner and honey, and wet my hair, then slathered everything on. I left it for about 30 minutes, under ceran wrap (what I use for henna), then washed out.

The results? My hair doesn't seem to have lightened noticeably, but is brighter color. It's still just as dark, but the color seems more visible. I'm not sure how to explain it. I think I will continue to try this, and see if it will lighten over time.

Do be careful though, the cinnamon did "burn" my skin. Where it touched my shoulders I looked like I'd been sunburned for 20 minutes or so after washing. My husband thinks its the oils in the cinnamon are hot (reminds me of Big Red chewing gum, how it's cinnamon gum but very hot).

Áine
April 8th, 2008, 12:49 PM
^ Mishka, I'm sorry to read about the burning. Yes, do be careful with it, your husband is right about the oil being "hot".

I understand what you are saying about your hair color. Perhaps a certain undertone was lessened, but the actually color of your hair was still the same hue. Maybe it's a like a blonde person who removes some ashy tones, but still has the "same color", yet it's brighter??? Am I correct?

Diamondgirl2003
April 10th, 2008, 04:37 PM
I dont want to divert but I wanted to ask :

So can I do highlight with the cinnamon?!? I too am amazed by the (well to me) unkown properties of cinnamon. Like I said I want to try to put placement highlights <chunks> and wondering if anybody has tried it?

Áine
April 10th, 2008, 11:39 PM
Hi Diamond!

I am sure that has been done before by somebody...

Ahaaa... found it (http://public.fotki.com/kittikat24/my-cinnamon-highlig/)!

DolphinPrincess
April 13th, 2008, 01:05 PM
I just need to post a warning to anyone who is using or plans on using spices in their lightening recipes. Even if you have had no reaction to previous recipes, be sure to patch test every time! I have used several different mixes that contained cinnamon, nutmeg, and cardamom. Last night I used a treatment that only contained cinnamon, just a little bit more than usual. I applied it to my hair in the shower, planning to just leave it on for a little bit. I immediately felt a little burning on the back of my neck, so I just rinsed my neck and washed it with a bit of soap, pulling my hair up out of the way. I finished the rest of my shower, then rinsed my hair, and shampooed and conditioned, then got out. I wrapped my hair up, then went to dry off when I noticed my upper back and neck were a little tender and very warm. I looked in the mirror to see this:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v111/dolphin_princess2004/hair/001-1.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v111/dolphin_princess2004/hair/003.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v111/dolphin_princess2004/hair/002-2.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v111/dolphin_princess2004/hair/005-1.jpg
The redness was even brighter in person! I applied aloe gel, and lots of it, and thankfully there was no redness left this morning, but it sure freaked me out!

CherrySilver
April 13th, 2008, 03:24 PM
Well, I've decided to take the plunge. My red hair has been darkening over the last 10 years or so, and I'd love to try to recapture the brightness that it once had. Have tried a variety of things in the past (all temporary) with varying degrees of success (honey, marigold, chamomile, etc.).

Missed together a half a bottle of conditioner with at least a half cup of cinnamon and some very generous squirts of honey. Initially mixture was too dry to be able to spread thru my hair easily, so I just kept adding condition till it was more spreadable.

Got the same burns on my skin -- immediately wiped the stuff off. Hope my scalp isn't too burnt in the morning. Sitting with my head covered up in saran wrap right now. Will report in in the morning -- wish me luck!

ktani
April 13th, 2008, 04:58 PM
CherrySilver

Depending on the honey and the conditioner, you may or may not get added lightening from the honey.

Honey needs to be well diluted to produce peroxide.

Some conditioners work well with honey in a recipe, some do not.

Good luck.

Nat242
April 13th, 2008, 05:25 PM
OUCH! Thanks for the warning, Dolphin! I'm glad it healed quickly!

--Natalie

DolphinPrincess
April 13th, 2008, 06:09 PM
Nat - Me too! I think the excessive aloe gel is what really took care of it!

CherrySilver
April 14th, 2008, 12:12 PM
Thanks, ktani, for your feedback. I had tried the honey treatment (well diluted) a few times before. It lightened a bit -- but for some reason, it did not seem to lighten as much or last as long as I would have liked. On to my next experiment results.....

I was pleasantly surprised this morning when I washed out my hair to see after it dried, that it had, in fact produced relatively noticeable results for a first try. I'll admit, I was a bit worried when I sent to sleep that I'd wake up with bleached ends. In fact, I didn't sleep as well as I would have liked (only about 5 hours).

My scalp was fine, and I was worried about that as I have very sensitive skin being a redhead. I'm doing to try this treatment again, using a little less cinnamon (and definitely less on the ends). If the lightening is going to be permanent, I really want to take my time with it and make sure I don't make any huge mistakes!

ktani
April 14th, 2008, 12:23 PM
CherrySilver

Great news on your results.

Honey lightening does not usually redarken - there have been one or two reports but I never could figure out what was going on with that.

It may have been other things happining in the recipe - other ingredients?

I am pleased for you that you did not have sensitivity problems - been there - I have a very sensitive scalp.

I now believe that a honey lightening treatment only needs to be left on the hair for an hour at a time or a bit more. Here is why.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=63546&postcount=278

CherrySilver
April 14th, 2008, 12:33 PM
Great, will try it again. Went out and bought a HUGE jar of honey. Gotta use it up somehow!

flapjack
April 15th, 2008, 02:29 PM
I'm probably going to try this. My hair is a mix of browns, blondes and some red, but in the winter months the top of the hair gets a bit darker. I would like to match it up a little better in a natural way without cutting off the lighter ends that are still very healthy (especially since I chopped off 3 inches about a month ago, anyway).

aisling
April 16th, 2008, 05:40 AM
DolphinPrincess, you're not alone! I added my conditioner-cinnamon mix to dry hair and got some drops on my forehead and neck. In just a couple of minutes the skin there got very red and angry, funnily my scalp didn't mind. The redness went away in about an hour but I'm sure never using cinnamon again! Interestingly, from chamomile rinses I get allergic eye symptoms :)

Strongnlong
April 16th, 2008, 09:00 AM
I'm trying to get rid of my henna...but I just KNOW this is what would happen to me too. I'd end up popping Benadryl like a madwoman! Glad to know aloe gel worked to calm it.

Redvelvetdragon
April 16th, 2008, 10:10 AM
Is it damaging? I'm trying to get rid of some chemical highlight and I've had it with the split ends. If I can lighten a little with cinnamon I'll do it but not if it will continue with my split ends.

nappywomyn
April 16th, 2008, 12:03 PM
*twitch*

I'm SO trying this over the next couple of weeks. It's perfect timing too, as summer is coming, and the sun helps to 'lighten' my hair as well.

Oooooooohhhh!! Could my dreams of red hair be a little closer to reality?

DolphinPrincess
April 16th, 2008, 02:16 PM
DolphinPrincess, you're not alone! I added my conditioner-cinnamon mix to dry hair and got some drops on my forehead and neck. In just a couple of minutes the skin there got very red and angry, funnily my scalp didn't mind. The redness went away in about an hour but I'm sure never using cinnamon again! Interestingly, from chamomile rinses I get allergic eye symptoms :)


See, my scalp was ok with it too, that's why it was so weird, I do have sensitive skin though. I guess when the mix was that fresh, it was too powerful for my skin or something. :shrug:

For anyone who has sensitive skin and is going to brave this treatment, just be sure you have aloe around! I'm not sure if Benadryl would work or not.

Áine
April 18th, 2008, 06:33 PM
Goodness Dolphin,

I am so sorry that this happened to you, those photos are alarming!

ktani
April 18th, 2008, 06:38 PM
I just added this to a post in Honey.

The irritant in cinnamon, is according this this link, cinnamic aldehyde a constituent of the oil. Hydrogen peroxide is not mentioned.
See both "Cinamomum" and "Cinnamomum cassia"
http://bodd.cf.ac.uk/BotDermFolder/BotDermL/LAUR.html (http://bodd.cf.ac.uk/BotDermFolder/BotDermL/LAUR.html)

And in this one, other constituents were named as well, in a case of long term irritation but again, no mention of hydrogen peroxide.
http://www.ingentaconnect.com/conten...00004/art00015 (http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/mksg/cod/2005/00000052/00000004/art00015)

Hayat
April 20th, 2008, 07:29 AM
I'm so excited! Last night, I made a mix of conditioner, lemon juice, EVOO, and about a teaspoon of cinnamon powder. Using a hair dye applicator brush I brushed it on my roots, which have picked up a purplish tone from henna that I'm not too fond of.

I covered my hair with a scarf and headband, and slept on it. I noticed that it became powdery, and although my scarf slipped off overnight, there isn't anything icky on my pillow, just a few cinnamon grains.

I washed it out an hour ago - I had to do two rounds of diluted shampoo to get the grit out, and my scalp isn't overly fond of being conditioned and oiled anyway - and my roots are now dry.


My BF has ash blonde hair, and would really like to get it lightened. As I will not bleach his hair chemically, I think I'll try this out with cinnamon. Guess I'll try a mixture like yours and let him sleep with it. But what is EVOO? And why the lemon juice?

Another thing I have been thinking of is to add about one tea spoon of cinnamon to a SMT with honey, and let sit overnight. Would this work I wonder?

ktani
April 20th, 2008, 08:03 AM
Hayat

The SMT might work as long as you do not microwave the mix - that would destroy the enzyme in honey that produces peroxide. I recommend leaving the lemon juice out of either mix though - lemon juice can interfere with the peroxide the honey produces in terms of its potency and the peroxide of the cinnamon too for the same reason.

Hydrogen peroxide will oxidize Vitamin C and be depleted in its amount in doing so. I recommend not adding any ingredient with a high Vitamin C content to a honey or cinnamon lightening recipe.

EVOO is extra virgin olive oil, which also has a peroxide value and has been reported to boost a honey lightening recipe's effectivness. I do not think that you should add too much of it though - it can leave hair greasy and be difficult to wash out of the hair.

The SMT mix does not have to be left on overnight.

lf the honey is well diluted - a ratio of 4 to 1 liquid to honey, including the conditioner, but not the oil - an hour or so is all that is needed, IMO.

Faepirate
April 20th, 2008, 12:32 PM
I am sitting here right now with a delicious mixture of coconut & almond conditioner, honey, aloe vera and cinnamon on my head. I have no idea if this will have any effect whatsoever but I thought it would be interesting to try... More importantly, I'm getting a much-needed deep condition. Yesss.

flapjack
April 20th, 2008, 02:46 PM
So I've been attempting this in my own sort of way. And I think it might be working. I need to keep better track of pictures as now I don't have "before" pictures, but I do have "after" pictures. I have been spraying cinnamon, honey, squeezed lemon juice and coconut oil on my hair, blow-drying the roots a little and then sleeping with it wrapped in a towel. It's bringing out more coppery tones in my hair, which I actually am really liking. I think it makes my eyes look a brighter green. :D


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v106/theironflapjack/blub.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v106/theironflapjack/flub.jpg


My hair looks darker in this one because of my own shadow I think. I only have my cell phone to take pictures, sorry!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v106/theironflapjack/tlub.jpg



I want to take a picture of it in the sun! But I seem to be having trouble with lighting. I'm good at taking photos of objects/people that are not me, hahaha.

1nuitblanche
April 20th, 2008, 03:05 PM
This is really neat. One day, when I have lots of time to myself, I might experiment with honey, cinnamon, and EVOO...

Hayat
April 20th, 2008, 04:54 PM
Ktani: Thank you for the information. It was really helpful! :-)

ktani
April 20th, 2008, 05:50 PM
Hayat

You are most welcome.

savi
April 22nd, 2008, 01:48 PM
I immediately felt a little burning on the back of my neck, so I just rinsed my neck and washed it with a bit of soap, pulling my hair up out of the way. I finished the rest of my shower, then rinsed my hair, and shampooed and conditioned, then got out. I wrapped my hair up, then went to dry off when I noticed my upper back and neck were a little tender and very warm. I looked in the mirror to see this:





The redness was even brighter in person! I applied aloe gel, and lots of it, and thankfully there was no redness left this morning, but it sure freaked me out!


Yeah, quess who else had this reaction? The pictures looked like my skin too. I put some natural yogurt on it as a mask and after rinsing that off applied aloe vera gel. I think those did wonders to soothe the skin down.

Áine
April 23rd, 2008, 03:25 PM
Well, I would say this:

If you are going to use the cinnamon to lighten hair, treat the process as you would with any other chemical color/relaxer/perm treatment... keep it off your skin. Not everything that is natural is necessarily gentle.

I'm very sorry that some of the members had this irritation happen, I can imagine it was not pleasant at all. I still wouldn't go so far as to say stay away from cinnamon, because clearly, it does work to an extent, but with these few incidents, I would just be more diligent about keeping my neck and back protected.

By the way, Dolphin, how did you fare with the results on your hair?

DolphinPrincess
April 24th, 2008, 09:55 PM
So far I haven't really had any lightening. I've done several two-step henna/indigo applications and the color just won't lighten at all. (Yes, I knew it was permanent when I started) I've also been doing plain honey treatments though. :shrug: Still trying though! My hair is loving all the deep-treatments. :D

ktani
April 25th, 2008, 09:58 AM
Just sharing information.

"The Federal Institute for Risk Assessment recommends reducing total intake
natural .... coumarin, can cause liver damage in highly sensitive individuals. .... the effect can be reversed once coumarin intake is halted. This plant ingredient is found in woodruff and sweet clover and there are higher levels in cassia cinnamon, too. ... synthetically produced coumarin is added as a fragrance to cosmetics and can reach the body through the skin. The Federal Institute for Risk Assessment (BfR) has evaluated the analytical results .... in order to assess the scale on which cosmetics contribute to consumer exposure to coumarin. The result: consumers could already exceed the tolerable daily intake ... of coumarin just by using cosmetics with high coumarin levels."
http://www.bfr.bund.de/cd/10569
(http://www.bfr.bund.de/cd/10569)



From one of my earlier posts in Honey

"All of the powdered cinnamon ... in supermarkets in the United States ... actually Cassia.
European health agencies have recently warned against consuming high amounts of cassia, due to ... toxic component .... coumarin.[1] This is contained in much lower dosages in Cinnamomum burmannii ... Coumarin ... known to cause liver and kidney damage in high concentrations. True Ceylon cinnamon has negligible amounts of Coumarin."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinnamo...mon_and_cassia

ETA: I am not the least bit shy about asking hard questions if I want to know something. I just ask nicely. I just got off the phone with the company that sells the cinnamon I buy. Even though their website says that cinnamon can be true cinnamon or cassia, the rep told me that their cinnamon is pure cassia cinnamon. Here is the interesting part.
The cassia cinnamon they get is monitored and only accepted if it contains between 10 parts per billion and 4 parts per million coumarin, under their quality control measures.
Nice to know that some companies are being responsible.

wintersun99
April 25th, 2008, 12:11 PM
So far I haven't really had any lightening. I've done several two-step henna/indigo applications and the color just won't lighten at all. (Yes, I knew it was permanent when I started) I've also been doing plain honey treatments though. :shrug: Still trying though! My hair is loving all the deep-treatments. :D


yep, same here. I've settled on a particular mix that is awesome for conditioning, so I keep using it, but no fading/ lightening of the indigo. I've cut down on the cinnamon, no problems with irritation... I'm now using: (weekly)

1 part honey
1 part coconut milk
1 part evoo
1/2 part cinnamon
3 parts conditioner

kwaniesiam
April 25th, 2008, 09:16 PM
I am definitely going to try the cinnamon to lighten my hair. I have roots and some henna on the ends. Hopefully I'll be able to lighten it all a bit with repeated use. How often would it be safe to use this, weekly?

Serea
April 26th, 2008, 11:56 PM
so what do u think would happened if i misted cinnamon and left it there? Would i get the same results? or would it be slower or faster than emerging cinnamon wih conditioner

Nat242
April 27th, 2008, 01:26 AM
so what do u think would happened if i misted cinnamon and left it there? Would i get the same results? or would it be slower or faster than emerging cinnamon wih conditioner

I think it would go all gunky in your hair. I've added some cinnamon to my shampoo dilution, and if I'm not really thorough when washing it out, my hair feels awful and my combs become filthy.

-- Natalie

blackfrostqueen
April 27th, 2008, 11:06 PM
Yeah, cinnamon is a pain to get out of hair. Kind of like sand. Though I don't think is much harder or easier to get out of your hair than honey. That is a trick (at least from me) too.

Áine
April 28th, 2008, 02:41 PM
I am definitely going to try the cinnamon to lighten my hair. I have roots and some henna on the ends. Hopefully I'll be able to lighten it all a bit with repeated use. How often would it be safe to use this, weekly?

I think it may be a trial an error method... as it seems to me that everybody has a different schedule for using conditioner on their hair.


so what do u think would happened if i misted cinnamon and left it there? Would i get the same results? or would it be slower or faster than emerging cinnamon wih conditioner

I used a mister with cinnamon oil in my hair, not the actual ground cinnamon, so there wasn't any little particles to rinse out.

nappywomyn
April 28th, 2008, 03:21 PM
I tried this (added cinnamon to my caramel treat) and ohmigods, it was a pain, pain, PAIN to get all the little cinnamon bits out of my hair. I think I still have some up there, actually.

If I do this consistently, I'll definitely have to invest in some cinnamon oil....

ktani
April 28th, 2008, 04:59 PM
I have not seen any indication that the oil has the peroxide value needed for hair lightening.

It is ground cinnamon that has the peroxide value in question.
http://books.google.ca/books?id=KZa8aPxR_-wC&pg=PA322&lpg=PA322&dq=cinnamon+pov&source=web&ots=pjIeAfr5-Z&sig=OMZG-eBpqhAP5xevko2Ot2tkeW4&hl=en

Cinnamon oil is a potent irritant.

ETA: The irritant in cinnamon, is according this this link, cinnamic aldehyde a constituent of the oil. Hydrogen peroxide is not mentioned.

See "Cinamomum"
"Cinnamic aldehyde .... caused contact sensitivity
Cinnamic aldehyde in perfumes can cause dermatitis"
http://bodd.cf.ac.uk/BotDermFolder/BotDermL/LAUR.html

See "Cimmamomum cassia"
"A girl who dipped toothpicks in Oil of Cassia .... developed dermatitis of the hands and forearms.
Cinnamic aldehyde was found to be a sensitiser .... The chemical has been observed to cause contact urticaria"
http://bodd.cf.ac.uk/BotDermFolder/BotDermL/LAUR.html

ktani
April 28th, 2008, 06:21 PM
Cinnamic aldehyde or cinnamalydehyde

"Cinnamaldehyde occurs naturally in the bark of cinnamon trees and other species of the genus Cinnamomum .... and cassia.

These trees are the natural source of cinnamon .... essential oil of cinnamon bark is about 90&#37; cinnamaldehyde.

Concentrated cinnamaldehyde is a skin irritant ...."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinnamaldehyde


This source has better references.

See"Chemistry"
"The essential oil is primarily composed of 65% to 80% cinnamaldehyde ...
See "Adverse Reactions"
Contact dermatitis has been reported .... single exposure and repeated use of cinnamon ..... preparations."
http://www.drugs.com/npp/cinnamon.html

Áine
April 28th, 2008, 06:53 PM
I tried this (added cinnamon to my caramel treat) and ohmigods, it was a pain, pain, PAIN to get all the little cinnamon bits out of my hair. I think I still have some up there, actually.

If I do this consistently, I'll definitely have to invest in some cinnamon oil....

Please do be very careful with that oil. It is very potent, and so much so, that I only added a few drops to a full bottle of mister solution. That definitely won't be sufficient to lighten your hair the way you might like, but it sure packs a punch when you get any little bit of that stuff on your skin.

ktani
April 28th, 2008, 06:57 PM
I have seen no references to cinnamon oil having a peroxide value at all - if there is one, I doubt that it is enough to lighten hair.

Áine
April 28th, 2008, 07:20 PM
I have seen no references to cinnamon oil having a peroxide value at all - if there is one, I doubt that it is enough to lighten hair.

Yes, thank you, Ktani. You have posted this before...

I'm curious, what is it about my response that prompted you to repeat yourself?

ktani
April 28th, 2008, 07:43 PM
Please do be very careful with that oil. It is very potent, and so much so, that I only added a few drops to a full bottle of mister solution. That definitely won't be sufficient to lighten your hair the way you might like, but it sure packs a punch when you get any little bit of that stuff on your skin.

I had said earlier that I had seen no indication that the oil would likely lighten.

I should have said that I had seen no evidence of a peroxide value listed anywhere.

When you said that it definitely would not be sufficient diluted in a mister to lighten, I realized that I had not been clear.

It is too easy and has been done - that people increase the amounts of ingredients to increase their effectiveness.

Sorry for the repeat - it was more an attempt to clarify my position than it was what you said.

Blueglass
April 28th, 2008, 09:23 PM
Do we have any results that says this really lightens like clear before and afters taken in the same light.

Áine
April 29th, 2008, 12:57 AM
I had said earlier that I had seen no indication that the oil would likely lighten.

I should have said that I had seen no evidence of a peroxide value listed anywhere.

When you said that it definitely would not be sufficient diluted in a mister to lighten, I realized that I had not been clear.

It is too easy and has been done - that people increase the amounts of ingredients to increase their effectiveness.

Sorry for the repeat - it was more an attempt to clarify my position than it was what you said.

No worries. I understand now. ;)


Do we have any results that says this really lightens like clear before and afters taken in the same light.

I have some good results that are very noticeable (and accidental). However I don't own a working digital camera at the moment, so I regret that I cannot provide photographic evidence like I should. Some people have actually posted a before and after to the best of their circumstances, though I take it by your inquiry that you desire to see more of them.

I will say that based upon other deliberate attempts at lightening among other hair forum sites, it seems to work best on hair that is virgin in color (not chemically/herbally colored), and in my own case, it was over a longer time span of repeated applications that caused such a change.

Blueglass
April 29th, 2008, 12:41 PM
I do remember the swatchs ealier in this thread. Its difficult because I know how different hair can look, depending on the light. I have been trying with cinnamon. I don't see much difference yet. Though I've used some blonde henna. But before henna I tried honey it really didn't do anything for me. I'm not really sure lemon does either. Salt, given enough time seems to, a little in conjuction with sunlight. I really want cinnamon to work.

meichigo
May 6th, 2008, 02:46 AM
I'm really curious to try this, but I'm not the type to just 'experiment'... Can anyone recommend a good recipe/routine? (ie, (x) parts conditioner to (x) parts cinnamon, etc; work through hair and leave on for (x) hours, any recommendation for time between repeats...?)

Reading through, it seems as though many people are also mixing in honey and lemon... I tried honey once before and it didn't really have much of an effect, but it seems as though people are getting results much more quickly with cinnamon.

Not sure how much hair type affects effectiveness, but you can see mine is between waist and hip, totally straight, neither fine nor thick. Color is a medium brown, 'mostly' virgin (only semi-permanent dye's been used, and nothing more recent than a year ago). This will be my first foray into permanent change, so I'm slightly anxious! But very excited.

dontcallmejessi
June 7th, 2008, 04:26 PM
Ok I am ready to try this. I did try adding cinnamon to conditioner straight but it was very icky and even after shampooing and rinsing very well, I still had flakes of cinamon in my hair. So what I did this time was took a coffee mug with about a cup of water, heated in microwave until boiling, poured this and about a half cup of cinnamon powder in a large insulated mug and allowed it to steep for several hours. I think I had to add even more water because the cinnamon soaked up all the water. after it soaked for a long long time I was left with a gooing glob of cinnamon and on the top was some oil. So I strained off the oil by placing a fine strainer over an empty, clean large yogurt container and allowed the goo to strain overnight. this left me with the oil off the cinnamon in the yogurt container with no cinnamon flakes. I used about 2 tablespoons of this with about 2 tablespoons of honey added to half cup of conditioner mixed well, shampooed and added this to my hair, plastic shower capped and am letting it sit. I don't know yet how long. I will check in with results. I forgot to take a before pic. At first I wasn't going to post my results but i see that very few have actually tried this.

ETA: ok I have a before pic on my profile so I will use that as before pic. i think I will leave it sit until bedtime, which would be about 8 hours. Don't think I can stand to sleep in it.

dontcallmejessi
June 9th, 2008, 07:32 PM
Well I haven't been able to take a followup pic because the battery is dead on my cam. I can't find the thing I need to charge it. Anyway, there was a definate noticable difference. I don't think it is dramatic enough to be noticable to others but to me I can tell it is a much bigger difference than honey alone. I will continue to use this mixture. I think after just a couple of treatments I will have the shade I desire. My goal is to brighten my hair for summer and bring out my natural golden highlights.

Oskimosa
June 9th, 2008, 09:40 PM
Hi, everyone, this is my first time posting here but I have been hearing alot about this thread over at Hennaforhair. I've been looking for a natural way to put in some highlights on my hennaed hair, which was medium/dark blonde to begin with and doesnt have much buildup.. Anyhow, I heard someone say that someone else applied honey, conditioner, and.. something else I forget for 5 hours and (after wrapping it) used a blowdryer to apply heat intermittently. They said the results were pretty drastic. I'm curious because I haven't heard anyone say a peep about applying heat. I have tried using straight 30 vol on my hair for nearly 2 hours and got almost nowhere in the way of highlights. If mixing cinnamon, (diluted) honey and a teensey bit of 30 vol would work, i'd be willing to try it. Especially if it had reliable results...

dontcallmejessi
June 18th, 2008, 08:44 PM
ok well the second treatment didn't seem very noticable to me. :rolleyes: I can only assume from this that if you are going to steep the oil from cinnamon powder like I did that you must use it while still relatively fresh. The first treatment I did was while it was only a few days old. the second treatment it was a couple weeks old. Anyway I cheated and found some cinnamon extract at the store in the spice isle :D and doing a treatment right now trying this in place of the cinnamon powder. Why you ask? because I can't stand the gritty feeling i get when I use the powder and it still remains on my scalp. Apparently my scalp hair has become super thick (thank you monistat!) anyway my mix is now 1 tbsp cinnamon extract, 1 tbsp honey, 1/2 cup conditioner. these are all approximate of course. I will leave on for about 4-6 hours, unless I can manage to sleep on it tonight which I doubt. I shall report back with results.

dontcallmejessi
June 19th, 2008, 10:52 PM
Can't tell that the cinnamon extract did anything. It is possible i didn't leave it on long enough. So I won't totally rule it out unless i try again and still no results.

Elettaria
June 29th, 2008, 11:28 AM
I did a hendigo gloss the other night, after agonising over it here (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=7307), and the colour hasn't quite come out as I like. My hair's a bit darker, but it's an ashy dark brown with reddish undertones, rather than the chestnut I was hoping for. I shampooed it thoroughly the next day (i.e. last night) which I think has pulled out a little of the indigo, but it's still not quite what I want, though I'll see how it settles over the next week. Since going darker doesn't seem to work well on me, I think I'd like to stay with the same depth of colour as usual (medium brown), partly for ease of keeping it up, and bring out copper and golden tones.

Would cinnamon be a good place to start in bringing it closer to how it was originally? Cinnamon with cassia perhaps? I prefer gloss treatments to mud treatments, as they're so much easier to do. Is it worth messing around with chamomile or anything like that? I add coconut powder to my face masks to make them more moisturising (coconut + amla = smells of mince pies); would that be worth adding? Honey's not going to happen as I'm vegan, but I've wondered about molasses, which also finds its way into my face masks.

I have sensitive skin, so I'm a bit concerned about reactions. I have a hairball sitting in a mix of cinnamon, conditioner and a bit of olive oil, and I just tried a ten minute patch test of the mixture on the inside of my wrist with no noticeable results. Would it help to slather my upper body in oil before going in to put the cinnamon treatment on, as a protective measure? I don't mind an evening of sore skin if it spares me having noticeably darker ends to my hair for the next seven years.

ktani
June 29th, 2008, 12:08 PM
I have written a complete honey lightening recommendations post.

It is in my signature below.

It has information on cinnamon - all forms - see #3.

As to cassia in honey lightening - see this link from #15

firebird's recipe with cassia and results
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=94944&postcount=489

I will be happy to answer any questions in Honey or you can pm me.

Elettaria
June 29th, 2008, 12:30 PM
Yes, but the thing is, I'm not going to be adding cassia to honey, as I'm not going to be using honey at all. Those posts all seem to be about how various substances react *with honey*, which is why I'm getting confused. Taking honey out of the mix presumably changes things considerably.

Has anyone tried cardamon powder in their hair, and if so, what happened? And did they faff around with grinding the pods themselves, or cheat and use pre-ground cardamon (which certainly loses its fragrance very fast)? I know that the essential oil of cardamon, from which I derive my user name incidentially, is far less of a skin irritant than cinnamon EO. If it's also got a higher peroxide value than cinnamon, then why isn't everyone using cardamon instead? The hassle of grinding the seeds?

I'll assume that my hair length and thickness is pretty bog-standard for this forum, and start with 1 tbsp cinnamon then. As I said in the PM, do you think there's anything I can do to lessen the chance of skin irritation, such as oiling my upper torso beforehand, or using chamomile tea in the cinnamon/conditioner blend? I'll slap on aloe vera the instant I'm out of the shower, just to be on the safe side.

I've just looked at the herbal supplier (http://www.baldwins.co.uk/Herbs-Roots-Barks-Powders-And-Dried-Flowers/Herbs-Roots-Barks-Powders-And-Dried-Flowers/Herbs-C/Baldwins-Cinnamon-Powder-(Cinnamomum-Verum)/8837/404) I'm planning to buy my cassia and other stuff from, and the cinnamon they sell is cinnamomum verum, aka cinnamomum zeylanicum or true cinnamon. Unfortunately, after reading 13 pages of the cinnamon thread and sundry other things, my brain has fried somewhat and I've lost track of which cinnamon it is that everyone's been using.

ktani
June 29th, 2008, 12:40 PM
Elettaria

Have a look at this post from Honey.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=133707&postcount=1095

It tells you which recipes and results included cardamom.

The Honey thread is the only place where ground cardamom is recommended, has been tried and the results are there.

No one tried ground cardamom on its own.

Like the other peroxide boosters - its peroxide value is not as high as that of most honeys.

It would take much longer for you to see results using ground cardamom alone, than using it with honey.

Please refer questions on ground cardamom and ground cinnamon to Honey or by pm. I do not feel comfortable answering further questions here in the detail needed and cardamom is off topic in this thread.

The irritant properies of both kinds of cinnamon you refer to are equal.

There is the information in the Honey thread on ground cardamom and ground cinnamon that you may find helpful, or just read #3 of the recommendations post, below.

dontcallmejessi
June 29th, 2008, 09:33 PM
Apparently I don't know what I'm talking about :foot: :D

dontcallmejessi
June 29th, 2008, 09:39 PM
So my camera is working again. I will do another treatment tomorrow with before and after pics finally :silly:
(if I remember):p

dontcallmejessi
July 30th, 2008, 07:50 PM
Well I've done a number of treatments using the 4 to 1 honey with distilled water plus cinnamon but got no change. So I don't know what to do now. I have been using a catnip plus camomile rinse after every wash. But it is supposed to lighten not darken. I don't get what happened. :shrug:

ktani
July 30th, 2008, 08:14 PM
I am replying to your pm with details, but I will post here too.

1/4 cup honey needs 1 1/2 cups distilled water not 1 cup. The 4 to 1 dilution was corrected a while ago.

You are applying the treatment to dry hair that has aloe gel on it - aloe gel contains Vitamin C.

You could also try a different honey but right now your dilution is short and the aloe is affecting your results, IMO.

You are using aloe gel as a moisturizer - from your pm - in that amount it is definitely affecting your results IMO.

"3. Use the 4 to 1 dilution (it is based on 4 x the amount of water to honey by weight) - e.g. 1/8 cup honey needs 3/4 cup distilled water, 50 ml honey needs 200 ml distilled water etc.
http://www.traditionaloven.com/conve...surements.html

7. Apply the treatment to dry hair if there is no aloe gel on it - aloe gel contains Vitamin C, or an unrinsed out rinse with Vitamin C, heavy residue, or a large amount of oil on the hair (a large amount of oil will act as a barrier to the water). If there is, wash the hair first then dry it to slightly damp. You will get less drips on dry hair. The treatment can be applied with a tint, blush, or pastry brush or a squirt bottle."
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=211265&postcount=1826


"11. Conditioner is no longer recommended to be included in honey lightening recipes. Conditioner can contain ingredients that interfere with honey lightening and because of its water content (most conditioners are between 70 to 90 &#37; water), if used as part of the 4 to 1 ratio, shorten the amount of water needed for optimal honey dilution. The same applies to coconut cream and milk (they contain minerals and can contain Vitamin C, as well as not enough water). You can use conditioner only, to wash out a honey lightening treatment, instead of using shampoo or just rinsing it out. If there is honey residue, shampoo and or a vinegar rinse is recommended and has been reported to easily resolve the problem."
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=134083&postcount=1096

The coconut milk soaks you did and then appplied the honey lightening tratment on top of - were they rinsed out or washed off?

Coconut milk contains minerals that can negatively affect peroxide too.

dontcallmejessi
July 30th, 2008, 08:59 PM
No I didn't combine the coconut milk with the treatment. I did the coconut milk soak some weeks before the treatments. I always s/c after the milk soak. I just thought i should mention it in case it made any residue or something.

ktani
July 30th, 2008, 09:03 PM
Then no - the coconut milk soak would not have negatively affected the treatment IMO.

Coconut milk and cream actually have a peroxide value - not as much as evoo or honey.

But some coconut milks and creams can deplete the honey peroxide value with their Vitamin C and mineral content - enough to reduce results - not necessarily prevent lightening - that depends on the honey.

meichigo
August 10th, 2008, 03:39 AM
Ok I am ready to try this. I did try adding cinnamon to conditioner straight but it was very icky and even after shampooing and rinsing very well, I still had flakes of cinamon in my hair. So what I did this time was took a coffee mug with about a cup of water, heated in microwave until boiling, poured this and about a half cup of cinnamon powder in a large insulated mug and allowed it to steep for several hours. I think I had to add even more water because the cinnamon soaked up all the water. after it soaked for a long long time I was left with a gooing glob of cinnamon and on the top was some oil. So I strained off the oil by placing a fine strainer over an empty, clean large yogurt container and allowed the goo to strain overnight. this left me with the oil off the cinnamon in the yogurt container with no cinnamon flakes. I used about 2 tablespoons of this with about 2 tablespoons of honey added to half cup of conditioner mixed well, shampooed and added this to my hair, plastic shower capped and am letting it sit. I don't know yet how long. I will check in with results. I forgot to take a before pic. At first I wasn't going to post my results but i see that very few have actually tried this.

ETA: ok I have a before pic on my profile so I will use that as before pic. i think I will leave it sit until bedtime, which would be about 8 hours. Don't think I can stand to sleep in it.

I think I'm going to try this soon. Just need to get some cinnamon from the store! (We only have a small thingy of it, which I need for baking and stuff so I can't use it all up on my hair, sadly.) I'll also use a shower cap to keep it off my skin, and I'll have my mom or my boyfriend help me rinse it out in our huge laundry room sink or something, with a towel firmly around my neck to keep the water from running down it.
Excited!!!
If it works well, I'll probably repeat daily or every other day until it's the right shade. I realized my hair has gotten a lot darker over the past couple years. Possibly from being inside so much.

meichigo
August 11th, 2008, 09:11 PM
I bought some cinnamon today at Costco, but all they had was "Saigon Cinnamon." So here's to hoping it works!

meichigo
August 12th, 2008, 03:38 PM
So, I steeped and strained the cinnamon. I don't know if it was the "Saigon" Cinnamon or if the water wasn't hot enough, but I didn't notice any "oil" separating... I've got some cinnamon water at the bottom, and then this gloopy cinnamon paste on top (I strained it through a piece of chiffon). I'm going to try mixing the water with my conditioner and see if that works. If not, I'll use actual cinnamon and deal with the flakes.

Edit: My boyfriend theorizes the failure was that I didn't use an insulated mug. I don't even know if we have one.

kmoffett
September 19th, 2008, 02:23 AM
Soooo going to try this!

maryva
September 20th, 2008, 01:48 AM
This is so strange -- I just recently started researching how to naturally maintain darker color in my faded, color treated hair, and read an article on this forum that lists cinnamon as a way to darken hair. I haven't had time to read this whole thread yet, but it sounds like cinnamon has actually lightened some people's hair -- is that correct??? Has anyone experienced cinnamon making brunette hair a richer color??

Here's the list it gives to enhance brunette hair:

Brunette Enhancers- Most effective various brown starting colors.

Acorns(boiled)
Amla
Black Walnut Hull Powder: Dark golden browns
Cinnamon
Cloves
Coffee grinds
Coffee: Deep Golden Brown
Cutch: Light to mid range of browns
Ivy Berries
Juniper Bark: medium brown
Juniper berries
Juniper Mistletoe: light brown
Molasses
Oak bark: tan or oak color.
Parsley
Potato
Raspberry
Red Sandalwood: Range of browns
Rosemary
Sage: Deep brown
Sagebrush: light brownish orange
Wild plum root: reddish or rusty brown.

And here's the link:

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=2

ktani
September 20th, 2008, 07:28 AM
While there are articles on the internet, talking about ground cinnamon adding red tones to hair, in Honey, when ground cinnamon is added to a honey lightening recipe, (with no heat applied to it - heating cinnamon can deplete the hydrogen peroxide in it and when heat has been applied to it, it has been reported to not help lighten hair), no added colour has been reported, none, in multiple examples.

Here is just one example, on on blonde hair, including a recipe with cassia, which was the cause of adding red/gold tones to hair and ground cinnamon was at first, suspected. A honey lightening recipe with ground cinnamon, helped lighten the hair back to the colour wanted.

firebird - 3 sets of pictures, 2 sets linked - on previously dyed hair and virgin regrowth, with ground cinnamon and EVOO
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=75235&postcount=393

on a cassia treatment that had darkened her hair - with ground cinnamon and EVOO, no conditioner
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=94944&postcount=489

maryva
September 20th, 2008, 09:48 PM
Am I understanding that cinnamon will not lighten hair if it is heated before application? Thanks so much.

ktani
September 20th, 2008, 09:51 PM
Am I understanding that cinnamon will not lighten hair if it is heated before application? Thanks so much.

Hydrogen peroxide is negatively affected by heat. It depends on the amount of heat and the time applied. So yes, cinnamon can be affected by heat and not help lighten hair.

twilight_faerie
September 21st, 2008, 07:49 PM
OK, so is the general consensus that using cinnamon on hennaed hair does *NOT* work?

ktani
September 21st, 2008, 08:06 PM
OK, so is the general consensus that using cinnamon on hennaed hair does *NOT* work?

I am not sure what you mean by work. If you mean can ground cinnamon help lighten henna, the answer is yes, based on honey lightening results. The ground cinnamon was not heated though at any point in time.

A few examples honey lightening on hennaed hair that include cinnamon in the recipe
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=227385&postcount=1902

joyinc
September 21st, 2008, 08:42 PM
for those of you that have been doing this regularly, have you noticed any significant damage? I'd love to find something to lighten my hair gradually, but i have very fine hair that i have to be delicate with. If I just mix some in my conditioner and rinse it out, will that damage in the long run?

also, do any of you do ACV rinses? I am wondering if the 2 can be done together, or if that would be too irritating

ktani
September 21st, 2008, 08:50 PM
for those of you that have been doing this regularly, have you noticed any significant damage? I'd love to find something to lighten my hair gradually, but i have very fine hair that i have to be delicate with. If I just mix some in my conditioner and rinse it out, will that damage in the long run?

also, do any of you do ACV rinses? I am wondering if the 2 can be done together, or if that would be too irritating

Honey lightening, both with and without cinnamon, has not been reported to damage hair.

An explanation and supporting research can be found here, in the first few posts.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=10495

This will bring you up to date on the Honey thread.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=1661&postcount=1

This will explain why honey and conditioner yielded reports of only gradual lightening with conditioner or no lightening at all in some cases.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=274753&postcount=2243

Honey can leave a residue on hair, that is best removed by shampoo as opposed to a vinegar rinse. Some honeys leave no discernable residue.

joyinc
September 21st, 2008, 09:00 PM
thank you, but i am vegan for ethical reasons and i wont use honey... thats why i was asking about the cinnamon
:)

ktani
September 21st, 2008, 09:08 PM
thank you, but i am vegan for ethical reasons and i wont use honey... thats why i was asking about the cinnamon
:)

I had forgotten that you are vegan. I respect your beliefs.

I had misunderstood your question as well. This thread is not just about using cinnamon. It evolved into using cinnamon with honey too and I thought using both together, was what you meant.

The following may help you.

The peroxide value of cinnamon, although high for a spice, is not as high as the peroxide value a honey can have. Cinnamon lightening on its own can be very gradual as reported in the first few posts of this thread. The OP reported that it took months but no damage to hair was reported.

Both cinnamon and cardamom and the honey lightening booster oils, coconut and evoo, contain the same or the same kind of protective flavonoids as honey, that were found in research, to protect cells from hydrogen peroxide damage. The flavonoids are chelants and P&G found that chemical chelants help protect hair from conventional peroxide damage too. You may be able to put together a mix, using just the honey lightening boosters with distilled water, to get results that are faster and better than cinnamon used on its own in a mix with conditioner.

I recommend, from the reports in Honey, that you stir the cinnamon into a mix, not add it on top as some online articles suggest. Cinnamon spilled on skin, has been reported to cause painful irritation. I suggest patch testing and not using too much spice at one time, 1 -2 tablespoons maximum, starting with less and 1 tablespoon of oil, maximum.

I discussed this further in Honey.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=276883&postcount=2260

joyinc
September 22nd, 2008, 10:41 AM
thanks so much, and no worries!

i was just wondering, from people who are still using the cinnamon on a regular basis, are you noticing any damage in your hair?

ktani
September 22nd, 2008, 10:57 AM
thanks so much, and no worries!

i was just wondering, from people who are still using the cinnamon on a regular basis, are you noticing any damage in your hair?

None of the honey lightening boosters has been reported to damage hair in Honey, nor have I seen any reference to any of them or cinnamon lightened hair and damaged hair, anywhere else, if this helps.

FlyBabyTina
September 29th, 2008, 02:56 PM
I am currently doing an experiment.
Cinnamon mixed with conditioner
Cinnamon mixed with EVOO
Each sample of shed hair is in it's own baggie soaking right now.
I also have some shed hair with no treatment so that I can take comparison pics.
They have been soaking for about 3 hours now; how long should I leave them?

magpielaura
September 29th, 2008, 04:51 PM
Ooooh just found this thread and will definately experiement more!

I've done a couple of honey lightening treatments but I'm not quite sure there are noticeable results yet - I used one of the recomended honeys from the honey thread but maybe I'll try a different one. I also added cinnamon - a good tip when mixing something powdery into a recipe is to add a little water to the dry ingredient and gradually blend the wet indredients. The first mix I did was honey, water and evoo - when I added cinnamon it floated o the top, soaked up the oil and stayed as horrible brown globs:o. No amount of mixing would disperse it so I ended up spooning it off and using the mix without it! Next time I added wet to dry - much better:D!

I found (as others here have) that cinnamon does irritate my skin where it runs down my neck. It doesn't bother my scalp at all, and redness where it does occur fades rapidly. I just keep a towel snugly around my neck and a damp cloth to hand to wipe dribbles up quickly.

My hair is naturally very dark blonde which easily brightens to honey/gold tones in the sun... If it shines that is! A particularily wet, grey summer in the uk this year has me desperate to liven up my hair. More messing with the contents of the spice rack is called for! I'm going to try a few mixes without honey as the stickyness (when its on working) is a bit inconvienient sometimes.:p

ktani
September 29th, 2008, 08:56 PM
Ooooh just found this thread and will definately experiement more!

I've done a couple of honey lightening treatments but I'm not quite sure there are noticeable results yet - I used one of the recomended honeys from the honey thread but maybe I'll try a different one. I also added cinnamon - a good tip when mixing something powdery into a recipe is to add a little water to the dry ingredient and gradually blend the wet indredients. The first mix I did was honey, water and evoo - when I added cinnamon it floated o the top, soaked up the oil and stayed as horrible brown globs:o. No amount of mixing would disperse it so I ended up spooning it off and using the mix without it! Next time I added wet to dry - much better:D!

I found (as others here have) that cinnamon does irritate my skin where it runs down my neck. It doesn't bother my scalp at all, and redness where it does occur fades rapidly. I just keep a towel snugly around my neck and a damp cloth to hand to wipe dribbles up quickly.

My hair is naturally very dark blonde which easily brightens to honey/gold tones in the sun... If it shines that is! A particularily wet, grey summer in the uk this year has me desperate to liven up my hair. More messing with the contents of the spice rack is called for! I'm going to try a few mixes without honey as the stickyness (when its on working) is a bit inconvienient sometimes.:p

Try using distilled water with your mixes and the honey lightening guidelines regardless of whether you use the honey or not (no heat or added Vitamin C and mix and use everything at room temperature only. Also cover your very wet hair and keep it wet for the time that the treatment is on your hair. A swim cap is recommended.

The new diltuion is 6 oz or 12 tablespoons to 2 tablespoons honey and/or any cinnamon and/oil you may add to the recipe. Suggesteted oil amounts 1 tablespoon or less.

magpielaura
September 30th, 2008, 04:26 PM
Oh yes - I'd read all the honey lightening guidelines:)

distilled water, room temp etc all goes without saying!!!:D

There's a lot of work gone into the honey thread - so much information! I think I put too much honey in... I see the recomended amount but I always chuck in extra for luck. I'm not too worried if it takes a few treatments as I definately don't want any kind of roots growing through. A fortnightly treatment to lighten the hair in a subtle way as it grows is what i'm aiming for. I should really take some progress shots but as you can see I still haven't sorted out an avatar thingy so I'm not great at that sort of thing.

ktani
September 30th, 2008, 07:25 PM
Oh yes - I'd read all the honey lightening guidelines:)

distilled water, room temp etc all goes without saying!!!:D

There's a lot of work gone into the honey thread - so much information! I think I put too much honey in... I see the recomended amount but I always chuck in extra for luck. I'm not too worried if it takes a few treatments as I definately don't want any kind of roots growing through. A fortnightly treatment to lighten the hair in a subtle way as it grows is what i'm aiming for. I should really take some progress shots but as you can see I still haven't sorted out an avatar thingy so I'm not great at that sort of thing.

I understand what you are trying to do but I think that you are going about it the wrong way.

If you want the results to be gradual, leave the honey lightening treatment on for less time than the 1 hour recommended time.

By adding more honey and lessening the dilution, you are lowering the pH of the treatment and not allowing the honey to produce its optimal amount of peroxide.

The result of this, is that it will take longer to get the results you want each time you do a treatment and more treatments to possibly get the lightening that you are after.

magpielaura
October 1st, 2008, 04:20 PM
ooh thats really interesting - I thought a bit too much honey was just making an uneconomical mixture. Sorry bees! wasting honey and making a less effectual treatment.

Regardless of my rubbish measuring it gave my hair unbelievable softness and shine. I can't believe I ever bought "proper" hair products. Kitchen cuboards rock!

I think I'll add a bit of cinnamon to my condish washes sometimes (not on my hair/skin very long so less chance of irritation) and do some plain honey (with the correct dilution so some left to spread on my toast) treatments. Once I notice the begining of a colour change I can shorten the time or reduce the frequency of both to gradually maintain the lightening.

I love lhc. Who else would listen to all this waffle?;)

ktani
October 1st, 2008, 04:35 PM
I am currently doing an experiment.
Cinnamon mixed with conditioner
Cinnamon mixed with EVOO
Each sample of shed hair is in it's own baggie soaking right now.
I also have some shed hair with no treatment so that I can take comparison pics.
They have been soaking for about 3 hours now; how long should I leave them?

How did your experiments turn out?

ancilla
October 14th, 2008, 08:15 PM
I've read in most natural beauty books that cinnamon is a darkener for hair!

I tried putting a tablespoon of cinnamon in my conditioner and left it in for an hour. washed it out and it did nothing :(

Áine
October 16th, 2008, 06:13 PM
I've read in most natural beauty books that cinnamon is a darkener for hair!

I tried putting a tablespoon of cinnamon in my conditioner and left it in for an hour. washed it out and it did nothing :(

What was your ratio of cinnamon to conditioner? Is your hair color treated with henna or conventional hair dyes? Was this the first and only time you've tried it so far? Is your hair fairly dark?

Who knows? It may actually have nothing to do with you, and perhaps might be the brand of cinnamon or conditioner you have. So many variables.

henna4grey
May 16th, 2010, 10:41 AM
:waving:
Bumping! I understand this is an old thread, but I'm interested in FlyBabyTina's experiment. Hope you remember it, FlyBabyTina:)

Debra83
May 16th, 2010, 11:55 AM
So, after reading this thread I'm curious too now if people have got pictures to show lightening effects (before and after), if used on henna'd hair?

ravensinger13
May 16th, 2010, 02:39 PM
I've got a question for anyone who uses ground cinnamon in conditioner/treatments; how in the heck do you get it all out? It takes me forever and a day to rinse it out, and usually more than one wash (CO).

abbatabba1137
May 16th, 2010, 08:15 PM
Has anyone perfected a 'mix'? And do you think it would work on arm hairs?
(I agree with others, pics of people would be nice!)

countryhopper
May 17th, 2010, 03:27 AM
Well, thanks to this thread, I'm now sitting with a bag of cinnamon goop on my head :D (ah, the things we do for our hair!)

I put my hair in a loose ponytail and pulled out random sections of hair from around the perimeter. My goal is to have streaks of subtle color all around, visible when my hair is pulled up.

I used 1 tablespoon honey, about 3 heaping teaspoons of cinnamon, and enough olive oil to make a thick, goopy paste. then I smeared it over each strand, and bagged everything up on the top of my head.

I put this on at 4pm, and will try to wash it out by 9pm. I'm going to rinse it out upside down so I don't drip cinnamon on my back and get the tender red skin some have gotten.

I don't worry too much about trying to get every gritty grain of cinnamon out. what doesn't wash out when wet will probably brush out when dry.

I'm anxious to see if there's any color difference! If not, at least it will be an interesting "treatment"!

Henna Sooq
May 17th, 2010, 07:55 AM
Has anyone perfected a 'mix'? And do you think it would work on arm hairs?
(I agree with others, pics of people would be nice!)

Oohh arm hairs. I got italian in me, so the hair on my arms are a little dark, and thick. I would so use a formulation on them, just to lighten them. I hadn't ever thought of that!! I wouldn't do it on my hair, as I love my red henna!

countryhopper
May 17th, 2010, 08:17 AM
update...

I combed out most of the cinnamon before I washed my hair out at 9pm (5 hours total of mixture on my head). The olive oil was really hard to wash out since I don't use shampoo or condish, so some is still in. Now I won't have to oil until next wash day. lol!

My hair is still wet; I'm sitting in front of a fan hoping it will dry faster. No color change that I can see yet... maybe it will be visible when it dries...

*stay tuned....*

Kristin
May 17th, 2010, 04:33 PM
Well, how did it go, countryhopper??? I threw some condish with EVOO, cinnamon, and honey in wet hair when I got home. *Fingers crossed for lifting a bit of my slightly too-dark demi box dye*

yassi
May 17th, 2010, 07:14 PM
I must attempt this. I want to get my hair lighter so that henna will show up better. (I LOVE red hair)
I've been using lemon juice, but the more stuff I try, the lighter it'll get. (I hope.)

countryhopper
May 17th, 2010, 11:58 PM
update # 2

Well, I washed out my hair, the cinnamon came out pretty easily. My head had a HUGE amount of EVOO still on it, so i washed with an egg. It is still super oily. I slept on it like that, and today it feels very smooth but, you guessed it, OILY!! So I'm going to try to rinse it again and maybe use cornstarch to soak up some of the excess.

I still can't see any lightening :( . I will have DH look at it when I am in the sun. Kind of disapointing, though. at least I got a deep oil treatment out of it! :D

I might try putting some cinnamon in my french press coffee maker, pouring hot water in, allow it to steep, and strain the cooled liquid sto use as a rinse so I don't get grains of cinnamon. Maybe using this as a rinse over time will lift so color? although I really wanted highlights...

ETA: Well, I was going to put cornstarch through my hair, but then I thought, why don't I choose something that will match my hair color better?? And guess what i chose? GROUND CINNAMON!! I dusted it through my hair, and now my hair smells wonderful. I'm not sure yet if I will rinse this out today or just let it sit until next wash day. I'm a little worried about staining my pillowcases with the cinnamon.

Debra83
May 18th, 2010, 12:19 AM
Rats. I thought maybe a discovery was made in how to lighten hair, regardless of how it was colored (natural, henna, box dye...).....oh well, back to the drawing board!

ktani
May 18th, 2010, 05:32 AM
The OP of this thread used ground cinnamon mixed with conditioner. The water in the conditioner plus the amount of cinnamon used made the difference to the lightening.

Cinnamon with distilled water and honey, http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=148, See Choosing a honey and honey lightening boosters, has been reported to help lighten hennaed hair and virgin and colour-treated hair. Honey is not diluted by oil. Oil contains no water. Honey slowly produces peroxide when diluted with a fluid that contains water and so does cinnamon and the oils.

Cinnamon can be a strong sensitizer. Caution is recommended with amounts used. No permanent problems have been reported, just painful red skin/scalp with overuse that can be soothed with aloe vera gel but will fade and get better on its own in about 20 minutes after the cinnamon has been removed.

hanne jensen
May 19th, 2010, 03:33 AM
Bumpies! I had trouble finding this thread and want to keep an eye on it.

hanne jensen
May 20th, 2010, 02:18 AM
Aine, how much cinnamon did you use? Did you just condition normally in the shower or leave it in a long time? Would it work with a CO? I usually leave my conditioner on for about 15 minutes.

Jammy
May 20th, 2010, 09:03 AM
This seems to contradict the title of the thread but I just cinnamoned/conditionered my hair for 6 hours and it darkened a shade or two!

Has anyone else experienced this? Weird

ktani
May 20th, 2010, 09:09 AM
This seems to contradict the title of the thread but I just cinnamoned/conditionered my hair for 6 hours and it darkened a shade or two!

Has anyone else experienced this? Weird

Cinnamon has not been reported to darken hair or impart any colour to hair used in honey lightening or in this thread. I cannot explain your results other than to say I am surprised and sorry that that was your result, which I am not questioning happened. Perhaps there was colour in your conditioner that the hair may have absorbed?

pinkrice
May 22nd, 2010, 07:15 AM
Such an interesting find! I guess it's a little unpredictable, but I'm inclined to try it as a gradual thing. I don't use conditioner, though. I use a tea rinse once in a while - so maybe I'll switch to something with cinnamon in it.

Sylvanas
May 22nd, 2010, 07:34 AM
Cinnamon has not been reported to darken hair or impart any colour to hair used in honey lightening or in this thread. I cannot explain your results other than to say I am surprised and sorry that that was your result, which I am not questioning happened. Perhaps there was colour in your conditioner that the hair may have absorbed?

I've been trying out the honey lightening method due to your brilliant thread on the subject, and I've found that using cinnamon as a booster does add a colour to my hair. The cinnamon powder I use is greyish brown, and it gives a very natural looking ashy colour to my hair, which I think is great. There's no darkening as such, just the added ashy tone.

If it was only on my hair, I guess one could argue that I'm imagining things, but the mix with cinnamon in it has also stained the scratched enamel of my bathtub an ashy colour, and it will not come off, so I've had plenty of time to study it :D

ktani
May 22nd, 2010, 08:19 AM
I've been trying out the honey lightening method due to your brilliant thread on the subject, and I've found that using cinnamon as a booster does add a colour to my hair. The cinnamon powder I use is greyish brown, and it gives a very natural looking ashy colour to my hair, which I think is great. There's no darkening as such, just the added ashy tone.

If it was only on my hair, I guess one could argue that I'm imagining things, but the mix with cinnamon in it has also stained the scratched enamel of my bathtub an ashy colour, and it will not come off, so I've had plenty of time to study it :D

Honey lightening in general has been reported to bring highlights and blonde hair back to an ash tone by removing brassy golden tones. I do not think you are imagining things. I have never seen or heard of cinnamon that is grey brown though. The real cinnamon I remember from years ago that my mom used to buy was light golden brown and the cassia cinnamon I have in my kitchen is a darker golden, red brown. Is your cinnamon a mix?

Looking at the picture here on the left, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinnamomum_aromaticum, I think it is possible from the tree itself but the cinnamon is taken from the dried inner bark and I have not seen a grey tone in any cassia cinnamon I have used. I use cassia cinnamon on my cereal. It could be the variety that you have, http://spices.suite101.com/article.cfm/difference_between_cassia_and_cinnamon or it could be that there is outer bark used as filler in your cinnamon, http://www.henriettesherbal.com/eclectic/kings/cinnamomum.html and the ashy colour is coming from that.

Sylvanas
May 22nd, 2010, 08:54 AM
Honey lightening in general has been reported to bring highlights and blonde hair back to an ash tone by removing brassy golden tones. I do not think you are imagining things. I have never seen or heard of cinnamon that is grey brown. The real cinnamon I remember from years ago that my mom used to buy was light golden brown and the cassia cinnamon I have in my kitchen is a darker golden brown. Is your cinnamon a mix?

Looking at the picture here on the left, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinnamomum_aromaticum, I think it is possible from the plant itself but I have not seen it like that.

Yes, I've seen pictures in your thread where natural blonde gets back its ashy tone, and while I am a natural blonde with ashy tones, my hair has been bleached till white, and on top of that I used an amber dye. Honey lightening without cinnamon did make it gradually lighter, but it just looked golden. When I added the cinnamon I had no idea it would stain so well. I'd heard it could give a reddish sheen, but I'm happy it was an ash colour, cause now my roots blend in much better.

As for the cinnamon, I've seen it in many different colours, ranging from almost red to a light brown. The one I'm currently using is a powder, and it comes in a non-seethrough refill bag, so I didn't notice the colour till I opened it. There is very little red in it. Grey is the most dominant colour. The brand is called Hindu (finest spice of the east) And on the back of the bag it says (translated from Norwegian):


Cinnamon is the inner bark of thin branches on the cinnamon tree. Cinnamon has a sweet flavour, and is very aromatic. Cinnamon is grown in China and Indonesia.

I do believe the colour of the spice makes a difference when it comes to adding colour. Someone with golden hair and a pack of golden brown cinnamon might not even be able to tell much difference, but since my hair was golden and the spice greyish, the ashy tone was very noticeable :)

EDIT: Just found this. "Cassia cinnamon is the most common type of cinnamon sold in the Scandinavian countries."

ktani
May 22nd, 2010, 09:06 AM
Yes, I've seen pictures in your thread where natural blonde gets back its ashy tone, and while I am a natural blonde with ashy tones, my hair has been bleached till white, and on top of that I used an amber dye. Honey lightening without cinnamon did make it gradually lighter, but it just looked golden. When I added the cinnamon I had no idea it would stain so well. I'd heard it could give a reddish sheen, but I'm happy it was an ash colour, cause now my roots blend in much better.

As for the cinnamon, I've seen it in many different colours, ranging from almost red to a light brown. The one I'm currently using is a powder, and it comes in a non-seethrough refill bag, so I didn't notice the colour till I opened it. There is very little red in it. Grey is the most dominant colour. The brand is called Hindu (finest spice of the east) And on the back of the bag it says (translated from Norwegian):

I do believe the colour of the spice makes a difference when it comes to adding colour. Someone with golden hair and a pack of golden brown cinnamon might not even be able to tell much difference, but since my hair was golden and the spice greyish, the ashy tone was very noticeable :)

This is most interesting. I have never paid much attention to the colours of the cinnamon I have bought but the shade range if any has been slight and in the golden red tones in the last few years. The lighter colours, a more golden tone, would be the Ceylon cinnamon that is not available that easily here in Canada or North America.

I phoned the brand I had been using at one point about the coumarin content. Their website claimed their cinnamon was a blend of real (Ceylon) and cassia cinnamon but I was told at the time, that it is now just cassia cinnamon (which has a higher although according to the company, monitored coumarin content).

I still suspect that it is outer bark in your cinnamon giving you the colour you have but if you are pleased with it then I see no harm in it.

ETA: "Cassia bark is peeled from stems and branches and set aside to dry. Some varieties are scraped. While drying, the bark curls into quills. The colour varies from light reddish brown for the thin, scraped bark to gray for the thick, unscraped bark. Ground cassia is reddish brown in colour. ..."
http://www.cookbook.hu/angol_receptek/cinnamon.html

It appears that the variety of of cassia cinnamon is the key and both inner and outer bark can be used.
"Indonesian cinnamon, in contrast, is much thicker ... and therefore less easy to break. The quills are outside reddish-brown, similar to Ceylon cinnamon, but the inner side of the bark is much darker gray-brown."
http://www.uni-graz.at/~katzer/engl/Cinn_bur.html

Sylvanas
May 22nd, 2010, 10:27 AM
This is most interesting. I have never paid much attention to the colours of the cinnamon I have bought but the shade range if any has been slight and in the golden red tones in the last few years. The lighter colours, a more golden tone, would be the Ceylon cinnamon that is not available that easily here in Canada or North America.

I phoned the brand I had been using at one point about the coumarin content. Their website claimed their cinnamon was a blend of real (Ceylon) and cassia cinnamon but I was told at the time, that it is now just cassia cinnamon (which has a higher although according to the company, monitored coumarin content).

I still suspect that it is outer bark in your cinnamon giving you the colour you have but if you are pleased with it then I see no harm in it.

ETA: "Cassia bark is peeled from stems and branches and set aside to dry. Some varieties are scraped. While drying, the bark curls into quills. The colour varies from light reddish brown for the thin, scraped bark to gray for the thick, unscraped bark. Ground cassia is reddish brown in colour. ..."
http://www.cookbook.hu/angol_receptek/cinnamon.html

It appears that the variety of of cassia cinnamon is the key and both inner and outer bark can be used.
"Indonesian cinnamon, in contrast, is much thicker ... and therefore less easy to break. The quills are outside reddish-brown, similar to Ceylon cinnamon, but the inner side of the bark is much darker gray-brown."
http://www.uni-graz.at/~katzer/engl/Cinn_bur.html (http://www.uni-graz.at/%7Ekatzer/engl/Cinn_bur.html)

Interesting. It doesn't really matter to me whether it's real cinnamon or cassia, but I think it's kinda cool to know what you're using in your hair and why it behaves the way it does.

I've just been out to the store, looked at the different cinnamon spice bottles, and they all looked more or less reddish brown. This made me wonder if perhaps exposure to light can somehow alter the colour? I usually buy the glass bottles, but as it was only going in my hair, I went for the refill bag last time. It looks like it's made from aluminum, but I'm not 100% sure. The spice in the refill bag is a completely different colour from the (same brand) spice in the glass bottle. I guess there could also be natural variations here, since it's not all from the same batch or even area.

There is a customer service phonenumber on the bag, so I might call them on Monday to see if I can find out what is actually being used. The information on the bag is very vague, and doesn't really tell you much about what's in it.

ktani
May 22nd, 2010, 10:39 AM
Interesting. It doesn't really matter to me whether it's real cinnamon or cassia, but I think it's kinda cool to know what you're using in your hair and why it behaves the way it does.

I've just been out to the store, looked at the different cinnamon spice bottles, and they all looked more or less reddish brown. This made me wonder if perhaps exposure to light can somehow alter the colour? I usually buy the glass bottles, but as it was only going in my hair, I went for the refill bag last time. It looks like it's made from aluminum, but I'm not 100&#37; sure. The spice in the refill bag is a completely different colour from the (same brand) spice in the glass bottle. I guess there could also be natural variations here, since it's not all from the same batch or even area.

There is a customer service phonenumber on the bag, so I might call them on Monday to see if I can find out what is actually being used. The information on the bag is very vague, and doesn't really tell you much about what's in it.

Yes, exposure to UV can affect colour and aging might as well but to me the ones in the glass bottles would be more affected.

ETA: I had to search but I finally found this post, http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=278150&postcount=2251.

Cinnamon, all varieties is acidic. It is possible if the bag is aluminum that it could affect the colour but I doubt it. The cinnamon is dry. I think it is more likely to be that the colour variation is the variety and the "processing" in terms of how the bark is prepared. I do not mean that something else is added to it.

According to this, http://homecooking.about.com/od/foodstorage/a/cinnamonstorage.htm it can go stale fairly quickly but I have never had a problem with that.

Thank you very much for bringing this subject up. I find it fascinating.

BonanzaJB
May 22nd, 2010, 03:24 PM
Hi, FlyBabyTina

I feel curious.. how went your experiment with soaking hair? would you be willing to share? :)

I am currently doing an experiment.
Cinnamon mixed with conditioner
Cinnamon mixed with EVOO
Each sample of shed hair is in it's own baggie soaking right now.
I also have some shed hair with no treatment so that I can take comparison pics.
They have been soaking for about 3 hours now; how long should I leave them?

Drynwhyl
May 22nd, 2010, 04:09 PM
Can anyone tell me how much cinnamon would I need to put in a bottle of conditioner to get results like the OP? A teaspoon to 200ml?
I'm desperately trying to lighten my hair without damage xD
Plus, I LOVE cinnamon.

ktani
May 22nd, 2010, 06:22 PM
Can anyone tell me how much cinnamon would I need to put in a bottle of conditioner to get results like the OP? A teaspoon to 200ml?
I'm desperately trying to lighten my hair without damage xD
Plus, I LOVE cinnamon.

Here you go, http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=52989&postcount=70.

superficial
May 23rd, 2010, 06:12 AM
I did a overnight treatment with cinnamon, condish and olive oil. Can't see any lightening, but my hair is a little bit more red.. It looks kinda nice. Next time I'm going to try a honey/cinnamon mix.

pinkrice
May 23rd, 2010, 07:29 AM
I just bought a shampoo bar that has cinnamon in it. I don't know if it will be strong enough to make a difference, but if there is a change, I will post about it.

Danelliia
May 24th, 2010, 11:10 AM
I wasn't going to pre-condition my hair tonight, but after reading the first couple pages I will definitely be trying this overnight!

countryhopper
May 25th, 2010, 02:41 AM
A note to those trying this:

I have found that the cinnamon is very drying to my hair. Both tims I used it (read my above post on trying to lighten with cinnamon, honey, and EVOO) and also once I used it as a rinse, my hair felt very dry afterwards.

Maybe I'm using too much? has anyone else had a problem with dryness?

ktani
May 25th, 2010, 07:01 AM
A note to those trying this:

I have found that the cinnamon is very drying to my hair. Both tims I used it (read my above post on trying to lighten with cinnamon, honey, and EVOO) and also once I used it as a rinse, my hair felt very dry afterwards.

Maybe I'm using too much? has anyone else had a problem with dryness?

Dryness has not been reported to be the result from honey lightening recipes with cinnamon and evoo. The dryness reported with honey lightening recipes in general is a result of honey residue, best removed with shampooing, from reports.

Even with recipes where someone used more cinnamon than recommended, dryness was not reported as a problem as a result of the cinnamon, where before (without cinnamon) it had not been a problem. Using distilled water or a good tap water and the right dilution (for the honey and other ingredients) makes a differents to results.

The reason conditioner is no longer recommended for honey lightening is that the results using conditioner were too gradual and very inconsistant. Some conditioners contain ingredients that were reported to impede honey lightening in both heavy (most often) and lighter conditioners. All conditioners are acidic which can lower the optimum pH of a honey lightening solution. The water content of conditioners varies.

Honey lightening results can be inconsisteant depending on the honey, the water used, the recipe and the method of application. Eliminating conditioner as a variable and replacing it with water, has alllowed better reported results in 1 hour, compared to results using conditioner in a recipe left on the hair overnight or used repeatedly. Cinnamon has been reported to be an excellent honey lightening booster, with less needed for results when more water has been used.

countryhopper
May 26th, 2010, 05:55 AM
Dryness has not been reported to be the result from honey lightening recipes with cinnamon and evoo. The dryness reported with honey lightening recipes in general is a result of honey residue, best removed with shampooing, from reports.

Even with recipes where someone used more cinnamon than recommended, dryness was not reported as a problem as a result of the cinnamon, where before (without cinnamon) it had not been a problem. Using distilled water or a good tap water and the right dilution (for the honey and other ingredients) makes a differents to results.

The reason conditioner is no longer recommended for honey lightening is that the results using conditioner were too gradual and very inconsistant. Some conditioners contain ingredients that were reported to impede honey lightening in both heavy (most often) and lighter conditioners. All conditioners are acidic which can lower the optimum pH of a honey lightening solution. The water content of conditioners varies.

Honey lightening results can be inconsisteant depending on the honey, the water used, the recipe and the method of application. Eliminating conditioner as a variable and replacing it with water, has alllowed better reported results in 1 hour, compared to results using conditioner in a recipe left on the hair overnight or used repeatedly. Cinnamon has been reported to be an excellent honey lightening booster, with less needed for results when more water has been used.

Well, I'm reporting dryness :D

I did use a couple of tablespoons with I put in my french press along with hot water. I allowed it to steep and cool, and then used it as a rinse for my hair.

It's probably one of those "Too much of a good thing is not a good thing"....thing.

I'll try using MUCH less next time!

ktani
May 26th, 2010, 07:26 AM
Well, I'm reporting dryness :D

I did use a couple of tablespoons with I put in my french press along with hot water. I allowed it to steep and cool, and then used it as a rinse for my hair.

It's probably one of those "Too much of a good thing is not a good thing"....thing.

I'll try using MUCH less next time!

It is your experience. Less sounds like it would be better if used on its own with water. To my knowledge, no one had tried it your way. This is good to know.

Fractalsofhair
May 26th, 2010, 01:04 PM
I mix my henna pretty heavily with cinnamon for the scent(several table spoons), in a gloss form. Could this explain why the gloss comes out so vividly? I use the "not actually cinnamon" but cassia. That lightens as well, I think, based on reading this thread?

ktani
May 26th, 2010, 06:28 PM
I mix my henna pretty heavily with cinnamon for the scent(several table spoons), in a gloss form. Could this explain why the gloss comes out so vividly? I use the "not actually cinnamon" but cassia. That lightens as well, I think, based on reading this thread?

Not the same cassia. Cassia senna can produce its own red tones which may be helping with the colour.

Igraine
May 28th, 2010, 06:13 AM
To think how many times I used ground cinnamon in henna (true cinnamon, I think), and wondering why it takes so long for the shade to deepen!...

countryhopper
May 29th, 2010, 07:57 AM
Update:

I tried cinnamon again as a rinse after washing, but this time i only used maybe half a teaspoon of cinnamon steeped then strained. I had experienced dryness when I did this before (but then again I used a couple of TABLESPOONS), and this time i had no dryness.

Moral of the story: don't go overboard with the cinnamon!! :D

I'm going to continue to use a cinnamon rinse every wash since 1) I have a ton of cinnamon to use up, 2) I like the way my hair smells/feels, and 3) if it actually lightens my hair at the same time, that's a plus! But I'm not going to use the cinnamon exculsively for lightening purposes. It will just be a little extra bonus!

mktmgt
May 31st, 2010, 01:24 AM
Well I'm sitting here with a mixture of 1 cup of distilled water, 1 tbsp of coconut oil, 1 tbsp of EVOO, and 1 tbsp of ground cinnamon (the er...American kind?) on my head wrapped up in a bun and headband. I'm planning to sleep on this. I guess I'll let you know the results? I'll post pictures if there's a nic change in the lightness of my hair.

countryhopper
May 31st, 2010, 03:08 AM
Well I'm sitting here with a mixture of 1 cup of distilled water, 1 tbsp of coconut oil, 1 tbsp of EVOO, and 1 tbsp of ground cinnamon (the er...American kind?) on my head wrapped up in a bun and headband. I'm planning to sleep on this. I guess I'll let you know the results? I'll post pictures if there's a descent change in the lightness of my hair. (My scalp in tingling D:)

OOOoooh, goody! <rubs hands together>

I'm excited for you! I hope it comes out well for you!

hanne jensen
May 31st, 2010, 03:17 AM
Saturday I mixed 1 tbs. cinnamon in my CO blend. Gooped it on dry dirty hair and let it sit for 15 minutes, no head wrapping. My scalp felt warm and tingly, like after a good massage. After 15 mins, it became uncomfortably warm, so in the shower.

I think the cinnamon de-gunked my scalp because my scalp feels a lot more. Not sensitive, just feels more.

After my hair dried, I did notice that my hennaed hair looks different. The color seemed faded.

I will use cinnamon once a week because I want to henna gloss next month and am afraid of burgundy hair.

I really like what cinnamon did for my scalp.

mktmgt
May 31st, 2010, 01:50 PM
OOOoooh, goody! <rubs hands together>

I'm excited for you! I hope it comes out well for you!
Thank you ha.
Well, my hair looks the same, just a bit oily. Yay... :(

ktani
May 31st, 2010, 02:43 PM
Thank you ha.
Well, my hair looks the same, just a bit oily. Yay... :(
What should I use to lighten it?
The henna I've used in the past has basically made my ends brown.

Try 2 tablespoons honey, up to 2 tablespoons ground cinnamon or cardamom, 1 tablespoon evoo and 12 tablespoons distilled water. Apply to hair and keep the hair wet with the mixture for 1 hour.

countryhopper
June 1st, 2010, 01:29 AM
Try 2 tablespoons honey, up to 2 tablespoons ground cinnamon or cardamom, 1 tablespoon evoo and 12 tablespoons distilled water. Apply to hair and keep the hair wet with the mixture for 1 hour.


Is there any way to lighten using cinnamon and NOT honey? I've got a ton of cinnamon, but it's hard for me to find raw, natural honey where I live.

mktmgt
June 1st, 2010, 02:39 AM
Try 2 tablespoons honey, up to 2 tablespoons ground cinnamon or cardamom, 1 tablespoon evoo and 12 tablespoons distilled water. Apply to hair and keep the hair wet with the mixture for 1 hour.
Wow thanks ktani :p, I tried your mixture without the spices (too hard to wash out :rolleyes:) and there was definitely a significant change, or at least I think there was :D. I want to do this again. Do you know what the results might pertain to if I were to sleep with the mixture? I appreciate your help haha. :)

ktani
June 1st, 2010, 07:43 AM
Is there any way to lighten using cinnamon and NOT honey? I've got a ton of cinnamon, but it's hard for me to find raw, natural honey where I live.

You do not need raw honey. Grocery store honey has been reported to work just as well.

ktani
June 1st, 2010, 07:47 AM
Wow thanks ktani :p, I tried your mixture without the spices (too hard to wash out :rolleyes:) and there was definately a significant change, or at least I think there was :D. I want to do this again. Do you know what the results might pertain to if I were to sleep with the mixture? I appreciate your help haha. :)

You are most welcome!

Some people like to leave the recipies on the hair for a few hours but overnight is not necessary in my opinion. You can try that though. I cannot predict results. However, if you have good results now, you may have better results with leaving a treatment on longer. Different honeys have a different peak and decline rate for the peroxide level they produce.

countryhopper
June 1st, 2010, 08:00 AM
Different honeys have a different peak and decline rate for the peroxide level they produce.


Which is better? dark or light?

ktani
June 1st, 2010, 08:02 AM
Which is better? dark or light?

Here you go, http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=295895&postcount=2370.

mktmgt
June 2nd, 2010, 01:46 AM
You are most welcome!

Some people like to leave the recipies on the hair for a few hours but overnight is not necessary in my opinion. You can try that though. I cannot predict results. However, if you have good results now, you may have better results with leaving a treatment on longer. Different honeys have a different peak and decline rate for the peroxide level they produce.
Okie dokie :) thank you for sharing your knowledge of honey with me! :D I will give it a try and post the results next time I wash my hair. :)

ktani
June 2nd, 2010, 07:05 AM
Okie dokie :) thank you for sharing your knowledge of honey with me! :D hehe. I will give it a try and post the results next time I was my hair hehe :)

My pleasure!

indigonight
June 8th, 2010, 10:22 AM
I'm a hendigo head but recently its just been too dark to look good what with my pale complexion. have tried honey lightening but after 4 treatments of 3 hours there was barely any change at all, just perhaps a slightly redder reflect but this was only at my roots which are less dyed.
So in a bid to see what else will lighten my hair, on my head I have GBP condish with 1/4 cup water, a few squirts of honey and 2 tbsp of cinnamon. Will wear this for 5-6 hours if I can bear it! I cannot stand wearing stuff on my head for long= headache.

ktani
June 8th, 2010, 10:37 AM
I'm a hendigo head but recently its just been too dark to look good what with my pale complexion. have tried honey lightening but after 4 treatments of 3 hours there was barely any change at all, just perhaps a slightly redder reflect but this was only at my roots which are less dyed.
So in a bid to see what else will lighten my hair, on my head I have GBP condish with 1/4 cup water, a few squirts of honey and 2 tbsp of cinnamon. Will wear this for 5-6 hours if I can bear it! I cannot stand wearing stuff on my head for long= headache.

Depending on the process (2 step henndigo) and the hair, henndigo can be a challenge to lighten. Good luck with your latest experiment. Sometimes it is the honey. Not all are equal to the task in terms of peroxide levels.

indigonight
June 9th, 2010, 10:01 AM
The only thing that happened was that my reflects are now a little redder on the hendigo hair however it is barely perceptible without looking at my hair in bright light or sunshine.
So many honey and cinnamon treatments is also drying out my hair so I am going to give it a rest.

Conclusion: ladies if you hendigo, remember it is permanent so if you arrive at a colour you like, dont keep on hendigoing on top as it will get darker!

ktani
June 9th, 2010, 12:13 PM
The only thing that happened was that my reflects are now a little redder on the hendigo hair however it is barely perceptible without looking at my hair in bright light or sunshine.
So many honey and cinnamon treatments is also drying out my hair so I am going to give it a rest.

Conclusion: ladies if you hendigo, remember it is permanent so if you arrive at a colour you like, dont keep on hendigoing on top as it will get darker!

Shampooing should help with the dryness from the honey treatments which is no doubt honey residue. I am sorry that you did not get the lightening you hoped for.

indigonight
June 9th, 2010, 02:17 PM
Ktani!
Actually today for whatever reason I can see the effects of the honey lightening cinnamon treatment in conditioner in my hair!!! especially since I did not have enough mixture and some hair got more saturated than other hair and there is definitely a difference. I think after multiple applications something is starting to happen and some of the colour is beginning to lift. The black definitely looks a very dark ash brown in some areas.
What is strange is that the colour is leaning towards a cold ashy color (cold does not suit me so I do hope it will lift to warmer tones). Indeed much like the ashy brown colour of the cinnamon I used whereas towards my hennaed roots the colour is more red. I am wondering how further treatments would affect the colour and in future I would only do the length as now there is a definite mismatch.

Anyhow I am going to give it a rest for a while, it might be the cinnamon, but despite having condish with honey, cinnamon and egg on my head yesterday for 4 hours, my hair is incredibly dry, crackly and I had a few splits this morning, especially the ends are unhappy and I don't want to damage my tresses. I put 4 drops of oil on my hair this morning and it soaked it straight up.

My hair needs some TLC before I experiment any further. My other avenue is sun-in although I'd need to strand test as peroxide on indigo = green in general.
I am wondering whether it would be any more drying than the cinnamon-honey would be.

ktani
June 9th, 2010, 02:46 PM
Ktani!
Actually today for whatever reason I can see the effects of the honey lightening cinnamon treatment in conditioner in my hair!!! especially since I did not have enough mixture and some hair got more saturated than other hair and there is definitely a difference. I think after multiple applications something is starting to happen and some of the colour is beginning to lift. The black definitely looks a very dark ash brown in some areas.
What is strange is that the colour is leaning towards a cold ashy color (cold does not suit me so I do hope it will lift to warmer tones). Indeed much like the ashy brown colour of the cinnamon I used whereas towards my hennaed roots the colour is more red. I am wondering how further treatments would affect the colour and in future I would only do the length as now there is a definite mismatch.

Anyhow I am going to give it a rest for a while, it might be the cinnamon, but despite having condish with honey, cinnamon and egg on my head yesterday for 4 hours, my hair is incredibly dry, crackly and I had a few splits this morning, especially the ends are unhappy and I don't want to damage my tresses. I put 4 drops of oil on my hair this morning and it soaked it straight up.

My hair needs some TLC before I experiment any further. My other avenue is sun-in although I'd need to strand test as peroxide on indigo = green in general.
I am wondering whether it would be any more drying than the cinnamon-honey would be.

Egg coats the hair. On top of honey residue not the greatest of ideas.

I am glad that you can see some lightening though. I agree that you should give your hair a rest for now. If you continue with honey lightening, try a different honey and a different cinnamon or skip the cinnamon altogether, patch test ground cardamom and try that. It has a higher peroxide value than cinnamon and a lower rate of reprorted sensitivities and is reported to wash out of the hair more easily than ground cinnamon. McCormick ground cardamom is relatively inespensive.

dropinthebucket
June 9th, 2010, 03:45 PM
Ok, just shelled out the 20 bucks for Manuka honey (at my local health food store) and some Indonesian cinnamon! Hope this works over my hendigo! :0 Have done one application so far, and I can't tell if it's lightening - but maybe after a second or third app, I'll see something! hope, hope, hope ..... !! indigonight, maybe i'll try the honey and cinammon in condish thing if you are getting lightening with it - that sounds promising!

I wonder if anyone has tried to just lighten areas of their hair with the honey? My hendigo is a 2-step, but the damaged ends have let go of a lot of the indigo, and are very orange compared to the hair from the ears up - that hair is pretty dark. I've been trying to keep the honey just on the scalp and first few inches, but it's hard to do! :)

Thanks again ktani for all this info.! If I have good success, I'll post pics. :)

ktani
June 9th, 2010, 03:49 PM
Ok, just shelled out the 20 bucks for Manuka honey (at my local health food store) and some Indonesian cinnamon! Hope this works over my hendigo! :0 Have done one application so far, and I can't tell if it's lightening - but maybe after a second or third app, I'll see something! hope, hope, hope ..... !! indigonight, maybe i'll try the honey and cinammon in condish thing if you are getting lightening with it - that sounds promising!

I wonder if anyone has tried to just lighten areas of their hair with the honey? My hendigo is a 2-step, but the damaged ends have let go of a lot of the indigo, and are very orange compared to the hair from the ears up - that hair is pretty dark. I've been trying to keep the honey just on the scalp and first few inches, but it's hard to do! :)

Thanks again ktani for all this info.! If I have good success, I'll post pics. :)

Good luck with the new honey but you did not have to spend that kind of money or buy Manuka honey. Be patient. Cheap honey works just as well but it is choosing the right one. That is why I created the Successful Honeys List. Indonesian cinnamon has been reported to give an ash tone of its own. I hope it works for you.

Lark
June 13th, 2010, 12:35 PM
After reading this thread the first time afew weeks ago I decided to try it out myself. First time around I didn't do enough reaserch and used a metal pan to boil everything ::doah:: so this week I did another batch in a ceramic dish.
I put 10 tbs of cinnamon powder in about 1/4 cup warm water to soak and got this
<a href="http://s919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/LarksCreations/?action=view&current=IMG00272-20100613-13121.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/LarksCreations/IMG00272-20100613-13121.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
Really weird how it soaks into a nice gouey slime, lol.
I put 1 tbs of this into about 2 cups of chamomile tea and use it as a rinse in the shower after my wash. Left it on for afew min then condishioned and rinsed. Going to see what happens after doing this once a week for a while. My goal is to try and lession how noticeable my roots are, we will see.

Lark
June 13th, 2010, 12:36 PM
http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/LarksCreations/IMG00271-20100613-13122.jpg

grrrr

Beatrice
June 13th, 2010, 01:12 PM
Is it an indication of LHC mind-warping that I look at that brown cinnamon goo and think, "Mmm, yummy! I'd love to get some of that on my hair!" :D

Bellatrix
June 13th, 2010, 01:35 PM
Does anyone know if pasteurized honey is better or worse than unpasteurized? Or like, in theory? My local Safeway carries both...

beautiful sound
July 17th, 2010, 12:31 PM
I'm very excited about this; I never would have expected cinnamon could do this to hair. Aside from Henna once years ago, I've always used box stuff. But I'm looking forward to this one.

I actually added some cinnamon to my conditioner last night; I'm at the end of the bottle, so why not? Fortunately, I had no trouble getting the cinnamon out of my hair (though maybe I didn't use as much as recommended; I don't know; I just opened the container and dumped some in the bottle :D), and now my hair smells sort of sweet. Even if my hair doesn't lighten, I'll keep using it for the lovely scent :)

Hylia
July 17th, 2010, 08:43 PM
I actually tried this a couple of days ago. I used a mixture of ground cinnamon, honey and water and I did not see any significant change. But I can see how this mixture could lighten hair after several uses. I was just a bit discouraged because the cinnamon seems to burn my skin. I had a huge rash on the side of my face. But I guess everyone is different, I do have sensitive skin.

Qwackie
August 21st, 2010, 08:13 PM
I just started doing this yesterday. It hasn't gotten much lighter, but it smells heavenly~

ktani
August 21st, 2010, 08:33 PM
Does anyone know if pasteurized honey is better or worse than unpasteurized? Or like, in theory? My local Safeway carries both...

Both can work equally well, based on reports in the Honey thread (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=148). It depends on the honey, the water, the recipe and the method used.

christine1989
August 21st, 2010, 09:03 PM
I had one of those moments when I joined LHC. I thought that I had "discovered" CO washing. I felt like a real innovator until I realized how popular it already was :(.

CherrySilver
August 21st, 2010, 10:48 PM
Is it an indication of LHC mind-warping that I look at that brown cinnamon goo and think, "Mmm, yummy! I'd love to get some of that on my hair!" :D

No, I want to eat it!

shelly1212
October 2nd, 2010, 02:10 AM
Hi!
how much did you put in the water? can you please tell me how much cinnamon oil in how much water? and how often did you spray this on your hair? did you wet all your hair with it? and did you do it every day? help! :))

i am trying to lighten my hair with cinnamon too!
thanks :)

hanne jensen
October 3rd, 2010, 04:17 PM
I've been using cinnamon in my CO's since June. My hair is no lighter, but my scalp just loves it! The cinnamon de-gunks my scalp and I think that the warming effects have helped my hair growth. My hair has grown 4 cm this summer where I usually completely stall in the summer months.

clkingtx
October 4th, 2010, 01:01 AM
Wow, who would have thought cinnamon would do that. If it is a cassia plant also, I wonder if it would strengthen hair like hennas?

ghilliegirl_an
January 1st, 2011, 10:04 PM
I have medium brown hair with slight golden tones at the roots and reddish tints at the ends(from red semipermanent hairdye a few months ago), I want to know if the cinnamon would lighten my hair to a more reddish color or a more goldish color 'cause I don't want the top of my hair any blonder or it won't match the ends, I really want to try this 'cause I've been dying to try henna but I wanted that bright fiery red color that I wouldn't get on my natural hair. So if anyone has a similar hair color and has tried this did it give your hair reddish tints or more golden tints?

Finchen
January 2nd, 2011, 10:15 PM
ghilliegirl_an, I think the best would be to make a strand test first, to see which color (if any) you will get from the cinnamon.
I would recommend to mix cinnamon with water, let it sit for a few hours, then filter it and only then apply it to your hair. As it can be hard to remove the cinnamon crumbs from the hair.

However make a patch test first. Cinnamon can irritate the skin (scalp) very much.

ktani
January 2nd, 2011, 10:21 PM
Even with patch testing it is the amount of cinnamon used that has been the problem from both reports here and in the Honey thread. The cinnamon does not need to sit in water for a few hours. 1 hour should be fine. Try a tablesoon or less to 12 tablespoons of water, after patch testing.

Arya
January 3rd, 2011, 03:19 PM
So which lightens faster, honey or cinnamon? it's a real shame there aren't more pictures of both taken in similar light..From the pictures I've seen of both, it looks like cinnamon has more dramatic results? I looked through the honey thread, and honestly I couldn't tell the difference. I can't help but be reminded of the time we did a ritual as teenage girls and 'dyed' our hair with either magic or hallucinations or some combo of both.

ktani
January 3rd, 2011, 03:21 PM
So which lightens faster, honey or cinnamon? it's a real shame there aren't more pictures of both taken in similar light..From the pictures I've seen of both, it looks like cinnamon has more dramatic results? I looked through the honey thread, and honestly I couldn't tell the difference. I can't help but be reminded of the time we did a ritual as teenage girls and 'dyed' our hair with either magic or hallucinations or some combo of both.

Honey. It has much higher peroxide value unless the honey has none at all. Some do not.

Cardamom has a higher one for a spice than cinnamon and is not as much of an irritant and it washes out of the hair easier. It can still be a sensitizer though.

One needs to be careful with both spices and not use too much, even after patch testing.

I do not know what pictures you looked at. Any pictures in this thread are far from helpful. Lighting is a problem in most pictures.

This is not a slight difference and it is not the only one, http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=198570&postcount=1767.

Many people report verbally as well and they are not hallucinating, in my opinion. They often also report what others around them have said too, about their hair colour change.

There would not have been 5 Honey threads if honey could not lighten hair. The first one was started after reports on these boards of honey accidentally lightening hair, to determine the best way to do it deliberately.

If you deny credibility to verbal reports here, then any report on anything including anything you report can be subject to the same scrutiny.

Arya
January 3rd, 2011, 03:43 PM
Honey. It has much higher peroxide value unless the honey has none at all. Some do not.

Cardamom has a higher one for a spice than cinnamon and is not as much of an irritant and it washes out of the hair easier. It can still be a sensitizer though.

One needs to be careful with both spices and not use too much, even after patch testing.

I do not know what pictures you looked at. Any pictures in this thread are far from helpful. Lighting is a problem in most pictures.

This is not a slight difference and it is not the only one, http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=198570&postcount=1767.

I looked at all the comparison pictures posted in the honey thread. I did see the one you posted, but also noticed the definite golden skin tone in the picture on the right..definitely lighting is a problem here. The skin on the left and right are totally different colours, so how is it possible to judge the change in hair colour? Are there any white balanced pictures taken in the same light of before and after?

ktani
January 3rd, 2011, 03:50 PM
I looked at all the comparison pictures posted in the honey thread. I did see the one you posted, but also noticed the definite golden skin tone in the picture on the right..definitely lighting is a problem here. The skin on the left and right are totally different colours, so how is it possible to judge the change in hair colour? Are there any white balanced pictures taken in the same light of before and after?

There are a number of fairly good pictures. Even when people went out of their way to match all conditons and the difference was obvious, people have still said the same things you have.

Either you believe the reports or not. There are many more people than you and other detractors to contradict you. I am one of them.

Arya
January 3rd, 2011, 04:07 PM
There are a number of fairly good pictures. Even when people went out of their way to match all conditons and the difference was obvious, people have still said the same things you have.

Either you believe the reports or not. There are many more people than you and other detractors to contradict you. I am one of them.

I'm not trying to be contradictory, I'm just making an observation. If were talking science and chemistry, shouldn't a semi-scientific method be used? I would love to see pictures in similar light showing a dramatic change...but I honestly haven't seen any. You said that lighting is a problem in most pictures, and then linked a picture with very dramatic lighting differences. Not trying to say it doesn't work, or 'debunk' anything, just saying I haven't seen any evidence that it dramatically lightens hair. The only picture I can see that has any difference would be this one. http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=1045670&postcount=4295
but again, her skin is lighter in the after picture, so real tonal difference is hard to judge.

They're just observations I'm making, and yes, with good reason. If were talking about tones and colour change, any decent photographer will tell you that judging colour change requires certain lighting conditions and balancing. I'm also a little offended that you think I'm trying to 'detract' from you, and are taking some sort of moral stand against me, when all I've given is my opinion, which is hardly baseless.

ktani
January 3rd, 2011, 04:21 PM
I'm not trying to be contradictory, I'm just making an observation. If were talking science and chemistry, shouldn't a semi-scientific method be used? I would love to see pictures in similar light showing a dramatic change...but I honestly haven't seen any. You said that lighting is a problem in most pictures, and then linked a picture with very dramatic lighting differences. Not trying to say it doesn't work, or 'debunk' anything, just saying I haven't seen any evidence that it dramatically lightens hair. The only picture I can see that has any difference would be this one. http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=1045670&postcount=4295
but again, her skin is lighter in the after picture, so real tonal difference is hard to judge.

They're just observations I'm making, and yes, with good reason. If were talking about tones and colour change, any decent photographer will tell you that judging colour change requires certain lighting conditions and balancing. I'm also a little offended that you think I'm trying to 'detract' from you, and are taking some sort of moral stand against me, when all I've given is my opinion, which is hardly baseless.

I just found the hallucinations comment a little unusual for an observation as if you were mocking the entire thing.

So, we have had a misunderstanding. That happens. I was not taking a moral tone.

None of the experiments are controlled here in threads like the Honey thread any more than the lighting in many cases.

That is why I do not request photographs. When I have, the ability of some people to take ones that would fit what you require which in a contolled environment would be necessary are not going to happen.

I rely on what people tell me.

Arya
January 3rd, 2011, 05:29 PM
I just found the hallucinations comment a little unusual for an observation as if you were mocking the entire thing.

So, we have had a misunderstanding. That happens. I was not taking a moral tone.

None of the experiments are controlled here in threads like the Honey thread any more than the lighting in many cases.

That is why I do not request photographs. When I have, the ability of some people to take ones that would fit what you require which in a contolled environment would be necessary are not going to happen.

I rely on what people tell me.


No, I actually wasn't being sarcastic. I'm an anthro major, so we take into account things like hallucinations/placebo effects, and the potential effect of something cultural like magic (isn't thinking that cheering for a team can really affect their performance somewhat like magic?).
I'm interested in both forms, but I feel like I can't tell my mum to go out and buy expensive herbs/manuka honey if it's so subtle you can't really tell in pictures.

The other thing is, it's not really that hard to take a picture with controlled lighting. For instance, taking a picture at night standing under the same light, with the same camera settings is usually enough. I'm far from a professional photographer, but using the colour balance tools available on most digital cameras and photoshop isn't difficult to do, either.

ktani
January 3rd, 2011, 05:47 PM
No, I actually wasn't being sarcastic. I'm an anthro major, so we take into account things like hallucinations/placebo effects, and the potential effect of something cultural like magic (isn't thinking that cheering for a team can really affect their performance somewhat like magic?).
I'm interested in both forms, but I feel like I can't tell my mum to go out and buy expensive herbs/manuka honey if it's so subtle you can't really tell in pictures.

The other thing is, it's not really that hard to take a picture with controlled lighting. For instance, taking a picture at night standing under the same light, with the same camera settings is usually enough. I'm far from a professional photographer, but using the colour balance tools available on most digital cameras and photoshop isn't difficult to do, either

And I was not moralizing, lol.

I get where you are coming from now.

That has actually been addressed in the Honey thread, people wanting to believe that the colour has changed and doubting what they think is one.

That is why I suggest that they ask those around them for an opinion, although when a result is more than subtle, others in real life notice and say something without prompting, from reports.

I do not know where the manuka expensive honey thing keeps coming from.

It has never been the case in 5 Honey threads that expensive or raw honey is needed to lighten hair colour.

It was considered at first way back that raw honey was better or needed. That is not the case at all. Cheap pasteurized honey has been reported to work just as well.

Jarrah honey can be expensive and has a very high peroxide level. I have posted many times that while manuka honey can be great that it is not necessary for honey lightening.

If you read the first post of the Honey thread, there are posts on choosing a honey. There are honeys to avoid and some to look for that should work better, as well as a list of reported successful ones.

gizelle
January 3rd, 2011, 08:52 PM
I just tried this. I'm not very brave, and have been wanting to do something crazy for a while. So, to moderate myself, I have been playing with my hair. I don't have any pictures because I broke my camera trying to take some (darn gravity).

What I did:
I took the cat's water bowl and emptied it. Then I added two big squirts of cone free conditioner (about 1/3 cup) then I added about a tablespoon of honey. Then about two tablespoons of ground cinnamon (the kind in the US which is really cassia). I put it on my hair, plopped that into a shower cap and let it sit for about 25 mins. Then I rinsed for about 5 as the grounds were hard to get out of my hair. I then washed with my sls shampoo and let my coney conditioner sit for 10 mins.

Anyway, my hair is brown, not chocolate or chestnut or whiskey, just brown that sometimes shows gold or red highlights. I've always loved those highlights and loved my hair. I just wanted to try something different, so I tried to lighten it just a bit to bring out those highlights more.

I had a success. It is a very slight difference which is exactly what I wanted. My hair is smoother, but not softer and the ends are dry, so I am going to oil them. It is really shiny, too. The observed color difference may have a lot to do with the shininess.

Now, this is a very unscientific observation and have had no one as of yet comment upon it. I have only asked my dog (he thinks I am beautiful, but noticed no difference, as he is colorblind). Even if it is all in my head, I am happy. And loving my hair. And wanting to share my happiness and thank you all for this thread.

ktani
January 4th, 2011, 08:58 AM
I just tried this. I'm not very brave, and have been wanting to do something crazy for a while. So, to moderate myself, I have been playing with my hair. I don't have any pictures because I broke my camera trying to take some (darn gravity).

What I did:
I took the cat's water bowl and emptied it. Then I added two big squirts of cone free conditioner (about 1/3 cup) then I added about a tablespoon of honey. Then about two tablespoons of ground cinnamon (the kind in the US which is really cassia). I put it on my hair, plopped that into a shower cap and let it sit for about 25 mins. Then I rinsed for about 5 as the grounds were hard to get out of my hair. I then washed with my sls shampoo and let my coney conditioner sit for 10 mins.

Anyway, my hair is brown, not chocolate or chestnut or whiskey, just brown that sometimes shows gold or red highlights. I've always loved those highlights and loved my hair. I just wanted to try something different, so I tried to lighten it just a bit to bring out those highlights more.

I had a success. It is a very slight difference which is exactly what I wanted. My hair is smoother, but not softer and the ends are dry, so I am going to oil them. It is really shiny, too. The observed color difference may have a lot to do with the shininess.

Now, this is a very unscientific observation and have had no one as of yet comment upon it. I have only asked my dog (he thinks I am beautiful, but noticed no difference, as he is colorblind). Even if it is all in my head, I am happy. And loving my hair. And wanting to share my happiness and thank you all for this thread.

If your ends are dry from the treatment, oiling will not help. You need to shampoo. Honey residue is best removed with shampoo, based on reports in the Honey thread.

redheadlynn
January 4th, 2011, 10:10 AM
So I had another "Holy Moly" moment the other day. I wasn't sure if it was worth sharing, but I figured that's exactly what I said about the original Monistat thread and look how that one turned out.

Anyhow, I had been developing my hobby in perfumed hair misters, and blending them with essential oils. My favorite has been the one made with cinnamon oil, simply because it smells sweet, smell lasts forever, and you only need a little bit to get a lot of bang.

After a while, with the cinnamon mister, my hair began to feel a little crunchy, not dried out but just stiff (I think I had been overzealous in my use of the mister, I admit). I switched to just putting ground cinnamon in my conditioner to get the same smell. It rinsed out well, and left a wonderful aroma, I was happy.

Well, let's just say that two and a half months later, my very dark brown hair is looking quite a bit more "golden" these days. People keep pointing out how I have "dyed my hair". And of course I haven't. But it certainly has jumped 3 or 4 shades lighter. I have nothing else in which to attribute the change in color, I haven't changed my routine. I use the same water, I use all my same products, I am very sure it was the cinnamon that did it.

Sure enough, when I googled "cinnamon+hair+lighten", lo and behold, there are other beauty websites that have already dallied with this. *Slapping my forehead* And here I was thinking, "Oh look at this new thing I'm doing to fragrance my hair"... and all this time, people were doing it to naturally bleach their hair.

So, I guess if anybody is looking for an alternative way to bleach his/her hair color gradually, this might be an option besides industrial peroxide.

This is really interesting!! Thanks! :) Sorry you got unwanted lightening effects.

AnnaJamila
January 4th, 2011, 10:34 AM
O.o I was literally just talking to a friend about natural lightening... I have to remember this!!!