Alkanet root infusion for red tones?

[SeaPhoenix]

I stumbled across this recipe in a book today, and am curious to know if anyone's heard of it, or tried it before.

It calls for:
1 tablespoon of alkanet root
1 cup water

1) boil the water
2) place alkanet root in a glass jar and pour boiling water over it
3) Cover and steep for 10 minutes
4) strain the root out
5) pour over shampooed and rinsed hair, catch the mix as it goes through hair, and repeat the pouring of it about 10 times. Let hair sit for 5 minutes, followed by a cool water rinse.

I forgot where, but I've read somewhere on here that alkanet root actually dyes more of a purple color than red? Can anyone who has experience with this chime in on the dye properties of the root, as well as the likelihood that this recipe would render any noticeable color enhancement? :confused:


The book also has a recipe using alkanet root as a nail color:

1/2 tsp alkanet root
3 tbs olive oil
1/4 tsp beeswax

says to combine the root and oil in a double boiler (but doesn't say for how long, or what to look for to know when its done)
then to strain the root out, pouring the oil back in the double boiler, and to add the beeswax to it, and mix till it melts, then add a few drops of vitamin E if desire.
To use: paint on the nails with a brush, and once the oil dries, you can repeat the application.
The first app should yield a rose blush color, and as its layered on, it says the color will look deeper and deeper red.


I currently have in my stash some alkanet root powder - so not sure how to go about altering the recipe to account for it being powder, and not roots chunks...
I also have some annatto seeds that I heard can yield an orange color.. but not sure how to go about preparing it yet.

[rhosyn_du]

I've always been under the impression that the dye in alkanet is oil-soluble only, not water soluble, but I'm going entirely on word of mouth for that, so I could be wrong.

As far as the nail application goes, that should work to give a pinkish/burgundy cast. I use alkanet in lip balm for the same sort of effect. As for how long to cook the alkanet, that will depend on how strong you want the color to be, but probably in the 5-10 minute range.

[SeaPhoenix]

Thanks!
I probably won't use this on hair - since I would want more copper-red tones, not pink/red/burgundy.. but, I'll definitely be trying the nail recipe :-)

[ktani]

There are some safety concerns with alkanet. It contains the same alkaloids as comfrey, which can be absorbed through broken or abraded skin and are cumulatively carcinogenic.
http://www.healthline.com/natstandardcontent/alkanna

[mellie]

I have used alkanet for coloring lip balms (before I knew the safety concerns). When I used it, I did use oil to get the dye to release. It makes a beautiful red dye in oil. Like a crimson red, I guess.

[ktani]

The Comfrey thread
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=9944

The research
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=222191&postcount=6

[ktani]

In another thread, someone wrote that alkanet was banned as a dye. I got curious, did not search for the thread and just looked it up. I did not know what I would find but the information is under alkanna. Searches under different names for alkanet root turned up very little (references to long term use and cancer, but no details).

[mellie]

I did find that Alkanet is still legal as a food coloring in Canada, although not in the US.

Sorry I am rushing off to work otherwise I would re-find those links and post them!

[ktani]

It may be a processing thing with the food colour, extracting the pigment only. I have not looked into it.

[SeaPhoenix]

Yikes! Thanks for the safety warnings, ktani! As always, you're a wealth of very useful scientific information!
I'm irked with this book I have for not warning the readers at all! It was published in 1998, in the U.S.A.... but then, it also has hair coloring recipes that call for henna, brown henna, and black henna, without actually detailing accurate info on henna. *sigh*
I've yet to find a book published, that can be found in a regular book store, that has anything close to accurate info on henna. I'm amazed that none of the ladies or men on this forum have compiled a book for publication on natural herbs for coloring! I would think there's a market for one - considering all the misinformation in print.

Ok, so ix-nay on the alkanet root powder option. I definitely don't want exposure to any more carcinogenic things than I already have (ie, pollution in the air, etc etc)

I'll have to see if I can get my hands on some hibiscus tea... That also seems to be a red enhancing herb, if I remember correctly...

[mellie]

Yes, hibiscus is red-enhancing. Although be aware that with some people's pH it can be more purple than red!

[mellie]

Here is the link showing alkanet is approved for food coloring in Canada:

http://www.inspection.gc.ca/english/fssa/labeti/decisions/coloure.shtml

[SeaPhoenix]

Mellie - thanks for the tip on hibiscus...ok... might be nixing that one as well - don't want the purple! LOL... at this rate, I may just be sticking with my own color, with the only color enhancements might be coming from the moreno cafe shampoo bar from CV if I decide to order it LOL :-)

[mellie]

Here's a warning I found on Pyrrolizidine Alkaloids (which includes Comfrey, as Ktani mentioned) - it's a good listing of the other herbs which are also associated.

http://http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:dE45OASpN8cJ:www.toxicology.org/isot/RC/ncac/symposia_files/Fall2004Dentali.pps+alkanet+toxicity&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=44&gl=us (http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:dE45OASpN8cJ:www.toxicology.org/isot/RC/ncac/symposia_files/Fall2004Dentali.pps+alkanet+toxicity&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=44&gl=us)

American Herbal Products Association


13


AHPA’s Position
on Pyrrolizidine Alkaloids


Adopted July 1996


AHPA recommends that all products with botanical ingredients which contain toxic pyrrolizidine alkaloids1 bear the following cautionary statement on the label:


For external use only. Do not apply to broken or abraded skin. Do not use when nursing.


1) Including but not limited to: Alkanna tinctoria (alkanet); Anchusa officinalis (bugloss); Borago officinalis* (borage); Crotalaria spp., Cynoglossum spp., Erechtites hieraciifolia, Eupatorium cannabinum (hemp agrimony); Eupatorium purpureum (Joe Pye), Heliotropium spp., Lithospermum officinale (European gromwell); Packera candidissima, Petasites spp. (e.g., Butterbur); Pulmonaria spp. (e.g., lungwort); Senecio jacobaea (European ragwort); Senecio vulgaris (groundsel herb); Symphytum spp. (comfrey); and Tussilago farfara (coltsfoot).

* Borage seed oil is specifically exempt from the above label recommendation.

[ktani]

mellie

That is is great but it is an old listing. The newer ones do not recommend them to be used at all in some cases. See the link in my earlier post.

"Children, the elderly, and pregnant or breastfeeding women should not use comfrey products -- either orally or topically -- under any circumstances."
http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/comfrey-000234.htm

[mellie]

OK!

Here's the link that shows Alkanet is no longer approved as a food color in the US:

http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/opa-appc.html

Use of the following color additives is no longer authorized:

Alkanet (Alkane)
Calcium carbonate - Allowed in drugs
Carbon black
Charcoal - NF XI
Cudbear
Ferric chloride
Ferrous sulfate
Logwood, chips & extract - Logwood extract is still permitted in sutures
Safflower (American saffron)

[ktani]

With comfrey, I watched as the warnings went from topical use only over the years, to qualifications, to the one I just reposted.

I have been fascinated with the progression.

[mellie]

SeaPhoenix, what about henna?

[SeaPhoenix]

hehehe - about the henna.
I'm on the fence. I used it for about 4 years. My hair was in great condition until I got it in my head to try lightening the henna. Bit of damage occurred, I stopped, went back to just henna'ing and accepting the color as it was - and sometimes mixing it with indigo and other herbs. Then tried lightening it again, then gave up, then spent around a year trying to get rid of it... mostly because it had gotten too purpley for me... and partly because I hadn't seen my real hair color in a very long time, and wanted to know if I could go natural and be happy. So I went on a chopping spree after I failed to get any henna lightened from my hair. I figured this would remove the temptation to go back to henna. I clearly underestimated the power of henna temptation though, as I'm still debating whether or not to go back to it lol.
My last chop was in September... my hair is layered, with the longest layers at the neck, but most of the hair about ear length, and some to chin... see photo album/profile pict...

So - before I take that henna plunge again, I want to be very very very very sure.
I have played around with some very diluted cassia/henna glosses using old weak henna...(both my 5-6 yr old abused stash of kimia henna powder, as well as a mix of marigold and strawberry henna from rainbow henna) it did deepen my color a little, make it more golden - and with a touch of bronze color in the sun... which is nice... but, I want a little bit more dramatic copper tones - but am afraid to do more glosses till this one has a month or so to fade down. Not risking any kind of build up anymore. :-)
I really do love the shine and condition of henna... and some of the time I think the henna looked good with my skin tone - just not when it pushed to purples and burgundy colors. I do better with warm copper tones than cool red tones, I think. My skin tone is a bit odd... sometimes I think it has peach undertones, sometimes gold... not to be confused with pink or yellow undertones... there's definitely a difference... color wise, I look best in dark rust reds, browns, some shades of muted orange, some shades of green and muted yellows... peach colors work, but keep coral and pink-pink away as well as most other pastel and bright colors... So - I'm definitely more warm toned I think...

[ktani]

Yikes! Thanks for the safety warnings, ktani! As always, you're a wealth of very useful scientific information!
I'm irked with this book I have for not warning the readers at all! It was published in 1998, in the U.S.A.... but then, it also has hair coloring recipes that call for henna, brown henna, and black henna, without actually detailing accurate info on henna. *sigh*
I've yet to find a book published, that can be found in a regular book store, that has anything close to accurate info on henna. I'm amazed that none of the ladies or men on this forum have compiled a book for publication on natural herbs for coloring! I would think there's a market for one - considering all the misinformation in print.

Ok, so ix-nay on the alkanet root powder option. I definitely don't want exposure to any more carcinogenic things than I already have (ie, pollution in the air, etc etc)

I'll have to see if I can get my hands on some hibiscus tea... That also seems to be a red enhancing herb, if I remember correctly...

I missed this post, sorry. You are most welcome and thank you.

Books on herbs and plants in many cases are out of date by the time they go to print, IMO. The comfrey warnings for example, have changed rapidly over the last few years. Also, what may be harmless for a brief perid of time or in a very small amount, does not apply to large amounts used often, in some cases with some plants.

I will not use anything with those alkaloids in them, period. That is just me.

[mellie]

Well I think if you want red, the best natural way to go would be henna. I'll keep brainstorming if I can think of anything else that isn't deathly toxic, haha!!

[SeaPhoenix]

LOL - I suspect you're right on the henna route... But ah well.. was worth a shot to investigate.
I may decide to go back fully to henna - just not right away. I really need to be positive about it, because I'm not chopping my hair anymore lol. :-)

[mellie]

I wonder if you did a cassia with hibiscus in it, if that might give you some red?

Hibiscus gave me red after a honey treatment:

Before:

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/picture.php?albumid=423&pictureid=9743

After honey lightening immediately followed with hibiscus rinse:

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/picture.php?albumid=423&pictureid=9751

Definitely red!

[SeaPhoenix]

So - would hibiscus lean more towards red the more acidic, or less acidic the liquid is?

As an example:
If I were to steep some hibiscus, and then add citric acid to it to use as a rinse for shampoo bars (but let the rinse sit in my hair, covered with a cap for 30 minutes or so), would this likely lean more purple or red in your opinion?

[eaglefeather71]

So - would hibiscus lean more towards red the more acidic, or less acidic the liquid is?

As an example:
If I were to steep some hibiscus, and then add citric acid to it to use as a rinse for shampoo bars (but let the rinse sit in my hair, covered with a cap for 30 minutes or so), would this likely lean more purple or red in your opinion?
It's my experience that Hibiscus rinses out so it is beautiful ...while it lasts

[mellie]

Well, I don't know about the acid or not. But the honey lightening right before caused it to be red. When I tried hibiscus without the honey lightening, it was definitely more purple.

Maybe if you add honey to the hibiscus it will go red?

[SeaPhoenix]

will have to find a way to experiment with that! :-) Might have to get my paws on some mohair samples...

[mellie]

I think it would be better to try inconspicuous parts of your real hair. Mohair seems to give some different results than real hair (I'm thinking of the sample of katam on the hennaforhair.com site - it shows plain katam as a mousy brown color, when on hair it is actually patchy gray/green - very different!).

[SeaPhoenix]

Sadly - as short as my layers are, there really is no inconspicuous section of hair to test on lol.. it's all visible, from the top layer to the bottom.
:-)
There's another reason longer hair is awesome.. you can always section a chunk from the bottom or mid layer of hair to sample on... not so much with super short layers :-)

[mellie]

I do a little section of hair at my scalp that is hidden under other hair, could you do that?