Henna and gelatin

[moonstrucky]

Hi everyone -
I'm hoping to dye my iliac length hair tonight (sleeping on it) using my 300 g of henna and some gelatin (I also have lemon and grape juice, and can make chamomile tea if I want...)
Advice for using gelatin? How much do I use, and how long do I let it set up before I plop it on my head? What about dye release for the henna with the lemon juice? Just confused about the process here, if anyone has done it and could share advice, that would be most appreciated.
Thanks!

[squiggyflop]

never have i heard of using gelaten... or grape juice for that matter... where did you get the idea to put gelaten in the henna?? what would gelatin do exactly... honestly i think you would get better results with just hot water... i use a tiny bit of ACV mixed with hot hot hot water to get dye release...

[iris]

I'm guessing you want to use gelatin to improve the consistency of the paste, make it more gel-like? Gelatin is useless for that. Gelatin needs to be cold to gel up, as soon as it gets warm it loses its viscosity again. It'll melt right off your head.

You can use lots of other things to improve the consistency. I always liked fructose - 1 part fructose to 4 part henna paste, you mix up the paste first, then add the fructose, don't add more water, just add the fructose to the paste, it'll be moist enough (sucks moisture from the air).

I'm sure other people will be along with their favorite consistency-improving methods.

Iris

[squiggyflop]

ok henna gets a faster dye release for me if i add something acidic so if you are looking to speed up the process use apple cider vinagar... lemon can cause the henna to not stain as well... remember to only use 1-2 tablespoons of and acidy substance.. the rest should be hot water but not boiling water... mix it until its the consistancy of yogurt
http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg69/squiggyflop/mudinbag.jpg
now stick the mud in a warm place.... the warmer the better (speeds it up) but dont stick it anywhere thats hot... say over 106degrees...
i put mine in my furnace room... its nice and warm in there..
when the outside turns brown or when it leaves a light orange stain on your hand when you put some on it... that means its done.. different hennas have dye release in different ammounts of time.. the henna i get only needs 3 hours.. some hennas need 8 hours..
wear gloves and mush it to your head working in sections..
http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg69/squiggyflop/rubbergloves.jpg
. make sure your hair is damp or the henna will be hard to spread... get your saran wrap ready before you get all muddy and wear black clothes or clothes you dont care about..
also get a thick winter hat preferably black bacause henna doesnt seem to stain black
http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg69/squiggyflop/doghatandsaran.jpg
now wrap your head up with saran wrap until you look like an alien... the longer your hair is the bigger your head will look... now cover the saran wrap with the thick hat
the hat is for insulation because henna works better warm
sit and relax...
some hennas need to be left on for a long time.. mine only needs an hour.. only you can decide how long to leave it on


my favorite way to improve consistancy is to add a little conditioner to the paste (after dye release has occured..) addding a little conditioner can also make it easier to wash out later too

[Henna Sooq]

actually an acid is not necessary for making a great color tone with henna. Using warm to hot water works very well. 10 years worth of it for me!! Sometimes because of various hair textures lemon juice or an acid can make the hair very drying and turn off some people away from henna and herbal treatments. Just be moderate in what you use.

Gelatin, I don't think it would be necessary as henna can be rather nice and thick on it's own. Just add liquid slowly, a bit at a time.

[squiggyflop]

actually an acid is not necessary for making a great color tone with henna. Using warm to hot water works very well. 10 years worth of it for me!! Sometimes because of various hair textures lemon juice or an acid can make the hair very drying and turn off some people away from henna and herbal treatments. Just be moderate in what you use.

Gelatin, I don't think it would be necessary as henna can be rather nice and thick on it's own. Just add liquid slowly, a bit at a time.
i didnt say it was necissary i just said it made it faster.;).. at least it has on all the henna ive ever used... now i do have to agree that water only is far better! if only i had time for it... yes lots of textures hate acid added mine included... well at least it did until i started adding a bit of conditioner to the paste...lol...
now moonstrucky you listen to henna sooq:)... perhaps you should also visit the henna thread.. if you have time definately use hot water... if your in a time crunch use a tiny bit of ACV or lemon remember only a tiny bit of acid... tiny...

[Finoriel]

I have tried this and it worked just fine, but currently I prefer to use yoghurt to improve the application-properties and decrease the henna amount ;) but that´s not you´ve asked for:

Henna + hot water (lemon juice), wait until it´s temperated, dissolve the powdered gelatin in it and wait until it thickens. Depending on how much it thickens up (or not) add more water (or more gelatin).

Gelatin dissolves best at about 50°C and loosens it´s thickening ability at about 80°C (protein brake down), so make sure the henna&water mix has cooled down a bit before adding the gelatin. Normal body temperature should not cause the gelatin to break down, it will not melt on your head unless you use a heat cap or such.
Amounts for the gelatin/water ratio should be on the backside of the package and vary with the amount of henna you plan to use.
Oh I never wait for dye release, but if you like to wait for it, just dissolve the gelatin after dye release.

It´s like cooking ;) just experiment a bit until you find the right amount for your hairlenght.

[Delilah]

My guess is she was referring to Fia's gel method (I can't currently find a link, I suppose it may have been lost in the LHC-pocolypse) in which the henna, after dye release, is strained well and all the dye-liquid is mixed with pectin (not gelatin) to make a gel-like haircolor.

It seems like quite a bit of extra work when you compare it to just spending another 5 minutes in the shower. Besides, good henna (I use hennasooq's in fact :) ) will have a nice gel-like texture when set especially if you add a tbsp or so of oil to the mix.

Now indigo on the other hand... I would be tempted try any way possible to thicken that mess.

[Islandgrrl]

Why, out of curiousity, would you use gelatin in the henna. Is it not thick and goopy enough already?

[Delilah]

Why, out of curiousity, would you use gelatin in the henna. Is it not thick and goopy enough already?


To make is a smoother consistancy and easier to rinse.
With BAQ henna that has been sifted multiple times, it is not necessary.
If you're using henna full of twigs and leaves, it would make things easier.

[Islandgrrl]

To make is a smoother consistancy and easier to rinse.
With BAQ henna that has been sifted multiple times, it is not necessary.
If you're using henna full of twigs and leaves, it would make things easier.

Thank you, Delilah! Now I know why I use sifted BAQ henna!

[Finoriel]

Or for reducing the weight and needed amount of henna.
Balancing 300g + water on your head is not easy ;) and makes you look for other methods, which are not so heavy and less expensive.

[Delilah]

There definitely was merit in the concept, since you basically got all the dye into the liquid, removed the swampmuck, and made the liquid into a handle-able form.
Still it seems like a lot of work. If low-quality henna is all that is available it may be worth it.

My henna from hennasooq washes out easily in 5 minutes with just water- no conditioner.

[iris]

Gelatin dissolves best at about 50°C and loosens it´s thickening ability at about 80°C
Huh? Gelatin loses its gelling power at 25C. That's why they use agar-agar in the tropics - outside temperature is too warm.

Are we talking about the same stuff? Gelatin, to me, is what they make out of bones. Clear transparent stuff, sold in sheets, you soak it in cold water for a bit until you can use it... sounds like the powder stuff you talk about is something else?

Iris

[Henna Sooq]

Oh great point Delilah! and thank you :)

To thicken up indigo CMC works well. Wish I could get my hands on some more! If you want some they want you to order like a HUGE quantity and you only need like 1 gram to 100 grams of powder so it lasts a long time.

I agree a head full of henna is a loadful. That's why I just sleep with mine usually. I don't have much time otherwise anyhow.


squiggyflop, oh for sure I didn't mean anything personal. I was reading fas through the threads as I must have been out of the loop for quite some time now. I just replied quick before.

Sometimes some henna powders also have faster dye release then others, so anyone could always consider that when in a henna rush! :) I find that mixing it up and let it sit 2 hours, is something I can get away with. I don't use jamila for my hair but my mother in law likes it and just grabbed up some boxes from me when she was visiting. I am a henna and go type of gal so the faster dye releases appeal to me.

I also started to dilute my body art mix of henna, with more water and less lemon juice, as some people found the lemon juice drying and itchy on their hands, body parts etc..

[Finoriel]

Hej iris
There are for sure different kinds of gelatin ;)
I´m talking about the most common powdered stuff, the gelatin-leaves I haven´t seen in years... but they had to swell in hand-warm water first and then to be dissolved in pretty warm "whatever you wanted to make a jelly of". Cool down and then it would be stable even if being in the sun on a hot summer day with 40°, otherwise most of my decorated fruit cakes would have melted.
But you can also find gelatin which is called "cold"-gelatin this kind can be used with almost cold water and indeed melts away faster than the normal gelatin. But that´s a special brand for quick and easy desserts and more expensive too, so nothing to spend on hair in big amounts...
The "normal" kind is the stuff Haribo makes it´s gummi bears of and they don´t melt at 25°C, they get soft at about 40 (which is more than your body temperature should be while hennaing) but don´t really melt at those temperatures.
All my cooking books tell me about the same numbers for common gelatin (prepare hot but don´t boil), backside of the packet agrees:shrug: and wikipedia says the same too... (the English article there is not the most helpful one temperature-wise, but if you can read German Gelatine (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gelatine), otherwise just ask google :) ) It´s a natural ingredient and can vary slightly from brand to brand and from country to country, but in general it´s possible to use for thickening purpose in thin and runny henna-paste.

As far as I know they use agar-agar in Japan and China because it´s a traditional ingredient there and not because gelatin would not work because of the temperatures, for some it is also important that it is made of algae and not from pork and does not get rancid so fast at higher temperatures... otherwise it is hard to digest and works as a laxative in higher doses. And it stays stable for some more degrees than gelatin does, that´s right. But if you plan to use it at body temperature 36° it should really make no difference :)

[birdiefu]

I second the use of fructose (well, I use sucrose, but close results). Adding a lot of sugar after you have your mud mixed makes it much more smooth and easier to apply. I also sometimes add yogurt so I don't need to use as much henna. I use a little less than 200g of henna (some left for a gloss) with TB length hair.

[khyricat]

I use cornstarch to stretch my henna, I get as good coverage and no leakage from less BAQ henna with the cornstarch method.. and never deal with drippies.. I posted my method to a t- on the henna social group..

Amie

[iris]

Finoriel, I guess the cold form of gelatin is the common form here, then. I'm not a fan of gelatin-based stuff so I don't have a lot of first-hand experience with it, but Dutch cookbooks and cooking sites warn about it melting in warm weather all the time. When Dutch sources talk about 'the tropics' I'm sure they don't mean China or Japan, but Indonesia (former Dutch colony where the Dutch were apparently unsuccessful making their desserts the way they were used to and switched to agar agar instead).

I have read an account of a guy on h4h who tried to use gelatin as a thickener and had it melt off his head.

I'm just saying I'm not completely insane :wink:. But it makes sense that different places would have different defaults. Interesting!

Iris

[Henna Sooq]

It melted off his head LOL!! poor guy.

I third, the use of sugar. I use regular sugar but usually for serious henna'ing for body art I use fructose. So they both work well :)

[MeMyselfandI]

Sugar - I wish I knew that when I was trying to added hot cornstarch but not boiled with the already mixed up henna/cassia which was to thin. I will use sugar when I thaw it out next time.

[Lexie]

Oh, cornstarch is a temperamental beast. The first time I tried it, I knew I had read to let it cool completely first, but I was being impatient and the hot gelled water mixed with the henna powder gave me a bowl full of henna lumps that offered no stain at all. I let it cool to lukewarm the last time and the paste was very smooth and gel-like. Someone visiting thought it was chocolate pudding and almost ate it. haha I told her I hope she got a whiff of it before it got to her mouth.

It stuck really well to my slightly damp hair, didn't dry out even a little along the edges like it usually does, and didn't budge the whole time it was wrapped up even though I napped and changed position a few times. Nothing but the shower cap got stained and I normally get the towel under my head, neck, and shoulders very well coated with paste. So I think gelled mixes are winners. :)

I knew I had heard of gelatin being used before. And someone on H4H recently added a package of chocolate pudding to her henna--didn't pre-mix or anything, just used the powder. She said her hair smelled like chocolate for days and the color was beautiful, so hey, get interesting with it. It worked for her. :D

[Henna Sooq]

Damp hair is amazing to put henna on and any other herbs for sure!

A package of chocolate pudding!! right into the mix, now that sounds REALLY extraordinarily neat! lol