'Cones bad for the environment?

[florenonite]

I found this (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090202.wtoxic0202/BNStory/Science/home) article in The Globe and Mail today and found it interesting. I'm currently trying to work out what the 'cones mentioned in it are (it says they're "called D4 and D5 by the silicone industry"). I just think it's interesting that this is the first I've heard of something like this being banned, not because it's bad for humans, but because of repurcussions for the environment. Makes me wonder how safe they are for humans, though :S

[neon-dream]

Wow, that is interesting!
I'm not sure how bad they will be for humans. Maybe it's because they don't break down in the environment or something?

[Copasetic]

I think even if something is safe for humans, one should still consider its environmental impact. Its part of the reason that I have gone SLS free. Everything we use goes down the drain at some point.

It would be interesting to find out which cones they are referring to. I don't understand why the author didn't include the normal name for the ingredients.

[florenonite]

I think even if something is safe for humans, one should still consider its environmental impact. Its part of the reason that I have gone SLS free. Everything we use goes down the drain at some point.

It would be interesting to find out which cones they are referring to. I don't understand why the author didn't include the normal name for the ingredients.

Oh, I agree, the environmental impact is important even if it's safe for humans. I was just surprised because it's the first time I've read of something being banned because it's bad for the environment when there's supposedly no adverse effects for humans.

I also thought the author would have given the normal name. Maybe they're trying to avoid panic or something?

[twilight]

i just found this (http://www.appliedfiltertechnology.com/page1222.asp):

Octamethylcyclotetrasiloxane, or "D4"
Hexamethylcyclotrisiloxane, or "D3"

"Nearly all digester and landfill gas contains one or more species of siloxanes, a chemical used extensively in industrial products such as lubricants and in personal care products like cosmetics, hair spray and deodorants. These siloxanes make their way into municipal wastewater and ultimately into the methane liberated in municipal digesters. Discarded cosmetics and cosmetic containers introduce siloxanes into the solid refuse that decomposes in landfills, producing methane that is contaminated. "

definitely something to think about...

[Copasetic]

I also thought the author would have given the normal name. Maybe they're trying to avoid panic or something?

Thats what I suspected as well. If you can dig up any info on what the names might be, be sure to post it :)

edit: I replied before I saw Twilight's post. Thanks!

[florenonite]

i just found this (http://www.appliedfiltertechnology.com/page1222.asp):

Octamethylcyclotetrasiloxane, or "D4"
Hexamethylcyclotrisiloxane, or "D3"

"Nearly all digester and landfill gas contains one or more species of siloxanes, a chemical used extensively in industrial products such as lubricants and in personal care products like cosmetics, hair spray and deodorants. These siloxanes make their way into municipal wastewater and ultimately into the methane liberated in municipal digesters. Discarded cosmetics and cosmetic containers introduce siloxanes into the solid refuse that decomposes in landfills, producing methane that is contaminated. "

definitely something to think about...

Wow, thanks for that!

[cobblersmaid]

It wouldn't suprise me.

[Auryn]

D4 = Cyclomethicone (Cyclo-2244)

D5 = Cyclomethicone (Cyclo-2245)

http://www.clearcoproducts.com/cyclomethicones.html

[Coriander]

Wow, I had no idea. Thanks for posting this.

*runs off to check labels*

[catfish]

From what I understand about silicone, whether it be a silicone baking muffin cup or silicone in liquid form is that because it is an inert chemical, it does not break down- biodegrade- but it can be recycled. That said, muffin cups are solid and are easy to collect and recycle, liquid silicone is almost impossible to collect and recycle and therefore ends up in lakes, rivers, and oceans. The silicone then ends up floating around in reefs and oyster beds and in fish. Solid silicon i.e.: sand is no problem obviously, but liquid silicone is another story. Research to determine the effects it has on aquatic life is fortunately gaining popularity.

The only silicone I buy is silicone I can recycle.;)

[Kuchen]

I think most hair products have an environmental impact :shrugs: Even Indian herbs and henna, if you're shipping them around the globe – bit of a carbon foot print on them.

[Copasetic]

I think most hair products have an environmental impact :shrugs: Even Indian herbs and henna, if you're shipping them around the globe – bit of a carbon foot print on them.

oh, definitely, but some are worse than others. I just think its important to be an informed consumer.

[darkwaves]

On the search I did yesterday, I found D5 listed as cyclopentasiloxane; and D4 as cyclotetrasiloxane -- which makes sense... (penta = 5; tetra = 4).

This will have some impact on high-cone products. Eventually.

[Sissy]

i just found this (http://www.appliedfiltertechnology.com/page1222.asp):

Octamethylcyclotetrasiloxane, or "D4"
Hexamethylcyclotrisiloxane, or "D3"

I don't think I've ever owned a product with those cones in it. Those names don't seem familiar at all... thankfully!

[WavyGirl]

I don't think I've ever owned a product with those cones in it. Those names don't seem familiar at all... thankfully!

I thought that silicones on cosmetic labels normally ended -one and so I don't tend to look much further than that. I know a lot of things have multiple names so just because we don't see it written that way on a label doesn't really mean it's not there. I admit I'm pretty clueless about this stuff which is why I prefer to use naturally occuring ingredients when I can. (Yes, I do know that natural doesn't necessarily mean better for me, but it normally does for the environment.)

[florenonite]

From what I understand about silicone, whether it be a silicone baking muffin cup or silicone in liquid form is that because it is an inert chemical, it does not break down- biodegrade- but it can be recycled. That said, muffin cups are solid and are easy to collect and recycle, liquid silicone is almost impossible to collect and recycle and therefore ends up in lakes, rivers, and oceans. The silicone then ends up floating around in reefs and oyster beds and in fish. Solid silicon i.e.: sand is no problem obviously, but liquid silicone is another story. Research to determine the effects it has on aquatic life is fortunately gaining popularity.

The only silicone I buy is silicone I can recycle.;)

Thanks for the explanation! I sort of knew that they're not biodegradable, as they're not soluble in water, but I didn't quite put two and two together :rolleyes:


I don't think I've ever owned a product with those cones in it. Those names don't seem familiar at all... thankfully!

Me neither. I certainly don't recognise them. I wonder if they're rare in hair products?

[Myrddin]

Hmm, I´m astonished about the article. I recently did a research on scientific articles about cones. What I understood that silicone are biodegrable. Especially cyclopentasiloxane and the other cyclocones vanish easily. They are volatile and the rays of the sun cracks them down into their original substances.

I might look for the article, if somebody is interested.

[darkwaves]

Hmm, I´m astonished about the article. I recently did a research on scientific articles about cones. What I understood that silicone are biodegrable. Especially cyclopentasiloxane and the other cyclocones vanish easily. They are volatile and the rays of the sun cracks them down into their original substances.

I might look for the article, if somebody is interested. This would be interesting, because my web research says that cyclopentasiloxane is D5 -- and it's fairly common in conditioners. (I have two different high-cone Aveda products with this in my shower as I type.)

[darkwaves]

I certainly don't recognise them. I wonder if they're rare in hair products? I think D4 and D5 are fairly common -- as are the names I found for them, above. (For example, in this article (http://www.ec.gc.ca/substances/ese/eng/challenge/batch2/batch2_556-67-2_rms.cfm)from Environment Canada.)

[SimplyLonghair]

Gee and I thought that I had gone cone free, but from reading that article, that stuff is everywhere.:p I knew that there were good reasons for being greener.:D
Can't they just realize we all have to share the planet?:rolleyes:

[florenonite]

I think D4 and D5 are fairly common -- as are the names I found for them, above. (For example, in this article (http://www.ec.gc.ca/substances/ese/eng/challenge/batch2/batch2_556-67-2_rms.cfm)from Environment Canada.)

Maybe it's just that I tend to use cheap conditioners that don't contain those 'cones, then, or sometimes any at all (things like Tesco's own brand, 50p for 500 mL :D). It's worrying, though, if they are common and going into the environment...


Gee and I thought that I had gone cone free, but from reading that article, that stuff is everywhere.:p I knew that there were good reasons for being greener.:D
Can't they just realize we all have to share the planet?:rolleyes:

Well said!

[Gothic Lolita]

Even if silicone is everywhere, and I do believe that it is, I'm really glad that I've gone 'cone-free long time ago. Makes me feel a little better.

From what I've understood in Chemistry it's nearly impossible to destroy silicones. Of course you can recycle them, if you're able to collect them, but the temperatures needed are extremly high and naturally impossible to reach, e.g. just by sunlight.
This doen't necessarily mean that they're bad for humans, they even but it in meds sometimes and silicone is virtually everywhere, because it's strucutre is unique and shows a great variety. Silicones are hybrieds beteween organic and inorganic compounds and therefore extremly useful for the industry.

But still, I'd be thinking twice if I'd put the stuff on my hair!


What makes me ponder are the "ingredients" of silicones: Carbon, hydrogen, oxygen and slicon. >> These compounds aren't damaging at all, what else do they put on the stuff?

The wikipedia article on Silicone is also very useful and explains the matter quite well!

[Iylivarae]

What makes me ponder are the "ingredients" of silicones: Carbon, hydrogen, oxygen and slicon. >> These compounds aren't damaging at all, what else do they put on the stuff?


Actually, it mostly doesn't depend on the elements that are in a product, for the molecules have different characteristics from the pure element... For example, cyanide ions contain carbon and nitrogen, both aren't poisonous, but you can easily kill yourself with cyanide.

[Gothic Lolita]

Iylivarae: Thanks for pointing this out, I didn't think of other examples. This makes it a bit clearer!

[Iylivarae]

Iylivarae: Thanks for pointing this out, I didn't think of other examples. This makes it a bit clearer!

You are welcome :)