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Tapioca
March 27th, 2008, 01:25 PM
A local herb store is selling Neutral Henna (Lyzitus Spina christi) for a relatively inexpensive price. Has anyone heard of this? I'm tempted to give it a test on a sample strand. I've been shopping at this place for years and I trust that what they have in the packets is exactly what it says, so I'm not too worried about hidden ingredients. I'm more concerned that it will do nothing at all. I don't want dye release, and I'm looking for a more permanent option than cassia.

ChloeDharma
March 27th, 2008, 02:50 PM
I'm just wondering what result it is you want from it? Something labelled "neutral henna" normally means it's just for the conditioning benefits without the colour. But even henna isn't so permanent for conditioning so anything you use for that would need to be done with some regularity.

Have you tried googling this lyzi-wotsit stuff and seeing what comes up? I'd be interested to hear what it does....i can't say i've ever heard of it.

Anje
March 27th, 2008, 03:01 PM
I'm not sure what that is... The usual "neutral henna" is Cassia obovata.

Tapioca
March 27th, 2008, 04:58 PM
I'm in it for the conditioning. Cassia has to be redone every two weeks to a month. I was hoping this might last longer. And I wouldn't have to pay shipping, like I would for cassia. I find it unreasonable when the shipping is almost the same price as the product. I'll probably end up doing what Nightshade suggested to me, and letting some henna sit for a few days until there's no more dye release, and do a gloss. I've looked for it online, and all I get is websites selling it with no information.

akurah
March 27th, 2008, 05:06 PM
http://www.hennaforhair.com/forum/messages/6616.html

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1277088
http://www.crescentbloom.com/plants/Specimen/ZI/Ziziphus%20spina%20christi.htm
http://www.beesfordevelopment.org/info/info/flora/christs-thorn-ziziphus-sp.shtml

prosperina
March 27th, 2008, 05:58 PM
There are plants that are similar to cassia obovata: cassia angustifolia and some others, but they will usually be called senna, or something. I'd be curious to see what this plant actually does, but it's not cassia or henna.

ktani
March 27th, 2008, 07:12 PM
Interesting - this company calls it cassia obovata too - scroll down a bit.
http://www.kalyx.com/store/proddetail.cfm/ItemID/667659.0/CategoryID/10500.0/SubCatID/730.0/file.htm

and I have no idea what this is.
http://www.wildflowerherbals.com/bulkherbs/hennaneutral.html

akurah
March 27th, 2008, 07:23 PM
If you read the first link I posted, Catherine Cartwright Jones says this particular plant or "henna" is NOT color neutral.

Please do a strand test first before trying, or you might be unhappy with the results.

ktani
March 27th, 2008, 08:16 PM
akurah

Agreed - it is not henna, not cassia and apparently not Z spina christi either as per your link
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1277088

iris
March 27th, 2008, 08:37 PM
I remember there was a big thread on h4h once, about whether or not this XYZ spina christi was lotus powder. I don't remember what the conclusion was. I don't think there was a conclusion, except that some of the XYZ spina christi things didn't actually exist or something. (Analogous to how lawsonia alba doesn't exist - botanists gave a different name to young henna plants because they look different from the older plant but lawsonia alba was just young lawsonia inermis. Or something along those lines).

That lotus powder thread actually got a bit heated. People were arguing. I don't remember what about but it was weird and reputations were at stake.

Thus far my quality contribution to the mystery of XYZ spina christi :D

Iris

Tapioca
March 31st, 2008, 05:44 PM
Well, I was planning a hairball test for dye release, but I think I'll go strand test, so I can feel if there's any tactile difference.

Amnell
April 1st, 2008, 03:00 AM
I remember there was a big thread on h4h once, about whether or not this XYZ spina christi was lotus powder. I don't remember what the conclusion was. I don't think there was a conclusion, except that some of the XYZ spina christi things didn't actually exist or something. (Analogous to how lawsonia alba doesn't exist - botanists gave a different name to young henna plants because they look different from the older plant but lawsonia alba was just young lawsonia inermis. Or something along those lines).

That lotus powder thread actually got a bit heated. People were arguing. I don't remember what about but it was weird and reputations were at stake.

Thus far my quality contribution to the mystery of XYZ spina christi :D

Iris

Are you meaning Ziziphus spina Christi? also called Sedr/Sidr
click (http://209.85.135.104/search?q=cache:Fa6gerDb1LgJ:www.henna-und-mehr.de/de/bestell11.html+ziziphus+spina+christi&hl=de&ct=clnk&cd=8&gl=de&lr=lang_de&client=firefox-a)
Sorry, its a German site, but maybe you understand a little ore use the Google translator

Tapioca
April 15th, 2008, 06:40 PM
Well, I did a hairball test, then let it sit for three days to oxidize and compared it to a control that only got conditioner. No color change. So, I gave it a shot on my hair. Messy application, and it felt gritty, but it rinsed out well after a mermaid soak. My hair feels a bit smoother and easier to detangle, and there's no visible color change. For $1.25, it was worth the experiment, but now I'm tempted to try Cassia for comparison.

ktani
July 17th, 2008, 07:09 AM
I think that this is really interesting on Ziziphus spina-christi, also called sedr.

While it is not a cassia obovata substitute, it can and has been and probably still is used to wash the hair.

It is reported in this text research, traditionally, to darken hair.

"Spina-christi is a tree .... south of Iran. The leaves of this plant .... locally known as “Sedr” and “Konar”.... used for washing the hair and body.
.... the powdered leaves said to darken and lengthen women’s hair [Irvine]."
http://www.dweckdata.com/Published_papers/Zizyphus_spina-Christi_paper.pdf (http://www.dweckdata.com/Published_papers/Zizyphus_spina-Christi_paper.pdf)

"For centuries Iranian people used leaves .... Lotus tree called Sedr for washing their hair. Dried leaves .... crushed into powder, and today some domestic companies add Sedr to shampoo. Shampoo with added Sedr .... very popular .... high consumer loyalty to the traditional product."
http://www.euromonitor.com/Cosmetics_and_Toiletries_in_Iran

vampodrama
July 17th, 2008, 07:45 AM
I've tried this plant, as it is available here as well as"colourless henna".

didn't do anything for my hair, really... some people in our local henna sisterhood have said it turns light hair into a very slightly darker, beige-ish hue. but no one has reported any real benefits for the hair. but then again, we only get the very cheap, low quality stuff.

ktani
July 17th, 2008, 08:07 AM
I would be interested to know how it works, from anyone who has tried it, as a hair washing plant, even though it would not be my choice if it can darken hair.

Tapioca
July 17th, 2008, 12:20 PM
I finally found a supplier of inexpensive cassia with decent shipping. Monterey Bay Spice Co. So, for me, the Lyzitus is a moot point.