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Ohio Sky
March 25th, 2008, 11:01 AM
I am on my third poo bar sample from CV. I know sometimes you have to try a few before you find the one you like, but this is ridiculous.
I tried Summer Sunshine last night because I have heard nary a bad thing from anyone about it, but when I woke up this morning my hair was a rats nest. Its waxy and unmanageable, and I lost a TON of hair trying to rake a comb through it. I couldnt even get it into a decent cinnabun, I ended up just balling it up on top of my head and doing a messy updo, which is going to hurt tonight :(
I really like the idea of poo bars, but my hair hasnt really been happy since I stopped using my SLS and cones about a month ago (exept the occasional wash with GR, which only lasts about a day).

Anyone out there that maybe has a similar hair type, could you share your experiences with CV bars?

Miss Murphy
March 25th, 2008, 11:08 AM
OhioSky, our hair types are pretty simmilar. I'm still adjusting to poo bars, at the moment I still have to wash more often than I would like (every 5 days instead of every 7).
Did you do a vinegar rinse? Most people reporting the waxies have skipped those. Also, I still use condishioner.

PseudoScot
March 25th, 2008, 11:09 AM
Hi there! Sorry you've been having trouble.

As far as the tangles, you could try using detangler and /or tonight you can detangle in the shower with lots of condish - that'll help make it easier to untangle.

One thing that I've had to adjust to when I change any shampoo is how much to use. I tend to focus 'poo on my scalp and use condish on the length. You might be spared some of the tangling issues if you have the length rather full of conditioner when you wash the scalp.

For example - when I use my Burt's Bees, I do need more than when I use the [very] rare sulphate shampoo. When I use a CV bar, I don't put that much on. Instead of using the bar/poo as the source of all the suds, I put on a little bit on my head and then by agitating/rubbing I make more suds. That way I don't put on more poo that I need.

Another thing you might consider is that if you've been experimenting a bit lately, you might just have some buildup. Perhaps if you clarify you could get a 'clean slate' so to speak and get a more honest result.

Also, people do use CV bars in conjunction with things, too, like ACV rinses, or HALO or certain condishes.

After you try perhaps a few ideas on how to tweak [I'm sure others will be along with more ideas] maybe CV bars just aren't for you. But maybe trying a few tweaks will help you figure that out.

Good luck!

Kirin
March 25th, 2008, 11:27 AM
I can relate to you, i have fine thin hair and i've experimented with poo bars. My hair said.... NO.

I've tried a few and come up the same way with each, waxy feeling and oily hair. Scalp oily and crown hair, ends weird, wirey dry and tangled to death. I tried the acv rinse and it worked, a little, but not entirely and eventually just stopped with them.

LOL i'm lazy, and anything that requires some other system to fix what its doing to my hair (acv rinses, and other things) is just too much hassle for me.

Ohio Sky
March 25th, 2008, 11:27 AM
OhioSky, our hair types are pretty simmilar. I'm still adjusting to poo bars, at the moment I still have to wash more often than I would like (every 5 days instead of every 7).
Did you do a vinegar rinse? Most people reporting the waxies have skipped those. Also, I still use condishioner.


I always use a vinegar rinse, and is seems to help but not much. I have tried all different dillutions, white vinegar and ACV. Still waxy and kinda stiff.

I would be happy to be able to wash only every 5 days, at this point I dont care how often I have to wash I just want my hair to be happy afterwards, even just for one day. I find that if I go 4 or 5 days in between, my hair is waxy and gross for the first 2 or 3, then its ok but not wonderful for a day, then its greasy. Time to start over.

What poo bars have worked best for you? Have you had the problems Im experiencing? What washing method works best for you., and what kind of condish do you use?

(sorry for the 20 questions :p)

Ohio Sky
March 25th, 2008, 11:31 AM
I can relate to you, i have fine thin hair and i've experimented with poo bars. My hair said.... NO.

I've tried a few and come up the same way with each, waxy feeling and oily hair. Scalp oily and crown hair, ends weird, wirey dry and tangled to death. I tried the acv rinse and it worked, a little, but not entirely and eventually just stopped with them.

LOL i'm lazy, and anything that requires some other system to fix what its doing to my hair (acv rinses, and other things) is just too much hassle for me.

Kirin, I fear I may be another one that just doesnt get along with poo bars. I still have a few samples (like 4-I really want this to work!) and I refuse to completely give up on CV until theyre all gone. But, sometimes I just wonder if I will ever find a routine that both my hair and I like :/
What do you use for shampoo, out of curiosity?

missy60
March 25th, 2008, 11:47 AM
The poo bars just didnt work for me either. My hair was so waxy and it took several washing to get it back to normal. I used vinegar everytime and I tried conditioners but I wasnt willing to stick with it after 4 washings. My hair is sort of damaged and I wasnt willing to risk breakage just to use them.

I have heard several people say that sometimes it takes awhile for your hair to adjust. So if you plan on sticking with it until you use them up you will know for sure because that could be a long while. You could send Ida an email she might have some suggestions for you. She has great customer service and is very helpful.

I continue to use the soap I love it the shampoo bars just werent for me.

doodlesmart
March 25th, 2008, 11:48 AM
We have fairly similar hair types, and I know the waxies you are talking about. One thing that people told me, but took me a while to realize is that you actually have to scrub with the poo bars. They don't just wash your hair by running through it the way sulphates do. I lather multiple times until I get a good fluffy white lather. For me, this is the signal that I'm actually clean (and won't be waxy). On lathers before this, it is just not as fluffy or nice of a lather. It can take anywhere from one to 4 lathers depending on my hair and the day. I also have to pay attention to every area of my hair, as in I wash my hair in three sections, scalp, ears to shoulder, and shoulder down, making sure I get each section clean (though I don't always wash shoulders down if my ends have been a little dry, or I only lather once there and don't go for the clean). I then follow with an ACV rinse, but I went many months without doing that as well and it worked ok, though I would still occasionally be waxy. I make my ACV rinse very very very dilute which also seems to help with the waxies. I also don't hesitate to put a little cone-free condish on the ends if they feel at all like they need it. The biggest thing for me was definitely realizing that I have to go for the white fluffy lather and that it could be a different number of lathers each day.

One other trick I do, is I take remnants of poo bars (those little pieces at the end that you can't do much with) and I stick them in a small nozzled bottle (like ones for applying hair dye), then I fill it with water shake it up and use it to get down to my scalp because my hair like to form a little shield when it gets wet, and getting the poo bars to my scalp can be hard. I just let that little piece live in the bottle dry until the next time when I add more water and repeat. It's pretty dilute, but it helps make sure I get all the way to my scalp. With slightly less hair, you might not have as much difficulty with this as I do.

Oh, and BTW I use CV lavender and spice.
I use Cowboy Magic Condish when I use condish and I wash about once a week/ 6 days depending.
I have found that since switching to poo bars I am much more in tune with my hair, if that makes any sense. I have to spend a little more time with it in the shower, so I really know how it's doing and adjust accordingly, rather than just repeating the same routine without thinking.

Madam Librarian
March 25th, 2008, 11:51 AM
My hairtype is sort of similar to yours. I guess close enough for horseshoes and hand grenades anyway.

I just couldn't get along with shampoo bars. I got sticky, tangly hair with and without vinegar rinses and conditioner. I had a couple weeks where the Olive and Babassu bar worked great, but it eventually flopped on me too. I think my water is too hard. It is very, very hard and very alkaline.

I do use a couple of the CV bars on my face from time to time, and the flopped shampoo bars do double duty as hand/body soap too. :)

I was sad that shampoo bars wouldn't work out for me. I travel a bunch and was so excited to replace my shampoo and conditioner with a bar of soap.

Silver & Gold
March 25th, 2008, 12:01 PM
I had the same problems you describe when I started using the bars a month or two ago. I wanted to eliminate the possibility of the problem being due to my water so I had my daughter, husband and son use them as well. They had immediate success and loved them. They all experience more body and less fly aways with the CV bars.
But the first time I used one my hair was a crazy, tangled mess. I had been using cones and had also used a commercial hair gloss. I suspected my problems were due to the build up. So I approached the problem from that angle.
I found clarifying is taking quite some time for me. It's almost as if I were chipping away at the build up like trying to remove nail polish without nail polish remover if this makes sense. It seemed each time that there was less tangle but still, my hair went crazy. I am getting through the adjustment period by using ACV/Citric Acid rinses and also using conditioner to help detangle the mess. I've got to the point where I need to use these less and less.
One thing I think has helped me a lot has been the cassia treatments. I suspect that cassia is helping to strip of some of that buildup as well as the occasional clarifying shampoo.
Another factor I'm dealing with is that I have previously color treated hair that is more porous so I imagine once I get to the point where I have more virgin hair exposed I will find that I only have to condition the ends and the rest of my hair will be happy with the CV bars.
The rest of my family does fine just using the bars with no ACV rinse or conditioner.

Miss Murphy
March 25th, 2008, 12:41 PM
I always use a vinegar rinse, and is seems to help but not much. I have tried all different dillutions, white vinegar and ACV. Still waxy and kinda stiff.

I would be happy to be able to wash only every 5 days, at this point I dont care how often I have to wash I just want my hair to be happy afterwards, even just for one day. I find that if I go 4 or 5 days in between, my hair is waxy and gross for the first 2 or 3, then its ok but not wonderful for a day, then its greasy. Time to start over.

What poo bars have worked best for you? Have you had the problems Im experiencing? What washing method works best for you., and what kind of condish do you use?

(sorry for the 20 questions :p)

So far I have tried marshmallow/babassu, mud and clay, rosemary mint, lavender spice and chamomile citrus. I have yet to try summer sunshine, rosemary lavender aloe, and nettle.

I can't really tell a difference between the bars yet. I haven't had the waxies, but I do have greasy-looking strands of hair. Strangely enough though, that's only from the ears down. I think I need to shampoo my lengths more, I'm just so used to harsh SLS poos, where just the suds running down my length is enough.

I use cone-free condish right now, but I'm not sure a cone one would be better or worse.

HTH! :blossom:

Ohio Sky
March 25th, 2008, 12:58 PM
We have fairly similar hair types, and I know the waxies you are talking about. One thing that people told me, but took me a while to realize is that you actually have to scrub with the poo bars. They don't just wash your hair by running through it the way sulphates do. I lather multiple times until I get a good fluffy white lather. For me, this is the signal that I'm actually clean (and won't be waxy). On lathers before this, it is just not as fluffy or nice of a lather. It can take anywhere from one to 4 lathers depending on my hair and the day. I also have to pay attention to every area of my hair, as in I wash my hair in three sections, scalp, ears to shoulder, and shoulder down, making sure I get each section clean (though I don't always wash shoulders down if my ends have been a little dry, or I only lather once there and don't go for the clean). I then follow with an ACV rinse, but I went many months without doing that as well and it worked ok, though I would still occasionally be waxy. I make my ACV rinse very very very dilute which also seems to help with the waxies. I also don't hesitate to put a little cone-free condish on the ends if they feel at all like they need it. The biggest thing for me was definitely realizing that I have to go for the white fluffy lather and that it could be a different number of lathers each day.

Doodle, I dont really have a problem with the ends being greasy or getting clean. Usually when I wash its because my scalp is oily but my ends arent usually unless I over oil. Im usually ok with how the length of my hair looks until after i wash. I dont have a problem getting my scalp clean, and am usually happy with my hair from the nape/ears up. Maybe I shouldnt wash at all below that, or try condish?

Silver & Gold, I used both th marshmallow and babassu and honey beer and egg on DD4 when they didnt work for me. I have no idea if our water is hard but I figured there had to be some reason for it so I tried it on her with a ver mild ACV rinse, no condish, and her hair was so happy. I gues the method I was using works for her but not for me.

Shell
March 25th, 2008, 01:04 PM
I didn't like the Sunshine one, my fave is the Babassu & Marsh Mallow. Have you tried Prairieland Herbs Shampoo bars? I like Rosemary and Nettle best in those, but Aloe Fresh is nice too.

HappyKarin
March 25th, 2008, 01:06 PM
When I first started using the bars it was ok for about 9 month. Then my hair became mad and get all brittle and tangly.
I switched to cone shampoo and conditioner without SLS. But my scalp loves the bars so I tried several thing and now they are working better then ever.
I use them with cone conditioner, I have realize that my hair really needs cones.
And it seems that your hair needs cone because your chemical treatment. Try to lather more then one time, use ACV and cone conditioner.

KatKeRo
March 25th, 2008, 01:33 PM
I use PLHbars.
I wet my hair down, slide a few times with my bar over my hair, wash and rinse untill it sqeecks (sp?). No waxy feeling afterwards. Once in a blue moon I use a citricacidrinse.

Ohio Sky
March 25th, 2008, 04:19 PM
No 'c' in squeeks, KatKeRo :) I hate it when you go to type or write a word you know you know but it just doesnt look right, lol.

I think maybe the next time I try a po bar I will use my cones afterwords. I know my hair likes cones, I just dont want to deal with chemical build up. I guess if thats what I have to do to have happy hair, I will do...

Shell
March 25th, 2008, 04:26 PM
No 'c' in squeeks, KatKeRo :) I hate it when you go to type or write a word you know you know but it just doesnt look right, lol.



I like it with a "c."

Patrycja
March 25th, 2008, 06:34 PM
OhioSky I've heard of some people that didn't like CV bars,no matter what kind they tried.I use PLH bars like KatKeRo and haven't had a complaint about it yet.There was a real bad waxy first week but with the right dilution of ACV,I was right on the money.I also used a heavy cone(after I learned that nocone wasn't working for me)after the rinsing of the ACV.Do you use oils? I'm glad you have ordered just samples of the bars,I did jumped head first and ended up getting a nice out come with PLH Patchuli bar.

I did have another problem with the greasies a day after I washed when it takes me 3-4 days with commercial poo.Little did I know,its bc the commercial shampoo is that much drying.Anyway-I found that a ACV in a HUGE cup from McDonalds colored the slightest color of amber(I'm talking the slightest color you can get with it being in there)it did me wonders.I love poo bars and I'm really hoping you'll find the right one.

manderly
March 25th, 2008, 08:25 PM
It took me about a month or so to get on with my bars. And some still give me wicked waxies (coffee, eww).

I love the lavendar rosemary aloe, lavendar mint, and the olive babassu.

Try doing a modified CWC with your bars. I always condish after my poo bar, or my hair is like a big old mat. I've begun conditioning my length, and then rubbing my bar all around my scalp, lathering that up a few times. And lathering at least 2 or 3 times is the difference between waxy eww and lovely soft hair.

And, of course, some people just don't get along with poo bars. They may not be for you.

sapphire-o
March 25th, 2008, 08:44 PM
It looks like all the bars you mentioned are the more moisturizing type. I know my hair doesn't like moisturizing stuff. I usually brag that my hair doesn't tangle and detangling is optional, until I tried the babassu and marshmallow shampoo bar. It was waxy and tangly. There's too much oil in that and my hair didn't like it at all. To me, moisturizing stuff = tangles and dull hair.

I nearly gave up on shampoo bars after my first CV order. I got egg beer and honey which made my hair stiff, babassu made it tangly, and nettle which made my hair shed like crazy, none of them got my scalp exactly clean. I took a break and ordered some different bars a few months later and they all worked for me well. Now I use shampoo bars all the time, the ones that work for me. :) It really takes some trials to figure out what works for your hair. Thank goodness they have sample size.

ETA: I gave my reject shampoo bars to DH and his hair couldn't be happier. No problem at all. He uses cone-free conditioner after shampoo. I guess his hair likes moisture. Exactly how he can like moisture when we live in a place that rains every single day is a mystery to me, but apparently that's just how it worked.

Ashley
March 26th, 2008, 06:28 AM
I think so, too. My hair is much, much better now since I changed my vinegar dilution, have you ever played with that?

I'm going to see how different bars work on my hair. The Café Moreno is lovely for me at the moment, but I've read several negative experiences with that one.

I guess it really depends on finding the right balance of vinager dilution, the particular bars you use, and your water's softness.

lora410
March 26th, 2008, 06:52 AM
Have your tried it with the Apple cider vinegar instead of the white yet? It took some time for my hair to adjust because I had TONS of cone buildup. I used the soap lady of Oregon bars though and haven't tried my CV bars yet. her nourishing rose is awesome!! Once in awhile I use a cone-free condish. Also have you tried a light oiling after you wash with the bar? This helps me out alot.

Calista
March 26th, 2008, 07:47 AM
Every shampoo bar should get your hair reasonably clean, even if your hair is not happy afterwards. If your hair is waxy and tangly to the point that you canīt get a comb through thereīs something wrong.

My advice is to clarify first. I use baking soda dissolved in conditioner. Add a little water until you have a paste and use this like you would use regular shampoo. I recommend to do your entire hair so as to get a clean start. Then take a shampoo bar and lather up really well (lots of great advice here in this thread already. You could also read my article on the use of shampoo bars in the articles section.). The important thing is to massage. With shampoo bars you need a greater amount of mechanical cleansing as they are much gentler than commercial shampoo. Rinse and repeat and rinse and repeat (at least thatīs what *I* do. You might not like or need to lather this often, although I am of the opinion that you should lather up at least twice.). Do your vinegar rinse much stronger than you did before. I do a dilution of 1 in 10, and you might need to go even stronger, depending on your water. Pour it over your head slowly. Let it sit for a little while and kind of "pat" it into your scalp. Do a final rinse.

This should give you clean but probably somewhat dry hair. The clarifying needs to be done only the first time, of course, not on every occasion you wash your hair. Oh, and if your hair is partial to conditioner you might want to throw in a round of condish somewhere along the line - probably after the shampoo but before the vinegar rinse. If you think you need to use a cone condish by all means do so. It wonīt hurt.

I hope this helps some. :flower:

Miss Murphy
March 26th, 2008, 10:05 AM
Calista - great answer! As you are in Germany: where do you buy your baking soda? I think it's not readily available in supermarkets, and I'd like to try a clarifying.

Calista
March 26th, 2008, 01:43 PM
Miss Murphy, in Germany baking soda is available under the brand name of "Kaiser Natron" - itīs a green package, somewhat old-fashioned looking, and it is to be found in the health aisle of our drugstore.

atlantaz3
March 26th, 2008, 02:04 PM
I guess I just didn't have enough patience with poo bars. I tried three and never felt like my hair was clean. If I still have one buried in the closet (only ordered samples) I might try clarifying and give it one more shot.

helanek
March 27th, 2008, 01:19 AM
one thing that might work for you is mixing bars. i ordered full sized shampoos right away. some of them are better for my hair, some for my scalp... i figured that they all have something good for me. :) i have few different ones. i cut each in three parts and i randomly pull a couple from my ceramic box i store them in. it seems to work much better then using the same one all the time. also i alternate acv - only use in half washes. my hair is very picky and i have SD and it works wonders! :)

Miss Murphy
March 27th, 2008, 02:26 AM
Miss Murphy, in Germany baking soda is available under the brand name of "Kaiser Natron" - itīs a green package, somewhat old-fashioned looking, and it is to be found in the health aisle of our drugstore.

Thanks Calista! I've honestly never seen that, but then again I live in Austria :silly:
I've researched that the ingredient is Natriumhydrogencarbonat, so I'll check out if that's the same as "Waschsoda", which I think it is. ETA: no, it isn't - it's Natriumcarbonat, without the hydrogen part.
I also have some Kaiser Borax at home, but that's something else too, I think.

Calista
March 27th, 2008, 03:53 AM
Miss Murphy, this (http://www.purenature.de/shop/a246/kaiser_natron.html) link shows a picture of the package.

Miss Murphy
March 27th, 2008, 04:15 AM
Thanks Calista! I already google'd it - and I can't seem to remember to have seen it anywhere (even though we're so close - just ask me how difficult it is to get Malzbier here!).
I'm going to drop by my local drugstore on the way home. If they don't have it, I'm sure to get some at my pharmacy (albeit more expensive, I'm sure).

Ohio Sky
March 27th, 2008, 12:24 PM
It looks like all the bars you mentioned are the more moisturizing type. I know my hair doesn't like moisturizing stuff. I usually brag that my hair doesn't tangle and detangling is optional, until I tried the babassu and marshmallow shampoo bar. It was waxy and tangly. There's too much oil in that and my hair didn't like it at all. To me, moisturizing stuff = tangles and dull hair.



Do you still use CV bars? I ordered the most moisturizing because well, my hair was dry when I was using SLS (duh) lol. I tried to order a bigger variety this time so hopefully one of them will work.

I think maybe I just shouldnt use it on my length. Ill try cones next wash day. Oh wait, that was this morning... Hmm...

sapphire-o
March 27th, 2008, 03:06 PM
Yes I still use CV bars. I use mostly herb garden, summer sunshine, chamomile and citrus, occasionally rosemary mint. Mud and clay is supposed to be cleansing, too but I haven't tried it. Nettle works perfectly except I shed a lot so I stopped using it.

I lather up 3 times with all these bars and massage everywhere or my scalp doesn't feel totally clean. I guess I'm a bit on the oily side. When I first started I was lathering up twice and I had all sorts of flakes and itchies.

Ohio Sky
March 27th, 2008, 04:18 PM
Hmm everyone seems to say that about nettle, though its recommended for thinning hair. wierd.

I think next time I wash Im going to minimally wash 1/2 of my head and scrub the bejesus out of the other half, and see which fares better lol.

Natalia
July 4th, 2009, 07:32 PM
Ive been thinking of trying poo bars for occasional use between COing. Im ingredient picky and sensitive to alot of things so COing will be expensiv for me if i ever wash more then once or maybe twice a week. This thread and the massive poo par thread are great referances :D. Thank you all for sharing!

Moonstruck
July 4th, 2009, 10:45 PM
I know you said you tried tons of different dilutions for vinegar, but in my opinion, getting waxies is almost always indicative of mineral residue left over from hard water. Have you ever tried SOAKING your hair in the vinegar rinse for a few seconds, and then pouring/working it into the hair? With some of my more moisturizing bars I need to do just that in order to not get waxies.

I also think that citrus chamomile =my loveeeee. Haha! I used to think I had dry hair until I went off sulfates, and realized that geez, my hair is OILY compared to many of my friends. More moisturizing bars wreak havoc on my hair - it gets tangly and uncooperative and lank.
Btw, Nettle = HUGE SHED. Like, sheds of doom and horror. >.<

rossjen
July 5th, 2009, 11:55 AM
After using shampoo bars a good amount of time (about a year) and trying multiple methods to deal with the waxiness and residue (vinegar rinses of various strengths, multiple latherings, etc...), I finally had to admit defeat because my results were never consistent. I think it is all due to the water. I've decided to only try it again when I get around to installing a shower filter. I hope you find a solution.