Should we restructure the Length-Specific Threads?

[Vara La Fey]

There's ongoing talk about combining Waist To Hip and Waist To Tailbone threads. YAY that! Actually, our support system is so important to us, and we love graduating to new milestone threads so much, that maybe we should perfect our whole Length-Specific thread system.

The Index to Important Threads and Resources (https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/announcement.php?f=9&a=11) currently lists these:

All Lengths Post Here
Buzz to Chin Length
Chin to Shoulder Length
Shoulder to APL Length
APL to MBL Length
MBL to Waist Length
Waist to Hip Length
Hip to Tailbone Length
Waist to Tailbone Length
Tailbone to Classic Length
Classic to Knee Length
Knee Length and Beyond!
Floor Length and Beyond!
Non-Growth Oriented Thread for Shorter Lengths

I consulted the Length Chart y'all helped me create (https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/content.php?r=775-Length-Chart-front-back-view-24nov2022) last year, and I searched for thread titles. So here's that same list with changes we might consider:

All Lengths Post Here
Buzz to Chin Length
^ 1466 pgs, skips Ear. Maybe split, even tho markers are only 2" apart
Buzz To Ear
^ Maybe need to create this?
Ear To Chin (https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=33635)
^ 1 pg. Exists, is a tiny thread, prolly should add to Threads List
Chin to Shoulder Length
Shoulder To Collarbone
^ There's a few inches here, maybe worth creating this?
Collarbone To Armpit Length
^ Likely worth creating this
Shoulder to APL Length
^ 1630 pgs, skips CBL, several inches between, worth splitting this?
APL to MBL Length
MBL to Waist Length
Waist to Hip Length
Hip To Buttcrack Length (https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=125504)
^ 50 pgs, exists and should be added to Threads list
Buttcrack To Tailbone
^ There's not a lot of inches between here, maybe not worth creating?
Hip to Tailbone Length
^ 288 pgs. Skips BCL. Maybe should split.
Waist to Tailbone Length
^ 1323 pgs. Skips Hip and BCL, totally split and merge w Waist To Hip
Tailbone to Classic Length
Classic To Fingertip Length
^ Seems badly needed, and FTL is a common standard hair and skirts
Fingertip To Mid-Thigh
^ Maybe needed, maybe not. Is only ~2" down from FTL
Mid-Thigh [or FTL] To Knee
^ Seems badly needed
Classic to Knee Length
^ 695 pgs. Horrible category. Covers 18" and skips two markers.
Knee To Calf
^ Seems badly needed
Calf To Ankle
^ Seems badly needed
Ankle To Floor
^ Seems moderately needed
Knee Length and Beyond!
^ 428 pgs. ICK!!! Covers infinity and skips 3 markers. Split merge kill death die!
Floor Length and Beyond!
TERMINAL (https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=90499)
^ 147 pgs. Exists, is important subject, blah blah, totally should add to list.
Non-Growth Oriented Thread for Shorter Lengths

I don't know how practical it is to split extant threads, but some of them def need it. As said, we love our length-specific support and we love our threads we can graduate (or demote ourselves) into.

[Bat]

Changing my list a bit probably getting a bit overboard lol I know I said originally that it was too nit picky but here I am now trying to be inclusive of all milestones

All Lengths Thread
Buzz to Cheekbone or Buzz to Pixie
Cheekbone to Chin or Pixie to Chin
Chin to Shoulder
Shoulder to Collarbone
Collarbone to Armpit
Armpit to Midback
Midback to Waist
Waist to Hip
Hip to Butt (sounds better than Buttcrack)
Butt to Tailbone
Tailbone to MTL
Fingertip ( fingertip seems to be pretty popular so maybe have its own thread??)
Mid thigh to Knee
Knee to Upper Calf
Upper Calf to Lower calf
Lower Calf to Ankle
Ankle to Floor and Beyond
Terminal

[giraff]

Wow, you've put a lot of effort into this! I applaud you :bowtome:

I agree with Bat. To add to the argument, I also think these threads have come about organically and there's probably good reasons why there are fewer groups for classic+. If you think about it, Waist to TBL is probably the same distance as three other threads combined..

But I agree with you, Vara La Fey, that overlapping threads are confusing. I myself wondered which of three threads I was supposed to join (Waist to Hip Length, Hip to Tailbone Length or Waist to Tailbone Length), and to me it felt like spamming to write similar posts in all three..

[Vara La Fey]

I'd like this order honestly some of this is a bit too nit pickie\
Buzz to Chin includes ear/jaw etc
Chin to Shoulder
Shoulder to APL
APL to MBL
MBL to Waist
Waist to Hip
Hip to TBL (includes bcl)
TBL to Classic
Classic to Midthigh (can include fingertip since fingertip and mtl can be very similar)
MTL to Knee
Knee to Calf
Calf to Floor+
Terminal

Maybe any marker that's 3" (6 months growth time) away from other markers should get its own thread. A lot can happen in 6 months.

That'd make Ear arguable for inclusion, esp since hair 'health' issues are a big part of length threads, and hair that's <chin length shouldn't have such issues.
Collarbone would be arguable.
BCL would be arguable.
FTL/MT could likely just be FTL, since that's a common skirt length anyway.
Ankle def needs its own category. It's totally a marker, esp for people who don't want to actually step on their hair.

[Vara La Fey]

Wow, you've put a lot of effort into this! I applaud you :bowtome:

I agree with Bat. To add to the argument, I also think these threads have come about organically and there's probably good reasons why there are fewer groups for classic+. If you think about it, Waist to TBL is probably the same distance as three other threads combined..

But I agree with you, Vara La Fey, that overlapping threads are confusing. I myself wondered which of three threads I was supposed to join (Waist to Hip Length, Hip to Tailbone Length or Waist to Tailbone Length), and to me it felt like spamming to write similar posts in all three..

Thanks for the cute "not-worthy" anim-icon thingy. :-) I didn't even know it existed.

They seem organic to me too, which is good because they're needed, and bad because they're a mess.

It dawned on me a few min ago that any marker <3" (6 months) from another marker maybe doesn't need to be a milestone/marker at all, and thus doesn't need its own thread. That might eliminate Ear, CBL, BCL and MT. We could measure ourselves and find a rough average, but I'm too tired tonight....

Waist To Tailbone is just wrong. I say split it and merge the parts where they belong. Ditto for all other overlappers.

[Bat]

wheen i think about it I honestly wouldn't mind

Buzz to Ear and Ear to Chin so i feel i'm graduating sooner than i actually am

[giraff]

You could also take into consideration the hair length polls (https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=155580). Although I do not know how representative they are, since the amount of people voting is far less than the number of members.

[Vara La Fey]

wheen i think about it I honestly wouldn't mind
Buzz to Ear and Ear to Chin so i feel i'm graduating sooner than i actually am

I think there should be enough markers to keep the incentive as well as address the unique issues encountered at each length. But no more markers are needed than that. Which part of the ear would count as Ear Length?

The 3"/6mo thing might work to keep too many markers from being created. But it doesn't address long stretches like FTL - Knee or Calf - Ankle.

[Bat]

I think there should be enough markers to keep the incentive as well as address the unique issues encountered at each length. But no more markers are needed than that. Which part of the ear would count as Ear Length?

The 3"/6mo thing might work to keep too many markers from being created. But it doesn't address long stretches like FTL - Knee or Calf - Ankle.

I'm fine with keeping it buzz to Chin i just wouldn't be opposed if they did it ear, bcl and collarbone don't really need a topic fingertip is arguble since mosy people like the idea but some like me prefer mtl to be mentioned it was my goal when i first joined

[Vara La Fey]

You could also take into consideration the hair length polls (https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=155580). Although I do not know how representative they are, since the amount of people voting is far less than the number of members.

Totally. I just didn't know where they were. Thanks.

Pretty consistent bell-cluster at MBL-TBL. Does that mean we should have more length-specific threads in that range?

211 voters for the '22 poll is great. Not everyone needs to participate to get a good sample.

[cookies]

Thank you for taking the time for this Vara La Fey!

It’s tough to determine which markers are 3in apart when that varies so widely from person to person.
On my body for example, I’d split the Waist to Classic into WL to BCL and BCL to Classic. Also FTL=MTL on me.
I do like the list Bat suggested. And I do think Buzz to Ear and Ear to Chin is an important split, because starting from scratch can be the toughest, so getting to graduate a thread soon-ish can be very encouraging I imagine.

[Vara La Fey]

I'm fine with keeping it buzz to Chin i just wouldn't be opposed if they did it ear, bcl and collarbone don't really need a topic fingertip is arguble since mosy people like the idea but some like me prefer mtl to be mentioned it was my goal when i first joined

On me CBL is way more than 3" from SL and from APL, so should still be over 3" on most people. Thus I say CBL totally needs its own marker and thread.

Also on me FTL and MT are the same. I think FTL is important due to common skirt length in corporate dress codes, but MT is the same on everyone regardless of proportions, which is also important and maybe more meaningful. Hmmm....

[Vara La Fey]

Thank you for taking the time for this Vara La Fey!
It’s tough to determine which markers are 3in apart when that varies so widely from person to person.
On my body for example, I’d split the Waist to Classic into WL to BCL and BCL to Classic. Also FTL=MTL on me.
I do like the list Bat suggested. And I do think Buzz to Ear and Ear to Chin is an important split, because starting from scratch can be the toughest, so getting to graduate a thread soon-ish can be very encouraging I imagine.

YW. :)

3" is important because that's 6 months of growth on average. So I'm not considering just the length, but that stretch of time in which anything can happen. Plus I think 6 months seems like a nice graduation interval.

Agreed that early graduation is prolly good incentive to keep going. Where on the ear constitutes Ear Length?

[Bat]

Changing my list a bit probably getting a bit overboard lol I know I said originally that it was too nit picky but here I am now trying to be inclusive of all milestones

All Lengths Thread
Buzz to Cheekbone or Buzz to Pixie
Cheekbone to Chin or Pixie to Chin
Chin to Shoulder
Shoulder to Collarbone
Collarbone to Armpit
Armpit to Midback
Midback to Waist
Waist to Hip
Hip to Butt (sounds better than Buttcrack)
Butt to Tailbone
Tailbone to MTL
Fingertip ( fingertip seems to be pretty popular so maybe have its own thread??)
Mid thigh to Knee
Knee to Upper Calf
Upper Calf to Lower calf
Lower Calf to Ankle
Ankle to Floor and Beyond
Terminal

Quoting myself as I edited my post

[lapushka]

I think I would leave well enough alone. :) Oh gosh, why the upheaval? :( :no: These threads are "ingrained" into the LHC by now. Changing things up will bring *so much confusion* about that it's not going to be "nice" and will actually (IMO) scare people off from posting. You can't police something that has grown into what it has grown into. It's just MHO, I don't know how anyone else feels, as I just browsed the first post. It seems a whole lot of effort to just get some "structure" into something that can't be structured, but that's me.

I mean, I applaud your efforts, but I fear they are in vain. :(

[Bat]

There is nothing wrong with change updating at the very least just fix up so we don't have 2-3 tailbone waist hip threads

[Aerya]

I think it could be nice to at least merge the threads that have the same lengths, like waist to hip and waist to tailbone. :)

[Bat]

https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=156026 I made a vote thread that's just for voting in the poll can add to the first post possibly

[neko_kawaii]

It is a bit of a mess, isn’t it!

I don’t have time to do the figuring out, but keep discussing and make detailed specific suggestions and I can merge, rename, and update the index as needed once folks are happy with their ideas.

One suggestion, if new separate threads are more useful than merging, we can lock the older thread(s) and put links to the new both as a new post and as an ETA in the old so when folks who had previously participated in those threads turn up they can find the redirects to the active threads.

[rosenester]

I would have rather there been a Waist -Hip and a Hip-Tailbone thread myself, but I have posted photos with my WL hair in the latter along with many others and it would be out of the place if the name is changed. Since the waist-hip thread is very quiet I don’t post there even though I would rather be able to graduate another length thread eventually. :laugh: merging the two would probably be easier than attempting the split the waist-tailbone thread, I assume!

[cookies]

It is a bit of a mess, isn’t it!

I don’t have time to do the figuring out, but keep discussing and make detailed specific suggestions and I can merge, rename, and update the index as needed once folks are happy with their ideas.

One suggestion, if new separate threads are more useful than merging, we can lock the older thread(s) and put links to the new both as a new post and as an ETA in the old so when folks who had previously participated in those threads turn up they can find the redirects to the active threads.
Upon reading and thinking some more, here’s what I’d do:
- make sure there’s a thread for each milestone, no skipping (WL to HL might be a month or two of growth for me and redundant, but it might be a six month journey for someone else and therefore not; also we all have different goals, so by skipping/merging milestones in threads would leave some of us hanging);
- leave the threads already corresponding to that as they are (for example APL to MBL and MBL to WL);
- archive threads that merge milestones (for example WL to TBL);
- make new threads or revive old ones for the missing milestones (for example Buzz to Ear and Ear to Chin);
- update links in the thesaurus.

Time and distance to grow between milestones is too personal to have a consensus on which to merge, so if we’re updating, might as well do ‘em all :D

[lapushka]

Quick question. Are *all* of those threads on the "mane" forum, or are some on more restrictive parts of the site; also something to consider. I don't suddenly want stuff "out there" that was private before (if that's the case).

No. No. Sorry. I think it's a bad idea!

[MusicalSpoons]

[/COLOR]Classic to Knee Length
^ 695 pgs. Horrible category. Covers 18" and skips two markers.
Knee To Calf
^ Seems badly needed
Calf To Ankle
^ Seems badly needed
Ankle To Floor
^ Seems moderately needed
Knee Length and Beyond!
^ 428 pgs. ICK!!! Covers infinity and skips 3 markers. Split merge kill death die!


I disagree that new threads are needed here. All of my growing was in the existing threads, and honestly especially the knee and beyond there are not enough growers to sustain separate threads, AND seeing others at longer lengths in those threads while you're still actively growing is such needed motivation, precisely because the milestones are so far apart. The haircare and styles don't all uniformly change at those milestones in between, it's only really classic-FTL where a lot of people find they have to change how they handle or style their hair. Every other length beyond that, people hit their tipping points at different lengths and having people active in the thread who've already trodden that path and can give insight is really helpful.

You'll have to prise the Knee-length and beyond thread out of my cold, dead hands :patrol::p

[MusicalSpoons]

Oh also, for classic to knee, some people have a big distance between FTL and mid-thigh, some have little or no gap, and some people reach FTL after mid-thigh. Bodies can be fascinatingly unique. If the concensus does turn out to be to split the thigh abyss, then really it needs to split at FTL or MTL, separate threads for both won't work for everyone.

The thigh abyss is when you most need the motivation of people already at knee, though, and the same with the calf abyss. And especially in the calf abyss it's unusual for growers to have to change things up and learn new styles/new ways of doing styles, so there's usually really much less to talk about than at the shorter lengths when people are still finding their routine and adapting to ever longer hair. Yes there are some unique experiences and challenges that only come with hair past knee/calf/etc. but people encounter those at all different lengths depending on how thick their hair is, their texture, their existing routine, etc. Splitting into separate threads after knee would be utterly pointless, I think. The Floor+ thread is pretty dormant most of the time, it's a valuable thread but just doesn't have the activity. I fear splitting the knee+ thread into milestones between knee and floor would result in similarly dormant threads.

[Sorry for the double post but I think these points were too important to edit in and risk getting missed.]

Edit: also knee to calf is literally 2-3 inches. By the time you've grown to knee, six months to the next milestone is kind of … nothing. Same with ankle to floor, although by then those extra few months really are nothing, for some the least certain part there can be whether your hair will actually reach it floor or not (and those few months will fly by whether you get there or not), and for others who are certain they'll be able to grow then those 4-6months are almost irrelevant in terms of hair growing. It can take longer than that to decide to trim! :lol:

[lapushka]

My gosh, if we would only have to create threads because they are "needed". No, I don't even know where the heck the idea suddenly busted out from but man, I almost feel offended. I would be even more so if I were at greater lengths and did not have a "home" to go to. :(

[Vara La Fey]

I think I would leave well enough alone. :) Oh gosh, why the upheaval? :( :no: These threads are "ingrained" into the LHC by now. Changing things up will bring *so much confusion* about that it's not going to be "nice" and will actually (IMO) scare people off from posting. You can't police something that has grown into what it has grown into. It's just MHO, I don't know how anyone else feels, as I just browsed the first post. It seems a whole lot of effort to just get some "structure" into something that can't be structured, but that's me.
I mean, I applaud your efforts, but I fear they are in vain. :(

There's a definite and necessary structure to the Length Threads themselves: the markers we all know and constantly refer to. The Length Threads obviously need to reflect those, and at present they only partially do.

There are redundant threads, missing threads, and threads which exist but aren't in the Resources List. Some of these are very easy fixes, others not so much. And in most cases we can't just create new threads without introducing more redundancy.

Can't imagine the proper structure would scare anybody off from posting, since every post intended for a Length Thread would have a clear unambiguous home.

[Vara La Fey]

It is a bit of a mess, isn’t it!
I don’t have time to do the figuring out, but keep discussing and make detailed specific suggestions and I can merge, rename, and update the index as needed once folks are happy with their ideas.
One suggestion, if new separate threads are more useful than merging, we can lock the older thread(s) and put links to the new both as a new post and as an ETA in the old so when folks who had previously participated in those threads turn up they can find the redirects to the active threads.

That might be a good way to do it, as a thread like the current Waist To Tailbone will contain posts which should go into WL To HL, others into HL To BCL, and still others into BCL To TBL.

Can posters quote from the old locked thread when posting into a new thread? And can the poster get a multiple-choice option of which new thread the quote should go into?

[Vara La Fey]

I would have rather there been a Waist -Hip and a Hip-Tailbone thread myself, but I have posted photos with my WL hair in the latter along with many others and it would be out of the place if the name is changed. Since the waist-hip thread is very quiet I don’t post there even though I would rather be able to graduate another length thread eventually. :laugh: merging the two would probably be easier than attempting the split the waist-tailbone thread, I assume!

Sorry, I don't understand. Here is a length chart (https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=47703&d=1664088434). It really makes it easier to visualize the length threads and proposed changes.

Did you post your WL hair photos into the Hip To Tailbone thread? They'd be out of place there with or without a name change.

I personally don't propose changing the Waist To Hip thread anyway - it's one of the few which is already perfectly categorized.

Hip To Tailbone skips BCL, which might not be a big deal because those milestones are close together, but a Hip To BCL thread already exists (50 pages) and just wasn't mentioned in the Resources List. I see no point in skipping it when it's needed and is already right there.

Are you saying we should merge Waist To Hip and Hip To Tailbone threads? That's what we already have with the Waist To Tailbone thread, and it skips both Hip and BCL and is a looong growth time between markers.

[Vara La Fey]

Upon reading and thinking some more, here’s what I’d do:
- make sure there’s a thread for each milestone, no skipping (WL to HL might be a month or two of growth for me and redundant, but it might be a six month journey for someone else and therefore not; also we all have different goals, so by skipping/merging milestones in threads would leave some of us hanging);
- leave the threads already corresponding to that as they are (for example APL to MBL and MBL to WL);
- archive threads that merge milestones (for example WL to TBL);
- make new threads or revive old ones for the missing milestones (for example Buzz to Ear and Ear to Chin);
- update links in the thesaurus.
Time and distance to grow between milestones is too personal to have a consensus on which to merge, so if we’re updating, might as well do ‘em all :D

Generally agreed with all that. Only difference is that I'd be ok with skipping some markers which are really close together for many/most people, such as skipping FTL and just using MT. I tend to think that if markers are less than 3" apart for most people, they prolly don't need their own thread. (I'm ok with doing all markers, but I understand if some of them wouldn't be worth the work.) 3" is 6 months of avg growth time, which seems like a good interval before graduation and also like it's enough time for setbacks to occur as well. So I think ideally markers should be every 6 months whenever the human body allows it.

Currently a couple of our Length Threads have intervals of three years for a taller person like me. Waist To Tailbone. Classic To Knee. Three years is just absurd.

[Vara La Fey]

Quick question. Are *all* of those threads on the "mane" forum, or are some on more restrictive parts of the site; also something to consider. I don't suddenly want stuff "out there" that was private before (if that's the case).
No. No. Sorry. I think it's a bad idea!

Good question, so I just checked them all. Every Length Thread I've mentioned is either on Mane or doesn't yet exist and is intended to be on Mane.

[Vara La Fey]

I disagree that new threads are needed here. All of my growing was in the existing threads, and honestly especially the knee and beyond there are not enough growers to sustain separate threads, AND seeing others at longer lengths in those threads while you're still actively growing is such needed motivation, precisely because the milestones are so far apart. The haircare and styles don't all uniformly change at those milestones in between, it's only really classic-FTL where a lot of people find they have to change how they handle or style their hair. Every other length beyond that, people hit their tipping points at different lengths and having people active in the thread who've already trodden that path and can give insight is really helpful.

This is all definitely possible, and not having made that journey myself I can't directly address it. I just know for sure that equivalent threads are needed along the journey I have made. But maybe the true long-hairs should debate the true long-hair threads. I'm a mere WLer, and I've heard many times that things change quite a bit after HL or so.



If the concensus does turn out to be to split the thigh abyss, then really it needs to split at FTL or MTL, separate threads for both won't work for everyone.

Agreed. And FTL/MT is the same on me as well. For people where they're different, I now think MT is a better marker because MT means the same thing for everyone. Plus MT has a specific look while FTL varies.


Edit: also knee to calf is literally 2-3 inches. By the time you've grown to knee, six months to the next milestone is kind of … nothing.

That makes sense. But on me knee to calf is a lot more than 3".


Same with ankle to floor, although by then those extra few months really are nothing

Ankle To Floor seemed necessary because floor is the point where wearing it down gets it dirty and gets it stepped on, thus ankle (an oft-mentioned marker) is the last "safe" length. But again, I'm not a true long-hair, so maybe I have misconceptions. Frinstance, I'm learning that y'all almost never wear your hair own anyway.


My gosh, if we would only have to create threads because they are "needed". No, I don't even know where the heck the idea suddenly busted out from but man, I almost feel offended. I would be even more so if I were at greater lengths and did not have a "home" to go to. :(

I truly have no idea what your objections are. Did you read through my initial post? What I've been proposing is to get a "home" for every length.

[lapushka]

This is all definitely possible, and not having made that journey myself I can't directly address it. I just know for sure that equivalent threads are needed along the journey I have made. But maybe the true long-hairs should debate the true long-hair threads. I'm a mere WLer, and I've heard many times that things change quite a bit after HL or so.




Agreed. And FTL/MT is the same on me as well. For people where they're different, I now think MT is a better marker because MT means the same thing for everyone. Plus MT has a specific look while FTL varies.



That makes sense. But on me knee to calf is a lot more than 3".



Ankle To Floor seemed necessary because floor is the point where wearing it down gets it dirty and gets it stepped on, thus ankle (an oft-mentioned marker) is the last "safe" length. But again, I'm not a true long-hair, so maybe I have misconceptions. Frinstance, I'm learning that y'all almost never wear your hair own anyway.



I truly have no idea what your objections are. Did you read through my initial post? What I've been proposing is to get a "home" for every length.

Yes but usually the idea is to work towards a certain goal, which is exactly why there are threads covering a span of lengths, right?

[Vara La Fey]

Yes but usually the idea is to work towards a certain goal, which is exactly why there are threads covering a span of lengths, right?

Yes. But I still have no idea what your objections are.

[foreveryours]

I disagree that new threads are needed here. All of my growing was in the existing threads, and honestly especially the knee and beyond there are not enough growers to sustain separate threads, AND seeing others at longer lengths in those threads while you're still actively growing is such needed motivation, precisely because the milestones are so far apart. The haircare and styles don't all uniformly change at those milestones in between, it's only really classic-FTL where a lot of people find they have to change how they handle or style their hair. Every other length beyond that, people hit their tipping points at different lengths and having people active in the thread who've already trodden that path and can give insight is really helpful.

You'll have to prise the Knee-length and beyond thread out of my cold, dead hands :patrol::p

Been there, done that, very true That's how I found here :p

[giraff]

My gosh, if we would only have to create threads because they are "needed". No, I don't even know where the heck the idea suddenly busted out from but man, I almost feel offended. I would be even more so if I were at greater lengths and did not have a "home" to go to. :(

lapushka, I don't think anyone wants to offend people or make them feel estranged. I am truly sorry if we upset you! What happened was that both Vara La Fey and myself were around waist/hip length and were confused with which thread we were supposed to join. There's Waist to Hip Length, Hip to Tailbone Length and Waist to Tailbone Length. They probably came around quite organically, and that's charming, but we would love to have people at the same length in the same group. Not three separate ones.. Hope I made it more clear? :)

[momof3mary]

The buzz to ear sounds good if you're measuring from the hairs on top of your head and not the ones right by the ear, or at least when most of the layers cover them.

[Chromis]

I think the Knee length and Beyond thread gets long just because more people look at it for inspiration and any time one of us posts any pictures, it feels like there a zillion comments. I don't think there are enough of us based on the hair length polls to want to split us up. Plus as you reach knee and beyond, more and more of us are at terminal anyhow (or false terminal occasionally!)

[MusicalSpoons]

That makes sense. But on me knee to calf is a lot more than 3".

Ankle To Floor seemed necessary because floor is the point where wearing it down gets it dirty and gets it stepped on, thus ankle (an oft-mentioned marker) is the last "safe" length. But again, I'm not a true long-hair, so maybe I have misconceptions. Frinstance, I'm learning that y'all almost never wear your hair own anyway.


Not really - if you wear your hair down at maybe knee and sit down, it's probably already going to get dirty and probably stepped on, by yourself or someone else. By mid-calf that would definitely happen. Even at ankle, if you tilt your head or hunch over for any reason your hair's going on the (potentially dirty) floor and risking getting stepped on.

Fair enough that knee to calf is more than a few months for some; to mid-calf it is more than a few months for everyone. Exactly how long knee to calf takes really depends on when someone decides to call calf length - it's a fairly nebulous milestone really which also makes attempting to split more complicated than some of the other lengths.

If others who've grown these lengths feel a split *is* needed then their opinion is equally valid and I won't object. And just to be clear, I'm not qualified to comment about the shorter lengths so I have absolutely no problem with rejigging those threads as necessary :)

[lapis_lazuli]

I disagree that new threads are needed here. All of my growing was in the existing threads, and honestly especially the knee and beyond there are not enough growers to sustain separate threads, AND seeing others at longer lengths in those threads while you're still actively growing is such needed motivation, precisely because the milestones are so far apart. The haircare and styles don't all uniformly change at those milestones in between, it's only really classic-FTL where a lot of people find they have to change how they handle or style their hair. Every other length beyond that, people hit their tipping points at different lengths and having people active in the thread who've already trodden that path and can give insight is really helpful.

You'll have to prise the Knee-length and beyond thread out of my cold, dead hands :patrol::p

Mine too!!

I'm with Spoons on all points. I like the Knee and beyond thread because it includes so many lengths that can all be quite similar in terms of haircare. There's already so few people posting there as is, I don't want to graduate to even more inactive threads. There may be differences from knee to floor, but the similarities greatly outweigh them. I can't speak on the other threads, but please keep this one!

[neko_kawaii]

Perhaps put a link to this discussion in the existing threads asking for input.

[Bat]

It is a bit of a mess, isn’t it!

I don’t have time to do the figuring out, but keep discussing and make detailed specific suggestions and I can merge, rename, and update the index as needed once folks are happy with their ideas.

One suggestion, if new separate threads are more useful than merging, we can lock the older thread(s) and put links to the new both as a new post and as an ETA in the old so when folks who had previously participated in those threads turn up they can find the redirects to the active threads.

I think that's a great idea so people can find the older topics still

[Bat]

I think the Knee length and Beyond thread gets long just because more people look at it for inspiration and any time one of us posts any pictures, it feels like there a zillion comments. I don't think there are enough of us based on the hair length polls to want to split us up. Plus as you reach knee and beyond, more and more of us are at terminal anyhow (or false terminal occasionally!)

Then maybe remove the floor and beyond on or combine with knee and beyond in that case for having both beyond threads seem redundant


----
I feel the decision here will be split into active growers to people who have already been there done that

[Vara La Fey]

If others who've grown these lengths feel a split *is* needed then their opinion is equally valid and I won't object. And just to be clear, I'm not qualified to comment about the shorter lengths so I have absolutely no problem with rejigging those threads as necessary :)

So far the true long-hairs are universally against changing the lower body threads. No, that system would never fly in the shorter lengths, but by all accounts it's a different world at Classic and longer.

[Vara La Fey]

Perhaps put a link to this discussion in the existing threads asking for input.

Good idea. Is it possible to post a link to an individual post within a thread? I want to post an updated feedback-inclusive version of my original post (which will also include Bat's poll), and I'd direct people to this instead of the original. The people would be those in threads which likely will be split and/or merged. And maybe people who would suddenly find a new graduation thread in front of them....?

[Bat]

Good idea. Is it possible to post a link to an individual post within a thread? I want to post an updated feedback-inclusive version of my original post (which will also include Bat's poll), and I'd direct people to this instead of the original. The people would be those in threads which likely will be split and/or merged. And maybe people who would suddenly find a new graduation thread in front of them....?

On desktop view each post has a number on the top right click it and it will lead to the exact post then you can copy the address bar

[rosenester]

Sorry, I don't understand. Here is a length chart (https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=47703&d=1664088434). It really makes it easier to visualize the length threads and proposed changes.

Did you post your WL hair photos into the Hip To Tailbone thread? They'd be out of place there with or without a name change.

I personally don't propose changing the Waist To Hip thread anyway - it's one of the few which is already perfectly categorized.

Hip To Tailbone skips BCL, which might not be a big deal because those milestones are close together, but a Hip To BCL thread already exists (50 pages) and just wasn't mentioned in the Resources List. I see no point in skipping it when it's needed and is already right there.

Are you saying we should merge Waist To Hip and Hip To Tailbone threads? That's what we already have with the Waist To Tailbone thread, and it skips both Hip and BCL and is a looong growth time between markers.

Sorry if I was confusing, mobile is difficult to edit & I pressed post before rereading.

I post in the waist-tailbone, but don’t feel like I belong and wished the waist-hip was more active to begin with (and it would have been without the overlap of length threads). I am between WL and HL but choosing HL as final goal and didn’t want to post in a inactive thread.

I would rather it be as follows:
Waist-hip
Waist-tailbone=> Hip-tailbone

Cons to renaming the waist-tailbone thread ‘hip-taibone’:
irrelevant posts from waist lengthed hairies. :wink:
lost archived content if we start a new thread for this length (perhaps??)

I am against a thread that acknowledges ‘buttcrack length’ even though I very well may make that my final length, it makes me a little uncomfortable :laugh: and HL & BCL are only 1” apart on my body, I know we’re all differently shaped…

I LOVE your length chart, it’s amazing BTW.
:blossom:I hope I make more sense my screen is so small and I getting a headache now :brains:

[Bat]

Sorry if I was confusing, mobile is difficult to edit & I pressed post before rereading.

I post in the waist-tailbone, but don’t feel like I belong and wished the waist-hip was more active to begin with (and it would have been without the overlap of length threads). I am between WL and HL but choosing HL as final goal and didn’t want to post in a inactive thread.

I would rather it be as follows:
Waist-hip
Waist-tailbone=> Hip-tailbone

Cons to renaming the waist-tailbone thread ‘hip-taibone’:
irrelevant posts from waist lengthed hairies. :wink:
lost archived content if we start a new thread for this length (perhaps??)

I am against a thread that acknowledges ‘buttcrack length’ even though I very well may make that my final length, it makes me a little uncomfortable :laugh: and HL & BCL are only 1” apart on my body, I know we’re all differently shaped…

I LOVE your length chart, it’s amazing BTW.
:blossom:I hope I make more sense my screen is so small and I getting a headache now :brains:

I don't really like Buttcrack either that's why I said butt instead

[Dark40]

Thank you for taking the time for this Vara La Fey!

It’s tough to determine which markers are 3in apart when that varies so widely from person to person.
On my body for example, I’d split the Waist to Classic into WL to BCL and BCL to Classic. Also FTL=MTL on me.
I do like the list Bat suggested. And I do think Buzz to Ear and Ear to Chin is an important split, because starting from scratch can be the toughest, so getting to graduate a thread soon-ish can be very encouraging I imagine.

I totally agree with you. Because, from FTL=MTL are actually the same thing. Or, in the same spot on the body.

[baanoo]

What an interesting discussion! I cannot speak to how the shorter-hairs feel but when it comes to the mid-lengths I like having the following threads:

>BSB-Waist
- what is mid-back anyway? Got to have something in the middle and getting to waist can feel like such a big deal! Full disclosure: I was already at waist when I got here so I don’t think I ever posted there (or maybe just a little at the beginning).
> Waist to TBL
- such a great transition and set of milestones in a group, enough folks to stay active and also feel good about the changes in styling/care that often happen at those lengths - I was in that thread for a few years and loved it.
> TBL to Classic
- no milestones in between butttttttt the butt is a long journey and “graduation” really marks Longhair™ stratus in a lot of ways.

In my opinion, a length thread ideally encompasses either a few milestones or a longer distance so you’re not bouncing around and instead have time to get invested in a slightly deeper way in the journeys of your fellow travelers.

[Bat]

What an interesting discussion! I cannot speak to how the shorter-hairs feel but when it comes to the mid-lengths I like having the following threads:

>BSB-Waist
- what is mid-back anyway? Got to have something in the middle and getting to waist can feel like such a big deal! Full disclosure: I was already at waist when I got here so I don’t think I ever posted there (or maybe just a little at the beginning).
> Waist to TBL
- such a great transition and set of milestones in a group, enough folks to stay active and also feel good about the changes in styling/care that often happen at those lengths - I was in that thread for a few years and loved it.
> TBL to Classic
- no milestones in between butttttttt the butt is a long journey and “graduation” really marks Longhair™ stratus in a lot of ways.

In my opinion, a length thread ideally encompasses either a few milestones or a longer distance so you’re not bouncing around and instead have time to get invested in a slightly deeper way in the journeys of your fellow travelers.

for me i like graduating a thread sooner as it fools me into thinking i'm making progress lol

[Vara La Fey]

What an interesting discussion! I cannot speak to how the shorter-hairs feel but when it comes to the mid-lengths I like having the following threads:
>BSB-Waist
- what is mid-back anyway? Got to have something in the middle and getting to waist can feel like such a big deal! Full disclosure: I was already at waist when I got here so I don’t think I ever posted there (or maybe just a little at the beginning).
> Waist to TBL
- such a great transition and set of milestones in a group, enough folks to stay active and also feel good about the changes in styling/care that often happen at those lengths - I was in that thread for a few years and loved it.
> TBL to Classic
- no milestones in between butttttttt the butt is a long journey and “graduation” really marks Longhair™ stratus in a lot of ways.
In my opinion, a length thread ideally encompasses either a few milestones or a longer distance so you’re not bouncing around and instead have time to get invested in a slightly deeper way in the journeys of your fellow travelers.

These threads are for growth support in specific ranges, they are definable progress markers, and they are fun to graduate as progress is made. Thus no single one should cover too much ground.

Plus a poster can visit threads already graduated from, and the entire rest of LHC exists to get invested in things not specific to that single poster's length range anyway.

I definitely think the Length Threads should stay on focus. That's literally their job: each one focuses on a defined length range.

[Vara La Fey]

On desktop view each post has a number on the top right click it and it will lead to the exact post then you can copy the address bar

Got it. Thanks!

[Ada-banana]

I agree with putting all the possible milestones in the threads.

Also I think that the threads should be always on top (somehow pinned on top) in sequence, so it's easily accessible.

[Ylva]

I'm inclined to feel that there should actually be fewer threads. If we talk about the waist to tailbone thread for example, that's roughly a 2 years' journey on the average person, more or less, and I think that at that length, that's a good timeframe.

When it comes to classic to knee and onwards, I wouldn't change anything about them. There are so few growers at those lengths that splitting those up would result in several very quiet threads, as well as the individual physique-dependent differences already mentioned. Milestone-specific issues such as "how to handle hair beyond FTL" can well be addressed in the appropriate thread without creating any confusion or mess.

However, when it comes to shorter-length threads, we have more activity in those, so I can understand the point on wanting to graduate sooner. Still, I would not split the "head section" into more than maybe two different threads, something like "buzz to ear" and "ear to chin" or something along those lines.

[lapushka]

Would it then not be a matter of making the titles more clear, before doing something rash and creating additional threads/splitting threads up. Often, a title that is more clear can do a world of good!

[Bat]

I'm inclined to feel that there should actually be fewer threads. If we talk about the waist to tailbone thread for example, that's roughly a 2 years' journey on the average person, more or less, and I think that at that length, that's a good timeframe.

When it comes to classic to knee and onwards, I wouldn't change anything about them. There are so few growers at those lengths that splitting those up would result in several very quiet threads, as well as the individual physique-dependent differences already mentioned. Milestone-specific issues such as "how to handle hair beyond FTL" can well be addressed in the appropriate thread without creating any confusion or mess.

However, when it comes to shorter-length threads, we have more activity in those, so I can understand the point on wanting to graduate sooner. Still, I would not split the "head section" into more than maybe two different threads, something like "buzz to ear" and "ear to chin" or something along those lines.

I'd be ok with that get rid of floor and beyond and keep the knee and beyond threads and combine 2 of the double ups together

[Bat]

I agree with putting all the possible milestones in the threads.

Also I think that the threads should be always on top (somehow pinned on top) in sequence, so it's easily accessible.

I like that too but that could clutter up the first page

[ArtOfNoot]

I think any severe restructuring would be more effort than it's worth. I agree that the WL to TBL needs to GO. It has more traffic than WL to HL so I naturally interact with it more, but it makes little sense when it overlaps WL to TBL.

Like many others have already said, the most effective thing would be to balance milestone consistency with thread traffic while eliminating redundancy. The knee and beyond people are fewer in number and are clearly patient enough to sit in a thread for years. On the other side, us shorter lengths are the bulk of LHC users and are hungry for milestones :yumm:

I like Lapushkas suggestion of clearly naming the threads rather than hacking them up ( except the WL to TBL :patrol: )

Here is my proposed line up:

Buzz to Ear (probably a good idea for a new thread)
Ear to Chin (leave as is - it's a baby thread but I'm sure Bat can liven it up :) )
Chin to CBL~SL (rename the Chin to Shoulder Length (https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=96954) thread- I said "CBL~SL" because I consider collarbone and shoulder to be the two extreme sides of the same milestone)
SL to APL (leave as is - it's a sensible distance for a thread and it has so much traffic )
ALP to BSL/MBL (leave as is, but maybe rename to say "BSL/MBL" for clarity)
BSL/MBL to WL - The Mid-Back Abyss (rename MBL to Waist (https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=5306) for clarity. I could have sworn there was a large thread named MidBack Abyss but can't find it - maybe I imagined it :shrug: )
WL to HL (leave it as is)
HL to CL (rename the Waist to Tailbone Length (https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=5483) thread for this one because it is the most trafficked. And then combine all the threads that fall within this one)
CL to FTL/Mid-Thigh (How do we not already have one of these? Also, for simplicity I think we should combine FTL and Mid-Thigh into one milestone)
FTL/Mid-Thigh to Knee (Only if the people growing here would appreciate a midpoint here- rename the Classic to Knee (https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=34987) thread so it is absorbed)
Knee and beyond (leave as it - You would also have to pry this thread out of my cold, dead hands :p)
Floor length and beyond (leave as is - is has less traffic but it is nice to have a separation from knee+ because, to most people, floor+ is inhuman and I think we should acknowledge how special it is that they have run out of body parts to measure with. Also I love having all the rapunzel pictures in one thread)


And then I propose we archive all other threads that overlap with these groups (except terminal because it is its own ecosystem). Rather than hacking and dicing.

Addendum: I realize that TBL to CL is a bit unnecessary, especially since the my goal was to downsize (I am probably biased because CL is my goal length haha). So I just now collapsed TBL to CL into the HL to BCL~TBL thread :)

[ArtOfNoot]

I like that too but that could clutter up the first page

Not if it is placed in a folder at the top - like the user permissions and FAQ

[mochichichi]

I'm inclined to feel that there should actually be fewer threads. If we talk about the waist to tailbone thread for example, that's roughly a 2 years' journey on the average person, more or less, and I think that at that length, that's a good timeframe.

When it comes to classic to knee and onwards, I wouldn't change anything about them. There are so few growers at those lengths that splitting those up would result in several very quiet threads, as well as the individual physique-dependent differences already mentioned. Milestone-specific issues such as "how to handle hair beyond FTL" can well be addressed in the appropriate thread without creating any confusion or mess.

However, when it comes to shorter-length threads, we have more activity in those, so I can understand the point on wanting to graduate sooner. Still, I would not split the "head section" into more than maybe two different threads, something like "buzz to ear" and "ear to chin" or something along those lines.

I agree with Ylva. The threads are nice for commiserating and troubleshooting things that come up in our hair journeys like awkward lengths, and common areas where people have to make adjustments to their routines. It's entirely unnecessary and excessive to have threads for every single marker. We all celebrate each other's milestones in the milestone thread, so graduating threads all the time isn't super necessary to me. Why not celebrate with the people you're growing with in the thread rather than leaving the thread, I suppose.

I honestly think waist->hip should be merged into the waist->TBL length thread and just leave everything else as is.

I don't know about TBL->CL, I understand the idea that hitting classic is a big milestone, but I found TBL->CL to already be fairly quiet, and it wouldn't be bad for the traffic if it was combined with something else.

[neko_kawaii]

Not if it is placed in a folder at the top - like the user permissions and FAQ

Yes, I'm thinking a sub-forum would be the best way of keeping these threads together and easy to find. Inside Mane Forum would seem the appropriate place as they are all in that forum now as I think someone said.

[neko_kawaii]

Perhaps in the discussion of how to structure the milestone increments, take into account the stats from the Goal Length polls (https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=155736). The latest poll shows the greatest number of members have goals of Classic or shorter.

I get both the arguments for the motivation of moving from milestone to milestone thread and that of sticking around in one thread for long enough to get to know the others in that thread.

Somewhere there is a Mini Milestone Thread (Not sure it's exact title) where folks were posting their own made up milestones. That could be an option for small milestone discussion should the majority decide on larger milestone increments.

[Bat]

Reposting this link for people too shy to make a visible comment https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=156026&styleid=5

[Vara La Fey]

I'm inclined to feel that there should actually be fewer threads. If we talk about the waist to tailbone thread for example, that's roughly a 2 years' journey on the average person, more or less, and I think that at that length, that's a good timeframe.
When it comes to classic to knee and onwards, I wouldn't change anything about them.

We need more threads, rather than less, in the shorter and medium lengths. Growing or re-growing is a big adventure for us in those lengths, and there's much support needed and given among first-timers. And 2 years is discouraging to people who have never even been at WL before. I and a lot of us love being able to chart our progress semi regularly.

At the longer Classic+ lengths, it seems unanimous to leave them alone, so I will. The points raised by the true longhairs make a lot of sense regarding those threads.


Would it then not be a matter of making the titles more clear, before doing something rash and creating additional threads/splitting threads up.

The titles are fine in the short-medium length threads. The problem is the markers the threads are based on.


I agree that the WL to TBL needs to GO. It has more traffic than WL to HL so I naturally interact with it more, but it makes little sense when it overlaps WL to TBL.

WL To TBL def must go due to overlap and to way too much distance between markers for medium-haired people like me. Waist To Hip is a very commonly discussed range and Hip is a very common goal anyway. We def should keep our WL To HL thread. It is badly needed, even though some of us have a short distance between the two - but others like me do not.


Buzz to Ear (probably a good idea for a new thread)
Ear to Chin (leave as is - it's a baby thread but I'm sure Bat can liven it up :) )
Chin to CBL~SL (Rename the Chin to Shoulder Length (https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=96954) thread- I said "CBL~SL" because I consider collarbone and shoulder to be the two extreme sides of the same milestone)
SL to APL (Leave as is - it's a sensible distance for a thread and it has so much traffic )
ALP to BSL/MBL (leave as is, but maybe rename to say "BSL/MBL" for clarity)
BSL/MBL to WL - The Mid-Back Abyss (rename MBL to Waist (https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=5306) for clarity. I could have sworn there was a large thread named MidBack Abyss but can't find it - maybe I imagined it :shrug: )
WL to HL (leave it as is)
HL to BCL~TBL (rename the Waist to Tailbone Length (https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=5483) thread for this one. This would preserve the thread which has so much traffic, but get rid of the overlap with WL to HL. It may confuse some folks at first, but in the long run I think LHC will benefit from it)
TBL to CL (leave as is - it is a marked transition period into fantasy length and also the prospect of sitting on your hair)

Ear To Chin - we don't have one of those on the Resources List. If there is one buried somewhere in Mane, we should add it to the list, else create it.
Chin To SL/CBL - we don't have exactly this, but we do have Chin To SL which I think is perfect. Then we have SL to APL, which I guess is ok. I'm not sure CBL really needs to be its own marker at all.
"Midback Abyss", if it exists, would be great to just move completely into MBL - Waist.
Yes, we could rename W To TBL as "H To TBL", but there are prolly a lot of WL posts in there which would no longer make sense with the new title. I just don't know how to handle that. That'd be up to the mods.


I agree with Ylva. It's entirely unnecessary and excessive to have threads for every single marker. We all celebrate each other's milestones in the milestone thread, so graduating threads all the time isn't super necessary to me. Why not celebrate with the people you're growing with in the thread rather than leaving the thread, I suppose.
I honestly think waist->hip should be merged into the waist->TBL length thread and just leave everything else as is.
I don't know about TBL->CL, I understand the idea that hitting classic is a big milestone, but I found TBL->CL to already be fairly quiet, and it wouldn't be bad for the traffic if it was combined with something else.

A thread for every marker would have been ideal if there'd been an actual start to these threads as a system, but there wasn't, so after a couple days of this I agree that not every marker needs representation. But the vast majority do at the short-medium lengths.

I didn't know there was a Milestone thread. As with Terminal, that should be on the Length Specific Threads List in the Resources doc.

Graduating threads is still important to most of us, judging from comments. And afaik we don't have to leave threads we've graduated from, we can always drop by and visit. AND "the people you're growing with in the thread" should be graduating more or less with you when you graduate. Hopefully, anyway. It's not like you'll never see them again during visits, or in the next Length thread, or in the other eleventy grillion LHC threads.

These length threads are milestone/progress markers and support groups in their respective length ranges. As such they are not popularity contests, but rather they exist only for those who benefit from them at the time. Thus activity shouldn't ever dictate their existence. If popularity was the most important thing, there's only be one length thread, called "Grow" or something. Clearly we don't seem to want that. We need subdivisions.


Perhaps in the discussion of how to structure the milestone increments, take into account the stats from the Goal Length polls (https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=155736). The latest poll shows the greatest number of members have goals of Classic or shorter.

Seems to me that indicates a demand for more marker threads in those length ranges. Though I still think that after Ear To Chin, a 3"/6mo marker gap should be the minimum to build a length thread on. I.e., we prolly don't need a CBL thread or a BCL thread, as I'd think they're usually less than 3" away from other markers for most people.

[mochichichi]

I think I had a brain blip about the mini milestones thread, not a regular milestones thread.

[Vara La Fey]

UPDATING my proposal from the start of this thread. I've tried to factor in, one way or another, everything y'all have said since I started this mess. There are a lot fewer proposed changes now than last time.

Important links:

Updated Milestone Thread poll (https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=156032)
Bat's original poll "Should the milestone threads be updated, changed etc" (https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=156026)
Length Chart so we can visualize all this (https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=47703&d=1664088434)
List of "Length-specific Threads" in the Index To Important Threads and Resources (https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/announcement.php?f=9&a=11)

That list of "Length-specific Threads" is currently this:

All Lengths Post Here
Buzz to Chin Length
Chin to Shoulder Length
Shoulder to APL Length
APL to MBL Length
MBL to Waist Length
Waist to Hip Length
Hip to Tailbone Length
Waist to Tailbone Length
Tailbone to Classic Length
Classic to Knee Length
Knee Length and Beyond!
Floor Length and Beyond!
Non-Growth Oriented Thread for Shorter Lengths

^ I'm no longer going to address the Classic+ lengths, as that's a whole different hair world than what I'm used to, and those LHCers seem unanimously against changing those threads and their arguments make sense in that world, but not in the world of short-medium lengths. Unlike a politician, I'm going to stop proposing changes to things I know very little about! So below is the same list as above, with changes I am still willing to propose.

Also I think that, other than the earliest/shortest Buzz/Ear type markers, we can adopt a 3"/6mo rule for deciding whether a marker needs its own thread in the short-medium Threads. This means that CBL is too close to both SL and APL to have its own thread, BCL is too close to HL and to TBL to have its own thread (but it already does), and in Longhair World FTL would be way too close to MT, but that's their call.

All Lengths Post Here

Buzz to Chin Length
1466 pgs. Split because it skips Ear and because early growers need short milestones.
Maybe split into the two below:

Buzz To Ear
Create this.

Ear To Chin (https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=33635)
1 pg. Exists, should add to Threads List in Resources doc (link is above)

Chin to Shoulder Length
Shoulder to APL Length
APL to MBL Length
MBL to Waist Length
Waist to Hip Length

Hip To Buttcrack Length (https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=125504)
50 pgs. Exists and thus could be added to Threads List.
But that implies a BCL - TBL thread would then be needed due to completeness.
And that implies our current HL - TBL would need to be split due to overlap.
I don't think that's worthwhile just to add a tiny barely-used thread.
So maybe Hip To Buttcrack should be ignored entirely.

Hip to Tailbone Length

Waist to Tailbone Length
1323 pgs. Skips Hip which is extremely important marker.
Skips BCL too, if that matters.
Is way too much distance and time for a medium-hair length thread.
Is horribly redundant overlap with W To H.
Don't care if it's popular; these are support threads and progress markers.
Thus they aren't popularity contests; they're for those who need them at the time.
PLEASE part this out into the proper homes for its posts and then archive/kill it.

Tailbone to Classic Length

[ Classic through Floor is another world to be decided on by those who live there. ]

TERMINAL (https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=90499)
147 pgs. Exists, is soooo important, is a goal, is a huge support topic, etc.
This should totally be on the Length-specific Threads list.
IIRC there are entire relevant threads in Mane which could be dumped into this one.

The Mini-Milestone Thread (https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=41971)
755 pgs. Seems well worth adding to the Length-specific Threads list.

Non-Growth Oriented Thread for Shorter Lengths

<end>

[MusicalSpoons]

Floor+ thread needs to stay, it's super special to be able to "graduate" to that from the knee and beyond thread. Just being able to post there as an 'official' member is an incredible milestone, even if most of the activity is still on the knee and beyond thread :)



Don't care if it's popular; these are support threads and progress markers.
Thus they aren't popularity contests; they're for those who need them at the time.
PLEASE part this out into the proper homes for its posts and then archive/kill it.

Can I be honest? This is what worries me a little - it's absolutely fine to feel that way about progress in growing, and it definitely makes sense to create new threads for the lengths covered. But some of these threads are also home to sections of the community; when people finish growing they often tend to hang out on whichever length thread(s) feels like home - often the one where they met their final goal. And the majority of goal lengths on this forum are in the waist-tailbone area, according to the annual polls.

My unqualified, neutral observation re: waist-TBL: its popularity and longevity means killing it would be a massive (potentially very unpopular) decision because of the community aspect. It seems the split threads are desired, but perhaps a compromise would be to leave the well-established thread up for those who want it. By all means direct people to the new ones, maybe even take the WL-TBL thread off the length threads list if people feel that strongly, but unless you get a unanimous vote to close it, don't risk upsetting people just for the sake of imposing a more rigid structure. And if there is not an ongoing need for the original massive thread, it will naturally fizzle out over time.

[I've not been part of that thread so I may have it all wrong, just seeing how massive it was and knowing some of the personalities of long-term members, I felt compelled to throw some caution into the mix.]

Edit: or just rename it to hip-tbl, with a nod to 'formerly waist-tbl' so people aren't confused, then any established pre-hip members get to decide if they want to stay or if they want to migrate to the waist-hip thread, or be a member of both (no harm in that).

[Bat]

Instead of making the new thread for buzz to Ear, just rename the buzz to chin to Buzz to Ear and keep that baby thread as Ear to Chin and add to the Length sub forum thingo
Just to save on making another thread

[Vara La Fey]

Floor+ thread needs to stay, it's super special to be able to "graduate" to that from the knee and beyond thread. Just being able to post there as an 'official' member is an incredible milestone, even if most of the activity is still on the knee and beyond thread :)
Can I be honest? This is what worries me a little - it's absolutely fine to feel that way about progress in growing, and it definitely makes sense to create new threads for the lengths covered. But some of these threads are also home to sections of the community; when people finish growing they often tend to hang out on whichever length thread(s) feels like home - often the one where they met their final goal. And the majority of goal lengths on this forum are in the waist-tailbone area, according to the annual polls.
My unqualified, neutral observation re: waist-TBL: its popularity and longevity means killing it would be a massive (potentially very unpopular) decision because of the community aspect. It seems the split threads are desired, but perhaps a compromise would be to leave the well-established thread up for those who want it. By all means direct people to the new ones, maybe even take the WL-TBL thread off the length threads list if people feel that strongly, but unless you get a unanimous vote to close it, don't risk upsetting people just for the sake of imposing a more rigid structure. And if there is not an ongoing need for the original massive thread, it will naturally fizzle out over time.
[I've not been part of that thread so I may have it all wrong, just seeing how massive it was and knowing some of the personalities of long-term members, I felt compelled to throw some caution into the mix.]
Edit: or just rename it to hip-tbl, with a nod to 'formerly waist-tbl' so people aren't confused, then any established pre-hip members get to decide if they want to stay or if they want to migrate to the waist-hip thread, or be a member of both (no harm in that).

Don't worry, I'm totally shutting up about changing the Classic+ length threads. The super-long-hairs have convinced me it's a different world there in a lot of ways.

I recently joined both W2H and W2TBL, and being halfway to H right now I'm solidly in the Waist To.... demographic. I was confused about those threads, and so are a lot of us in this range. And I'll have to post questions or observations twice, which as someone else said, seems like spamming. I don't think the mods would split W2TBL without a good and user-approved plan for how to redirect people, how to handle newer and older posts, and such. Obviously it'd be a delicate operation.

We already have a H2TBL. I suppose the mods could just dump all of W2TBL into it and then append "formerly" to the name. Or vice versa: dump H2TBL into W2TBL and rename that, since this means moving/archiving fewer posts.

In short: we need our Hip marker threads, and we don't need overlap. Waist To overlap is the really big issue, which people are often raising. I just decided in my own twisted little way that "while we're at it, we mize well...."

[Vara La Fey]

Instead of making the new thread for buzz to Ear, just rename the buzz to chin to Buzz to Ear and keep that baby thread as Ear to Chin and add to the Length sub forum thingo
Just to save on making another thread

That's prolly a good idea. Are there a lot of Ear To Chin posts currently in the Buzz To Chin thread which would be out of place if renamed as you suggest?

I hope not, cause it'd be a quick elegant solution to that part of the body markers.

BTW, your poll itself is a bit outdated now because it doesn't separate the Waist To.... overlap issue from all the other thingies we're talking about. And the Rapunzels have convinced me that Classic+ is a different world, and they'll never vote to change it (and prolly they're right about that), so I'd hate for people to vote against fixing the Waist To.... issue simply because they don't want to change the Classic+ threads.

[Bat]

That's prolly a good idea. Are there a lot of Ear To Chin posts currently in the Buzz To Chin thread which would be out of place if renamed as you suggest?

I hope not, cause it'd be a quick elegant solution to that part of the body markers.

BTW, your poll itself is a bit outdated now because it doesn't separate the Waist To.... overlap issue from all the other thingies we're talking about. And the Rapunzels have convinced me that Classic+ is a different world, and they'll never vote to change it (and prolly they're right about that), so I'd hate for people to vote against fixing the Waist To.... issue simply because they don't want to change the Classic+ threads.

Mine was pretty basic your welcome to do a new thread with a better poll

[MusicalSpoons]

Don't worry, I'm totally shutting up about changing the Classic+ length threads. The super-long-hairs have convinced me it's a different world there in a lot of ways.

I recently joined both W2H and W2TBL, and being halfway to H right now I'm solidly in the Waist To.... demographic. I was confused about those threads, and so are a lot of us in this range. And I'll have to post questions or observations twice, which as someone else said, seems like spamming. I don't think the mods would split W2TBL without a good and user-approved plan for how to redirect people, how to handle newer and older posts, and such. Obviously it'd be a delicate operation.

We already have a H2TBL. I suppose the mods could just dump all of W2TBL into it and then append "formerly" to the name. Or vice versa: dump H2TBL into W2TBL and rename that, since this means moving/archiving fewer posts.

In short: we need our Hip marker threads, and we don't need overlap. Waist To overlap is the really big issue, which people are often raising. I just decided in my own twisted little way that "while we're at it, we mize well...."

Ah cool, that's all very reassuring :thumbsup:

[I only mentioned the floor+ thread because someone else had said to scrap it, but thankfully one lone voice won't make that happen!]

[Chromis]

There's really nothing stopping people from making more threads! We merge really obvious duplicate threads mainly, but other than that, mostly things are merged by request.

[Vara La Fey]

Mine was pretty basic your welcome to do a new thread with a better poll

I wasn't criticizing; I didn't know any better at the time either.

Never written poll questions before, but I'm working on it....

[Joliebaby]

I would have rather there been a Waist -Hip and a Hip-Tailbone thread myself, but I have posted photos with my WL hair in the latter along with many others and it would be out of the place if the name is changed. Since the waist-hip thread is very quiet I don’t post there even though I would rather be able to graduate another length thread eventually. :laugh: merging the two would probably be easier than attempting the split the waist-tailbone thread, I assume!

Yes, I also think that it would have been good to have two separate threads for Waist to hip and Hip to Tailbone as it is such a long stretch. I post in the Waist to Tailbone, like most other people do who have reached waist, and I think it would be really difficult to separate them now, so merging would be a better option, better than having these two overlapping threads. Other than that I don't have many opinions.. But creating more threads now would cause this same problem with overlapping, and confusion.

[cookies]

I have another idea that’s a bit out there so feel free to ignore :lol:
What I’m noticing is that motivation also works differently for everyone and some of us prefer to graduate early and often, and some of us prefer to hang out in threads longer to visualize further lengths.

So an option could be to just name them by the destination: Growing to Chin, Growing to Waist, Growing to Classic etc.
That way if you know your end goal is Classic, but you’re still on your way to APL, you could hang out in both Growing to APL for length specific support and early graduation, and Growing to Classic for long term companionship and motivation.

I like the idea of a subforum, it would keep things neat and the main “mane” can remain for everyone, whether they’re growing or ...manetaining :D

[Vara La Fey]

Ah cool, that's all very reassuring :thumbsup:


That person was prolly me from before the Rapunzels explained why things are so different from Classic length onward. I've never even been close to that, so I simply didn't know.


But creating more threads now would cause this same problem with overlapping, and confusion.

Totally. That's one big reason why I didn't just go ahead and make those new threads.


So an option could be to just name them by the destination: Growing to Chin, Growing to Waist, Growing to Classic etc.
That way if you know your end goal is Classic, but you’re still on your way to APL, you could hang out in both Growing to APL for length specific support and early graduation, and Growing to Classic for long term companionship and motivation.
...[I]manetaining :D

Interesting idea. It would simplify including all the markers because you could just create a new marker thread without worrying about overlap. "Growing To An Inch Above My Navel" wouldn't create an overlap conflict.

But you wouldn't get that peer-support of people in a specifically-bounded range because every thread from prolly SL and beyond would have.... "noise".... from people who weren't there yet and maybe couldn't relate. I think being able to relate is at the core of peer support, and those who can inter-relate shouldn't get lost in larger crowds comprised of anyone and everyone. Plus there's no sense of earning your place. I recently earned my place in the "Waist To...." threads, and that felt pretty good, other than the overlap confusion. I personally don't let myself visit "up the line" by posting in threads like HL to TBL. (Tho I once mistakenly posted up the line because I forgot where I was.)

And as to mentors helping the shorter-haired people in their quest, I'm pretty sure everyone is still allowed to visit Length Threads they've graduated from.

Manetaining. LOL.

[Vara La Fey]

I made an updated version of Bat's "Milestone Threads" poll to account for more specificity after we've all bounced around this thread for a day. Here it is (https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=156032).

[Bat]

Ignore post sorry

[GordonMurphella]

Not that anyone asked me, and not that I've posted in any of these threads, but are we going to have to show ID to get into one of these? I mean, and pardon me, it seems like splitting hairs.

Oh I crack myself up sometimes.

But I do agree that perhaps they should be all together somewhere that they can be easily passed over by the unwashed masses of us who don't post them. There are so many!

[mochichichi]

I honestly think that in some ways having a big waist->TBL is good because it's a biggish section with multiple fairly close together milestones in it. And then once you hit classic and start going for knee it's a biggish section with multiple milestones are far apart. It's like a practice round. It doesn't mean hip isn't a big milestone, but does anything really change between hip and tailbone? My hair routine hasn't really needed any adjustment since I hit waist.

[Chromis]

I honestly think that in some ways having a big waist->TBL is good because it's a biggish section with multiple fairly close together milestones in it. And then once you hit classic and start going for knee it's a biggish section with multiple milestones are far apart. It's like a practice round. It doesn't mean hip isn't a big milestone, but does anything really change between hip and tailbone? My hair routine hasn't really needed any adjustment since I hit waist.

I agree with this. Having multiple smaller milestones makes sense, since you fly right through them and how you can wear your hair super changes. I mean just the difference between being able to make that first ponytail is huge same for once you start being able to actually do an updo, or your first braids. Waist to tailbone though, you are already pretty committed by this point and you are already at the point most muggles consider "long"...which looking at the current list means, I pretty much think it is already fine and maybe that one can be merged. Then again, I don't post/read either thread, so I think the wishes of those who do would be more important.

I think possibly a larger thing to consider rather than nitpicking the exact graduations is: Are you personally happy with the verbiage of the zone you are in? Or the zones you will pass through? But that is probably a question for each thread.

It does not make sense to me to split them to the point where they need a separate subforum just to navigate them. Newbies are not as likely to find their way to them then and subforums do not tend to get as many views/posts. For that matter if you split them so much that they fall off the first page and people are just constantly starting new threads that people constantly ask us to merge...well that tells me they have probably been split too much!

[Bat]

It's not that hair routine changes it's about progression to the next milestone changing threads to me is like a reward for growing and I know for me hip is one of my major goals so I do like the idea of it having a thread with it in the title
And put it this way, if saying it's not needed to have all these theeads why isn't the all lengths thread used? If milestones aren't important to people that thread would have the most traffic

[Chromis]

Hip feels like an odd choice to me since I am assuming people mean high hip - but there are multiple definitions of "hip". My high hip to waist measurement isn't that far from my waist measurement, so for me MBL to waist is way longer in terms of time it took to grow. Waist and hip are likely the most variable of the milestones though!

But again, I'd put that call more in the court of those who are actually in that zone currently.

[Ylva]

We need more threads, rather than less, in the shorter and medium lengths. Growing or re-growing is a big adventure for us in those lengths, and there's much support needed and given among first-timers. And 2 years is discouraging to people who have never even been at WL before. I and a lot of us love being able to chart our progress semi regularly.

At the longer Classic+ lengths, it seems unanimous to leave them alone, so I will. The points raised by the true longhairs make a lot of sense regarding those threads.

As I already wrote in that post you partially quoted, I wrote I understand the idea behind more threads for SHORTER lengths. The 2-year span was an example concerning waist to tailbone in particular. Still, I think it’s mostly unnecessary to have more threads. This is a forum for conversation, so what is best for conversation should be nurtured. It’s not a game board where graduating a thread like gaining a new level trumps conversation. However, there are many creative ways to gamify hair growth, such as the No-trimming challenges.



And put it this way, if saying it's not needed to have all these theeads why isn't the all lengths thread used? If milestones aren't important to people that thread would have the most traffic

I think because no one is forbidden from participating in conversation in any given thread regardless of hair length. It’s not restrictive in that sense. It just keeps conversations and topics somewhat organised while catering to a sufficiently large target crowd.

[ArtOfNoot]

I am not totally sure what splitting a thread means. Would it just be renaming "WL to TBL" to "Hip to TBL" ? Or is a mod going to manually split the posts?

Ah, if only WL to Hip was the more trafficked thread :justy:

[Ylva]

Hip feels like an odd choice to me since I am assuming people mean high hip - but there are multiple definitions of "hip". My high hip to waist measurement isn't that far from my waist measurement, so for me MBL to waist is way longer in terms of time it took to grow. Waist and hip are likely the most variable of the milestones though!

But again, I'd put that call more in the court of those who are actually in that zone currently.

I for one am not at all in favour of a waist to hip thread specifically. The difference between those two markers on my body is like 5 cm, and I know there are many others like me, but then again, for some, the distance is great! Anyway, I think by that point, people generally have developed enough patience/routine that they need less encouragement to get to the next milestone, if only they want that, and as mentioned by I think mochichichi, there aren’t that meaningful changes in terms of styling and care, usually.

[mochichichi]

It's not that hair routine changes it's about progression to the next milestone changing threads to me is like a reward for growing and I know for me hip is one of my major goals so I do like the idea of it having a thread with it in the title
And put it this way, if saying it's not needed to have all these theeads why isn't the all lengths thread used? If milestones aren't important to people that thread would have the most traffic

Why would it not be about hair routine? That's what I go to the threads for--advice from people who are in a similar region for what they do now that they've started encountering x problem. I said that milestones are important, I just don't think that every milestone needs its own thread.

I'm commenting what I personally find the threads good for, I left the waist->TBL thread in April or so. It took me almost 3 years to get there from waist and I enjoyed all the comments from within the thread more than I did "graduating." But that's me, and there are lots of people here.

[Bat]

Why would it not be about hair routine? That's what I go to the threads for--advice from people who are in a similar region for what they do now that they've started encountering x problem. I said that milestones are important, I just don't think that every milestone needs its own thread.

I'm commenting what I personally find the threads good for, I left the waist->TBL thread in April or so. It took me almost 3 years to get there from waist and I enjoyed all the comments from within the thread more than I did "graduating." But that's me, and there are lots of people here.

I don't like feeling stuck but I mean I could just stop posting in the length threads which is an option

[baanoo]

I honestly think that in some ways having a big waist->TBL is good because it's a biggish section with multiple fairly close together milestones in it. And then once you hit classic and start going for knee it's a biggish section with multiple milestones are far apart. It's like a practice round. It doesn't mean hip isn't a big milestone, but does anything really change between hip and tailbone? My hair routine hasn't really needed any adjustment since I hit waist.

I feel this!

From waist to tbl I didn’t need much adjusting and also looooved seeing folks come and go (I was there a long time because of trimming) - it’s only since tbl that I’ve noticed changes needed to my routine.

I guess I feel like the longer you go the fewer threads you need. The encouragement of “graduating” for shorter lengths is great but once you hit waist it’s a long game in many ways.

[rosenester]

I feel so conflicted after hearing both sides to the WL threads overlap… not sure what I think anymore. :?: maybe we keep them as is, and for those of us who like the reward of graduating threads use the ones with closer milestones, and those who want community through the long haul use the WL-Tailbone thread.

I’ll sit with my thoughts and vote in the poll in a bit.

[Sigrid]

Popping in to say I'll always be a defender of the random "hip to whatever" threads because hip is such a variable length on different body types that it offers a lot more discussion than other lengths. Discussion is good. :) And as someone who is very long (lol) I do like the large multitude of threads as "accomplishments" so a giant merger would seem...counterproductive. Waist to hip might seem random to some people but it takes someone my height three years to get from waist to TBL so it seems nice to have a gap thread in between.

That's my input - I'm out!

[ArtOfNoot]

:soapbox: My new proposal:

HEAD
Buzz to Ear
Ear to Chin
Chin to SL~CBL

UPPER BACK
SL to APL
APL to BSL/MBL
BSL/MBL to WL - The Mid-Back Abyss

LOWER BACK
WL to CL (rename the Waist to Tailbone Length thread for this one because it is the most trafficked. And then combine all the threads that fall within this one)

BEYOND
CL to Knee
Knee +
Floor +


It is a very Spartan option, but still gives the shorter lengths plenty of variety-- after that I split the body into three parts.
*runs away before the people who want more milestones protest my drastic proposal* :run:

[Bat]

I had a very simple solution for the overlap
Keep the threads how they are and just take waist to tailbone out of the resource list and put the link of the waist to tailbone in the waist thread then people who visit that forum will see and decide either to join it or not

Unless we can just make as many goal overlaps as we please and have them added to resorces

[neko_kawaii]

What are the purposes of these threads?

Not a question about the purpose of proposed restructuring or new threads. What do different people see as the purpose of the existing threads? Why do you post there? Why do you read the threads you read?

[neko_kawaii]

Why do you post there?
When I post in the length threads it has been to

Post pictures of reaching a new milestone.
To ask for or give length specific advice.

Why do you read the threads you read?

For inspiration on styles that others are doing at a similar length.
The chance of coming across advice that is specific to a length.
To celebrate other people’s milestones.
Because I’m bored.

[ArtOfNoot]

I always thought the purpose of these threads was so people could go back and see what others before you did at that length. Example: I never thought about friction with a seatbelt until I read someone talking about how their hair hits the seatbelt now that they are APL. It also serves as a way to talk about hair length but not have our niche conversations be drowned out by all the other posts on a huge thread.

I scroll through length threads of my goal/future lengths to see what I have to look forwards to. And to try out buns that I might not have enough length for. I actually tend to be very quiet on threads about my length (except to ask a question very rarely)

[ArtOfNoot]

I had a very simple solution for the overlap
Keep the threads how they are and just take waist to tailbone out of the resource list and put the link of the waist to tailbone in the waist thread then people who visit that forum will see and decide either to join it or not

Unless we can just make as many goal overlaps as we please and have them added to resorces

Wait,, what is the waist thread?

[ArtOfNoot]

Sorry for triple posting in one go, but I still don't understand what is meant by "splitting" a thread

[Chromis]

I for one am not at all in favour of a waist to hip thread specifically. The difference between those two markers on my body is like 5 cm, and I know there are many others like me, but then again, for some, the distance is great! Anyway, I think by that point, people generally have developed enough patience/routine that they need less encouragement to get to the next milestone, if only they want that, and as mentioned by I think mochichichi, there aren’t that meaningful changes in terms of styling and care, usually.

Yeah, I was agreeing with waist to tailbone making more sense but I think I lost some quote nesting.

[Bat]

What are the purposes of these threads?

Not a question about the purpose of proposed restructuring or new threads. What do different people see as the purpose of the existing threads? Why do you post there? Why do you read the threads you read?

I generally post in a milestone group when I'm in that thread to motivate me to keep going of course with my track record it doesn't help but I like the idea that I'm leveling up, weird I know

[Bat]

I always thought the purpose of these threads was so people could go back and see what others before you did at that length. Example: I never thought about friction with a seatbelt until I read someone talking about how their hair hits the seatbelt now that they are APL. It also serves as a way to talk about hair length but not have our niche conversations be drowned out by all the other posts on a huge thread.

I scroll through length threads of my goal/future lengths to see what I have to look forwards to. And to try out buns that I might not have enough length for. I actually tend to be very quiet on threads about my length (except to ask a question very rarely)

When I first joined LHC I'd visit the longer threads but someone I don't know basically chased me out so I generally don't post in longer threads because of that

[Chromis]

I like your breakdown, Noot!

Mods can't really split a thread in the manner people are thinking, Splitting a grouping up would mean starting new threads. (We don't generally lock threads, so the old one might still get bumped anyhow...) Merging things though, we can do that all day long :laugh:

[Bat]

Yeah this is pretty old some different type of forums allow you to split threads by putting the page number of where the split occurs I used to be a mod on an avatar site called syndrone online and that was how we used to split theads

[mochichichi]

Why do you post there?
When I post in the length threads it has been to

Post pictures of reaching a new milestone.
To ask for or give length specific advice.

Why do you read the threads you read?

For inspiration on styles that others are doing at a similar length.
The chance of coming across advice that is specific to a length.
To celebrate other people’s milestones.
Because I’m bored.

Exactly this

[Chromis]

Yep, this is an old version of the software too, so we are a bit behind for extensions...or sometimes we find that they break things. It keeps chuggin along though and so do we! It has outlasted of lot of its competition (the forum software I mean, although LHC has indeed outlasted a few other hair forums)

[Braided Lady]

I didn't love that waist to hip wasn't a very used thread when I first hit waist, but at this point I am perfectly fine with the larger distance in the WL-TBL thread. I think that the naturally less used threads should probably get merged with the larger one, to eliminate the confusion. For me personally, I can happily celebrate milestones without moving threads all the time, so it doesn't bother me

[Braided Lady]

Why do you post there?
When I post in the length threads it has been to

Post pictures of reaching a new milestone.
To ask for or give length specific advice.

Why do you read the threads you read?

For inspiration on styles that others are doing at a similar length.
The chance of coming across advice that is specific to a length.
To celebrate other people’s milestones.
Because I’m bored.

I agree with this.
For me, the primary reason is to encourage and celebrate milestones with people at a similar length. I can spend more time looking at and discussing length specific things with people when I'm only looking at the people in my area, that I can actually relate to and potentially have useful information for, instead of looking at posts of all lengths.

[Bat]

Yep, this is an old version of the software too, so we are a bit behind for extensions...or sometimes we find that they break things. It keeps chuggin along though and so do we! It has outlasted of lot of its competition (the forum software I mean, although LHC has indeed outlasted a few other hair forums)

Yeah it's actually surprising after 20 years it still works better than most forum sites ive seen

[ArtOfNoot]

I didn't love that waist to hip wasn't a very used thread when I first hit waist, but at this point I am perfectly fine with the larger distance in the WL-TBL thread. I think that the naturally less used threads should probably get merged with the larger one, to eliminate the confusion. For me personally, I can happily celebrate milestones without moving threads all the time, so it doesn't bother me

I feel the same way. Graduating milestones is a great reward for patience, but graduating milestones doesn't need to involve leaving behind threads. If we focus so much on moving out of a thread, are we really enjoying the thread? It doesn't make sense to divide up the threads by milestone unless the goal is to move through this forum like levels in a game. And then we would just have 9 threads with posts of users time of arrival and maybe pictures when they graduate? I prefer to think of length threads as their own destinations, not just as mile-markers to blow through.

Edit: I'm not knocking those who collect milestones like game incentives (I'm currently on the WL level hoping to beat the HL boss round :luke:) I just don't think that the rewarding part of hitting a milestone should be leaving the thread. I get excited to update the length in my signature, others have their past milestones marked in color and their future marked in grey like a loading screen. We all like collecting our badges

[ArtOfNoot]

I like your breakdown, Noot!

Mods can't really split a thread in the manner people are thinking, Splitting a grouping up would mean starting new threads. (We don't generally lock threads, so the old one might still get bumped anyhow...) Merging things though, we can do that all day long :laugh:

Haha thanks!
Ah, so that confirms my voting “No” on splitting.
Starting new threads to replace older, lively, ones would feel like a loss to me. I’m all for the merging of overlapping threads though. (Again, looking at you WL to HL:patrol:)

[Bat]

Haha thanks!
Ah, so that confirms my voting “No” on splitting.
Starting new threads to replace older, lively, ones would feel like a loss to me. I’m all for the merging of overlapping threads though. (Again, looking at you WL to HL:patrol:)

I would prefer the waist to hip to stay please waist and hip id 3-4 inch difference in my weirdly long torso

[Vara La Fey]

I'm sorry if I overcomplicated my proposal. I originally added a couple bad ideas which I have since dropped. Now I simply mean:

1) Splitting "Buzz To Chin" into
"Buzz To Ear" (which would need to be created), and
"Ear To Chin" (which already exists).

2) Splitting "Waist To Tailbone" into
"Waist To Hip" (which already exists), and
"Hip To Tailbone" (which already exists).

3) Updating the "Length-specific Threads" section of the "Important Threads and Resources" (https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/announcement.php?f=9&a=11) to reflect those changes.

4) Also updating the same "Length-specific Threads" section to add links to
"TERMINAL" (which already exists), and
"The Mini-Milestone Thread" (which already exists).

I realize that "splitting threads" may not be the right term. What I mean is "merging"(?) the posts from "Buzz To Chin" into the new "Buzz To Ear" or into the existing "Ear To Chin", depending on which one they fit into. Then archiving any posts that are old and not replied to or otherwise not worth moving. Then archiving/locking/whatevering the remains of the "Buzz To Chin" thread that we just split, and removing it from the Length-specific Threads list.

And then doing the exact same thing with the redundant "Waist To Tailbone" thread by "merging"(?) its posts into "Waist To Hip" or into "Hip To Tailbone" and then removing it from the Length-specific Threads list.

I don't know how possible this kind of "merging" is or even if it's worth the work. The mods can tell us that.

After updating the "Length-specific Threads" section of the "Important Threads and Resources" to reflect the above changes, it would look like this:

Before above changes ..................... After above changes

All Lengths Post Here ........... All Lengths Post Here
Buzz to Chin Length ............. Buzz To Ear Length
Chin to Shoulder Length ......... Ear To Chin Length
Shoulder to APL Length .......... Chin to Shoulder Length
APL to MBL Length ............... Shoulder to APL Length
MBL to Waist Length ............. APL to MBL Length
Waist to Hip Length ............. MBL to Waist Length
Hip to Tailbone Length .......... Waist to Hip Length
Waist to Tailbone Length ........ Hip to Tailbone Length
Tailbone to Classic Length ...... Tailbone to Classic Length
Classic to Knee Length .......... Classic to Knee Length
Knee Length and Beyond! ......... Knee Length and Beyond!
Floor Length and Beyond! ........ Floor Length and Beyond!
Non-Growth Oriented Thread....... TERMINAL
................................. The Mini-Milestone Thread
................................. Non-Growth Oriented Thread

That's really all the changes I personally think we should make.

[Bat]

Wait,, what is the waist thread?

Just saw this sorry I was one my break and forgot some words I mean waist to hip*

But honestly my opinions changed to leave them ,as at this rate the waist to hip will be merged with waist/tbl and I eventually want to post in waist to hip in a few years if I can get past chin xD

[Vara La Fey]

Having multiple smaller milestones makes sense, since you fly right through them and how you can wear your hair super changes. I mean just the difference between being able to make that first ponytail is huge same for once you start being able to actually do an updo, or your first braids. Waist to tailbone though, you are already pretty committed by this point and you are already at the point most muggles consider "long"...which looking at the current list means, I pretty much think it is already fine and maybe that one can be merged. Then again, I don't post/read either thread, so I think the wishes of those who do would be more important.

There could be many differences between WL hair and HL hair, and I'm between the two right now for the first time ever. So far I've noticed that hair hitting my elbow which used to be sheds just hanging, are now actual hair, so I shouldn't yank on them. And I haven't yet hit the caught-in-waistband length yet, or other things I can't even foresee, but I'm sure they're coming by the time I hit HL. Point being: we need our WL-HL thread without being bogged down in HL-TBL posts which I'm sure the current Waist To Tailbone thread is full of. HL to TBL will prolly be a new adventure in itself.

And yes: the wishes of us in the Waist - Tailbone range should be more important, and many of us do not like the redundant Waist To Tailbone thread. Its staunchest defenders are those who graduated it long ago. They should remember that I gave up my (bad) ideas to restructure the threads at Classic + levels because I deferred to the wisdom of those in that range. I think they should show us the same courtesy about our Waist-Tailbone range.


And put it this way, if saying it's not needed to have all these theeads why isn't the all lengths thread used? If milestones aren't important to people that thread would have the most traffic

That's an excellent point. I'm sure "All Lengths Post Here" isn't used because it has too few markers for peer-length support and no graduating incentive.


This is a forum for conversation, so what is best for conversation should be nurtured. It’s not a game board where graduating a thread like gaining a new level trumps conversation.

Yes, this is a forum for conversation, and the Length-specific Threads within this forum are specifically for conversation about having hair in those lengths. There are hundreds (thousands?) of other threads available for conversations where graduating isn't relevant or even mentioned. Please do not impose their general rules onto our Length-specific Threads.


But I do agree that perhaps they should be all together somewhere that they can be easily passed over by the unwashed masses of us who don't post them. There are so many!

I've never tried to address whether the Length-specific Threads need a subforum. I just know they're a named category in the Index to Important Threads and Resources (https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/announcement.php?f=9&a=11). In the Mane Forum they're scattered among all the other threads, and my best guess is that's the best way, because I certainly don't go into subforums much, and apparently neither do a lot of people. (I just look for neat threads every now and then, and add any I like into my Subscriptions list, and then mostly just use that.)


Hip feels like an odd choice to me since I am assuming people mean high hip - but there are multiple definitions of "hip". My high hip to waist measurement isn't that far from my waist measurement, so for me MBL to waist is way longer in terms of time it took to grow. Waist and hip are likely the most variable of the milestones though!
But again, I'd put that call more in the court of those who are actually in that zone currently.

Hip is a common marker in conversation around here, and on me there is maybe a year's growth from WL to HL. But I'm halfway there because I didn't actually call WL until my longest strands were several inches past it.

And thanks for being willing to defer to us who are actually in the WL - TBL zone. :)


I for one am not at all in favour of a waist to hip thread specifically. The difference between those two markers on my body is like 5 cm, and I know there are many others like me, but then again, for some, the distance is great! Anyway, I think by that point, people generally have developed enough patience/routine that they need less encouragement to get to the next milestone, if only they want that, and as mentioned by I think mochichichi, there aren’t that meaningful changes in terms of styling and care, usually.

Do you realize that we already have a Waist To Hip thread and a Hip To Tailbone thread? The issue several of us want to fix is the redundant and overly inclusive Waist To Tailbone thread. Its posts should be split/merged/whatevered into WL-HL and HL-TBL threads, if that's feasible and worth the work the mods would have to do.


I guess I feel like the longer you go the fewer threads you need. The encouragement of “graduating” for shorter lengths is great but once you hit waist it’s a long game in many ways.

That may be true, but you real long-hairs still have plenty of your own threads. If the journey is so much the same after WL, then why not just combine all threads after WL into "Waist and Beyond"?


Popping in to say I'll always be a defender of the random "hip to whatever" threads because hip is such a variable length on different body types that it offers a lot more discussion than other lengths. Discussion is good. :) And as someone who is very long (lol) I do like the large multitude of threads as "accomplishments" so a giant merger would seem...counterproductive. Waist to hip might seem random to some people but it takes someone my height three years to get from waist to TBL so it seems nice to have a gap thread in between.

I'm 6'2" and Waist To Tailbone is a looong gap for me too. Plus TBL isn't even my goal. Hip is.


Why do you post there?
When I post in the length threads it has been to

Post pictures of reaching a new milestone.
To ask for or give length specific advice.

Why do you read the threads you read?

For inspiration on styles that others are doing at a similar length.
The chance of coming across advice that is specific to a length.
To celebrate other people’s milestones.
Because I’m bored.

Yes to all this.


I always thought the purpose of these threads was so people could go back and see what others before you did at that length. Example: I never thought about friction with a seatbelt until I read someone talking about how their hair hits the seatbelt now that they are APL. It also serves as a way to talk about hair length but not have our niche conversations be drowned out by all the other posts on a huge thread.


Yes to all this.


I didn't love that waist to hip wasn't a very used thread when I first hit waist, but at this point I am perfectly fine with the larger distance in the WL-TBL thread. I think that the naturally less used threads should probably get merged with the larger one, to eliminate the confusion.

WL-TBL has more posts because it covers more ground. Some of us think it covers too much ground. And certainly it's redundant to the threads WL-HL and HL-TBL. If those two threads were merged into WL-TBL, it would deprive us of milestone threads.


I agree with this.
For me, the primary reason is to encourage and celebrate milestones with people at a similar length. I can spend more time looking at and discussing length specific things with people when I'm only looking at the people in my area, that I can actually relate to and potentially have useful information for, instead of looking at posts of all lengths.

Yes to all this.

[giraff]

Let me post these numbers here as well:

waist to tailbone / May 21st 2008 / 13,232 replies (433 replies last 12 months)
waist to hip / December 27th 2008 / 2,364 replies (38 replies last 12 months)
Hip to TBL / September 12th 2010 / 288 replies (6 replies last 12 months)

To me, the numbers are pretty clear :) I also agree that there are plenty other ways to celebrate a milestone than to graduate a thread.

[Vara La Fey]

Let me post these numbers here as well:

waist to tailbone / May 21st 2008 / 13,232 replies (433 replies last 12 months)
waist to hip / December 27th 2008 / 2,364 replies (38 replies last 12 months)
Hip to TBL / September 12th 2010 / 288 replies (6 replies last 12 months)

To me, the numbers are pretty clear :) I also agree that there are plenty other ways to celebrate a milestone than to graduate a thread.

Except that many of us have made clear that we really like the graduation system. Don't just tell us, "aww, you don't need that".

[Bat]

I'm going to say one last thing then will drop out of the discussion since half of what I'm debating about isn't in my length range

I'd say make the Sub forum and put the main length threads as stickies ( including Waist to TBL)
But allow people to make any length range threads as they want and waist to hip could go there, even if there are lots of threads,the main list will be at the very top.

[lapushka]

Well, call me the old grump or any other name you want, but I am playing devil's advocate here. I like the way the current threads have grown. You cannot police a forum to death. The way it is, is what everyone (and their mama) knows and knows well. Restructuring this in a major way will only bring confusion. And why all of a sudden? I want to know why, most of all. Whatever was wrong? What if we change a couple titles to be "more inclusive" of other lengths?

[mochichichi]

Except that many of us have made clear that we really like the graduation system. Don't just tell us, "aww, you don't need that".

Then just leave it how it is. Those who like graduating threads can post in the two with shorter spans and those who like the longer thread can post there. Heck, post on both of them. It's worked fine so far, clearly waist->tbl has lots of traffic and people like having the hip milestone thread too.

We don't have to only have one, it's a forum, people are active in lots of different threads. Be active in the ones you like. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Bat]

Then just leave it how it is. Those who like graduating threads can post in the two with shorter spans and those who like the longer thread can post there. Heck, post on both of them. It's worked fine so far, clearly waist->tbl has lots of traffic and people like having the hip milestone thread too.

We don't have to only have one, it's a forum, people are active in lots of different threads. Be active in the ones you like. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Just saying one last thing I've been here three years and quite frequently I've seen people ask why there are two threads with waist, in it moving or merging them should potentially stop the same question being asked over and over I'm all for keeping them as is but at least only have one in the resorce list, it's the only one that has any real overlap.

[illicitlizard]

What an interesting discussion! I cannot speak to how the shorter-hairs feel but when it comes to the mid-lengths I like having the following threads:

>BSB-Waist
- what is mid-back anyway? Got to have something in the middle and getting to waist can feel like such a big deal! Full disclosure: I was already at waist when I got here so I don’t think I ever posted there (or maybe just a little at the beginning).
> Waist to TBL
- such a great transition and set of milestones in a group, enough folks to stay active and also feel good about the changes in styling/care that often happen at those lengths - I was in that thread for a few years and loved it.
> TBL to Classic
- no milestones in between butttttttt the butt is a long journey and “graduation” really marks Longhair™ stratus in a lot of ways.

In my opinion, a length thread ideally encompasses either a few milestones or a longer distance so you’re not bouncing around and instead have time to get invested in a slightly deeper way in the journeys of your fellow travelers.
I completely agree with this, if I could "like" your comment I would so consider this that.


I'm inclined to feel that there should actually be fewer threads. If we talk about the waist to tailbone thread for example, that's roughly a 2 years' journey on the average person, more or less, and I think that at that length, that's a good timeframe. ...:snip:

Agree with Ylva on this one too. You will have to pry waist-tbl from my cold dead hands.

My :twocents: as someone who has been on here from shorter than ear length to tailbone;
This question is dependent on why you frequent length specific threads. For me, it's motivation to grow from people who have almost "graduated", haircare tips/ frustrations for that particular length, and a sense of achievement from moving thread to thread given they are mostly centred around significant milestones.

Tl;dr: most of the threads already make sense given care needs/societal views of certain hair lengths.

Buzz to chin = super short, same care needs throughout, "low maintenance", unequivocally short hair. Of course this is only one thread. Why should it need to be split further?

Chin to shoulder = not short but not quite medium yet, good place to learn creative ways to keep it out of your damn face

Shoulder to APL = not particularly far for some people but feels significant, mechanical damage comes into play (bag straps anyone?)

APL to MBL = "long" in normal society, need to be way more careful with it compared to shorter lengths

For the rest I'd say

MBL to waist is perfectly fine, no overlap with other threads.

The problem as I see it is the number of redundant threads in the waist to tailbone space. Which one are you supposed to go to? Who knows. I found it a bit odd to post in the waist to tailbone with just past waist hair, given it's such a large milestone gap, but I argue that's only because there's an explicit waist to hip thread (not that it gets much love).
Waist to tailbone = the only thread in this section that needs to exist.

Everything past that I have no experience with, but looks like people don't want to change the longer threads and I agree the threads seem to be working just fine.
The problem I see with splitting the threads further is less traffic to each individual thread, people move between threads more frequently meaning less of a "community" vibe, and if you want to trim your hair the chance of having to go back to a previous thread increases in a big way.

[AspenSong]

I know I haven't posted much on the boards at all for the last few years, but I still lurk around and read and have been thinking of jumping in more now that my hair is finally nearly waist again and I'm feeling more my old self as far as hair stuff.
Anywho, my opinion overall doesn't amount to a hill of Nic Cage poo, but...

I kind of agree with LaPushka a bit here. Like, I'm just trying to understand why there's all this upheaval suddenly over these threads?
It's odd to me partly just because imo, I get on here after all my years here and the board is just so dead feeling to a degree. I'll go a couple days and check in and it's only a small handful of threads that even have new replies. So it doesn't seem terribly busy these days. Like, if there is some massive influx of issues by a lot of people that the Mods can't handle or questions no one can answer or something, that's one thing when it comes to asking about similar threads when it comes to length....but it doesn't seem that way?
It seems like you can just ask and move over to a different thread and post or not, easily enough?

Maybe I'm very dim, sorry.
Just not seeing why a couple of length overlaps in threads is a massive deal or titles are making people feel not included.
They've been there so long and it's been what it is for years, I mean, if a couple threads are merged, etc...not a biggie. I'm simply not getting it being a big thing. But I don't understand the whole "graduating" thing from thread to thread, but again that's just me. Nothing against anyone. I could see if the board had some pre-implemented system when you got some kind of badge or board recognition for it, it would be some kind of achievement.

Anywho. Just a weirdo who is fine with how things are or whatever helps the Mods do their stuff easiest. :toast:

[Aerya]

I did initially say that I'd merge the waist to hip and waist to tailbone threads, but considering the discussion is still going, I've been thinking about it a bit more. I will say that I haven't read every post in this discussion, as we're now on page 13. ;)

For starters, I definitely think that the length frame for each thread needs to be determined on a case by case basis, and not from a set standard for all of them. The needs are just different, as is the activity level. It seems most people are in agreement on this, so I won't elaborate further.

As for the waist-to-X threads... Personally, I find it unnecessary to have several threads within the same lengths - of course, people have different goals and are motivated by different things, but do we really need a length thread for every nuance...? While LHC remains fairly active, having multiple active threads about the same length areas often means there is less activity in one or the other. I know people feel differently about this, but I'd rather have one big thread that holds all the discussion on the topic. Reaching hip and BCL are both milestones even if it's not a thread graduation! And I say this as someone who has lingered in waist-to-hip+ length for years at this point. However, I will add that the waist-to-X length area is a very common one here at LHC, so that might be an argument for smaller threads... I'm just thinking out loud here.

Generally, I'd like fewer threads with more activity. As for fully restructuring the threads, I'd rather not. The threads have grown organically and some "imperfections" are part of the charm IMO. Besides, our bodies are so different, a set system for which milestones to mark as thread "graduations" will always be flawed in some ways. I do think we should limit new threads though and rather merge with existing ones if new ones are made.

[neko_kawaii]

There seems to be a slight difference between people who use threads mainly as motivation to reach goals and those who use threads in other ways.

Perhaps a solution to that is to create a set of threads that are purely for graduation for milestone to milestone. And clearly labeling graduation threads and the current discussion threads?

[Ylva]

And yes: the wishes of us in the Waist - Tailbone range should be more important, and many of us do not like the redundant Waist To Tailbone thread. Its staunchest defenders are those who graduated it long ago. They should remember that I gave up my (bad) ideas to restructure the threads at Classic + levels because I deferred to the wisdom of those in that range. I think they should show us the same courtesy about our Waist-Tailbone range.

Some people may not be at x length now but that doesn’t mean they won’t be there in the future. There’s no need for any kind of “us versus them” setup.


Yes, this is a forum for conversation, and the Length-specific Threads within this forum are specifically for conversation about having hair in those lengths. There are hundreds (thousands?) of other threads available for conversations where graduating isn't relevant or even mentioned. Please do not impose their general rules onto our Length-specific Threads.

The length threads are among the most poplar ones on the forum. There are many other ways for people to gamify their hair growth journey if that’s what keeps them going, and as I said previously, I’m not against more threads for lengths shorter than waist.

I’m sure, in the end, we all strive for a functional system that people can be mostly happy with.


Do you realize that we already have a Waist To Hip thread and a Hip To Tailbone thread? The issue several of us want to fix is the redundant and overly inclusive Waist To Tailbone thread. Its posts should be split/merged/whatevered into WL-HL and HL-TBL threads, if that's feasible and worth the work the mods would have to do.

Yes, I do realise that. I’ve been here for many a year, and spent the majority of those years “hanging out” in the waist to tailbone thread. I was even there saying I was in favour of merging them into the waist to tailbone thread as this topic first popped up recently, and would have gladly done it ages ago but never brought it up in the moderators’ area.

Posts cannot be split in that manner.

[Ylva]

Why do you post there?
When I post in the length threads it has been to

Post pictures of reaching a new milestone.
To ask for or give length specific advice.

Why do you read the threads you read?

For inspiration on styles that others are doing at a similar length.
The chance of coming across advice that is specific to a length.
To celebrate other people’s milestones.
Because I’m bored.

Exactly this for me as well.

“Graduation” isn’t a major thing for me, I prefer the larger and less homogenous communities in the length threads and the peer support which definitely is there even if not everyone is at the exact same length as you. Graduation feels more special to me anyway if it happens more rarely.

[Ylva]

Then just leave it how it is. Those who like graduating threads can post in the two with shorter spans and those who like the longer thread can post there. Heck, post on both of them. It's worked fine so far, clearly waist->tbl has lots of traffic and people like having the hip milestone thread too.

We don't have to only have one, it's a forum, people are active in lots of different threads. Be active in the ones you like. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Agreed. In the end, the members decide what should be there and what shouldn’t by posting and keeping the threads active. That’s how it has been so far.

[neko_kawaii]

Another fun option for those who enjoy gamifying their hair journey, some sort of pretty badge that could be displayed in their signature.

[Ylva]

Another fun option for those who enjoy gamifying their hair journey, some sort of pretty badge that could be displayed in their signature.

Could there be a selection of LHC badges for reaching milestones and completing various challenges? I don’t have the skills to make such graphic but I’m sure someone does!

[AspenSong]

Another fun option for those who enjoy gamifying their hair journey, some sort of pretty badge that could be displayed in their signature.

That would be a way to do it for sure.
Had I my computer I'd make up some of those and could post for people to save.
If people don't care about them being super uniform, it would be simple to make a little something like that with Canva and add text, etc or a countdown of length markers reached and what's to go.

[Bri-Chan]

I completely agree with this, if I could "like" your comment I would so consider this that.


Agree with Ylva on this one too. You will have to pry waist-tbl from my cold dead hands.

My :twocents: as someone who has been on here from shorter than ear length to tailbone;
This question is dependent on why you frequent length specific threads. For me, it's motivation to grow from people who have almost "graduated", haircare tips/ frustrations for that particular length, and a sense of achievement from moving thread to thread given they are mostly centred around significant milestones.

Tl;dr: most of the threads already make sense given care needs/societal views of certain hair lengths.

Buzz to chin = super short, same care needs throughout, "low maintenance", unequivocally short hair. Of course this is only one thread. Why should it need to be split further?

Chin to shoulder = not short but not quite medium yet, good place to learn creative ways to keep it out of your damn face

Shoulder to APL = not particularly far for some people but feels significant, mechanical damage comes into play (bag straps anyone?)

APL to MBL = "long" in normal society, need to be way more careful with it compared to shorter lengths

For the rest I'd say

MBL to waist is perfectly fine, no overlap with other threads.

The problem as I see it is the number of redundant threads in the waist to tailbone space. Which one are you supposed to go to? Who knows. I found it a bit odd to post in the waist to tailbone with just past waist hair, given it's such a large milestone gap, but I argue that's only because there's an explicit waist to hip thread (not that it gets much love).
Waist to tailbone = the only thread in this section that needs to exist.

Everything past that I have no experience with, but looks like people don't want to change the longer threads and I agree the threads seem to be working just fine.
The problem I see with splitting the threads further is less traffic to each individual thread, people move between threads more frequently meaning less of a "community" vibe, and if you want to trim your hair the chance of having to go back to a previous thread increases in a big way.

I also have the possibly rude opinion that if you can't appreciate the progress of growing without the positive enforcement of a new thread with every milestone, you need to learn patience, not create superfluous threads.

I think the exact same thing.

Anyway I use the milestone threads not for inspiration, but because I genuinely enjoy following y'all journeys, at any length.
I think that milestones are just a way to quickly visualize everyone's length and to share tips for people with the same length, but they shouldn't be seen as a prison to escape as quickly as possible. I understand the existence of some awkward lengths, but it can't be this way till you reach your goal length.

[Ylva]

I think the exact same thing.

Anyway I use the milestone threads not for inspiration, but because I genuinely enjoy following y'all journeys, at any length.
I think that milestones are just a way to quickly visualize everyone's length and to share tips for people with the same length, but they shouldn't be seen as a prison to escape as quickly as possible. I understand the existence of some awkward lengths, but it can't be this way till you reach your goal length.

Very well said!

[MusicalSpoons]

Yes, this is a forum for conversation, and the Length-specific Threads within this forum are specifically for conversation about having hair in those lengths. There are hundreds (thousands?) of other threads available for conversations where graduating isn't relevant or even mentioned. Please do not impose their general rules onto our Length-specific Threads.


I think I'm starting to understand the disconnect.

Wanting to grow through all the lengths in the length-specific thread in order to 'graduate' to the next is not a requirement to participate in the discussion focused on hair at the relevant lengths.

These threads are for anybody, although obviously the vast majority of activity in them will be coming from those either at the relevant lengths covered by the thread, or perhaps relatively recent 'graduates' (or alumni!) who can still offer tips and insights.

member of a thread, i.e. currently at the relevant length, and being a participant not at that length (either shorter or longer) but that's just for me to keep a mental distinction between posting on the thread that's relevant to my current length, and posting on threads I've either left or haven't yet joined.
I think that ties in with the idea of graduation too.]

We used to quite often have 'X length by Y date' threads, when a few people were growing at a similar length and rate and started their own thread specifically to hit the milestone and graduate at the end. They serve their specific purpose well, although there's no easy way of finding past ones other than searching - I guess a subforum for past ones might be a useful archive for people wanting to read about specific length journeys others have already done :hmm:

[lapushka]

There seems to be a slight difference between people who use threads mainly as motivation to reach goals and those who use threads in other ways.

Perhaps a solution to that is to create a set of threads that are purely for graduation for milestone to milestone. And clearly labeling graduation threads and the current discussion threads?

I actually can find myself in this solution. I think it's great. Then we get a clear distinction between chatter/discussion for the sake of chatter/discussion on various lengths and milestones, and the "official" graduation/challenge threads.

Yeah, not bad!

[Bat]

There seems to be a slight difference between people who use threads mainly as motivation to reach goals and those who use threads in other ways.

Perhaps a solution to that is to create a set of threads that are purely for graduation for milestone to milestone. And clearly labeling graduation threads and the current discussion threads?

I'd be happy with this. Unless it's like one big mega thread and I made one of those and it gets no traffic

[Bat]

I'm definitely out since everything I say options or opinion wise gets totally ignored and being ignored makes me angry do whatever you all want I'm noping out of the discussion

I do kinda like Neko's last option

[Chromis]

I know I haven't posted much on the boards at all for the last few years, but I still lurk around and read and have been thinking of jumping in more now that my hair is finally nearly waist again and I'm feeling more my old self as far as hair stuff.
Anywho, my opinion overall doesn't amount to a hill of Nic Cage poo, but...

I kind of agree with LaPushka a bit here. Like, I'm just trying to understand why there's all this upheaval suddenly over these threads?
It's odd to me partly just because imo, I get on here after all my years here and the board is just so dead feeling to a degree. I'll go a couple days and check in and it's only a small handful of threads that even have new replies. So it doesn't seem terribly busy these days. Like, if there is some massive influx of issues by a lot of people that the Mods can't handle or questions no one can answer or something, that's one thing when it comes to asking about similar threads when it comes to length....but it doesn't seem that way?
It seems like you can just ask and move over to a different thread and post or not, easily enough?

Maybe I'm very dim, sorry.
Just not seeing why a couple of length overlaps in threads is a massive deal or titles are making people feel not included.
They've been there so long and it's been what it is for years, I mean, if a couple threads are merged, etc...not a biggie. I'm simply not getting it being a big thing. But I don't understand the whole "graduating" thing from thread to thread, but again that's just me. Nothing against anyone. I could see if the board had some pre-implemented system when you got some kind of badge or board recognition for it, it would be some kind of achievement.

Anywho. Just a weirdo who is fine with how things are or whatever helps the Mods do their stuff easiest. :toast:

Aspen!! I just thought of you the other day while dusting my cute clay quail :D

I'm pretty sure the reason this is suddenly a big thread with many Strong Opinions is just that we don't have any big giant drama happening *knocks on wood* so instead we are having an unexpectedly (to me anyhow) Intense Discussion about the milestone threads :laugh: I'm okay with this! It's kinda like when the big local news headline in the nearby city was about someone's lost sheep wandering into Mark's Work Wearhouse. If that's the most important headline of the, I'd say things are pretty nice.


Another fun option for those who enjoy gamifying their hair journey, some sort of pretty badge that could be displayed in their signature.

Oooh, I'm getting some late 90's Geocities vibes here. We aren't going to allow sparkletext though, right?

[Vara La Fey]

Well, call me the old grump or any other name you want, but I am playing devil's advocate here. I like the way the current threads have grown. You cannot police a forum to death. The way it is, is what everyone (and their mama) knows and knows well. Restructuring this in a major way will only bring confusion. And why all of a sudden? I want to know why, most of all. Whatever was wrong? What if we change a couple titles to be "more inclusive" of other lengths?

Not sure what you mean by "more inclusive of other lengths". The threads BUZZ-CHIN and WL-TBL are already too inclusive of other lengths, but maybe I misunderstood you.

I never suggested "policing" a forum or a thread in any way, shape or form. These are my latest suggestions (https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=156025&p=3990271&viewfull=1#post3990271), and they only address adding two markers, "splitting" two threads so they fit the added markers, and then updating the Length-specific Threads list.

Adding two markers and updating the List is not a "major" restructuring. I originally proposed a major restructuring, and I quickly took you Rapunzels' sage advice to leave the Classic+ threads alone because - and I hadn't realized this - it's a different world there. But the suggestions we're now debating aren't in that world, they're in the world of mid-body, and we medium-hairs still need our markers and all the rest which we've told all of you very clearly several times.

This became an issue now because I graduated from MBL-WL and, along with a few other people, I wasn't sure whether to join WL-TBL or WL-HL. I joined both, so now I have to post things twice and follow two sets of replies. I don't know what happened to those 2-3 other people; maybe they're in this discussion.

[AspenSong]

Aspen!! I just thought of you the other day while dusting my cute clay quail :D

I'm pretty sure the reason this is suddenly a big thread with many Strong Opinions is just that we don't have any big giant drama happening *knocks on wood* so instead we are having an unexpectedly (to me anyhow) Intense Discussion about the milestone threads :laugh: I'm okay with this! It's kinda like when the big local news headline in the nearby city was about someone's lost sheep wandering into Mark's Work Wearhouse. If that's the most important headline of the, I'd say things are pretty nice.

Awww! That's so sweet. I think of you when I watch Quail keeping videos because I remember making that little guy! And of course when I think of the best sleepy tea ever. :D

Lol, I suppose you're right on the lack of drama. Laughing at the lost sheep headline thing just because that's pretty much how it is where I'm living right now too.

[Braided Lady]

Someone suggested leaving up both waist threads, which wouldn't address the original and real problem that there is a lot of confusion for most people approaching waist because of the two. But maybe if there is a way to clearly describe the two, like, join here(waist to hip) if your focus is jumping through milestone threads, and frequent here(waist to tailbone) if you're looking for stronger community in your journey through these lengths,
It could leave both options open to people(who are, as hads already been addressed, different, and want different things) and clear up the confusions at the same time

[Vara La Fey]

Then just leave it how it is. Those who like graduating threads can post in the two with shorter spans and those who like the longer thread can post there. Heck, post on both of them. It's worked fine so far, clearly waist->tbl has lots of traffic and people like having the hip milestone thread too.
We don't have to only have one, it's a forum, people are active in lots of different threads. Be active in the ones you like. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

The problem in the HL zone isn't some inability to join all the redundant threads. The problem is that they are redundant threads. If we want to catch the latest, we have to read at least two threads. If we have something to post, we will have to post it to at least two threads and scan at least two threads for replies. Will we get warnings for "spamming" if we post the same thing in two or even in all three threads?

Here might be the solution: Merge all the HL-TBL posts and the HL-TBL name into the larger WL-TBL thread. The only thing that would be phased out would be the name "Waist To Tailbone".

This way we would still have our needed marker structure, you would still have your posts together, and the redundancy problem would solve itself over time because the aging WL posts would be forgotten about as LHCers naturally start using the new structure.

That's pretty much a no-lose scenario, and now I keep thinking someone else already suggested it. Sorry for not remembering who to credit. :(

And we can do a variation of this same thing with Buzz To Chin.

[Vara La Fey]

I also have the possibly rude opinion that if you can't appreciate the progress of growing without the positive enforcement of a new thread with every milestone, you need to learn patience, not create superfluous threads.

Not so much rude as false. The undeniable fact is that these Length-specific Threads exist for people in specific ranges, rather than to impose your personal opinion about "patience".

People growing their hair are already acquainted with patience anyway, and will accept or reject is regardless of thread structure.

And the "superfluous" threads in the Hip zone already exist.

But I have a possible solution to the whole uproar. Will post it below.

[Vara La Fey]

There seems to be a slight difference between people who use threads mainly as motivation to reach goals and those who use threads in other ways.
Perhaps a solution to that is to create a set of threads that are purely for graduation for milestone to milestone. And clearly labeling graduation threads and the current discussion threads?

No real difference in the people. We use Length Threads as both peer support and graduation incentive.

Creating purely graduation threads would split these motives up and be truly redundant. And would have to be policed: "Sorry user, that was a peer support question in a graduation thread."

I think I have a no-lose solution. Will post it below.

[Vara La Fey]

I was even there saying I was in favour of merging them into the waist to tailbone thread as this topic first popped up recently, and would have gladly done it ages ago but never brought it up in the moderators’ area.
Posts cannot be split in that manner.

It's dawned on me that merging can likely be done in a way that makes everyone happy. No splitting, no lasting redundancy. Stay tuned. :)

[Vara La Fey]

Here's a solution that should make everyone fairly happy.

What if we merge the smaller HL-TBL into the larger WL-TBL thread but keep the HL-TBL name? The only changes anybody would have to remember is that "Waist To Tailbone" would now be called "Hip To Tailbone" and would be for the hip to tailbone length range only going forward.

Before these changes ..................... After these changes
All Lengths Post Here ........... All Lengths Post Here
Buzz to Chin Length ............. Buzz To Ear Length
Chin to Shoulder Length ......... Ear To Chin Length
Shoulder to APL Length .......... Chin to Shoulder Length
APL to MBL Length ............... Shoulder to APL Length
MBL to Waist Length ............. APL to MBL Length
Waist to Hip Length ............. MBL to Waist Length
Hip to Tailbone Length .......... Waist to Hip Length
Waist to Tailbone Length ........ Hip to Tailbone Length (Original WL-TBL posts + HL-TBL posts. For HL-TBL going forward.)
Tailbone to Classic Length ...... Tailbone to Classic Length
Classic to Knee Length .......... Classic to Knee Length
Knee Length and Beyond! ......... Knee Length and Beyond!
Floor Length and Beyond! ........ Floor Length and Beyond!
Non-Growth Oriented Thread....... TERMINAL
................................. The Mini-Milestone Thread
................................. Non-Growth Oriented Thread

1. We get to keep complete upper-body milestone structure for peer support and graduation. YAY that!
2. People in the current WL-TBL thread get to keep their conversations together. YAY that!
3. The HL-TBL posts would be added to the kept-together WL-TBL posts. YAY that!
4. The overlap in the thread structure would be gone. YAY that!
5. The overlap in the thread posts in the newly merged/renamed thread would solve itself over time because the aging waist-to-hip posts would eventually "scroll off" of our attention as people naturally adapt to the new structure.

It should be a no-lose scenario. No major upheavals. No splitting existing conversations across other Length Threads. No risk of losing posts. No new badges or other graduation substitutes. No subforums. No super-huge workload for the mods.

And we could fix the Buzz To Chin mess this way too. The Length-specific Threads list above would still end up the same.

Someone may have suggested this method already. Sorry if I'm failing to credit anyone.

[Bat]

My newest idea is simple

Buzz to chin: change to Buzz|Ear|Chin
Chin to Shoulder: no change
Shoulder to Apl: Shoulder|CBL|APL
APL to MBL: APL to Midback Abyss
MBL to Waist: stay the same
Waist to hip: Merge with Waist to TBL
Waist to TBL': Waist|Hip|BCL|Tailbone ( with or without BCL)
and so on since all we are actually doing is adding all milestone markers without having to make or split existing threads

This will probably be ignored but I just can't seem to help myself 😭

[MusicalSpoons]

My newest idea is simple
:scissors:
and so on since all we are actually doing is adding all milestone markers without having to make or split existing threads


Do you mean simply changing the titles?

[Chromis]

My newest idea is simple

Buzz to chin: change to Buzz|Ear|Chin
Chin to Shoulder: no change
Shoulder to Apl: Shoulder|CBL|APL
APL to MBL: APL to Midback Abyss
MBL to Waist: stay the same
Waist to hip: Merge with Waist to TBL
Waist to TBL': Waist|Hip|BCL|Tailbone ( with or without BCL)
and so on since all we are actually doing is adding all milestone markers without having to make or split existing threads

This will probably be ignored but I just can't seem to help myself ��

That's pretty brilliant to add in the midmarkers into the title. Me likey!

[Vara La Fey]

My newest idea is simple
Buzz to chin: change to Buzz|Ear|Chin
Chin to Shoulder: no change
Shoulder to Apl: Shoulder|CBL|APL
APL to MBL: APL to Midback Abyss
MBL to Waist: stay the same
Waist to hip: Merge with Waist to TBL
Waist to TBL': Waist|Hip|BCL|Tailbone ( with or without BCL)
and so on since all we are actually doing is adding all milestone markers without having to make or split existing threads


Just adding markers to the titles doesn't add the missing Ear and Hip markers as peer-support/graduation threads. What you listed above would actually eliminate both the WL-HL and HL-TBL threads which already exist and which we need.

BUT. Let's say we merge HL-TBL into WL-TBL as you (and I) have suggested and also rename the newly merged thread to HL-TBL. That eliminates WL-TBL as a concept but preserves all its posts in a still-very-active thread. It also preserves the WL-HL and HL-TBL threads without "splitting" and without having to change a bunch of other titles.

[ArtOfNoot]

My newest idea is simple

Buzz to chin: change to Buzz|Ear|Chin
Chin to Shoulder: no change
Shoulder to Apl: Shoulder|CBL|APL
APL to MBL: APL to Midback Abyss
MBL to Waist: stay the same
Waist to hip: Merge with Waist to TBL
Waist to TBL': Waist|Hip|BCL|Tailbone ( with or without BCL)
and so on since all we are actually doing is adding all milestone markers without having to make or split existing threads

This will probably be ignored but I just can't seem to help myself ��

I like that it is clearly labeled like Lapushka's suggestion and still deals with the redundancies in the WL area :D

[Bat]

Do you mean simply changing the titles?

Yes but merging waist to hip into the waist to Tbl and rename that waist hip tbl

[Bat]

That's pretty brilliant to add in the midmarkers into the title. Me likey!

I think it just works and doesn't really knock the apple cart I'm not sure if why I didn't think of this before 😂 it's just so simple

[Lady Stardust]

I like Bat’s idea of adding in the other markers into the title too.

[illicitlizard]

Not so much rude as false. The undeniable fact is that these Length-specific Threads exist for people in specific ranges, rather than to impose your personal opinion about "patience".

People growing their hair are already acquainted with patience anyway, and will accept or reject is regardless of thread structure.

And the "superfluous" threads in the Hip zone already exist.

But I have a possible solution to the whole uproar. Will post it below.

Not what I said. Needing to gamify a long journey by breaking it up into multiple tiny chunks simply smacks of impatience to me. Not saying that has anything to do with the current purpose of threads.
Also agree that there are superfluous threads in hip zone, that was my entire argument.
I hope this thread can perhaps end soon.

[Aerya]

Not what I said. Needing to gamify a long journey by breaking it up into multiple tiny chunks simply smacks of impatience to me. Not saying that has anything to do with the current purpose of threads.
Also agree that there are superfluous threads in hip zone, that was my entire argument.
I hope this thread can perhaps end soon.

I agree.

It seems most people here would like to keep things more or less as they are. The main argument seems to be the waist-to-X threads and whether they should be split or merged, but if we can't agree, perhaps we should just leave it? Like someone else pointed out earlier in the thread, people will use whatever threads they prefer, and the inactive ones will disappear organically. For me, I just don't think LHC is active enough at this point to warrant a whole restructuring of the system, nor splitting up threads into smaller chunks. Changing the titles as per Bat's last suggestion is fine by me, but I don't see why we need to keep this discussion going when most people want to keep things more or less as they are.

[lapushka]

Yep I like Bat's idea. A simple title thread change would be the least invasive, IMHO. Otherwise it's like having a shovel go through this forum and I don't think I like it. At all costs, that is what you want to avoid, IMO. Such brutal change, and whatever for. I still don't know why, and no one is willing to answer *w h y*

[Bat]

Yep I like Bat's idea. A simple title thread change would be the least invasive, IMHO. Otherwise it's like having a shovel go through this forum and I don't think I like it. At all costs, that is what you want to avoid, IMO. Such brutal change, and whatever for. I still don't know why, and no one is willing to answer *w h y*

Basically the main reason was because of the overlap of waist to hip and waist to Tbl.
it was confusing for some new people were posting in both threads the same thing. so instead of checking 1 length threads they were cross posting twice and hip is a major goal ( at least for me) so we wanted it to have a waist to hip and hip to Tbl so it flowed with the resorce list better

[Aerya]

Basically the main reason was because of the overlap of waist to hip and waist to Tbl.
it was confusing for some new people were posting in both threads the same thing. so instead of checking 1 length threads they were cross posting twice and hip is a major goal ( at least for me) so we wanted it to have a waist to hip and hip to Tbl so it flowed with the resorce list better

Honestly I'd be fine with either, and I agree that multiple threads is unnecessary. But if we were to go with the waist-to-hip and hip-to-TBL threads, what would we do with the waist-to-TBL thread? Would we make that one into hip-to-TBL, or make a whole new thread? I'd rather not lose the content there, it's a great resource both for tips and tricks, as well as motivation, for those growing in that area (or aiming to, someday!).

[Bat]

Honestly I'd be fine with either, and I agree that multiple threads is unnecessary. But if we were to go with the waist-to-hip and hip-to-TBL threads, what would we do with the waist-to-TBL thread? Would we make that one into hip-to-TBL, or make a whole new thread? I'd rather not lose the content there, it's a great resource both for tips and tricks, as well as motivation, for those growing in that area (or aiming to, someday!).

If they kept them separate the bigger thread would probably be the Hip to Tbl and the smaller one waist to hip basically it would just be a renamed, making a whole new thread would be a waste of history and that's definitely not what I'd want

But if they merged them the smaller thread would be assimilated to the bigger thread and I THINK the post/page will be like 200+ pages more though don't quote me on that

[baanoo]

If they kept them separate the bigger thread would probably be the Hip to Tbl and the smaller one waist to hip basically it would just be a renamed, making a whole new thread would be a waste of history and that's definitely not what I'd want
What if the waist to hip and hip to tbl threads were simply merged into the waist to tbl thread? This would solve everything.

[Bat]

What if the waist to hip and hip to tbl threads were simply merged into the waist to tbl thread? This would solve everything.

Hip is important to some people like me and Vera that's what this thread has kept going as it has I'd be ok with the merges if the title has waist hip and TBL' in it

Cause imagine if it was the reversed that waist to Tbl was merged into Waist to hip but Tbl is your goal how would you feel about that? (granted it's not that same since waist-Tbl includes hip but using this as an example)
But merge them and call it waist hip tbl = everyone is happy.

[Vara La Fey]

But if we were to go with the waist-to-hip and hip-to-TBL threads, what would we do with the waist-to-TBL thread? Would we make that one into hip-to-TBL, or make a whole new thread? I'd rather not lose the content there, it's a great resource both for tips and tricks, as well as motivation, for those growing in that area (or aiming to, someday!).

Yes, exactly: my idea is to make WL-TBL into HL-TBL and keep in it the content from both the current WL-TBL and HL-TBL.

Bat's version is pretty similar because we started discussing it in DMs.

Neither of wants to lose any post content.

[Ylva]

That's pretty brilliant to add in the midmarkers into the title. Me likey!

I quite like that idea as well.


Hip is important to some people like me and Vera that's what this thread has kept going as it has I'd be ok with the merges if the title has waist hip and TBL' in it

Cause imagine if it was the reversed that waist to Tbl was merged into Waist to hip but Tbl is your goal how would you feel about that? (granted it's not that same since waist-Tbl includes hip but using this as an example)
But merge them and call it waist hip tbl = everyone is happy.

A milestone isn’t less important just because it’s not the starting or ending marker of a length thread. But I like your idea of mentioning all the markers included in that span.

[Bat]

I quite like that idea as well.



A milestone isn’t less important just because it’s not the starting or ending marker of a length thread. But I like your idea of mentioning all the markers included in that span.

Most have said that hip etc is redundant so it seems people don't have the same opinion that as you about them being all important 😅

[mochichichi]

I like this new plan of calling the thread waist | hip | tailbone

Put all the threads together so we don't lose anything and it's clear that hip is a major milestone, it's just includes as one of three in that thread.

[Ylva]

Most have said that hip etc is redundant so it seems people don't have the same opinion that as you about them being all important ��

Sorry, I don’t understand what you mean. The most fuss here has been about hip-related milestones specifically. I don’t think anyone is saying that hip is a redundant milestone but that the two “extra” THREADS are redundant in the presence of the bigger one that encompasses hip.

[rosenester]

Just adding markers to the titles doesn't add the missing Ear and Hip markers as peer-support/graduation threads. What you listed above would actually eliminate both the WL-HL and HL-TBL threads which already exist and which we need.

BUT. Let's say we merge HL-TBL into WL-TBL as you (and I) have suggested and also rename the newly merged thread to HL-TBL. That eliminates WL-TBL as a concept but preserves all its posts in a still-very-active thread. It also preserves the WL-HL and HL-TBL threads without "splitting" and without having to change a bunch of other titles.

If this ends up being the consensus, I would move right over the Waist-Hip thread happily and probably reside there indefinitely (unless I get another round of LHCitis.)

I would request a ‘previously waist-tailbone’ added somewhere so that mine and others who posted prior to the name change would not seem out of place. I do frequently read through old threads that haven’t had activity for a while to learn more, so I would expect someone to do the same and see my photos of clearly waist length hair in a thread for hip+.

BTW, I don’t know if I said this before in this thread, but THANKS for bringing up this topic, I think the conversation was needed and I hope we come to a consensus soon.

I like this new plan of calling the thread waist | hip | tailbone

Put all the threads together so we don't lose anything and it's clear that hip is a major milestone, it's just includes as one of three in that thread.

As much as I would like a home in a waist-hip thread, this seems to be simplest to do, would be less disruptive to the previous posts in a well love thread (waist-tailbone), and a good compromise that eliminates the confusion of overlapping threads. (Thanks, Bat, for sticking through the conversation and thinking of a compromise)

:blossom:

Edit to add:
I just went over to the poll as I finally decided what I think… but I don’t think I will vote in the poll, because I don’t want to leave the warts and all :laugh: I think combining the threads would be less confusing for many of us who FINALLY reach WL with a sigh of relief and then have trouble deciding which thread to ‘belong’ and waist-tailbone in inclusive for how differently our bodies are shaped, and different length measurements for the same body milestone markers. So someone with a long torso but at HL may benefit from hair care and style advice from someone at TBL if they both measure 34” (just throwing a number out in the wind, I just know I will be at HL at 31” which I mentioned in the conversation below the poll).

[Vara La Fey]

Everybody please imagine this for a moment:

[...]
MBL to Waist - no change
Waist to Hip - no change
Hip to Tailbone (F.K.A. WL-TBL) (Has all WL-TBL posts + all HL-TBL posts, but new non-reply posts focus on HL-TBL.)
Tailbone to Classic - no change
[...]

In this hip area, that one merge/rename action ^ is all we need to do to fix the problems of redundant threads, specific range inclusion and content preservation.

Are there any objections to that merge/rename action?

[Vara La Fey]

I would request a ‘previously waist-tailbone’ added somewhere so that mine and others who posted prior to the name change would not seem out of place.

Adding an FKA ("formerly known as") to the merged thread name is a good idea. I included it in my post directly above. :-)

[Bat]

Buzz Ear Chin
Chin Collarbone Shoulder
Shoulder Underarm ( seems nicer than armpit xD)
Underarm Midback Abyss
Midback Abyss Waist
Waist Hip
Hip BCL Tailbone
Tailbone Classic
Classic Mid Thigh/Fingertip Knee ( or Classic Thigh/Fingertip Knee)
Knee Calf Ankle Floor ( old name knee and beyond)
Floor and Beyond


I like the words spelled out in full but Buttcrack is so ugly so I just made it the abbreviation

[mochichichi]

Buzzz Ear Chin
Chin Collarbone Shoulder
Shoulder Underarm ( seems nicer than armpit xD)
Underarm Midback Abyss
Midback Abyss Waist
Waist Hip Tailbone
Tailbone BCL Classic
Classic Mid Thigh/Fingertip Knee ( or Classic Thigh Knee)
Knee Mid Calf Ankle ( old name knee and beyond)
Floor and Beyond
(Or just Knee Calf Ankle Floor
And Floor and Beyond )

I like the words spelled out in full but Buttcrack is so ugly so I just made it the abbreviation

i like Bat's idea.
I don't think Knee+ and Floor+ need renaming since they're already fairly clear and the long longhairs said they like them as is.

[Bat]

i like Bat's idea.
I don't think Knee+ and Floor+ need renaming since they're already fairly clear and the long longhairs said they like them as is.

The proposal was different back in the beginning it was to merge knee and beyond into classic to knee I feel that was why they were opposed this will keep the topic just with a new inclusive name

Obviously I can't speak for them but I believe that was why it had such a strong reaction

[MusicalSpoons]

I can't speak for the current members of classic to knee but given there are milestones of FTL and MTL in between, renaming it could get clunky. Plus my own journey was split up into upper thigh / FTL / mid-thigh / lower thigh, if the thread name had specified the between milestones I don't know whether I'd have felt so free to break it up like that (worked out really handy that classic - knee was 12" so each 3" was a quarter of the thigh abyss, but others break it up differently with their own measurements/proportions).

Same with knee+, KL / CL / AL isn't really very clear and if you write them in full it gets clunky. Plus floor-length members hang out there because it's more active than the floor+ thread. Knee+ is nice and inclusive.

Obviously if the other members of those two threads overwhelmingly agree that renaming them would be good, I won't object. But if there isn't the favour for it, I don't see it necessary to rename them for the sake of it.

[lapis_lazuli]

I would definitely prefer to keep the title "Knee-length and beyond". It's already concise and includes Floor and all the possible milestones after that. I like the proposed change for some of the other lengths though, especially Waist Hip Tailbone.

[Bat]

I can't speak for the current members of classic to knee but given there are milestones of FTL and MTL in between, renaming it could get clunky. Plus my own journey was split up into upper thigh / FTL / mid-thigh / lower thigh, if the thread name had specified the between milestones I don't know whether I'd have felt so free to break it up like that (worked out really handy that classic - knee was 12" so each 3" was a quarter of the thigh abyss, but others break it up differently with their own measurements/proportions).

Same with knee+, KL / CL / AL isn't really very clear and if you write them in full it gets clunky. Plus floor-length members hang out there because it's more active than the floor+ thread. Knee+ is nice and inclusive.

Obviously if the other members of those two threads overwhelmingly agree that renaming them would be good, I won't object. But if there isn't the favour for it, I don't see it necessary to rename them for the sake of it.


I would definitely prefer to keep the title "Knee-length and beyond". It's already concise and includes Floor and all the possible milestones after that. I like the proposed change for some of the other lengths though, especially Waist Hip Tailbone.

In that case why was there the uproar of merging floor into into knee and beyond if knee and beyond is concice and inclusive?

If people be are saying waist and hip has to be merged into waist to Tbl but knee and beyond and Floor and beyond should stay separate that doesn't sound entirely fair to me

Having only some threads but not all threads with the inclusive milestones is weird? I dunno it would have been much easier just to change waist to Tbl to hip and TBL then nothing else would need to change and threads wouldn't need to be merged

Maybe I'm just not understanding something I suppose...

[Aerya]

In that case why was there the uproar of merging floor into into knee and beyond if knee and beyond is concice and inclusive?

If people be are saying waist and hip has to be merged into waist to Tbl but knee and beyond and Floor and beyond should stay separate that doesn't sound entirely fair to me

Having only some threads but not all threads with the inclusive milestones is weird? I dunno it would have been much easier just to change waist to Tbl to hip and TBL then nothing else would need to change and threads wouldn't need to be merged

Maybe I'm just not understanding something I suppose...

I mean, I think it's fine. All the thread titles doesn't have to be perfectly systemized - the rest of the forum sure isn't! That's part of the charm of forums like this, IMO. And at those lengths, there aren't that many active members. I can see the value in having a "Floor and beyond" thread as that's like... next level LHC, as well as (I assume) having some very specific requirements, but if we were to restrict the "Knee and beyond" thread, the floor+ people might find themselves with less community. Obviously I'm nowhere near knee+ myself so this is just me thinking out loud, but I don't think it's comparable to waist-to-X like that. :)

[giraff]

Buzz Ear Chin
Chin Collarbone Shoulder
Shoulder Underarm ( seems nicer than armpit xD)
Underarm Midback Abyss
Midback Abyss Waist
Waist Hip Tailbone
Tailbone BCL Classic
Classic Mid Thigh/Fingertip Knee ( or Classic Thigh/Fingertip Knee)
Knee Calf Ankle Floor ( old name knee and beyond)
Floor and Beyond


I like the words spelled out in full but Buttcrack is so ugly so I just made it the abbreviation

Isn't BCL inbetween hip and tailbone length?

So it would actually be waist - hip - buttcrack - tailbone

IMO, the milestones between are implied, but if it makes one or two people happy - why not? :hmm:

As for renaming waist-tbl to hip-tbl Vara La Fey, I think you have to ask directly in the thread, as it would involve "throwing out" a few people from that thread :) If they don't mind, then fine! I personally find it unnecessary, but then again, I don't have hip as goal length.

[Bat]

Isn't BCL inbetween hip and tailbone length?

So it would actually be waist - hip - buttcrack - tailbone

IMO, the milestones between are implied, but if it makes one or two people happy - why not? :hmm:

As for renaming waist-tbl to hip-tbl Vara La Fey, I think you have to ask directly in the thread, as it would involve "throwing out" a few people from that thread :) If they don't mind, then fine! I personally find it unnecessary, but then again, I don't have hip as goal length.

No one wants a thread with Buttcrack in the title so that's the only reason I used the abbreviation wait LOL my bad I put that in the wrong place edits post thanks for pointing that out

[Bat]

This is all in Cheeses hands now!

[vampyyri]

TBH it would make the most sense to split them up like the other threads. WL to HL, HL to BCL, BCL to TBL. We have the "small" incremental successes between the shorter lengths, so why not the mid to long? I don't see why some people are up in arms about it, I feel like that's only fair to give it a split for common body markers, regardless of how close/far they are on your personal anatomy. Like BSL and WL are close on me because I have a short torso, and I just happily moved to one of the WL threads (and stumbled upon that confusion as well between the threads and just kind of picked one).

[lapushka]

What "bugs" me a little is that proposed restructuring is to make sure people post in those threads that have those lengths, rather than what it is now, threads that are all-inclusive. That eats at me. This whole upheaval eats at me, for some reason. It rubs me the wrong way. Why? Why? I still don't know what is wrong with the way things are. Everyone knows where to go, and it's borderless, limitless. What is getting proposed now is almost like police-stating the forum. I don't like it.

[neko_kawaii]

What "bugs" me a little is that proposed restructuring is to make sure people post in those threads that have those lengths, rather than what it is now, threads that are all-inclusive. That eats at me. This whole upheaval eats at me, for some reason. It rubs me the wrong way. Why? Why? I still don't know what is wrong with the way things are. Everyone knows where to go, and it's borderless, limitless. What is getting proposed now is almost like police-stating the forum. I don't like it.

It sounds like you haven’t understood the intent of the proposals.

The main point is that for some lengths people DON’T know where to go. I’m not sure how to restate that to make it clear.

[lapushka]

It sounds like you haven’t understood the intent of the proposals.

The main point is that for some lengths people DON’T know where to go. I’m not sure how to restate that to make it clear.

Really? I mean, no place to go. I have grown from chin twice, from BSL a couple times, from hip also. I always found my way around. I frankly, therefore, do not see what the major huff & puff is? Maybe this is just me, I don't know.

[pisinoe]

The only issue I see is the ""redundancy"" of the waist to hip thread because waist to tailbone is the one that is used the most and the first one is practically abandoned anyway. It would make sense to separate or merge them but honestly it doesn't bother me either way.

[MusicalSpoons]

In that case why was there the uproar of merging floor into into knee and beyond if knee and beyond is concice and inclusive?

If people be are saying waist and hip has to be merged into waist to Tbl but knee and beyond and Floor and beyond should stay separate that doesn't sound entirely fair to me

Having only some threads but not all threads with the inclusive milestones is weird? I dunno it would have been much easier just to change waist to Tbl to hip and TBL then nothing else would need to change and threads wouldn't need to be merged

Maybe I'm just not understanding something I suppose...

I explained why here

Floor+ thread needs to stay, it's super special to be able to "graduate" to that from the knee and beyond thread. Just being able to post there as an 'official' member is an incredible milestone, even if most of the activity is still on the knee and beyond thread :)

And if you're not understanding the objections to splitting up the knee+ thread (and, to an extent, the classic-knee thread) please reread pages 2 and 3 in particular.

FWIW I haven't actually said anything about waist/hip/tbl because I'm not qualified to comment on those lengths. What posters want for those lengths could well be very different from what posters want from classic and/or knee and beyond. That's why it's fair for there to be differences - 'equality' (sameness) is useless if it only meets the needs of some and ignores others. What's fair is what actually meets the varied needs of the membership in general.


What "bugs" me a little is that proposed restructuring is to make sure people post in those threads that have those lengths, rather than what it is now, threads that are all-inclusive. That eats at me. This whole upheaval eats at me, for some reason. It rubs me the wrong way. Why? Why? I still don't know what is wrong with the way things are. Everyone knows where to go, and it's borderless, limitless. What is getting proposed now is almost like police-stating the forum. I don't like it.

I didn't entirely see the issue myself at first (because I've not been at those shorter lengths whilst on LHC, nor do I frequent those threads) but my understanding of it is that nobody is suggesting you're only allowed to post on a thread if your hair is the relevant length.

The point was that there were people who didn't know where to go, because of some overlap. And since that was being brought up, some felt it was a good opportunity to address whether splitting some of the shorter milestone threads would be beneficial as well (and I agree it was a sensible opportunity to raise it).

[vampyyri]

Really? I mean, no place to go. I have grown from chin twice, from BSL a couple times, from hip also. I always found my way around. I frankly, therefore, do not see what the major huff & puff is? Maybe this is just me, I don't know.

Because those of us currently at WL have different threads to "graduate" to that all overlap, and I personally didn't know which one to go into because I'm not even sure what my end goal is, so being in a "to TBL" thread doesn't make sense for me personally (since I'm not trimming this year and don't really have an end goal per say). So breaking up that overlap would make way more sense to avoid confusion so we can go from mile marker to mile marker instead of skipping over three other major milestones.

[Vara La Fey]

It sounds like you haven’t understood the intent of the proposals.
The main point is that for some lengths people DON’T know where to go. I’m not sure how to restate that to make it clear.

It's not failure to understand, it's resistance. The issues and proposals have already been made very clear by several of us repeatedly.

I'm about done with the topic. I now hope the mods will forget this conversation ever existed and just leave the threads alone. Because most counter-proposals will literally exacerbate the original issues.

[lapushka]

It's not failure to understand, it's resistance. The issues and proposals have already been made very clear by several of us repeatedly.

I'm about done with the topic. I now hope the mods will forget this conversation ever existed and just leave the threads alone. Because most counter-proposals will literally exacerbate the original issues.

Nobody has to agree. Opinions can differ.

[MusicalSpoons]

I'm about done with the topic. I now hope the mods will forget this conversation ever existed and just leave the threads alone. Because most counter-proposals will literally exacerbate the original issues.

I actually thought, with yours and Bat's latest proposals, we were close to a solution that would work for everyone.

[Vara La Fey]

Really? I mean, no place to go. I have grown from chin twice, from BSL a couple times, from hip also. I always found my way around. I frankly, therefore, do not see what the major huff & puff is? Maybe this is just me, I don't know.

Neko_kawaii didn't say there was "no place to go", but rather that people don't know _where_ to go. That's because there are too many places.

[Vara La Fey]

As for renaming waist-tbl to hip-tbl Vara La Fey, I think you have to ask directly in the thread, as it would involve "throwing out" a few people from that thread :) If they don't mind, then fine! I personally find it unnecessary, but then again, I don't have hip as goal length.

Don't want to throw anyone out, and no need to anyway. Renaming WL-TBL to HL-TBL (after merging their posts!) would still allow people to post in whichever thread, as we can now. I personally don't post in threads I haven't earned my place in yet (unless I forget where I am), but that's just me.


TBH it would make the most sense to split them up like the other threads. WL to HL, HL to BCL, BCL to TBL. We have the "small" incremental successes between the shorter lengths, so why not the mid to long? I don't see why some people are up in arms about it, I feel like that's only fair to give it a split for common body markers, regardless of how close/far they are on your personal anatomy. Like BSL and WL are close on me because I have a short torso, and I just happily moved to one of the WL threads (and stumbled upon that confusion as well between the threads and just kind of picked one).

Yes, but many people don't like the "buttcrack" term, and since BCL is so close to WL and TBL, I think it's unnecessary to include it, but still acceptable.

When I "stumbled upon that confusion" I cheated and joined both the WL-HL and WL-TBL threads. But that means double-posting questions or whatnot, and I worry that it might be seen as spamming to post the same thing twice. I've asked that once or twice and nobody has answered.


What "bugs" me a little is that proposed restructuring is to make sure people post in those threads that have those lengths, rather than what it is now, threads that are all-inclusive

Length-specific threads by definition are not inclusive of all lengths. But all of them are inclusive of all posters, since we can post wherever we want. And nobody that I know of has suggested "police-stating" them so that we cannot post wherever we want. Certainly I never suggested any such thing, though I personally avoid length threads I haven't earned yet.


The only issue I see is the ""redundancy"" of the waist to hip thread because waist to tailbone is the one that is used the most and the first one is practically abandoned anyway. It would make sense to separate or merge them but honestly it doesn't bother me either way.

That redundancy is a problem. The other problem that's been discussed is that covering too much length in one length-specific thread kind of deprives us of precise peer support, and definitely deprives us of some graduation milestones.


....my understanding of it is that nobody is suggesting you're only allowed to post on a thread if your hair is the relevant length.

Agreed. I don't think anyone has suggested that either.


The point was that there were people who didn't know where to go, because of some overlap. And since that was being brought up, some felt it was a good opportunity to address whether splitting some of the shorter milestone threads would be beneficial as well (and I agree it was a sensible opportunity to raise it).

Yes. Thank you.


Because those of us currently at WL have different threads to "graduate" to that all overlap, and I personally didn't know which one to go into because I'm not even sure what my end goal is, so being in a "to TBL" thread doesn't make sense for me personally (since I'm not trimming this year and don't really have an end goal per say). So breaking up that overlap would make way more sense to avoid confusion so we can go from mile marker to mile marker instead of skipping over three other major milestones.

Yes. Exactly. Thank you.


I actually thought, with yours and Bat's latest proposals, we were close to a solution that would work for everyone.

That's what we've racked our brains to come up with.

[Vara La Fey]

One last time I will try to explain this. If you're going to voice opinions on it, please at least understand what I'm saying, even if you end up disagreeing with it.

We already have a small Waist To Hip thread. We also already have a small Hip To Tailbone thread. AND we have a big Waist To Tailbone thread which covers the ground of both those small ones.

I and others have repeatedly explained why it is confusing to have two "Waist To...." threads, and why having a thread based on the long WL-TBL gap - which crosses over both the commonly used mile markers HL and BCL - works against the whole purpose of length-specific mile-marker peer-support threads. Waist and Tailbone are simply not the same lengths, and can be a long way apart on many people.

Now.

As I've said several times recently: if we take all the conversations from the small Hip To Tailbone thread and put them into the big Waist To Tailbone thread and then delete/archive the now empty Hip To Tailbone thread and give its name to the big Waist To Tailbone thread, that would:
1. Eliminate the redundancy of having two "Waist To...." threads
2. Include the important length ranges of WL-HL and HL-TBL for peer support and graduation milestones.
3. Preserve all the conversations in both the merged threads.
4. End up being only one change in the mid-body length threads that we'd need to get used to: "Waist To Tailbone" is now called "Hip To Tailbone", and repurposed for that range only going forward.
5. Everyone could still post in any thread they want, just as we already do. Nobody has to get kicked out of anywhere.

Here's another way to look at the exact same thing:
We could do the merge the other direction: merge all the conversations from the big Waist To Tailbone thread into the smaller Hip To Tailbone thread without renaming anything - and we could then archive/delete the now empty Waist To Tailbone thread.

That would also do the exact same 5 things I listed above.

[Bat]

I think we've all had good ideas and ideas that haven't worked, so it's up to Chromis and Neko to decide on the best course of action

I definitely think waist to hip and hip to tailbone should be separate threads but if having them merged and names in the title is easier for staff then that's the best option

[C_Bookworm]

I’m a fan of notating the in-between hair markers in the title, and merging together the various waist through TBL overlap threads into one nice big mega thread. It’s such nice energy to have a thread that is jumping.

[Vara La Fey]

I’m a fan of notating the in-between hair markers in the title, and merging together the various waist through TBL overlap threads into one nice big mega thread. It’s such nice energy to have a thread that is jumping.

The in-between hair markers (milestones) are already implied in the current titles. For instance, Shoulder To Armpit automatically includes Collarbone because it's in between the two which are mentioned by name. There's no need to rename any threads to reflect what is already built in. But there is a need to be sure all important milestone ranges (such as waist to hip and hip to tailbone) have their own threads. Merely including in-between markers such as CBL and BCL doesn't do that. It just keeps the old inadequate structure but calls it something else.

When you say "one nice big mega thread", do you mean merging all waist, hip, bcl and tbl threads into the one big Waist To Tailbone thread and then eliminating the Waist To Hip thread and the Hip To Tailbone thread? That would deprive us of specific threads for those marker ranges.

Or would it be acceptable to merge the big Waist To Tailbone thread into the smaller Waist To Hip thread, and eliminate only the name and focus of "waist to tailbone"? This would keep all the existing content, and in the future new LHCers (and LHCers who simply graduate into the Hip range) would naturally get used to the Waist To Hip thread and then the Hip To Tailbone thread.

[Chromis]

I should once again point out that we do not typically delete threads here unless it was a spam thread. We normally only locks threads for good reason. So if someone wishes to post n one of the old threads, they are free to do so. We have no plan to continually "force" people to post to a given length thread. We are happy to merge threads and change titles!

[Aerya]

Considering we seem to not come to an agreement in regards to the waist-to-X threads, I vote to just keep them as they are. I prefer the "waist to TBL" thread myself, but I understand why others might want to discuss more precise lengths.

I also enjoy the notion that whichever threads are active at any given moment is entirely up to us, rather than a strict system. That democratic, organic feeling of the forum boards of yore is one of the reasons why I like LHC. It's a nice little sanctuary in our increasingly algorithm-driven world.

[Chromis]

No upvotes, down votes, likes, etc here! There are add-ons for us to add likes, but we have chosen not to add them. Less drama and more discussion that way.

I guess there is technically a thread ranking feature, but I just went and ranked a thread for funsies and there is no difference at all, so that appears to be some vestigal function we never actually enabled :laugh:

[lapushka]

Hmm, I do apologize if my disagreement seemed "harsh" in any way, not my intent (at all). You guys know me by now, after so many years. :) Which might explain why I tend to like what things are like on the forum and oppose change so much. :lol: But anyway, if titles can make things more clear, I am all for that.

[Bat]

I think the best solution is remove waist to hip out of the resorce list and if the big thread doesn't have the in-betweens then so be it taking the link out without touching anything else is the easiest solution and if people want to revive waist to hip then we revive it

[neko_kawaii]

I know Chromis is busy. I'm putting a really deep dive into this on my to do list. I might have time to look at it after work today but may not get to it until Friday.

[Chromis]

Thanks Neko!

I drank some bathwater today in Bath, UK and tomorrow I will be walking the Wall!

[Lady Stardust]

Oh, Bath is so beautiful! I love it there.

[lapushka]

Bath is gorgeous. I went on a school trip there with my uni. We got to pick either Strasbourg or Bath. I chose Bath. Just because it appealed to me more and it was English. The other French and not my most favorite language. Also this was more of a cultural trip, the other was largely political.

[C_Bookworm]

That sounds amazing! Bath is on my bucket list.

[Vara La Fey]

I think the best solution is remove waist to hip out of the resorce list and if the big thread doesn't have the in-betweens then so be it taking the link out without touching anything else is the easiest solution and if people want to revive waist to hip then we revive it

I will immediately want to revive it, because WL-HL is my length range and it's the length-thread I want to use rather than the overly-spanned W-TBL thread.

[Vara La Fey]

I know Chromis is busy. I'm putting a really deep dive into this on my to do list. I might have time to look at it after work today but may not get to it until Friday.

I appreciate you giving attention to it, but lately I pretty much hope it will be left alone and I wish I'd never started the suggestion thread because I'm afraid things will only be made worse. This is because every single counter-suggestion I've seen involves something silly like eliminating (aka removing from the Resource List?) the more precise WL-HL and HL-TBL threads but keeping the less precise WL-TBL thread, or something silly like the needless and unesthetic re-titling of threads to include every single marker but not really fixing anything.

A few of us originally thought it would be good to remove the redundancy of having two "waist to...." threads while still preserving the reasonable MBL-WL / WL-HL / HL-TBL / TBL-CL thread structure and still preserving all the content. It got way out of hand with too many people not understanding those issues plus refusing to listen to our reasons for wanting to fix them.

Point-oblivious statements like 'we should keep the big thread', 'we can create other graduation incentives' and 'maybe a subforum would help' all make me wish I hadn't raised the issue at all. So I'm just going to remove that overly-broad Waist To Tailbone thread from my Subscriptions list and go back to happy hair growth.

[cookies]

It’s crazy how complicated this whole thing got :lol:
My takeaway is that nothing will please everyone and anything would please at least someone.
With that in mind, my new vote would be for a length threads subforum, where all the current length threads are moved as they are, so they’re easier to find.
Just merge the HL to TBL one in the waist to tailbone one, leave the waist to hip for those whose end goal is hip and let things continue to evolve naturally from there :shrug:

[lapushka]

OP, maybe it matters, maybe it doesn't. But I see you joined us last year. A lot of us have been here for years, even decades (namely me). I have known nothing else for all those years, and have worked my way through these threads beautifully, multiple times, without any hiccups. Maybe it's just... getting used to it? Rather than change things, maybe it is a matter of settling in on the forum?

[Vara La Fey]

Yeah, maybe we should just forget about changes to thread structure. But if the mods want to simply fix the Length-specific Threads --> list (https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/announcement.php?f=9&a=11) <-- to include the following existing threads I've put in bold-italic, it might help those threads get some love.

Buzz to Chin Length
Buzz to Ear: Bat Edition (https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=156033)
Ear To Chin (https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=33635)
Chin to Shoulder Length
Shoulder to APL Length
APL to MBL Length
MBL to Waist Length
Waist to Hip Length
Hip To Buttcrack Length (https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=125504)
Hip to Tailbone Length
Waist to Tailbone Length
Tailbone to Classic Length
Classic to Knee Length
Knee Length and Beyond!
Floor Length and Beyond!
TERMINAL (https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=90499)
The Mini-Milestone Thread (https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=41971)
All Lengths Post Here
Non-Growth Oriented Thread for Shorter Lengths
Length Chart (https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=47703&d=1664088434)
Annual Hair Length Poll (https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=155580)

Of course not all those are specific length "Length-specific Threads", but they seem to merit inclusion.

[GordonMurphella]

It’s crazy how complicated this whole thing got :lol:
My takeaway is that nothing will please everyone and anything would please at least someone.
With that in mind, my new vote would be for a length threads subforum, where all the current length threads are moved as they are, so they’re easier to find.


Stands up and applauds. Great post.

I know I should just back out of here quietly but this in my opinion (and it's just an opinion, I'm not agitating here) is getting to be like the toilet paper over or under argument. And before someone comes and slaps me silly for engaging in a race I have no horse in, I'll wave in royal fashion and ..... slide out.

[GordonMurphella]

OP, maybe it matters, maybe it doesn't. But I see you joined us last year. A lot of us have been here for years, even decades (namely me). I have known nothing else for all those years, and have worked my way through these threads beautifully, multiple times, without any hiccups. Maybe it's just... getting used to it? Rather than change things, maybe it is a matter of settling in on the forum?

Great post my friend.

[Lady Stardust]

Stands up and applauds. Great post.

I know I should just back out of here quietly but this in my opinion (and it's just an opinion, I'm not agitating here) is getting to be like the toilet paper over or under argument. And before someone comes and slaps me silly for engaging in a race I have no horse in, I'll wave in royal fashion and ..... slide out.

Toilet paper over! Surely.

[Ylva]

Toilet paper over! Surely.

Yep, even the original patent shows this to be correct.

[Lady Stardust]

Yep, even the original patent shows this to be correct.

That’s an interesting piece of information to have at your fingertips :) I’ll be sure to quote it if the argument ever arises!

In my very first mathematical modelling lesson we had to estimate the number of sheets on a toilet roll, using only a ruler. We worked in pairs and my partner and I estimated to within 2 sheets of the correct answer. That was 30 years ago, I’m amazed I remember!

[Bat]

Wait the toilet paper thing is a thing? Lmao I don't care as long as it's soft for my butt! I do like the sub forum idea so people can make whatever length threads they want lol but this is going around in circles something will be done we just have to be patient

[MusicalSpoons]

Yep, even the original patent shows this to be correct.

See I've read that, but then I've also read that it wasn't prescriptive and was just the easiest way of showing how it worked in static drawings.

I agree over makes more sense for typical people (with use of both hands and decent grip) but I've been wary of quoting the patent even in fun, facetious debates since I read that rebuttal. Haven't actually looked it up to try to confirm or deny though :lol:

[foreveryours]

Toilet-paper roll US465588A (https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/30/7c/4a/f68bbd4e64a160/US465588.pdf)

Just confirms my own bias :p

[Entangled]

Perhaps if confusion about which thread to join is the issue, we could just include a line in the Important Threads post that says: “Some length-specific threads overlap, as some members prefer to discuss length in more specific terms, while others prefer to discuss hair under a broader umbrella of hair length. Members should feel free to participate in whatever thread they prefer.”

[BunBunn]

That sounds like a great idea to me. I Would love to see everyone’s progress!

[Ylva]

Perhaps if confusion about which thread to join is the issue, we could just include a line in the Important Threads post that says: “Some length-specific threads overlap, as some members prefer to discuss length in more specific terms, while others prefer to discuss hair under a broader umbrella of hair length. Members should feel free to participate in whatever thread they prefer.”

I think this is by far the best option.

[lapushka]

I think this is by far the best option.

Yes that about solves it!

[Bat]

That way someone can make a hip to tailbone thread so people who didn't start from waist can post there

[Ylva]

That way someone can make a hip to tailbone thread so people who didn't start from waist can post there

I don’t personally understand why the starting point matters. I never started at waist as my hair was already at hip when I started growing it out but that doesn’t in any way prevent me from posting to a thread whose length range begins at waist (if I’m within that range myself, naturally).

Having said that, I also have nothing against people making whatever length threads they want. Their popularity will be determined organically anyway.

[Bat]

I don’t personally understand why the starting point matters. I never started at waist as my hair was already at hip when I started growing it out but that doesn’t in any way prevent me from posting to a thread whose length range begins at waist (if I’m within that range myself, naturally).

Having said that, I also have nothing against people making whatever length threads they want. Their popularity will be determined organically anyway.

It's because hip is my next major goal after apl and I don't like the feeling of being 'stuck' between a thread I don't really vibe waist or tailbone for some reason
It just annoys me that it's the only overlap thread in the resorce list OCD and all that double ups and some repeatitions make me angry

[BunBunn]

I think it would be a great idea to bring it back

[purple_omelette]

Late to the party here, but I started off in the "waist to..." no mans land in 2019, and I honestly didn't care too much about the redundancy. It's odd and confusing, but I think it's a function of this forum having grown organically over the years. The threads came first, the structure came later is my understanding :)

That being said, I'm not opposed to something like what entangled suggested above, where newbies can be more clearly directed to the threads that match their interests.

And of course, anyone is welcome to make new threads or give their favourite threads some love any time! I certainly do my fair share of creating new threads that die off, or reviving old threads temporarily. People just tend to migrate to the threads they like, the more chaotic/unstructured the better (if the top 5 or so threads are any indication) - I'm looking at you, "Put your hair photos here 'cos you really want to...." :P

[neko_kawaii]

Argh, the work week was weird and the weekend was busy. This is still on my to do list.

[Vara La Fey]

Argh, the work week was weird and the weekend was busy. This is still on my to do list.

Understandable.

[neko_kawaii]

Sheesh. Life.

I finally had a chance to make a sub-forum, move threads into it, and clearly rename everything. I updated the Index To Important Threads so it now reads:
Length-specific and Milestone Threads
A whole sub-forum! Pick the thread that fits your progress/goal/question.

The arguments for why to merge or why not to merge the overlapping Waist through Tailbone threads had no clear solution.

If I missed any threads that belong in the sub-forum, please point them out and I'll get them moved.

[elvenelk]

I think just rename ‘waist to tailbone’ ->‘hip to tailbone’. And merge the existing hip to tailbone which has only 200 posts. The content will sort its self out over time. Otherwise the change will just cause confusion IMO

Also not sure if I speak for everyone but I think we like ‘milestone to milestone’ as a naming convention. Except ‘knee and beyond’ that’s special one 😄

[Bat]

Sheesh. Life.

I finally had a chance to make a sub-forum, move threads into it, and clearly rename everything. I updated the Index To Important Threads so it now reads:
Length-specific and Milestone Threads
A whole sub-forum! Pick the thread that fits your progress/goal/question.

The arguments for why to merge or why not to merge the overlapping Waist through Tailbone threads had no clear solution.

If I missed any threads that belong in the sub-forum, please point them out and I'll get them moved.

Thank you for your hard work Neko it's much appreciated.

[paulownia]

I can't find the thread " BSL/ Mid-back to waist" in the sub-forum;)

[LongLocke]

I can't find the thread " BSL/ Mid-back to waist" in the sub-forum;)

I think it was accidentally moved into mane. There’s a breadcrumb link right below it currently

[EdG]

I finally had a chance to make a sub-forum, move threads into it, and clearly rename everything. I updated the Index To Important Threads so it now reads:
Length-specific and Milestone Threads
A whole sub-forum! Pick the thread that fits your progress/goal/question.This is a good change. Kudos! :thumbsup:
Ed

[lapushka]

Quick question. Is the limit 25 posts or more applicable to those sub-threads, because I would argue for it as some do share some pictures (showing faces) in there. Just wondering, actually. But IMHO, would be a neat idea.

[MusicalSpoons]

Quick question. Is the limit 25 posts or more applicable to those sub-threads, because I would argue for it as some do share some pictures (showing faces) in there. Just wondering, actually. But IMHO, would be a neat idea.

They were all public in the Mane forum before so I can't see any reason to put new restrictions on it. People who don't want to show themselves/their faces can still link to protected LHC albums. For newbies looking for advice, I think restricting the main length threads would be very unwelcoming and totally against the spirit of the forum.

[neko_kawaii]

They were all public in the Mane forum before so I can't see any reason to put new restrictions on it. People who don't want to show themselves/their faces can still link to protected LHC albums. For newbies looking for advice, I think restricting the main length threads would be very unwelcoming and totally against the spirit of the forum.

Exactly .

[giraff]

Thank you for taking the time to do that, neko_kawaii :heartbeat Looking good!

[Bat]

Seems I was wrong disregard post

[Bat]

Oh missing threads are major mile stone thread
Seasonal length thread

[purple_omelette]

Thanks neko for all the work! Looks great :)

[lapushka]

It's neat to have them all in one place, but I always navigate the forum through the search for new posts button, so I never got an issue, and if there's something I want, I just search for it. So for me, it stays about the same, I'm guessing. :shrug: Newbies OTOH, priceless.

[pisinoe]

I find it quite inconvenient because I mostly use the forum on mobile but oh well, I guess it is what it is. Hope it's easier for others then.

[vampyyri]

I appreciate them being in one category tbh, because otherwise you have to dig to find some of the not as active threads.

I'm also one of those super organized people where everything has its place, so I like sub-forums for the organization aspect. I almost never use the search function though, I don't like that it's not secure. :shrug:

[Lady Stardust]

I find it quite inconvenient because I mostly use the forum on mobile but oh well, I guess it is what it is. Hope it's easier for others then.

I usually either subscribe to a thread or set it to my favourites (on my phone) so that I can find it easily. That might help?

[rosenester]

I usually either subscribe to a thread or set it to my favourites (on my phone) so that I can find it easily. That might help?

This is how I navigate on mobile as well.

[neko_kawaii]

Also a thread subscriber. But for inactive threads that have become buried the best way to find things is to use advanced search - not the search box (that is Google and can only index the public parts of the forum) but the little "advanced search" text link. If I can remember a word in the title I change the default settings from "search entire post" to "search titles only". More search tips in this thread. (https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=114999)

[neko_kawaii]

Oh missing threads are major mile stone thread
Seasonal length thread

Do you mean SEASONAL GROWTH PROJECT (https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=136935)