Fine, Tangly, Spider-Web Hair

[UP Lisa]

The worst problem I have with my hair is that it gets tangles that turn into knots when I try to work them out. Then I can't get the knots out, so I have to cut them out. My hair just seems to stick together like a spider web. It's always been that way. You can take a section of it and comb through it over and over again, and each time it will tangle back up again.

Does anyone else have hair like this? If so, have you ever found a product that helps?

[spidermom]

Oh yes. Cones help. But what helps the most is combing my hair out all nice and smooth, then putting it up.

[windblown]

Yes, I was going to ask if you use cones or not and if you wear your hair up. My hair gets knots in it if I wear it down on windy days or if I wear it down when I'm wearing a coat. If you use cones, going no-cone might help and vise versa. Do you use any leave-in conditioner?

[Katze]

'cones help and deep treatments help.

I get this a lot. BF gets it too, and he's got thicker, curlier, but still fine hair. I think it's a fine hair thing. Mine gets like spiderwebs, exactly as you describe. BF's gets more matted, like furballs or unkempt dreadlocks.

The other day (Sat.) I did what Spidermom suggests with BF: CWC'd him with Avalon Organics ('coney), using the "C" phases to comb out tangles (because his hair is so thick) then put his damp hair into a tight dutch braid. He wore that to bed, and the next day at noon we took it out and rebraided it. His hair is a LOT smoother today, with lots less tangles. I think I am going to make him use 'cones for a while, and hope to have talked him into CWC.

Mine was getting like this a lot and I started doing SMTs regularly again. Seems to help...

[UP Lisa]

Actually, I can't even comb mine because it breaks off too much. The only time I really comb it is before a trim or a picture. Otherwise it's finger combimg.

[chrissy-b]

My hair used to do that if I slept with it loose, or wore it down for too long. It usually happened on the very fine hair on top. I haven't had that problem since I started using oils. My hair still tangles somewhat but it is much easier to detangle when the ends are a little oily. I've had the best luck with coconut oil.

[WindowDressing]

The worst problem I have with my hair is that it gets tangles that turn into knots when I try to work them out. Then I can't get the knots out, so I have to cut them out. My hair just seems to stick together like a spider web. It's always been that way. You can take a section of it and comb through it over and over again, and each time it will tangle back up again.

Does anyone else have hair like this? If so, have you ever found a product that helps?


Absolutely, dear UP Lisa. I ended up with a big tangled ball and went crazy and chopped it out. Fortunately I was directed here to LHC before I gave up and chopped more off!!

My problem, though you may be too young for this, was the grey hairs coming in a lot more noticeably since I stopped with my stylist of 20 years. He was toning the grey and I really never knew how much I actually had or or much my hair depended on his deep conditioning treatments and such. My soft normal hair was OK but the grey was wirey and breaking and tangling up with my normal hair. GRRR!!!

First step. Stop shampooing. Get some edible coconut oil and follow the oiling instructions here at LHC. I did the SMT of coconut oil and pure aloe vera gel.

Change to CO, I was using Humectress. I'm now using Suave Ocean Breeze or something like that. It has a shampoo which I use just a bit of when washing after oiling and/or SMT.

Get a MasonPearson Rake (or other totally seamless comb).

Within one month the tangles stopped. Hubby trimmed one last time in May 2007 and I haven't cut since. Very shiny and easy to comb out after CO washing no more than once a week. That is the toughest part, especially if you are used to frequent shampooing. But there are methods on here, just takes a bit more time, and your getting used to it all. :)

Funny thing is my hair/scalp doesn't get oily like it used to do.

Just a few days ago I learnt how an acidic rinse also could help, so I will try that after next oiling/shampoo as a final rinse.

Good Luck, and read the HairCare threads for recipes. Snowymoon had one in there I believe.

Love and Hugs!
WD :)

[UP Lisa]

Cones help somewhat, but not that much. I guess I should experiment more with oils. The only one I've really tried is Jojoba. It's just so easy to get too much on my baby-fine hair.

I braid my hair at night. I never let it blow. I wear it up pretty much all the time.

[WindowDressing]

Cones help somewhat, but not that much. I guess I should experiment more with oils. The only one I've really tried is Jojoba. It's just so easy to get too much on my baby-fine hair.

I braid my hair at night. I never let it blow. I wear it up pretty much all the time.

I have added a touch of jojoba sometimes. But the only thing that saved mine is the coconut oil just as chrissy-b said. My normal hair is fine, my grey hairs are much more coarse but now they are soft and glittery. I have white hairs now too.:o

Hugs!
WD :)

[spidermom]

Quite possibly your problem with developing knots has to do with finger-combing. It's not a very efficient method of detangling. Get a shower comb and try combing it out when it's full of conditioner, from the bottom and very carefully, of course. I use a hard-wood comb when my hair is dry; that's a good tool. I also use a Goody jojoba oil-infused brush when my hair is dry. It's a good product. The rubbery teeth are so soft that it's impossible for them to rip through a tangle. I sandwich my hair between the brush and my hair to get good penetration; my spider-webby hair is pretty thick.

[spidermom]

Oh, and my hair responds very well to coconut oil. Unfortunately the oil attracks dust and lint to my hair, which makes the snarling even worse, so now I apply coconut oil generously the day before I plan to wash it, then CWC my hair with diluted shampoo, which gets out most of the coconut oil but also leaves some, I think. My hair always feels so much more moisturized and pliable if I remember to do the oiling before washing.

[Redheaded Raven]

I don't use cone products. I use a drop of oil on my hands, rub hands together and run it through my hair. This seems to work very well. Just don't use too much oil at a time.:D Mostly use it on the ends , or at least from the nape down, and viola! :cheese:

[spidermom]

I don't use cone products. I use a drop of oil on my hands, rub hands together and run it through my hair. This seems to work very well. Just don't use too much oil at a time.:D Mostly use it on the ends , or at least from the nape down, and viola! :cheese:
And it doesn't make a bunch of particulates stick in your hair (dust, lint, etc)?

[lora410]

Sounds like mine used to be before I found LHC. By then I had chopped to shoulder because of this issue. try clarifying and then condition and oil as normal and see if that helps

[UP Lisa]

I did CO washing for about a year. It never did anything as far as letting me wash less often. My scalp is very oily - I'm afraid I inherited it from my Dad. I quit COing because I worried about leaving conditioner on my scalp all the time.

My hair is so baby-fine that I'm afraid combing it in the shower would be a disaster, even with conditioner on it. I've never actually tried it, though. Where did you get that brush? I've never seen one of those.

[spidermom]

I got mine at a local department store. Others report seeing it in places like Walgreens, Rite-Aid, other drug stores.

[UP Lisa]

I've been using sulfate shampoos, so I don't think it really needs clarifying. This is nothing new for my hair. Hair stylists were always amazed in the past at how it could tangle up agan as soon as you had combed through it. I've had so much hair pulled out by them over the years!

[Themyst]

I guess it's just a matter of experimenting to see what works best. I also have very fine, tangly hair. I can't even wear it in a pony tail because it's guaranteed that I'll get the big, dreaded knot at the back of my neck.

I've had bad results with some conditioners that have cones, but awful results with conditioners that don't contain cones. I currently use Tresseme (anti-breakage) and it has cones - it's been wonderful! It makes my hair nice & slippery. I finger-comb it in the shower with my conditioner on and it's much easier to comb out after I towel dry (gently).

If I wear my hair down, all I have to do is walk downstairs and load up the dishwasher - and my hair has tangles and knots in it. :angry: Unbelievable. I wear it up most of the time. I hang out on these boards now and write down all the ideas I can to keep my hair healthy and conditioned. I'll try some of them and maybe someday my hair will improve it's tangliness.

Oh, one thing I did to help my problem is a cassia gloss. I just did it this weekend and bunned my hair immediately afterward. I haven't washed it again yet to see the results yet. But it is supposed to help strengthen your hair. Have you tried it?

[WindowDressing]

Oh, and my hair responds very well to coconut oil. Unfortunately the oil attracks dust and lint to my hair, which makes the snarling even worse, so now I apply coconut oil generously the day before I plan to wash it, then CWC my hair with diluted shampoo, which gets out most of the coconut oil but also leaves some, I think. My hair always feels so much more moisturized and pliable if I remember to do the oiling before washing.

Yes, dear spidermom, good method.

I always oil before washing, the hair hangs on to some of it, I think it actually is cleaner than before. Like stuff doesn't get a chance to stick to it. It softens those greys right up.

I wear mine up almost always so it doesn't seem to get very dusty or linty unless it is from my bath towel (I use microfiber on my hair.)

Hugs!
WD :)

[lora410]

I've been using sulfate shampoos, so I don't think it really needs clarifying. This is nothing new for my hair. Hair stylists were always amazed in the past at how it could tangle up agan as soon as you had combed through it. I've had so much hair pulled out by them over the years!


Sulfates will not clarify your hair and if you check the back of the bottle you may even see cones listed. I had used pantene and other cone stuff and never clarified. Now I use Aveda hair detox to clarify when needed and it works great.

[MsBubbles]

I have the same problem with oily hair inherited from dear ol' Dad, and I have a similar hair type to you. I didn't start getting tangle problems until now, this first season for me of BSL hair and winter dryness, both inside buildings and out. I also have the same problem of not being able to oil my hair to where it doesn't look wet and stringy.

Rubbing oil onto my palms, whether it's coconut, jojoba, camellia or some kind of VO5 thing, and then running through my ends still makes my hair appear wet.

Best solution I came up with was to use a small 'fingertip spray' bottle - from the samples section in WalMart, 50c - and put a squirt of camellia oil in there and filled about 1/3 way up with water, and sprayed it very sparingly onto my hair. I was able to gently glide my fingers through my ends, tangle free. My hair didn't look soaked, it lay flat, finally, and didn't look so damaged.

However, I have since tweaked that unscientific amount and ruined it all again and now I sit here with wet-looking, greasy hair. :(

It's tricky but I'd suggest playing around with oil concentrations and light mist. I am also considering running a humidifier 24/7 at my home to see if that helps.

[UP Lisa]

I don't buy shampoos with cones in them. Clarifying shampoos just have higher concentrations of sulfates in them.

[heidihug]

Hey, northern neighbor. I have fine and relatively thin hair, extremely prone to tangles, too.

I do a lot of what spidermom does, and have good results with pre-wash coconut oilings (though no coconut oil after washing, that just seems to cause more tangling for me). Cones are definitely my friend. I tried no-cones products once, and my hair was a dry and matted mess. Never again.

I also finger-comb after washing, and I only use a Denman (un-seamed) brush to gently detangle dry hair. Can take me up to 25 minutes if my hair has been braided, only about 5 if it was bunned. I rarely wear my hair down, and regret it pretty much every time I do because I cause so much damage trying to detangle.

I should never wear ponytails, either, that's dreadlock city. The only way I can get away with them is to band the tail every few inches.

Good luck with your experiments.

[Amara]

What you're describing actually sounds to me like the streak of bleached blond hair I have. I can't comb or finger comb it while wet, it just knots itself up as I try to come, and ends up just like the OP said.

Do you have previous chemical damage? My solution for that streak is to leave it alone while wet, then give it some coconut oil when dry and I can comb it out then.

[UP Lisa]

I have never in my life done anything to the color of my hair.

[ReadingRenee]

I have the same kind of hair that you describe. Cones have really been helpful for me and oiling but I can't use just any cone product or it weighs down my floaty hair.

I do what Spidermom does. I do a diluted CWC probably once every 5 days and on day 4 I oil it and braid it back. So then on day 5 I wash most of that out. And use a coney condish for the final C.

[Babyfine]

I've never had hair beyond (bottom) of BSL- but I've noticed that as I approach BSL and beyond I have a LOT more problems with tangles, then when it's like -SL.

I CWC every three days. When I wear my hair up- it doesn't tangle as much- but when I wear it down I must comb through it several times a day gently with a wide-tooth comb or I will have massive tangles at the end of the day. I try to wear my hair up a lot-which it seems you do too.
I do have to use cones moderately, or I couldn't have longer hair than SL. My hair is now colored with a demi-perm, but my hair was this way even when it was
"virgin" hair when I was young. It's one reason why I always used to give up and cut it back.
I've always had tangley hair. In the wind, my hair must be contained or up.
Nioxin Scalp therapy which I use has amodimethcone, I also use a satin pillowcase at night.
Even when I wear a low pony tail the tail is tangled if I don't run a comb through it several times during the day.

[Anje]

I get this to some degree, and I'm currently cone-less.

Like Spidermom, I've noticed that if I have lint in my hair, it makes the re-tangling effect 1000x worse. My solution is generally to detangle, first with fingers, then a comb, then a brush, and finally, I use a BBB on the ends, which does a good job at removing lint and cat fuzz. That causes instant improvement, though washing is better when the hair gets really fuzzy (like after wearing my chenille sweater).

Do you have protein in your products? I've noticed an increase in tangling when I'm overloaded on protein, and you might have something similar, though it's hit steady-state with your current routine.

Shampooing my length, conditioning, and then drying in a bun seems to increase my slip to undesirable extremes (can't get my hair to stay in anything for about 2 days). Might help?

[Silverlox]

My hair is so baby-fine that I'm afraid combing it in the shower would be a disaster, even with conditioner on it. I've never actually tried it, though. Where did you get that brush? I've never seen one of those.

I've got super-fine hair too and it does tangle a lot. I suppose being wurly doesn't help much either. :rolleyes:

The combing hair with conditioner in doesn't work for me at all. I've tried, but the only result was ripping and breaking hair. Ouch!

A solution that works well for me is to comb it while rinsing out the conditioner. Shower thingie in one hand and wide tooth comb in the other. The conditioner gives slip and the water running through hair helps a lot to align the strands. Of course, it's still important to start combing from the hem up, like when it's dry, or else you just tighten any tangles that might be there. In order to not run of out of conditioner before I'm done combing, I hold the shower head aiming the water just above where I'm combing, gradually working my way up to the scalp.

HTH. As always, YMMV

[catfish]

I have this problem too big time:( My hair is never slippery or silky, cones, no cones, it makes no difference. What works for me doesn't work for everyone but it may be worth a try.

First, check out catnip, there is a thread about it in the Recipes, Herbal,Henna section and it is great at reducing tangles. Second, I don't use any commercial conditioners, they just make my hair more tangly.:rolleyes: I suggest shea butter, as far as oils and butters go, shea butter gives me the most slip and detangling of any I've tried.

I hope this helps and good luck with the tangles:o

[jojo]

My hair is the same type as yours and I get this too, I find combing it whilst rinsing and also using as cold a water as I can stand helps. I have also been using ego boost by Tigi which is working wonders too.

[busnutmedic]

This happens to my hair sometimes and I do not know why. But I'm wondering now about the cones. While I was overseas for two weeks I used my sisters conditioner (she packed that for the two of us) and one day in particular my hair felt sooo nice, I thought that I would never complain about my hair again if it always felt like that.

I just used a non-cone conditioner today and it is tangly like you mentioned. I think I will try cones again and see how it feels.

[RocketDog]

oh, yes, I do too! When I used to straighten my hair I'd have to carry combs around and untangle it every 10-15 minutes or so - even loaded with 'cones and leave-ins and all sorts of other junk!

even now, with healthier hair, it tangles easily. If I wear it down (which is becoming less and less frequent, due to the season and its obnoxious length) it tangles horribly, even if I oil it and don't touch it at all. The best thing for my hair is to gently comb it then twist it up, where it CAN'T get tangled.

[GibsonGirlV]

My hair isn't as fine as yours, but it does tangle and break off easily. If I leave it down during the day, there will be all sorts of rats nests starting up on the under layer of my hair. I can't use cones or my hair gets too dry and brittle. I only comb my hair when it's soaking wet and freshly conditioned. I finally found a brush that does the trick for me. It's the Sonia Kashuk Brush from Target. It's supposed to be similar to the ever-so-pricy Mason Pearson brush. It smooths and detangles my hair gently and makes my hair sooo shiny. I absolutely love it. Other brushes I've used just make a mess of things. Regular boar bristle brushes don't get the tangles out, and most other brushes are too harsh on my hair.

[Katze]

Quite possibly your problem with developing knots has to do with finger-combing. It's not a very efficient method of detangling. Get a shower comb and try combing it out when it's full of conditioner, from the bottom and very carefully, of course.

This was what I meant with combing. We now have a 'comb for curls' that is plastic, seamless, and something between a 'wide toothed' comb and an Afro comb. It works just as well for my straighter hair as for BF's curls. I bet such a comb - used with conditioner on your hair, starting from the bottom - would work.

Brushing doesn't detangle my hair well, especially at the ends, which tend to tangle more. I really only ever brush before washing, and not always.

[UP Lisa]

Lots of good ideas. Thank you so much. It really helps to hear from people with the same type of hair. I think unless you actually have this baby-fine stuff, you can't possibly imagine how fragile and tangly it is.

I don't have a Target store here, but maybe I could find that brush online? Also, I will look for that Goody brush. I am going to try to find a good clarifier. Any ideas? Maybe that is part of my problem. I love my waves, but I think they do add to the problem, also.

[UP Lisa]

GibsonGirly,

Which brush is it? I see two different ones at Target.com.

Lisa

[Delila]

I've got fine hair too. Conditioning with the right conditioners seems to help, but I'm not certain there's any rhyme or reason to which conditioner will be right on any given day.

If you haven't tried catnip rinses yet, give it a try. For me, as it's drying, it seems kind of badly tangled, but once it's almost completely dry, it's easy to handle and detangle.

I've got the oily scalp issue too, and the catnip rinse seems to provide just enough oil, not too much.

Here's a link to a comb (http://www.sallybeauty.com/Mebco-Tortoise-Shower-Detangler/SBS-183952,default,pd.html) you might want to try, if you're in the mood to experiment. I like the way it seems to help keep my hair from doing that weirdly poofy braid wave thing quite so much. I finger detangle first, then use this to smooth down my hair if it needs it.

I do mostly finger comb, and don't really think that's any kind of problem. Key for me is making SURE my hands are clean and dry, so I don't inadvertently transfer something to my hair that might cause problems.

Lint is a problem, though, I almost always find a bit of lint in the center of my worst knots, and you might want to look around your environment to see if there are any lint-heavy culprits lurking. Towels or sheets might be a problem, but it's possible that there's something else in your environment that puts a bit more lint in your environment than you realize.

[Redheaded Raven]

And it doesn't make a bunch of particulates stick in your hair (dust, lint, etc)?

Hi Spidermom I use macadamia nut oil and dry my hair using tee shirt and that makes for almost zero lint in my hair I found that it was coming from my towels and things when I dried my hair at least this works for me
if I use too much oil I do get line

[spidermom]

Thanks for getting back to me about that, rhr.

One other thing. In its natural state, my hair has wurls and curls going in all different directions. When I allow it to air dry, which I often do, some ends get all snarled around each other. When I untangle, those ends have a scrunched or wadded appearance, and they keep grabbing onto each other and other hairs, making combing my hair a nightmare. On the other hand, when I take the time to blow-dry (very carefully on warm to the scalp area and cool to the length), those ends get smoothed out. I don't get scrunches and wads, and my hair isn't continually grabbing onto neighboring hairs. I position the dryer so that it's blowing down my hair from above, and the moving air seems to help align the hairs so that combing out is much, much easier. I'm beginning to think that blow-drying is less damaging in the long run because it prevents my hair from snarling up so bad.

[UP Lisa]

Well, last night I gave my hair a good washing with plain old Suave green apple shampoo. Then I used Mane & Tail conditioner. After that I used Sunsilk leave-in. It does seem smoother and somewhat less tangly this morning. I guess maybe I do need that sulfate shampoo. I have tried several non-sulfate shampoos, but may hair never seems to get as clean.

[lilangelske13]

hey, :) make sure you do not brush your hair all too often. to keep it shiney and silky often times the best method is to only comb your hair from bottom to roots while it is very soft preferablly while it has conditioner in it only while it is wet under running water while you are in the shower.

don't use a blowdryer that will screw up your hair very badly if it is tender. just let it air dry. you can fold a towel over the top of your head over your hair and then fold it under so it looks like you are wearing a nuns cap :p doesn't it look cute, i have been doing that for the last week or so and it has been working very well. and it helps keep the moisture in your hair as well. then you can let it air dry

last but not least try a mayo + egg moisturising treatment. you will notice a difference. but be patient = ]

[UP Lisa]

I don't use hair dryers at all, and I haven't been doing any brushing. I am very gentle with my hair.

[EdG]

I find that lint causes a lot of my tangles.

Next time you comb out a mat, hold it up to a bright light. I usually find pieces of lint holding the mat together.

I haven't found a good way to avoid lint. :confused:
Ed

[JamieLeigh]

I don't think the debate will EVER end as to whether cones are helpful or harmful! I have not had any problems since using the leave-in conditioners and the moisture treatments which are full of...you guessed it! Cones!!

Mine gets really tangly in the wintertime when I wear a hoodie jacket, because it all pools in the hood. So I just mostly wear it up with a coat.

[UP Lisa]

So are there any leave-ins that you all would recommend for fine hair?

[heidihug]

As for leave-ins, I always use carnation oil on my ends - very light and it smells nice. In addition, I sometimes use 1) TIGI Catwalk Fast-Fixx spray leave-in (can get at certain salons), or 2) diluted conditioner such as Dove Ultimate Therapy, or 3) Infusium 23 Original liquid leave-in. All of these I apply to just-washed, damp hair.

Some people have success with coconut oil as a leave-in, though I have not, it seems to weigh my hair down and cause tangles even if I use just a bit.

[Arctic]

Here's a great article from Fia: click (http://archive.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=39555)

[UP Lisa]

Thank you, Arctic. That is a great article!

[Katze]

So are there any leave-ins that you all would recommend for fine hair?

My hair is mostly baby fine, and I love, love, love Goth Rosary as a leave-in. I usually use "Nothingness" (unscented) so it doesn't clash with whatever scent I'm wearing that day. GR is light, yet penetrating - I would have to use a lot to really deep condition my hair, but love it as a leave-in and in my mister.

[Faepirate]

My topmost layer of hair is like this! It's very fine and fragile and super curly (curlier than any other part of my hair) and tangles so easily. The only thing that helps is to pile conditioner on in the shower and then not touch it afterwards at all. It then clumps into a vaguely civilised collection of curly locks. I try not to comb my hair much. I find that frequent detangling is a road to breakage. If I can't cope, I braid it or shove it up in a twisty 'do.

I have not had much success with oils or leave-ins.