MORE gentle ideas for fine hair?

[Ponytale]

OK, I have changed many routines these past two years, and I still have too much breakage to grow my hair very fast.

What I do:
-Only use a comb--and a George Michael seemless comb at that.
-Wash hair every-other day with shampoo bars (and a once a week honey or shampoo with no SDS to clarify).
-Bun every night.
-Trims every 10 weeks or when snarly
-Oil lightly
-Updos almost every day
-Only use Ficcares or Baerries for updos
-Braid when riding (horse)

What am I missing?

Only finger combing?
Less washes?

HELP!

[Jeni]

Are you growing out previous damage? Does your hair feel dry? Maybe do more DTs? What kind of conditioner do you use?

[SpecialKitty]

Slow hair growth is usually hereditary. I guess you could wash less often, and maybe stop trimming as frequently....but it sounds like you're doing everything right to me.

[MsBubbles]

I have old highlight damage on the ends and am maintaining ad nauseam to get rid of it. In spite of my flat hair that looks spray-painted onto my scalp by the 2nd day, I had to drop washing every day. It is really helping my ends. They feel nice and soft now on the 2nd day, whereas washing every day left them strawlike.

[Delila]

The main thing for me, is to trim it myself. Stylists ALWAYS want to cut in layers.

Random thoughts:

I also wonder about your conditioning habits??? Do you deep condition?

Have you tried a quick catnip rinse?

Have you tried using dilute shampoo to wash, if you find you need to wash more often?

What do you do with your hair after you wash it? If you wrap it up in a towel, make sure not to twist the towel too tightly, to minimize breakage. I use a microfiber towel, and tend to just let my hair rest in a towel for a few minutes, then I take the towel down, flip it over and wrap it again with the dry side towards my hair, for another few minutes. Then I take it down and let it air dry without manipulating it further. The towel routine seems to soak out a lot of the extra water so it dries a bit more slowly.

In my case, my scalp gets quite oily, very quickly, so I minimize the amount of conditioner I let get near my scalp, but my length does well when I condition it regularly.

Lately I've been using Biolage's Detangling Solution after I shampoo my scalp.

My scalp seemed not to mind when I did the quick catnip rinses, and my length seemed to like the slight bit of oil, though oils usually are too much for me. (To make a catnip tea: add 1/2 tsp catnip to ten ounces boiling water, let it cool, strain and pour through hair, then rinse. )

I do find that I have breakage issues, pretty much no matter what, from things like pushing my sunglasses up on my head, wearing updos that are too tight and put too much tension on my hair, wearing a scarf that's too tight ... , but over time, I've found that my braid is getting thicker along it's length.

You don't specifically mention it, so I will: When detangling, work from the tips of the hair, up to the scalp, working slowly and carefully. You may already do this, but it's a good thing to remember.

I mostly finger comb, and try to make sure my hands are scrupulously clean (no lotion, no conditioner, no oils) whenever I touch my hair. It helps keep my hair from becoming too oily too fast.

Wow, do I ramble. Well, I hope this is helpful.

[cobblersmaid]

I might try washing less. Also, do you use conditioner? Conditioner is very important for me, so I might start if you are not already. Have you tried silk pillow cases? Some people think those help.

[Ponytale]

I have not been using conditioner because it weights down my hair, but I just picked up some Vitapro Fusion Leave in by Giovanni, and it seems like a go.

I am not sure if I am growing out damage from the bad highlights of ~4 years ago, but I do notice my hair texture has changed, and my "straight" hair has picked up a slight wave down to the bra-strap. I am starting to wonder if I am going through something hormonal (for no apparent reason I can see).

[Ursula]

You say you trim when snarly. Have you tried doing any clarifying washes? Something with a bit more power than non-sulfate shampoo - perhaps something with ALS, which cleanses more thoroughly and rinses very well. If you're getting buildup that your normal clarifying can't handle, a somewhat more clarifying clarifying might address the problem.

Also, as Delila mentioned, do you self-trim or are you going to a stylist? It may just be that your trims are frequent enough, or significant enough, to be taking off most of your growth.

[cobblersmaid]

Clarifying is a good idea. Using sulfates or baking soda, then deep conditioning. Also how is protein for your hair? Bad, good?

[Ponytale]

Delila~

I don't deep condition I guess. The honey mix is as close as I do, and if that is a mild peroxide, maybe it is hurting the conditioning treatment at the same time. I will try it (and find some catnip). Maybe the fact the waves are only half way down is tell tale that I need to condition.

I do comb right out of a wash, I find if it dries at all, the tangles are harder to get out--but maybe that is where some of the breakage could be coming from. Maybe I break it off more doing this even though it seems "easier".

Cobblersmaid--I have not used any proteins, so I don't know.

Thank all of you for ideas!

[SimplyLonghair]

I would say that you have fine hair and fine hair is fragile. But you could just be trimming off your growth. You say that you notice that you now have waves to bsl, that is where your NEW hair is and the OLDER hair is dryer and less wavy. Moisture is a wavy hairs friend, but you do have to do it very carefully. I would do the SMT and such and just think lace, every time you handle your hair. But be patient, it could just be a stall in growth. Long hair happens while you are doing something else, LOL:rolleyes:

[Jeni]

I would play around with different things see what works, trying 1 thing at a time of course. I have the same hair type as you and I HAVE to condition. I actually use cones and don't find them too heavy for me but I know a lot of people don't like them which is fine.

I have been meaning to try catnip rinses since I've heard such good things about them. If you try it you'll have to report back and tell us if it helped.

You could try doing an SMT, I find that helps my hair when it is feeling out of whack from doing cassia/henna. I sub oils for aloe since my hair seems to hate aloe, LOVES honey though.

I have never figured out the whole need protein/have too much protein thing but it might be worth trying to figure it out.

Clarifying with a sulfate or baking soda (never tried it) might be a good idea. I know people recommend you clarify and then examine your hair to figure out the issues.

[MsBubbles]

Right, I will echo the silk/satin pillowcase, and catnip rinses. I also echo what was said about fine hair needing conditioner. I absolutely cannot do without conditioner. I use Aubrey Organics. My hair would be like cotton candy after washing without conditioner.

Another thing: Do you use something really loose to fasten your braid? I had a problem with the elastic things and have switched to those barrettes that look like a piece of old sweatshirt (really floppy and loose).

[Jeni]

Another thing: Do you use something really loose to fasten your braid? I had a problem with the elastic things and have switched to those barrettes that look like a piece of old sweatshirt (really floppy and loose).

Huh? :confused: I can't for the life of me imagine a barrette that is floppy and loose. How does it hold your hair?

[chrissy-b]

I have mostly fine hair (with some M underneath) and I can't really go without conditioning at least the ends. Many people have had luck with catnip and you could try that instead of conditioner as it isn't heavy.

I had a similar problem with my ends and I followed the following regimen: Clarify, condition and oil the ends. Instead of washing every other day, CO every other day and just deal with the fact that your hair is going to be flat for a while. After every CO follow with oils on the ends. Mist and oil on the other days. Wear your hair in a protective updo every day.

I did this for about a week and my ends were no longer dry. I am still growing out some chemical damage and although I have some breakage and a few splits, I rarely have to do anything extra anymore. When they do feel a bit dry I do a deep moisture treatment followed by a heavy oiling and my hair is soft again.

[maskedrose]

Conditioning is a MUST for me. I used to think that conditioner weighed down my hair too, but since discovering LHC over a year ago, I've switched over to CO exclusively. And you know what? My hair has more body than it ever has before. CO just has to be done right - lots (and lots and lots) of cheap, runny conditioner massaged thoroughly into the scalp and length, left on for 5-10 minutes, and rinsed thoroughly out. Winter has been particularily hard on my hair this year, so I've also started using a heavier (still cone free) conditioner after my "cleansing" conditioner. My hair has so much more slip and shine now - it's fantastic!

I've also had a problem with elastics breaking my braid tassle - there's a clear line of broken hairs where I usually secure my braid, so now I secure it with a scrunchy or with a silk scarf.

Seriously though - at least play around with conditioners. If your worried about it weighing your hair down, try Suave or VO5, as they are pretty light. Also, if you wear your hair up most of the time, it doesn't really matter if it's "weighed down", right? Better to slather it with conditioner when it's up so the ends get a boost of moisture.

[Calanthe]

Yes, conditioner is your friend - if you feel it weighs your hair down, try to slather it on from your ears downward. It made a huge difference for me, doing it that way - soft and nice ends and no "flat" crown anymore.

I saw that you use shampoo bars - how do you lather? On your hair or do you lather the bar in your hand and then wash your hair? I find that lathering directly on your head/hair with a poo bar is a lot of mechanical handling and stress on the hair which leads to breakage and tangling (at least on my head it does). So I lather the bar in my hands and then wash scalp and hair. I have a lot less beakage and tangling now.

[Guenever]

I'd look at your daily styles - and maybe add a few buns that don't necassarily require twisting! just for variation.

Twisting too firmly may of course cause kinks and breakage, so I'm a huge fan of non-twisted buns/knots! :D mainly held with sticks or small jaw clips.
Here are a few:
- the KarenLynn knot: http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=30
- Wrapped bun: http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=31
- Twitch's double-looped knot: http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=32

HTH :)

[Melisande]

Deep oilings with coconut or olive as pre-wash treatment really help me. If you find it hard to wash out oil, mix the oil with conditioner. My dry ends look much better and stronger since I do that. Catnip rinses are very helpful, too.

[Ponytale]

Thanks. It seems conditioner is a must--so I will try it again.

Dumb question--protein was mentioned, but I do not know what a protein treatment is! There is some wheat protein in my new conditioner by Giovanni, but it can not be that simple--what am I missing?

[maskedrose]

If you're looking for a protein treatment, per se, then something like Henna n' Placenta is something that is talked about a lot on the boards. Many conditioners have protein in them, such as the wheat protein in your Giovanni. A lot of people can't put any protein on their hair at all, and others (like me) use it every once and a while with great results.

Another thing I thought I'd mention - I used to think that the antidote for flat hair was less conditioner, but I've found over the years that the opposite is actually true. Even when I was S&Cing, I found that if I slathered on the conditioner (from roots to tips, in my case, focusing on the ends), let it sit for a few minutes, then rinsed really really well, my hair had lots of volume. Just something to experiment with!

[MsBubbles]

Huh? :confused: I can't for the life of me imagine a barrette that is floppy and loose. How does it hold your hair?

I know, I don't get it either. These (http://www.walmart.com/catalog/detail.gsp?image=http://i.walmartimages.com/i/p/00/07/41/08/49/0007410849760_500X500.jpg&product_id=10322958&iIndex=1&isVariant=false&corpCard=false&type=0) are the things I mean, nothing revolutionary on the hair accessories shelf. But I swear, every time I put one of these things loosely on to the end of my braid, or put several of them down my ponytail length I think 'there's no way that's gonna stay in'. But they stay there all night long, or out swinging in the wind if I go skate for an hour.

I guess it's possible that my velcro-ends are holding them in
place :p.

[Delila]

Some protein treatments are more intense than others, and you need to be sure to follow them with something deeply moisturising.

I use Nexxus Emergencee followed by Paul Mitchell's Super Charged Moisturizer, Roux Porosity control and a light bit of oil, usually for me VO5's hot oil treatment.

I do each for about 20 minutes, with heat, rinsing thoroughly between treatments, then end it all with the hot oil, that's only in for about a minute.

[girlcat36]

My hair is fine, and hard to grow. These are the things that have helped me most.

Silk pillowcase--a must!

Clarifying----I never used to do this because I thought it was too harsh for my fragile hair. I now believe that build-up is far more damaging than clarifying.

Overnight oiling with coconut----I used to avoid coconut oil, but now I realize that a deep oiling can be removed with conditioner(I used to think you had to use shampoo)

Microtrims---trimming is essential, but you risk losing all your new growth to over-zealous stylists. I trim my own hair, a teeny bit every few months.

[Jeni]

I know, I don't get it either. These (http://www.walmart.com/catalog/detail.gsp?image=http://i.walmartimages.com/i/p/00/07/41/08/49/0007410849760_500X500.jpg&product_id=10322958&iIndex=1&isVariant=false&corpCard=false&type=0) are the things I mean, nothing revolutionary on the hair accessories shelf. But I swear, every time I put one of these things loosely on to the end of my braid, or put several of them down my ponytail length I think 'there's no way that's gonna stay in'. But they stay there all night long, or out swinging in the wind if I go skate for an hour.

I guess it's possible that my velcro-ends are holding them in
place :p.

Ooooooh, ok. I call that a hair tie not a barrette. A barrette to me is something with a clip. I was completely lost as to how a clip was floppy and made of an old sweatshirt. I have some of those and LOVE them, they don't seem to dent my hair like some of the other ones. I use to find small hair ties made from what looked like pantyhose/tights, they were great! Haven't seen them lately though. :(

[fluffer]

Hi Ponytale,

I know I am in the minority here, but shampoo bars and oils suck out a lot of moisture from my hair. I suffered a lot of breakage while experimenting with them. I know the shampoo bars are full of oils.

Most shampoos and conditioners that you will find in the drugstore contain proteins -In fact, it is now very difficult to find ones WITHOUT proteins. I dont know why this is the case because protein is not meant to be used on a daily basis.

[MsBubbles]

Ooooooh, ok. I call that a hair tie not a barrette. A barrette to me is something with a clip. I was completely lost as to how a clip was floppy and made of an old sweatshirt. I have some of those and LOVE them, they don't seem to dent my hair like some of the other ones. I use to find small hair ties made from what looked like pantyhose/tights, they were great! Haven't seen them lately though. :(

Ah! Since American English isn't my native tongue, I probably got it wrong. The first time I heard someone call a hair thingy a barette here, I was flummoxed. I think I said "Why would I want a beret for a pony tail?".

[Jeni]

Ah! Since American English isn't my native tongue, I probably got it wrong. The first time I heard someone call a hair thingy a barette here, I was flummoxed. I think I said "Why would I want a beret for a pony tail?".

Ah OK. I saw you were in ATL and was confused but chalked it up to you being a crazy Georgian (:D) but as this isn't your first language that makes more sense.

fluffer- Your not the only one who's hair seems to hate oils. I can use oils in an SMT (instead of aloe which my hair seems to hate more then all the perms and blow dryers in the world). Oil just put on my hair, wet or dry just makes it feel awful. In order to get the hair to stop feeling dry and snarly I have to use a ton which equals grease ball hair.