Indian herb washing

[mira-chan]

I found a copy of the article in livejournal (Thank you to whoever made that copy).

http://journals.fotki.com/dreamy1/

[Shell]

This article is abridged. For the complete article you can view the original wiki (http://bath-n-beauty.laurieashton.com/wiki/index.php?title=Using_Indian_Herbs_for_Hair_Care).

As soon as we have an articles section up and running I'll republish the complete article.

Thanks mira-chan for starting this thread!

[icydove]

I see the article is up now.

I was a little disappointed when I opened the thread. I thought it was our on-going discussion of Indian herb washing ;)

[ChloeDharma]

Well Icydove we'd best get posting here then ;)

I'm just trying to convert a friend of mine to herb washing who has dreads but never uses products cos regular products really irritate his skin. I gave him some shikakai, amla and brahmi mixed up to use, and a tub of coconut oil with rosemary and lavender EO's in to see how he gets on with it.

[tiny_teesha]

I have a question. How long do the herbs stay before the conditioning effects are seen. Is it as simple as pour in rinse out right away???
My hair has dried up since i've started herbs. It is really very confusing to me!!!
I firstly put a teaspoon in a plastic cup and fill it with recently boiled water (from a thermus) hot enough to melt the cup a bit!!! haha
Then i leave it 15 minutes and hop in the shower, pour through, leave it for about 30 seconds - 2 minutes then rinse. My hair feels slippery while rinseing, then if i rinse too much it is dry. Should i stop while it is still slippery? I strain the herbs also, unless it is really fine stuff, like neem. I normally use neem (for the germ killing after work)
Any pointers on what i should do to add moisture? I use a henna wax mask too and occasionally add some honey, i've started conditioning after and i do use coconut oil a lot. I ACV rinse also.

[mira-chan]

I have a question. How long do the herbs stay before the conditioning effects are seen. Is it as simple as pour in rinse out right away???
My hair has dried up since i've started herbs. It is really very confusing to me!!!
I firstly put a teaspoon in a plastic cup and fill it with recently boiled water (from a thermus) hot enough to melt the cup a bit!!! haha
Then i leave it 15 minutes and hop in the shower, pour through, leave it for about 30 seconds - 2 minutes then rinse. My hair feels slippery while rinseing, then if i rinse too much it is dry. Should i stop while it is still slippery? I strain the herbs also, unless it is really fine stuff, like neem. I normally use neem (for the germ killing after work)
Any pointers on what i should do to add moisture? I use a henna wax mask too and occasionally add some honey, i've started conditioning after and i do use coconut oil a lot. I ACV rinse also.

Try using flower herbs instead of green herbs. They tend to be more moisturizing. For me how long I leave a herbs on depends on the herb and what form I'm using it in. Neem I have as a powder so I use it in mud form in a mix with other things and will leave it on about 30 minutes. Tea form, some I actually pour in and leave in, others I do the 2 minute wait then rinse out thing you do. Depending on my mood and hair condition.

[Shell]

I have a question. How long do the herbs stay before the conditioning effects are seen. Is it as simple as pour in rinse out right away???
My hair has dried up since i've started herbs. It is really very confusing to me!!!
I firstly put a teaspoon in a plastic cup and fill it with recently boiled water (from a thermus) hot enough to melt the cup a bit!!! haha
Then i leave it 15 minutes and hop in the shower, pour through, leave it for about 30 seconds - 2 minutes then rinse. My hair feels slippery while rinseing, then if i rinse too much it is dry. Should i stop while it is still slippery? I strain the herbs also, unless it is really fine stuff, like neem. I normally use neem (for the germ killing after work)
Any pointers on what i should do to add moisture? I use a henna wax mask too and occasionally add some honey, i've started conditioning after and i do use coconut oil a lot. I ACV rinse also.

Do you pre-wash oil? That's recommended it you use shikakai or amla. Coconut oil is traditional, but you can try any oil that your hair likes.

[tiny_teesha]

Yep i always coconut oil (hair loves it!) after a shower, very heavily, so it gets socked in for the few days, then there is still enough left on. I use it a little if my hair is tangly- that is its way of saying it needs more oil.
I know hibiscus is a flower herb, and chamomile. But i want to use neem to kill the germs after the pet shop.

Ok so i gather there are different methods, but which is better for conditioning. The longer i leave it in??
I won't wash my hair till tommorow. I think i will oil it heavily tonight, wear it in a braided bun and then come home and wash it- it will still be full of oil- i think i will do neem, chamomile, amla and hibiscus. Maybe some fenugreek. I will make a honey and ACV rinse and hopefully all will go well! Then the next day when i have to wash after i will use a aloe and honey mask. I'm trying to pump in more moisture!!

[mira-chan]

Yep i always coconut oil (hair loves it!) after a shower, very heavily, so it gets socked in for the few days, then there is still enough left on. I use it a little if my hair is tangly- that is its way of saying it needs more oil.
I know hibiscus is a flower herb, and chamomile. But i want to use neem to kill the germs after the pet shop.

Ok so i gather there are different methods, but which is better for conditioning. The longer i leave it in??
I won't wash my hair till tommorow. I think i will oil it heavily tonight, wear it in a braided bun and then come home and wash it- it will still be full of oil- i think i will do neem, chamomile, amla and hibiscus. Maybe some fenugreek. I will make a honey and ACV rinse and hopefully all will go well! Then the next day when i have to wash after i will use a aloe and honey mask. I'm trying to pump in more moisture!!

Be careful about putting in too much at once. In my experience adding both hibiscus and fenugreek in a mix together produces instant overconditioning (icky limp gunked up hair) response. Separately they work just fine. I've tried only fenugreek, and only hibiscus, no problem. But even in the most concentrated (drying) shikakai and aritha mix if I put bot of them together I get the above problem.

[Koala Kim]

Oh my gosh! I never knew some of you had compiled an article on Indian herb washing and had submitted it to wiki.
You all are so awesome :hollie:

[ChloeDharma]

I wish we still had the indian haircare thread, that was a serious mine of information.....i did actually save it to my PC sometime in October so it was really long, but my PC died so i don't have it :(

[tiny_teesha]

mira-chan, so you are saying by me mixing multiple herbs that dont get along may be the problem of my hair being all dry and unsoft?

[khyricat]

hrm.. I use hibiscus/elderflower as a rinse and leave in.. its just a VERY strongly brewed tea- I put a handful of each type of leaves in a 3 qt pot and fill with water, then bring to a boil, lower and simmer for 10-20 minutes, leave to cool, and strain..

Amie

[mira-chan]

mira-chan, so you are saying by me mixing multiple herbs that dont get along may be the problem of my hair being all dry and unsoft?

It depends on the hair and the herbs. The dryness is more likely to be a reaction of too few conditioning herbs/ too much drying ones or not enough oil, pre-oiling. Its the overconditioning/ gunky hair that is likely to be an incompatibility between the herbs in the mix and/ or incompatibility of a certain herb your hair.

[tiny_teesha]

thank you mirachan. i made a wonder-mask, but i , lol, didnt shampoo it out. Somehow its left me with oily roots and dry ends (which i applied the mask on the bottom half. Weird huh?! That may be "my" oil, i was greasy and i did a neem rinse. And it made my roots all springy!!! :) It was a nice feeling. That is only where the neem poder hit my scalp (the top) I think tommorow i may do a neem paste (as in shampoo consistancy) I need some starch. Is rice or corn or any starch preferred?

[mira-chan]

I wouldn't recommend rice or potato starch. There is a reason they are used as glue in museums to mount painting.

Corn starch works fine. If you can find arrowroot powder/ starch that is great too and is conditioning. Plus it woun't break down with more heat (if you boil it a bit) unlike corn starch.

[tiny_teesha]

Ill try fins some corn/arrorow root starch, something tells me that corn will be easier!
Thank you so much mira-chan, you are so knowlegable!!!! THANK YOU!

[khyricat]

cornstarch and arrowroot are great, I also have used acacia powder/gum arabic in my henna mix in an emergency.. works the same way...

I have a question- I use a cassia based poo bar. I also have some straight cassia, I have been wondering if I might get a good cleansing from the cassia itself in some mix.. anyone have suggestions/experience? I am not quite ready (with DH on med leave and no answer yet on his disability claim) to spend money on shakakai/amla, etc if I'm not sure if they'll work.. if i had a local source for small amounts to test that would be different.

Amie

[mira-chan]

I've used applications of henna or cassia as a wash. Actually I don't think I've ever done either one on freshly cleaned hair. They clear things up quite well. To note, my hair is naturally dry but I've cleared oiling with the above.

[khyricat]

mira chan- when you used cassia to clean your hair, have you just mixed it with water/tea and then applied, worked through and rinsed, or did you leave it on? I'd like to find something that didn't need to be left in, but am going to try Tues night I think.. cleaning crew comes Weds, so this way they can be responsible for cleaning the tub out after.

[mira-chan]

mira chan- when you used cassia to clean your hair, have you just mixed it with water/tea and then applied, worked through and rinsed, or did you leave it on? I'd like to find something that didn't need to be left in, but am going to try Tues night I think.. cleaning crew comes Weds, so this way they can be responsible for cleaning the tub out after.

I left it in for a while, just like a regular cassia or henna treatment.

[Deliciosa]

i am really following this thread, and for me as a herb-junky (dont you dare admitting something funny now ;):D:p) i really couldnt resist on convincing my boyfriend (british) to getme some of the mentioned herbs in a indian-herb shop in London- what a darlingboy, allthough he hates the smell of cassia in my hair :D (not to mention that it is a pain in the bummy to get the herbs in Germany or to afford them, my bf just paid less then half of the price i would had to pay *yay*)
Anyway...so i am counting down the days to when i can use my first herb-wash.
One question is left: In Germany we have a so called "neutral henna". Honestly i would say it is Cassia, cause my books about herbs say that henna will always add redishness to your hair, doesnt matter when it was harvested (just the amount...how much redishness it adds...will change and depend on the harvestingtime). But internet says differently...in spring henna might not have colour ressources said. Or that the leaves of an old plant wont dye aswell...oh my soooo confusing...

[mira-chan]

i am really following this thread, and for me as a herb-junky (dont you dare admitting something funny now ;):D:p) i really couldnt resist on convincing my boyfriend (british) to getme some of the mentioned herbs in a indian-herb shop in London- what a darlingboy, allthough he hates the smell of cassia in my hair :D (not to mention that it is a pain in the bummy to get the herbs in Germany or to afford them, my bf just paid less then half of the price i would had to pay *yay*)
Anyway...so i am counting down the days to when i can use my first herb-wash.
One question is left: In Germany we have a so called "neutral henna". Honestly i would say it is Cassia, cause my books about herbs say that henna will always add redishness to your hair, doesnt matter when it was harvested (just the amount...how much redishness it adds...will change and depend on the harvestingtime). But internet says differently...in spring henna might not have colour ressources said. Or that the leaves of an old plant wont dye aswell...oh my soooo confusing...

We probably have the same Neurtal Henna in Russian markets, usually Iranian. It's cassia. It doesn't smell like henna, doesn't have any red dye but has a yellowish tint on white things or pale hair.

[Shell]

Arrowroot is usually available in the herb and spices section of the grocery store.

[tiny_teesha]

I haven't been able to find either...
is corn flour ok, or does it have to be the starch? i found corn flour (haven't bought it though i'm going to look in exotic food stores next)

[ChloeDharma]

I haven't been able to find either...
is corn flour ok, or does it have to be the starch? i found corn flour (haven't bought it though i'm going to look in exotic food stores next)

If i remember right, Brunette uses cornflour.....she brews up the herbs then strains them and adds cornflour to thicken. Says it works just fine.

[khyricat]

the only thing I'd be worried about with cornflour is it can be used to make a form of glue.. so make sure you rinse well.. corn starch, potato starch, and arrowroot powder are all thickening agents without that concern..

[tiny_teesha]

thank you for letting me know. I'll do another hunt and pick out the best one i find i suppose!

[tiny_teesha]

i found arrow root flour and corn starch and they were cheap so i bought them both!
I'll see which works better!

[tiny_teesha]

I used it, hehe, i put loaddds in! How much do you need, sheesh!

I also did this....try it out....when yo put loads of corn starch with water or the herb tea so that it is really thick, play with it! its fun. If you hit it with force it acts like a solid, if you treat it softly it acts like a liquid....
for example i jabbed it hard with a spoon and the sppo bounced off, if you place the spoon on top it sinks in. If you wobble it it moves like a liquid, if you use the spoon under it and lift fast it clumps up like a lump of sugar then it slowly just drips off!!! its cool. Youtube it! there was these 2 guys who filled a giant pool up with it and ran on water!!! then they sat still and they sunk in! it was funny!

Anyway..my hair felt sooooo soft!!! :)

[mira-chan]

I used it, hehe, i put loaddds in! How much do you need, sheesh!

I also did this....try it out....when yo put loads of corn starch with water or the herb tea so that it is really thick, play with it! its fun. If you hit it with force it acts like a solid, if you treat it softly it acts like a liquid....
for example i jabbed it hard with a spoon and the sppo bounced off, if you place the spoon on top it sinks in. If you wobble it it moves like a liquid, if you use the spoon under it and lift fast it clumps up like a lump of sugar then it slowly just drips off!!! its cool. Youtube it! there was these 2 guys who filled a giant pool up with it and ran on water!!! then they sat still and they sunk in! it was funny!

Anyway..my hair felt sooooo soft!!! :)

The pool thing was probably from Mythbusters series.

I put in about 2 to 3 very full spoons of arrowroot starch in the amount I make. (2 cups boiled down to the mount of 1 then the starch added.)

[tiny_teesha]

it was in spanish, so i don't think it was mythbusters, unless it was the spanish mythbusters version????
OH! Well i put loads in- it made my hair really soft...i may try to put in less see if my hair is still soft. It really absorbs conditioner afterward though, and it does stick my hair all together!

[effe]

Hi,

I'm following this thread for sometime. I tried shikakai (2 tbsp) and amla(1tbsp) made as a gravy during my last wash.Then used hibiscus with 1 drop of honey as conditioner rinse.
My hair was soft & shiny.
My question is could anyone elaborate about thickening with cornstarch. I bought it today & I'm eager to try it. TIA

[tiny_teesha]

Well i actually put a heap in, about equal portion that i had liquid. I think you only need a spoon, just a small amount... OPS! hehe

[effe]

Thank you TinyTeesha.:)
I don't want to waste the sludge portion of the shikakai & amla. So can I add 1tbsp of cornstarch to the conditioning rinse(hibiscus) for thickening it. Will it provide softness?? My hair type is 2b/2c on the medium to coarse side. I'm looking for smooth,shiny tangle free hair.
TIA

[tiny_teesha]

Well mirachan uses "2 to 3 very full spoons of arrowroot starch in the amount I make. (2 cups boiled down to the mount of 1 then the starch added)"
where as i use about half a cup for my total mix and about half a cup of the arrowroot starch and corn starch combined ( i use both). So i got really smooth results but i'm got to try it out with less powder next time to see if it makes a difference so that i am not waisting.
Well my hair afterwards is very soft, but i'm just starting out on all this herbal stuff. Try a pre coconut oiling and even a drop afterward too. That will make your hair tangle free.
goodluck, tell us how it comes along. I found it didn't actually thicken up the mixture even with the amount of powder i added thats why i kept adding more. So it won't be the consistency of shampoo. Thats what i found anyway.

[effe]

Thank you Teesha.
Sure.....I will inform the results. :)

[pariate]

I'm really intrigued by the idea of herbal washing. I've experimented with a few different cleansing methods from LHC - WO, CO, C-COW-C, baking soda wash, CV bars... The one I've had most success with is CO. I really struggled with WO, baking soda and CV.

I'm going to be brave and give the herbal thing a go :) I was considering starting with Icydove's method (as detailed in the Wiki article), because a) it uses the least number of ingredients, and b) it's a strained "tea" formula rather than a "mud". So what could go wrong?! How astringent is the shikakai? I have quite dry hair, naturally wurly thus prone to frizz, so I'm wondering if I should try using a little less shikaki first time round. Any thoughts on this please?

I've got some non-indian herbs on the way which I propose to use in the conditioning rinse. I'll let you y'all know how it goes.

Love this thread. Love LHC! This place has really opened my eyes to all sorts of ways I can really care for and nourish my hair. Yay LHC!:cheer::happydance:

[icydove]

Hi pariate :waving:

For best results, you will probably want to lightly oil your hair before you wash it. I use both a conditioning rinse and a leave-in after washing as well.

I find the shikakai and amla tea a lot less drying than shampoo, but my hair still needs lots of conditioning goodies ;)

[pariate]

Thank you Icydove :)

I love your hair in your avatar. It's always looked soooooooooo shiny when you post photos!

[icydove]

Thank you so much, you're too sweet :) However, don't underestimate the power of the flash ;)

[pariate]

I find the shikakai and amla tea a lot less drying than shampoo, but my hair still needs lots of conditioning goodies ;)


I meant to ask before - have you tried CO, and if so how did that compare in the dryness stakes?

Come to that, can anyone give me any feedback on the comparison please?

[icydove]

After I came to LHC, I CO'd for about 1 year and a half before switching to herbs. I used a non-cone "washing" conditioner and a light cone "conditioning" conditioner. Herbs are better than the CO washing because I get the softness of CO washing without the residue. The residue, or coating, wasn't so noticeable during the CO washing phase, but once switching to herbs, the coating was very noticeable. I cannot really stand to CO wash my hair now because of it. CO washing was much more moisturizing to my hair than shampoo/conditioner, though.

Speaking of dryness, there are differences among dryness, coarseness and damage. Damaged hair will probably feel dry no matter what you do, and coarse hair is always going to have a certain "feel" to it. Coarse hair can be soft, but it isn't ever going to feel like fine hair. Just something to keep in mind ;)

[pariate]

Yeah, I do have some coarse hair; but as you say it can feel uber-soft if I'm really pampering it :D I don't think it's particularly damaged. Sounds like it might be a good idea for me to gently clarify before I try herb washing for the first time. Maybe I'll try VERY diluted BS just to make sure there's no coating on my hair.

Hmmmmmm...

So many things to think about :nod:

BTW, I found a website for a UK indian grocers and they stock many (maybe all, but my knowledge isn't that comprehensive!) of the herbs needed for indian herb washing. The site is www.spicesofindia.co.uk.

I always mention sites like that because the online stockists referred to on LHC are so often US ones. So I try to share the info when I find stockists of lovely things over here in the UK ;)

[ChloeDharma]

Pariate, i know that site....it's really good, Brunette said she ordered from them and got good service. Some of the herbs are around the same sort of price that they are in Indian grocers and some are a bit more expensive. The oils though are alot more expensive in general.....but if you aren't near an Indian community then it's probably worth paying the bit extra.

I usually do my Shikakai quite weak, only a teaspoon or so and use it on heavily oiled hair and it gets most of it out and cleans my scalp well so i second Icydoves suggestion of oiling before you use it. I wouldn't call Shikakai a harsh astringent though and i find it much gentler than shampoo, the bonus of course is you can adjust how strong an infusion you make :)
I also found basically the same thing as Icydove comparing Herbs to CO washing, CO was great, and my hair liked it but i had that strange coated feeling which i didn't mind on my hair so much, but my scalp isn't too keen....it seems like i shed less too now i herb wash.

[pariate]

Less shedding would be great Chloe!

Icydove, could you give me a ml equivalent to the cup measurement please? This always throws me...

Thank you!

[icydove]

Yahoo! says:
1 Cups (US) = 236.51854 Milliliters

[pariate]

My fenugreek powder arrived today and BOY, does it smell like curry! LOL. How long does the smell linger in the hair? Did anyone find that EOs eliminate the smell or is it something I just have to put up with?

Thank you all for being so patient with alllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll my questions! :flower:

[ChloeDharma]

My fenugreek powder arrived today and BOY, does it smell like curry! LOL. How long does the smell linger in the hair? Did anyone find that EOs eliminate the smell or is it something I just have to put up with?

Thank you all for being so patient with alllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll my questions! :flower:

I find it doesn't really go away, but i like the smell so i'm happy about that. I don't really know how well EO's would cover the smell to be honest....sorry i'm not more help.

[tiny_teesha]

For the longest time i added a tsp of amla and neem in one cup and a tsp of kibbled fenugreek (hard to wash out!) and hibiscus honey and lemon rind in another. I then poured recently boiled water over it and waited 15. In the shower i would pour cup 1 in massage rinse then cup 2 and rince. I had no strainer then so there was lots of rinseing. Then i would condition sometimes and do an ACV rinse. That method left my hair feeling not as good as usual somehow... I needed loads of moisture for my really damaged hair.
I just started a new routine and my hair is LOVEING it, i thought i may share. It saves more herbs too! I've always used coconutoil afterwards but apply more then normal. Never straight before the wash but in the morning before i wash at night I apply heaps to make it look just greasy.
Firstly i mix 1/2 tsp of amla, shikakai, neem. Then pour hot water in the cup. Only about a third the way. Then i steep for 15, seive it 2-3 times. Add corn starch and arrowroot flour, about enough to be almost equal to the amount of water, so about a 1/4 of the cup, and i mix, pour it in an empty ketchup-like nozzle container i bought, and then apply it in the shower. Wait 2-5 minutes. It makes your hair stick together like glue a bit- i'm sure useing less flour would work also. But mroe then 1/2 tsp! Then rinse (it rinses out fairly easily) , Then condition- i find my hair absorbs conditioner better this way- and then ACV/WV rinse.
I have really damaged ends and next to nothing has made them feel this smooth.

It totally removes all oily build up without drying and leaves hair really smooooooth! Keep in mind i used this after only pouring neem on my scalp with little massaging 3 x a week for 2 weeks. So esentially 2 weeks of sebumy hair down to my sholders! And almost al th greasies was gone right away. After the next wash it was all clean! I won't change this routine for a while!

I just had to share my discovery :)

[Shell]

I found amla to be a great addition to the shikakai--in fact I didn't really like shikakai without it. I also always use coconut oil before hand, and just a bit afterward as my hair is drying.

I never could CO. I couldn't get past the adjustment period, my scalp hated it, and oddly, it made my hair dry. Go figure.

[pariate]

The postman's van is parked outside my building. I'm sitting here desperately hoping that the doorbell will ring and that he'll have my indian herbs for me!:pray:

If he hasn't, I'll cry at him :cry: :D

[pariate]

ETA: Deleting this because I re-read the Wiki article and found my answer buried in there. Knew I'd seen it somewhere. Sorry folks... :run:

"Shell's Herbal CO

Use three tablespoons of amla in about two cups of warm water. Let sit for 5-15 minutes. Apply to hair and scalp. Gently massage scalp with a bit of water splashed on. Leave in for 15 minutes or so. Won't remove any but a very light oiling. Nicely conditioning and gently cleansing. Also makes your hair smell nice. "

[icydove]

Flaxen experimented with amla-only, but I think it was as a conditioner and not a cleanser :ponder: mira-chan does hibiscus-only sometimes (you can read her method in the Indian herb article (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=3)).

Shikakai gives some amazing slip when washing. I detangle my hair under running water while rinsing the shikakai/amla tea because of that.

[Leisa]

Icydove - I agree about the residue conditioner leaves behind!

Mira Chan - When you wash with henna do you leave it to release the dye? And do you notice more shedding with henna and cassia?

Chloe Dharma - I shed more when I use conditioner too.


I'm going back to herbal washing after a hiatus becuase my hair looks and FEELS like icky :( compared to when I did Indian/herbal washing methods!:)

[pariate]

I don't know if I'll try the herb washing again. I'm quite lazy :rolleyes: and it seemed like quite a fiddly process to me. I used the amla and shikakai to wash, followed by the fenugreek and amla to condition, but washing those bits out of my hair was a real pain, and I can't brush my hair when it's dry to get the bits out because with my wurls my hair will turn into an afro! :lol: Ho hum. I ended up using conditioner to rinse the bits out. I found the fragrance of the herbs a little too strong as well. I might revisit it another time, but I'll need to do some more research into alternative herbs, especially for conditioning.

Thank you all for your help in my experiment!

[icydove]

Strain the herbs and you will not be picking out the bits ;) The scent is milder as well.

[pariate]

I strained the herbs I used for the wash. I did the same for the conditioning herbs but when I dipped my fingers in the strained liquid and the gelatinous goop with all the bits in, the liquid didn't feel anywhere near as "slippy" as the goop. My hair felt like velcro when I just used the liquid so I threw the goop on afterwards and it felt slippy and moisturised... but then had to contend with all the bits! :lol: I promise I''m not trying to be difficult :)

[ChloeDharma]

I strained the herbs I used for the wash. I did the same for the conditioning herbs but when I dipped my fingers in the strained liquid and the gelatinous goop with all the bits in, the liquid didn't feel anywhere near as "slippy" as the goop. My hair felt like velcro when I just used the liquid so I threw the goop on afterwards and it felt slippy and moisturised... but then had to contend with all the bits! :lol: I promise I''m not trying to be difficult :)

You're not being difficult......it just didn't work out for you.....maybe you might want to try adding something like arrowroot to the strained liquid?

Whatever you decide.....the experimenting is part of the fun ;)

[Ms Monnie]

Does anyone know anything about using herbs and oils according to Ayurvedic dosha?

[icydove]

I strained the herbs I used for the wash. I did the same for the conditioning herbs but when I dipped my fingers in the strained liquid and the gelatinous goop with all the bits in, the liquid didn't feel anywhere near as "slippy" as the goop. My hair felt like velcro when I just used the liquid so I threw the goop on afterwards and it felt slippy and moisturised... but then had to contend with all the bits! :lol: I promise I''m not trying to be difficult :)

So what was your recipe? Did you apply oil prior to washing?

[pariate]

Wash: 2tbsp shikakai, 3tbsp amla in 4 cups water
Condition: 1tbsp amla, 1tbsp fenugreek in 1.5 cups approx.

I heavily oiled with avocado and jojoba oil (my hair's preference ;) ) before washing.

[ChloeDharma]

Does anyone know anything about using herbs and oils according to Ayurvedic dosha?

I'm looking into this at the moment....once i get more info i'll make sure i pass it onto you :)

[Ms Monnie]

Thank you, I appreciate it :D.

[icydove]

pariate,

The tea version of washing isn't good at getting out heavy oilings unless they've had time to "soak" in, we are talking days not hours. Do you typically do heavy oilings with those oils on your hair?

Instead of upping the amla to 3 tbsp in the wash mix and keeping the shikakai the same, you may want to decrease the shikakai to 1 tbsp to keep the herb/water ratio the same.

I'm guessing that using you need something more than amla and fenugreek for "conditioning."

Regardless, it takes trial and error to figure out what is going to work for "you." I don't think anyone who regularly uses Indian herbs on LHC uses the same recipe or method. When I first started out, I tried each herb individually to note its effect on my hair.

[Flaxen]

Flaxen experimented with amla-only, but I think it was as a conditioner and not a cleanser :ponder:
Yes I did, and yes it was (a conditioner only, but not CO, lol). I found that just a tsp. of amla in 1 cup of water made a nice final rinse, like an ACV rinse.

My experience with herbal washing is very different than others'. I think it may be because our water is so soft. I cannot clean with amla, ala CO, and interestingly, shikakai does not clean my hair, either. I am able to wash with aritha alone without drying out my hair.

[mira-chan]

Icydove - I agree about the residue conditioner leaves behind!

Mira Chan - When you wash with henna do you leave it to release the dye? And do you notice more shedding with henna and cassia?

Chloe Dharma - I shed more when I use conditioner too.


I'm going back to herbal washing after a hiatus becuase my hair looks and FEELS like icky :( compared to when I did Indian/herbal washing methods!:)

Yes I let the Henna dye release. Though my hair doesn't look like it as I apparently have henna dye resistant skin and hair. Haven't henna'd in half a year and no dye line to be seen. Not that I'm complaining. I didn't notice any difference between henna and cassia.


Does anyone know anything about using herbs and oils according to Ayurvedic dosha?

In the article I added in the oil's Ayurvedic properties when I knew them. For example Coconut oil is cooling and good for dryiness and hot months. Sesame is neutral. Mustard oil is warming. You choose the oil according to imbalance.

For example Vata is cool and dry so it needs warmth and moisture to balance it if there is too much.

[effe]

For the last two weeks I'm doing herb washing:D. My hair is soft & tangle free all along. I'm glad to find a routine.
My routine is 2-3 tbsp shikakai,1 tbsp amla for cleaning my scalp & hair. 1-2 tbsp hibiscus and 1-2 tbsp corn starch for conditioning.

Thank you for your information herb ladies!!!!!:cheer:

[Ursula]

I'm glad I found this thread - I just got myself a windfall of Indian washing herbs, and my searches by herb name were not getting good results for finding recipes. But the links at the beginning of the thread gave me just what I needed!

Does anyone know the shelf life of the washing herbs? I got my stash from a friend who has had it a couple of years, after deciding that herbal washes were too much trouble, and she got the stash from another friend, who decided that herbal washes were too much trouble. I'm willing to give it a try (although knowing my lazy nature, it may wind up too much trouble!) but I'd like a clue as to whether it is worth trying these herbs at this point. They're all still in the original plastic bag packaging.

Right now, the marshmallow root is a pale tan or off-white, the amla is the color of cinnamon poweder, the shikakai is the color of cocoa powder, the bhringraj is a dark brown with a green cast to it, and the aritha is the color of coca powder but with a reddish tone to the brown. (In case color changes can give a clue to usablity.)

I haven't tried any herbal washes or treatments in the past, so this is all new to me.

[mira-chan]

I'm glad I found this thread - I just got myself a windfall of Indian washing herbs, and my searches by herb name were not getting good results for finding recipes. But the links at the beginning of the thread gave me just what I needed!

Does anyone know the shelf life of the washing herbs? I got my stash from a friend who has had it a couple of years, after deciding that herbal washes were too much trouble, and she got the stash from another friend, who decided that herbal washes were too much trouble. I'm willing to give it a try (although knowing my lazy nature, it may wind up too much trouble!) but I'd like a clue as to whether it is worth trying these herbs at this point. They're all still in the original plastic bag packaging.

Right now, the marshmallow root is a pale tan or off-white, the amla is the color of cinnamon poweder, the shikakai is the color of cocoa powder, the bhringraj is a dark brown with a green cast to it, and the aritha is the color of coca powder but with a reddish tone to the brown. (In case color changes can give a clue to usablity.)

I haven't tried any herbal washes or treatments in the past, so this is all new to me.

The colors are as they should be. The aritha powder that I had that got too old tuned paler than what you described. From what I have noticed from my own stashes getting too old is that they are good for at least a year and then slowly deteriorate if they have been opened. They likely last longer when sealed.

[Leisa]

I checked my boxes of herbs. My Amla says manufactured on 11/06 and expires on 10/09.
The shikakai and reetha don't have any expiration date.

My guess is that herbs in a sealed package will last a couple years. If your herbs are at least two years old then I would think they might be close to expiring.

[Ursula]

Thank you Mira-Chan and Leisa for the advice on the freshness of the herbs. I suspect these are 4-5 years old, but since the color was good,, and they are mildly fragrent when soaked in water, I decided to give them a try.

They seem to do well for washing, despite the age, so I'm playing with techniques. Tea washes seem easier than goop washes, given one try of each. My hair is fussy about rinsing, and goop just stayed.

While some people here have mentioned using conditioner when rinsing the herbs, I'm avoiding that, since it would essentally be my normal CO wash routine after the herbs, and I suspect that would obscure any effects from the herbal washes.

For those who wash with herbal tea mixes, has anyone tried making them in a drip coffee maker? On the one hand, I could see that being a very convenient way of getting a filtered brew, but on the other hand, I'm wondering if the filter would clog and overflow, given that the herbs are ground finer than coffee is, or the water might flow through too quickly to get all the good stuff from the herbs.

[icydove]

Ursula, I haven't tried a drip coffee maker. However, I've tried putting Indian herbs into tea bags, and the result was a very weak tea. A French press has the possibility of working well if the strainer is fine enough and it wouldn't be a major pain to clean. I use a permanent coffee filter to strain my herbs, and it works wonderfully.

[Sokudo Ningyou]

I'm seriously considering these Indian herbal washes, as my scalp is more than likely dry and terrible from A: my shampoo, and B: my hard water. Has anyone who has a similar hair type as mine (1a/F/M/i/ii) done any of these washes and had excellent results? I'd like to use henna, as my current shampoo has henna and is an amazing conditioner.

Also, is hard water a problem with these washes? Would I need distilled water, or a water softener, filter, or magnets to make these work for my hair?

[ChloeDharma]

I'm 1b/f/i is that close enough? I find the herb washes great and i have hard water too so as far as i know that doesn't interfere with them :)

[Ms Monnie]

I'm really into my methi at the moment, but I've run out of it. I do have marshmallow root though. Those who've used both - how do they compare?

[icydove]

I find methi easier to rinse out than marshmallow, but otherwise, they seemed to work similarly. I prefer to use neither, though ;)

[jojo]

excellent thread, ive just tried a herbal rinse with burdock and i am converted, just ordered some stuff to try herbal washes from the UK site pariate put up, thanks for sharing that.

Hope i get as good as results as you guys have xx

[jojo]

well they arrived my herb stuff, I first oiled my hair with almond oil prior to washing I mixed 2 teaspoons of hesh aritha and the same of shikakai in hot water and left until it cooled, but i forgot to strain (duh!) it looked like mud and although it said on the box the hesh aritha had great foaming abilities, i saw none, i didnt rub it into my hair as it was gritty and i was scared it would damage my hair shaft, so I just sort of put it on the whole of my hair.

I rinsed off with a catnip rinse and then applied a rhassoul deep conditioner which is still sat on my hair as i type, my hair has been well and truly spoilt today!

hope it turns out ok, will let you all know results later x

[twilight]

they rock!

in emulation of icydove :heart: i made a really watery 1/2 and 1/2 concoction of amla and shikakai last night, let it sit, and used it this morning with almost no rubbing... no conditioner, no acv or other rinse, no mist...

my hair is now dry, clean, thick-feeling, and shiny. it worked!

btw i added a few drops of vanilla to the mix for scent and it lingered nicely.

thanks for bringing these awesome herbs into discussion!

[jojo]

they rock!

in emulation of icydove :heart: i made a really watery 1/2 and 1/2 concoction of amla and shikakai last night, let it sit, and used it this morning with almost no rubbing... no conditioner, no acv or other rinse, no mist...

my hair is now dry, clean, thick-feeling, and shiny. it worked!

btw i added a few drops of vanilla to the mix for scent and it lingered nicely.

thanks for bringing these awesome herbs into discussion!

thats brilliant twilight, I am well and truly converted to herbal washes, my hair and scalp feel so much better. Ive rinsed mine off, it feels soft when wet but yet not soft like ive used a conditioner, but i can see the shine coming through as it dries, cant stop touching it!

I just need to remember to sieve it through next time, i also did a dry hair oil with almond oil, (i got a free sample with my order) wish id have tried this ages ago now.

[tiny_teesha]

I have found that if i sieve my tea throughly it takes out less oils from my head!!! :) So i still look greasy, but only lightly. Nifty trick i thought! If i leave the grit and don't sieve too much it dries out all the oil.

[Flaxen]

I finally came up with a recipe that cleans well but doesn't cause static. My hair is wonderfully soft and silky. The bad news (for me) is that the liquid was just dark enough to stain my hair a little. I'm sure it will come out in a few washings, though. Anyway, I thought someone else might like the recipe. :grin:

5 tsp. aritha
2 tsp. amla
1/4 tsp. neem
1/4 tsp. tulsi
1/4 tsp. white sandalwood
1/4 tsp. gotu kola

I added enough hot water to make a thin paste - about 1/2 cup total liquid, and I did not strain it. I also prewash oiled lightly with coconut oil.

[Leisa]

Thanks Flaxen:)
Next time I'm in town I'll pick up those herbs and try it.

[Shell]

I've been experimenting with using aritha in place of shikakai in my wash mix. My local Indian herb store was out of shikakai, so I decided to try the aritha. I've always heard that it was stronger/harsher than shikakai.

My results have been great. I much prefer aritha to shikakai; it has none of the drying that I suffered with shikakai, and I don't even have to pre-wash oil to get good results.

My recipe:

2T aritha
4T amla
and about 2 cups of (tap) hot water

I used it on all of my hair, and didn't need to follow with any kind of conditioner, herbal or otherwise. I did do an AVC rinse, just on my scalp, because it helps with itchies.

[Sari]

I use aritha, shikakai, red sandalwood in equal quantities mixed with some water to make a thin paste and then I spread it on scalp and hair. I put on a shower cap and 20 minutes and then wash it out massaging my hair throughout. This helps to remove any oil without drying it out.

[Leisa]

I've been experimenting with using aritha in place of shikakai in my wash mix. My local Indian herb store was out of shikakai, so I decided to try the aritha. I've always heard that it was stronger/harsher than shikakai.

My results have been great. I much prefer aritha to shikakai; it has none of the drying that I suffered with shikakai, and I don't even have to pre-wash oil to get good results.

My recipe:

2T aritha
4T amla
and about 2 cups of (tap) hot water

I used it on all of my hair, and didn't need to follow with any kind of conditioner, herbal or otherwise. I did do an AVC rinse, just on my scalp, because it helps with itchies.


Hi Shell:)
I use aritha too. In fact I ran out of Shikakai and only had reetha and neem left. I find it works just as well as shikakai if not better. Today I used-
2.5 tbsp of reetha
2 tbsp of neem
1cup of water

It did a nice job although I ran out. But still my hair is clean. And I had coconut oil on it. My canopy was a bit dry, so i put coconut oil on it wet. Braided it. Now it looks nice.:)


I use aritha, shikakai, red sandalwood in equal quantities mixed with some water to make a thin paste and then I spread it on scalp and hair. I put on a shower cap and 20 minutes and then wash it out massaging my hair throughout. This helps to remove any oil without drying it out.


Hi Sari, :) Did you pre-oil or use oil after washing?


:)I saw a commercial herbal hair powder online that had shikakai, reetha, neem, lavender and triphala. Has anyone ever used triphala? I'm considering buying some from banyan botanicals and adding it to my wash. (Its supposed to be good for the digestion too and I need all the help I can get in that department).:)

[Leisa]

Has anyone here used any Indian Hair Oils?
I'm thinking of trying brahmi or bhringaraj oil.

I also found a herbal hair oil with these ingredients: brahmi, coconut oil, pumpkin, lemons, coriander, rose, sandalwood and amla.

I wonder if there is any noticeable difference between the indian herbal oils or just plain ol' coconut or sesame?

[ChloeDharma]

Has anyone here used any Indian Hair Oils?
I'm thinking of trying brahmi or bhringaraj oil.

I also found a herbal hair oil with these ingredients: brahmi, coconut oil, pumpkin, lemons, coriander, rose, sandalwood and amla.

I wonder if there is any noticeable difference between the indian herbal oils or just plain ol' coconut or sesame?

That oil sounds great, i'd definately give it a go if it's not too expensive.
Yes, adding herbs to the oils with give the benefits of the base oil (coconut, sesame etc) plus properties from the herb too.

Here's a thread on Indian hair oils
http://www.forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=105&highlight=indian+oils

I've used dabur vatika coconut oil and love it, and the Hesh brand Bhringraj oil which has a looong list of herbs added after the Bhringraj (Maka) but i found a great scalp oil, especially at night or when i had a headache.
Bear in mind alot of the oils sold as hair oils have mineral oil as a base, so if you want to avoid that make sure you check the ingredients.
Here are links to the vatika and bhringraj oils i use
http://www.spicesofindia.co.uk/acatalog/Hesh-Bhringraj-Hair-Oil.html
http://www.spicesofindia.co.uk/acatalog/Dabur-Vatika-Enriched-Coconut-Hair-Oil-Dabur.html

There's also a thread on the old boards.....the title is something about indian rapunzels and the oils in their hair....i'll hunt it out and post a link later.....also the Indian haircare thread on the old board has loads and loads of great information on oils.

[mira-chan]

I've used Vatika and had ok results. I wouldn't rave about it though.

Kesavardhini concnetrated oil that you mix with a base oil. It was pretty good.

Coconut Neelibringradi (KPN brand) I'd suggest staying away from. It smells foul and the effect is iffy.

Kama Neelibringradi, sesame based, I will rave about. It's wonderful and not skinky. Just herby.

I use amla in sesame, and brahmi in sesame mixed in the scalp, with a few EO's added. They work well. I got them at From nature with Love.

[Leisa]

That oil sounds great, i'd definately give it a go if it's not too expensive.
Yes, adding herbs to the oils with give the benefits of the base oil (coconut, sesame etc) plus properties from the herb too.

Here's a thread on Indian hair oils
http://www.forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=105&highlight=indian+oils

I've used dabur vatika coconut oil and love it, and the Hesh brand Bhringraj oil which has a looong list of herbs added after the Bhringraj (Maka) but i found a great scalp oil, especially at night or when i had a headache.
Bear in mind alot of the oils sold as hair oils have mineral oil as a base, so if you want to avoid that make sure you check the ingredients.
Here are links to the vatika and bhringraj oils i use
http://www.spicesofindia.co.uk/acatalog/Hesh-Bhringraj-Hair-Oil.html
http://www.spicesofindia.co.uk/acatalog/Dabur-Vatika-Enriched-Coconut-Hair-Oil-Dabur.html

There's also a thread on the old boards.....the title is something about indian rapunzels and the oils in their hair....i'll hunt it out and post a link later.....also the Indian haircare thread on the old board has loads and loads of great information on oils.

:)Hi Chloedharma, thanks for the link to the indianoil thread. That is great. I've tried the Vatika oil. I find it very nourishing on my ends however that coconut 'fragrance' is too strong for me. I will be trying the bhringaraj oil down the road for sure.:)


I've used Vatika and had ok results. I wouldn't rave about it though.

Kesavardhini concnetrated oil that you mix with a base oil. It was pretty good.

Coconut Neelibringradi (KPN brand) I'd suggest staying away from. It smells foul and the effect is iffy.

Kama Neelibringradi, sesame based, I will rave about. It's wonderful and not skinky. Just herby.

I use amla in sesame, and brahmi in sesame mixed in the scalp, with a few EO's added. They work well. I got them at From nature with Love.

:)Hi MiraChan - I had a question for you about sesame oil. I found some at Walmart but its not cold pressed and its for cooking. Is that what I want or should I find some that is cold pressed?
I noticed FNWL is out of stock on a lot of things. And I had no idea 'rose essential oil' was SO expensive. Guess I won't be using that. I think that is great that you make your own brahmi oil with e.o.'s. I decided that i would buy a commercial one becauce its cheaper than buying all the ingredients at this time. If I like it then I'll buy the oils and the herbs and e.o.'s and make my own too. What are your favorite e.o.'s that you add? (do you follow ayurvedic rules for you type)? I am vata so will probably stick to vata e.o.'s. What are you?:)

[Flaxen]

:)I saw a commercial herbal hair powder online that had shikakai, reetha, neem, lavender and triphala. Has anyone ever used triphala? I'm considering buying some from banyan botanicals and adding it to my wash. (Its supposed to be good for the digestion too and I need all the help I can get in that department).:)
In all of my previous experiments, I used triphala instead of amla (because it's amla plus two other goodies). I found that triphala is quite astringent, and it will greatly increase the washing power of your mix. I had one of the best hair days ever with a triphala mix, but I also got a lot of static every time I used a mix with it. Perhaps using triphala AND amla would give better results.

[Leisa]

In all of my previous experiments, I used triphala instead of amla (because it's amla plus two other goodies). I found that triphala is quite astringent, and it will greatly increase the washing power of your mix. I had one of the best hair days ever with a triphala mix, but I also got a lot of static every time I used a mix with it. Perhaps using triphala AND amla would give better results.


Interesting Flaxen:)
We are hair twins too. So I'll definately take into consideration what you say. I'm curious to try it now. I ordered some and it will arrive at the end of the week.
I already have major static. I'm out of amla though so I'll try it first without the amla.

[Flaxen]

Leisa, here's the recipe for the wash that gave me such nice hair. It cleaned really well, I'd say even clarified, but there was that annoying static.

Aritha Herbal Wash
2 T. soapnut powder
2 tsp. triphala
1/4 tsp. aloe powder
1/4 tsp. brahmi
1/4 tsp. cassia
1/4 tsp. neem
1/4 tsp. tulsi
1 Cup hot water

[Leisa]

:)Cool, thanks Flaxen
I'm going to have to order the brahmi, tulsi and aloe powder. I didn't even know there was aloe powder. I can get brahmi and tulsi at banyan botanicals. I'm not sure where to buy aloe powder but I'll find some.


:)On the subject of coconut milk:
I tried a coconut milk on my hair for the 1st time today and what a horrible disaster that was. I used 3/4 cup coconut milk and 1/2 tsp of fenugreek. I left it on the hair for 30 minutes.

It was nice and soothing on the scalp, but my hair turned out like dry straw! Does this mean my hair hates protein?
Now I've got to wash my hair again.

[mira-chan]

Hi MiraChan - I had a question for you about sesame oil. I found some at Walmart but its not cold pressed and its for cooking. Is that what I want or should I find some that is cold pressed?
I noticed FNWL is out of stock on a lot of things. And I had no idea 'rose essential oil' was SO expensive. Guess I won't be using that. I think that is great that you make your own brahmi oil with e.o.'s. I decided that i would buy a commercial one becauce its cheaper than buying all the ingredients at this time. If I like it then I'll buy the oils and the herbs and e.o.'s and make my own too. What are your favorite e.o.'s that you add? (do you follow ayurvedic rules for you type)? I am vata so will probably stick to vata e.o.'s. What are you?:)

I'm a Vata but i don't follow ayurveda rules strictly. If I did I'd never use coconut oil as it is cooling and vata is cold and dry.

I've used plain, for cooking, sesame oil no problem though it may be better to buy it from the Indian store than the Asian one. The Asian one is somehow stinkier.

I don't make Brahmi oil, I buy it then add EOs to it. Of the EO's I put in only one is Indian, that is Jatamansi (Indian Spikenard).

The EOs in my mix are: Jatamansi, Tea Tree, Texas Cedarwood (though asian cedarwood would be better), Bay Laurel, Lavander, Rosemary. It's a mix for promoting growth and scalp health.

Rose EO, Sandawood EO and neroli EO are very expensive due to both shortage (sandalwood) and extraction difficulty (rose and neroli).

[Leisa]

I'm a Vata but i don't follow ayurveda rules strictly. If I did I'd never use coconut oil as it is cooling and vata is cold and dry.

I've used plain, for cooking, sesame oil no problem though it may be better to buy it from the Indian store than the Asian one. The Asian one is somehow stinkier.

I don't make Brahmi oil, I buy it then add EOs to it. Of the EO's I put in only one is Indian, that is Jatamansi (Indian Spikenard).

The EOs in my mix are: Jatamansi, Tea Tree, Texas Cedarwood (though asian cedarwood would be better), Bay Laurel, Lavander, Rosemary. It's a mix for promoting growth and scalp health.

Rose EO, Sandawood EO and neroli EO are very expensive due to both shortage (sandalwood) and extraction difficulty (rose and neroli).

Hi MiraChan:)
Very interesting. I have ordered some books on Ayurveda. I didn't know vata types were not supposed to use coconut oil but now that I think about it, when i was shopping on an online ayurveda site, the vata oils were all a combination of sweet almond oil and sesame oil.

I think I'll buy my sesame oil from the Indian grocery now that you mention it, or online from an Indian site. The asian sesame oil is really smelly and also really dark in color. Plus, I don't want to smell like sesame oil.

Thanks for your e.o. recipe.:)


Question about frequency of herbal washing.

I was wondering how often a person can use herbal washes? Daily,every second day, weekly? I used to shampoo every second day and I'm wondering if I can use herbs every second day or is that too much drying? I've been using quite a bit of oil to compensate.


Also, one more question -

I'm currently only using herbs and oils. I've read here that oils don't actually 'condition' they just protect the hair. Is it okay if I never use conditioner? Is my hair going to lose moisture and how do I replace it? Is using an herb like hibiscus a moisture adding thing?

[Flaxen]

:)Cool, thanks Flaxen
I'm going to have to order the brahmi, tulsi and aloe powder. I didn't even know there was aloe powder. I can get brahmi and tulsi at banyan botanicals. I'm not sure where to buy aloe powder but I'll find some.
From Nature With Love has it, but they're out of a lot of the Indian herbs right now. Try Mountain Rose Herbs (http://www.mountainroseherbs.com/index.php[/url).



:)On the subject of coconut milk:
I tried a coconut milk on my hair for the 1st time today and what a horrible disaster that was. I used 3/4 cup coconut milk and 1/2 tsp of fenugreek. I left it on the hair for 30 minutes.

It was nice and soothing on the scalp, but my hair turned out like dry straw! Does this mean my hair hates protein?
Now I've got to wash my hair again.
Not necessarily an indication of protein hating. Coconut milk does the exact same thing to my hair, and yet it loves protein treatments.


Question about frequency of herbal washing.

I was wondering how often a person can use herbal washes? Daily,every second day, weekly? I used to shampoo every second day and I'm wondering if I can use herbs every second day or is that too much drying? I've been using quite a bit of oil to compensate.
It would be for me (too drying), plus we have a septic system, and I have to be careful how much stuff I send down the drain. I'm trying to get to a once a week herbal wash, but you should experiment and see what works best for you.

Also, one more question -

I'm currently only using herbs and oils. I've read here that oils don't actually 'condition' they just protect the hair. Is it okay if I never use conditioner? Is my hair going to lose moisture and how do I replace it? Is using an herb like hibiscus a moisture adding thing?
I haven't used traditional conditioner with my herbal washes. I'm trying to get a routine where I don't over cleanse, so I don't feel the need for conditioner. I also don't detangle until my hair is fully dry, so I don't *need* the slip when it's wet.

[ktani]

Flaxen

Of all places - Unilever, who makes my shampoo, has hair care tips on their website.

One of the tips is to carefully detangle hair when wet - to smooth the cuticle before drying to help eliminate tangles.

I do that now after a quick, careful squeeze with a towel to remove excess water - as opposed to detangling damp hair the way I used to.

The catnip conditioning allows me to do that easily - and to my surprise - it actually works better. I fingers only comb though.

"Hair shouldn't be combed when it's wet.
False. When hair is wet, water penetrates its shaft, so it swells and starts tangling with other hair. If wet hair is not combed, it will dry out tangled, and will be unmanageable and difficult to style. To set the hair and give it a smooth look, you must comb it when it is wet. But do it gently and be sure to use a wide-toothed comb."
http://www.unileverusa.com/ourbrands/beautyandstyle/morearticles/hairmyths.asp

Go Unilever!

I am not a fan of some of their past corporate moves - but they do know hair, IMO.

[Leisa]

Flaxen

Of all places - Unilever, who makes my shampoo, has hair care tips on their website.

One of the tips is to carefully detangle hair when wet - to smooth the cuticle before drying to help eliminate tangles.

I do that now after a quick, careful squeeze with a towel to remove excess water - as opposed to detangling damp hair the way I used to.

The catnip conditioning allows me to do that easily - and to my surprise - it actually works better. I fingers only comb though.

"Hair shouldn't be combed when it's wet.
False. When hair is wet, water penetrates its shaft, so it swells and starts tangling with other hair. If wet hair is not combed, it will dry out tangled, and will be unmanageable and difficult to style. To set the hair and give it a smooth look, you must comb it when it is wet. But do it gently and be sure to use a wide-toothed comb."
http://www.unileverusa.com/ourbrands/beautyandstyle/morearticles/hairmyths.asp

Go Unilever!

I am not a fan of some of their past corporate moves - but they do know hair, IMO.


:)Hi Ktani,
I agree that hair looks neater if combed when wet and I also agree that the hair is less tangled when combed wet. However, I'm not sure this is better for the hair. I really don't know? I know that indian hair care people say don't comb the hair when wet because the cuticle is more easily damaged.

I know when I used conventional products I didn't need to comb my hair wet and i didn't have tangles. However the longer I've gone on herbs and oils the more my hair seems to get tangled as it lacks a 'slip' agent.

My hair definately feels different off conventional products. It feels *not slippery (whats the opposite of slippery?). Its
thicker. It clumps together almost clinging to the other strands. When I'm pulling it apart there is more tension between the hairs.

I know I'm in need of hibiscus, as this made my hair more silky. But as far as the combing thing goes, its a lot harder to get a comb through my hair now and I wouldn't attempt it with wet or damp hair simply because the hair would stretch and then possibly break.

[ktani]

:)Hi Ktani,
I agree that hair looks neater if combed when wet and I also agree that the hair is less tangled when combed wet. However, I'm not sure this is better for the hair. I really don't know? I know that indian hair care people say don't comb the hair when wet because the cuticle is more easily damaged.

I know when I used conventional products I didn't need to comb my hair wet and i didn't have tangles. However the longer I've gone on herbs and oils the more my hair seems to get tangled as it lacks a 'slip' agent.

My hair definately feels different off conventional products. It feels *not slippery (whats the opposite of slippery?). Its
thicker. It clumps together almost clinging to the other strands. When I'm pulling it apart there is more tension between the hairs.

I know I'm in need of hibiscus, as this made my hair more silky. But as far as the combing thing goes, its a lot harder to get a comb through my hair now and I wouldn't attempt it with wet or damp hair simply because the hair would stretch and then possibly break.

Hi Leisa

My hair used to be less easy to finger comb with catnip - until I increased the timing with it on my hair in the shower.

You are correct - hair is more fragile when wet - but by detangling - towel squeezed hair only - not damp - I do notice a difference.

However - in the shower - I do not get tangling under the force of the water with my hair anymore - I can carefully separate it without damage - that is why I believe I have so much less breakage.

The combination of my shampoo and using catnip tea has allowed that.

I get no tangles now before I apply the catnip after just shampooing.

[Flaxen]

...If wet hair is not combed, it will dry out tangled, and will be unmanageable and difficult to style. To set the hair and give it a smooth look, you must comb it when it is wet...
With regard to my own hair, that is 100% untrue. Once I am out of the shower, I do nothing to my hair other than squeeze out the extra water with a towel. When it is almost dry, sometimes I fluff it with my fingers, but not always. When it is fully dry, it detangles effortlessly, and if it were any silkier, it would slide right off my head. :lol:

[Leisa]

When it is fully dry, it detangles effortlessly, and if it were any silkier, it would slide right off my head. :lol:


Flaxen, how did you achieve silky hair?

[ktani]

Flaxen

I would love to know too.

[mira-chan]

Hi MiraChan:)
Very interesting. I have ordered some books on Ayurveda. I didn't know vata types were not supposed to use coconut oil but now that I think about it, when i was shopping on an online ayurveda site, the vata oils were all a combination of sweet almond oil and sesame oil.

I think I'll buy my sesame oil from the Indian grocery now that you mention it, or online from an Indian site. The asian sesame oil is really smelly and also really dark in color. Plus, I don't want to smell like sesame oil.

Thanks for your e.o. recipe.:)


Question about frequency of herbal washing.

I was wondering how often a person can use herbal washes? Daily,every second day, weekly? I used to shampoo every second day and I'm wondering if I can use herbs every second day or is that too much drying? I've been using quite a bit of oil to compensate.


Also, one more question -

I'm currently only using herbs and oils. I've read here that oils don't actually 'condition' they just protect the hair. Is it okay if I never use conditioner? Is my hair going to lose moisture and how do I replace it? Is using an herb like hibiscus a moisture adding thing?

I ignore most Vata mixes because Sweet almond oil is not something my hair and skin agrees with. I got crunchy and greasy skin from it. Not much better on the hair.

I wash once a week to two weeks. When I used shampoo I washed once a week. I don't use conditioner with herbs at all. Some times I don't even add conditioning herbs to my mix and all is ok. I don't condition after henna. My hair tangles less now than it did with shampoo and conditioner or when I CO'd.

I don't comb my hair wet. I did that for a bit when I CO'd, I combed with conditioner in the water. No help there, just more hair loss. I wouldn't dare comb post towel squeezing. Tried it BAD idea for my hair. There is no way to get a comb through it then at all. It maybe hair type.

I detangle pre-wash, then don't touch it with a comb at all for up to 3 days post wash. I've had no problems. It detangles easily after that and I comb out at most 30ish hairs for those 3 days. My hair looks and acts much better that way. (Hair in my signature and in my profile picture, completely uncombed post wash.)

I always joke that I have antisocial hairs. Once a comb touches them dry they just separate out and don't touch each other. So no tangles but fluffy.

On silkyness, my hair is not nor has it ever been silky. It can feel smooth at best but not the silky soft type, at worst it feels like metal wires. The joys of coarse hair. Oils help it feel better in that department. Even the most moisturizing conditioner didn't do anything to benefit in this department.

[Leisa]

I ignore most Vata mixes because Sweet almond oil is not something my hair and skin agrees with. I got crunchy and greasy skin from it. Not much better on the hair.
Uh oh. I hope I don't have the same reaction as I ordered some brahmi oil in sao and sesame oil. Oh well, if it does, it won't be the first thing I've bought that didn't work.:)


I wash once a week to two weeks. When I used shampoo I washed once a week. I don't use conditioner with herbs at all. Some times I don't even add conditioning herbs to my mix and all is ok. I don't condition after henna. My hair tangles less now than it did with shampoo and conditioner or when I CO'd.
I'm glad to know that conditioner is not required. I do wash more frequently though so I'll have to try and limit it to twice a week for now, or just use a bit of reetha or shikakai with lots of amla. I ran out of hibiscus and I think that is why my hair feels so dry right now (not to mention the fact I live in a desert, I really need the hibiscus).



(Hair in my signature and in my profile picture, completely uncombed post wash.)

If that is uncombed then you have no worries as that looks nice to me.:)


I always joke that I have antisocial hairs. Once a comb touches them dry they just separate out and don't touch each other. So no tangles but fluffy.
Hey, me too. My hair really does look worse when I comb it. It just frizzes, especially the canopy, its really not a good look.




On silkyness, my hair is not nor has it ever been silky. It can feel smooth at best but not the silky soft type, at worst it feels like metal wires. The joys of coarse hair. Oils help it feel better in that department. Even the most moisturizing conditioner didn't do anything to benefit in this department.
I don't know if its just me, but my hair feels less fine and more coarse using herbs, it feels thicker too. It definately doesn't feel silky, unless I have a ton of oil on it.

[Flaxen]

Flaxen, how did you achieve silky hair?


Flaxen

I would love to know too.
Part genetics, part hairtastic water (I'm never moving, LOL) My hair has always been slippery and silky. The strands are incredibly fine - really, I almost can't feel one between my fingers. An updo that starts the day near my crown will be almost down to my nape by the end of the day. I wouldn't trade it, but I'd love to have a little more of it!

[Shell]

Most Indian women wash their hair once a week--twice at the most. That doesn't mean that you need to wash on that schedule--choose what works best for you, including using conditioner if that helps your hair.

I find that the best detangling for me happens under warm running water in the shower. I never detangle towel dried hair, but I often comb, or at least finger comb my hair when it's almost dry.

Herbs make my hair more full, and very silky. Sometimes I need to add oils for dressing it, or even conditioner after it's dry for tangle management--be sure you do what your hair asks you to do!

I love coconut oil, and I am a total vata--I do need to be careful not use it too much on my skin in the winter, or I can get really chilled. I should use almond oil or sesame oil, and it's true they are less likely to make me cold, but I prefer coconut oil.

[khyricat]

I have been doing the same routine as before herbal washes, but then again I was using a cassia based poo bar and herbal conditioning rinse before. I have a question though...

The first time I did the tea wash, it was with just made tea and was warmer. The second time I reheated it to bathwater temp and it didn't work as well. This time it was warmer again (fresh) and seemed to work better...

Do you notice a difference in the temperature vs cleaning properties? or in storage in fridge vs cleaning properties? Trying to decide if I should be NUKING it before use to heat it back up... but I actually prefer using it a bit cooler, it was a bit warm on my head this time..

as to detangling when wet- I find a LOT more breakage and shed when I do that, even to finger comb, then if I leave it alone until dry and then carefully comb it out.

Then again my hair is prone to breakage anyway..

Amie

[Shell]

khyricat:

I always found herbal washes to be best fresh, but okay after 3 or 4 days. How long did you store it? Warm should also be best, but I don't think it should matter that much--freshness seems most important.

If dry detangling works best for you, then that's what you should do! Don't worry that a lot of folks detangle wet--everyone's hair is different.

[ktani]

I always used to only detange damp hair after washing.

I was very surprised that wet detangling works better for me.

It may have to do with the fact that my hair is in better condition now.

My hair used to be very prone to breakage - it is not anymore.

I completely agree though - everyone's hair is different.

What works for some does not work for others.

When I had build-up on my hair - I could not wet detangle and damp and dry detangling was difficult too.

[khyricat]

I had it in the fridge for 4 days... then warmed it in the tub as I took a bath.. (nice thing about sealed jars)... I have stored the hibiscus/elderflower tea up to 2 weeks and gotten good results as a conditioning rinse, so I was surprised to see that much difference in just a few days with the added Senna.. though the washing is otherwise VERY worth it, I LOVE how my hair feels today... actually unbunned it at lunch as well as on break because I wanted to change bun styles when I had more time and I played with it a bit then too!

[Leisa]

Khyricat:) I've only ever used herbs fresh. Pour boiling water or hot water on them, steep about 20 minutes and use.

[khyricat]

I think thats a good plan and I'll have to start either using a tea ball and letting it steep in something in the bathroom, or planning more in advance than I have been.. we'll see what the reheated stuff does.. my problem is midweek time is SHORT to do much of anything and weekends aren't that much better...

[Hairstorm]

The first time I did the tea wash, it was with just made tea and was warmer. The second time I reheated it to bathwater temp and it didn't work as well. This time it was warmer again (fresh) and seemed to work better...

Do you notice a difference in the temperature vs cleaning properties? or in storage in fridge vs cleaning properties? Trying to decide if I should be NUKING it before use to heat it back up... but I actually prefer using it a bit cooler, it was a bit warm on my head this time..

as to detangling when wet- I find a LOT more breakage and shed when I do that, even to finger comb, then if I leave it alone until dry and then carefully comb it out.

Then again my hair is prone to breakage anyway..

AmieThat is an interesting question, and I haven't thought to compare before. I've been storing leftovers in the fridge for subsequent washes. I haven't noticed a correlation between freshness and cleaning power. I'll pay more attention next time.

I *have* noticed that a cool water scalp rinse keeps the greasies at bay a little longer.

[khyricat]

I'll test tomorrow or Thurs when I wash again by reheating the stored tea...

[stinastina]

I'm looking into this at the moment....once i get more info i'll make sure i pass it onto you :)

I'm interested, too !

[tiny_teesha]

I accidentally put in the arrow root flour BEFORE i adding the boiling water and sifted it. I thought- ah well. And when i added the hot water it looked like gravy!!!! No wonder! All this time i left the tea cool- sieved it and THEN added the flour and it was still a watery consistency! It usually is a milky green colour, but this time was a gravy consistency!!!! It was easier to apply and slimey but i only put a small amount of shikakai- so naturally it didn't take off much fo my day 5 hair gunk. But i just thought i'd let you guys know if anyone does it the other way.
No wonder why i needed to use so much flour to make it thick!!!

eta- that stuff is SO HARD to sieve! I think next time i will heat the tea and let it cool, sieve and add the flour and then reheat in the microwave to get the gravy consistency!!! :) It was realy like shampoo gell then!

[khyricat]

well the reheated and stored in fridge for 4 days tea washed, but not as well, so its not temp but storage thats affecting me with the senna.. I have arrowroot starch, I think I may use that instead of cornstarch next time and make a single batch each time in a mug.. wish the instant hot water tap hadn't DIED the other day. Maybe DH will get it fixed over the next few days.

[mira-chan]

I accidentally put in the arrow root flour BEFORE i adding the boiling water and sifted it. I thought- ah well. And when i added the hot water it looked like gravy!!!! No wonder! All this time i left the tea cool- sieved it and THEN added the flour and it was still a watery consistency! It usually is a milky green colour, but this time was a gravy consistency!!!! It was easier to apply and slimey but i only put a small amount of shikakai- so naturally it didn't take off much fo my day 5 hair gunk. But i just thought i'd let you guys know if anyone does it the other way.
No wonder why i needed to use so much flour to make it thick!!!

eta- that stuff is SO HARD to sieve! I think next time i will heat the tea and let it cool, sieve and add the flour and then reheat in the microwave to get the gravy consistency!!! :) It was realy like shampoo gell then!

I always heat it after straining when I add Arrowroot starch. I add about a tablespoon to a cup or so and it's a nice thick gravy.

[Leisa]

I just got some Tulsi, can't wait to try it.:)

I got great results from my herbal wash today, these are the ingredients:

3.5 heaping tbsp of reetha
3 tbsp of henna
3 tbsp of neem
enough hot water to make a gravy.

I know thats a lot of herbs but I've found that if I don't make a LOT, then I run out and miss places.

My hair is well cleaned but not at all dry and quite silky.:) Yeah!:cheese:

[hermosamendoza]

This article is abridged. For the complete article you can view the original wiki (http://bath-n-beauty.laurieashton.com/wiki/index.php?title=Using_Indian_Herbs_for_Hair_Care).

As soon as we have an articles section up and running I'll republish the complete article.

Thanks mira-chan for starting this thread!

this article is not available on wiki anymore. the first link in the first post does though

[jackie75]

I've been wanting to try an indian herbal wash forever...I finally got some and made up a watery paste of equal amounts of shikakai and brahmi with warm tap water. I pre-oiled with some amla oil. I'm going to apply my mix in a few minutes. :D I scanned through this thread...but wanted to be sure if it's ok to refrigerate leftovers?

I also read that brahmi can cause dark tones? Anyone else experience that? I don't mind since I have a bunch of gray and white anyway.

[mira-chan]

this article is not available on wiki anymore. the first link in the first post does though
The article is now published in the Articles section of LHC, link on the top bar.


I've been wanting to try an indian herbal wash forever...I finally got some and made up a watery paste of equal amounts of shikakai and brahmi with warm tap water. I pre-oiled with some amla oil. I'm going to apply my mix in a few minutes. :D I scanned through this thread...but wanted to be sure if it's ok to refrigerate leftovers?

I also read that brahmi can cause dark tones? Anyone else experience that? I don't mind since I have a bunch of gray and white anyway.I haven't heard brahmi specific staining but many Indian herbs do stain temporarily. It washes off in 1-3 washes with standard products.

[Kat]

Was at the Indian grocery tonight and got some aritha, shikakai, amla, and tulsi (I didn't get neem because I use that in my tooth soap and man it's stinky/tastes bad. Don't want to take a chance of my hair smelling like that). So now I just need to figure out what to do with them. :)

Part of me is afraid to try them. I have a quite-oily scalp (+ seborrheic dermatitis) and dry, damaged length. So I'm afraid the herbs won't get all of the oil out, AND won't condition the length enough, and I'll be stuck re-washing with shampoo and conditioner. (I only wash once a week because weekends are really the only time I can walk around with wet hair down for hours so it can dry. If I washed my hair at night after I got home from work, it wouldn't dry before I went to bed, and if I got up early in the morning to do it, I'd have to either blow-dry or go to work with my hair in a wet braid or bun and hope it would dry like that and not mildew or something, yuck.)

I just washed my hair, but didn't have time today to mess around with my herbs, so I'll try them next weekend. I'm thinking I'll use the herbs as a paste to really get my scalp clean. What do I do with the length, though? I don't usually shampoo my length-- only from root to about my shoulders. But if the amla is for conditioning, shouldn't it be on the length of my hair? Will having it run down as I rinse the stuff off my scalp be enough? Or should I make a separate amla tea and dip my hair?


When you oil your hair pre-wash, do you do the whole thing, even your scalp (even if it's already oily?)? Or should I just do the length like I usually do when I oil my hair? I'm just afraid oiling my scalp will make my scalp even less likely to get un-greasy.

[tiny_teesha]

Does anyone know hair herb recipe to prevent hair shedding that actually REALLY works?? I've been going herbal only the last 4 months and it's going quite miserable. Even though my hair looks perfectly NOT oily (due to some fancy dry shampoo recipes i've created) it is still shedding like insane!!!! I wash about 1-2 times a week depending, and my hair normally sheds on day 2-3 and the oilier it gets the more it sheds. Brushing my hand through my hair will result it a minimum of 20 hairs. Detangling my whole head of hair will shed about 400 hairs. My hair has gotten thinner but i would be more than happy to continue if i could get a recipe that will reduce this shedding!
Oils, conditioner will cause shedding, i have neeli oil that worked wonders but i dont think herbs will wash out oil, and i also find melting the coconutoil to be a hassle.
Suggestions?

[ChloeDharma]

Does anyone know hair herb recipe to prevent hair shedding that actually REALLY works?? I've been going herbal only the last 4 months and it's going quite miserable. Even though my hair looks perfectly NOT oily (due to some fancy dry shampoo recipes i've created) it is still shedding like insane!!!! I wash about 1-2 times a week depending, and my hair normally sheds on day 2-3 and the oilier it gets the more it sheds. Brushing my hand through my hair will result it a minimum of 20 hairs. Detangling my whole head of hair will shed about 400 hairs. My hair has gotten thinner but i would be more than happy to continue if i could get a recipe that will reduce this shedding!
Oils, conditioner will cause shedding, i have neeli oil that worked wonders but i dont think herbs will wash out oil, and i also find melting the coconutoil to be a hassle.
Suggestions?

I'm not sure anyone can really guarantee something will work. Do you know the cause of the shedding? If it's medical in origin then that would really have to be dealt with before any of these things will help. If the oiling with neelibringhadi oil helped but melting it is an issue (one I can sympathise with) what about trichup oil? That has excellent ingredients and helped me a lot in the past plus, it's sesame oil based so no need to melt it. Fenugreek packs are used for shedding and again, I love those. I do not use herbs myself to cleanse at the moment, just for convenience really but I do have a shampoo that is formulated with just shikakai, reetha and soapwort as cleansing agents. It also has aloe vera gel, rosemary and nettle root in it....that's it. It's very cleansing and takes out even the heaviest oiling with castor oil.
The only other advice I can give along the lines of this thread are that I found scalp oiling with a good ayurvedic hair oil very regularly combined with massage dramatically reduced my shedding when combined with herb washing and conditioning, methi being the constant there.

I hope you find a solution to this, I know from personal experience just how upsetting it can be to loose hair like this.

ETA maybe try this? http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=127455 Given your shedding gets worse after day two or three then maybe doing this each morning will help? Just an idea if you can be disciplined enough....I fail at self discipline otherwise I'd probably do it just to see if it gives a growth boost.

[majesticgoldenr]

Heres a question: when I wash my hair, I do a baking soda rinse. I ordered shikakai which is to come tomorrow. Can I mix them? What proportions if I use say 5 pinches of baking soda??? I'm just wondering if baking soda and the herb could go together together, or one after the other, or just either/or.

[pixicat]

I have some shikakai, henna, brahmi and bhringraj. It is better to apply it like a mask or like an herbal infusion? What is most effective?

[majesticgoldenr]

I have no experience, but I would imagine sitting with the mask on for a while would be most effective.

Just also harder to wash out, in theory.

[mira-chan]

Heres a question: when I wash my hair, I do a baking soda rinse. I ordered shikakai which is to come tomorrow. Can I mix them? What proportions if I use say 5 pinches of baking soda??? I'm just wondering if baking soda and the herb could go together together, or one after the other, or just either/or.
Baking soda is basic so it might change the effects of the herbs. I'd suggest trying herbs separately, then one after the other, then mixed and see what works best. The herbs have to sit for a few minutes but baking soda sitting would not be so good for the hair. Hair is naturally a bit acidic and cuticles open in a basic environment. Tell us how the different mixes work for you. :)


I have some shikakai, henna, brahmi and bhringraj. It is better to apply it like a mask or like an herbal infusion? What is most effective?
It's most commonly used as a mask though some people do use a herbal infusion but they use whole herbs not powdered. It is harder to wash out if you use the mask.

[pixicat]

Thanks for your answers! I'll use it as a mask :)

[alishaxmarie]

Is there a website you would suggest for learning more about ayurvedic hair care? I decided to read this thread since I'm interested in Indian herb washing. Afterwards, I read a few other webpages until I was able to determine that I am a vata type but don't really know where to go from there. I wouldn't want to waste any money buying herbs since I know nothing about them and I value your advice more than some random website, LHC-ers :)

[mira-chan]

There is some information on Indian herbs in the article linked in my signature. If you are a vata type, I'd err on the side of more moisturizing and less cleansing herbs. Fenugreek (methi) and yogurt hair masks would do well for you probably.

[alishaxmarie]

There is some information on Indian herbs in the article linked in my signature. If you are a vata type, I'd err on the side of more moisturizing and less cleansing herbs. Fenugreek (methi) and yogurt hair masks would do well for you probably.

Thank you very much Mira-Chan! :) I've bookmarked the page, and reading more about doshas is so interesting, I really want to start incorporating some ayurvedic practices into my routine such as the daily self-abhy massages. I can't wait until I can head over to the nearby Indian food store to pick up some herbs to try out!

[mira-chan]

Thank you very much Mira-Chan! :) I've bookmarked the page, and reading more about doshas is so interesting, I really want to start incorporating some ayurvedic practices into my routine such as the daily self-abhy massages. I can't wait until I can head over to the nearby Indian food store to pick up some herbs to try out!

You're welcome. Enjoy! When shopping, make sure to read the ingredients. The powdered herbs are usually ok. Some henna can have other stuff mixed in that you might want to be wary of (Fake Jamila henna for example). There are many wonderful oils to use. ChloeDharma is the best expert on those on the boards, I suggest asking her for recommendations in those.

[majesticgoldenr]

Question:

Lots of websites are saying to oil
then let it set
then apply shikakai
then set
then wash it out.

One said you can mix the powder with the coconut oil and cut half the time on the process.

Has anyone done this?

how much oil?

[AlexDig]

Ive been doing egg washes recently and love them but this thread is making me want to alternate with herbal washes again! I used to use soapnuts in a foam with other herbs brewed into it like a tea but I think this time around I'm going to make those mud packs like a lot of you are doing.

Irregardless of eggs or herbs, I should really get back in the habit of pre-oiling. I switched from preoiling to trying to oil afterwards and it didn't work except with mineral oil so kind of ended up abandoning the entire practice...but with winter weather here, I need to start!