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View Full Version : Another take on silicones vs. build-up.



Hypnotica
December 15th, 2008, 12:29 AM
I'm a regular reader at thebeautybrains.com and I happened to stumble on a very interesting thread on their forum about silicones and buildup.

http://www.thebeautybrains.com/vanilla/comments.php?DiscussionID=521&page=1#Item_6

Left Brain wrote a very interesting post about build-up:


More troubling in hair care products than silicones are Cationic Polymers. These ingredients like Guar Hydroxypropyl Trimonium Chloride or Polyquaternium-10 have been demonstrated to build up on hair. They ionically bond to hair and you do need to shampoo more to get them off. Silicones don't stick nearly as well as those ingredients.

I wonder why there is no controversy about Cationic Polymers?

Iylivarae
December 15th, 2008, 05:52 AM
I don't buy any shampoos with (Poly)quaterniums, because I've heard that they have similar coating characteristics as silicones. I didn't know about the Guar Hydroxypropyl Trimonium Chloride, but as I only buy organic products, this is of no concern for me.

Curlsgirl
December 15th, 2008, 05:54 AM
Very interesting! I had no idea. I guess I need to check my products for these ingredients. Thanks for sharing!

Wouter
December 15th, 2008, 06:38 AM
I clarified my hair after 7 months of growing and useing the same shampoo, my hair felt so bad before. Its actually quite soft now.

Anyhow I check the shampoo bottle, guess what? indeed polyquaternium-10 and Hydroxypropyl Trimonium Chloride.
I know that 7 months without clarifying is a long time, but I'm quite happy to have found the reason of the build up (I use a herbal conditioner so it werent cones)

Thank you very much for this!

Carina
December 15th, 2008, 07:52 AM
Thank you so much for the info Hypnotica.I have a hard time with proteins right now.I have given my hair way to much protein and don't know how to fix it.I get so confused over the chemical issues.Wish I knew what my hair wants.

Akiko
December 15th, 2008, 09:41 AM
Oh, no... VO5 Moisture Milks Strawberries & Cream shampoo has Guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium. Is that really that bad?

Hypnotica
December 15th, 2008, 02:16 PM
I don't think it's that bad, just that you need something else besides poo to clarify your hair.

Aisha25
December 15th, 2008, 02:43 PM
Oh no my shampoo has Guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride in it too. I dont know what to do almost every shampoo in this town has these ingredients:rolleyes:

Tressie
December 15th, 2008, 09:23 PM
Wow! Thanks Hypnotica! I'm with Curlsgirl, I had no idea! I'm going to have to put a small magnifying glass in my purse, because the ingredients information is so small on most hair care bottles these days. I swear they are writing smaller and smaller...........every year!! (o:

Thanks for the information. Knowlege is power.........right?? (o:

MandaMom2Three
December 15th, 2008, 09:36 PM
Great! So what would be needed to clarify this stuff from your hair?

HairColoredHair
December 15th, 2008, 10:02 PM
... baking soda, maybe?

Hypnotica
December 15th, 2008, 11:58 PM
Well, baking soda does work for me but some people's hair will turn very dry from it. But Left Brain states that you can get by with just shampooing more.

(I think we need a chemist here at LHC. Srsly!)

Dianyla
December 16th, 2008, 12:00 AM
I've seen the occasional reference here and there to people who choose to avoid quats as well as cones, I seem to recall Fia talking about these in her journal long ago.

Hypnotica
December 16th, 2008, 12:21 AM
I've seen the occasional reference here and there to people who choose to avoid quats as well as cones, I seem to recall Fia talking about these in her journal long ago.

Yes, I've see those references before but didn't really understand why people would avoid quats. Now I do :)

SolSara
December 16th, 2008, 12:44 AM
This was new to me. At the lockig.se (swedish curlygirl-site) we have been aware of polyquarts some time, but only the ones with higher numbers (over 30-40 something). But I had no idea about the Guar....Chloride.. have to check my bottles.. :) I guess none of these really is a problem if you use shampoo regularly, but for us going CO, it is good knowledge. :)

Katze
December 16th, 2008, 04:03 AM
sorry, what is the issue again? That they cause buildup?

Hypnotica
December 16th, 2008, 04:18 AM
sorry, what is the issue again? That they cause buildup?

Yes. In a sneaky way.

DecafJane
December 16th, 2008, 05:14 AM
Wow, that is really good information - thanks for sharing!

It looks like I have yet another reason to steer clear of the non-plant-based products. :)

Calanthe
December 16th, 2008, 08:17 AM
Wow. Thanks for sharing. As I'm all organic/natural it's not a problem for me, but I will pass this on to my mum. Might be the reason she's so unhappy with her hair.

MandaMom2Three
December 16th, 2008, 09:46 AM
Oh snap. I don't fancy using baking soda on my hair :( . I wonder would just a little bit added to my shampoo do the trick?

Carina
December 16th, 2008, 10:51 AM
Why do I feel a need to make a list with bad ingredients before I buy my next bottle of schampo or conditioner:crazyq:?I think it's hard to remember all those names.Don't you??????

Aisha25
December 16th, 2008, 11:09 AM
Why do I feel a need to make a list with bad ingredients before I buy my next bottle of schampo or conditioner:crazyq:?I think it's hard to remember all those names.Don't you??????
I know so many bad things that come in these its hard to know what to buy:rolleyes:

Carina
December 16th, 2008, 11:19 AM
Exactly!!!My brain gets a meltdown standing at the haircare aisle.My hair is very picky when it comes to cones proteins and scents.But to keep it all in my head is more than I can handle.

mellie
December 16th, 2008, 11:51 AM
And even "Natural" or "Organic" shampoos still contain some of these problem ingredients too! You really do have to pull out the magnifying glass. I've given up on any commercial shampoos completely - even the "Organic" ones.

GibsonGirlV
December 16th, 2008, 01:04 PM
Oh dear...something else to check my bottles for. *sigh* time to pull them out for a gander...

Thanks for sharing this important information. The Beauty Brains is a wonderful resource. Sometimes they can be a little harsh on us natural-product lovers, but they provide important information...actually now that I think about it, i think it was a link to LHC on the beautybrains site that first brought me here!

GibsonGirlV
December 16th, 2008, 01:20 PM
:eye:Thank goodness, everything seems to pass muster

Trader Joe's Nourish shampoo and conditioner :check:
Biolage Conditioning Balm :check:
Deva Blonde No-poo :check:
Vo5 hairdressing :check:

The only thing i wonder about is my Vo5 free me freesia conditioner. I don't use it too often because it's too thin to be very moisturizing my hair, but I used to use it for CO. Some of the ingredients seem frightening similar to the ones Left Brain mentions...
-cetrimonium chloride
-stearalokonium chloride
-tocopheryl acetate

I wonder if there is a source that provides a full list of these nasty ingredients.

I agree that it's pretty ridiculous trying to find "safe" products to use on hair. Unfortunately for me it's hard to get to a health food store besides trader joes, which makes things even more difficult. Thankfully it seems like I'm safe for now.

spidermom
December 16th, 2008, 01:26 PM
Oh snap. I don't fancy using baking soda on my hair :( . I wonder would just a little bit added to my shampoo do the trick?

Oh my; no - a thousand times no. I once did that and it made the cuticle on my hair stand up so bad that all of my hair matted together. No lie. I couldn't get a comb or my fingers through it unless it was wet and full of conditioner. It took 2 weeks for my hair to return to normal. However, when I mixed about 1 tbsp of baking soda into a pitcher (2-3 quarts) of warm water and slowly poured it over my scalp and through my hair, it did a good job without matting my hair together.

As long as you use shampoo to wash your hair, buildup shouldn't be a problem.

MandaMom2Three
December 16th, 2008, 01:37 PM
Spidermom- The only shampooing I'd been doing was a by weekly clarifying. I've decided to shampoo with a milder shampoo once a week to try and space out the clarifying more. I used Aussie Volumizing shampoo last night, felt good but looked at the ingredients and it has polyquaternium-10 in it :( . Even though it's an ingredient, would it still remove the build up?

MandaMom2Three
December 16th, 2008, 01:43 PM
The only thing i wonder about is my Vo5 free me freesia conditioner.

Ok that's weird! I just bought aberto balsam Herbal escapes conditioner. It says "free me freesia" and the little trademark symbol. Do we have a copyright issue here or is this the same product under a different brand name? I've looked for Vo5 products here and except for the hot oil, notta. Maybe it just goes by a different name in Canada:confused:

boomygrrl
December 16th, 2008, 03:49 PM
VO5 is Alberto VO5...so same company.

HairColoredHair
December 16th, 2008, 03:56 PM
VO5 is Alberto VO5...so same company.

Exactly... It's marketed as V05 in the US, Alberto in Canada. :)

teela1978
December 16th, 2008, 04:07 PM
The only thing i wonder about is my Vo5 free me freesia conditioner. I don't use it too often because it's too thin to be very moisturizing my hair, but I used to use it for CO. Some of the ingredients seem frightening similar to the ones Left Brain mentions...
-cetrimonium chloride
-stearalokonium chloride
-tocopheryl acetate


I think you're okay. Cetrimonium chloride and stearalokonium chloride are conditioners, and tocopheryl acetate is a fancy name for vitamin E. There are a few websites that explain ingredients... I usually just google though.

MandaMom2Three
December 16th, 2008, 04:11 PM
tre cool 8)

boomygrrl
December 16th, 2008, 04:15 PM
With build up of polyquats, silicone, protein...and whatever else is out there, I've decided to add shampoo into my routine, although not everyday. To me, I just need an occasional "clarifying."