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Akiko
January 12th, 2009, 10:54 AM
It's so basic and kind of embarrassing to ask. But I have trouble understanding hair color.:( Could someone help me?

I googled. But it seems like I get more confused! I wonder if there is a good chart somewhere. Or maybe someone can explain to me... I looked up my dictionaries. But definitions are so vague and not helpful.

Colors I have trouble with... (There are a lot more. But these are what I can think of right now.)

ginger
dishwater blonde
mousy blonde
auburn, chestnut, copper (what's the difference?)

Aisha25
January 12th, 2009, 10:57 AM
Ok lets see if I can help :silly:
ginger is color of ginger powder right?
copper is the color of a penny
auburn is like a darkesh red?
chesnut is like a brownish reddish right?
dishwater blonde I have no idea
mousy dont know

Himesama
January 12th, 2009, 11:01 AM
Akiko,
This is a great idea. We have very specific definitions for length and thickness, but have not come across one for color, although color is more difficult to define. Has something like this appeared before?
This may not help much, but my mother says my hair is chestnut. It is very dark brown but in the sunlight has lots of red in it. Keep in mind that my mother's native language is not English. Unfortunately, I have not posted any photos, so cannot point you to a visual example. Hopefully other members will be kind enough to provide input.
v

rymorg2
January 12th, 2009, 11:08 AM
ginger
dishwater blonde
mousy blonde
auburn, chestnut, copper (what's the difference?)

I'm a stylist.....the definitions vary from brand to brand. Generally they are as follows:

Ginger is more of a coppery blonde
dishwater blonde is a dark blonde with ashy tones usually
mousy blonde is the same as dishwater
auburn is dark reddish brown
chestnut is medium reddish brown
copper is more of an orangey toned red.

eta it also varies because everyone sees color differently. One stylist may see your color as chestnut when another sees it as auburn.

Does that help?

Bene
January 12th, 2009, 11:10 AM
i always thought a ginger was a person with red hair (any shade of red)

Akiko
January 12th, 2009, 11:16 AM
Thank you everyone. I am here in front of a penny and ginger powder, groaning. My ginger powder from an Indian grocery store does not have any red or copper.:confused:

I now understand dishwater blonde=mousy blonde. Good!

So ginger is blonde with more orange. Strawberry blonde would be blonde with red? Dark chestnut is like auburn?:confused:

And cinnamon color. Is it like auburn? Sorry! I am so clueless.

rymorg2
January 12th, 2009, 11:23 AM
Thank you everyone. I am here in front of a penny and ginger powder, groaning. My ginger powder from an Indian grocery store does not have any red or copper.:confused:

I now understand dishwater blonde=mousy blonde. Good!

So ginger is blonde with more orange. Strawberry blonde would be blonde with red? Dark chestnut is like auburn?:confused:

And cinnamon color. Is it like auburn? Sorry! I am so clueless.

Ginger and strawberry can be the same, but the strawberry is more of a true red blonde than ginger...it's more orange red or coppery. Dark chestnut and auburn are very close...sometimes the same thing....but auburn is more red than brown. IMO chestnut is more brown than red. I've had my hair both ways.

There are different tones of reds. Some are orangey or coppery. Some are true reds like cherries. Some are violet based like raspberries.

Help some? Again, it varies because people see color differently. One persons ginger is another persons strawberry. :shrug:

Bene
January 12th, 2009, 11:23 AM
google image ginger hair, and you'll see a bunch of redheads :shrug:

Akiko
January 12th, 2009, 11:26 AM
rymorg, it is very helpful, thank you. That solved my mystery a lot. Color definition is vague, I see. Bene, I thought ginger belongs to redhead family, too. Maybe it's blondish redhead? Aisha, I am still looking at my ginger powder. How in the world they named hair color GINGER? Puzzled. Himesama, English is not my native language. Besides, growing up among only black hair people did not help me learn colors. I am learning now,though.:)

Aisha25
January 12th, 2009, 11:28 AM
I have no idea:lol:

rymorg2
January 12th, 2009, 11:40 AM
google image ginger hair, and you'll see a bunch of redheads :shrug:

Bene, Ginger is an OLD term for a redhead as well, and the reason Ginger was named Ginger on gillgan's island.

Katze
January 12th, 2009, 11:42 AM
Ginger is a UK term for redhead, as far as I understand.

What is "blonde" is a really interesting idea. Here in Northern Europe, I'm not considered blonde, but when I lived in New York City, I was. My hair looks blonder or browner at different times, depending on if it's been washed or not. I have blonde eyebrows, so I consider myself blonde, though most people here don't. Oh, and my shade of blonde is mostly known as "dishwater" or "mousy" but I prefer "honey" or "tawny" blonde.

Bene
January 12th, 2009, 11:48 AM
Bene, Ginger is an OLD term for a redhead as well, and the reason Ginger was named Ginger on gillgan's island.



of course it's old.


i've been looking up the etymology for ginger, apparently it's from old english/gaelic, they called redheaded ppl "ginger"

as far as i can see, it looks like "ginger" is the umbrella terminology for all redheads.

Anje
January 12th, 2009, 12:10 PM
ginger -- I'm pretty sure this is the UK term for a redhead, but I tend to think of it as a lighter red, like strawberry blond. I'm thinking closer to the color of a ginger root than ginger powder, but there's definitely a red note to it.
dishwater blonde -- I consider this to be a dark blond, maybe more in the cool spectrum, same as mousy blond.
auburn, chestnut, copper (what's the difference?) -- As I see it, copper is a bright reddish, like the metal. Auburn is red mixed with a bit of brown, just dark enough that the term "redhead" might not be applied by everyone. Chestnut in my mind is the darkest of the three, and is a deep brown with reddish tones in it.

MsBubbles
January 12th, 2009, 12:41 PM
Yep. Ginger is just (British) English for redhead (like Fringe vs. Bangs, trousers vs. pants, etc.).

I'd like a uniform LHC hair coloring system too. But then many of us have multi-colored hair and various color growing-out stages.

mira-chan
January 12th, 2009, 12:46 PM
Chestnut is a brown that get reddish highlights sun. It's too dark to be Auburn but it's a red brown not an ash/ cool brown. I have dark chestnut color hair. When my hair gets sun bleaching turns to a coppery tone highlights.

Comfrey
January 12th, 2009, 12:53 PM
Ginger doesnt mean redhead in Britain. Ginger means that bright ..... well ginger red such as this
http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/09_01/russabbot0709_228x411.jpg.

A redhead is a redhead and often doesn't include someone with ginger hair.

Comfrey
January 12th, 2009, 01:17 PM
Oh and before anyone thinks I'm being unkind, that picture is of a British comedian called Russ Abbot and he wasnt taking the mickey out of ginger haired people. He was playing on the fact Scots are said to be ginger haired and angry :lol:

Akiko
January 12th, 2009, 01:17 PM
Now I think I have a better grasp of chestnut, auburn and copper. But ginger. shudder: more confused!

Like Katze said, blonde definition seems to be really different in the US than what I grew up with. I thought blonde means really light blonde like many Norwegians have. But people call a lot of different colors blonde in the US, which I consider brown.

People seem to have different ideas about color...

Red Jezebel
January 12th, 2009, 01:27 PM
As a redhead who has had the term ginger (or worse, ginge!) directed my way all my life, I can say that ginger in the UK is often used by the non-redheaded, often in a derogatory manner, to describe redheads of all shades. It is us redheads, and those who are in the hair profession, who use the different terms such as copper, auburn, titian, strawberry, etc, to distingish the differences in the red shades.

Ginger, which I would refer to as bright red, is different from strawberry blonde that's for sure, which is a reddish blonde.

Example of ginger - kid on the right (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-459182/Red-headed-family-forced-ginger-hate-campaign.html)
Strawberry blonde (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_rH7UnCDuqTY/RvySvD8tRhI/AAAAAAAAAMg/Nhcy3KRXc0M/s1600-h/nicolekid.jpg) on Nicole Kidman


Hope that helps

Red Jezebel
January 12th, 2009, 01:39 PM
Yep. Ginger is just (British) English for redhead (like Fringe vs. Bangs, trousers vs. pants, etc.).IMO, and it is just my opinion, redhead is the UK term for redhead, ginger is just insulting.

But it's one of those things, do you let yourself be insulted by it or claim it back? I know http://www.redandproud.com (http://www.redandproud.com/), and a few other sites, tried to retake it and dispel the insulting connotations it has in UK culture a good number of years ago and I appreciate what they're tried to do, but I guess I'll always flinch at it when people use it.

Sorry for going off topic. I just want people to think about using that word. I hate it with a passion, really and truly. Unhappy memories, is all :rolleyes:

Comfrey
January 12th, 2009, 01:44 PM
Red Jezabel, as a matter of interest I'm a natural redhead and you're quite right it CAN be used in a derogatory fashion. But it is more usually used for the bright red hair, as I'm sure you will agree.

I never objected to being called Ginger or ginge, its guar (I think thats how its spelt) I hate :mad:

That hate campaign you highlighted was rare and there were other reasons why that particular family were targeted. Not that it makes it ok of course. But sadly some types of people will use anything as an excuse, and I dread to think what might have been said had that family been black :rolleyes:

Here's a cuter story :)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-480286/Baby-born-head-Elvis-style-ginger-hair.html

ETA:
Sorry I was posting as you posted the second time. All I can say is I'm sorry you have bad experiences. As I said I think people always use that thing they know will cause pain.
I'm short. Really short and to say I'm sick of "jokes" about height would be an understatement. Maybe my lack of height was more of a way of getting to me than my hair colour, I dunno :shrug:

LutraLutra
January 12th, 2009, 01:49 PM
It is all very confusing. I think I'm auburn, but I'd also accept chestnut, but I'm probably too dark to be called a redhead. :rolleyes:

Akiko
January 12th, 2009, 01:52 PM
Red Jezebel, I did not mean anything negative about ginger. I am sorry you had such bad experiences. The picture of the baby Comfrey linked.. Amazing beautiful color!!! So cute. Hair looks so soft...

Phalaenopsis
January 12th, 2009, 02:04 PM
Ginger is a UK term for redhead, as far as I understand.

What is "blonde" is a really interesting idea. Here in Northern Europe, I'm not considered blonde, but when I lived in New York City, I was. My hair looks blonder or browner at different times, depending on if it's been washed or not. I have blonde eyebrows, so I consider myself blonde, though most people here don't. Oh, and my shade of blonde is mostly known as "dishwater" or "mousy" but I prefer "honey" or "tawny" blonde.

Same here, although I don't think I'm dishwater blonde, don't they mean pepper and salt with that? A more ashy blonde?
The colour packages say I'm hazelnut blonde.

I think everything has a different name in another system. A hair typing system including colour would be great :)

Red Jezebel
January 12th, 2009, 02:10 PM
Red Jezabel, as a matter of interest I'm a natural redhead and you're quite right it CAN be used in a derogatory fashion. But it is more usually used for the bright red hair, as I'm sure you will agree.Yeah, I didn't mean to imply it's always an insult. It's just it's probably 3-1 to the negative in my experiance. I guess I'm too sensitive about it. I do try to lighten up about it :D


I never objected to being called Ginger or ginge, its guar (I think thats how its spelt) I hate :mad:Never heard that term! How do you pronouce it? Ginger pronouced in that other way (can't spell how it's pronouced, kind of ringer, but with a g at the start) is definiately insulting. That annoys me even more.


That hate campaign you highlighted was rare and there were other reasons why that particular family were targeted. Not that it makes it ok of course. But sadly some types of people will use anything as an excuse, and I dread to think what might have been said had that family been black :rolleyes:I wasn't highlighting that incident as an example of hate at all (suspect they weren't as blameless as the article implied), just as a example of the colour ginger, it just happened the first pic that showed a good example of the colour ginger was in that article. With hindsight I should have found another one! :D

This (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/6725653.stm)article cover the subject in the best way I've seen so far. I will try not to send this thread off-topic any more, sorry everyone.

Red Jezebel
January 12th, 2009, 02:15 PM
Ok, maybe one last little post, then I'll go away...

1) that kid in the link is adorable!
2) Phalaenopsis - ash and hazelnut is far more appropriate and polite. Why do people have to find the more insulting term to use. It doesn't take much brainpower to come up with a kinder description.
3) Akiko - I didn't take offense at all from your post. :) You did no harm, don't worry.

Comfrey
January 12th, 2009, 02:23 PM
Never heard that term! How do you pronouce it? Ginger pronouced in that other way (can't spell how it's pronouced, kind of ringer, but with a g at the start) is definiately insulting. That annoys me even more.
Its pronounced gwar. You know it may just be a squaddie term for a redhead, which is interesting in view of the Harry thread.

Oh and ginger pronounced THAT way ...... yeah I agree, its vile :mad:

Drynwhyl
January 12th, 2009, 04:32 PM
I guess mousy is just light brown, kinda grey and dull, like my natural colour :mad:
Like a mouse's fur :P

Aisha25
January 12th, 2009, 04:34 PM
Ginger here in states is a tannish blonde I never know it was refered to as a redhead here in US we call them carrot tops:o not me other people.

Samikha
January 12th, 2009, 05:10 PM
What is "blonde" is a really interesting idea. Here in Northern Europe, I'm not considered blonde, but when I lived in New York City, I was. My hair looks blonder or browner at different times, depending on if it's been washed or not. I have blonde eyebrows, so I consider myself blonde, though most people here don't. Oh, and my shade of blonde is mostly known as "dishwater" or "mousy" but I prefer "honey" or "tawny" blonde.



Like Katze said, blonde definition seems to be really different in the US than what I grew up with. I thought blonde means really light blonde like many Norwegians have. But people call a lot of different colors blonde in the US, which I consider brown.

People seem to have different ideas about color...

It depends on what you're used to see, colour does. We used to refer to a girl I had in my class as a redhead hair-wise, but when a blonde girl in the same class used brown dye on her hair and it came out a (beautiful!) strong red, we stopped;) Today I would have referred to her hair as either reddish or strawberry blonde.

To me, blonde is a very light colour, either yellow/goldenish or more ashy - the ashy I consider a close relative to my hair colour, which despite my album looks very light sometimes. The golden blonde I consider a relative of red hair.

I wouldn't consider your hair blonde either, Katze, but golden-brown. (I don't mean that as an insult or anything!). It's near identical to my own colour, actually (looking through your albums) only the hair on my head I think of as mousy XD My eyebrows are the same colour as my hair, though. I don't really understand how anyone could term your hair blonde, but again, it's what you're used to that determines these things.

Jeni
January 12th, 2009, 06:25 PM
My best friend in high school was what I would call a ginger (meant with love). She had bright orange red hair, pale skin and LOTS of freckles. I can see how looking at ginger powder would be confusing since its (at least mine) a pale yellow. I would describe a person as Ginger not a hair color, if that makes sense.

Copper is a bright orangey red, like a bright new penny, only ya know not brassy....

Mousy/dishwater blond- To me this is a hard color to pin point since it seems to be on the edge between blond and brown, and often seems to be used when someone doesn't like their color (dishwater blond isn't the prettiest sounding color). I will describe my hair as dishwater blond and my natural color is a med beige blond, dull and boring as far as I'm concerned.

To me Auburn is more red then brown, and can be light or dark. I think of Cinnamon as being a shade of auburn, more of a cool red (without being burgundy) if that makes sense. This is the color I wish I had. When I was little I would color all my people in drawings with auburn hair by coloring the hair red first then lightly color over it with brown- does that make any sense?

Chestnut is more brown then red in my book and is dark. Someone with dark brown hair that has red in it would be described as chestnut, by me at least.

Hair color is confusing! I'm a native English speaker who grew up around people with many different hair colors and I still have problems decided what is what. It's all personal really. My mother would call herself a dark blond, I would classify her as more of a light/med brown. It also depends on where you are. Like Katze said in some areas she is considered a blond in others she is considered a brunette. In an area that has a lot of blond someone with darker blond/light brown/mousy blond would probably be called a brunette. That same person taken into an area with a majority of dark hair she will be a blond. Same with red hair, someones strawberry blond is another person's red.

That was really long...sorry about that.

Oh and for the record I don't even know what color I have right now (not pictured). Am I a strawberry blond or "officially" red? I get different answers when I ask people around me.

Anje
January 12th, 2009, 06:40 PM
Red Jezebel, what about "Titian"? DH once describe my natural color as that, but I'm not really familiar with the term. My hair tended to be described as a really light auburn.

MsBubbles
January 12th, 2009, 07:32 PM
Ginger doesnt mean redhead in Britain. Ginger means that bright ..... well ginger red such as this

A redhead is a redhead and often doesn't include someone with ginger hair.

Huh?!?? Whaa...? I'm English. I grew up 10 years on the South coast and the next 10 years stuck in the midlands and in both places, 'ginger' meant anybody with red hair. Not auburn hair, not strawberry blonde hair, but red hair as the people over here in the US call it. The majority of this thread up until my post included Americans, and that, in my experience of living 17 years in the US has shown me that when people here say 'redhead' they mean what the English gal in me would call 'ginger'. My son has this coloured hair. I'm so proud!

What part of the UK are you from, Comfrey? Maybe it's a matter of colloquialisms. Oh and I got a lot of erroneous notions from my poor befuddled Mother, who was also convinced that thin girls with hair down to their tailbones were thin because 'the long hair stole all the nutrients from their bodies'. :rolleyes:. So I may have been using the term 'ginger' entirely wrong my whole life. I am open to correction.
Gotta love Russ Abbott.

MsBubbles
January 12th, 2009, 07:34 PM
IMO, and it is just my opinion, redhead is the UK term for redhead, ginger is just insulting.

'Ginger' is now an insult?!

Sigh.

I give up.

wintersun99
January 12th, 2009, 07:41 PM
'Ginger' is now an insult?!

Sigh.

I give up.

I think this may be a UK thing, I've never heard of it as in insult in the 'States. I could be wrong though, the first I ever heard of it as an insulting term was reading that article, linked earlier.

sedonia
January 12th, 2009, 08:12 PM
Red Jezebel, what about "Titian"? DH once describe my natural color as that, but I'm not really familiar with the term. My hair tended to be described as a really light auburn.

Titian is a very light golden reddish color. Nancy Drew had titian hair.:)

iris
January 12th, 2009, 08:35 PM
What is "blonde" is a really interesting idea. Here in Northern Europe, I'm not considered blonde
Where I am in the Netherlands, you would be considered blonde - dark blonde. I have the same color, so do most Dutch-Dutch people - I find it really hard to tell Dutch students apart, especially the girls, because they all have the same colour hair in the same style - every female Dutch student in the room will have BSL dark blonde hair. As do I :shrug:. The Dutch girls are always the last names I learn because I seriously can't tell them apart.

In any case, we call it dark blonde. Your hair has to be really dark brown for it to be called brown here. If you'd be a shade or two darker you'd still be dark blonde, as long as you have a light sun streak somewhere.

ETA: Interesting thread, - I've always wondered about the difference between chestnut and auburn. But it seems opinions vary on what the difference is.

coppercurls
January 12th, 2009, 09:28 PM
I think it is so interesting how colors are perceived differently.
:cheese:Viva la' difference!

PS my hair color has been called all of the following (by different people)
Copper, Dark Ginger, Light Auburn & Chestnut.
Truth be told, all of those colors are in my hair & now I am collecting silvers!

invisiblebabe
January 12th, 2009, 10:45 PM
IMO no one color name is objectively 'correct' - it's all in perception and culture.

To me, Katze is dark blonde / golden brown. I use those two terms pretty interchangeably, only dark blonde tends to have more of an ashy tone, whereas golden brown has warmer tones. I think mousy and dishwater are both unattractive terms, so I don't use them unless the hair looks really limp and oily.

Ginger is not a term I grew up with, so it doesn't really have any connotations to me.

Strawberry blonde is this color to me: http://www.style-hair-magazine.com/image-files/largeredhaircolor6.jpg

This is also strawberry blonde IMO: here (http://modelmayhm-5.vo.llnwd.net/d1/photos/081110/09/49183ee8776c3.jpg)

Auburn is a darker red to me and is predominantly red (but not a bright red), whereas chestnut brown is a brown with subtle red highlights or undertones.

This is auburn to me:

http://www.thecallingvampirenovels.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/12/magedge1.jpg


And, this is chestnut IMO:

http://l.yimg.com/img.tv.yahoo.com/tv/us/img/site/03/06/0000030306_20060924060544.jpg

Katze
January 13th, 2009, 04:11 AM
Mousy/dishwater blond- To me this is a hard color to pin point since it seems to be on the edge between blond and brown, and often seems to be used when someone doesn't like their color (dishwater blond isn't the prettiest sounding color). I will describe my hair as dishwater blond and my natural color is a med beige blond, dull and boring as far as I'm concerned.
... My mother would call herself a dark blond, I would classify her as more of a light/med brown. It also depends on where you are. Like Katze said in some areas she is considered a blond in others she is considered a brunette. In an area that has a lot of blond someone with darker blond/light brown/mousy blond would probably be called a brunette. That same person taken into an area with a majority of dark hair she will be a blond. Same with red hair, someones strawberry blond is another person's red.

That was really long...sorry about that.

Oh and for the record I don't even know what color I have right now (not pictured). Am I a strawberry blond or "officially" red? I get different answers when I ask people around me.

In your sig pics, I'd call you light golden blonde, or maybe strawberry blonde. But that is also very relative...

I still think of myself as blonde, though dark blonde. My BF has almost the exact same color hair as me, but natural platinum streaks from the sun. He's considered blonde, because of his streaks, even though his beard and eyebrows are dark.

Oh, and the new James Bond is called the 'blond Bond' even though his haircolor *seems* to be similar to mine/BF's (I have not seen the film). I think for men, blond covers a wider range, since most dark blond/light brown haired men don't bleach their hair as most women with this range of haircolors do. Women are only considered 'blonde' at times if they bleach their hair to that childhood color we all long for, a color which is quite rare on adults.

Haircolor, IMO, is relative. Another example is 'black' hair, which, if natural, most often isn't 'black' but some variation on dark brown (I am thinking of Asian friends).

Nes
January 13th, 2009, 08:53 AM
I thought i'd fling my two cents in here....

Here's a hair dye colour guide with names. This is in no way definitive, as everyone has a different viewpoint of what hair colours are, but this is one opinion:

http://www.dosfordonts.com/haircolor.html

I think in terms of ones own hair, you can call your hair any colour you want to! I call mine pepsi colour because it looks brown/black at first, but looks bright ruby red in the light :)

Nes x

rymorg2
January 13th, 2009, 09:07 AM
I was pm'ing someone on this board who suggested that I post here again to offer suggestions on color from a stylist's point of view and how to make sure you communicate what you want.

For example: Caramel....

Caramel to one person has a red tone, to another it has another. I get asked for caramel highlights all the time. I am sure to offer pictures or swatches to make sure I have a better idea of what THEIR idea of caramel is. So my biggest suggestion would be to bring pictures!!! Or at least look through books there to find a picture or two of what you're looking for. We stylists don't hate pictures, we actually love them. Make sure the stylist always repeats back to you so you know they got the picture, pun intended. Color is just so relative, and everyone sees it so differently, that it's important to communicate what your idea of a certain thing is.

Katze, dark blonde and light brown are very interchangable as well. Essentially imo they're really the same. :shrug:

Comfrey
January 13th, 2009, 09:38 AM
What part of the UK are you from, Comfrey? Maybe it's a matter of colloquialisms. Oh and I got a lot of erroneous notions from my poor befuddled Mother, who was also convinced that thin girls with hair down to their tailbones were thin because 'the long hair stole all the nutrients from their bodies'. :rolleyes:. So I may have been using the term 'ginger' entirely wrong my whole life. I am open to correction.
Gotta love Russ Abbott.
LOL I was actually in Oz from 5 till 13 and then I lived mainly in Lincolnshire and then the Midlands (Tamworth) until I married hubby and we moved to Germany where we lived until 96.

So take your pick :D

Incidentally I dont see ginger as an insult either but I do think there are people who are bullied because they do have (what I have always thought of) ginger hair.

Comfrey
January 13th, 2009, 09:43 AM
Titian is a very light golden reddish color. Nancy Drew had titian hair.:)
The term Titian comes from the works of the artist Tiziano Vecellio who painted his ladies with a very specific shade of glorious red hair

I'll try and find a piccy

ktani
January 13th, 2009, 05:41 PM
I was pm'ing someone on this board who suggested that I post here again to offer suggestions on color from a stylist's point of view and how to make sure you communicate what you want.

For example: Caramel....

Caramel to one person has a red tone, to another it has another. I get asked for caramel highlights all the time. I am sure to offer pictures or swatches to make sure I have a better idea of what THEIR idea of caramel is. So my biggest suggestion would be to bring pictures!!! Or at least look through books there to find a picture or two of what you're looking for. We stylists don't hate pictures, we actually love them. Make sure the stylist always repeats back to you so you know they got the picture, pun intended. Color is just so relative, and everyone sees it so differently, that it's important to communicate what your idea of a certain thing is.

I am a caramel freak, lol (eating it, I do not want it as a hair colour) but I never thought about describing it, in terms of having red in it.

I agree, with all of the variations of colours called the same thing and with people perceiving colour differently, pictures are definitely the way to go.

Thank you for making the solution so simple and practical.

rhubarbarin
January 13th, 2009, 06:08 PM
Color name are so subjective. There's a ton of names for almost every color out there, and it's hard to find a person who agrees with what you call 'canary yellow' etc.

My personal hair color catagories:
Black
Blue-black (which I very rarely see - it's the kind of black hair that has absolutely no reddish tones to it, and in fact has a glossy blueish reflection when light hits it)
Dark brown (a brown sometimes mistaken for black)
Auburn or chestnut (reds so dark they often just looks dark brown - same color as a horse chestnut)
Red (actually RED - not orange - fairly rare IME)
Ginger (carroty colored hair)
Strawberry blonde (blonde hair with a pale reddish tone)
Reddish brown (hair that's not actually red, but is so warm toned I can't call it plain brown!)
Brown (encompasses a lot of colors - basically everything I can't put into another category)
Ash brown (cool, lighter brown hair, with absolutely no golden or red tones - almost a gray tone instead)
Blonde (lighter hair with a yellowish tone)
Golden blonde (bright yellow hair)
Honey blonde (blonde hair with an amber tint)
Platinum blonde or towhead (blonde so pale it's almost white)

And then there's the category I put myself into - it goes by many names and everyone's perception of it is different. I've been called light brown, dark blonde, dishwater blonde, mousy, tawny, hair-colored.. my roots are light brown, but I have lots of golden highlights which I get very quickly from any sunlight, and when I spend a lot of time outdoors I do have 'yellow' hair.


Oh, and the new James Bond is called the 'blond Bond' even though his haircolor *seems* to be similar to mine/BF's (I have not seen the film). I think for men, blond covers a wider range, since most dark blond/light brown haired men don't bleach their hair as most women with this range of haircolors do. Women are only considered 'blonde' at times if they bleach their hair to that childhood color we all long for, a color which is quite rare on adults.

I think you're spot on with this. 'Blonde' to a lot of people means only bright yellow or almost white hair, whereas to me it means anything that's not quite dark enough (even just in spots) to call just brown - on women, not just on men!

Anyone want to color-type me? My pics are all in my album.. the bright blonde ends are dye, but most of my hair above my shoulders is my natural color..

salamander
January 13th, 2009, 06:13 PM
Ginger is English slang for red hair. It also applies to orange cats. I suppose they're fairly similar colors.

Tressie
January 13th, 2009, 09:24 PM
I don't have anything to add to this discussion, but I did want to say I've enjoyed reading all of the posts and thanks to everyone for the information. I, too have wondered about chestnut colored hair! (o:

Akiko
January 13th, 2009, 09:51 PM
I would like to say thank you again to all who posted, too. It has been truly educational. I am so amazed how many English terms exist to describe hair color. It's really different from my native language, Japanese. I cannot come up with so many words. They are usually a combination of basic colors, such as black, brown, red and blonde. And of course, grays and silvers. There is a unique phrase, "green black (midori no kurokami)," which is used to depict healthy rich black hair. But other than that, nothing much.

Auburn will be translated as reddish brown. Chestnut ends up the same. Copper is grayish orange with red tinge. What? I cannot even picture any type of color with that definition in my dictionary. Ginger is yellowish(or reddish) brown. Also it says, slang., red hair. Oh, well. It can be any color then! Blonde literally means golden hair.

I was lost in translation. I was lost in hair dye color charts.:confused:
I enjoyed all the posts. Well, I still like to hear more opinions if someone would like to pitch in.:)

Jeni
January 13th, 2009, 09:51 PM
In your sig pics, I'd call you light golden blonde, or maybe strawberry blonde. But that is also very relative...


I need to up date my sig, my hair has more red in it now. I think I'm strawberry blond...?

Huh you would call the pictures in my sig light golden blond? I think because I was born with the white hair, darkened to a light ash blond when I was 7 or 8. When I was 13/14 I started dying my hair light blond because I thought my hair was SOOOO DARK OMG! And it was, compared to the color I use to have. I always call my natural color med or dark blond but I'm starting to rethink this. The color I have now is not really any darker then the sig, just more red and my roots seem really light in comparison.

I'm even more confused now. Maybe I have light/med blond hair not dark blond? Sigh I give up



Haircolor, IMO, is relative. Another example is 'black' hair, which, if natural, most often isn't 'black' but some variation on dark brown (I am thinking of Asian friends).

I was told once that caucasians can not naturally have black hair, it might look black but its actually very dark brown. Only Asians (?) have black hair. Anyone know if this is true?

Tangles
January 13th, 2009, 09:56 PM
Anje, I think titian is a bit less brown than auburn, and I would definitely refer to your hair as that. It's such a rare shade!

Akiko
January 13th, 2009, 10:02 PM
I was told once that caucasians can not naturally have black hair, it might look black but its actually very dark brown. Only Asians (?) have black hair. Anyone know if this is true?

I don't know if caucasians cannot have black hair. But very dark hair on caucasians does not seem to be as black as Asians. As far as Japanese hair goes, our hair has lots of red pigments in it. My virgin hair seems very black at the roots. But as it grows, it naturally gets slightly sun-bleached to dark dark reddish brown. If we chemically bleach our hair, it always end up reddish brown.

I guess that's why jet black chemical dye looks so fake to my eyes. Natural black hair must not be totally jet black.

rhubarbarin said it is rare to see blue-black hair. It's so true. Actually I am not sure if I have even met anyone with blue-black. But I hear it does exist... I don't know what happens if blue-black hair gets bleached. Does it turn more bluish gray???

Aisha25
January 13th, 2009, 10:04 PM
Yeah all indians I know my dad auntys all have black hair with brownish or red in the sun I never seen anyone with blue in real life. I think native american probably had blueish highlights:shrug:
ETA: in my household or anyone I know never use different terms for hair its either black ,brown,red or white hairs like blondes.

Akiko
January 13th, 2009, 10:07 PM
Yes, Aisha. I think most Asian black hair does have some brown or red in it. Although some people have much darker than others. It becomes most apparent when you see hair through sunlight. It looks totally jet black indoors. Oh, native Americans hair. Never thought of that. I have never really seen their hair up close.

Aisha25
January 13th, 2009, 10:16 PM
My mom tell me once that she see this native american and he had long straight thick black hair and in the sun it looked blue I was like woah I couldnt belive it.

Akiko
January 13th, 2009, 10:17 PM
My mom tell me once that she see this native american and he had long straigh thick black hair and in the sun it looked blue I was like woah I couldnt belive it.

Wow. I would like to see blue-black... That's so magical!

Aisha25
January 13th, 2009, 10:19 PM
Yeah I wish I could see too its seems to beautiful.

iris
January 13th, 2009, 11:00 PM
I don't know what happens if blue-black hair gets bleached. Does it turn more bluish gray???
I don't think so, I think it'll just turn out reddish, but I don't know for sure.

Natural hair color is made up of only two pigments - one of them has two forms so it's a mystery to me why they just don't say it's three pigments, but anyway - a grayish blue pigment, a pinkish red one (the color that you see in your lips and nipples etc) and a yellow pigment (the red and the yellow are different forms of the same pigment). All hair colors are made with just these pigments.

Black hair is a mixture of all, obviously with the blue form in large quantities in blue-black hair, and the blue/gray form is flimsy, it's the first to go when you bleach, or when the sun bleaches it. I would think that blue-black hair would still have red/yellow pigment too, though. So if you bleach it, the red/yellow will probably last the longest and the overall color will not be blue.

Katze
January 14th, 2009, 04:51 AM
I need to up date my sig, my hair has more red in it now. I think I'm strawberry blond...?

Huh you would call the pictures in my sig light golden blond? I think because I was born with the white hair, darkened to a light ash blond when I was 7 or 8. When I was 13/14 I started dying my hair light blond because I thought my hair was SOOOO DARK OMG! And it was, compared to the color I use to have. I always call my natural color med or dark blond but I'm starting to rethink this. The color I have now is not really any darker then the sig, just more red and my roots seem really light in comparison.

I'm even more confused now. Maybe I have light/med blond hair not dark blond? Sigh I give up

I was told once that caucasians can not naturally have black hair, it might look black but its actually very dark brown. Only Asians (?) have black hair. Anyone know if this is true?

I was born with no hair. As a kid, it grew in white blonde, like yours, and then darkened when I was 11-12 to the 'ashy' color it is now. My older cousins were bleaching their hair (this was the 80s) so I did too, and kept bleaching/dyeing/highlighting until 2005. Like you, I thought my hair was SOOOO DARK (and felt boring and ugly with it). I wanted platinum, like I'd had as a kid.

Compared to me your hair is a light shade of medium blonde, and, like I said, I consider my hair blonde, depending on what light I am in. It is sort of the color of brown sugar, or bronze, or a mountain lion (my favorite animal). But my eyebrows are pale ash blonde, as they have always been. Yours reminds me of butterscotch, sunshine, and summer wheat - in the middle-to-paler category of blonde, for sure.

There are a lot of people here in Northern Germany with my hair color, but most women then bleach it lighter. I have been told my hair has a 'unique' color, and BF's mom (who is hair ignorant) doesn't believe I don't dye it.

As for black, I always noticed that Asian (Korean, Japanese) friends of mine really had dark brown hair (in sunlight anyway), but if I am only blonde in sunlight, maybe they are also black haired since it is only NOT black in sunlight? :)

rymorg2
January 14th, 2009, 06:12 AM
But I hear it does exist... I don't know what happens if blue-black hair gets bleached. Does it turn more bluish gray???

It does exist, but it doesn't turn bluish gray. All dark hair has more of the natural red pigment in it so it would lift the same as other black hair. It would have to lift through red first. This is why dark hair is so hard to get to blonde.

rymorg2
January 14th, 2009, 06:14 AM
I was told once that caucasians can not naturally have black hair, it might look black but its actually very dark brown. Only Asians (?) have black hair. Anyone know if this is true?

I have NEVER heard that and I'm a stylist. Tell that to my family....there are several members of my family who have natural black hair. More have natural dark brown though.

Granted, we do have Native American in our family history.

rymorg2
January 14th, 2009, 06:15 AM
I am a caramel freak, lol (eating it, I do not want it as a hair colour) but I never thought about describing it, in terms of having red in it.

I agree, with all of the variations of colours called the same thing and with people perceiving colour differently, pictures are definitely the way to go.

Thank you for making the solution so simple and practical.

Hi ktani, yep, that surprised me too, but to some of my clients caramel has a decided red tone to it. Granted it's more an orangey red....but still.

YW.....:D

Akiko
January 14th, 2009, 06:59 AM
O! Blue black turns reddish if bleached. Silly me. I thought it might turn bluish gray.

rymorg2
January 14th, 2009, 07:04 AM
O! Blue black turns reddish if bleached. Silly me. I thought it might turn bluish gray.

You would think that but that's not true.

The reason is that there are only two types of natural color molecules (melanins) that make up natural color....eumelanin and pheomelanin. Eumelanin is the black/brown, pheomelanin is the red. The different concentrations of each is what makes up natural color. So light brown may have a different amount of each compared to very light blonde.

Does that make sense?

ktani
January 14th, 2009, 07:08 AM
Hi ktani, yep, that surprised me too, but to some of my clients caramel has a decided red tone to it. Granted it's more an orangey red....but still.

YW.....:D

I understand it. It just, as you say surprised me but gold, true gold the colour, has red in it from what I understand or am I mistaken.

To me gold was/is yellow brown.

How do you define gold, the colour?

rymorg2
January 14th, 2009, 07:10 AM
I understand it. It just, as you say surprised me but gold, true gold the colour, has red in it from what I understand or am I mistaken.

To me gold was/is yellow brown.

How do you define gold, the colour?

Absolutely true gold has some red in it. :D Not much but it's there.

I would define gold as more of a brassy yellow, similar to the "real" gold, the metal. Most of the time when color companies talk about gold tones that's what they mean. But you can have some golds that are just a little brassy and some that are REALLY brassy. Golds are also always warm in tone.

ktani
January 14th, 2009, 07:22 AM
Absolutely true gold has some red in it. :D Not much but it's there.

I would define gold as more of a brassy yellow, similar to the "real" gold, the metal. Most of the time when color companies talk about gold tones that's what they mean. But you can have some golds that are just a little brassy and some that are REALLY brassy. Golds are also always warm in tone.

Thank you. Good to know. I guess I was thinking about yellow gold, which would have the least red in it.

rymorg2
January 14th, 2009, 07:26 AM
Thank you. Good to know. I guess I was thinking about yellow gold, which would have the least red in it.

You're welcome.

Akiko
January 14th, 2009, 07:28 AM
You would think that but that's not true.

The reason is that there are only two types of natural color molecules (melanins) that make up natural color....eumelanin and pheomelanin. --- Does that make sense?

Yes, it does. Great lesson on colors. Thank you, rymorg.

rymorg2
January 14th, 2009, 07:48 AM
Yes, it does. Great lesson on colors. Thank you, rymorg.

You're welcome and my pleasure Akiko....

rhubarbarin
January 14th, 2009, 08:46 AM
I was told once that caucasians can not naturally have black hair, it might look black but its actually very dark brown. Only Asians (?) have black hair. Anyone know if this is true?

Nah, it's not true. Dark brown (almost black) hair is more common than true black, IME in every race. The only way you can really tell if someone's dark hair is brown or true black is to see it in natural light..

My BF's family is Italian, and his father and brother have flat black hair. Everyone else has dark brown.

I also know a 'black Irish' family, with pale skin and flat black hair.

But the only time I've ever seen blue-black hair was on people of Asian descent.